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  1. #1
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    Imran Khan : US uses Pakistan like tissue paper

    The longstanding alliance between Pakistan and the United States is faltering, with Washington accusing Islamabad of supporting terrorism. How serious is this spat and what will it mean for America’s Afghan war? We ask Imran Khan, member of Pakistan’s National Assembly and leader of the Pakistan Movement for Justice.

    Sophie Shevardnadze: Imran Khan, member of Pakistan’s National Assembly and leader of Pakistan Movement for Justice, welcome to the show, it’s really great to have you with us today. Mr. Khan, Pakistani Prime Minister Abbasi has just paid a visit to Kabul. Now Afghans, like former Afghan Intelligence chief Amrullah Saleh, are saying that Pakistan views Afghanistan as a weaker state, and its relations with Afghanistan are driven by sheer greed and arrogance. How can you strike deals with Kabul if they view Pakistan this way?

    Imran Khan: This is very unfortunate. The remarks of the Afghan Intelligence chief to define Pakistan’s relationships with Afghanistan in these terms is actually very unfortunate because Afghanistan needs Pakistan, and Pakistan needs peace and stability in Afghanistan. Otherwise Pakistan gets affected, especially along the border, the so-called the FATA, the tribal areas on the border of Afghanistan. So if you have problems in Afghanistan, instability which sadly has been there for 16 years, Pakistan gets affected. So it’s in Pakistan’s interest that there is peace in Afghanistan. There is a problem, unfortunately, that the American policy of using a one-dimensional military solution to problems in Afghanistan has led not only to the longest war, but it has caused immense problems to Pakistan. Because the border with Afghanistan is the poorest, there was a free movement of people. And so what happens in Afghanistan affects Pakistan, so we need peace there, and I find these statements very sad.

    SS:I hear you. Talking about American policy, back in January Donald Trump ordered billions of dollars in security aid to Pakistan to be frozen, accusing it of inaction in the war on terror. Former head of ISI, Asad Durrani, told me that Pakistan’s dependence on American aid ended a long time ago. So why then is your country’s defense minister calling on the United States to reconsider the cut?

    IK: My point of view is that this American aid has been very costly for Pakistan. For getting whatever aid we did get in these 15 years, the damage done to Pakistan and participating the U.S. war on terror has led to almost 70,000 people dead. It has devastated our tribal areas, the border areas, we have half of the population - we are talking about 3 to 4 million people - who were internally displaced. And the loss of the economy is about 100 billion dollars. So this small aid has been very costly. And the lesson learned, from Pakistan’s point of view, is to never fight someone else’s war. And people like us have always opposed it. Donald Trump doesn’t understand the history of Afghanistan. Afghanistan has a history, where they do not accept foreigners. They have always resisted foreign invasions. And if he had even drawn any lessons from the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, before that the British in the 19th century invasion of Afghanistan, he would know that this military solution which Donald Trump also has tried, is going to fail. The only solution, the only way to bring peace in Afghanistan is all the neighbors sit together and then come up with a political solution. There is no other solution apart from that.

    SS: So the U.S. government is saying that anywhere from 50% to 70% of the aid sent to Pakistan was misspent, wasted on kickbacks, bribes, even stolen. Meanwhile, the Pakistani foreign minister says that the country is ready to account for every single penny. In your opinion, once again, should there be more to this spat? I mean, should the Americans put forth proof of corruption? Should Pakistan follow up and show actual accounting?

    IK: The aid given in proportion to the damage done in Pakistan by participating in the U.S. war - there is no comparison. The aid was what? They say, about 20 billion dollars, maybe 25 billion dollars. Pakistan has lost over a hundred billion dollars. Economy suffered. Investment suffered. The damage done through terrorism meant that foreign investors won’t come into Pakistan. Tourism collapsed in this country. Even today foreign cricket teams don’t come to play in Pakistan. So this country took a heavy punishment by participating in that war. And as I said, the money coming from that aid is a small pittance compared to what it cost to people of Pakistan.

    SS:So you have said that Trump is briefed by and working for the agenda of Pakistan’s enemies. Whose agenda would that be?

    IK: The things that Donald Trump has said - he has actually applauded India’s role in the war on terror, and he has actually blamed Pakistan for the U.S. not winning in Afghanistan. And then he has blamed Pakistan for terrorism. Now this is exactly what India says about Pakistan. And so therefore it was extremely hurtful for people of this country. They participated in the war that was not Pakistan’s war. There were no Pakistanis involved in 9/11. Al-Qaeda was in Afghanistan. There were no militant Taliban in Pakistan. How did we end up in a war where 70,000 Pakistanis have died? We still have terrorism in this country, we’re still having the effects of this war on terror. Therefore, to be blamed for the U.S. failure in Afghanistan...

    SS:Mr. Khan, are you saying India is duping American President into making decisions?

    IK: I don’t know what he has come up with, but it’s quite clear that the things he is saying is praising India whereas India didn’t make any sacrifices in this war on terror. What role did India play in this whole war? It’s Pakistan that took the burden, the suffering. And so to praise India is shocking for all of us. What has India contributed to this war on terror? And to give India a role in Afghanistan... India doesn’t have a border with Afghanistan.

    SS:Pakistan’s foreign minister says that United States has turned Islamabad into ‘a whipping boy’ to distract from its failures in Afghanistan. Do you agree? Is Washington looking to single out Pakistan to deter criticism?

    IK: Absolutely, I agree with that. Just look at the facts. At one point there were 150,000 NATO troops in Afghanistan. And then the Afghan army is anything between 250,000 to 300,000. So you are talking about almost half a million armed forces in Afghanistan. And what the U.S. blames Pakistan for is that two or three thousand insurgents coming from Pakistan to Afghanistan are the reason why they could not win the war in Afghanistan.

    SS:Can the drop in American aid be countered by deals of Pakistan’s newest friends, like China or Saudi Arabia? Are you expecting their influence to rise now that the United States is on the collision course with Pakistan?

    IK: Firstly, what would the U.S. do to be on a collision course with Pakistan? The maximum leverage that the U.S. has is to stop the aid. And, you know, Pakistan should try everything to keep the U.S. happy. But the problem is that the U.S. expects Pakistan - the message it has made in Afghanistan - to somehow win the war which they’ve badly lost in Afghanistan. And when I say ‘lost’ I mean they haven’t won. All the Taliban have to do to win the war is not to lose. So what the U.S. expects Pakistan to do is what it has not been able to do to succeed in Afghanistan. And clearly Pakistan has limitations. And if Pakistan now… What they want to do is to take actions against these Taliban groups supposedly operating from Pakistan. Well, then they should tell us where these groups are. They are talking about the Haqqani network. At its peak the Haqqani network would have maximum 2000 – 2500 men in Pakistan. That surely cannot be the reason why they’ve lost and have not been able to win for 16 years. What I feel is that the American policy of military actions, collateral damage... I don’t know whether you have seen, in Kunduz the bomb in madrasa killed a hundred children. Now that hundred children killed by the American bomb means that this will raise hatred in Afghanistan, and hatred means more recruits, and so it’s an ongoing circle: collateral damage, hatred, more recruits and an ongoing war. So the answer is that the U.S. has to change its strategy. And that’s going towards dialogue and political solution.

    SS:So the loss of the U.S. aid may not be a catastrophe for your country, but now Americans are considering provisionally putting Pakistan on the international terrorism sponsor list, the so-called gray list. You may think it is not fair to Pakistan, but how damaging and dangerous would that be for the country?

    IK: I think, it’s very unfair to Pakistan, you know, a country that participated in the U.S. war, and I repeat, a country that had nothing to do with 9/11, and a country that lost more people than any other country. I mean, Pakistan lost more human beings, almost 70,000 dead, vast number of them were handicapped because of bomb blasts, for helping the Americans, for joining the American war, it brought the heaviest cost. And at the end the Americans today blame Pakistan and put sanctions against it, I think, this is the greatest travesty of justice. I think, you know, it is something which is inconceivable that the U.S. would blame Pakistan for its failure in Afghanistan.

    SS:But how damaging would it be though?

    IK: Well, it will be damaging. I mean, for Pakistan, unfortunately, the economic situation is not that strong right now. The country is actually going through an economic crisis. So American sanctions would be damaging. But I mean, is this justice? Is it fair? Is this how the U.S. would use a country like a tissue paper and when it thinks it doesn’t need it anymore it just casts it away? I think it’s very immoral.

    SS:Mr. Khan, you said that Pakistan should fight terrorism for its own sake. Is Pakistan fighting terrorism for somebody else at the present moment?

    IK: Well, Pakistan started off fighting the U.S. war. I mean, there was no Al-Qaeda in Pakistan, there were no militant Taliban in Pakistan, and we didn’t have the terrorism. We had sectarian terrorism, but that was just nothing compared to what happened once we joined the U.S. war on terror after 9/11. And then we had a spate of suicide bombings which was bigger than in any other country. I mean, Pakistan suffered the sort of terrorism which no other country suffered. And there was a point in 2010-2011 when people were worried about the future of the country, we were falling apart. So it was thanks to the security forces that they eventually took this fanaticism and terrorism under control, which was because we were considered collaborators with the Americans. So all the anti-Americanism turned against Pakistan. People were attacking Pakistani security forces because they thought we were collaborating with the U.S. So the brunt of the anger against the U.S. was borne by Pakistan.

    SS: Afghan politicians are openly saying that Pakistan is supporting the Taliban, it’s become somewhat of an open secret, and even some former Pakistani officials are admitting to that, like Musharraf even. How can Pakistan be fighting terrorists with one hand and then supporting them with another?

    IK: Well, they are two different things. One is the so-called Taliban who attack in Pakistan, Pakistani forces, security forces. On the other hand, there is the Afghan Taliban who are fighting in Afghanistan. Now what Pakistan says is that the terrorism coming into Pakistan is from Afghanistan, and Afghanistan is saying that the terrorism coming into Afghanistan, or that they cannot win it in Afghanistan, is because of the insurgents which is the Afghan Taliban going in from the Pakistani borders. My point is that clearly, first of all, there is a huge part of Afghanistan, some say 40%, some say 50%, which is not under the control of the Afghan government. So why would all these Taliban have to come to Pakistan if there is so much space available for them to operate within Afghanistan? That’s a number one point. Number two, given that there is not going to be peace in Afghanistan unless there is a political settlement, so shouldn’t the Afghan government and the Americans be telling Pakistan to use their influence on the Afghan Taliban to get them to peace talks? So, surely, Pakistan’s role right now should not be trying killing more people, and creating more problems for a country, that has taken the most beating, most suffering in the war on terror. It should rather be helping in the dialogue and the peace process with its influence on the Afghan Taliban.

    SS: Is Pakistan actually capable of getting its multiple militant groups under control on the Afghan border and in Kashmir? International community is saying that Pakistan tolerates militants, but does Pakistan have enough strength to eradicate them if it wanted to? I mean, the Pakistani Taliban are even listing you your family as targets. Can they be stopped?

    IK: The strength of the Pakistani Taliban has been greatly reduced. Ever since the American footprint reduced in Afghanistan, the level of fanaticism went down in our country; no longer were the Pakistani security forces supposed to be collaborators of the Americans. Hence, the recruitment for the Pakistani Taliban went down, and the fanaticism went down and so the Pakistani security forces are more or less in control of, what is called, a TPT - the Pakistan Taliban. The problem is in Afghanistan now. If Afghanistan is secure, settled, stable, then there would be peace in Pakistan. The problem is that because Afghanistan is unsettled we keep having attacks from Afghanistan on the Pakistani soil right now, because the Pakistani forces have control over the Pakistani areas more or less now. There are still incidents, but much fewer. There has been a problem with Kashmir for the last 25 years. There are almost 600,000 to 700,000 Indian troops in Kashmir, there are violations of human rights, the local population has turned against the Indian army, the people have risen up against India in peaceful protests. Now India blames Pakistan for what is going on in Kashmir. In Kashmir it’s an indigenous struggle. This is not a struggle fueled by Pakistan. Why don’t they give the Kashmiris the right to decide what they want, the democratic right to decide their future? But they do not give them that right, they are using their forces to suppress that democratic freedom struggle and they blame Pakistan for what is going on in Kashmir which, again, is unfair. Now we have two fronts. One is India blaming all what is happening in Kashmir on Pakistan. The other is the U.S. and the Afghan government blaming the instability in Afghanistan on Pakistan. That’s Pakistan’s problem right now. Unfortunately, we did not project that point of view on the diplomatic level. We have failed to really project what is happening in Kashmir and at the same time the sacrifices Pakistan has given in the U.S. war on terror, and Pakistan is not responsible for what is happening in Afghanistan.

    SS: You’ve said that if hundreds of thousands of NATO troops couldn’t change the situation in Afghanistan, additional troops that the U.S. is sending there annually are ‘only going to prolong the agony’. Do you mean to say that Afghanistan is finished as a state and should be left alone to die peacefully?

    IK: No, not at all. I think that Afghanistan has a very proud history, its people have suffered more than probably any other country because they’ve been suffering almost 40 years. They’ve been suffering this conflict, strive, instability and, so, if any people deserve peace, it’s the people of Afghanistan. And the only way that can be achieved is if all the neighbors sit at the table and bring the Afghan Taliban and the Afghan government at the table. That’s the only way. Unfortunately, until recently the Americans were not willing to talk to the Afghan Taliban. Only now they have accepted that there should be dialogue. But this one-dimensional policy of just using military means to achieve peace had failed a long time ago. There was a time when Obama came to power and there was Holbrooke, the Rep. (Representative) in Afghanistan and he almost got the Taliban to sit at the table for a dialogue. But, unfortunately, that surge spearheaded by Petraeus is what sabotaged these peace talks, and actually that led to more bloodshed. Now, Trump initially tried the same thing again hoping that, you know, by attacking the Taliban they would bring them to the table, but that’s failed. And now, I think, there is a consensus everywhere that the only way peace can be achieved in Afghanistan is through dialogue and all neighbors sitting at the table. But that is the most important thing to help the people of Afghanistan.

    SS: So Hamid Karzai told me in a recent interview that Pakistan’s policy towards his country is defined by its rivalry with India. Why is it so bad for Pakistan if Afghanistan becomes India’s friend?

    IK: Well, it’s because the signals coming from India are extremely aggressive. Ever since Narendra Modi’s prime-ministership India’s stance with Pakistan is not only aggressive, but the whole foreign policy is to isolate Pakistan. And some of us in this country think that they even wouldn’t mind Pakistan splitting, breaking away Waziristan from the rest of the country. So clearly Pakistan is worried that if they face India on two fronts, meaning, you know, along Eastern border and then if Afghanistan becomes an Indian satellite, which is a big challenge for the Pakistan security forces, then Pakistan is struggling on two fronts. So it’s out of this insecurity that Hamid Karzai is right - the policy is determined by the security issues.

    SS: So both countries, India and Pakistan, are saying how tense their relations are and have military plans for a conflict. Recently Pakistan adopted a doctrine of using low-yield nuclear weapons in case of a major war with India. Is Islamabad really ready to use nuclear weapons on the Indian subcontinent?

    IK: That is the nightmare scenario. And that is why it is very important to resolve our differences; India and Pakistan are to sit at the table and have some sort of a roadmap to resolve the issues. The problem is, I repeat again, Prime Minister Narendra Modi who since coming to power has the policy that is extremely aggressive and it is hostile towards Pakistan. Obviously Pakistan is much smaller than India, and it has made the country very insecure. The government is insecure, our security establishment is insecure. Bearing in mind that we are two nuclear-armed countries the best way is if we will sit down and resolve our differences. But, unfortunately, so far India’s response has been arrogant and very aggressive. And whatever happens, the moment any sort of talks start or have (started) in the past, one terrorist incident derails the whole process and we are back to square one. What we really need is a strong determined leadership in both countries, a leadership that has the ability to take the pressure from that small lobby in both countries that doesn’t want peace. And whatever happens, whatever little incident happens, the two countries stick to the roadmap of peace. And the peace has to be a resolution of the Kashmir issue. So, unfortunately, at the moment I don’t see that dialogue happening, but in the future it is the only solution that the two countries sit together and resolve this issue of Kashmir, so that we can live side by side as civilized neighbors.

    SS: All right, Mr. Khan, thank you very much for this interview. Good luck with the elections. We were talking with Imran Khan, member of Pakistan’s National Assembly and leader of Pakistan Movement for Justice discussing the rift between Islamabad and Washington and its implications for the peace process in Afghanistan.

    IK: Thank you.


    https://www.rt.com/shows/sophieco/42...lliance-issue/
    Last edited by MenInG; 16th April 2018 at 14:31.


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  2. #2
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    This is his view from day 1 when this so called war on terror started.

  3. #3
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    Pakistan didn't have "nothing" to do with 9/11. The ecosystem of "non state actors and organizations that was created and existed all through the 1990s, primarily created and nourished by Pakistan, is where the plot for 9/11 was conceived and operationalized.

    There's a reason why nobody outside of Pakistan buys the Pakistani narrative of victimhood. Because its false and self-serving.

  4. #4
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    Pakistan were also responsible for Vietnam, Falklands, and Brexit.

    Pakistan responsible for 9/11 - Indians trying their damn hardest here for Gold in comedy, then again claims from the same person in reference to Kashmir were also shot down in laughter.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planni...ber_11_attacks

    LOL!


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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by OoparCut View Post
    Pakistan didn't have "nothing" to do with 9/11. The ecosystem of "non state actors and organizations that was created and existed all through the 1990s, primarily created and nourished by Pakistan, is where the plot for 9/11 was conceived and operationalized.

    There's a reason why nobody outside of Pakistan buys the Pakistani narrative of victimhood. Because its false and self-serving.
    wrong. 9/11 was planned and executed from Europe. Inspired by a saudi living in afghanistan. Nothing to do with Pakistan. As for teh non state actors, they were the mujahideen rebel fighters supprted by the west and sent to fight he soviets. Stop this stupid propaganda. As for the "world" well thats pretty much the west and India. Unfortunatley india has a large propaganda presence in most western media outlets and we have none. They have dominated the narrative but only because the US wants the narrative to continue. We need a strong leader to tell the west to stop lying and tell the truth..fat chance..

  6. #6
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    IK: That is the nightmare scenario. And that is why it is very important to resolve our differences; India and Pakistan are to sit at the table and have some sort of a roadmap to resolve the issues. The problem is, I repeat again, Prime Minister Narendra Modi who since coming to power has the policy that is extremely aggressive and it is hostile towards Pakistan.
    Modi's aggressive stance can quite clearly be seen by the first Indian response here ( or Kashmiri/Bangladeshi if you like), which reflects that aggression and hostility quite aptly.

    But good interview as always by IK, hope he can make a difference some day in relations with the US and India.


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  7. #7
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    Every Tom,Dick and Harry knows that 9/11 was an inside job aimed at seizing hold of the Arab countries and their oil.Libya,Iraq and Syria are prime examples.But like always,Indian Nationalists will somehow try to associate this incident with Pakistan too.☺

  8. #8
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    This russian program host is already a fan of IK now after one interview




  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by the Great Khan View Post
    wrong. 9/11 was planned and executed from Europe. Inspired by a saudi living in afghanistan. Nothing to do with Pakistan. As for teh non state actors, they were the mujahideen rebel fighters supprted by the west and sent to fight he soviets. Stop this stupid propaganda. As for the "world" well thats pretty much the west and India. Unfortunatley india has a large propaganda presence in most western media outlets and we have none. They have dominated the narrative but only because the US wants the narrative to continue. We need a strong leader to tell the west to stop lying and tell the truth..fat chance..
    This "alternate" history sells well in Pakistan, and on this board. But it aint reality. Go check who wired $90,000 dollars from Karachi to Mohammed Atta a few days before 9/11. KSM - the Pakistan born Kuwaiti, was instrumental in the 9/11 plot.

    Sure, those mujahideen were anti-soviet fighters. In the 1980s. Pakistan tried to duplicate the mujahideen method and apply it to its Kashmir obsession. In the 90s, since terrorism was only killing Indians and not *****, nobody else cared, so Pakistan kept training scores of young men and creating the hizbs and lashkars all over. Results are there for all to see. The USA didn't force Pakistan to play the mujahideen game in the 1990s, they had stopped caring about Af-Pak once the Soviets withdrew. An honest student of history would accept this key fact, instead of making excuses and false propaganda, ironically which you in turn accuse others of.

  10. #10
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    Imran Khan just burnt any lines he could have opened with India if he is elected PM of Pakistan.

    IK ia dreaming if he thinks the stance in India will change if Modi goes. The govt that changes the stance will change.

    Unless there is a change in Pakistan's stance regsrding support to the likes of Hafiz Saeed there is going to be no change in Indian stand.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Imran Khan just burnt any lines he could have opened with India if he is elected PM of Pakistan.

    IK ia dreaming if he thinks the stance in India will change if Modi goes. The govt that changes the stance will change.

    Unless there is a change in Pakistan's stance regsrding support to the likes of Hafiz Saeed there is going to be no change in Indian stand.
    There are no lines to burn. Indian government knows now that there is no point in talking to any of these Pakistani "leaders". They are monkeys on a string that is controlled by PakMil. If PakMil wants, they can get any leader exiled or jailed or banned by a court. No agreement signed by these leaders has been honored by PakMil. Bhutto signed Shimla agreement in 1971 agreeing to LOC as border. He was executed. Nawaz Sharif signed Lahore declaration before the Kargil war, and ended up overthrown, jailed and exiled. Musharraf started the "backchannel" negotiations and the 2008 attacks happened. Ultimately, India can only make deals with PakMil - an organization that has lost but doesn't want to accept defeat against India.

    That will take time. Maybe another generation in a decade or so, and the Pak Establishment will be mentally prepared for peace. Right now they are too busy banning TV stations, ignoring Pakhtoon civil rights movements and such.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by OoparCut View Post
    There are no lines to burn. Indian government knows now that there is no point in talking to any of these Pakistani "leaders". They are monkeys on a string that is controlled by PakMil. If PakMil wants, they can get any leader exiled or jailed or banned by a court. No agreement signed by these leaders has been honored by PakMil. Bhutto signed Shimla agreement in 1971 agreeing to LOC as border. He was executed. Nawaz Sharif signed Lahore declaration before the Kargil war, and ended up overthrown, jailed and exiled. Musharraf started the "backchannel" negotiations and the 2008 attacks happened. Ultimately, India can only make deals with PakMil - an organization that has lost but doesn't want to accept defeat against India.

    That will take time. Maybe another generation in a decade or so, and the Pak Establishment will be mentally prepared for peace. Right now they are too busy banning TV stations, ignoring Pakhtoon civil rights movements and such.
    As long as Hindu extremists are getting elected in India, there will be no solution. They got elected on anti-Muslim and anti-Pakistan rhetoric.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by www787 View Post
    As long as Hindu extremists are getting elected in India, there will be no solution. They got elected on anti-Muslim and anti-Pakistan rhetoric.
    See, this statement is also flawed. I'm no Modi fan, in fact have been attacked in discussions plenty of times by his fans. But the only reason he was able to get elected, is because he was seen as a guy who can deliver economic progress. The anti-muslim stuff doesn't really work in majority of India. Are there geographic pockets where it does work? Yes, I'm neither naive, nor uninformed to be unaware of it. But to be honest, you guys do seem to have an overblown and confused understanding of India and its politics.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by OoparCut View Post
    There are no lines to burn. Indian government knows now that there is no point in talking to any of these Pakistani "leaders". They are monkeys on a string that is controlled by PakMil.
    While all of this is true, it hasn't prevented idiot Indian leaders from trying the go-soft strategy. They all give it a try before they're burned and then give up. Even Modi, who talks a big game but has done squat for 4 years, invited Sharif for his swearing-in ceremony and then visited Lahore. What was he thinking? That Pak will serve him khaman-dhokla for breakfast? They gave him Gurdaspur and Pathankot as return gift.

    Despite all this, even now Sushma Swaraj is busy playing doctor/nurse for the whole world including Pakistan.

    Hats off to Pakistani leaders -- where they're ruling or in opposition, woman or man, political or military -- their hatred for India is consistent across decades. There is hardly in difference in the language used by ZAB, BB, Bilawal, Zia-Ul-Haq, Sharif, Imran Khan, Musharraf and other random military / ISI guys.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by www787 View Post
    As long as Hindu extremists are getting elected in India, there will be no solution. They got elected on anti-Muslim and anti-Pakistan rhetoric.
    If Pakistan is looking to keep up its support to the likes of Hafiz Saeed then there will be no solution ever.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by OoparCut View Post
    See, this statement is also flawed. I'm no Modi fan, in fact have been attacked in discussions plenty of times by his fans. But the only reason he was able to get elected, is because he was seen as a guy who can deliver economic progress. The anti-muslim stuff doesn't really work in majority of India. Are there geographic pockets where it does work? Yes, I'm neither naive, nor uninformed to be unaware of it. But to be honest, you guys do seem to have an overblown and confused understanding of India and its politics.
    Over blown and confused?

    Every time I get an opportunity to watch India media, you’ll hear about Pakistan, Kashmir, Muslims and Afridi. Blame your media.

    And then I watch Pakistan news media they are talking about fixing democracy and holding politician accountable.

    I never said all Hindu who voted for Modi voted for his connection with Hindu radicalized group but I’m almost 100% certain every radicalized Hindu voted for Modi.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by OoparCut View Post
    Only thing that saved Pakistan from being "bombed to the stone age", was quickly the knee was bent to Uncle Sam. Why does the US congress need to sue Pakistan when simply one threatening phone call can get the adversary to bend over and allow complete access? How many Pakistanis have been murdered by US drones since then? And that too with the permission and encouragement of the "leaders" of Pakistan.

    More Powerful?? Blatant lies?

    Sure. Whatever floats your boat. Take a big deep drag of that alternate reality. You might need to take a few more if you want to take your mind away from the actual one.
    This doesn't even make sense. If Pakistan is so quick to "bend over and allow complete access" to America, why would they ever be in danger of being bombed back to the stone age? You need to let go of whatever issues you have and look at the situation with a cooler head. That way at least you might come up with a theory which is consistent.


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

  18. #18
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    He was right from day one. This never was our war!

  19. #19
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    For children who are not aware of 'history':

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...2/pakistan.usa

    The Bush administration threatened to bomb Pakistan "back to the stone age" after the September 11 attacks if the country did not cooperate with America's war on Afghanistan, it emerged yesterday.
    In an interview to be aired on CBS television this weekend Pakistan's president, General Pervez Musharraf, said the threat was delivered by the assistant secretary of state, Richard Armitage, in conversations with Pakistan's intelligence director.

    "The intelligence director told me that (Mr Armitage) said, 'Be prepared to be bombed. Be prepared to go back to the stone age'," Gen Musharraf was quoted as saying. The revelation that the US used extreme pressure to secure Pakistan's cooperation in the war on terror arrived at a time of renewed unease in the US about its frontline ally.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by OoparCut View Post
    For children who are not aware of 'history':

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...2/pakistan.usa
    Oh child of history,

    This has been denied by the man himself, Richard Armitage.

    http://www.nbcnews.com/id/14943975/n...akistan-after/

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by sshakir411 View Post
    Oh child of history,

    This has been denied by the man himself, Richard Armitage.

    http://www.nbcnews.com/id/14943975/n...akistan-after/
    So according to you, Musharraf lied? You believe neo-con Richard Armitage over him?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by OoparCut View Post
    So according to you, Musharraf lied? You believe neo-con Richard Armitage over him?
    This is a case of he said, she said. Musharraf never spoke to Richard Armitage (fact)....he heard from somebody that this is what was said....

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by OoparCut View Post
    Pakistan didn't have "nothing" to do with 9/11. The ecosystem of "non state actors and organizations that was created and existed all through the 1990s, primarily created and nourished by Pakistan, is where the plot for 9/11 was conceived and operationalized.

    There's a reason why nobody outside of Pakistan buys the Pakistani narrative of victimhood. Because its false and self-serving.
    very rich from indian, you just sound like the guy asking afridi to condemn hafiz seed

  24. #24
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    Pakistan has been playing a double game for very long. Harbouring terrorists such as OBL and giving them safe havens, selling nuclear weapon know-how (stolen) to rougue states. IK is accurate with his statement though - US has had its own interests to protect Pakistan but now when the interests are over it is treating it only as a tissue paper..

  25. #25
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    hindu nationalist who are pedophiles should be reported, **** wont be tolerated here!

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by sshakir411 View Post
    This is a case of he said, she said. Musharraf never spoke to Richard Armitage (fact)....he heard from somebody that this is what was said....
    Whether those exact words were spoken aloud or not, bottomline reality doesn't change does it. Everybody knows exactly what Pakistan was doing with "non state actors" before 9/11. And why and how they agreed to let the US do what it wants after 9/11. The only difference is that they are still trying to play the "good taliban, bad taliban" game, and the "good terrorist, bad terrorist game". Now that the world is aware of the dangers and risks that they face due to such shenanigans, the tolerance for such game playing as national policy doesn't exist like it did in the 1990s. And now that the US doesn't really need Pakistan for access to Afghanistan anymore, since it doesn't really want to be there long-term, the results are there for all to see.

    Its good that PakMil has found new Uncle Cheen to sub in for Uncle Sam. Although this Uncle doesn't give "coalition support funds". It gives loans at commercial rates. And takes naval bases as collateral. But as long as the fantasy of "countering India" can be kept alive, anything and everything is acceptable.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by sshakir411 View Post
    This is a case of he said, she said. Musharraf never spoke to Richard Armitage (fact)....he heard from somebody that this is what was said....
    And you still didn't answer the question. Are you claiming that Musharraf lied?

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by OoparCut View Post
    There are no lines to burn. Indian government knows now that there is no point in talking to any of these Pakistani "leaders". They are monkeys on a string that is controlled by PakMil. If PakMil wants, they can get any leader exiled or jailed or banned by a court. No agreement signed by these leaders has been honored by PakMil. Bhutto signed Shimla agreement in 1971 agreeing to LOC as border. He was executed. Nawaz Sharif signed Lahore declaration before the Kargil war, and ended up overthrown, jailed and exiled. Musharraf started the "backchannel" negotiations and the 2008 attacks happened. Ultimately, India can only make deals with PakMil - an organization that has lost but doesn't want to accept defeat against India.

    That will take time. Maybe another generation in a decade or so, and the Pak Establishment will be mentally prepared for peace. Right now they are too busy banning TV stations, ignoring Pakhtoon civil rights movements and such.
    that was the lesson learnt by Vajpayi and later re-learnt by Modi.. I am sure more leaders in India, egged by their liberal agenda, will learn the same lessons. IK seems to be highly power hungry and will do anything to get to that chair.. All options are being used including, Military, courts, etc to ensure IK comes to power.. But what he does not realize or chooses not to acknowledge is that he himself is hte tissue paper to PakMil the same way he is accusing US. The day PakMil thinks there is someone else who will do their job better, he will go either to jail or wherever else they want him to go

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gubol123 View Post
    that was the lesson learnt by Vajpayi and later re-learnt by Modi.. I am sure more leaders in India, egged by their liberal agenda, will learn the same lessons. IK seems to be highly power hungry and will do anything to get to that chair.. All options are being used including, Military, courts, etc to ensure IK comes to power.. But what he does not realize or chooses not to acknowledge is that he himself is hte tissue paper to PakMil the same way he is accusing US. The day PakMil thinks there is someone else who will do their job better, he will go either to jail or wherever else they want him to go
    Imran has made many compromises because he believes that he can lead his country in the right direction, and that the ends justify the means.

    It looks like he may end up getting his chance at "leadership". Nothing much can change as far as Pak foreign policy is concerned. Any politician who gets "elected" can limit himself to administering local stuff.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by BreadPakoda View Post
    Pakistan has been playing a double game for very long. Harbouring terrorists such as OBL and giving them safe havens, selling nuclear weapon know-how (stolen) to rougue states. IK is accurate with his statement though - US has had its own interests to protect Pakistan but now when the interests are over it is treating it only as a tissue paper..
    Yes mate, Pakistan has been playing a double game since day dot, we all know how Gandhi was duped by a sly of hand in 1947, right?


    Few individuals significantly alter the course of history. Fewer still modify the map of the world. Hardly anyone can be credited with creating a nation-state. Mohammad Ali Jinnah did all three.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by OoparCut View Post
    Whether those exact words were spoken aloud or not, bottomline reality doesn't change does it. Everybody knows exactly what Pakistan was doing with "non state actors" before 9/11. And why and how they agreed to let the US do what it wants after 9/11. The only difference is that they are still trying to play the "good taliban, bad taliban" game, and the "good terrorist, bad terrorist game". Now that the world is aware of the dangers and risks that they face due to such shenanigans, the tolerance for such game playing as national policy doesn't exist like it did in the 1990s. And now that the US doesn't really need Pakistan for access to Afghanistan anymore, since it doesn't really want to be there long-term, the results are there for all to see.

    Its good that PakMil has found new Uncle Cheen to sub in for Uncle Sam. Although this Uncle doesn't give "coalition support funds". It gives loans at commercial rates. And takes naval bases as collateral. But as long as the fantasy of "countering India" can be kept alive, anything and everything is acceptable.
    Evidence or this is just one of your many cooked up Indian theories.....

  32. #32
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    Stick to the topic. Deletions will follow soon.


    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gubol123 View Post
    of course he will deny.. which bully will accept he bullied others.. He obviously will deny it as he cannot go back to congress and confirm that they used bullying tactics..
    That does not make that claim true.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sshakir411 View Post
    That does not make that claim true.
    So if the claim is not true, then are you claiming that "General/President" Musharraf lied? To the press, to his own military, to his own people?

  35. #35
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    Great read. IK is spot on, Pakistan owes nothing to America, it has been involved in a war which wasn't Pakistans war.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by OoparCut View Post
    So if the claim is not true, then are you claiming that "General/President" Musharraf lied? To the press, to his own military, to his own people?
    Post 22. Thanks.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    This doesn't even make sense. If Pakistan is so quick to "bend over and allow complete access" to America, why would they ever be in danger of being bombed back to the stone age? You need to let go of whatever issues you have and look at the situation with a cooler head. That way at least you might come up with a theory which is consistent.
    Hmm. Let's do a little exercise. We probably don't need this he-said-she-said between Armitage and Musharraf.

    You read IK's interview posted here and responded with - "good interview as always by IK".

    In this very interview, the Great Leader asserted that US is using Pak as a tissue paper (headline of this thread).

    So unless you're telling us that you disagree with the Great Leader materially, we have to assume that you're broadly in sync with his assertions.

    You can of course still disagree with him (or agree partially), but do let us know if you do, and on what issues.

    Thank you.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    Great read. IK is spot on, Pakistan owes nothing to America, it has been involved in a war which wasn't Pakistans war.
    If it's not Pak's war, what's stopping Pak from showing the middle finger to Uncle Sam and ask them to get their assets out of Pak? Should be pretty straightforward, no? Especially when China fully supports Pak on everything.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by English August View Post
    If it's not Pak's war, what's stopping Pak from showing the middle finger to Uncle Sam and ask them to get their assets out of Pak? Should be pretty straightforward, no? Especially when China fully supports Pak on everything.
    Corrupt leaders and officials. They knew the US would feed them $'s for years which has been the case.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by English August View Post
    Hmm. Let's do a little exercise. We probably don't need this he-said-she-said between Armitage and Musharraf.

    You read IK's interview posted here and responded with - "good interview as always by IK".

    In this very interview, the Great Leader asserted that US is using Pak as a tissue paper (headline of this thread).

    So unless you're telling us that you disagree with the Great Leader materially, we have to assume that you're broadly in sync with his assertions.

    You can of course still disagree with him (or agree partially), but do let us know if you do, and on what issues.

    Thank you.
    I said it's a great read, what is it you are confused about? Did you want me to stand up and salute the chand tara or something?


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    I said it's a great read, what is it you are confused about? Did you want me to stand up and salute the chand tara or something?
    That's up to you.

    Since you're ducking around the issue, let's ask this directly. Your Great Leader said US is treating Pak like a tissue. Do you agree with him or disagree?

  42. #42
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    Great interview from IK as usual. insha'Allah the in coming prime minister of Pakistan in 2018.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by www787 View Post
    Over blown and confused?

    Every time I get an opportunity to watch India media, you’ll hear about Pakistan, Kashmir, Muslims and Afridi. Blame your media.

    And then I watch Pakistan news media they are talking about fixing democracy and holding politician accountable.

    I never said all Hindu who voted for Modi voted for his connection with Hindu radicalized group but I’m almost 100% certain every radicalized Hindu voted for Modi.

    100% Agree!!

    I criticise Pakistani media a lot but they are way way more mature and responsible than India.
    India hardly ever gets discussed other than cross border firing or if Afghan war is discussed but that is probably 5% of talkshows and even when there is discussion, it's always about "how we can improve relations with India".
    In India though, "inko sabaq sikhao, maar dou , cheen lou, bomb gira dou" The kind of hysteria they have created in India is mind boggling, maybe Pakistan's hatred keeps them united but surely sooner or later they will explode with this mentality.

  44. #44
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    Fourth bhabhi?The interviewer seems to be drooling over ‘handsome’ and ‘charismatic’ Imran Khan.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Imran Khan just burnt any lines he could have opened with India if he is elected PM of Pakistan.

    IK ia dreaming if he thinks the stance in India will change if Modi goes. The govt that changes the stance will change.

    Unless there is a change in Pakistan's stance regsrding support to the likes of Hafiz Saeed there is going to be no change in Indian stand.
    When Modi became Prime Minister, Imran Khan said all the nice things for him knowing well his history of being a fundamentalist. He said that he is a self made person who isn't corrupt and hopefully will work with Pakistan for better relations and with Nawaz Sharif as PM, India had absolutely no excuse to adopt aggressive approach.
    Modi unlike Vajpayee was more interested in pleasing his RSS fanatics and on hand he would talk about peace and within couple of days, he would go to Bangladesh and celebrate India's role of sponsoring terrorism in Pakistan creating.

    Forget Pakistan, even Indians know (hard for them to admit here) Modi's fanatic attitude and RSS pleasing policies have taken India backward with new controversies surfacing everyday. Extremists like Yogi as CM of UP is one big example.

  46. #46
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    This is what caught my eye:

    ++
    SS:So the loss of the U.S. aid may not be a catastrophe for your country, but now Americans are considering provisionally putting Pakistan on the international terrorism sponsor list, the so-called gray list. You may think it is not fair to Pakistan, but how damaging and dangerous would that be for the country?

    IK: I think, it’s very unfair to Pakistan, you know, a country that participated in the U.S. war, and I repeat, a country that had nothing to do with 9/11, and a country that lost more people than any other country. I mean, Pakistan lost more human beings, almost 70,000 dead, vast number of them were handicapped because of bomb blasts, for helping the Americans, for joining the American war, it brought the heaviest cost. And at the end the Americans today blame Pakistan and put sanctions against it, I think, this is the greatest travesty of justice. I think, you know, it is something which is inconceivable that the U.S. would blame Pakistan for its failure in Afghanistan.

    SS:But how damaging would it be though?

    IK: Well, it will be damaging. I mean, for Pakistan, unfortunately, the economic situation is not that strong right now. The country is actually going through an economic crisis. So American sanctions would be damaging. But I mean, is this justice? Is it fair? Is this how the U.S. would use a country like a tissue paper and when it thinks it doesn’t need it anymore it just casts it away? I think it’s very immoral.
    Read more at http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/sh...4lljuL3Tkpr.99

    ++

    I wonder what the keyboard warriors who were telling us that FATF grey-listing is nothing to worry about and Pak doesn't need US aid will have to say about this.

    Thoughts?

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waseem View Post
    When Modi became Prime Minister, Imran Khan said all the nice things for him knowing well his history of being a fundamentalist. He said that he is a self made person who isn't corrupt and hopefully will work with Pakistan for better relations and with Nawaz Sharif as PM, India had absolutely no excuse to adopt aggressive approach.
    Modi unlike Vajpayee was more interested in pleasing his RSS fanatics and on hand he would talk about peace and within couple of days, he would go to Bangladesh and celebrate India's role of sponsoring terrorism in Pakistan creating.

    Forget Pakistan, even Indians know (hard for them to admit here) Modi's fanatic attitude and RSS pleasing policies have taken India backward with new controversies surfacing everyday. Extremists like Yogi as CM of UP is one big example.
    1. Modi went out of his way to visit Pakistan. 1st Indian PM since Vajpayee to do so. But we got Pathankot and Uri in return. Its pretty clear its useless engaging with a state that believes in bleeding you.

    2. Making poor remarks on Indian PM by foreigners be it any PM Modi Vajpayee Manmohan anyone is considered a affront to the Post of the Indian PM. Imran Khan can do what he wishes in Pakistan, he will have no ears in India.

    Yogi,Modi, RSS are India's internal matters and unlike few other countries poking noses in our internal matters is a no no. Indians will choose whoever they like as their leader, foreigners can engage or not engage with him, we dont care. By the looks of it almost everyone has laid out the red carpet for Modi. So if Islamabad has a issue, well have a issue.

    4. Let Indians decide what Modi has done. Some of you have a strange habit of speaking for people of other nationalities.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    1. Modi went out of his way to visit Pakistan. 1st Indian PM since Vajpayee to do so. But we got Pathankot and Uri in return. Its pretty clear its useless engaging with a state that believes in bleeding you.

    2. Making poor remarks on Indian PM by foreigners be it any PM Modi Vajpayee Manmohan anyone is considered a affront to the Post of the Indian PM. Imran Khan can do what he wishes in Pakistan, he will have no ears in India.

    Yogi,Modi, RSS are India's internal matters and unlike few other countries poking noses in our internal matters is a no no. Indians will choose whoever they like as their leader, foreigners can engage or not engage with him, we dont care. By the looks of it almost everyone has laid out the red carpet for Modi. So if Islamabad has a issue, well have a issue.

    4. Let Indians decide what Modi has done. Some of you have a strange habit of speaking for people of other nationalities.
    Yogi, Modi and RSS could be India's internal matters but they represent a trend and mentality. If this mentality can affect Indians then you can imagine how their attitude and mentality impacts India - Pakistan relations.

    No one knows why Modi came to Pakistan so won't read too much into that, he was talking rubbish about Pakistan while he was in Afghanistan before his stopover so actions speak louder than words. Whether we like Nawaz Sharif or not (for his corruption and incompetence) but he never said a word against India but Modi was talking non stop rubbish (to please his Hinduvta brigade) and all his focus has been on isolating Pakistan.

  49. #49
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    Obviously Imran is right, but I guarantee that when he comes to power in a few months there will be no change in US policy. Drone strikes will not stop, talks for additional F-16s will continue, and every now and then the US will throw a bone by transferring some "aid".

    All of these things are baked into several aspects of Pakistan's economy, and it will take more than one man to change that.

  50. #50
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    Don’t know why but I am more worried about China now...


    Ki Mohammad (saw) sey wafa tu ney tou hum terey hain
    Yeh jahaan cheez kya hai Loh-o-Qalam tere hain

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by IAJ View Post
    Don’t know why but I am more worried about China now...
    This.

    With US you extract can your pound of flesh but with Chinese nothing works,No bargaining just follow.

  52. #52
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    What about Billions of dollars extracted from US, Imran?

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waseem View Post
    Yogi, Modi and RSS could be India's internal matters but they represent a trend and mentality. If this mentality can affect Indians then you can imagine how their attitude and mentality impacts India - Pakistan relations.

    No one knows why Modi came to Pakistan so won't read too much into that, he was talking rubbish about Pakistan while he was in Afghanistan before his stopover so actions speak louder than words. Whether we like Nawaz Sharif or not (for his corruption and incompetence) but he never said a word against India but Modi was talking non stop rubbish (to please his Hinduvta brigade) and all his focus has been on isolating Pakistan.
    Modi visited Pakistan within 18 months of his election so yes action speaks louder than words. He was criticised heavily for it in India after Pathankot happened. He even allowed Pakistani authorities to come and investigate in Pathankot. Nothing happened from the Pakistani side. Then after few months Uri happened. Even now the opposition take shots at him for visiting Pakistan.

    What do you expect Modi to do in these circumstances? He has to act in a different way. He tried to be friendly got stabbed now he has taken the other approach. He has to think whats good for his country.

    Modi's policy vis a vis Pakistani state dont confuse it with the country but the state has wide spread acceptance in the country. Its clear Pakistani state doesnot want peace with India and is engaged in supporting armed secessionist movement in India. How can there be peace? A time comes when retaliation is the only option left.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Modi visited Pakistan within 18 months of his election so yes action speaks louder than words. He was criticised heavily for it in India after Pathankot happened. He even allowed Pakistani authorities to come and investigate in Pathankot. Nothing happened from the Pakistani side. Then after few months Uri happened. Even now the opposition take shots at him for visiting Pakistan.

    What do you expect Modi to do in these circumstances? He has to act in a different way. He tried to be friendly got stabbed now he has taken the other approach. He has to think whats good for his country.

    Modi's policy vis a vis Pakistani state dont confuse it with the country but the state has wide spread acceptance in the country. Its clear Pakistani state doesnot want peace with India and is engaged in supporting armed secessionist movement in India. How can there be peace? A time comes when retaliation is the only option left.
    Problem is we never know who manages power in Pakistan at any time,Army or Politicians.I guess US mostly dealt with Pakistani Army rather than politicians.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by OoparCut View Post
    This "alternate" history sells well in Pakistan, and on this board. But it aint reality. Go check who wired $90,000 dollars from Karachi to Mohammed Atta a few days before 9/11. KSM - the Pakistan born Kuwaiti, was instrumental in the 9/11 plot.

    Sure, those mujahideen were anti-soviet fighters. In the 1980s. Pakistan tried to duplicate the mujahideen method and apply it to its Kashmir obsession. In the 90s, since terrorism was only killing Indians and not *****, nobody else cared, so Pakistan kept training scores of young men and creating the hizbs and lashkars all over. Results are there for all to see. The USA didn't force Pakistan to play the mujahideen game in the 1990s, they had stopped caring about Af-Pak once the Soviets withdrew. An honest student of history would accept this key fact, instead of making excuses and false propaganda, ironically which you in turn accuse others of.
    oh here we go another one to deal with. Every year a new one comes along with his Propaganda and Pakistan book under one arm and his I know better because the "world" think pakistanis are terrorists under another arm.

    Firstly there is no real evidence to back up the Mohammed atta wire transfer claim. No real hard evidence. Yes there are rumours, statements and even some supposed witnesses but nothing that can stand up to real scrutiny.

    Secondly you cannot deny the fact that AQ planned and concocted the 9/11 op in europe. Nothing to do with Pakistan. No matter how hard the RSS Munshi's in India try there damndest to protray us as something we are not.

    Thirdly You are mixing two separate events up as is the usual Indian troll method. The soviet's were defeated by the mujahideen with the support of the US and Pakistan. But as is chronicled in Brigadier Yusufs book "the bear trap" the majority of the running around, operational activity, planning and general ground work was done by Pakistan. Coming onto your eternal bug bear Kashmir. Yes we did move those mujahideen into the Kashmir theatre. Perhaps this was a mistake. Perhaps we should have disbanded them and given them jobs in the vibrant economy of afghanistan. Oh wait that wouldnt have been possible because afghanistan collapsed into anarchy and we were left to pick up the pieces of the mess. It was a good way to fight you on your soil and it continues to bog down a large force that would otherwise be deployed against us on our borders. India's desire to become a regional policeman and world power is now stuck in the streets of Srinagar and will remain so until your leadership shows some vision.

    The US did force us to play the game in the 1990's because they left us with their mess. It was an existential problem that we dealt with in the only way we knew. An honest student of history would understand what the realities on the ground were, and accept their own country's nefarious role in South Asia before lecturing others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mankuTimma View Post
    Problem is we never know who manages power in Pakistan at any time,Army or Politicians.I guess US mostly dealt with Pakistani Army rather than politicians.
    thats just an excuse. You have studied us for over 60 years, and have lived with us for longer. You know full well the geopolitical situation in Pakistan as we do in India. These are just excuses to fool the public. India doesn't want to talk at the moment even when it is in its interest to do so. We are in a constant existential battle hence why at times we may do things that are unpalatable for other countries that are not in such a situation. Its is unfortunate but India can relieve this inecurity in a blink of an eye if it wishes. It does not wish it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by the Great Khan View Post
    thats just an excuse. You have studied us for over 60 years, and have lived with us for longer. You know full well the geopolitical situation in Pakistan as we do in India. These are just excuses to fool the public. India doesn't want to talk at the moment even when it is in its interest to do so. We are in a constant existential battle hence why at times we may do things that are unpalatable for other countries that are not in such a situation. Its is unfortunate but India can relieve this inecurity in a blink of an eye if it wishes. It does not wish it.
    What study? If at any given time who controls Pakistan is not known then no amount discussion going to help.India will deal only with Pakistani Government not army.So if your Army undermines Govt time to time nothing can be done.We can have peace for few years but problem will start again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    Obviously Imran is right, but I guarantee that when he comes to power in a few months there will be no change in US policy. Drone strikes will not stop, talks for additional F-16s will continue, and every now and then the US will throw a bone by transferring some "aid".

    All of these things are baked into several aspects of Pakistan's economy, and it will take more than one man to change that.
    US policy is on a ventilator in Pakistan at the moment. things are moving so quickly the US is finding it difficult to keep up. US aid is now irrelevant, military equipment is still a carrot but ultimately the refusal to give us any new f16's means we are pushing through our fall back strategy. More JF17's and a possible another 4th gen fighter aircraft on the horizon. The biggest leverage the US has is through the IMF and our traitorous politicians. But as we can see that path is also fast diminishing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mankuTimma View Post
    What study? If at any given time who controls Pakistan is not known then no amount discussion going to help.India will deal only with Pakistani Government not army.So if your Army undermines Govt time to time nothing can be done.We can have peace for few years but problem will start again.
    Your government is not lead by idiots. You spend more time studying us than we you. So dont give me this innocent "we are stupid and no nothing" nonsense. Your not children and have a well established diplomatic and media arm that is well versed in Pakistan policy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by the Great Khan View Post
    Your government is not lead by idiots. You spend more time studying us than we you. So dont give me this innocent "we are stupid and no nothing" nonsense. Your not children and have a well established diplomatic and media arm that is well versed in Pakistan policy.
    Why should we spend our energy studying your various power structures.We don't even need to have any relation ship, just stay neutral.Problem solved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mankuTimma View Post
    Why should we spend our energy studying your various power structures.We don't even need to have any relation ship, just stay neutral.Problem solved.
    then your are a simpleton who doesnt understand how this works. Every govt studies their adversary and even their friends. Thats why you have think tanks and strategists. As well as academics. They help shape govt policy. India has a well known academic tradition when it comes to studying pakistan. professors write books, think tanks write papers, govts create policy and so forth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by English August View Post
    That's up to you.

    Since you're ducking around the issue, let's ask this directly. Your Great Leader said US is treating Pak like a tissue. Do you agree with him or disagree?
    If you'd read any of my previous posts on US/Pakistan relations I have often described Pakistan as USA's proxy in the region, one of the reasons why I don't think they'll turn their back on Pakistan in a hurry. It gives the US a staging post in the region to keep China and India in check. Does that answer your question?


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    Quote Originally Posted by mankuTimma View Post
    What about Billions of dollars extracted from US, Imran?
    Lol this is exactly what the interview was about, why are you asking if you didn't bother watching?

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    @MenInG i think the title can be changed to "US aid can't compensate for damage done to Pakistan during war on terror in Afghanistan – Imran Khan"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mian View Post
    @MenInG i think the title can be changed to "US aid can't compensate for damage done to Pakistan during war on terror in Afghanistan – Imran Khan"
    US aid can't compensate for the damage to Pakistan, but it can probably compensate certain politicians or other individuals quite well I would think.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    US aid can't compensate for the damage to Pakistan, but it can probably compensate certain politicians or other individuals quite well I would think.
    true

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    Quote Originally Posted by saeedhk View Post
    Fourth bhabhi?The interviewer seems to be drooling over ‘handsome’ and ‘charismatic’ Imran Khan.
    She gained 10k twitter followers in 24 hours lol from 11k to 21k. Even recorded a thank you video

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    If you'd read any of my previous posts on US/Pakistan relations I have often described Pakistan as USA's proxy in the region, one of the reasons why I don't think they'll turn their back on Pakistan in a hurry. It gives the US a staging post in the region to keep China and India in check. Does that answer your question?
    It doesn't. But never mind. I can understand why you'd not want to answer a simple question directly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Waseem View Post
    Lol this is exactly what the interview was about, why are you asking if you didn't bother watching?
    But Imran is mostly blaming US than looking into how the aid money is used by Army/Politicisns.Why shift entire blame to US when Pakistanis themselves allowed US to do whatever in return for money?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mian View Post

    I watched the interview last night , IK was saying what we have heard before but the interviewer was licking her lips, playing with her hair and flicking her eyelashes


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

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    Quote Originally Posted by mankuTimma View Post
    But Imran is mostly blaming US than looking into how the aid money is used by Army/Politicisns.Why shift entire blame to US when Pakistanis themselves allowed US to do whatever in return for money?
    With all due respect I think you should read the interview again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    I watched the interview last night , IK was saying what we have heard before but the interviewer was licking her lips, playing with her hair and flicking her eyelashes
    haha and how is 65 years lol so one can imagine how many fell for him when he was in his 30s

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