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  1. #1
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    Imagine being an upcoming, talented filmmaker in India/Pakistan and waking up to this...

    This trailer of ‘Race 3’. I don’t mind mindless action but this just looks so badly made with no effort put into it. Watch the trailer and I gurantee if you have some sensibility, you will cringe very hard. How can people actually watch these vomit inducing movies let alone pay and go to theatres.

    I honestly feel bad for talented filmmakers in Bollywood. This film will make millions in India and Pakistan all because the audiences are always willing to pay money for this type of filth. People say “don’t watch the movie if you don’t like it” but they don’t get that garbage like this making so much money affects the people who actually want to make or watch quality films. I don’t think Indian or Pakistani audiences will ever learn or perhaps they just don’t want to learn.

    People who are actually going to watch this on Eid are just sad.

    Last edited by DeadBall; 15th May 2018 at 23:14.

  2. #2
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    An average Indian has very low standards that's why they serve up this sort of nonsense, can't really blame the movie makers because they are out there to make money. We have no taste in movies, Bollywood or Kollywood or Tollywood. It is not just restricted to movies, in all walks of life Indians are satisfied with mediocrity, there is no drive to achieve excellence in any field. Be it science/medicine/ maths/arts/literature/sports/cinema...take any field and modern day Indians will be near the bottom. Indians who migrate to USA/Europe etc achieve something because of an environment that breeds excellence. In 2014 Manjul Bhargava got the Fields Medal, this time Akshay Venkatesh is a front runner...would they have done anything in India? More likely they would have done the mandatory engineering course followed by MBA and yet found a way to end up in IT sector and still they would do mundane stuff in IT instead of creating something novel. The South Asian region has more than 20% of the world's population but what is our ranking in innovation in either the sciences or culture? May be after Africa this region is the biggest burden on Planet Earth but hey at least they score higher than us in natural resources.

    We have no culture of excellence in any sphere of life apart from breeding like rabbits and getting offended over trivial matters. Cinema is no different, how many truly great Indian film makers can you name in the last 70 years? Also look at the standard of our TV shows, despicable. People are content with moronic shows, any time they are forced to exercise their brain they get upset and hence punish the movie...this is a country where a Salman Khan movie will earn 500 crores and cinema goers will burn down the hall if you show them Ship of Theseus.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swashbuckler View Post
    An average Indian has very low standards that's why they serve up this sort of nonsense, can't really blame the movie makers because they are out there to make money. We have no taste in movies, Bollywood or Kollywood or Tollywood. It is not just restricted to movies, in all walks of life Indians are satisfied with mediocrity, there is no drive to achieve excellence in any field. Be it science/medicine/ maths/arts/literature/sports/cinema...take any field and modern day Indians will be near the bottom. Indians who migrate to USA/Europe etc achieve something because of an environment that breeds excellence. In 2014 Manjul Bhargava got the Fields Medal, this time Akshay Venkatesh is a front runner...would they have done anything in India? More likely they would have done the mandatory engineering course followed by MBA and yet found a way to end up in IT sector and still they would do mundane stuff in IT instead of creating something novel. The South Asian region has more than 20% of the world's population but what is our ranking in innovation in either the sciences or culture? May be after Africa this region is the biggest burden on Planet Earth but hey at least they score higher than us in natural resources.

    We have no culture of excellence in any sphere of life apart from breeding like rabbits and getting offended over trivial matters. Cinema is no different, how many truly great Indian film makers can you name in the last 70 years? Also look at the standard of our TV shows, despicable. People are content with moronic shows, any time they are forced to exercise their brain they get upset and hence punish the movie...this is a country where a Salman Khan movie will earn 500 crores and cinema goers will burn down the hall if you show them Ship of Theseus.
    Very well said man. Can’t appreciate this post enough

  4. #4
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    It's a salman khan production, what do you expect?


    "Be the best version of yourself"

  5. #5
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    I always thought that Rajinikanth was the worst thing to happen to Indian cinema but this Salman Khan has taken it to a whole new level. If there were a God/Goddess of cinema Salman Khan would be the Dark Lord.

  6. #6
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    Just watched the trailer, so many movies copied. Mad Max, Desperado, Mission Impossible, Skyfall and this was just in 2 minutes.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swashbuckler View Post
    An average Indian has very low standards that's why they serve up this sort of nonsense, can't really blame the movie makers because they are out there to make money. We have no taste in movies, Bollywood or Kollywood or Tollywood. It is not just restricted to movies, in all walks of life Indians are satisfied with mediocrity, there is no drive to achieve excellence in any field. Be it science/medicine/ maths/arts/literature/sports/cinema...take any field and modern day Indians will be near the bottom. Indians who migrate to USA/Europe etc achieve something because of an environment that breeds excellence. In 2014 Manjul Bhargava got the Fields Medal, this time Akshay Venkatesh is a front runner...would they have done anything in India? More likely they would have done the mandatory engineering course followed by MBA and yet found a way to end up in IT sector and still they would do mundane stuff in IT instead of creating something novel. The South Asian region has more than 20% of the world's population but what is our ranking in innovation in either the sciences or culture? May be after Africa this region is the biggest burden on Planet Earth but hey at least they score higher than us in natural resources.

    We have no culture of excellence in any sphere of life apart from breeding like rabbits and getting offended over trivial matters. Cinema is no different, how many truly great Indian film makers can you name in the last 70 years? Also look at the standard of our TV shows, despicable. People are content with moronic shows, any time they are forced to exercise their brain they get upset and hence punish the movie...this is a country where a Salman Khan movie will earn 500 crores and cinema goers will burn down the hall if you show them Ship of Theseus.
    So true man. We South Asians are the biggest burden on the planet and the biggest idiots. May God save us from us. I mean I dont even know where to begin talking about ourselves, everything is negative about us.

  8. #8
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    Race was originally a much, much better series than Don. Saif Ali Khan owned the lead role, completely suited him. Now Salman Egotist Khan has taken over and made it all about him. The entire trailer was just him and his nonesense.

    Not going to watch this, there will be no twists and turns like the actual race

  9. #9
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    Upcoming talented filmmakers now have new avenues to showcase their talent. They don't have to go through the traditional route.


    Check channel named "Teeli" on Facebook. It is a Pakistani production and their videos are top notch. Similarly I saw a few series from "TYF" in India and their quality is equally as good if not better. Obviously they do not have budgets to make full fledged movies but its not like they have absolutely no outlet to showcase their talent.

    I'll link a couple Teeli videos below. For TYF you have to go their website and follow the series. I recommend watching TYF Tripling.






    #Mein inko rolaonga

  10. #10
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    What can you expect when the movie is produced by Salman and directed by Remo
    Remo is trying to be the next Rohit Shetty. Too many flying cars

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swashbuckler View Post
    An average Indian has very low standards that's why they serve up this sort of nonsense, can't really blame the movie makers because they are out there to make money. We have no taste in movies, Bollywood or Kollywood or Tollywood. It is not just restricted to movies, in all walks of life Indians are satisfied with mediocrity, there is no drive to achieve excellence in any field. Be it science/medicine/ maths/arts/literature/sports/cinema...take any field and modern day Indians will be near the bottom. Indians who migrate to USA/Europe etc achieve something because of an environment that breeds excellence. In 2014 Manjul Bhargava got the Fields Medal, this time Akshay Venkatesh is a front runner...would they have done anything in India? More likely they would have done the mandatory engineering course followed by MBA and yet found a way to end up in IT sector and still they would do mundane stuff in IT instead of creating something novel. The South Asian region has more than 20% of the world's population but what is our ranking in innovation in either the sciences or culture? May be after Africa this region is the biggest burden on Planet Earth but hey at least they score higher than us in natural resources.

    We have no culture of excellence in any sphere of life apart from breeding like rabbits and getting offended over trivial matters. Cinema is no different, how many truly great Indian film makers can you name in the last 70 years? Also look at the standard of our TV shows, despicable. People are content with moronic shows, any time they are forced to exercise their brain they get upset and hence punish the movie...this is a country where a Salman Khan movie will earn 500 crores and cinema goers will burn down the hall if you show them Ship of Theseus.
    I tend to disagree.

    People love these movies because they aren't real.

    As life is getting harder professional and personal wise, people tend to resort to something which is totally unrelated to the real life.

    And these movies serve the purpose. Even I, who dislike these movies, will go out and watch. Not because I have a high appreciation for the movie but because it's just another occasion of hanging out with friends where as rest of the days, I won't even get time to look at news even.

    Having said that, the OP aliased has a great taste in movies and if I'll be wondering what next movie to watch, he'll be the person whom I'll ask. So I am sure he has every valid reason to criticize this movie. But may be.... All the conclusion that are being drawn, is getting mislead.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swashbuckler View Post
    An average Indian has very low standards that's why they serve up this sort of nonsense, can't really blame the movie makers because they are out there to make money. We have no taste in movies, Bollywood or Kollywood or Tollywood. It is not just restricted to movies, in all walks of life Indians are satisfied with mediocrity, there is no drive to achieve excellence in any field. Be it science/medicine/ maths/arts/literature/sports/cinema...take any field and modern day Indians will be near the bottom. Indians who migrate to USA/Europe etc achieve something because of an environment that breeds excellence. In 2014 Manjul Bhargava got the Fields Medal, this time Akshay Venkatesh is a front runner...would they have done anything in India? More likely they would have done the mandatory engineering course followed by MBA and yet found a way to end up in IT sector and still they would do mundane stuff in IT instead of creating something novel. The South Asian region has more than 20% of the world's population but what is our ranking in innovation in either the sciences or culture? May be after Africa this region is the biggest burden on Planet Earth but hey at least they score higher than us in natural resources.

    We have no culture of excellence in any sphere of life apart from breeding like rabbits and getting offended over trivial matters. Cinema is no different, how many truly great Indian film makers can you name in the last 70 years? Also look at the standard of our TV shows, despicable. People are content with moronic shows, any time they are forced to exercise their brain they get upset and hence punish the movie...this is a country where a Salman Khan movie will earn 500 crores and cinema goers will burn down the hall if you show them Ship of Theseus.
    Breeding like rabbits is an accomplishment too. Be proud of it. 1 billion and counting....


    “I am not young enough to know everything.”

    ― Oscar Wilde

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by aliasad1998 View Post
    This trailer of ‘Race 3’. I don’t mind mindless action but this just looks so badly made with no effort put into it. Watch the trailer and I gurantee if you have some sensibility, you will cringe very hard. How can people actually watch these vomit inducing movies let alone pay and go to theatres.

    I honestly feel bad for talented filmmakers in Bollywood. This film will make millions in India and Pakistan all because the audiences are always willing to pay money for this type of filth. People say “don’t watch the movie if you don’t like it” but they don’t get that garbage like this making so much money affects the people who actually want to make or watch quality films. I don’t think Indian or Pakistani audiences will ever learn or perhaps they just don’t want to learn.

    People who are actually going to watch this on Eid are just sad.

    Yes the action is unrealistic but atleast it looks entertaining!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by aliasad1998 View Post

    I actually liked the trailer....it made me laugh out loud which is very hard nowadays. This happened around 2 mins into the trailer when Salman (midget on steroids) Khan emphatically states as he is putting a pair of womens mirrored sunglasses while sporting a hideous looking thick silver chain on one of his wrist, as the camera dramatically zooms on him.... "Us Race ka Sikandar main noon" as he does a quick double handed hair grooming move....what a classic!...how can you you not pay money to watch him do that on a giant screen...I would be in spilts.


    “I am not young enough to know everything.”

    ― Oscar Wilde

  15. #15
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    Looking worse than craps dhoom3/dilwale / fast &furious etc.

  16. #16
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    Ambitious and talented filmmakers don't watch this junk. Salman Khan fans do.

    What's so sad about both sides doing their thing?

  17. #17
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    Most of the action films be it Holly or Bolly are the same. Not sure why you felt pukish after watching this trailer!

    Has anyone seen Transformers 3? It was pure garbage and box office wise was the top grosser that year! Not everyone would want to watch Forrest Gump/ Martian/ Nolan films... to each their own and it has got nothing to do with sensibilities of a place/ region.


    ...

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swashbuckler View Post
    An average Indian has very low standards that's why they serve up this sort of nonsense, can't really blame the movie makers because they are out there to make money. We have no taste in movies, Bollywood or Kollywood or Tollywood. It is not just restricted to movies, in all walks of life Indians are satisfied with mediocrity, there is no drive to achieve excellence in any field. Be it science/medicine/ maths/arts/literature/sports/cinema...take any field and modern day Indians will be near the bottom. Indians who migrate to USA/Europe etc achieve something because of an environment that breeds excellence. In 2014 Manjul Bhargava got the Fields Medal, this time Akshay Venkatesh is a front runner...would they have done anything in India? More likely they would have done the mandatory engineering course followed by MBA and yet found a way to end up in IT sector and still they would do mundane stuff in IT instead of creating something novel. The South Asian region has more than 20% of the world's population but what is our ranking in innovation in either the sciences or culture? May be after Africa this region is the biggest burden on Planet Earth but hey at least they score higher than us in natural resources.

    We have no culture of excellence in any sphere of life apart from breeding like rabbits and getting offended over trivial matters. Cinema is no different, how many truly great Indian film makers can you name in the last 70 years? Also look at the standard of our TV shows, despicable. People are content with moronic shows, any time they are forced to exercise their brain they get upset and hence punish the movie...this is a country where a Salman Khan movie will earn 500 crores and cinema goers will burn down the hall if you show them Ship of Theseus.
    lol this is one of the most epic rants i have read on PP and i have been following the forum for close to a decade now!

    And is so true!


    #MPGA

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by aliasad1998 View Post
    This trailer of ‘Race 3’. I don’t mind mindless action but this just looks so badly made with no effort put into it. Watch the trailer and I gurantee if you have some sensibility, you will cringe very hard. How can people actually watch these vomit inducing movies let alone pay and go to theatres.

    I honestly feel bad for talented filmmakers in Bollywood. This film will make millions in India and Pakistan all because the audiences are always willing to pay money for this type of filth. People say “don’t watch the movie if you don’t like it” but they don’t get that garbage like this making so much money affects the people who actually want to make or watch quality films. I don’t think Indian or Pakistani audiences will ever learn or perhaps they just don’t want to learn.

    People who are actually going to watch this on Eid are just sad.

    Not too different from the rubbish I saw in FnF7 (watched some of it due to Statham being in it) which is the 6th highest grosser of all time. Action films are usually chock full of such stunts and dialogue and this is no different

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by saadibaba View Post
    Breeding like rabbits is an accomplishment too. Be proud of it. 1 billion and counting....
    that apply to you also man 200 million and counting

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by aliasad1998 View Post
    This trailer of ‘Race 3’. I don’t mind mindless action but this just looks so badly made with no effort put into it. Watch the trailer and I gurantee if you have some sensibility, you will cringe very hard. How can people actually watch these vomit inducing movies let alone pay and go to theatres.

    I honestly feel bad for talented filmmakers in Bollywood. This film will make millions in India and Pakistan all because the audiences are always willing to pay money for this type of filth. People say “don’t watch the movie if you don’t like it” but they don’t get that garbage like this making so much money affects the people who actually want to make or watch quality films. I don’t think Indian or Pakistani audiences will ever learn or perhaps they just don’t want to learn.

    People who are actually going to watch this on Eid are just sad.

    this remind me of this song

  22. #22
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    The only thing this movie is missing is Dwayne Johnson. The muscle head is the perfect actor for third rate action movies.

  23. #23
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    Mughals and the Ottomans are responsible for the decline of South Asia and Middle East, who were well ahead of Western Europe before the Renaissance, but their rule saw a terminal decline in education, science, learning and philosophy etc.

    The ban on the printing press in the Ottoman Empire says it all. Over the generations, they undid all the great work of the Abbasid Caliphate, while the Mughals were busy inventing dishes and erecting structures to honor their wives and mistresses.

    Nothing good has come out of these two empires, in spite of ruling for centuries. The gap that they created between the West and the East from 1400 CE onwards will never be reversed.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaptan View Post
    What can you expect when the movie is produced by Salman and directed by Remo
    Remo is trying to be the next Rohit Shetty. Too many flying cars
    Missing the point entirely, and one of the reasons this sort of stuff still sells. Doesn't matter who produces it, that is only looking at the symptom not the disease. I haven't watched Bollywood films since I was a 12 year old because, in truth, that is the mental age you need to be to watch most of them.

    Kudos to the producers for beefing up the special effects and camera work, but while the slavish copying of Hollywood has produced dividends in this respect, the storyline, script and heart of the films are of course non-existent because Indians don't understand what inspires them. Great thread, will contribute more thoughts later.


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Mughals and the Ottomans are responsible for the decline of South Asia and Middle East, who were well ahead of Western Europe before the Renaissance, but their rule saw a terminal decline in education, science, learning and philosophy etc.

    The ban on the printing press in the Ottoman Empire says it all. Over the generations, they undid all the great work of the Abbasid Caliphate, while the Mughals were busy inventing dishes and erecting structures to honor their wives and mistresses.

    Nothing good has come out of these two empires, in spite of ruling for centuries. The gap that they created between the West and the East from 1400 CE onwards will never be reversed.
    Dear Lord, just where do you start? Are you devastated that your beloved India is producing such garbage?


    Don't take it personally Mamoon, it's got nothing to do with you ( I don't think).


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

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    Waiting for @IgnitedMind to show up and say that this abomination is a classic because it appeals to the brainless salman fans.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    Dear Lord, just where do you start? Are you devastated that your beloved India is producing such garbage?

    Don't take it personally Mamoon, it's got nothing to do with you ( I don't think).
    This garbage is not limited to India only. Take a look at the nonsense action movies that Dwayne Johnson spearheads and the dollars that they earn. There is a market for commercial movies everywhere - a 3 hour past time, that's all.

    I am more interested in the discourse of the decline of the South Asian culture. I largely agree with Swashbuckler, and the seeds of the decline were planted by the Mughals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadBall View Post
    Just watched the trailer, so many movies copied. Mad Max, Desperado, Mission Impossible, Skyfall and this was just in 2 minutes.
    Is there any 'movie' in bollywood which is not copied from Hollywood or Korean or South Indian movies? I don't think so.

  29. #29
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    Pretty much the entire movie is copied.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    This garbage is not limited to India only. Take a look at the nonsense action movies that Dwayne Johnson spearheads and the dollars that they earn. There is a market for commercial movies everywhere - a 3 hour past time, that's all.

    I am more interested in the discourse of the decline of the South Asian culture. I largely agree with Swashbuckler, and the seeds of the decline were planted by the Mughals.
    The Mughals were over and done with 300 years ago, long before the age of film. There have been decent Indian movies once every few years so apparently some creative spark is still able to break through the curse of Tutankhamen so all is not lost. Really, it isn't.


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

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    Business Business
    What exactly is business of cast in this movie?

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    At least the special effects arent like the old Indian movies. I remember sunny deol's action scene in the movie "Farz". He was on ground, chasing a flying helicopter. He stepped on a mine and instead of getting blown into pieces the blast pushed him up in the air and he caught hold of some part of the helicopter. He obviously proceeded to use his 2.5kg fist to beat the living hell out of the villains who even in the movie appeared to be baffled by what was happening to them

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    The Mughals were over and done with 300 years ago, long before the age of film. There have been decent Indian movies once every few years so apparently some creative spark is still able to break through the curse of Tutankhamen so all is not lost. Really, it isn't.
    Swashbuckler's post was valid but off-topic, because I do agree that commercial movies have nothing to do with the decline of South Asian culture, since even Hollywood makes a lot of money from these types of movies.

    The fact that Dwayne Johnson is the highest-paid actor in Hollywood today sums up the standards of Hollywood and the taste of the American consumer. That is why I prefer to stick to TV shows. Netflix has better content than both Hollywood and Bollywood.

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    We have had some high quality Indian movies post 1947, in fact the ratio of good to bad was quite decent even till the 70s. Then something happened, the number of bad movies just multiplied dozen fold and kept getting worse and worse every passing year. Even today there are a few young film makers making excellent movies but all of that is overshadowed by the nonsense generated by the bigger production houses. How can a young director continue to push the creative boundaries when his/her product isn't finding the market? No wonder the creative juices are drying up among the younger breed and they are forced to be mediocre and thus more in tune with the easily content, mediocre masses. I won't blame education or IQ for this downfall because you had Satyajit Ray, Bimal Roy and Guru Dutt churning out masterpieces in an era when our education/literacy levels were much worse than today. Even till recent times the local Bengali and Malayalam industries had creative, thought provoking movies but alas even the final frontiers have been breached by the dark forces. Now there is a spark in Tamil Nadu where experimental film makers are making good, low budget movies and also have some takers.....let us see how long this movement lasts but I have a pessimistic outlook.

    I think more than anything our people have no taste, this applies even to the rich. May be in the initial years after Independence there was some carryover effect of the British Raj. Unlike many South Asians I think the British rule had some positive effect on India. They taught us manners, they brought modern technology to our landmass, they brought education/medicine to the ignorant Indians, they brought in the concept of sports, they brought an end to social evils prevalent in our society, they taught us to have a rational outlook. Not just that they helped us realize our own past, without British archeologists we would never have known about the Harappan civilization or most things about our ancient past. Doesn't matter whether we were a mighty force once upon a time or not, when the Europeans came we were at our nadir and needed them to get us out of the hole and usher our civilization to modernity. Even in arts, culture, literature the Brits revived what we had lost over the centuries. They also happened to teach us cinema and exposed us to all the tools of cinema making. I believe our initial success in film making was courtesy the experience under the British. When that generation died out we started returning to our basic instincts which had been tempered for so long under the boots of the white sahibs. Think about who our greatest minds have been in the last 100 years? Ramanujam, CV Raman, Abdus Salam, Subramanyam Chandrasekhar, Har Gobind Khorana, Iqbal, Mr Jinnah, Nehru, Ambedkar, Tagore, Satyajit Ray, Amartya Sen, Mahbub Ul Huq......all are from a time when they spent their formative years under British institutions. This after effect lasted for about 20 years post independence, after that it was back to our native roots. It is no coincidence that we have stopped producing great minds on our shores because we are incapable of innovation, we can't stimulate creativity here, we don't challenge our excellence here. Most (if not all) of the Indians and Pakistanis who have achieved something on the creative front have been from Western institutions. Same set of people with similar DNA, culture and roots are mechanized robots in one place and they shape the future of the world in another place (winning Nobel Prize, Abel Prize, Fields Medal etc on the way), go figure. Since I am a chess fan I can share an anecdote by 5 time World Champion Viswanathan Anand. He had once come to my college for a talk and in his interaction with students said he improved his game outside India. As a youngster he lived for a while in Philippines and made a great leap in his playing strength. Later in the 90s when he was at his peak and had to fight with great rivals like Karpov, Kasparov, Kramnik etc he made a conscious decision to shift base to Spain leaving his old parents alone in Chennai. The only reason he did this was because he felt playing in India in local tournaments, interacting with other Indian GMs etc was stifling his creativity and making him complacent. He needed to shift his base at the age of 26 to Europe because the environment there was better suited to unleash his creative potential, now if that isn't a damning indictment on India, don't know what is. Only after he accomplished what he always dreamt of, winning multiple titles did he return back to Chennai and when he returned he was a 42 year old homesick man with nothing left to prove to anyone. His playing strength suffered a great dip post 2012 but aside from advancing age his shift to India too is a valid reason for his decline.

    With passing time the British institutions (that serve us till date) are slowly dying and we have proved to be incapable of coming up with better alternatives. The one thing that we had so long was the time tested robust British era system passed on to us post 1947 and we are destroying it. Once that link collapses I see darker days ahead.

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    The dialogues...

    My ears......

    My ears......

    Cringe baby cringe.

    By the way, i wasn't able to go beyond 1 min of this trailer.
    Last edited by sensible-indian-fan; 16th May 2018 at 13:21.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Swashbuckler's post was valid but off-topic, because I do agree that commercial movies have nothing to do with the decline of South Asian culture, since even Hollywood makes a lot of money from these types of movies.

    The fact that Dwayne Johnson is the highest-paid actor in Hollywood today sums up the standards of Hollywood and the taste of the American consumer. That is why I prefer to stick to TV shows. Netflix has better content than both Hollywood and Bollywood.
    My post had nothing to do with Swashbuckler's contribution, I was addressing your ludicrous idea that somehow the Mughal dynasty was to blame for the the dearth of quality in Indian cinema. If you don't want to have to defend such ludicrous statements I would suggest think before typing them in the first place.


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    Movie gonna break 300 crore easy..

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    Only in my 3rd attempt could I go through this trailer in one go and already in trauma. How can normal people watch 3 hours of this nonsense?

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    There were 44 seconds left and I couldnt do it anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swashbuckler View Post
    Only in my 3rd attempt could I go through this trailer in one go and already in trauma. How can normal people watch 3 hours of this nonsense?
    Because they're not normal, that's why.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    My post had nothing to do with Swashbuckler's contribution, I was addressing your ludicrous idea that somehow the Mughal dynasty was to blame for the the dearth of quality in Indian cinema. If you don't want to have to defend such ludicrous statements I would suggest think before typing them in the first place.
    Except that it was not my idea in the first place.

    As I said, my rant on Mughals was in response to Swashbucker's post in which he claimed that South Asia is lagging behind the west when it comes science and innovation, and the Mughals are directly responsible for that.

    It had nothing to do with Bollywood's commercial movies that are no better or worse than Hollywood commercial movies in terms of plot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Except that it was not my idea in the first place.

    As I said, my rant on Mughals was in response to Swashbucker's post in which he claimed that South Asia is lagging behind the west when it comes science and innovation, and the Mughals are directly responsible for that.

    It had nothing to do with Bollywood's commercial movies that are no better or worse than Hollywood commercial movies in terms of plot.

    Then you should also have taken note of his follow up post where he noted:

    We have had some high quality Indian movies post 1947, in fact the ratio of good to bad was quite decent even till the 70s. Then something happened, the number of bad movies just multiplied dozen fold and kept getting worse and worse every passing year.
    So as you can see, quality film making isn't directly related to Mughal empire from 300 years ago except in those who take comfort in victim mode, which is all the more ironical considering you call out certain nationalities on it when it suits your purpose.


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    Tell Me, if you Post the Same thread for Hollywood When you see trailers for Fast and Furios or Bay Watch or whatever !!

    There are all Kinds of Movies making money in Bollywood

    Just Last week we Had Raazi....And so many great films in the last decade.

    This young film maker can wake up and look at those movies....more movies which are offbeat are making money and becoming huge successes in India.

    Show this false empathy else where !

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    This young Film maker whoever he is can look at

    Newton, Trapped, Omerta, Udaan, Raazi, Waiting, Gangs of Wasseypur, Neerja, Kahaani, English Vinglish, Dev D, Lootera, Tamasha, Wake up Sid, Piku, October, Vicky Donor, MArgharita with a straw, Highway, Special 26 ....so many many movies....all of these in the last 4 to 5 years. And I had missed listing most of them.

    Why would he watch Race 3 and get discouraged?

    Do you think Hollywood writers will get discouraged after watching the action drivels and franshises that come out?

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    Quote Originally Posted by IgnitedMind View Post
    Tell Me, if you Post the Same thread for Hollywood When you see trailers for Fast and Furios or Bay Watch or whatever !!

    There are all Kinds of Movies making money in Bollywood

    Just Last week we Had Raazi....And so many great films in the last decade.

    This young film maker can wake up and look at those movies....more movies which are offbeat are making money and becoming huge successes in India.

    Show this false empathy else where !
    And this is why copywood thrives and mints money, because we have educated and intelligent folk like my friend patronizing and promoting it. Imagine, this guy made a PP career by posting on bollywood related stuff and still makes an appearance like a spirit does when summoned through a planchette whenever there is a thread criticising bollywood.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swashbuckler View Post
    An average Indian has very low standards that's why they serve up this sort of nonsense, can't really blame the movie makers because they are out there to make money. We have no taste in movies, Bollywood or Kollywood or Tollywood. It is not just restricted to movies, in all walks of life Indians are satisfied with mediocrity, there is no drive to achieve excellence in any field. Be it science/medicine/ maths/arts/literature/sports/cinema...take any field and modern day Indians will be near the bottom. Indians who migrate to USA/Europe etc achieve something because of an environment that breeds excellence. In 2014 Manjul Bhargava got the Fields Medal, this time Akshay Venkatesh is a front runner...would they have done anything in India? More likely they would have done the mandatory engineering course followed by MBA and yet found a way to end up in IT sector and still they would do mundane stuff in IT instead of creating something novel. The South Asian region has more than 20% of the world's population but what is our ranking in innovation in either the sciences or culture? May be after Africa this region is the biggest burden on Planet Earth but hey at least they score higher than us in natural resources.

    We have no culture of excellence in any sphere of life apart from breeding like rabbits and getting offended over trivial matters. Cinema is no different, how many truly great Indian film makers can you name in the last 70 years? Also look at the standard of our TV shows, despicable. People are content with moronic shows, any time they are forced to exercise their brain they get upset and hence punish the movie...this is a country where a Salman Khan movie will earn 500 crores and cinema goers will burn down the hall if you show them Ship of Theseus.
    Can relate to what you have said. Excellent post

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    Quote Originally Posted by IgnitedMind View Post
    Tell Me, if you Post the Same thread for Hollywood When you see trailers for Fast and Furios or Bay Watch or whatever !!

    There are all Kinds of Movies making money in Bollywood

    Just Last week we Had Raazi....And so many great films in the last decade.

    This young film maker can wake up and look at those movies....more movies which are offbeat are making money and becoming huge successes in India.

    Show this false empathy else where !
    I think you are getting too defensive. Hollywood surely has some rubbish movies, but they churn out a good number of big hits every year, those are the ones which are talked about by movie goers world wide. I could be wrong, but aren't even Bollywood's big smash hit films of the year as cringeworthy as the one mentioned in the OP?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    Then you should also have taken note of his follow up post where he noted:



    So as you can see, quality film making isn't directly related to Mughal empire from 300 years ago except in those who take comfort in victim mode, which is all the more ironical considering you call out certain nationalities on it when it suits your purpose.
    I did not take note of his views on the decline of Indian cinema because I do not have an explanation for why the Indian cinema has declined. I only focused on the part of his post where he stated that South Asia has not made any contributions to the modern world, since I do have an explanation for that.

    Linking the decline of Indian cinema to the Mughals is your imagination, not mine.

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    There 400 Movies made in India...of all of kinds ...From stupid action pot boilers to niche sensitive cinema. Let them co-exist...Any industry needs money from the big summer movies to bring in the audience who intern will fuel the niche cinema..

    That is how all successful movie industries work.....otherwise they would be restricted to Iranian cinema kind where 2 good movies come in 2 years and "intellectual" cinema goers will do gaga over for the one decade.
    Last edited by DeadBall; 16th May 2018 at 15:46.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    I think you are getting too defensive. Hollywood surely has some rubbish movies, but they churn out a good number of big hits every year, those are the ones which are talked about by movie goers world wide. I could be wrong, but aren't even Bollywood's big smash hit films of the year as cringeworthy as the one mentioned in the OP?
    Nope. Also its based on what you call it a small ****...Because SRK or a Salman film will make 300 crores irrespective of how **** it is...but their budgets will also be 200 crores...and will be among the top 10 Grossed movies.

    But Every year there are so many movies which are made with small budgets of 5 to 20 crores...which rake in 100 crore and get critically acclaimed too.

    For the last Few years, there has been healthy mix of good cinema doing financially and critically well...and some action drivels which make money... Just like any other financially successful industry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rahul1 View Post
    Waiting for @IgnitedMind to show up and say that this abomination is a classic because it appeals to the brainless salman fans.
    Brother, I dont support the movie.

    All I am saying...you dont have to Generalize the industry based on stupidity like these movies....

    Like we Dont generalize Hollywood by movies made by the Rock..

    We choose the best movies from Hollywood and watch it...and Go Gaga over it..

    Lets also do the same for Bollywood...choose the movies of your taste and liking and watch it.

    there are handfull of nice cinema that comes in Bollywood ...watch them.

    People here are going to the Mughal era and over analyzing the situation

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    I did not take note of his views on the decline of Indian cinema because I do not have an explanation for why the Indian cinema has declined. I only focused on the part of his post where he stated that South Asia has not made any contributions to the modern world, since I do have an explanation for that.

    Linking the decline of Indian cinema to the Mughals is your imagination, not mine.
    Yes of course, it was me who brought in the Mughals in this thread, which is one about a crappy Bollywood movie trailer. I don't really want to derail this thread any further so won't be replying to any more of your suggestions, whether they are musings on Mughals, King Rameses II or Tutankhamen, so feel free to go whichever direction suits best.


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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    The dialogues...

    My ears......

    My ears......

    Cringe baby cringe.

    By the way, i wasn't able to go beyond 1 min of this trailer.
    Aren't you a Rajnikanth fan and considered him Charismatic? Pmsl

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    For Example , Lets take 2017...

    Top 10 Gorssing Films in Hollywood were Thor, SpiderMan, Justice League, Guradians of the Galaxy,Pirates of the Carribearn, IT, Wonder Women , Beuty and beast, Descipible me 3...All Franchises and reboots .

    But You ask people here the best movies of 2017 were They would say Dunkirk, Get our, Baby Driver, Shape of Water, Disaster Artist and few more Movies.

    But Somehow Bollywood is judged by movies which collect the most

    Yes, the highest collected Bollywood movies in 2017 were Tiger Zinda Hai and Raess and all Star Vehicles. But in the Top 10 collected there were also Hindi Medium,, secrete Super star which were not star vehicles....but movies that ran on content

    And also in 2017...There was Newton, Lipstick under by Burkah, Trapped and a few more

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    Quote Originally Posted by hafeezrocks View Post
    Aren't you a Rajnikanth fan and considered him Charismatic? Pmsl
    This is the hollowness of the intellectual wannabes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CricketCartoons View Post
    This is the hollowness of the intellectual wannabes.
    Compared to Salman Khan, Rajini movies make a lot of sense. So I won't judge him harshly here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swashbuckler View Post
    Compared to Salman Khan, Rajini movies make a lot of sense. So I won't judge him harshly here.
    How so?

    I am from South India too...I have watched Rajni from the 80s...and Followed bollywood as well.

    How is Rajnikanth after Basha (1995) any different from Salman Movies...

    you know what...atleast Salman sells Mindless entertainment like Mindless Entertainment....People who watch it ...dont expect anything else..

    But life lessons Rajni gives to his fans in the masala movies he makes....and ulterior political agenda....it is actually worse..

    And I was watching Padiyappa (1999) recently when I came across youtube...it was a film I enjoyed a lot as a kid and have great memories....but Man....number of misogynistic Dialogues in that movie were super hard to watch and I lost respect to the movie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swashbuckler View Post
    Compared to Salman Khan, Rajini movies make a lot of sense. So I won't judge him harshly here.
    Agreed..my friend who only excels in everything he does and doesnt settle for mediority.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Swashbuckler View Post
    An average Indian has very low standards that's why they serve up this sort of nonsense, can't really blame the movie makers because they are out there to make money. We have no taste in movies, Bollywood or Kollywood or Tollywood. It is not just restricted to movies, in all walks of life Indians are satisfied with mediocrity, there is no drive to achieve excellence in any field. Be it science/medicine/ maths/arts/literature/sports/cinema...take any field and modern day Indians will be near the bottom. Indians who migrate to USA/Europe etc achieve something because of an environment that breeds excellence. In 2014 Manjul Bhargava got the Fields Medal, this time Akshay Venkatesh is a front runner...would they have done anything in India? More likely they would have done the mandatory engineering course followed by MBA and yet found a way to end up in IT sector and still they would do mundane stuff in IT instead of creating something novel. The South Asian region has more than 20% of the world's population but what is our ranking in innovation in either the sciences or culture? May be after Africa this region is the biggest burden on Planet Earth but hey at least they score higher than us in natural resources.

    We have no culture of excellence in any sphere of life apart from breeding like rabbits and getting offended over trivial matters. Cinema is no different, how many truly great Indian film makers can you name in the last 70 years? Also look at the standard of our TV shows, despicable. People are content with moronic shows, any time they are forced to exercise their brain they get upset and hence punish the movie...this is a country where a Salman Khan movie will earn 500 crores and cinema goers will burn down the hall if you show them Ship of Theseus.
    Sorry to say but you have no idea what you're talking about. There are many brilliant mathematicians in India as well (at CMI, ISI, etc).

    And again, taste is subjective. I find the above trailer to be rubbish, but someone may like it, and that's their opinion. That doesn't mean they have low standards just because they enjoy something that I don't like.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swashbuckler View Post
    Compared to Salman Khan, Rajini movies make a lot of sense. So I won't judge him harshly here.
    .
    The bias has come out well, not only did you paint an average Indian to have a poor choice which btw is no diff from someone that makes Fast and furious series successful around the world, you also showed a bias.

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    No one burnt the theater for Ship of thesus , you are talking as if BLUE Valentine was a huge hit ?
    Somehow many posters from TN have this self hating ability which is weird, it's one thing to have constructive criticism and another to see only one side of the argument.
    @Swashbuckler

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    What's the diff between this and fast and furious series or ,random Will Ferrell movie?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JaDed View Post
    What's the diff between this and fast and furious series or ,random Will Ferrell movie?
    Never watched a Fast and Furious film but weren't they original in concept and not copied from some other film industry?


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    Quote Originally Posted by IgnitedMind View Post
    For Example , Lets take 2017...

    Top 10 Gorssing Films in Hollywood were Thor, SpiderMan, Justice League, Guradians of the Galaxy,Pirates of the Carribearn, IT, Wonder Women , Beuty and beast, Descipible me 3...All Franchises and reboots .

    But You ask people here the best movies of 2017 were They would say Dunkirk, Get our, Baby Driver, Shape of Water, Disaster Artist and few more Movies.

    But Somehow Bollywood is judged by movies which collect the most

    Yes, the highest collected Bollywood movies in 2017 were Tiger Zinda Hai and Raess and all Star Vehicles. But in the Top 10 collected there were also Hindi Medium,, secrete Super star which were not star vehicles....but movies that ran on content

    And also in 2017...There was Newton, Lipstick under by Burkah, Trapped and a few more
    So which of those top 10 Bollywood films 2017 would compare to the top 10 Hollywood fims 2107 for originality and critical acclaim? Reboots still count as they are still often highly acclaimed, you can apply the same standards to Bollywood films in the interest of fairness.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    So which of those top 10 Bollywood films 2017 would compare to the top 10 Hollywood fims 2107 for originality and critical acclaim? Reboots still count as they are still often highly acclaimed, you can apply the same standards to Bollywood films in the interest of fairness.
    They Dont compare....Hollywood is better !

    But Bollywood with in its limitations....there were pot boilers for the Indian audience.

    Leaving box office aside...I firmly believe the Good Cinema in India ...is comparable to the Good cinema in hollywood. The Masala pot Boilers in Bollywood do not compare well to the Masala pot boilers in the west....due to budgets, Comic culture...and everything associated with the Bollywood film making.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JaDed View Post
    .
    The bias has come out well, not only did you paint an average Indian to have a poor choice which btw is no diff from someone that makes Fast and furious series successful around the world, you also showed a bias.
    I never said I like Rajini, simply said his movies made more sense than Salman. I don't like Rajini movies at all, have never watched a single movie of his since I turned 12. It would be bias if I actually admired him, but no he represents everything that is wrong with Tamil cinema.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IgnitedMind View Post
    How so?

    I am from South India too...I have watched Rajni from the 80s...and Followed bollywood as well.

    How is Rajnikanth after Basha (1995) any different from Salman Movies...

    you know what...atleast Salman sells Mindless entertainment like Mindless Entertainment....People who watch it ...dont expect anything else..

    But life lessons Rajni gives to his fans in the masala movies he makes....and ulterior political agenda....it is actually worse..

    And I was watching Padiyappa (1999) recently when I came across youtube...it was a film I enjoyed a lot as a kid and have great memories....but Man....number of misogynistic Dialogues in that movie were super hard to watch and I lost respect to the movie.
    In the 80s Rajini had some ok movies, after he became a superstar he has delivered only awful movies which make no sense whatsoever. Kamal Haasan is a true gem of the Indian film industry, yet always played 2nd fiddle to Rajini..if that doesn't spell out our taste in movies what does?

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sachin136 View Post
    Sorry to say but you have no idea what you're talking about. There are many brilliant mathematicians in India as well (at CMI, ISI, etc).

    And again, taste is subjective. I find the above trailer to be rubbish, but someone may like it, and that's their opinion. That doesn't mean they have low standards just because they enjoy something that I don't like.
    There are many brilliant mathematicians but not enough elite class mathematicians who will make the world stand up and take notice. Btw we also have many brilliant athletes, only that they won't even qualify for Olympics finals, also many brilliant movie stars who somehow don't capture the imagination of true cinema lovers from around the world. It depends on how you define the term 'brilliant'.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swashbuckler View Post
    There are many brilliant mathematicians but not enough elite class mathematicians who will make the world stand up and take notice. Btw we also have many brilliant athletes, only that they won't even qualify for Olympics finals, also many brilliant movie stars who somehow don't capture the imagination of true cinema lovers from around the world. It depends on how you define the term 'brilliant'.
    What do you mea by "make the world stand up and take notice"? People in academia in NA and Europe are aware of those brilliant Indian mathematicians. The general public doesn't know most brilliant scientists except those who have done pop science stuff.

    "also many brilliant movie stars who somehow don't capture the imagination of true cinema lovers from around the world"

    All that matters is that the Indian public likes it. And even if our movies were some of the greatest to ever be made, people outside of India still wouldn't watch them.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sachin136 View Post
    What do you mea by "make the world stand up and take notice"? People in academia in NA and Europe are aware of those brilliant Indian mathematicians. The general public doesn't know most brilliant scientists except those who have done pop science stuff.

    "also many brilliant movie stars who somehow don't capture the imagination of true cinema lovers from around the world"

    All that matters is that the Indian public likes it. And even if our movies were some of the greatest to ever be made, people outside of India still wouldn't watch them.
    We have good institutes for higher education and research like IISc, ISI, CMI, TIFR etc but they are merely good/v.good, not elite. There are dozens of institutes better even in East Asia, forget America or Europe. Ambitious students who are passionate about research look to do post doc and join some lab elsewhere, never India. I never said we lack the ability, I said the culture here can't push us to be the best versions of ourselves. The best talent has to leave India precisely because of this reason. To make great academicians, you need a great environment which India can't offer.

    Regarding movies, if only the opinion of Indian public counts then extending this logic every film industry is at the same level. Pakistanis will love Pakistani movies, Somalians will love their movies, etc. That is the textbook definition of mediocrity. That is the difference between great film industries like Hollywood/UK/Japan and all the 'woods' of South Asia. See even in naming our film industries we can't be creative, just cheap rip offs of Hollywood. Kollywood, Tollywood, Mollywood, Sandalwood, Lollywood, Bollywood.....can't you see how pathetic this looks when we can't even come up with original names for our film industries? Again coming back to your last para, how can you be so sure that people outside India won't watch our quality movies? Satyajit Ray is famous all over the world and Raj Kapoor enjoyed great status in Eastern Europe and USSR. If you make quality stuff everyone will appreciate, there is no conspiracy at play against all things Indian.Same with TV series: what is India's best? How does it compare with the best of the West?

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swashbuckler View Post
    I never said I like Rajini, simply said his movies made more sense than Salman. I don't like Rajini movies at all, have never watched a single movie of his since I turned 12. It would be bias if I actually admired him, but no he represents everything that is wrong with Tamil cinema.
    I like Rajnikanth movies , what Padayappa is to me Phantom thread will be nothing compared to that.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    Never watched a Fast and Furious film but weren't they original in concept and not copied from some other film industry?
    And what is that concept? Could you please say what concept that is , Race 1 and 2 didn't seem copied , someone can enlighten me if it was.

    Also remember Point break and Donnie Brassco had come much before fast and furious.

  73. #73
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    Watched Race 3 trailer/movie. Didn't like it and was thinking what have I just watched. Then after few minutes I watched 'Manto' trailer now I am feeling better and not confused.

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    That was so bad...

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhaag Viru Bhaag View Post
    Watched Race 3 trailer/movie. Didn't like it and was thinking what have I just watched. Then after few minutes I watched 'Manto' trailer now I am feeling better and not confused.
    The original Pakistani masterpiece or the Indian remake? Haven't watched the Indian version yet but should be good if Nawazuddin is in it.

  76. #76
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    I have watched like 2 bollywood movies in past 5-6 years. Don't know how this happened , cos used to catch a movie or two in a month . Think of it , haven't watched a movie of Varun Dhawan , Siddharth (?) , Alia Bhatt ..who apparently are at the top these days ?
    Anyway looks like I haven't missed much though .

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    Yes of course, it was me who brought in the Mughals in this thread, which is one about a crappy Bollywood movie trailer. I don't really want to derail this thread any further so won't be replying to any more of your suggestions, whether they are musings on Mughals, King Rameses II or Tutankhamen, so feel free to go whichever direction suits best.
    I brought Mughals into the thread because Swashbuckler talked about the decline of South Asia in science and innovation. It was an off-topic post and the discussion went off a tangent. You have been here longer than me to know that there are no fixed rules that dictate the flow of discussion on this forum. Nearly every other thread goes off-topic, since one topic leads to another.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Swashbuckler's post was valid but off-topic, because I do agree that commercial movies have nothing to do with the decline of South Asian culture, since even Hollywood makes a lot of money from these types of movies.

    The fact that Dwayne Johnson is the highest-paid actor in Hollywood today sums up the standards of Hollywood and the taste of the American consumer. That is why I prefer to stick to TV shows. Netflix has better content than both Hollywood and Bollywood.
    watch 'ertugrul' on netflix, it will change your opinion on the early ottomans, those who fought to ensure islam would not die out to the byzantines and the mongols. There is no doubt that the latter period of the ottomans was bad and how they banned the printing press was a big error. Oh and its probably one of the best tv shows out there right now, forget about GOT, forget about the walking dead, suits, the 100 or anything else, Resurrection Ertugrul is the best tv show you will watch.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by jusarrived View Post
    I have watched like 2 bollywood movies in past 5-6 years. Don't know how this happened , cos used to catch a movie or two in a month . Think of it , haven't watched a movie of Varun Dhawan , Siddharth (?) , Alia Bhatt ..who apparently are at the top these days ?
    Anyway looks like I haven't missed much though .
    You have missed some good movies bro like Kahaani, Kapoor and sons, October, Queen, Udaan, Dev D, Gangs of W, Udta Punjab, Parched, Shahid, Trapped, Vicky Donor, Piku, Madras Cafe, Highway, Dangal and Quite a few more. You can see reviews and select a movie of your taste. Still not Hollywood, but I think this is the best phase Bollywood has been in terms of Variety of content. Still need to up its ante to catch upto Malayalam Cinema and a few Tamil films...but getting better.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by IgnitedMind View Post
    You have missed some good movies bro like Kahaani, Kapoor and sons, October, Queen, Udaan, Dev D, Gangs of W, Udta Punjab, Parched, Shahid, Trapped, Vicky Donor, Piku, Madras Cafe, Highway, Dangal and Quite a few more. You can see reviews and select a movie of your taste. Still not Hollywood, but I think this is the best phase Bollywood has been in terms of Variety of content. Still need to up its ante to catch upto Malayalam Cinema and a few Tamil films...but getting better.
    Have watched 4 among the ones you mentioned. No bad.

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