Instagram


Islamic Relief UK

Cricket Scotland

Sohail Speaks Yasir's Blog Fazeer's Focus

User Tag List

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 161 to 240 of 276
  1. #161
    Debut
    Aug 2010
    Venue
    Macclesfield
    Runs
    9,830
    Mentioned
    74 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by the Great Khan View Post
    Im confused. When IK said lets give peace a chance he was lambasted as Taliban khan and terrorist apologist. Now we have a whole majma of "taliban khans" allegedly shouting for their rights (rights that were taken away from them by their own brethren in Swat and other areas like Miranshah") and we should listen to their screams and apologise for fighting their terrorist brothers??

    its quite transparent that this PTM nonsense is just another phase in the ongoing war against Pakistan. An attempt to try and Syria-ise the whole situation. Study after study in the west has concluded that the only thing holding the country together is a disciplined multi denominational, multi ethnic armed force. This is another insidious attempt to try and break through that iron discipline by appealing to the pasthtuns. We have seen this before in the 50's and 70's.

    Make no mistake Syria is another experiment in state destruction. The lessons learnt there will be applied elsewhere.

    We will not break and we will not succumb to this new agitation.

    What’s better for the country?
    Approach 1)To analyze the problems the people of FATA face, accepting that the problems exist and solving them in a good faith.
    Approach 2)Rejecting their concerns by pretending that they are trying to break the country, declaring them foreigners and whatnot.

    The only thing Pakistan needs to learn from Syria is that never apply iron discipline on people making genuine demands. Otherwise the problems will remain, your own people turn against you and weaken you from within. Then foreign countries get to apply their version of iron discipline and they won’t differentiate between patriots and traitors. Unfortunately majority of the people in this thread are more interested in Manzoor Pashteen and other individuals, rather than the actual demands of the people.

  2. #162
    Debut
    Feb 2005
    Venue
    Cybertron, Guest of Optimus Prime
    Runs
    21,767
    Mentioned
    94 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Saeed View Post
    What’s better for the country?
    Approach 1)To analyze the problems the people of FATA face, accepting that the problems exist and solving them in a good faith.
    Approach 2)Rejecting their concerns by pretending that they are trying to break the country, declaring them foreigners and whatnot.

    The only thing Pakistan needs to learn from Syria is that never apply iron discipline on people making genuine demands. Otherwise the problems will remain, your own people turn against you and weaken you from within. Then foreign countries get to apply their version of iron discipline and they won’t differentiate between patriots and traitors. Unfortunately majority of the people in this thread are more interested in Manzoor Pashteen and other individuals, rather than the actual demands of the people.
    Unfortunately FATA will just have to get in line..yes there most pressing concerns should be addressed and some are being addressed but we have an incompetent government in charge that is nearing the end of its tenure. These demands are timed suspiciously and are being used to hurt the state and its unity. The very name this pastheen character has used for his demo's is trolling enough. Where were there demonstrations when the TTP were murdering everyone? where was this pastheen character then? We just fought a war and the state needs time to recover. The last thing we want is another rebellion on our hands.

    coming onto Syria, simply responding with a heavy hand is not event enough to cause a massive civil war. That whole war was orchestrated and managed from abroad.

  3. #163
    Debut
    Sep 2010
    Runs
    2,952
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Ambush at Pak-Afghan border leaves 5 FC personnel martyred
    Jawed HussainApril 16, 2018

    At least five Frontier Corps (FC) personnel deployed at the Pak-Afghan border were reported martyred while 12 others were injured in an attack from across the border that started a day earlier, DawnNewsTV reported on Monday.

    The attack, which was carried out from the Khost province of Afghanistan, targeted a border post in Laka Tika area of Lower Kurram Agency, officials of the political administration in Kurram Agency said.

    According to MNA Sajid Toori, the skirmishes, which spanned more than 24 hours, also left at least 10 assailants dead and several injured. The bodies of the slain FC troops were recovered after officials from both sides held dialogues, of which MNA Toori and several others were a part of.

    The political administration, however, has not yet confirmed the recovery of bodies.

    Armed tribesmen arriving to Pak-Afghan border to join security personnel. Photo provided by author
    Armed tribesmen arriving to Pak-Afghan border to join security personnel. Photo provided by author
    According to government officials, scores of armed tribesmen from the Bangash and other tribes, at the request of tribal elders, had rushed to the border to support under-fire Pakistani security personnel.

    Following extensive retaliatory firing, the security personnel and tribesmen had managed to repel the attackers.

    On Sunday, Inter-Services Public Relations, the Army's media wing, said FC troops were fired upon from Afghanistan while they were busy in "routine surveillance along the Pak-Afghan border for plugging of gaps and making necessary preparations for starting fencing in that area."

    "Pakistani troops are exercising maximum restraint so as to avoid any Afghan civilian casualties," the statement had said, adding: "military engagement is underway to defuse [the] situation."

    An investigation into the firing incident has been initiated.

    Kurram is one of the most sensitive tribal areas as it borders three Afghan provinces and at one point was one of the key routes for militant movement across the border.

    Pakistan began fencing the Pak-Afghan border last year to prevent terrorists from crossing into the country from Afghanistan an initiative strongly opposed by the government in Kabul.

    The two countries accuse each other of harbouring their militant enemies a charge both deny.

  4. #164
    Debut
    Sep 2010
    Runs
    2,952
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    According to ana the fight was against the Zazi tribe

    And they captured number of troops killed them and released one Pakhtun

    According to them 17 Pakistani soldiers were killed

    And zazi tribe asked for ana help to counter Pakistan shelling


    Can someone order some bangles for our high brass and leaders

  5. #165
    Debut
    Sep 2010
    Runs
    2,952
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The worst thing is our pakistan army had to call local Shia tribes like turi bangash to come to the border and repel the attack against hostile Sunni tribes in kurram and across the border

  6. #166
    Debut
    Aug 2010
    Venue
    Sheffield
    Runs
    27,278
    Mentioned
    850 Post(s)
    Tagged
    12 Thread(s)
    Tired of these binary arguments.

    Its simple, you can be pro military action and eternally grateful for army sacrifices but anti detaining innocents without due process and trial.

  7. #167
    Debut
    Jan 2017
    Runs
    197
    Mentioned
    29 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    Tired of these binary arguments.

    Its simple, you can be pro military action and eternally grateful for army sacrifices but anti detaining innocents without due process and trial.
    Is it binding on every Pakistani to be grateful to Army? Is it a pre requisite to become patriotic? Army is an institution after all and there are hundreds other institutions which are criticized night and day? Why this special treatment to Army then? You cannot criticize Army on mainatream news because you and your channel will pay for that officially and unofficially. You cannot criticize it on social media because then you'll be picked up one day and be part of a long list of missing persons. Why is this attitude? What's so sacred about this one institution?

  8. #168
    Debut
    Nov 2011
    Runs
    2,614
    Mentioned
    65 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Pakistan establishment is pushing Pakistan towards civil war

    How the establishment is pushing Pakistan towards another civil war

    There has been a complete blackout of the Pakhtun Tahaffuz Movement (PTM) in the Pakistani media. The PTM, one of the largest movements in the countrys history, is a culmination of the efforts of ordinary people as opposed to a mass demonstration organized by any political party. Young activist, Manzoor Pashteen, is the latest victim of engineered social media campaigns, accusing him of being a traitor and blasphemer. In fact, social media accounts, of Internet bots and those masquerading as journalists, have consistently strived to discredit and slander the PTM by trying to link it to Indian intelligence agencies (an age-old tactic of quelling dissent in the land of the

    Full article:

    https://dailytimes.com.pk/228997/how...her-civil-war/

  9. #169
    Debut
    Feb 2016
    Runs
    5,098
    Mentioned
    146 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    BTw how did you come up with some of things like this.
    I thought you should be more concerned what is being done on the other side of the border and hatred being spread.
    Manzoor pashtin demands are constitutional and no afghani should be happy with this that he is going for lar and bar afghan merger.
    He wants justice and it is not that big deal.Hope authorities understand it.

  10. #170
    Debut
    Oct 2016
    Runs
    1,612
    Mentioned
    40 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    After approval from Senate today President signed bill extending Supreme Court, Peshawer High Court jurisdiction to FATA

    Great news! step by step things will get better there!

    https://www.geo.tv/latest/191548-pre...o-tribal-areas

  11. #171
    Debut
    Feb 2018
    Runs
    467
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/17/w...-military.html

    It has also led to the feeling that many of the country’s Pashtun population centers have been under functional occupation by the security forces. Using an alternative system of military counterterrorism courts along with an extensive network of covert jails, security and intelligence officers wield life or death power — often instantly — over the Pakistani region known as the Federally Administered Tribal Areas, a leftover from the British colonial system.
    News blackouts. Enforced disappearances. Officers wielding instant life or death powers. Functional Occupation.

    Are we talking about Maqbooza Kashmir? No, this is apparently all happening in Pakistan.

    Does this mean that the Pakistan army are evil occupiers? This is what happens when the State is provoked into responding with violence against organized violence.

  12. #172
    Debut
    Feb 2018
    Runs
    467
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by AFG_Brit View Post
    How the establishment is pushing Pakistan towards another civil war

    There has been a complete blackout of the Pakhtun Tahaffuz Movement (PTM) in the Pakistani media. The PTM, one of the largest movements in the country’s history, is a culmination of the efforts of ordinary people as opposed to a mass demonstration organized by any political party. Young activist, Manzoor Pashteen, is the latest victim of engineered social media campaigns, accusing him of being a ‘traitor’ and ‘blasphemer’. In fact, social media accounts, of Internet bots and those masquerading as journalists, have consistently strived to discredit and slander the PTM by trying to link it to Indian intelligence agencies (an age-old tactic of quelling dissent in the land of the

    Full article:

    https://dailytimes.com.pk/228997/how...her-civil-war/
    Question is, whether the Pakhtoons will give in under the pressure being exerted by the Military? Or will they be able to sustain their efforts to achieve the changes that they arguably do deserve?

  13. #173
    Debut
    Feb 2018
    Runs
    467
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by AFG_Brit View Post
    How the establishment is pushing Pakistan towards another civil war

    There has been a complete blackout of the Pakhtun Tahaffuz Movement (PTM) in the Pakistani media. The PTM, one of the largest movements in the country’s history, is a culmination of the efforts of ordinary people as opposed to a mass demonstration organized by any political party. Young activist, Manzoor Pashteen, is the latest victim of engineered social media campaigns, accusing him of being a ‘traitor’ and ‘blasphemer’. In fact, social media accounts, of Internet bots and those masquerading as journalists, have consistently strived to discredit and slander the PTM by trying to link it to Indian intelligence agencies (an age-old tactic of quelling dissent in the land of the

    Full article:

    https://dailytimes.com.pk/228997/how...her-civil-war/
    Damn, that's a powerful article. Who is this writer? Is she going to be safe in Pakistan after this?

  14. #174
    Debut
    Mar 2016
    Runs
    973
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by AFG_Brit View Post
    How the establishment is pushing Pakistan towards another civil war

    There has been a complete blackout of the Pakhtun Tahaffuz Movement (PTM) in the Pakistani media. The PTM, one of the largest movements in the country’s history, is a culmination of the efforts of ordinary people as opposed to a mass demonstration organized by any political party. Young activist, Manzoor Pashteen, is the latest victim of engineered social media campaigns, accusing him of being a ‘traitor’ and ‘blasphemer’. In fact, social media accounts, of Internet bots and those masquerading as journalists, have consistently strived to discredit and slander the PTM by trying to link it to Indian intelligence agencies (an age-old tactic of quelling dissent in the land of the

    Full article:

    https://dailytimes.com.pk/228997/how...her-civil-war/
    " The army in Pakistan has numerous business interests, including in fertilizer, cement, property development, banking, dairy, poultry and the list goes on"

    really.. WTH? why does the military has business interest in all those areas.. man they do own the country.. when people say Pakistan army has a country, they are not joking.. they do have the whole country

  15. #175
    Debut
    Feb 2018
    Runs
    467
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Gubol123 View Post
    " The army in Pakistan has numerous business interests, including in fertilizer, cement, property development, banking, dairy, poultry and the list goes on"

    really.. WTH? why does the military has business interest in all those areas.. man they do own the country.. when people say Pakistan army has a country, they are not joking.. they do have the whole country
    Pak Army used the Chinese People's Liberation Army as a model. This sort of business involvement allows the government to fudge the real amounts that is allocated for military spending from the budget. Even in China, now Xi Jinping is reforming the army and forcing it to get out of business and stay within the scope of army. Doesn't look like Pakistan will follow suit any time soon.

  16. #176
    Debut
    Mar 2016
    Runs
    973
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by OoparCut View Post
    Pak Army used the Chinese People's Liberation Army as a model. This sort of business involvement allows the government to fudge the real amounts that is allocated for military spending from the budget. Even in China, now Xi Jinping is reforming the army and forcing it to get out of business and stay within the scope of army. Doesn't look like Pakistan will follow suit any time soon.
    yeah, i know, but still having interests in those industries listed there is just too much.. Already officially military takes up a large portion(20+% ?) of the federal budget and if they are involved so many industries surely they are minting money.. That is why they don't want to let go their strong hold.. are citizens really that dumb? most PPers here are well educated and surprising to see them support such an organization. Pakistanies have been sold the delusion that they are some kind of warriors and that PakMil is taking that tradition forward.

  17. #177
    Debut
    Feb 2016
    Runs
    5,098
    Mentioned
    146 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Gubol123 View Post
    yeah, i know, but still having interests in those industries listed there is just too much.. Already officially military takes up a large portion(20+% ?) of the federal budget and if they are involved so many industries surely they are minting money.. That is why they don't want to let go their strong hold.. are citizens really that dumb? most PPers here are well educated and surprising to see them support such an organization. Pakistanies have been sold the delusion that they are some kind of warriors and that PakMil is taking that tradition forward.
    EVeryone knows it but you would have seen the response tot he thread despite knowing things.
    we are going nowhere unfortunately.

  18. #178
    Debut
    Mar 2016
    Runs
    973
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by DRsohail View Post
    EVeryone knows it but you would have seen the response tot he thread despite knowing things.
    we are going nowhere unfortunately.
    what is surprising is that most of the Pakistanies i have met (i will mostly meet well read and successful people due to the profession I am in) are intelligent and know what is right and what is wrong in everything except when it comes to PakMil.. Whatever it is, you have to give credit where it is due. PakMil needs to be commended for the kind of psychological hold they have on their countrymen. Unfortunately until it is broken Pak will not go anywhere.

    This is one area where I feel India might have done poorly in its foreign affairs. We should always provide as much support as possible to the civilian govt and know how to shield them in our policies. Our anger should be against the Pak deep state, PakMil and not against the elected govt and the common citizen. Nawaz, with all his failings, was quite honest in his attempt to improve ties with India. I think Modi also had the same opinion and approach. We knew an attack was coming as soon the steps were being taken. It came and alas, we let the opportunity go.

    I am saying this as in Indian that I would like to see Pak progress well, as India will know how to deal with progressive and prosperous Pakistan. India will not know how to deal with military/china dominated Pak and will always be in reactionary mode.. It is in India's interest to prop up civilian govt in pak with its foreign policy, that is whatever little it can do..

  19. #179
    Debut
    Feb 2018
    Runs
    467
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Gubol123 View Post
    yeah, i know, but still having interests in those industries listed there is just too much.. Already officially military takes up a large portion(20+% ?) of the federal budget and if they are involved so many industries surely they are minting money.. That is why they don't want to let go their strong hold.. are citizens really that dumb? most PPers here are well educated and surprising to see them support such an organization. Pakistanies have been sold the delusion that they are some kind of warriors and that PakMil is taking that tradition forward.
    You can fool a lot of people with the tribal patriotism, especially by waving the flag of external "enemies".

  20. #180
    Debut
    Mar 2016
    Runs
    973
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by OoparCut View Post
    You can fool a lot of people with the tribal patriotism, especially by waving the flag of external "enemies".
    Yeah, that is there.. But people are not fools... if you see in India, even people from the so called backward states like UP, Bihar, know exactly which side of their bread is buttered and vote accordingly. There will come a time when PakMil cannot go on doing it.. They are doing everything to stop that day from every arriving

  21. #181
    Debut
    Feb 2018
    Runs
    467
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Gubol123 View Post
    Yeah, that is there.. But people are not fools... if you see in India, even people from the so called backward states like UP, Bihar, know exactly which side of their bread is buttered and vote accordingly. There will come a time when PakMil cannot go on doing it.. They are doing everything to stop that day from every arriving
    Why do you think that there has only been one peaceful transition of government in Pakistan in 70 years?

  22. #182
    Debut
    Sep 2011
    Venue
    Houston, TX
    Runs
    1,483
    Mentioned
    51 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Gubol123 View Post
    what is surprising is that most of the Pakistanies i have met (i will mostly meet well read and successful people due to the profession I am in) are intelligent and know what is right and what is wrong in everything except when it comes to PakMil.. Whatever it is, you have to give credit where it is due. PakMil needs to be commended for the kind of psychological hold they have on their countrymen. Unfortunately until it is broken Pak will not go anywhere.

    This is one area where I feel India might have done poorly in its foreign affairs. We should always provide as much support as possible to the civilian govt and know how to shield them in our policies. Our anger should be against the Pak deep state, PakMil and not against the elected govt and the common citizen. Nawaz, with all his failings, was quite honest in his attempt to improve ties with India. I think Modi also had the same opinion and approach. We knew an attack was coming as soon the steps were being taken. It came and alas, we let the opportunity go.

    I am saying this as in Indian that I would like to see Pak progress well, as India will know how to deal with progressive and prosperous Pakistan. India will not know how to deal with military/china dominated Pak and will always be in reactionary mode.. It is in India's interest to prop up civilian govt in pak with its foreign policy, that is whatever little it can do..
    Textbook definition of Goebbels propaganda: We are drilled in the lies about great heroics of our fauj from kindergarten onwards.

    Then they have tight control on media (print and electronic) to ensure repeated glorification...they are above criticism, holy cows, unaccountable.

    Plus iron-hand on any voice of dissent. Even if you hold a difference of opinion, you won't voice it aloud if you love yourself or your family.

    The result of all this is a society where the opinion of an average person is not too different from that of Zaid Hamid. He isn't an aberration, but rather a 'gold standard' that we are being molded into very successfully.
    Last edited by LegendInzi; 17th April 2018 at 20:08.

  23. #183
    Debut
    Nov 2015
    Runs
    478
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Gubol123 View Post
    what is surprising is that most of the Pakistanies i have met (i will mostly meet well read and successful people due to the profession I am in) are intelligent and know what is right and what is wrong in everything except when it comes to PakMil.. Whatever it is, you have to give credit where it is due. PakMil needs to be commended for the kind of psychological hold they have on their countrymen. Unfortunately until it is broken Pak will not go anywhere.

    This is one area where I feel India might have done poorly in its foreign affairs. We should always provide as much support as possible to the civilian govt and know how to shield them in our policies. Our anger should be against the Pak deep state, PakMil and not against the elected govt and the common citizen. Nawaz, with all his failings, was quite honest in his attempt to improve ties with India. I think Modi also had the same opinion and approach. We knew an attack was coming as soon the steps were being taken. It came and alas, we let the opportunity go.

    I am saying this as in Indian that I would like to see Pak progress well, as India will know how to deal with progressive and prosperous Pakistan. India will not know how to deal with military/china dominated Pak and will always be in reactionary mode.. It is in India's interest to prop up civilian govt in pak with its foreign policy, that is whatever little it can do..
    We will be gratefull to you if take to whole corrupt shareef family to India if like him so much Nawaaz Shareef is a indian stooge anyway so he will fit in nicely deal?

  24. #184
    Debut
    Nov 2015
    Runs
    478
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    How is the deal guys @KingKhanWC @Syed1 @Pakpak @Cpt. Rishwat?

  25. #185
    Debut
    Mar 2016
    Runs
    973
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by pakistan cricket fan View Post
    We will be gratefull to you if take to whole corrupt shareef family to India if like him so much Nawaaz Shareef is a indian stooge anyway so he will fit in nicely deal?
    We have our own corrupt leaders thank you. Corrupt and all, politicians are a very important part of our setup. It is not just in India or subcontinent that the leaders are corrupt. Even in developed countries like Japan, Korea, Italy, Greece, America etc and developing nations like south Africa, Brazil etc there are corrupt leaders. Not only in democracy but the corrupt leaders are there in communist countries and monarchies. But only setup where these leaders can be held accountable somewhat is in democracy. So if the corruption comes bundled with democracy then I'll take it everytime knowing that it comes bundled with every sort of government anyway. At least you can hope to vote them out. What will you do with the corrupt leaders who also hold a gun.

  26. #186
    Debut
    Mar 2016
    Runs
    973
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by LegendInzi View Post
    Textbook definition of Goebbels propaganda: We are drilled in the lies about great heroics of our fauj from kindergarten onwards.

    Then they have tight control on media (print and electronic) to ensure repeated glorification...they are above criticism, holy cows, unaccountable.

    Plus iron-hand on any voice of dissent. Even if you hold a difference of opinion, you won't voice it aloud if you love yourself or your family.

    The result of all this is a society where the opinion of an average person is not too different from that of Zaid Hamid. He isn't an aberration, but rather a 'gold standard' that we are being molded into very successfully.
    I would be proud of anyone who stands up against such a force. You guys are lucky that leaders line the one mentioned in this thread is coming up frequently

  27. #187
    Debut
    Feb 2018
    Runs
    467
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/fe...080944584.html

    As lightning cuts across the darkened Peshawar sky, Manzoor Pashteen implores thousands of demonstrators to no longer be afraid.

    The rain lashes down upon them, as they stand in rapt attention, listening to the leader of the Pashtun Tahaffuz Movement (PTM), a civil rights movement that has quickly risen to national prominence across Pakistan.

    Among the crowd, dozens of people clutch posters, photocopied legal documents or passport-sized photographs of their loved ones, holding them aloft.

    READ MORE
    Disappeared: Silencing Pakistan's activists
    The pictures are of Pakistan's disappeared, the detritus of the security forces' more-than-a-decade-long war against the Pakistan Taliban armed group and its allies. Since 2011, a government commission investigating the enforced disappearances has dealt with more than 4,929 cases of Pakistan's "missing people". Rights groups say the figure is vastly under-reported.

    "I am not against any institution, but if they are being oppressive, then we are against them!" thunders Pashteen. "Every oppressor, whether it is a member of the Taliban … or it is the ISI (Inter-Services Intelligence, Pakistan's most powerful intelligence agency), or the MI (Military Intelligence) or the army, we are against anyone who is committing cruelty!"

    In Pakistan, ruled for roughly half of its 70-year history by its powerful military, people have been disappeared for less.

    Indeed, often they have disappeared for no apparent reason at all.

    'If he is guilty, charge him'
    Ikram Behram, 26, was a tailor working in the city of Peshawar, the capital of the northwestern Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province, where much of Pakistan's war against the Pakistan Taliban has taken place.

    On August 10, 2013, his family says, a group of armed security forces personnel abducted him from his shop. He has not been seen or heard from since.


    Amna Janjua has been fighting the case of her husband who went missing in 2005 [Asad Hashim/Al Jazeera]
    "Elite anti-terrorist force police came into the shop and asked for him by name," says Sarfaraz Ahmed, 23, Behram's cousin. "When he identified himself, they abducted him and took him away."

    It has been five years, Ahmed says, but Behram's family "has been told nothing" by the authorities.

    "If he is guilty of a crime, then charge him in court," says Ahmed. "At least then, we will know what has happened."

    Al Jazeera reviewed 22 cases of "disappeared" citizens for this report. The oldest case dates back to 2005, and the most recent abduction allegedly occurred on December 3, 2017. Those allegedly taken include students, scholars, IT consultants, shopkeepers, daily wage labourers, a policeman, a tailor and a hotel waiter.

    Pakistan's military was provided details of each of the cases, but did not offer comment.

    Often, those who disappear are traced to being in security forces custody in a network of internment centres operated across Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province, says Farid Khan, who works for the government's Commission of Inquiry on Enforced Disappearances.

    In an ongoing Supreme Court case on the issue, however, the government has so far refused to share a list of those being held in captivity, often under vague charges or under a 2011 "anti-terrorism" law that allows indefinite detention for "terrorism" suspects.

    Of bodies, and secret courts
    Not all who enter the internment centres come out alive. According to the Defence of Human Rights (DHR) rights group, at least 153 people have died while in custody at the centres.

    Yaqoob Khan, 32, a shopkeeper originally from the tribal district of Bajaur, was abducted while sitting in an Islamabad park with his son Ilyas in December 2015, his father says.

    "On February 12 [this year], I got a letter saying I should pick up the dead body of my son from [the eastern city of] Lahore."

    READ MORE
    Manzoor Pashteen: The voice of Pashtuns for many in Pakistan
    Many of those held in the internment centres have been tried in Pakistan's secretive military courts for civilian "terrorism suspects". Since 2015, when those courts were formed, they have sentenced at least 375 people, with a conviction rate of 88 percent, according to data gathered by Al Jazeera.

    Legal advocacy groups have alleged rampant rights abuses in the courts.

    Sohail Ahmed, 28, was one of those to be tried. Ahmed went missing from his home in the northern Swat Valley in 2010, his father Usman Ali told Al Jazeera, after military personnel raided their home.

    Ahmed was missing for four years before a court petition traced him to being in military custody at an internment centre in Paitam.

    "I met him four times, but they never told me his crime," says Ali.

    On January 19, a military press release declared that Ahmed had been tried and sentenced to death by a military court, having allegedly confessed to being a member of an armed group and killing four people.

    "My son never mentioned anything about a military court and insisted he was innocent," says Ali, of the last time he met Ahmed, roughly a month before the military court verdict was announced.

    'I could hear their screams'
    Sometimes, the missing do come back.

    On January 4, 2017, Ahmed Waqass Goraya, an IT developer who was also the administrator of a Facebook page critical of the military, went missing while out house-hunting in Lahore. Roughly three weeks later, he was released outside a nearby hospital with a warning to never speak of what he endured while in custody.

    "At first, I was beaten, with slaps and punches. My eardrum was torn by the force of one blow," Goraya told Al Jazeera. "Then, they laid me down and started beating me with wooden sticks. I was tied up and my hands were in handcuffs."

    OPINION
    Pakistan's violent cyberspace: No place for dissent
    Rabia Mehmood
    by Rabia Mehmood
    During the course of his detention, Goraya chronicles hours of interrogation and alleged torture, saying his captors repeatedly accused of him criticising the Pakistani military at the behest of foreign intelligence services.

    "They had a special stand to hang me off and beat me on my legs, back and hands. I had realised at that point that this is not the police. This is the ISI."

    Goraya says he was not alone in the detention centre where he was being held. At least four other social media activists were detained within days of his abduction. One of them told Al Jazeera he was being held at the same site as Goraya, and corroborated his account of alleged abuse.

    "They were continuously beating me in the first eight days. It was 24 hours of torture. And I could hear the screams of others being tortured as well," said Goraya.

    The case of the five missing activists gained widespread media attention, and four of them were released on January 28, 2017. Goraya said he was blindfolded and hooded while being driven around Lahore, and thought he might be killed.

    Eventually, they stopped by the side of the road and forced him out of the vehicle.

    "They removed the blindfold, but I was told not to open my eyes. I sat on my own motorbike and opened my eyes two minutes later."

    A 'rigged system'

    For others, the ordeal can last more than a decade.

    Amna Janjua, the chairperson of the DHR rights group, has been fighting to locate her husband, Masood Janjua, a Rawalpindi-based businessman, since July 2005, when he suddenly went missing on his way to Peshawar for a business trip.

    It is Janjua's case that first gained the attention of Pakistan's Supreme Court in 2006, and led to the formation of the Commission of Inquiry on Enforced Disappearances.

    The commission, however, is "toothless", says Janjua, and no one in the judiciary or security services is serious about offering clarity regarding the fate of Pakistan's disappeared.

    "They always promised that we will help, but that promise was never fulfilled," she says.

    Even in the case of releases, she says, the security forces act with impunity, with no one held responsible for the years the men may have been missing. DHR has traced at least 311 people to security forces custody.

    "The impunity is so extreme that not a single person has ever been charged in connection with a missing persons case," she says.

    Pashteen's PTM is clear about their demands: when it comes to the disappeared, they are not asking for releases, only due process.

    "You have to treat [alleged] 'terrorists' according to the law as well," says Mohsin Dawar, a PTM leader. "Let's suppose for the sake of an argument that if we accept that so-and-so is a terrorist - does that mean that you can keep them disappeared for 10 years? Just because you have labelled someone a 'terrorist', that does not necessarily make them a 'terrorist'."

    Back at the rally in Peshawar, Pashteen is adamant that the era of fear for those caught in the crossfire of Pakistan's war against armed groups is over.

    "What were you thinking, that you could scare us with murders? No one could even take their names! This, taking the names of the MI and ISI, was treated like a capital offence by them," he roared.

    "Here I am, taking your names openly. I am taking your names with my head held high!"

  28. #188
    Debut
    Nov 2015
    Runs
    478
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Gubol123 View Post
    We have our own corrupt leaders thank you. Corrupt and all, politicians are a very important part of our setup. It is not just in India or subcontinent that the leaders are corrupt. Even in developed countries like Japan, Korea, Italy, Greece, America etc and developing nations like south Africa, Brazil etc there are corrupt leaders. Not only in democracy but the corrupt leaders are there in communist countries and monarchies. But only setup where these leaders can be held accountable somewhat is in democracy. So if the corruption comes bundled with democracy then I'll take it everytime knowing that it comes bundled with every sort of government anyway. At least you can hope to vote them out. What will you do with the corrupt leaders who also hold a gun.
    Ok 1 question if your prime minister Modi for example has a sugar factory but he has 300 illegal pakistanis working in there what will be your reaction?

  29. #189
    Debut
    Mar 2016
    Venue
    Attock
    Runs
    874
    Mentioned
    296 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by LordEddardStark View Post
    Is it binding on every Pakistani to be grateful to Army? Is it a pre requisite to become patriotic? Army is an institution after all and there are hundreds other institutions which are criticized night and day? Why this special treatment to Army then? You cannot criticize Army on mainatream news because you and your channel will pay for that officially and unofficially. You cannot criticize it on social media because then you'll be picked up one day and be part of a long list of missing persons. Why is this attitude? What's so sacred about this one institution?
    Army is the only institution that is holding our country together. People forget that the same army which is maligned by many here is the sole reason why we are not a Syria, Libya or Afghanistan. There is no problem in objective criticism but it is illogical to bash your army just for the sake of it while it is fighting a war for our survival.

    Just to let you know, army's different policies and actions are criticized regularly on mainstream media. Army usually does not react until someone gets personal or goes below the belt.

  30. #190
    Debut
    Sep 2016
    Runs
    40
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Greenstorm View Post
    Army is the only institution that is holding our country together. People forget that the same army which is maligned by many here is the sole reason why we are not a Syria, Libya or Afghanistan. There is no problem in objective criticism but it is illogical to bash your army just for the sake of it while it is fighting a war for our survival.

    Just to let you know, army's different policies and actions are criticized regularly on mainstream media. Army usually does not react until someone gets personal or goes below the belt.
    Army kept our country together? I think you need to read up on what happened in East Pakistan during 1971 and what has been happening to nationalist movements in provinces since then? Army was responsible for blunders like "One Unit" too, and has overseen some of the most regressive legislation in our history, particularly during Zia period. Army policy of using terrorist groups for strategic depth has cost us thousands of lives, crippled our economy and ruined our reputation worldwide.

    I love our country dearly and have nothing but respect for the average soldier on the frontlines, but we need to hold those who have power responsible for the havoc they have caused.

  31. #191
    Debut
    Mar 2016
    Venue
    Attock
    Runs
    874
    Mentioned
    296 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Loralai View Post
    Army kept our country together? I think you need to read up on what happened in East Pakistan during 1971 and what has been happening to nationalist movements in provinces since then? Army was responsible for blunders like "One Unit" too, and has overseen some of the most regressive legislation in our history, particularly during Zia period. Army policy of using terrorist groups for strategic depth has cost us thousands of lives, crippled our economy and ruined our reputation worldwide.

    I love our country dearly and have nothing but respect for the average soldier on the frontlines, but we need to hold those who have power responsible for the havoc they have caused.
    I am talking about present day army. Today's army is different from Zia's era. Most of the top generals right now are those who have personally taken part in different operations in Swat and FATA in different capacities. I will be labeled as boot palshiya and brain washed but let me say this that majority of present Generals of Pakistan Army have put on line more than you and I ever will.

  32. #192
    Debut
    Feb 2018
    Runs
    467
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Greenstorm View Post
    I am talking about present day army. Today's army is different from Zia's era. Most of the top generals right now are those who have personally taken part in different operations in Swat and FATA in different capacities. I will be labeled as boot palshiya and brain washed but let me say this that majority of present Generals of Pakistan Army have put on line more than you and I ever will.
    To a hammer, everything looks like a nail. There's a reason why most civilized countries keep the military out of day-to-day administration. All countries' soldiers are organized, efficient and non-corrupt - why don't more nations call on their military to run the show? Because it backfires that's why.

  33. #193
    Debut
    Mar 2016
    Runs
    973
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by pakistan cricket fan View Post
    Ok 1 question if your prime minister Modi for example has a sugar factory but he has 300 illegal pakistanis working in there what will be your reaction?
    no doubt i will be outraged, i won't be outraged against every politician. i also will want law to take its own course (slowly, as it often happens in India). Politicians get accused all the time man..

  34. #194
    Debut
    Jan 2003
    Venue
    MCG
    Runs
    9,839
    Mentioned
    98 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Greenstorm View Post
    I am talking about present day army. Today's army is different from Zia's era. Most of the top generals right now are those who have personally taken part in different operations in Swat and FATA in different capacities. I will be labeled as boot palshiya and brain washed but let me say this that majority of present Generals of Pakistan Army have put on line more than you and I ever will.
    Our current COAS Bajwa has admitted policies of Zia ul Haq messed things up for Pakistan, has time and again assured democracy is the only way forward, came to parliament to respond to all parliamentarians but still gets blamed for blunders made by individuals decades ago.

  35. #195
    Debut
    Sep 2016
    Runs
    2,614
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Did y'all check Shahbaz Taseers thread on twitter, I drop some hard facts about Fata and this movement.


    "Be the best version of yourself"

  36. #196
    Debut
    Jan 2003
    Venue
    MCG
    Runs
    9,839
    Mentioned
    98 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pakistanian View Post
    Did y'all check Shahbaz Taseers thread on twitter, I drop some hard facts about Fata and this movement.
    Yes, won't go down well here so i didn't bother posting but was tempted to.

    He had fierce arguments with lot of PTM supporters.

  37. #197
    Debut
    Mar 2016
    Venue
    Attock
    Runs
    874
    Mentioned
    296 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Watch from 21:30 to 22:00. The same DG ISPR which is being abused by PTM boys was actually fighting terrorists when they were hiding somewhere.

  38. #198
    Debut
    Feb 2005
    Venue
    Cybertron, Guest of Optimus Prime
    Runs
    21,767
    Mentioned
    94 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pakistanian View Post
    Did y'all check Shahbaz Taseers thread on twitter, I drop some hard facts about Fata and this movement.
    yup much respect to the young man especially considering he has first hand knowledge and is no right winger. You should listen to his interview on the bbc world service too. The guy really went through alot and his opinion is very important in this matter..The PTM supporters are simply a bunch of fools who are being used to further an Anti Pakistan agenda. Its not far removed from the end of the sri lankan war..one thing this does prove is the war is over..and whoever supported the TTP has lost..this is an attempt to revive a secular non Islamic insurgency in Pakistan.

  39. #199
    Debut
    Mar 2016
    Venue
    Attock
    Runs
    874
    Mentioned
    296 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by the Great Khan View Post
    yup much respect to the young man especially considering he has first hand knowledge and is no right winger. You should listen to his interview on the bbc world service too. The guy really went through alot and his opinion is very important in this matter..The PTM supporters are simply a bunch of fools who are being used to further an Anti Pakistan agenda. Its not far removed from the end of the sri lankan war..one thing this does prove is the war is over..and whoever supported the TTP has lost..this is an attempt to revive a secular non Islamic insurgency in Pakistan.


    And a pretty lame one I would say. Majority of our population is not that active on social media and electronic media is well regulated in this case, so these type of propaganda campaigns will hardly succeed.

  40. #200
    Debut
    Feb 2005
    Venue
    Cybertron, Guest of Optimus Prime
    Runs
    21,767
    Mentioned
    94 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Greenstorm View Post
    [/B]
    And a pretty lame one I would say. Majority of our population is not that active on social media and electronic media is well regulated in this case, so these type of propaganda campaigns will hardly succeed.
    When i was in Islu a week or so ago, nobody was talking about it. I got more news about it when i got back to the Uk. Its a non issue there..for the moment.

  41. #201
    Debut
    Apr 2015
    Runs
    13,619
    Mentioned
    1095 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)
    Somebody finally stood up and exposed the Maafia brigade.


    https://youtu.be/Pqoc807CY3c

  42. #202
    Debut
    Mar 2016
    Venue
    Attock
    Runs
    874
    Mentioned
    296 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by TalentSpotterPk View Post
    Somebody finally stood up and exposed the Maafia brigade.


    https://youtu.be/Pqoc807CY3c
    You want check posts to be removed from FATA ?

  43. #203
    Debut
    Jan 2003
    Venue
    MCG
    Runs
    9,839
    Mentioned
    98 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Greenstorm View Post
    You want check posts to be removed from FATA ?
    No just want to oppose the Army in every situation:

    Before military action "Oh you must be supporting those terrorists, that's why you refuse to attack hub of terrorism, terrorists are roaming free and no one stops them"

    After military action "Shame on you for attacking innocent people, you ruined their lives and attacked their businesses and made their lives hell with all these check posts"

    Haven't seen more shameless U-turn in our recent history.

    If they were genuine critics, they should've acknowledged good job Army has done and should've spoken for rights of people to make their lives easier again acknowledging the fact that collateral damage and extensive security is unfortunate but there was hardly an alternative option.

  44. #204
    Debut
    Mar 2016
    Venue
    Attock
    Runs
    874
    Mentioned
    296 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Waseem View Post
    No just want to oppose the Army in every situation:

    Before military action "Oh you must be supporting those terrorists, that's why you refuse to attack hub of terrorism, terrorists are roaming free and no one stops them"

    After military action "Shame on you for attacking innocent people, you ruined their lives and attacked their businesses and made their lives hell with all these check posts"

    Haven't seen more shameless U-turn in our recent history.

    If they were genuine critics, they should've acknowledged good job Army has done and should've spoken for rights of people to make their lives easier again acknowledging the fact that collateral damage and extensive security is unfortunate but there was hardly an alternative option.
    Abusing and criticizing army just for the sake of it. It has become a fashion. An act to look cool. This gives them a chance to portray themselves as different from poor, 'brainwashed' masses of Pakistan who worship fauj and to present themselves as 'enlightened' know it all souls. Mostly do it to give some significance to their self obsessed lives and to further feed their ego.

  45. #205
    Debut
    Feb 2016
    Runs
    5,098
    Mentioned
    146 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by TalentSpotterPk View Post
    Somebody finally stood up and exposed the Maafia brigade.


    https://youtu.be/Pqoc807CY3c
    Guy has massive support in FATA and kpk and those ignoring him are not doing the right thing.

  46. #206
    Debut
    Feb 2016
    Runs
    5,098
    Mentioned
    146 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by TalentSpotterPk View Post
    Somebody finally stood up and exposed the Maafia brigade.


    https://youtu.be/Pqoc807CY3c
    i dont know what is wrong with his demands.i can,t see anything unconstitutional so far.

  47. #207
    Debut
    Oct 2010
    Runs
    27,243
    Mentioned
    369 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Can someone tell me where these brave people were when the Talibans were killing innocent people, taking over their lands, bombing the schools and markets, hanging people without trials in the chowks, turning their young brothers into suicide bombers...

    These people are very opportunists who have come out of their graves when army has eliminated Talibans and have taken over their strongholds.

    Missing Persons case? What about 50k+ people who were killed by the terrorists who were living among these people? Why didn't they show their 'gherat' then and kicked them out of their colonies?


    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "This business that it's 'up to Misbah' whether he wants to play or not – that's rubbish - it's up to the selectors," Chappell said.

  48. #208
    Debut
    Oct 2010
    Runs
    27,243
    Mentioned
    369 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by DRsohail View Post
    i dont know what is wrong with his demands.i can,t see anything unconstitutional so far.
    So you don't see anything wrong with his demand that army should be kicked out of conflicted areas where the fear of Talibans coming back is still high?


    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "This business that it's 'up to Misbah' whether he wants to play or not – that's rubbish - it's up to the selectors," Chappell said.

  49. #209
    Debut
    Oct 2010
    Runs
    27,243
    Mentioned
    369 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Loralai View Post
    Army kept our country together? I think you need to read up on what happened in East Pakistan during 1971 and what has been happening to nationalist movements in provinces since then? Army was responsible for blunders like "One Unit" too, and has overseen some of the most regressive legislation in our history, particularly during Zia period. Army policy of using terrorist groups for strategic depth has cost us thousands of lives, crippled our economy and ruined our reputation worldwide.

    I love our country dearly and have nothing but respect for the average soldier on the frontlines, but we need to hold those who have power responsible for the havoc they have caused.
    be thankful for Pakistan army otherwise all of FATA and KPK would have been ruled by Pakistani Talibans with the Afghan version of Sharia Law where you would have been hanged without even listening to your story. Pakistan army has done an incredible job to fight off an enemy that was difficult to be seen let alone fight. I know the coming generations also people like you are thankless and you will never realize how important job Pak army done.


    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "This business that it's 'up to Misbah' whether he wants to play or not – that's rubbish - it's up to the selectors," Chappell said.

  50. #210
    Debut
    Feb 2016
    Runs
    5,098
    Mentioned
    146 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by MRSN View Post
    So you don't see anything wrong with his demand that army should be kicked out of conflicted areas where the fear of Talibans coming back is still high?
    His demands have never been about kicking army out of the areas.

  51. #211
    Debut
    Jun 2015
    Venue
    Srinagar
    Runs
    3,256
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    There should be a distinction form the Afghan Taliban and the TTP guys who were in FATA while these guys were sleeping and pretending not to see anything

  52. #212
    Debut
    Feb 2016
    Runs
    5,098
    Mentioned
    146 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by MRSN View Post
    be thankful for Pakistan army otherwise all of FATA and KPK would have been ruled by Pakistani Talibans with the Afghan version of Sharia Law where you would have been hanged without even listening to your story. Pakistan army has done an incredible job to fight off an enemy that was difficult to be seen let alone fight. I know the coming generations also people like you are thankless and you will never realize how important job Pak army done.
    you have never seen the the specific people being used for strategic gains.

  53. #213
    Debut
    Oct 2010
    Runs
    27,243
    Mentioned
    369 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by DRsohail View Post
    His demands have never been about kicking army out of the areas.
    he wants checkposts to be gone which is what irritates the TTP animals. How is that demand fair? these security check points are everywhere even in Punjab and we are talking about war torn areas of KPK and FATA where you expect security to be always high alert.


    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "This business that it's 'up to Misbah' whether he wants to play or not – that's rubbish - it's up to the selectors," Chappell said.

  54. #214
    Debut
    Feb 2016
    Runs
    5,098
    Mentioned
    146 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by MRSN View Post
    he wants checkposts to be gone which is what irritates the TTP animals. How is that demand fair? these security check points are everywhere even in Punjab and we are talking about war torn areas of KPK and FATA where you expect security to be always high alert.
    Bro he said unnecceory chekposts to be removed and the behaviour of the milliatry personnels at checkpost which again u have never experienced.I think he is right in this regard,You can see many posts in this thread where it has been discussed.

  55. #215
    Debut
    Jan 2003
    Venue
    MCG
    Runs
    9,839
    Mentioned
    98 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by DRsohail View Post
    Bro he said unnecceory chekposts to be removed and the behaviour of the milliatry personnels at checkpost which again u have never experienced.I think he is right in this regard,You can see many posts in this thread where it has been discussed.
    Bro, what do you think is best way to demand your rights?

    Either people say this:
    Yes we know there was massive issue in tribal areas and although Army has done great job, we face massive issues and we will keep protesting will we get our rights.

    Or
    Ye jo dehshat gardi hai,sis k peechay wardi hai, we will attack you Pakistan Army and other disgusting words.

    How does using aggressive and threatening approach resolve an issue? When they were protesting for Naqeeb, i remember EVERY political leader and Army chief visited them and then all of a sudden the genuine demands get overshadowed by people working clearly on agenda. Of course people will still come out and support anyone who raises voice for them but doesn't change the fact that the movement has been hijacked at the hands of Pashteen, Achakzai etc

  56. #216
    Debut
    Apr 2015
    Runs
    13,619
    Mentioned
    1095 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by DRsohail View Post
    Guy has massive support in FATA and kpk and those ignoring him are not doing the right thing.

    Establishment stooges will not understand this until there sons , husbands, fathers & uncles are not picked up by ISI.


    This is a state within a state.


    Establishment has beem brutally exposed in the case of 5 bloggers they picked up accusing them of being the faces behind Blasphemous facebook pages. Later the court was told that there was zero evidence.


    The fact of the matter was that they were pro-democracy and it pained the khaakis massively because on pages like Chiragh and Mochi brainwashed patriots were blown away by reality and social media was bringing about much needed change. It was an eye opener for millions and khaakis did not like it.


    This Manzoor Pashteen is a hard nut for establishment and it's stooges. He cannot be eliminated by their torcher cells or killed like Saleem Shehzad because the brave man has an army of Pashtoon's behind his back aswell as support of non racist , liberal , secular pro democrat communities.


    I will quote one line from his interview with BBC in my next post and that kills it all.


    Establishment must learn and learn quickly. They must stick to their constitutional duties. This Use and Abuse must stop for the sake of Pakistan.

  57. #217
    Debut
    Apr 2015
    Runs
    13,619
    Mentioned
    1095 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)
    Quotes for Pakistanis from Manzoor Pashteen's Interview :


    ریاست نے شدت پسندی کو فروغ دیا ہے۔


    پاکستان کے جو اور ادارے ادارے ہیں اس نے اور کام بالکل چھوڑ دیا تھا اور صرف اس چیز کو فروغ دے رہے تھے۔


    جس دن ہم پر توپوں اور جیٹ طیاروں سے بمباری میں اسکا فائدہ ہوا اس دن وہ کام کرتے ہیں۔جس دن لوگوں کو راشن دینے میں اسکا فائدہ ہو اس دن راشن دیتے ہیں۔ جس دن ان لوگوں سے کسی اور کو مارنے کی، اس دن وہ کرتے ہیں۔


    @DRsohail

  58. #218
    Debut
    Apr 2015
    Runs
    13,619
    Mentioned
    1095 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by MRSN View Post
    he wants checkposts to be gone which is what irritates the TTP animals. How is that demand fair? these security check points are everywhere even in Punjab and we are talking about war torn areas of KPK and FATA where you expect security to be always high alert.

    Talibaan ko banaya kis ne tha ?

  59. #219
    Debut
    Feb 2016
    Runs
    5,098
    Mentioned
    146 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by TalentSpotterPk View Post
    Quotes for Pakistanis from Manzoor Pashteen's Interview :


    ریاست نے شدت پسندی کو فروغ دیا ہے۔


    پاکستان کے جو اور ادارے ادارے ہیں اس نے اور کام بالکل چھوڑ دیا تھا اور صرف اس چیز کو فروغ دے رہے تھے۔


    جس دن ہم پر توپوں اور جیٹ طیاروں سے بمباری میں اسکا فائدہ ہوا اس دن وہ کام کرتے ہیں۔جس دن لوگوں کو راشن دینے میں اسکا فائدہ ہو اس دن راشن دیتے ہیں۔ جس دن ان لوگوں سے کسی اور کو مارنے کی، اس دن وہ کرتے ہیں۔


    @DRsohail
    truth is bitter sometimes.He speaks the heart of many paople which our key board warriors can,t understand.

  60. #220
    Debut
    Feb 2016
    Runs
    5,098
    Mentioned
    146 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by TalentSpotterPk View Post
    Talibaan ko banaya kis ne tha ?
    mushkil questions match pocho bhai.

  61. #221
    Debut
    Feb 2016
    Runs
    5,098
    Mentioned
    146 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Waseem View Post
    Bro, what do you think is best way to demand your rights?

    Either people say this:
    Yes we know there was massive issue in tribal areas and although Army has done great job, we face massive issues and we will keep protesting will we get our rights.

    Or
    Ye jo dehshat gardi hai,sis k peechay wardi hai, we will attack you Pakistan Army and other disgusting words.

    How does using aggressive and threatening approach resolve an issue? When they were protesting for Naqeeb, i remember EVERY political leader and Army chief visited them and then all of a sudden the genuine demands get overshadowed by people working clearly on agenda. Of course people will still come out and support anyone who raises voice for them but doesn't change the fact that the movement has been hijacked at the hands of Pashteen, Achakzai etc
    Can u explain how this all terrorism started in FATA and how it evolved???

  62. #222
    Debut
    Sep 2016
    Runs
    40
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by DRsohail View Post
    mushkil questions match pocho bhai.
    @DRsohail @TalentSpotterPk yeh woh sawal hai jiska koi bhi jawab nahin dega

    Establishment stooges continue with their rhetoric but are unable to accept responsibility. It is important to hold establishment responsible for their activities.

    Can someone please explain how Khadim Hussain Rizvi (one of many 'useful' terrorists) can operate without any fear or concerns, but PTM movement is being labelled as anti national, anti Pakistan etc?

    Why was Pak army general giving out money to Faizabad protestors?
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-42149535

  63. #223
    Debut
    Mar 2016
    Venue
    Attock
    Runs
    874
    Mentioned
    296 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by TalentSpotterPk View Post
    Talibaan ko banaya kis ne tha ?
    Quote Originally Posted by DRsohail View Post
    mushkil questions match pocho bhai.
    Quote Originally Posted by Loralai View Post
    @DRsohail @TalentSpotterPk yeh woh sawal hai jiska koi bhi jawab nahin dega

    Establishment stooges continue with their rhetoric but are unable to accept responsibility. It is important to hold establishment responsible for their activities.

    Can someone please explain how Khadim Hussain Rizvi (one of many 'useful' terrorists) can operate without any fear or concerns, but PTM movement is being labelled as anti national, anti Pakistan etc?

    Why was Pak army general giving out money to Faizabad protestors?
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-42149535
    How conveniently you all ignore the difference between Afghan Taliban and the TTP. Or are you telling me that TTP is also created by army ? If you are hinting towards the policies of Zia which promoted extremist mindset and as a result TTP got ready mate recruits, then the man and his accomplices are long gone. What is the point of abusing present day Pak army which is trying to undo its previous mistakes and has proved it by its actions ?

    Do you also forget the role of RAW and other foreign agencies who were behind TTP. All of Pakistan including army suffered from terrorism, not just Pashtoons (who without doubt suffered the most). Can anyone tell me that what is the stance of Pashteen regarding TTP, Afghan Taliban, foreign agencies or his gun only aims at Pak army ?

  64. #224
    Debut
    Apr 2015
    Runs
    13,619
    Mentioned
    1095 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Loralai View Post
    @DRsohail @TalentSpotterPk yeh woh sawal hai jiska koi bhi jawab nahin dega

    Establishment stooges continue with their rhetoric but are unable to accept responsibility. It is important to hold establishment responsible for their activities.

    Can someone please explain how Khadim Hussain Rizvi (one of many 'useful' terrorists) can operate without any fear or concerns, but PTM movement is being labelled as anti national, anti Pakistan etc?

    Why was Pak army general giving out money to Faizabad protestors?
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-42149535

    To weaken democratic government by playing " khatm e nabooat card "


    To stop efforts for Civilian Supremacy.


    To brainwash majority Barelwee Muslims by potraying Nawaz Sharif & PML N as traitors of Islam / Ummah.


    Same forces are behind Khaadim Hussain Rizvi & Tahir ul Qadri. These are " Raakheils " of Establishment.



    Manzoor Pashteen's entry in many public universities has been barred yet Haafiz Saeed , Ejaz Farooqi & LJ enjoy another status. (Prized Assets of Est)

  65. #225
    Debut
    Apr 2015
    Runs
    13,619
    Mentioned
    1095 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)

  66. #226
    Debut
    Feb 2016
    Runs
    5,098
    Mentioned
    146 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by TalentSpotterPk View Post
    yaar had kar di.......

  67. #227
    Debut
    Feb 2016
    Runs
    5,098
    Mentioned
    146 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    @TalentSpotterPk yaha bhok ghadar ha. bhhok ma pait par hath rakna gonah ha,
    pyas ghadar ha pyas ma aasmano to takna gunah ha
    nafs ghadar ha
    sach ma loptay hoy justajo k naya rasty koltay nafs ghadar ha
    sach bhi ghadar ha
    fahm wa adrak daita howa sach kisi dosary molk ka koi jasos ha
    khwab ghadar ha
    zindagi ko nayi karwaty bakhshay walay saaray taswr naya justajo k qarinay,naya rasaty par utahay gaya qadam sab swalaat ghadar ha
    you should lsiten to this famous poetry by a young man.

  68. #228
    Debut
    Sep 2016
    Runs
    2,614
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by DRsohail View Post
    @TalentSpotterPk yaha bhok ghadar ha. bhhok ma pait par hath rakna gonah ha,
    pyas ghadar ha pyas ma aasmano to takna gunah ha
    nafs ghadar ha
    sach ma loptay hoy justajo k naya rasty koltay nafs ghadar ha
    sach bhi ghadar ha
    fahm wa adrak daita howa sach kisi dosary molk ka koi jasos ha
    khwab ghadar ha
    zindagi ko nayi karwaty bakhshay walay saaray taswr naya justajo k qarinay,naya rasaty par utahay gaya qadam sab swalaat ghadar ha
    you should lsiten to this famous poetry by a young man.
    This shahbaz taseer guy who live in fata exposed your movement. This guy is an ethnofascist and I'm not surprised you support, ethnofascism is deeply rooted in your community.


    "Be the best version of yourself"

  69. #229
    Debut
    Feb 2016
    Runs
    5,098
    Mentioned
    146 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pakistanian View Post
    This shahbaz taseer guy who live in fata exposed your movement. This guy is an ethnofascist and I'm not surprised you support, ethnofascism is deeply rooted in your community.
    lolz what are you bringing here.

  70. #230
    Debut
    Feb 2016
    Runs
    5,098
    Mentioned
    146 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pakistanian View Post
    This shahbaz taseer guy who live in fata exposed your movement. This guy is an ethnofascist and I'm not surprised you support, ethnofascism is deeply rooted in your community.
    It was not like this thats why ANP did not get clear majority most of the times.Its a natural thing that u rise against the wall when u are being pushed too much.

  71. #231
    Debut
    Jan 2006
    Runs
    7,801
    Mentioned
    163 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Manzoor Pashteen & Pashtun Tahafuz Movement

    Saw this guys interview on a show recently. What do you guys make of him. Im espedially interested in responses from posters who are from KP. There is no question that the grievances he talks about are genuine. Its a shame that our countrys establishment has alienated the people of FATA to the point where they dont even feel as part of the country anymore. They are being treated like 3rd class citizens, humiltiated and discriminated against. Not only that, they are kidnaped and murdered mercilessly and with impunity by the state. Have our country not learned from the annexation of East Pakistan and the upheaval in Baluchistan. Even if this guy and his party/movement is being funded to some extent by foreign forces, why is the state creating and nurturing conditions where a whole community and ethnicity of people feel disenfranchised and repressed.

    Thoughts?


    “I am not young enough to know everything.”

    ― Oscar Wilde

  72. #232
    Debut
    May 2014
    Venue
    chennai
    Runs
    17,774
    Mentioned
    427 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    There is already a huge thread on it Bro, what every poster thinks of him is in there.

  73. #233
    Debut
    May 2014
    Venue
    chennai
    Runs
    17,774
    Mentioned
    427 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    @saadibaba to get an idea.

  74. #234
    Debut
    Jan 2006
    Runs
    7,801
    Mentioned
    163 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Sorry bro, I looked at the first 2 pages and didnt find anything, may have missed it.

    Mods please merge.

  75. #235
    Debut
    Jan 2006
    Runs
    7,801
    Mentioned
    163 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Cool. Got it.

  76. #236
    Debut
    Jan 2006
    Runs
    7,801
    Mentioned
    163 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    When Amir Liaqat attacks someone, you know who is behind it and why. Just because of that I feel like supporting Manzoor Pashteen.

  77. #237
    Debut
    Aug 2014
    Runs
    3,073
    Mentioned
    128 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Annexation of East Pakistan?

  78. #238
    Debut
    Jan 2015
    Venue
    Toronto, Canada
    Runs
    30,875
    Mentioned
    1292 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Nashukri quam... Maybe people want to go back to the time of daily bomb blasts.

  79. #239
    Debut
    Dec 2016
    Runs
    200
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Nothing will happen, chest thumping pak nationalism and blind army worship is unprecedented in my community.

  80. #240
    Debut
    Apr 2015
    Runs
    13,619
    Mentioned
    1095 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)
    Boot Polishiye will call him RAW agent



Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •