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  1. #1
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    Playing just five batsmen against England will backfire during the Test series

    It seems already that Pakistan have ideas designed on playing just 5 batsmen in their batting line up during test series vs england. Its a plan which is not only Asking for trouble but also does not have any real though being put into it. This is early summer conditions in the UK which are likely to favor the Fast bowler/seamers at two test test venues which traditionally have helped the bowlers early summer. Pakistan has regularly lost its 1st 3 wickets before 60 runs have been put on the board so playing with just 5 batsmen again makes no sense. We do Not have a world class batting line up, We have our main two batsmen (Azhar and Asad) failing to stand up and lead from the front. Our opening pair is far from established. We have a captain/keeper who is currently not pulling his weight in side with the bat and is no where near good enough to be batting at number 6 in test cricket away from home (Hes not a jonny bairstow, de Villiers, Gilchrist). So why even have the thought of giving yourself more problems in a short series against a good seam bowling attack. So the team management wants to play 5 bowlers and picking two “All-rounders” in theory is fine but both are untested and they may have bailed us out against Ireland but you don’t want to be 60/5 against England at any stage during this series. I think coach/captain and chief selector need to put some serious thought into team combination for test series or it will end up with two very embarrassing defeats.
    Last edited by UN talkz; 16th May 2018 at 14:11.

  2. #2
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    I agree, I've been calling for 6 specialist batsmen because of how fragile our batting is and how inexperienced it is. We were 159-6 and 14-3 against Ireland so how do people expect us to fare against Anderson, Broad and Wood who won't let us off the hook in the same way ?

    Another reason is that Sarfraz's form is worrying. He's batting too high at 6.

    I doubt Mickey and Sarfraz will debut Saad Ali or Usman Salahuddin given they haven't featured at all on this tour, but Fakhar Zaman has have previous international experience and can slot in at 6.

  3. #3
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    I feel like players like Fahim who score flukey runs perform better when you're 60/5.

    A regular number 6 batsman would try to defend and get out, whereas someone like Fahim could ride his luck to 140/7.

  4. #4
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    Even if Pakistan play six batsmen , it does not make much difference. Batsmen like Azhar Ali , Babaar , Asad despite playing so many games are yet to inspire any confidence. Pakistan playing very few Test matches is one of the reasons for this. Test specialist not getting enough games , and big gaps between series.

  5. #5
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    Shabad and Faheem are all rounders. We have to play 5 bowlers, a 4 man bowling attack will collapse when the overs pile up. One extra batsman will not make an earth shattering difference but an extra bowler definitely will.

  6. #6
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    That's how it wil be as that is what the think tank wants.

    Mickey and his coaching staff rate Shadab and Faheem highly and are happy to have them batting at 7 and 8 respectively.



  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saj View Post
    That's how it wil be as that is what the think tank wants.

    Mickey and his coaching staff rate Shadab and Faheem highly and are happy to have them batting at 7 and 8 respectively.
    They have learn't from the lessons from the previous tours where Yasir has had to bowl 35-40 plus overs and the other 2-3 pacers became jaded bowling long hours. Need to have 5 reliable bowling options to keep the bowlers fresh.

  8. #8
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    I agree and would drop Fahim next test despite the good score. I feel a proper batsman will be more reliable.

    Fahim isn't a fourth full time bowling option. People talk about balancing bowling workload, but if you want someone to bowl overs, not expected to take wickets than that's what part timers are for. Fahim doesn't really offer a wicket taking option nor keep down runs.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    They have learn't from the lessons from the previous tours where Yasir has had to bowl 35-40 plus overs and the other 2-3 pacers became jaded bowling long hours. Need to have 5 reliable bowling options to keep the bowlers fresh.
    Is what your spinner is sometimes required to do. Which is why we should pick a spinner. Usually however that only happens if we can't take wickets and the opposition scores 500 or more. And if that happens most likely we aren't winning. And the extra batsman is even more important to score something close to the mammoth figure in return. The opposition has done the same thing too, as most teams do not pick five bowlers.

    I think instead we need to prioritise getting overs from part timers. Azhar is a part time spinner as is Haris. Both should be able to ease the spinner's workload if the need arises, and feel Misbah at least really underutilised his part timers thinking Yasir would be able to handle all the overs. If anything Azhar and Haris together both being spinners I think will comfortable bowl more overs than Fahim without getting tired.

    It would be different if Fahim felt like a real wicket taking option but he doesn't. As I said, he looked almost like a part timer, didn't look threatening at all and that's what you expect of a part timer, to share the workload but you don't expect wickets.

  10. #10
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    5 bowlers is the right decision On the last tour yasir n co were nullified in parts due to the fact they had to bowl a lot of overs And especially when amirs fitness is suspect it becomes even more imperative to have an additional option

    Batting wise shadab n faheem between them at 7-8 are more than capable as batsmen

  11. #11
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    We have another game to figure if someone puts their hand up. I do get the feeling, however, that barring Rahat maybe, this is the team Mickey wants to put in the first test.

  12. #12
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    They need to bring Fakhar Zaman as opener and send Azhar back to one down position, with Shafiq at 4, Babar at 5 and Haris at 6.
    No point in having the bowling services of Faheem Ashraf, so he should get the axe. Bring Hassan Ali in place of Rahat.
    My line up for the next test:

    1) Fakhar Zaman
    2) Imam ul Haq
    3) Azhar Ali
    4) Asad Shafiq
    5) Babar Azam
    6) Haris Sohail
    7) Sarfaraz Ahmed
    8) Shadab
    9) Hasan Ali
    10) Muhammad Aamir
    11) Muhammad Abbas

  13. #13
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    All rounders can contribute in two areas so going with them rather than a specialist batsman and bowler is the right approach. It's not like there's a Younis sitting on the bench.

  14. #14
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    We need 5 bowlers because of workload alone. This really isn't a debate. If Azhar, Shafiq, Haris, Imam, Babar, Sarfraz all fail, Usman/Saad won't do a Laxman. On the contrary, with four bowlers, Amir pulling a hamstring is game over. Heck, you need 5 to ensure everyone can deliver spells at full gas anyway.

  15. #15
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    you need 20 wickets to win test match.. this is an aggressive move to go with 5 bowlers and a part timer in haris sohail as well..

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by nam View Post
    you need 20 wickets to win test match.. this is an aggressive move to go with 5 bowlers and a part timer in haris sohail as well..
    I fully agree agree with guys proposing the current combination..we need our bowling to be at it's best as well as fielding importantly.

    The batsmen need to take responsibility and this is the only way they'll learn. Shadab and faheem will combine to make up for the 6th batsman. An extra bowling option is the only way forward in tests.

  17. #17
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    I wouldn't mind dropping Fahim if the replacement is Fakhar at 6

    Fakhar can easily give you 10 overs of spin too

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amjid Javed View Post
    It seems already that Pakistan have ideas designed on playing just 5 batsmen in their batting line up during test series vs england. Its a plan which is not only Asking for trouble but also does not have any real though being put into it. This is early summer conditions in the UK which are likely to favor the Fast bowler/seamers at two test test venues which traditionally have helped the bowlers early summer. Pakistan has regularly lost its 1st 3 wickets before 60 runs have been put on the board so playing with just 5 batsmen again makes no sense. We do Not have a world class batting line up, We have our main two batsmen (Azhar and Asad) failing to stand up and lead from the front. Our opening pair is far from established. We have a captain/keeper who is currently not pulling his weight in side with the bat and is no where near good enough to be batting at number 6 in test cricket away from home (Hes not a jonny bairstow, de Villiers, Gilchrist). So why even have the thought of giving yourself more problems in a short series against a good seam bowling attack. So the team management wants to play 5 bowlers and picking two “All-rounders” in theory is fine but both are untested and they may have bailed us out against Ireland but you don’t want to be 60/5 against England at any stage during this series. I think coach/captain and chief selector need to put some serious thought into team combination for test series or it will end up with two very embarrassing defeats.
    But right now given how are experienced guys bat (sarf azhar asad) we can not be certain that one of saad/usman would score more than faheem or shadab. Especially I ally known they have had no practice games.
    Also we need to remember we only drew 2-2 because we didn't have a fifth bowler


    If you always do what you have always done, you will always get what you always got #improve

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by PakSarZameen View Post
    I wouldn't mind dropping Fahim if the replacement is Fakhar at 6

    Fakhar can easily give you 10 overs of spin too
    Bro pls don't say this. Fakhar is fodder bowler. This is test cricket


    If you always do what you have always done, you will always get what you always got #improve

  20. #20
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    No it won't. Batting is weak anyways, our bowling is strong but they won't be effective if we go with 3 fast bowlers. We need an AR and faheem is the way to go

  21. #21
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    If we put another batsmen in it will be 1 who will be on debut. So how does that strengthen our batting relaying on an inexperienced player at 6? I don't mind playing 4 bowlers but I think we will need 4 seamers due to the conditions.

  22. #22
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    I don't think it will make any difference . if we play six batters but i want azhar or asad to drop in lords test and try saad or usman in place of them. Young guns will perform better than these. Gentlemen

  23. #23
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    I just cant understand why we picked 9 batsmen in the squad if the think tank always planned to go with Shadab and Fahim at 7 and 8. It becomes even more ridiculous when we factor the dodgy fitness of some of our pacers. I don't see at least 3 of the 4 bats on the bench getting a game. I am sure Mickey and Sarfaraz must've had some sort of discussion with Inzamam regarding overall strategy for the tour, why then we didn't pick Wahab or Shaheen in place of one of the extra bats is beyond me.

    Also, if the plan was to play 5 bowlers mostly because of the potential issue of a pacer breaking down then Hussain Talat might've been an option as he is more of a batsman than Fahim. If however, the intention was to go with 5 pure bowlers then it again raises questions about the selection of 9 bats in the squad. Bit mind-boggling for me or perhaps I am putting too much thought into it and the squad was selected without giving any thought to overall strategy and tactics.

  24. #24
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    I think with Shadab and fahim and 7 and 8 our batting is good enough. In May and early June the tests in England have lower scores compared to late june and July. Plus we also need the bowling fire power to Bowl out England for 250-300 range specially with their long batting lineup.


    "Too often we... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought"-JFK

  25. #25
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    5 bowlers are a must. Rahat gets rested and Hasan comes into the playing XI. That's the only change that makes sense at the moment. Also if 5 batsmen can't get the job done then the 6th one (who would most probably be making his debut) will not magically win you the game.

    You need 20 wickets to win a game.

  26. #26
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    Definitely play 5 genuine batsmen with Safaraz at 6.
    Thus is definitely the right way to go.

    However I would want Fakhar opening up with Imam.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Couch Cricketer View Post
    I think with Shadab and fahim and 7 and 8 our batting is good enough. In May and early June the tests in England have lower scores compared to late june and July. Plus we also need the bowling fire power to Bowl out England for 250-300 range specially with their long batting lineup.
    Good news is that there is hardly any rain forecast for London over the next two weeks.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by aloo paratha View Post
    No it won't. Batting is weak anyways, our bowling is strong but they won't be effective if we go with 3 fast bowlers. We need an AR and faheem is the way to go
    So we are going to try and win games with next to no runs on the board?

    what exactly is the 4th pacer going to provide?

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by IMMY69 View Post
    Definitely play 5 genuine batsmen with Safaraz at 6.
    Thus is definitely the right way to go.

    However I would want Fakhar opening up with Imam.
    So you think Sarfaraz is good enough to be batting number 6?

  30. #30
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    I rate Sarfraz.

    Not sure about keeper Johnny at 5 and non keeper Buttler at 7 for England, mind.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amjid Javed View Post
    So you think Sarfaraz is good enough to be batting number 6?
    That question is almost irrelevant.

    Whether he plays at 6 or 7, he simply has to perform with the bat.
    Depending on form I would consider Shadab at 6 with Safaraz coming in at 7.

    Either way, 5 bowlers is definitely the right way.

  32. #32
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    Playing 6 specialist batsmen and just 4 bowlers is an incredibly defensive and outdated strategy
    If Pakistan had played a batsmen over Faheem against Ireland, they would have definitely lost that game. Not only do you lose the 150+ partnership runs he was involved in, you're would be asking Rahat and Sohail to bowl more, giving easy runs for Ireland

    The modern way of playing cricket is to all-rounders that can contribute with bat and ball.

    It's about time Sarfraz and Mickey introduced all-rounders to the test team

  33. #33
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    I think if 5 batsmen can't do the job then 6th one likely can't make the difference. So the combination that was tried against Ireland should be backed i.e 5 batsmen + wk batsman + 2 allrounders + 3 bowlers.

  34. #34
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    Faheem should he dropped to accommodate hasan Ali. 1 batsman won't make any difference.4 proper pacers and shadab khan is the way to go. Wish wahab were there.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ali_Pakistan View Post
    I think if 5 batsmen can't do the job then 6th one likely can't make the difference. So the combination that was tried against Ireland should be backed i.e 5 batsmen + wk batsman + 2 allrounders + 3 bowlers.
    The Combo was ideal for a team like Ireland, but england are alot better side and if pakistan are 3/4 wickets down for next to nothing in each inns of a game england will bowl pakistan out cheaply.

  36. #36
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    Totally agree with OP. Shadab at 7 is actually fine, problem is you have Sarfraz with a promotion to 6 when he’s already been struggling for runs at 7. One of the reasons we did well in tests over the past few years is that shafiq scored runs from #6.
    Also, why in the world did they select 4 other batsmen in the squad if they weren’t even going to test them out!

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by coy0607 View Post
    Playing 6 specialist batsmen and just 4 bowlers is an incredibly defensive and outdated strategy
    If Pakistan had played a batsmen over Faheem against Ireland, they would have definitely lost that game. Not only do you lose the 150+ partnership runs he was involved in, you're would be asking Rahat and Sohail to bowl more, giving easy runs for Ireland

    The modern way of playing cricket is to all-rounders that can contribute with bat and ball.

    It's about time Sarfraz and Mickey introduced all-rounders to the test team
    Which team has successfully used this modern day all rounder strategy with multiple allrounders? Aus still plays specialists (unless they have a genuine all rounder) as does South Africa .

    England tried it perhaps with Moeen but they’ve been struggling and just went back to specialists with the squad they announced.

    So I have no idea where you’ve seen the modern strategy you mention. All rounders have always been valued in tests but they must be good enough in one discipline by itself to merit selection (stokes and perhaps Marsh are examples today).

    Shadab could be another in the future. Faheems bowling itself doesn’t merit selection today

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuzaifaE View Post
    We need 5 bowlers because of workload alone. This really isn't a debate. If Azhar, Shafiq, Haris, Imam, Babar, Sarfraz all fail, Usman/Saad won't do a Laxman. On the contrary, with four bowlers, Amir pulling a hamstring is game over. Heck, you need 5 to ensure everyone can deliver spells at full gas anyway.
    If an innings is let's say 100 overs, everyone bowls 20 overs each if 5 bowlers. If only 4 every one bowls 25. That's the difference of five extra overs bowled by a bowler. Which is marginal IMO. I doubt that added 5 overs is the difference between straining a bowler and not. The difference between 4 and 3 is the fact since you have two different bowlers at the other end, with 3 is very hard to give a bowler a rest. Which is why 4 is often the optimum number in tests as 2 can bowl, 2 can rest at a time.

    If Amir pulls a hamstring, it's game over anyway. Fahim or Rahat as fourth bowlers can't pick up wickets, all they'll be doing is easing the workload. Which is why even with five bowlers in the Ireland game we were pushing Amir to bowl. If Fahim or Rahat suddenly pulled a hamstring, I doubt there really would have been any difference at all.

    If someone is picked as a bowler yet does not look lethal e.g. Fahim, Rahat, then I argue what makes him differ to a part timer. A part timer can bowl without picking up wickets too. And our part timers, say Azhar, Haris will be able to make 20 overs or so easily between them given they're spinners.

    Kevin O'Brien scored a century in this very match at 6. So say picking 6 proper batsmen won't make a difference I don't agree with. And given that 6th proper bat will likely get a bat, mathematically it suggests that he will make a difference over a fifth bowler (who mathematically doesn't, given that all bowlers can bowl infinite overs, there's no quota, and the top four bowlers are likely to outperform the fifth bowler). Ideally our no.6 will average around 40, which is what Asad averaged there and Sarfraz averages around there at 7. Both Usman and Saad average near 50 at domestic and it wouldn't be unworldly to expect them to average say 40 (now and in the future). Fahim or Rahat on the other hand neither look like good bowlers and neither do people expect them to have a good bowling average or average under 30.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by ads101 View Post
    If an innings is let's say 100 overs, everyone bowls 20 overs each if 5 bowlers. If only 4 every one bowls 25. That's the difference of five extra overs bowled by a bowler. Which is marginal IMO. I doubt that added 5 overs is the difference between straining a bowler and not. The difference between 4 and 3 is the fact since you have two different bowlers at the other end, with 3 is very hard to give a bowler a rest. Which is why 4 is often the optimum number in tests as 2 can bowl, 2 can rest at a time.

    If Amir pulls a hamstring, it's game over anyway. Fahim or Rahat as fourth bowlers can't pick up wickets, all they'll be doing is easing the workload. Which is why even with five bowlers in the Ireland game we were pushing Amir to bowl. If Fahim or Rahat suddenly pulled a hamstring, I doubt there really would have been any difference at all.

    If someone is picked as a bowler yet does not look lethal e.g. Fahim, Rahat, then I argue what makes him differ to a part timer. A part timer can bowl without picking up wickets too. And our part timers, say Azhar, Haris will be able to make 20 overs or so easily between them given they're spinners.

    Kevin O'Brien scored a century in this very match at 6. So say picking 6 proper batsmen won't make a difference I don't agree with. And given that 6th proper bat will likely get a bat, mathematically it suggests that he will make a difference over a fifth bowler (who mathematically doesn't, given that all bowlers can bowl infinite overs, there's no quota, and the top four bowlers are likely to outperform the fifth bowler). Ideally our no.6 will average around 40, which is what Asad averaged there and Sarfraz averages around there at 7. Both Usman and Saad average near 50 at domestic and it wouldn't be unworldly to expect them to average say 40 (now and in the future). Fahim or Rahat on the other hand neither look like good bowlers and neither do people expect them to have a good bowling average or average under 30.
    Firstly, looking at just over count is deceiving. You can bowl the same number of overs, or 5 but, but be gassed, or bowl less and go full throttle. Unless you think the trundling Amir in the UAE at 130 KPH is the same as the 140 KPH late swinging Amir, you would agree with that. Hasan bowling 20 overs at full gas is better than having many of those overs be "get it over with" type overs after running out of steam. We've already seen the issues of 4 bowlers in our recent years, it's not undocumented.

    Secondly, Rahat bowled like pure trash, and will almost surely be replaced by Hasan, but Fahim made his debut, to pass judgement on his bowling is premature.

    Lastly, the same game changing number 6 was dismissed in the first innings by none other than Fahim. Additionally, Fahim's style of batting is what you need at 6 to bring back momentum to your side, it is an alternative strategy and a necessary one given the one dimensional batsmen like Azhar who invite the bowlers to absolutely set up their perfect line and length at ease.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amjid Javed View Post
    So you think Sarfaraz is good enough to be batting number 6?
    Based on current form - No.

    In fact Shadab could bat ahead of him really.



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    Maybe they should play three token batsmen and eight bowlers. The tailenders normally score all the runs anyway.

  42. #42
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    Five specialist batsman is a risky strategy unless you have a great top 5. Pakistan's top 5 is shaky at best and apart from Azhar and Shafiq none of them are experienced. You cannot expect Shadab and Faheem to get Pakistan out of a 60/5 or 70/5 against good bowling attacks like the one England have. 6 specialist bat is a must for Pakistan to do well in England.

  43. #43
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    Need at least 6 batsmen with Sarfaraz coming in at 7. Even then seeing how vulnerable our batting is we will struggle to get part 300. I always feel comfortable when the keeper bats at 7. Below that the tail is probably not that worse then our upper order I don't think the likes of Faheem, Amir and Hasan Ali if he plays are much worse that Azhar and Imam with the bat


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

  44. #44
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    But I think we have to give it a try. If we are going to lose early wickets then I doubt any batsman would be able to get us out of that. Perhaps the all rounders may have the better chance to bail us out. Also we have to think about bowling combinations as well. Can't go with 4 bowlers as that will exhaust our bowlers as we saw in our last tour to England. So basically we have to see things bowling wise as well.

  45. #45
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    Must play sami aslam and put azhar on one down but we didn't have the luxury of yasir shah and amir is also not 100%. So need of 5 is emphasized. so no other option left.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saj View Post
    Based on current form - No.

    In fact Shadab could bat ahead of him really.
    Even if in form the only time Sarfaraz should be used at 6 is in Asian/UAE conditions.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by giri26 View Post
    Five specialist batsman is a risky strategy unless you have a great top 5. Pakistan's top 5 is shaky at best and apart from Azhar and Shafiq none of them are experienced. You cannot expect Shadab and Faheem to get Pakistan out of a 60/5 or 70/5 against good bowling attacks like the one England have. 6 specialist bat is a must for Pakistan to do well in England.
    Thank you! common sense and someone who understands my point.

  48. #48
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    Plenty of warm, dry weather expected in the lead up to the test and during it. The pitch is likely to be pretty flat so we're going to need 5 bowlers.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by giri26 View Post
    Five specialist batsman is a risky strategy unless you have a great top 5. Pakistan's top 5 is shaky at best and apart from Azhar and Shafiq none of them are experienced. You cannot expect Shadab and Faheem to get Pakistan out of a 60/5 or 70/5 against good bowling attacks like the one England have. 6 specialist bat is a must for Pakistan to do well in England.
    Five specialist batsmen being risky has nothing to do with whether those 5 are very good. It's more about whether the other 6 are competent.

    Even very good batsmen can all have the off day together and the team will lose. It's better to try it here because it's very like unlikely that whichever 6th guy people have in mind is actually much better than Shadab or Faheem.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by PakLFC View Post
    Need at least 6 batsmen with Sarfaraz coming in at 7. Even then seeing how vulnerable our batting is we will struggle to get part 300. I always feel comfortable when the keeper bats at 7. Below that the tail is probably not that worse then our upper order I don't think the likes of Faheem, Amir and Hasan Ali if he plays are much worse that Azhar and Imam with the bat
    The tail being not much worse than the top order is exactly why you should have a bowling all-rounder who isn't much worse, compared to a 6th batsman when you guys don't even think the 5 better batsmen will last 30 overs...

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amjid Javed View Post
    So we are going to try and win games with next to no runs on the board?

    what exactly is the 4th pacer going to provide?
    We're gonna make a low total no matter what, might as well have more bowling to defend it. It's not like we have a Younis khan on the bench who's gonna come in at number 6 and score 150.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by CricketAnalyst View Post
    Five specialist batsmen being risky has nothing to do with whether those 5 are very good. It's more about whether the other 6 are competent.

    Even very good batsmen can all have the off day together and the team will lose. It's better to try it here because it's very like unlikely that whichever 6th guy people have in mind is actually much better than Shadab or Faheem.
    Exactly!!
    Shadab could easily slot in at 6 with Safaraz at 7.

    We simply have to go in with 5 bowlers if we stand any chance of winning.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by IMMY69 View Post
    Exactly!!
    Shadab could easily slot in at 6 with Safaraz at 7.

    We simply have to go in with 5 bowlers if we stand any chance of winning.
    Exactly. This configuration gives Pakistan a chance because England's batting is weak and you guys have one top-class bowler in great form in Abbas, and as long as he doesn't have to work like a donkey and gets some support Pakistan will can easily take 20 wickets.

  54. #54
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    As much as I like Usman or Saad to make debut (sadly Asad won't be dropped), we need to go with 5 bowlers mainly because Amir and Hasan aren't fully fit and can get injured during the match. With 4 bowlers it will be bye bye Pakistan.


    Sarfi as captain'll lead us to glory.Babar'll be our best odi bat & Haris'll be world class in tests

  55. #55
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    Aamir is the real problem. Is it really worth playing 5 bowlers if one of them is not fully fit? Might as well play an extra batsman. If Aamir is fully fit and able to give it his all, PAK need to play

    Azhar
    Imam
    Harris
    Babar
    Asad
    Fahim
    Sarfraz
    Shadab
    Aamir
    Hassan
    Abbas

  56. #56
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    I think not taking Wahab on the tour was a big Mistake. Wahab was our X factor in the 2016 tour, he doesn't take 5vers or run through the side but he strikes and takes the big wickets out and has the ability to pick up 1-2 quick wickets. He would have been a bigger threat than Rahat. I believe Arthur has let his ego cloud his judgement here, Wahab in test matches is a different bowler compared to Wahab in T-20's and ODI's.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by CricketAnalyst View Post
    The tail being not much worse than the top order is exactly why you should have a bowling all-rounder who isn't much worse, compared to a 6th batsman when you guys don't even think the 5 better batsmen will last 30 overs...
    We don't have many effective all rounders. 6 batsman followed by Sarfaraz at 7 then 4 bowlers. Then we may get close to 300.


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    I think not taking Wahab on the tour was a big Mistake. Wahab was our X factor in the 2016 tour, he doesn't take 5vers or run through the side but he strikes and takes the big wickets out and has the ability to pick up 1-2 quick wickets. He would have been a bigger threat than Rahat. I believe Arthur has let his ego cloud his judgement here, Wahab in test matches is a different bowler compared to Wahab in T-20's and ODI's.
    He is in fact Pakistan's highest ranked Test bowler, as was pointed out to me. Which is a sad commentary on the state of things. Because he really was nothing more than decent on his last outing in England. There are few bowlers who are more certain NOT to take a 5fer and run through a side than Wahab; I mean it is something you expect more often from Ishant. And it makes no sense to select a bowler who will never contribute more than 2-3 wickets. That is selling yourself short. What do you need him for, extra pace? Both Hasan and Amir can go mid to high 140s if need be. Wahab is 3-4 clicks faster at most. The real problem is not Wahab, it is the inability of Mickey and Inzi to look beyond Rahat. Sadaf or Hamza would have been perfect for the conditions, and should by all rights be on a plane to provide backup in case Amir injures himself. Rahat is a walking liability.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by ads101 View Post
    Is what your spinner is sometimes required to do. Which is why we should pick a spinner. Usually however that only happens if we can't take wickets and the opposition scores 500 or more. And if that happens most likely we aren't winning. And the extra batsman is even more important to score something close to the mammoth figure in return. The opposition has done the same thing too, as most teams do not pick five bowlers.

    I think instead we need to prioritise getting overs from part timers. Azhar is a part time spinner as is Haris. Both should be able to ease the spinner's workload if the need arises, and feel Misbah at least really underutilised his part timers thinking Yasir would be able to handle all the overs. If anything Azhar and Haris together both being spinners I think will comfortable bowl more overs than Fahim without getting tired.

    It would be different if Fahim felt like a real wicket taking option but he doesn't. As I said, he looked almost like a part timer, didn't look threatening at all and that's what you expect of a part timer, to share the workload but you don't expect wickets.
    I most always agree with you, and I agree that Fahim didn't quite look the part, but he's been very good in domestics, better than many specialist bowlers. His FC average is 26, far better than Wahab. I think it would be worth it to see how he goes in the last practice game before benching him. But if he looks middling again, I could certainly see him replaced by Saad. I also agree with you on the importance of true part timers like Haris. And if Azhar wants to justify his selection he certainly needs to start pulling his weight somewhere. Getting out cheaply and dropping slip catches can't be it for him.

  60. #60
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    So we play 5 batsmen because we want to strengthen the bowling. lets look at Top 7.

    Imam - Walking wicket
    Azhar Ali - Established batsmen, struggles against swinging ball
    Sohail - Finding his feet at international level
    Asad - Established player
    Usman - Debut
    Sarfaraz - Playing like a tali ender
    Shadab - Trying to establish himself at international level
    Fahim Trying to establish himself at international level

    With such an inept opener being picked and a captain who shows no responsability with the bat why would you weaken your chances of scoring runs with such feeble selections. Add to that then an expectancy on Shadab and Fahim to create miracles and bails us out all the time.

  61. #61
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    We consider Sarfaraz a batsman. That he is not scoring is another story.

    The two allrounders are compensating for that 7th batsman. The team is quite balanced atleast on paper. There is nothing much that can be done if the players do not perform or the conditions are difficult to bat in.

    We should have fielded first but what is done is done.


    Pakistani batsmen - An endangered species?

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amjid Javed View Post
    So we play 5 batsmen because we want to strengthen the bowling. lets look at Top 7.

    Imam - Walking wicket
    Azhar Ali - Established batsmen, struggles against swinging ball
    Sohail - Finding his feet at international level
    Asad - Established player
    Usman - Debut
    Sarfaraz - Playing like a tali ender
    Shadab - Trying to establish himself at international level
    Fahim Trying to establish himself at international level

    With such an inept opener being picked and a captain who shows no responsability with the bat why would you weaken your chances of scoring runs with such feeble selections. Add to that then an expectancy on Shadab and Fahim to create miracles and bails us out all the time.
    Whoever your specialist batsman would be would come at the expense of Shadab/Faheem who are not the problem anyway.

    Your tail is fine, so if there is a qualitative problem with batting, it won't be solved by removing bowling resources and adding a specialist batsman who are even worse the walking wickets in the top order.

  63. #63
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    Sarfraz in this form is too high at 6. It messes up the whole formula of playing 5 specialist batsmen.

  64. #64
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    Let me ask you this. What difference would one more batsman have made here? For God’s sake the tailenders are outsxoring the batsmen. 5 batsmen or 6 batsmen, we needed a solid partnership from someone in the top 5. Simple as that. I’m glad we’re being positive and playing 2 all rounders and 3 bowlers.


    "Our business is our business. None of your business" - Race 3

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by CricketAnalyst View Post
    Whoever your specialist batsman would be would come at the expense of Shadab/Faheem who are not the problem anyway.

    Your tail is fine, so if there is a qualitative problem with batting, it won't be solved by removing bowling resources and adding a specialist batsman who are even worse the walking wickets in the top order.
    Exactly. It’s very easy to jump this thread in hindsight and say that one more batsman would’ve made a difference.


    "Our business is our business. None of your business" - Race 3

  66. #66
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    Shadab has batted better than any of our batsmen, we already have 7 batsmen


    'I was shivering facing Akhtar' -Tendulkar

  67. #67
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    Early English conditions, playing only 5 specialist batsmen with one on debut. This was going to happen at least once on this tour.

    Even after losing 4 wickets early another bat at 6 instead could have gotten us through that tough sessions and maybe Sarfraz at 8 would then have been more useful (he just doesn’t justify batting at 6 at this time).

    We keep forgetting shafiq got about 10 hundreds at that crucial 6!

  68. #68
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    It’s not that uncommon for the #5/6/7 to do the rebuild job in a test match. You just can’t expect that from Sarfraz in his current form in test cricket

  69. #69
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    Playing an extra batsman in over cast conditions is not going to do much.

  70. #70
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    Nothing will work as long as the Specialist Captain is not contributing.

  71. #71
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    You need someone from top 4 to play big innings. An additional batsman would have made no difference.

    The real problem is single digit scores from Azhar and Imam, and pretty 30s from Haris.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    You need someone from top 4 to play big innings. An additional batsman would have made no difference.

    The real problem is single digit scores from Azhar and Imam, and pretty 30s from Haris.
    Forgot to mention tailender Sarfraz


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