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  1. #1
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    Syria "gas attack" Truth

    As Allah has said, falsehood will perish against the truth and slowly it unleashes itself.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-a8307726.html

    Article by Robert Fisk on the real ground story of Douma.

    I hope this doesn't get merged into the other thread and lost among all the rubbish.

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    There is ample evidence that the *White Helmets* have staged and concocted evidence, not just of this suspected chemical attack, but past attacks in Syria.

    It's sickening, and the only winner here is Israel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by barah_admi View Post
    As Allah has said, falsehood will perish against the truth and slowly it unleashes itself.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-a8307726.html

    Article by Robert Fisk on the real ground story of Douma.

    I hope this doesn't get merged into the other thread and lost among all the rubbish.
    Thanks for sharing 'barah-admi'.

    Teresa May to Trump is what blair was for Bush, a pet who jumps when asked to jump! A staunch conservative, this woman will drive me towards Corbyn.

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    Quote Originally Posted by R3verse Swing View Post
    There is ample evidence that the *White Helmets* have staged and concocted evidence, not just of this suspected chemical attack, but past attacks in Syria.

    It's sickening, and the only winner here is Israel.
    The winner is Israel...that is quite literally the point. There is no secret that the destruction of Muslim nations has been the US' method of helping Israel. Hilary states as much in an email to obama "destabilise Syria...to ensure Israel's nuclear monopoly in the middle east".

    I mean, it is literally written down and people are still blind.

    this thread is the perfect example, so many arguing in favour of killing more innocent people in the other thread...yet they purposefully turn a blind eye to the truth. Disgusting.

    Quote Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
    Thanks for sharing 'barah-admi'.

    Teresa May to Trump is what blair was for Bush, a pet who jumps when asked to jump! A staunch conservative, this woman will drive me towards Corbyn.
    You should already be on Corbyn's side.

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    Quote Originally Posted by barah_admi View Post
    As Allah has said, falsehood will perish against the truth and slowly it unleashes itself.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-a8307726.html

    Article by Robert Fisk on the real ground story of Douma.

    I hope this doesn't get merged into the other thread and lost among all the rubbish.
    Trump is being forced to play the game by the Establishment. Soon after he said he would withdraw from Syria, there was a "chemical attack". The point is that using chemical weapons does not benefit Assad in a war he is already winning.

    So Trump plays the game because he doesn't want criticism that he is soft on Russia. He launches a few missiles with lots of harsh words. But my feeling is that he is still committed to withdrawing from Syria.

    Quote Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
    Thanks for sharing 'barah-admi'.

    Teresa May to Trump is what blair was for Bush, a pet who jumps when asked to jump! A staunch conservative, this woman will drive me towards Corbyn.
    Theresa May is Establishment, Trump is not. May is quite happy to continue the Syria War, or maybe as best she is indifferent. Trump wants to end it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    Trump is being forced to play the game by the Establishment. Soon after he said he would withdraw from Syria, there was a "chemical attack". The point is that using chemical weapons does not benefit Assad in a war he is already winning.

    So Trump plays the game because he doesn't want criticism that he is soft on Russia. He launches a few missiles with lots of harsh words. But my feeling is that he is still committed to withdrawing from Syria.



    Theresa May is Establishment, Trump is not. May is quite happy to continue the Syria War, or maybe as best she is indifferent. Trump wants to end it.
    the bolded part is so much true; there is no need to use chemical weapons for Assad unless Assad is a monster

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    Trump is being forced to play the game by the Establishment. Soon after he said he would withdraw from Syria, there was a "chemical attack". The point is that using chemical weapons does not benefit Assad in a war he is already winning.

    So Trump plays the game because he doesn't want criticism that he is soft on Russia. He launches a few missiles with lots of harsh words. But my feeling is that he is still committed to withdrawing from Syria.



    Theresa May is Establishment, Trump is not. May is quite happy to continue the Syria War, or maybe as best she is indifferent. Trump wants to end it.
    Trump isn't establishment? He is a rich white man, that is the definition if establishment.

    Withdrawing from Syria or whatever the policies are, are not his. Like every President in my life time, he is a CIA, NSA stooge, run by the backing of trillionaire bank moguls such as the Rockefellers and the Rothschilds. But that is entirely different to the discussion here, which is that western foreign policy is being built on a lie.

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    Lets add some balance.




    https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/syr....co/5tvQcj1Wk4
    https://amp.theguardian.com/world/20...mpression=true
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/ampht...mpression=true

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saeed View Post
    Lets add some balance.




    https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/syr....co/5tvQcj1Wk4
    https://amp.theguardian.com/world/20...mpression=true
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/ampht...mpression=true
    Which journalists were allowed in and what are their credentials? Without knowing that there is no point in agreeing or disagreeing with Shane

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adijazz1706 View Post
    Which journalists were allowed in and what are their credentials? Without knowing that there is no point in agreeing or disagreeing with Shane
    Robert Fisk(has history of supporting Regime’s narrative), OANN(less said about them the better) and some Italian media. CBS news made it to the site too as the link provided in the post says. I am sure there are more but I don’t know their names yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saeed View Post
    Robert Fisk(has history of supporting Regime’s narrative), OANN(less said about them the better) and some Italian media. CBS news made it to the site too as the link provided in the post says. I am sure there are more but I don’t know their names yet.
    Fisk has been in the ME since the 70s and with the Indy since the 80s. He has been critical of Assad and Putin in the past and has binned the OIC a few times so he's in my good books. CBS is mainstream US journos, dunno much about OANN. Which Italian media house has access?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adijazz1706 View Post
    Fisk has been in the ME since the 70s and with the Indy since the 80s. He has been critical of Assad and Putin in the past and has binned the OIC a few times so he's in my good books. CBS is mainstream US journos, dunno much about OANN. Which Italian media house has access?
    I don’t know their name, that’s why I said some Italian media. If they can allow OANN in and then they can also allow Shane in. In the past, I am talking about recent history. So what do you think about his article, it says
    For the same 58-year old senior Syrian doctor then adds something profoundly uncomfortable: the patients, he says, were overcome not by gas but by oxygen starvation in the rubbish-filled tunnels and basements in which they lived, on a night of wind and heavy shelling that stirred up a dust storm.
    In the article he is basically relaying on the words of a person named Assim Rahaibani who refers to the rebels as terrorists. Should a journalist of Fisk’s caliber trust someone like that for giving an unbiased view? Basically if we go through his article he is saying no gas attack happened.

    CBS article doesn’t agree with his article and they were on the ground too. Who to trust? Open sources have already confirmed gas attack happened with video and photo evidence. While Regime and Russia has no official position yet, they keep changing their narrative.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saeed View Post
    Robert Fisk(has history of supporting Regime’s narrative), OANN(less said about them the better) and some Italian media. CBS news made it to the site too as the link provided in the post says. I am sure there are more but I don’t know their names yet.
    You can't trust journalists from either side. That is why you have to try to understand the situation.

    These "gas attacks" magically happen whenever Trump says he wants to withdraw. They do not benefit Assad, but do benefit the rebels in dragging the US into a war with Assad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    You can't trust journalists from either side. That is why you have to try to understand the situation.

    These "gas attacks" magically happen whenever Trump says he wants to withdraw. They do not benefit Assad, but do benefit the rebels in dragging the US into a war with Assad.
    I trust them a lot more than the people who believe in deep state conspiracy theories.

    So by using quotes you’re implying the gas attacks didn’t happen? But Russia is saying WH, Britain and US were behind the attacks. Now they have found a laboratory. Are you saying that Russia is lying?

    No they happen because Assad thinks he can get away with them. It did benefit Assad because JAI withdrew from Douma after the gas attack. Otherwise militarily JAI is one of the most competent rebel group and they would have inflicted huge damage on the Regime in form of material and manpower. Yes Regime would have still won but at a great cost.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saeed View Post
    I trust them a lot more than the people who believe in deep state conspiracy theories.

    So by using quotes you’re implying the gas attacks didn’t happen? But Russia is saying WH, Britain and US were behind the attacks. Now they have found a laboratory. Are you saying that Russia is lying?

    No they happen because Assad thinks he can get away with them. It did benefit Assad because JAI withdrew from Douma after the gas attack. Otherwise militarily JAI is one of the most competent rebel group and they would have inflicted huge damage on the Regime in form of material and manpower. Yes Regime would have still won but at a great cost.
    You seem determined to believe in the media narrative, good for you I guess. As far as the deep state goes, ask yourself why changes in the US or presidency only affect domestic policy and foreign policy remains the same

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    Why is so much of our modern political discourse dominated by such binary thinking ?

    I'm against the overthrow of Assad's government as I don't want to see the black flag of Al Nusra and ISIS flying over Damascus and another failed state emerge in the Middle East, and oppose any attempts by the West to bring this about regardless of whether Assad used chemical weapons or not. These air strikes by Trump, May and Macron are illegal and was done without consent of their respective Parliaments.

    However that does not make Assad a saint whose crimes are all mere fabrications by the media. Is the UN and OPCW part of the "deep state conspiracy" when they confirmed Assad used chemical weapons in Khan Sheikhoun last year ? The famous Iraq weapons inspector Hans Blix who OPPOSED the Iraq war and faced down pressure from the Bush-Cheney Administration also confirmed chemical weapons were used by Assad's forces or is he on the CIA payroll too ? The UN have also confirmed Assad's forces have illegally detained and tortured peaceful opposition activists, besieged Palestinian refugee camp in Yarmouk, starved civilian population centres and has bombed civilian infrastructure such as agricultural and water facilities.

    In your rightful opposition to western military intervention in Syria, please don't resort to atrocity denial to defend Assad who's a war criminal by every definition and twist the facts to fit your ideologies.

  17. #17
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    Excellent post @Markhor.

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    The point is not what Assad is, the point is Western media lies, has been caught lying, and the sheeple will continue to buy their false narrative.

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    Former head of British Armed Forces gets cut off by Sky when he goes off script on Syria!



    The worrying aspect is people still believe Western governments and media speak 100% truth.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saeed View Post
    So by using quotes you’re implying the gas attacks didn’t happen? But Russia is saying WH, Britain and US were behind the attacks. Now they have found a laboratory. Are you saying that Russia is lying?
    I would like to see a source for the claim that Russia said Britain and the US are behind the attacks. The most probable explanation is that the attacks have been carried out by the rebels to drag the US into the war on their side.

    No they happen because Assad thinks he can get away with them.
    Assad is not stupid. From past experience he knows that allegations of chemical attacks lead to US attacks on him. The US is powerful enough to cause him serious damage.

    It did benefit Assad because JAI withdrew from Douma after the gas attack. Otherwise militarily JAI is one of the most competent rebel group and they would have inflicted huge damage on the Regime in form of material and manpower. Yes Regime would have still won but at a great cost.
    JAI withdrew because it lost militarily, with a lot of damage caused by the Russian air force.


    Quote Originally Posted by Adijazz1706 View Post
    You seem determined to believe in the media narrative, good for you I guess. As far as the deep state goes, ask yourself why changes in the US or presidency only affect domestic policy and foreign policy remains the same
    Yes, an odd refusal to think about the issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    Is the UN and OPCW part of the "deep state conspiracy" when they confirmed Assad used chemical weapons in Khan Sheikhoun last year? The famous Iraq weapons inspector Hans Blix who OPPOSED the Iraq war and faced down pressure from the Bush-Cheney Administration also confirmed chemical weapons were used by Assad's forces or is he on the CIA payroll too?
    Think for a moment. A rocket with chemical weapons, or a chemical bomb goes off in a Damascus suburb. Does the UN have a time machine that they can go back and identify where the rocket came from? There are enough captured armaments available to both sides to make it impossible to identify the perpetrators.

    In your rightful opposition to western military intervention in Syria, please don't resort to atrocity denial to defend Assad who's a war criminal by every definition and twist the facts to fit your ideologies.
    Yes, Assad is a war criminal like all other dictators in that part of the world. It is just that he is a bit more civilized than Al Nusra and ISIS (as you yourself noted). I am not denying that Assad is a war criminal. I am only saying he is not stupid enough to want to draw the US into the war when he is already winning.

    I am not saying that we should believe the rebels, or the Western media or Assad. All have shown themselves capable of lying. In this situation, the best I can do is to analyze which side a particular action benefits.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    I would like to see a source for the claim that Russia said Britain and the US are behind the attacks. The most probable explanation is that the attacks have been carried out by the rebels to drag the US into the war on their side.



    Assad is not stupid. From past experience he knows that allegations of chemical attacks lead to US attacks on him. The US is powerful enough to cause him serious damage.



    JAI withdrew because it lost militarily, with a lot of damage caused by the Russian air force.




    Yes, an odd refusal to think about the issues.



    Think for a moment. A rocket with chemical weapons, or a chemical bomb goes off in a Damascus suburb. Does the UN have a time machine that they can go back and identify where the rocket came from? There are enough captured armaments available to both sides to make it impossible to identify the perpetrators.



    Yes, Assad is a war criminal like all other dictators in that part of the world. It is just that he is a bit more civilized than Al Nusra and ISIS (as you yourself noted). I am not denying that Assad is a war criminal. I am only saying he is not stupid enough to want to draw the US into the war when he is already winning.

    I am not saying that we should believe the rebels, or the Western media or Assad. All have shown themselves capable of lying. In this situation, the best I can do is to analyze which side a particular action benefits.
    Nail, meet hammerhead. Nothing much needs to be added

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adijazz1706 View Post
    Nail, meet hammerhead. Nothing much needs to be added
    So no gas attack happened, no victims, nothing? Be sure to apply this who does it benefit logic to other issues, especially the ones in India. It’s shocking how some people are indulging in denialism, imagine if some Indians did the same about Kashmir or similar issues.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    I'm against the overthrow of Assad's government as I don't want to see the black flag of Al Nusra and ISIS flying over Damascus and another failed state emerge in the Middle East, and oppose any attempts by the West to bring this about regardless of whether Assad used chemical weapons or not. These air strikes by Trump, May and Macron are illegal and was done without consent of their respective Parliaments.
    You think the attack was illegal because it was done without consent? The attacks were NOT illegal. Firstly, US President is the Commander in Chief, he doesn't need consent. UK PM, under the Royal prerogative powers, the Government can declare war and deploy armed forces to conflicts abroad without the backing or consent of Parliament.

    https://publications.parliament.uk/p.../236/23603.htm

    However, the legality of the attacks is neither here nor there, since you missed out the most important element of your point, EVIDENCE! There is no proof that Assad was behind the chemical attacks. In fact, the OPCW inspectors are investigating Douma AFTER the USA, UK, and France launched their missiles. Waa ji waa! Bomb first, then question later without any evidence or proof. Then you wonder why society is in a binary state of thought!

    Your narrative of Assad being an evil person etc, yes great! But it's the same narrative the West trumpet as a justification to bomb the region and its leader! If the West really cared about evil leaders, they'd be in Africa right now, starting with Zimbabwe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saeed View Post
    So no gas attack happened, no victims, nothing? Be sure to apply this who does it benefit logic to other issues, especially the ones in India. It’s shocking how some people are indulging in denialism, imagine if some Indians did the same about Kashmir or similar issues.
    Where is the evidence of the gas attack? Concrete evidence? OPCW inspectors are investigating Douma for as suspected chemical attack as we speak.

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    From Al-Jazeera

    Inspectors from the global chemical weapons watchdog have not been able to enter Syria's Douma to examine the site of a suspected gas attack, the organisation said, dismissing an earlier report circulated by Syrian state-run media.

    The Organisation for Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) said on Wednesday that United Nations security officials entered the town on Tuesday to survey the area where its fact-finding mission was supposed to probe allegations of a chemical weapons attack carried out by government forces on April 7.
    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/...155208033.html

    No one has any proof as of now.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saeed View Post
    So no gas attack happened, no victims, nothing? Be sure to apply this who does it benefit logic to other issues, especially the ones in India. It’s shocking how some people are indulging in denialism, imagine if some Indians did the same about Kashmir or similar issues.
    OPCW are Calling it a suspected attack, it hasn't been proven yet

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    I would like to see a source for the claim that Russia said Britain and the US are behind the attacks. The most probable explanation is that the attacks have been carried out by the rebels to drag the US into the war on their side.



    Assad is not stupid. From past experience he knows that allegations of chemical attacks lead to US attacks on him. The US is powerful enough to cause him serious damage.



    JAI withdrew because it lost militarily, with a lot of damage caused by the Russian air force.




    Yes, an odd refusal to think about the issues.



    Think for a moment. A rocket with chemical weapons, or a chemical bomb goes off in a Damascus suburb. Does the UN have a time machine that they can go back and identify where the rocket came from? There are enough captured armaments available to both sides to make it impossible to identify the perpetrators.



    Yes, Assad is a war criminal like all other dictators in that part of the world. It is just that he is a bit more civilized than Al Nusra and ISIS (as you yourself noted). I am not denying that Assad is a war criminal. I am only saying he is not stupid enough to want to draw the US into the war when he is already winning.

    I am not saying that we should believe the rebels, or the Western media or Assad. All have shown themselves capable of lying. In this situation, the best I can do is to analyze which side a particular action benefits.
    I don't know about this attack but independent investigators have confirmed Assad used chemical weapons last year in Khan Sheikhoon as well as previously in this war.

    You don't need a time machine to identify the perpetrators of the chemical attack. Remember when Assad agreed to hand over large parts of his chemical weapons stock after Obama and Putin agreed on a disarmament deal in 2013 ?

    The sarin used in Khan Sheikhoun matched samples taken from the stockpiles handed over by Damascus to the OPCW. The precursor chemical needed to make the poison was also likely to have originated from Syrian Givt stocks. Not only that, Syrian aircraft was confirmed to have been flying around the time the chemical attack took place and the crater seen could only have occurred after the dropping of an aerial bomb at high velocity.

    Now accepting this fact does not mean I want Assad bombed to oblivion ! As Mehdi Hasan wrote in his excellent Intercept article (or are the anti-interventionist Intercept now a wing of the CIA ?), we can walk and chew gum at the same time.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by R3verse Swing View Post
    Where is the evidence of the gas attack?
    Seventy dead people with their lungs burned out.

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    It really is something when conservative commentator & Daily Mail columnist Peter Hitchens is the voice of sanity when he argues against Syrian bombing & takes Andrew Neil and the disgraced Priti Patel to task.
    From 5.12 onwards
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episod...-week-19042018

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    Quote Originally Posted by R3verse Swing View Post
    You think the attack was illegal because it was done without consent? The attacks were NOT illegal. Firstly, US President is the Commander in Chief, he doesn't need consent. UK PM, under the Royal prerogative powers, the Government can declare war and deploy armed forces to conflicts abroad without the backing or consent of Parliament.

    https://publications.parliament.uk/p.../236/23603.htm

    However, the legality of the attacks is neither here nor there, since you missed out the most important element of your point, EVIDENCE! There is no proof that Assad was behind the chemical attacks. In fact, the OPCW inspectors are investigating Douma AFTER the USA, UK, and France launched their missiles. Waa ji waa! Bomb first, then question later without any evidence or proof. Then you wonder why society is in a binary state of thought!

    Your narrative of Assad being an evil person etc, yes great! But it's the same narrative the West trumpet as a justification to bomb the region and its leader! If the West really cared about evil leaders, they'd be in Africa right now, starting with Zimbabwe.
    Maybe I should have made it clearer - it is illegal under the UN Charter.

    Regardless of whatever narrative the West uses to justify its reckless adventurism abroad, it doesn't change the facts that Assad has committed internationally, UN verified war crimes previously in this war. Whether he did in Douma - again I don't know but given his prior use of sarin it's not inconceivable he did. It's ironic those who were lauding the UN for their inspections in Iraq that found no WMD are now saying the UN cannot be taken credibly !

    Now does that mean I want Assad overthrown by the west ? Hell no. But two pigs rolling in mud are still dirty - even if one is muddier than the other.

    The man himself was cosying up to the West, instituting neoliberal economic reforms, and was sipping tea with the Queen being lauded as a "reformer" in the early 2000s by the Western media so let's not paint him as an anti-imperialist hero.
    Last edited by Markhor; 20th April 2018 at 18:38.

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    Quote Originally Posted by irfan View Post
    It really is something when conservative commentator & Daily Mail columnist Peter Hitchens is the voice of sanity when he argues against Syrian bombing & takes Andrew Neil and the disgraced Priti Patel to task.
    From 5.12 onwards
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episod...-week-19042018
    Peter was always better on foreign affairs than his brother, love for Israel aside.

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    Quote Originally Posted by R3verse Swing View Post


    The point is not what Assad is, the point is Western media lies, has been caught lying, and the sheeple will continue to buy their false narrative.
    The point is Assad is a butcher AND the Western media love to cheerlead foreign wars.

    4+3=7, 5+2 also equals 7.

    It's telling how ideologically dogmatic some are when they cannot reconcile these two points in their head.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Seventy dead people with their lungs burned out.
    So why is the media reporting it as a suspected attack? Also the number dead does not prove who did it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    The point is Assad is a butcher AND the Western media love to cheerlead foreign wars.

    4+3=7, 5+2 also equals 7.

    It's telling how ideologically dogmatic some are when they cannot reconcile these two points in their head.
    There are many butchers in the world - this is the point. Why should the West care/worry about Assad? This is the question. The answer is obvious - Israel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    I don't know about this attack but independent investigators have confirmed Assad used chemical weapons last year in Khan Sheikhoon as well as previously in this war.
    I'm afraid this is simply not logical. Just because Assad used chemical weapons previously doesn't mean he did this time. We could extend this logic by saying the West were lying about Iraq 2003, so they are lying about Syria this time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    You don't need a time machine to identify the perpetrators of the chemical attack. Remember when Assad agreed to hand over large parts of his chemical weapons stock after Obama and Putin agreed on a disarmament deal in 2013 ?

    The sarin used in Khan Sheikhoun matched samples taken from the stockpiles handed over by Damascus to the OPCW. The precursor chemical needed to make the poison was also likely to have originated from Syrian Givt stocks. Not only that, Syrian aircraft was confirmed to have been flying around the time the chemical attack took place and the crater seen could only have occurred after the dropping of an aerial bomb at high velocity.

    Now accepting this fact does not mean I want Assad bombed to oblivion ! As Mehdi Hasan wrote in his excellent Intercept article (or are the anti-interventionist Intercept now a wing of the CIA ?), we can walk and chew gum at the same time.
    The bombs dropped in Yemen by the Saudis are made in UK, does this mean UK are bombing Yemen? No.

    The reality is there is no proof of who was responsible for the recent attack, and all that you have, and the West has, are assumptions based on previous actions. Could this suspected chemical attack not be a false flag? It is a distinct possibility.

    All I ask for is evidence, like any other sane individual would before bombing a nation - it's not too much to ask for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adijazz1706 View Post
    OPCW are Calling it a suspected attack, it hasn't been proven yet
    It has been proven to be gas attack, the video and photo evidence says so. OPCW and other entities have to use words such as alleged/suspected for legal reasons. Same reason news channals use the term alleged when they say so and so committed a criminal act. OPCW will find out who did the attack but as the sources in post#8 says, Regime and Russia are interfering with their investigation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by R3verse Swing View Post
    There are many butchers in the world - this is the point. Why should the West care/worry about Assad? This is the question. The answer is obvious - Israel.
    Quote Originally Posted by R3verse Swing View Post
    I'm afraid this is simply not logical. Just because Assad used chemical weapons previously doesn't mean he did this time. We could extend this logic by saying the West were lying about Iraq 2003, so they are lying about Syria this time.



    The bombs dropped in Yemen by the Saudis are made in UK, does this mean UK are bombing Yemen? No.

    The reality is there is no proof of who was responsible for the recent attack, and all that you have, and the West has, are assumptions based on previous actions. Could this suspected chemical attack not be a false flag? It is a distinct possibility.

    All I ask for is evidence, like any other sane individual would before bombing a nation - it's not too much to ask for.
    I agree we should wait for the evidence but if folks are already dismissing it as a false flag like they did in Khan Sheikhoun last year by the way - then it doesn't appear they're willing to hear it if it produces an outcome they don't want.

    As for why the West and Gulf states want Assad gone - they want to wipe out Iran's biggest ally in the Middle East and create a Saudi hegemony. The energy pipeline is another reason as Robert F Kennedy's son wrote in his articles for EcoWatch and POLITICO.

    The Saudis need to learn to share the neighbourhood but have never accepted Iran as their equals - hence why they're even willing to cosy up to even the most right-wing Israeli government in history to weaken Iran and their allies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by R3verse Swing View Post
    The point is not what Assad is, the point is Western media lies, has been caught lying, and the sheeple will continue to buy their false narrative.
    The sheeple will continue believing “western media lies” and conspiracy theorists should thank themselves for this. They think they are doing some favors to Palestinians by repeating whatever non sense comes in their mind. Unfortunately they are creating a bad reputation for every cause they touch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saeed View Post
    It has been proven to be gas attack, the video and photo evidence says so. OPCW and other entities have to use words such as alleged/suspected for legal reasons. Same reason news channals use the term alleged when they say so and so committed a criminal act. OPCW will find out who did the attack but as the sources in post#8 says, Regime and Russia are interfering with their investigation.
    Yet USA, UK, and France know who was behind the attack , they did not wait for the outcome of the investigation before launching 00+ Tomahawk missiles. So what is the point of the OPCW investigation?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saeed View Post
    The sheeple will continue believing “western media lies” and conspiracy theorists should thank themselves for this. They think they are doing some favors to Palestinians by repeating whatever non sense comes in their mind. Unfortunately they are creating a bad reputation for every cause they touch.
    In other words you have not denied the fact that Western media has lied.

    Here's the reality, anyone who does not believe the official narrative is deemed a conspiracy theorist. This is the sorry state of affairs we are in. We cannot question the motives and actions of our government without being labelled heretics. Who needs democracy eh?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    I agree we should wait for the evidence but if folks are already dismissing it as a false flag like they did in Khan Sheikhoun last year by the way - then it doesn't appear they're willing to hear it if it produces an outcome they don't want.

    As for why the West and Gulf states want Assad gone - they want to wipe out Iran's biggest ally in the Middle East and create a Saudi hegemony. The energy pipeline is another reason as Robert F Kennedy's son wrote in his articles for EcoWatch and POLITICO.

    The Saudis need to learn to share the neighbourhood but have never accepted Iran as their equals - hence why they're even willing to cosy up to even the most right-wing Israeli government in history to weaken Iran and their allies.
    Do you not see? The bold emphasis is the main reason why Syria/Assad is a target. UK/USA responses have nothing to do with humanity, morality, or a chemical attack, but everything to do with political interests of the Right-Wing Israeli government. We are lead to believe 70 died in a suspected chemical attack, BUT more have died in Syria due to civil war but the West simply doesn't intervene.

    The fact Assad has practically won, and that US is pulling out its forces, is a warning shot to the powers to be that their end game is under threat, so let's pull them [USA] back into war by any means necessary.

    Yes I agree SA should not be cosying up to Israel either but can we please apply some perspective here and not make out the UK/USA responded to the chemical attack because of empathy, when it is clear that a] UK/USA are getting played, and b] UK/USA interests are more sinister than we know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by R3verse Swing View Post
    Yet USA, UK, and France know who was behind the attack , they did not wait for the outcome of the investigation before launching 00+ Tomahawk missiles. So what is the point of the OPCW investigation?
    Check the other thread about chemical attack, already discussed this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saeed View Post
    Check the other thread about chemical attack, already discussed this.
    Then why are you struggling to cite proof of the suspected chemical attacks?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saeed View Post
    It has been proven to be gas attack, the video and photo evidence says so. OPCW and other entities have to use words such as alleged/suspected for legal reasons. Same reason news channals use the term alleged when they say so and so committed a criminal act. OPCW will find out who did the attack but as the sources in post#8 says, Regime and Russia are interfering with their investigation.
    I think OPCW won’t be able to say who did it - they will merely confirm that there has been a chemical attack. I doubt that the shells will have ‘Stark Industries’ or something stencilled on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by R3verse Swing View Post
    Then why are you struggling to cite proof of the suspected chemical attacks?
    Go through it and you will find the citation. Make such accusations again and it will be the last time I will be giving you my time. The proofs are videos and photos that are everywhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    I think OPCW won’t be able to say who did it - they will merely confirm that there has been a chemical attack. I doubt that the shells will have ‘Stark Industries’ or something stencilled on.
    Right, but the Western governments attacked Syria because they believed that Assad was responsible. So I ask again, what is the point of the investigation? Clearly if perpetrators cannot be confirmed, then there's a 50% chance the rebels were the cause, meaning there's a 50% chance the suspected checmical attack was a false flag.

    UK/USA attack was all about timing. Why couldn't the UK/USA wait for the outcome of the OPCW investigation? Don't say Russia was interfering, because OPCW are at site right now investigating - and you and I know, when it comes to chemicals, there is no such thing as getting rid of the evidence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saeed View Post
    Go through it and you will find the citation. Make such accusations again and it will be the last time I will be giving you my time. The proofs are videos and photos that are everywhere.
    So you do not have any evidence. You want us to believe you are the only person with proof, and everyone else is still investigating.

    Take it from me, I will not be giving you any of my time henceforth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    I think OPCW won’t be able to say who did it - they will merely confirm that there has been a chemical attack. I doubt that the shells will have ‘Stark Industries’ or something stencilled on.
    Agreed. But once it’s proven its all about connecting the dots and looking for precedents. We already know Regime had chemical weapons but got rid of them in 2013. We also know Regime used chemical weapons at Khan Shiekhhon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by R3verse Swing View Post
    So you do not have any evidence. You want me to believe you are the only person with proof, and everyone else is still investigating.

    Take it from me, I will not be giving you any of my time henceforth.
    Corrected. Why would I have any evidence? I am not on the ground. Since you couldn’t bother to go through it, here is the link I provided in that thread. https://www.bellingcat.com/news/mena...th-april-2018/

    That’s ok, I am not losing anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by R3verse Swing View Post
    Right, but the Western governments attacked Syria because they believed that Assad was responsible. So I ask again, what is the point of the investigation? Clearly if perpetrators cannot be confirmed, then there's a 50% chance the rebels were the cause, meaning there's a 50% chance the suspected checmical attack was a false flag.

    UK/USA attack was all about timing. Why couldn't the UK/USA wait for the outcome of the OPCW investigation? Don't say Russia was interfering, because OPCW are at site right now investigating - and you and I know, when it comes to chemicals, there is no such thing as getting rid of the evidence.
    Because Russia was interfering, delaying the arrival of OPCW.

    I suppose that USA-UK-France thought there would be no inspection due to the usual Russian veto, so they decided to go anyway.

    Now the Russians have relented and the inspectors have gone in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saeed View Post
    Corrected. Why would I have any evidence? I am not on the ground. Since you couldn’t bother to go through it, here is the link I provided in that thread. https://www.bellingcat.com/news/mena...th-april-2018/

    That’s ok, I am not losing anything.
    BellingCat is a credible website? You might as well quote RT! Why are other credible news sources not reporting this evidence like BBC?

    Here's one of the first comments on the article :

    Ben - April 19, 2018
    I work in construction. Let me clarify that a standard industrial gas canister would not penetrate a concrete framed apartment blocks reinforced concrete roof. It would burst on impact no matter what height it was dropped from. Ive seen this first hand. The image showing the alleged bomb resting complete with stabilising fins resting on a wooden bed after penetrating a standard 150mm reinforced with steel concrete roof is a clear fabrication or staged photo
    Best

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    I think OPCW won’t be able to say who did it - they will merely confirm that there has been a chemical attack. I doubt that the shells will have ‘Stark Industries’ or something stencilled on.
    It was done by the rebels or the terrorists to be accurate.

    There's one thing nobody can explain, why is the the job of the UK to get involved in Syria? Since when has the UK and it's allies been awarded the worlds police status?


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saeed View Post
    Agreed. But once it’s proven its all about connecting the dots and looking for precedents. We already know Regime had chemical weapons but got rid of them in 2013. We also know Regime used chemical weapons at Khan Shiekhhon.
    Hmm, we know they signed the CWC in 2013 - that is how they escaped UN-sanctioned attack - but might have made some more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by R3verse Swing View Post
    BellingCat is a credible website? You might as well quote RT! Why are other credible news sources not reporting this evidence like BBC?
    Its a lot more credible than the comment you posted, other so called independent “journalists” and RT. It also has more credibility than you. What do you disagree with in the link? All they did was report about what went on with photo and video evidence.

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    The air strikes were not illegal as such, but the point is moot at the moment because there was no prior investigation. I know that the top brass get to see more material than we do in order to make their decision, but it really does feel from the outside that this was done on an educated guess at best, and a stab in the dark at worst. Until we see otherwise, there is no hard evidence that Syria was responsible for this latest chemical attack. If the hard evidence was to be produced, I would feel less uncomfortable about the use of military force.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    It was done by the rebels or the terrorists to be accurate.

    There's one thing nobody can explain, why is the the job of the UK to get involved in Syria? Since when has the UK and it's allies been awarded the worlds police status?
    Another crucial point is why doesn't the West attack Russia? Let's just get it over and done with. Trump, Blame Russia. Brexit, blame Russia. Syria, blame Russia. My shower was not working this morning, blame Russia!

    UK is a lapdog of USA. This is what pees me off the most. When USA says jump, UK responds by saying - how high?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saeed View Post
    Its a lot more credible than the comment you posted, other so called independent “journalists” and RT. It also has more credibility than you. What do you disagree with in the link? All they did was report about what went on with photo and video evidence.
    Awww bless. Imploded so soon? My comment was simply asking to present the evidence, which you have not. You may as well draw a cartoon!

    Lets grant your wishy washy notion. If you cite what you believe to be video and photo proof of the chemical attacks, then a] why are the likes of BBC not reporting using the same evidence, and b] what is the point of the OPCW investigation?

    Right now you are the one wearing the tinfoil hat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by R3verse Swing View Post
    Another crucial point is why doesn't the West attack Russia? Let's just get it over and done with. Trump, Blame Russia. Brexit, blame Russia. Syria, blame Russia. My shower was not working this morning, blame Russia!

    UK is a lapdog of USA. This is what pees me off the most. When USA says jump, UK responds by saying - how high?
    The appropriate word would be something which rhymes with stitch.

    They only attack the weak, those with no real military power or nukes which is why the US is hated by people all over the world and sadly the UK too since it's immoral wars in Iraq and Libya.

    Im not sure what you think but imo this is related to the Salisbury incident. That particular incident was a false flag to take out an ex Russian spy who once again began working for Russia, as he visited the Russian embassy on a regular basis. This was also used to spread propaganda against Russia so more of the British public would back any strikes in Syria, which really didn't work so the PM didn't consult parliament.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

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    Quote Originally Posted by R3verse Swing View Post
    Lets grant your wishy washy notion. If you cite what you believe to be video and photo proof of the chemical attacks, then a] why are the likes of BBC not reporting using the same evidence, and b] what is the point of the OPCW investigation.
    Actually I did provide you the source and if you go through it will answer your questions. I already said that go through the other thread, I already discussed the point of OPCW’s investigation. But it looks like you’re more interested in pushing propaganda down other people’s throat. Calm down and read what other people write if you want to engage in a discussion.
    Last edited by Saeed; 20th April 2018 at 20:20.

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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    The air strikes were not illegal as such, but the point is moot at the moment because there was no prior investigation. I know that the top brass get to see more material than we do in order to make their decision, but it really does feel from the outside that this was done on an educated guess at best, and a stab in the dark at worst. Until we see otherwise, there is no hard evidence that Syria was responsible for this latest chemical attack. If the hard evidence was to be produced, I would feel less uncomfortable about the use of military force.

    Even if it was unequivocally proven that Assad did it (it won’t be) I still would not have gone. Let the horrible regime and horrible ISIL get on with it. Sounds bad, but the EU has taken about two million refugees so we’ve surely done our bit.

    Time to defend fellow NATO states only, time for the USA to stop vetoing every UNSCR on Israel, and let the Middle East sort itself out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saeed View Post
    Actually I did provide you the source and if you go through it will answer your questions. I already said that go through the other thread, I already discussed the point of OPCW’s investigation. But it looks like you’re more interested in pushing propaganda down other people’s throat. Calm down and read what other people write if you want to engage in a discussion.
    Do not point me at the other thread, just shoot me down with the proof now if you can. Why are you WASTING your time posting worlds that are not relevant?

    Also, stop this nonsense about wanting to engage in a discussion. It is YOU who is stalling, you still cannot answer the simple question I posited.

    I urge you to stop pedalling lies and propaganda, because if you think a website called BELLINGCAT is more credible than the BBC, UN, et al - then you sir are the conspiracy tin foil hat theorist!

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    Quote Originally Posted by R3verse Swing View Post
    Do not point me at the other thread, just shoot me down with the proof now if you can. Why are you WASTING your time posting worlds that are not relevant?

    Also, stop this nonsense about wanting to engage in a discussion. It is YOU who is stalling, you still cannot answer the simple question I posited.

    I urge you to stop pedalling lies and propaganda, because if you think a website called BELLINGCAT is more credible than the BBC, UN, et al - then you sir are the conspiracy tin foil hat theorist!
    I see that you’re still not interested in reading what other person says.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    The appropriate word would be something which rhymes with stitch.

    They only attack the weak, those with no real military power or nukes which is why the US is hated by people all over the world and sadly the UK too since it's immoral wars in Iraq and Libya.

    Im not sure what you think but imo this is related to the Salisbury incident. That particular incident was a false flag to take out an ex Russian spy who once again began working for Russia, as he visited the Russian embassy on a regular basis. This was also used to spread propaganda against Russia so more of the British public would back any strikes in Syria, which really didn't work so the PM didn't consult parliament.
    100% agree. May attacked Syria not because of a suspect chemical attack, but because she wanted to some how respond to the Russians in reference to Salisbury. It has back fired, because the majority are not buying it. She is losing points as well as seats.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saeed View Post
    I see that you’re still not interested in reading what other person says.
    Still no answer to my simple questions.

    Good night, and good bye!


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    It's all a circus and an evil joke, that's what it truly is.

    Lies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saeed View Post
    Lets add some balance.




    https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/syr....co/5tvQcj1Wk4
    https://amp.theguardian.com/world/20...mpression=true
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/ampht...mpression=true
    Quote Originally Posted by Saeed View Post
    Robert Fisk(has history of supporting Regime’s narrative), OANN(less said about them the better) and some Italian media. CBS news made it to the site too as the link provided in the post says. I am sure there are more but I don’t know their names yet.
    So your claim is that Robert Fisk is lying when he directly quotes and names the doctor in charge of the clinic where the gas attack was supposedly filmed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    Why is so much of our modern political discourse dominated by such binary thinking ?

    I'm against the overthrow of Assad's government as I don't want to see the black flag of Al Nusra and ISIS flying over Damascus and another failed state emerge in the Middle East, and oppose any attempts by the West to bring this about regardless of whether Assad used chemical weapons or not. These air strikes by Trump, May and Macron are illegal and was done without consent of their respective Parliaments.

    However that does not make Assad a saint whose crimes are all mere fabrications by the media. Is the UN and OPCW part of the "deep state conspiracy" when they confirmed Assad used chemical weapons in Khan Sheikhoun last year ? The famous Iraq weapons inspector Hans Blix who OPPOSED the Iraq war and faced down pressure from the Bush-Cheney Administration also confirmed chemical weapons were used by Assad's forces or is he on the CIA payroll too ? The UN have also confirmed Assad's forces have illegally detained and tortured peaceful opposition activists, besieged Palestinian refugee camp in Yarmouk, starved civilian population centres and has bombed civilian infrastructure such as agricultural and water facilities.

    In your rightful opposition to western military intervention in Syria, please don't resort to atrocity denial to defend Assad who's a war criminal by every definition and twist the facts to fit your ideologies.
    In which one of my posts have I claimed Assad is a saint.

    The problem is that you either fail to understand the reports presented from the OPCW or fall into media lies because you fail to read around the topic.

    Visit the OPCW website, check out their bulletins from Khan Shakoun last year and show me where they states that the SYrian government has carried out a chemical attack?

    I'll be waiting forever because no such statement exists. The OPCW does not have the ability or mission to identify who carried out any chemical weapon attack. They can simply assess whether or not a chemical attack has taken place.

    YES in this case, following the Khan Shakoun attack (if any took place), the OPCW did state that chemical weapons had been used, HOWEVER, they themselves state that they had never sent any personnel into Khan Shakoun, or any other part of Syria for that matter and were relying or corpses that were brought to them across the border into Lebanon (if I remember the country correctly).

    As a scientist, that raises several questions for me, the primary being, how does the OPCW know for sure that these bodies are from Khan Shakoun and nowhere else?

    Matters are made worse with the recent "attack", where reports have once again come from bordering nations that corpses have arrived from Douma, showing the hallmarks of chemical attacks YET doctors AND civilians in Douma have states that no chemical attack has taken place. That leads to a dilemma does it now? This is a yes or no issue, either a chemical attack took place in Douma, or it did not. There can be no in between. So either the head doctor at the clinic where the "attack" was filmed is lying, and the citizens are in on it or those that state they have seen corpses from Douma are lying.

    The lies do not stop there. I was watching Sky News one afternoon, where they had a journalist on the ground in Easter Ghouta, where for weeks we had been told Assad was slaughtering innocent people and that the people were crying out for Western intervention. Do you know what the journalist ended up showing? The citizens he interviewed not only supported Assad, they wanted them to bomb their own city and take out the areas that had been taken over by extremist groups. Suffice to say, that bit of video was never, ever repeated on Sky ever again.

    So, rather than imposing your own ideas on what you THINK I'm saying, actually research what I HAVE said.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by R3verse Swing View Post
    100% agree. May attacked Syria not because of a suspect chemical attack, but because she wanted to some how respond to the Russians in reference to Salisbury. It has back fired, because the majority are not buying it. She is losing points as well as seats.
    This reminds me of something I saw yesterday. It is very similar to the video you posted of the Major General. Sky News were once again interviewing an expert, all I remember is his name was Ian and he absolutely went off on one, talking about how no one in the country wanted the government to attack Syria, he went on to quote a poll which showed less than 25% of those polled wanted the attack...guess what happened? The blonde journalist said they were out of time and moved onto a story about Arsene Wenger.

    you literally can't make this up but it all sounds like satire

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    Quote Originally Posted by barah_admi View Post
    This reminds me of something I saw yesterday. It is very similar to the video you posted of the Major General. Sky News were once again interviewing an expert, all I remember is his name was Ian and he absolutely went off on one, talking about how no one in the country wanted the government to attack Syria, he went on to quote a poll which showed less than 25% of those polled wanted the attack...guess what happened? The blonde journalist said they were out of time and moved onto a story about Arsene Wenger.

    you literally can't make this up but it all sounds like satire
    Take a look at this thread, not a single person adopting the so called *official Western narrative* has the backbone to comment on the Sky video posted in the thread. The former head of British Armed Forces' opinion dwarfs the comments in this thread but no, these sheeple will continue to parrot the Western Media narrative. Not only that, the UN official - the video also posted in this thread - states clearly that Western media have no sources on the ground.

    I feel pity towards the sheeple who accept everything but question nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by barah_admi View Post
    In which one of my posts have I claimed Assad is a saint.

    The problem is that you either fail to understand the reports presented from the OPCW or fall into media lies because you fail to read around the topic.

    Visit the OPCW website, check out their bulletins from Khan Shakoun last year and show me where they states that the SYrian government has carried out a chemical attack?

    I'll be waiting forever because no such statement exists. The OPCW does not have the ability or mission to identify who carried out any chemical weapon attack. They can simply assess whether or not a chemical attack has taken place.

    YES in this case, following the Khan Shakoun attack (if any took place), the OPCW did state that chemical weapons had been used, HOWEVER, they themselves state that they had never sent any personnel into Khan Shakoun, or any other part of Syria for that matter and were relying or corpses that were brought to them across the border into Lebanon (if I remember the country correctly).

    As a scientist, that raises several questions for me, the primary being, how does the OPCW know for sure that these bodies are from Khan Shakoun and nowhere else?

    Matters are made worse with the recent "attack", where reports have once again come from bordering nations that corpses have arrived from Douma, showing the hallmarks of chemical attacks YET doctors AND civilians in Douma have states that no chemical attack has taken place. That leads to a dilemma does it now? This is a yes or no issue, either a chemical attack took place in Douma, or it did not. There can be no in between. So either the head doctor at the clinic where the "attack" was filmed is lying, and the citizens are in on it or those that state they have seen corpses from Douma are lying.

    The lies do not stop there. I was watching Sky News one afternoon, where they had a journalist on the ground in Easter Ghouta, where for weeks we had been told Assad was slaughtering innocent people and that the people were crying out for Western intervention. Do you know what the journalist ended up showing? The citizens he interviewed not only supported Assad, they wanted them to bomb their own city and take out the areas that had been taken over by extremist groups. Suffice to say, that bit of video was never, ever repeated on Sky ever again.

    So, rather than imposing your own ideas on what you THINK I'm saying, actually research what I HAVE said.
    I was referring more generally to those on the anti-war left who seek to whitewash the conduct of Assad's forces, not you specifically, but there are some inaccuracies with your argument.

    1) No, the OPCW's job is not to pinpoint the perpetrators of chemical attacks but in their analysis they can deduce who is most likely to have conducted them.

    You say you've read the OPCW report on Khan Sheikoun. In that case, you must have seen that they concluded the crater formed could only have occurred as a result of a high velocity aerial bomb by an Sukhoi-22 fighter jet which is only operated by Assad's forces.

    The biggest giveaway is they found sarin samples that MATCHED those the Syrian Govt handed in as part of their chemical weapons disarmament agreement. The photographs of remnants of the bomb used also matches those of a type used in the former USSR. There are still ways to obtain evidence without having physical presence of inspectors like logs of aircraft movements, analysis of satellite and eyewitness interviews.

    But let's not quibble over one attack or another when the UN themselves found Khan Sheikhoun was only of at least 20 chemical weapons attacks carried out by Assad from March 2013 to March 2017 !

    2) I don't watch Sky News but you are smart enough to know that you are not going to get people demanding regime change on television living in a warzone ruled by a military dictatorship that has used detention, torture and murder to silence opponents as confirmed by UN reports.

    Why don't you equally regard the views of the Syrian refugees in Germany whom 70% according to opinion polls blame Assad for the loss of their homes ? Why don't you equally regard the UN report that Assad is responsible for the majority of civilian deaths ? Do you think the civilians in Madaya are thanking Assad for starving and beseiging them ?

    Are you not making the same mistake as the western press when you hold the views of one individual on a pedestal and overlook the views of others because it doesn''t fit your narrative ?

    3) Again, nobody can verify what happened in Douma. I've said Trump and May were foolish to announce air strikes without allowing the inspectors in.

    4) Does this mean I want Assad overthrown or I believe the Western media/government narrative about Assad being the only evil and the opposition are democracy loving freedom fighters ? FGS NO ! I can't make it clear enough - I'm the biggest critic of the shameless liar that is Pres Trump on this forum and don't believe a word from his mouth.

    Look, all I'm saying is regardless of how the facts are interpreted by certain parties to further their agenda - the facts don't change.

    The fact I OPPOSE western military force in Syria doesn't blind me from Assad's war crimes. Surely we can agree there is no good party in this hideous war; this war is dominated by evil men committing evil deeds with propaganda on ALL sides. I hope for the sake of Syrians they return to peace.
    Last edited by Markhor; 21st April 2018 at 16:02.

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    Quote Originally Posted by R3verse Swing View Post
    Take a look at this thread, not a single person adopting the so called *official Western narrative* has the backbone to comment on the Sky video posted in the thread. The former head of British Armed Forces' opinion dwarfs the comments in this thread but no, these sheeple will continue to parrot the Western Media narrative. Not only that, the UN official - the video also posted in this thread - states clearly that Western media have no sources on the ground.

    I feel pity towards the sheeple who accept everything but question nothing.
    Just look at the Markhor guy, his post is above this one. He actually believes what he is typing although the OPCW report is itself contradictory.

    It does get quite boring trying to argue a lie over and over again.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by R3verse Swing View Post
    Take a look at this thread, not a single person adopting the so called *official Western narrative* has the backbone to comment on the Sky video posted in the thread. The former head of British Armed Forces' opinion dwarfs the comments in this thread but no, these sheeple will continue to parrot the Western Media narrative. Not only that, the UN official - the video also posted in this thread - states clearly that Western media have no sources on the ground.

    I feel pity towards the sheeple who accept everything but question nothing.
    Sad indeed. One of the things I always admired about the Pakistani qaum was the ability to resist the imperialist narrative, even when our Indian "leaders" were acting like chaprasis and bowing down to the West.

    Now it seems many Pakistanis too have fallen for the regime change agenda.

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    Quote Originally Posted by barah_admi View Post
    Just look at the Markhor guy, his post is above this one. He actually believes what he is typing although the OPCW report is itself contradictory.

    It does get quite boring trying to argue a lie over and over again.
    My goodness me we are fiesty in this thread. I gave you the courtesy of a detailed reply addressing each of your point one by one but you want to me brand me a liar instead.

    Brother I have read the report. Now instead of getting angry, can I ask if you have you read a paragraph, or even a line, of the UN Joint Investigative Mechanism's Report that was produced in conjunction with the OPCW ?

    I will post the link here, and the key findings for you to digest yourself:

    46. With respect to identifying those responsible, the Leadership Panel has determined that the information that it has obtained constitutes sufficient credible and reliable evidence of the following:

    (a) Aircraft dropped munitions over Khan Shaykhun between 0630 and 0700 hours on 4 April 2017;

    (b) An aircraft of the Syrian Arab Republic was in the immediate vicinity of Khan Shaykhun between 0630 and 0700 hours on 4 April 2017;

    (c) The crater from which the sarin emanated was created on the morning of 4 April 2017;

    (d) The crater was caused by the impact of an aerial bomb travelling at high velocity;

    (e) A large number of people were affected by sarin between 0630 and 0700 hours on the morning of 4 April 2017;

    (f) The number of persons affected by the release of sarin on 4 April 2017, and the fact that sarin reportedly continued to be present at the site of the crater 10 days after the incident, indicate that a large amount of sarin was likely released, which is consistent with its being dispersed through a chemical aerial bomb;

    (g) The symptoms of victims and their medical treatment, as well as the scale of the incident, are consistent with a large-scale intoxication of sarin;

    (h) The sarin identified in the samples taken from Khan Shaykhun was found to have most likely been made with a precursor (DF) from the original stockpile of the Syrian Arab Republic;

    (i) The irregularities described in annex II are not of such a nature as to call into question the aforementioned findings. On the basis of the foregoing, the Leadership Panel is confident that the Syrian Arab Republic is responsible for the release of sarin at Khan Shaykhun on 4 April 2017. The findings of the Leadership Panel regarding the evidence in this case are based on the information set forth in detail in annex II.
    The link in full: http://undocs.org/S/2017/904

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    Markhor bhai, the point here is you are clinging on to the past to justify the future. On one hand you are claiming OPCW cannot identify the perpetrators of the alleged chemical attack, on the other you are using Khan Shaykhun to determine Assad was behind the attack. This is the Western narrative.

    By this logic, Western governments have lied in the past, thus are lying now.
    Last edited by R3verse Swing; 23rd April 2018 at 19:12.

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    Quote Originally Posted by R3verse Swing View Post
    Markhor bhai, the point here is you are clinging on to the past to justify the future. On one hand you are claiming OPCW cannot identify the perpetrators of the alleged chemical attack, on the other you are using Khan Shaykhun to determine Assad was behind the attack. This is the Western narrative.

    By this logic, Western governments have lied in the past, thus are lying now.
    I am not claiming anything that isn't in the report by the UN's Joint Investigative Mechanism which was set up by the UN Security Council - http://undocs.org/S/2017/904

    OPCW alone don't have a mandate to identify perpetrators, but they do have a partnership agreement with the UN's JIM, and the JIM concluded Assad was the likely perpetrator of Khan Shaykhun chemical attack based on the evidence. That's what I'm going by, not media propaganda which is in plentiful supply by both sides.

    Does it mean he committed the attack in Douma ? I've said at least three times on this thread I don't know because the inspectors haven't been able to conclude their investigations.

    Even if he did commit the atrocities, I don't support bombing his government forces without a UN mandate, or even with one given the nature of the opposition, and without exhaustion of all diplomatic means to end the conflict.

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    As ever @Markhor is the voice of reason on PP, as sure-footed as a Himalayan corkscrew-horned goat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    I am not claiming anything that isn't in the report by the UN's Joint Investigative Mechanism which was set up by the UN Security Council - http://undocs.org/S/2017/904

    OPCW alone don't have a mandate to identify perpetrators, but they do have a partnership agreement with the UN's JIM, and the JIM concluded Assad was the likely perpetrator of Khan Shaykhun chemical attack based on the evidence. That's what I'm going by, not media propaganda which is in plentiful supply by both sides.

    Does it mean he committed the attack in Douma ? I've said at least three times on this thread I don't know because the inspectors haven't been able to conclude their investigations.

    Even if he did commit the atrocities, I don't support bombing his government forces without a UN mandate, or even with one given the nature of the opposition, and without exhaustion of all diplomatic means to end the conflict.
    You are doing it again. By claiming Assad was the likely perpetrator based on Khan Shaykhun chemical attack. THIS IS THE WESTERN NARRATIVE. The justification to launch 100+ Tomahawks on Syria.

    Where is the evidence/proof Assad was the perpetrator of late? You don't have it.

    Whether you believe Assad should be overthrown or not is irrelevant, the FACT you believe Assad committed crimes in the past means he is guilty now, devoid of evidence, means you are parroting the Western narrative! This is the point!

    You have also admitted there is a deeper cause to all of this, the oil and gas pipelines! How can you reconcile your balanced views with the what you have posted!?

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    I am not claiming anything that isn't in the report by the UN's Joint Investigative Mechanism which was set up by the UN Security Council - http://undocs.org/S/2017/904

    OPCW alone don't have a mandate to identify perpetrators, but they do have a partnership agreement with the UN's JIM, and the JIM concluded Assad was the likely perpetrator of Khan Shaykhun chemical attack based on the evidence. That's what I'm going by, not media propaganda which is in plentiful supply by both sides.

    Does it mean he committed the attack in Douma ? I've said at least three times on this thread I don't know because the inspectors haven't been able to conclude their investigations.

    Even if he did commit the atrocities, I don't support bombing his government forces without a UN mandate, or even with one given the nature of the opposition, and without exhaustion of all diplomatic means to end the conflict.
    I dont think you are aware the data used by JIM was gathered from various sources including NGO's which were linked/supportive of the terrorists who were fighting against Assad. This is why they couldn't be conclusive in their summary, so only suggested it was likely to be Assad. Now in any decent court of law, nobody can be convicted of an offense if the investigation concludes they were likey to be the perpetrators.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by R3verse Swing View Post
    You are doing it again. By claiming Assad was the likely perpetrator based on Khan Shaykhun chemical attack. THIS IS THE WESTERN NARRATIVE. The justification to launch 100+ Tomahawks on Syria.

    Where is the evidence/proof Assad was the perpetrator of late? You don't have it.

    Whether you believe Assad should be overthrown or not is irrelevant, the FACT you believe Assad committed crimes in the past means he is guilty now, devoid of evidence, means you are parroting the Western narrative! This is the point!

    You have also admitted there is a deeper cause to all of this, the oil and gas pipelines! How can you reconcile your balanced views with the what you have posted!?
    Hit the nail.

    We live in a time where nations are invaded, people are bombed because of what is 'believed' or because of blatant lies as in the WMD case. What this does is criminalises people or a government based on hearsay, guesses and how they may be percieved.

    From day when accusations were made of Assad killing protestors after the invasion of Libya, to this day no real proof has been provided of anything Assad has been accused of yet he has been made look worse than Hitler in the western media.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    2) I don't watch Sky News but you are smart enough to know that you are not going to get people demanding regime change on television living in a warzone ruled by a military dictatorship that has used detention, torture and murder to silence opponents as confirmed by UN reports.
    With respect, you do not have to watch SKY news to realise why the ex-British head of Armed forces is being cut off on LIVE TV because he doesn't follow the Western narrative since he questions the validity and motive of the alleged chemical attacks.

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