Instagram


The Cricket Paper

Cricket Scotland

Sohail Speaks Yasir's Blog Fazeer's Focus

User Tag List

Results 1 to 58 of 58
  1. #1
    Debut
    Feb 2018
    Runs
    406
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Made to eat pork, tortured: China Muslim 'Reeducation' Camps'

    BEIJING — Kayrat Samarkand says his only “crime” was being a Muslim who had visited neighboring Kazakhstan. On that basis alone, he was detained by police, aggressively interrogated for three days, then dispatched in November to a “reeducation camp” in China’s western province of Xinjiang for three months.

    There, he faced endless brainwashing and humiliation, he said in an interview, was forced to study Communist propaganda for hours every day, and chant slogans giving thanks and wishing long life to President Xi Jinping.

    “Those who disobeyed the rules, refused to be on duty, engaged in fights or were late for studies were placed in handcuffs and ankle cuffs for up to 12 hours,” he said. Further disobedience would result in waterboarding or long periods strapped in agony in a metal contraption known as a “tiger chair,” he said, a punishment he said he suffered.


    Between several hundred thousand to just over 1 million Muslims have been detained inside China’s mass “reeducation” camps in the restive province of Xinjiang, Adrian Zenz of the European School of Culture and Theology in Korntal, Germany, said in a report released Tuesday. Zenz is a leading authority on the current crackdown in Xinjiang.
    In a region of 21 million people, including 11 million Muslims, the number of those he reports to be detained would be a significant proportion of the population, especially of young adult men.

    “China’s pacification drive in Xinjiang is, more than likely, the country’s most intense campaign of coercive social re-engineering since the end of the Cultural Revolution,” Zenz wrote, referring to the chaos unleashed by Mao Zedong in the 1960s.

    “The state’s proclaimed ‘war on terror’ in the region is increasingly turning into a war on religion, ethnic languages and other expressions of ethnic identity.”

    China has blamed violent attacks in Xinjiang in recent years on Islamic extremists bent on waging holy war on the state, with radical ideas said to be coming from abroad over the Internet and from visits to foreign countries by Uighurs, the region’s predominant ethnic group.

    In response, Beijing has turned the entire region into a 21st-century surveillance state, with ubiquitous checkpoints and widespread use of facial recognition technology, and has even forced Muslims to install spyware on their phones that allows the authorities to monitor their activity online, experts say. Long beards and veils have been banned, and overt expression of religious sentiment is likely to cause immediate suspicion.

    In an extension of the already pervasive program of human surveillance, more than 1 million Communist Party cadres have been dispatched to spend days on end staying in the homes of (mostly Muslim) families throughout Xinjiang, according to a report by Human Rights Watch released this week, where they carry out political indoctrination, and report back on anything from the extent of religious beliefs to uncleanliness and alcoholism.
    “Muslim families across Xinjiang are now literally eating and sleeping under the watchful eye of the state in their own homes,” said Maya Wang, senior China researcher at Human Rights Watch. “The latest drive adds to a whole host of pervasive — and perverse — controls on everyday life in Xinjiang.”

    But reeducation camps that appear to have opened all across the region have sparked the greatest global concern.

    Samarkand said 5,700 people were detained in just one camp in the village of Karamagay, almost all ethnic Kazakhs and Uighurs, and not a single person from China’s Han majority ethnic group. About 200 were suspected of being “religious extremists,” he said, but others had been abroad for work or university, received phone calls from abroad, or simply been seen worshiping at a mosque.

    The 30-year-old stayed in a dormitory with 14 other men. After the room was searched every morning, he said, the day began with two hours of study on subjects ranging from “the spirit of the 19th Party Congress,” where Xi expounded his political dogma in a three-hour speech, to China’s policies on minorities and religion. Inmates would sing Communist songs, chant “Long live Xi Jinping” and do military-style training in the afternoon, before writing an account of their day, he said.

    His account was corroborated by Omir Bekali, an ethnic Kazakh who was working in a tourism company in Urumqi, Xinjiang’s capital, until he was arrested by police on a visit to his parents in the village of Shanshan in March 2017. Four days of interrogation, during which he was prevented from sleeping, were followed by seven months in a police cell and 20 days in a reeducation camp in the city of Karamay, he said. He was given no trial, he said, nor granted access to a lawyer.

    He described a day that would begin with a flag-raising ceremony at 6:30 a.m. followed by a rendition of one or more “red” songs praising the Communist revolution. After breakfast, inmates would spend 10 minutes thanking the Communist Party and Xi for providing everything for people, from food and drink to their livelihoods.

    Inmates had to learn the national anthem and red songs, he said, as well as slogans condemning the “three evil forces” of separatism, extremism and terrorism.

    “There were so many things to recite, and if you couldn’t recite them, they wouldn’t allow you to eat, sleep or sit,” he said. “They brainwash you, you must become like a robot. Listen to whatever the party says, listen to the party’s words, follow the party.”

    Some inmates committed suicide, he said.

    Both men said the food was poor, with meat rare and food poisoning not uncommon. Inmates were sometimes forced to eat pork, forbidden in Islam, as punishment, while Bekali said those accused of being “religious extremists” were also forced to drink alcohol.

    Bekali, 42, had emigrated to Kazakhstan in 2006 and become a Kazakh citizen, and said the Kazakh government eventually won his release. Samarkand said he was allowed to leave for Kazakhstan to join his wife and children after having his house and savings, worth about $190,000, confiscated by the government. He was given 500 yuan, equivalent to $80, by police at the border as he departed.

    Both men, interviewed by phone, are now in Kazakhstan.

    Although the Chinese government has officially denied the existence of these camps, Zenz gathered evidence of 73 government procurement and construction bids valued at more than $100 million, along with public recruitment notices and other documents, pointing to the establishment of camps across the region.

    He dates the onset of widespread detentions to March 2017, and a government campaign of “de-extremification” through education. That followed the appointment of Chen Quanguo as party secretary in Xinjiang in August 2016, and his transfer from Tibet, where he oversaw a similar program of intense social control, surveillance and securitization.

    Many procurement bids, Zenz noted, mandate the installation of comprehensive security features that turn existing facilities into prisonlike compounds, with walls, security fences, barbed wire, reinforced security doors, surveillance systems, secure access systems, watchtowers, and guard rooms for police.

    “While there is no published data on reeducation detainee numbers, information from various sources permit us to estimate internment figures at anywhere between several hundred thousand and just over one million,” Zenz wrote in a report first published by the Jamestown Foundation.

    “The latter figure is based on a leaked document from within the region’s public security agencies, and, when extrapolated to all of Xinjiang, could indicate a detention rate of up to 11.5 percent of the region’s adult Uighur and Kazakh population.”

    Bekali said he met doctors, lawyers and teachers in the camps, while Radio Free Asia (RFA) has reported that wealthy businessmen, 80-year-olds and even breast-feeding mothers have been among the detainees.

    One of the most well-known detainees is a Uighur soccer player, Erfan Hezim, 19, a former member of China’s youth soccer team and now a forward for Chinese Super League team Jiangsu Suning. Hezim, also known by his Chinese name Ye Erfan, was detained in February while visiting his parents in Xinjiang, according to RFA, on the pretext that he had visited foreign countries, although he had reportedly traveled abroad only to train and take part in soccer matches.

    Also detained have been dozens of family members of journalists from the Washington-based RFA, who have been at the forefront of reporting on the deepening crackdown in Xinjiang and the reeducation camps. At least two of the affected reporters, both naturalized U.S. citizens, have reason to believe their family members were detained directly because of their reporting, RFA said.

    In one report, RFA quoted a Chinese official as justifying the widespread detentions in blunt terms.

    “You can’t uproot all the weeds hidden among the crops in the field one by one — you need to spray chemicals to kill them all,” the official was quoted as saying. “Reeducating these people is like spraying chemicals on the crops. That is why it is a general reeducation, not limited to a few people.”


    https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/were...-camps-1853220

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.941ed9ea262d
    Shame on Chinese and shame on rest of the world for not speaking out against this. Why is Muslim world silent on this?!

  2. #2
    Debut
    May 2014
    Venue
    chennai
    Runs
    17,977
    Mentioned
    427 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    How come the Muslims posters/world don't pounce on China is beyond me.

  3. #3
    Debut
    Feb 2018
    Runs
    406
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by JaDed View Post
    How come the Muslims posters/world don't pounce on China is beyond me.
    Specially when the number of Muslims detained in such camps is reported to be upto a million! Several of them are going crazy, committing suicide.. and the world is silent !

  4. #4
    Debut
    Mar 2014
    Runs
    1,940
    Mentioned
    35 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    India should support cpec. China is india's competitor in coming years because right now china is way ahead but cpec i am sure will take pakistan out of equation completly but give china a huge advantage.
    China knows how to tackle with religions. Even usa cant match them in this regard.

  5. #5
    Debut
    Feb 2015
    Venue
    Karachi
    Runs
    21,736
    Mentioned
    1171 Post(s)
    Tagged
    7 Thread(s)
    Ofcourse this is reprehensible and barbaric but this isnt Islam-specific. China is an equal-opportunity offender in this regard.

    There are reports of Christian persecution at times too. Same or worse would happen to other religions if they were global.


    #MPGA

  6. #6
    Debut
    Dec 2012
    Venue
    Indian Ocean
    Runs
    16,201
    Mentioned
    350 Post(s)
    Tagged
    5 Thread(s)
    "This news cannot possibly be true, because Chinese media didn't report it." # @KingKhanWC

    In fact, a change.org petition to dispel such fake news is much needed.

  7. #7
    Debut
    Mar 2016
    Venue
    New Delhi
    Runs
    4,559
    Mentioned
    73 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Chinese have a goal to become the biggest economy they have realised religion might hamper that and divert issues so they have curbed every religion similarly..

    It’s a violation of human rights.. Question is do majority of Chinese people want development where human rights of their fellow citizens are violated?

  8. #8
    Debut
    Feb 2018
    Runs
    406
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Slog View Post
    Ofcourse this is reprehensible and barbaric but this isnt Islam-specific. China is an equal-opportunity offender in this regard.

    There are reports of Christian persecution at times too. Same or worse would happen to other religions if they were global.
    Ok, so religious persecution is what Chinese do, fair. Why do you think Muslim world is silent about all this? Are Chinese that scary or powerful?

  9. #9
    Debut
    Apr 2007
    Venue
    USA
    Runs
    6,355
    Mentioned
    196 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Pakistanis have special love for China and Saudi Arab. If India, Isreal, US or any western country does even discrimination, there is so much hue and cry. In Arab world for last 40 years(this is the time our labor force is going in big numbers there), in arab there is no protection of Muslims labor, they are treated like dirt, there is open discrimination. We keep calling them our muslim brothers, they don't consider you anything, you barely have any rights, forget about equal to other Arabs. In West you get equal rights, you can get land and marry here with pretty much any body. How many Pakistanis have got land there are married their women(or men)?? - Why all this muslim/muslim bhai bhai is only empty slogan by poor muslims?? - Rich ones, don't consider you equal, they don't give a ****, when we are going to open our eyes

    Now China has got this one sided favorite nation tag. Everything about CPEC is mystery and as secretive as we do for anything that is important. We will focus on all kind of meaningless junk but never talk about policy and vision matters, again public is too dumb to discuss this, Army is deciding that behind the door for you. We are just emotional fools, emotion is last thing you focus on when it comes to future


    If you want to do things that are certain to succeed, you are doing very obvious thing - E Musk

  10. #10
    Debut
    May 2010
    Venue
    UK
    Runs
    22,202
    Mentioned
    168 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by yasir View Post
    Pakistanis have special love for China and Saudi Arab. If India, Isreal, US or any western country does even discrimination, there is so much hue and cry. In Arab world for last 40 years(this is the time our labor force is going in big numbers there), in arab there is no protection of Muslims labor, they are treated like dirt, there is open discrimination. We keep calling them our muslim brothers, they don't consider you anything, you barely have any rights, forget about equal to other Arabs. In West you get equal rights, you can get land and marry here with pretty much any body. How many Pakistanis have got land there are married their women(or men)?? - Why all this muslim/muslim bhai bhai is only empty slogan by poor muslims?? - Rich ones, don't consider you equal, they don't give a ****, when we are going to open our eyes

    Now China has got this one sided favorite nation tag. Everything about CPEC is mystery and as secretive as we do for anything that is important. We will focus on all kind of meaningless junk but never talk about policy and vision matters, again public is too dumb to discuss this, Army is deciding that behind the door for you. We are just emotional fools, emotion is last thing you focus on when it comes to future
    India should show extra special friendship for Pakistan and blow all these countries like Saudi and China out of the water. With cultural and linguistic advantage they are in a position to use soft power to make those other countries useless bystanders instead of economic and cultural heartbeat of Pakistan.


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

  11. #11
    Debut
    Apr 2017
    Venue
    London
    Runs
    44
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    China has always been extremely secretive & tries to keep this sort of information out of the world's knowledge. It does not allow media companies access to troubled regions. It views most religions with suspicion & feels that strict religious observance is a threat to security (remember it's treatment of the Dalai lama & Tibetan buddhist monks). They consider religious leaders as threatening the monolithic power of the communist party leadership.

    They HATE the outside world obtaining any negative information about China. They will not allow loss of face for their leaders. Their economic power & clout ensures that those who want to trade with them are very careful about openly criticising China & her leaders. Honestly, in recent times it has only been D Trump who has openly called out the Chinese over their trade practices.

    Historically they have been so secretive that it took the world many decades to discover that during Chairman Mao's "great leap forward" the greatest famine in world history happened as a result with 30 million deaths in 5 years.

    Seriously, if they managed to hide that - what's the lives of a million muslims to their leadership?

  12. #12
    Debut
    Apr 2017
    Venue
    London
    Runs
    44
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    India should show extra special friendship for Pakistan and blow all these countries like Saudi and China out of the water. With cultural and linguistic advantage they are in a position to use soft power to make those other countries useless bystanders instead of economic and cultural heartbeat of Pakistan.
    Ha! Do you really even think that India, under her current lovely leaders, would ever consider doing anything that actually helps Pakistan?

  13. #13
    Debut
    Dec 2012
    Venue
    Indian Ocean
    Runs
    16,201
    Mentioned
    350 Post(s)
    Tagged
    5 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bosanquet View Post
    Ha! Do you really even think that India, under her current lovely leaders, would ever consider doing anything that actually helps Pakistan?
    I presume @Cpt Rishwat would agree to this, therefore implying that China is the 'next best' option to cuddle up to, them snatching away the Quran and force-feeding Muslims during Ramadan notwithstanding.

  14. #14
    Debut
    May 2010
    Venue
    UK
    Runs
    22,202
    Mentioned
    168 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bosanquet View Post
    Ha! Do you really even think that India, under her current lovely leaders, would ever consider doing anything that actually helps Pakistan?
    Not really, but I'm giving OP the opportunity to make a case for it.


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

  15. #15
    Debut
    Oct 2006
    Runs
    7,496
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Eagerly waiting for Shahid Afridi's heartfelt message against this injustice...

  16. #16
    Debut
    Nov 2014
    Runs
    1,653
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by siddharth View Post
    Eagerly waiting for Shahid Afridi's heartfelt message against this injustice...
    Not waiting for Gambhir to say anything about killing of muslims over cows. I am sure he support the law to protect largest majority in India probably due to his ego shorter than other things given to him by the nature.

  17. #17
    Debut
    Nov 2014
    Runs
    1,653
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    It seems everyone in the world is so insecure about Islam, be it India, China or western world.

  18. #18
    Debut
    Jan 2006
    Venue
    Yorkshire
    Runs
    36,699
    Mentioned
    199 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Not a good moment for China’s treatment of its minorities.

  19. #19
    Debut
    Aug 2012
    Venue
    everywhere
    Runs
    21,039
    Mentioned
    252 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by www787 View Post
    It seems everyone in the world is so insecure about Islam, be it India, China or western world.
    Its a phase. Earlier it was the jews who were expelled from 109 empires throughout their history, then the non-whites in general who needed to be civilised, then blacks in particular who were considered as "beasts", and now it is the muslims. Tomorrow it will be someone else. Wait for it.

  20. #20
    Debut
    May 2018
    Runs
    131
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Everybody treats minorities badly, why single out China? It's a human failure, I mean you have people getting killed in India just because of eating beef, or Pakistani Christians being targeted by extremists just because of their faith.

    China is not perfect, but in the long run it is one country that can actually civilize interior parts of Pakistan, which are very backwards. It is the only hope of Pakistan to be honest. India can never be trusted because their only end goal is take over Pakistan and make it hindu, at least the current government defiantly has that goal

  21. #21
    Debut
    Mar 2014
    Runs
    1,940
    Mentioned
    35 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Madplayer View Post
    Its a phase. Earlier it was the jews who were expelled from 109 empires throughout their history, then the non-whites in general who needed to be civilised, then blacks in particular who were considered as "beasts", and now it is the muslims. Tomorrow it will be someone else. Wait for it.
    There is a big difference. How many muslim countries are there in world ? How many are secular? How many treats their kaafir people well ? I dnt think there are many. Many muslim population when present in majority in muslim countries they have their own laws ,forget about countries what about kashmir and all..all the hue and cry is because muslims are large in number there so they want different state.
    We live in a world these days where no one want to listen to anyone...no one wants to do favour tgese days....you want to enjoy democratic rights and all rights when living in western countries or like countries like india. But when you in majority then you hardly give them rights.
    This cannot happen these days. So treatment about black and all is irrelevant. I am talking about practical thing ,which is in front of everyone to see.

  22. #22
    Debut
    Jul 2016
    Runs
    478
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by BlackShadow View Post
    Shame on Chinese and shame on rest of the world for not speaking out against this. Why is Muslim world silent on this?!
    The reality is a bit more nuanced than what you're led to believe. For a better understanding, see the article by the Economist below:

    China’s other Muslims
    By choosing assimilation, China’s Hui have become one of the world’s most successful Muslim minorities

    https://www.economist.com/china/2016...-other-muslims

  23. #23
    Debut
    Jul 2016
    Runs
    478
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I won't dispute China's richly deserved reputation for religious intolerance, but people here need to understand:

    China has two big Muslim groups, the Uighur of Xinjiang and the more obscure Hui. Each group has about 10 million people. Though the Uighur suffer, the Hui are thriving in China.

    The number of mosques in Ningxia (cradle of the Hui, as one of their number puts it) has more than doubled since 1958, from 1,900 to 4,000, says Ma Ping, a retired professor at Northern Nationalities University. New ones are being built across the province. The Hui are economically successful. They are rarely victims of Islamophobia. Few Muslim minorities anywhere in the world can say as much.

    One sign of how far the government tolerates the Hui is that they are even able to practice Islamic (sharia) law to a limited extent. Sharia is not recognised by the Chinese legal code. Yet at the Najiahu mosque, the ahong and the local county court share the same mediation office. Every week or so, the ahong adjudicates in family disputes using sharia. Only if he fails do civil officials step in.
    Last edited by HussainRx8; 17th May 2018 at 18:00.

  24. #24
    Debut
    Sep 2016
    Venue
    Jurassic Park.
    Runs
    4,880
    Mentioned
    60 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    This is why I never say China is Pak's "friend". The relationship is based on enmity with India and business opportunities. China oppresses Muslim more then India does. They are no lovers of Muslim's at all and never have been. Just makes me thank Allah even more for the Pakistan military.


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

  25. #25
    Debut
    Jul 2010
    Runs
    12,762
    Mentioned
    24 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    the selective morality is astounding. The same Indian posters like Varun who condone raping and killing of children by the apparatus of the Hindu state now call out other countries for poor treatment of Muslims.

    Please for the sake of human decency drop this charade. it's getting quite tedious.

  26. #26
    Debut
    Mar 2014
    Runs
    1,940
    Mentioned
    35 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowed View Post
    Everybody treats minorities badly, why single out China? It's a human failure, I mean you have people getting killed in India just because of eating beef, or Pakistani Christians being targeted by extremists just because of their faith.

    China is not perfect, but in the long run it is one country that can actually civilize interior parts of Pakistan, which are very backwards. It is the only hope of Pakistan to be honest. India can never be trusted because their only end goal is take over Pakistan and make it hindu, at least the current government defiantly has that goal
    Would love to see the figures of people died in india due to eating eat beef out of 125 crore populated country.
    Can you provide please.?

  27. #27
    Debut
    Nov 2014
    Runs
    315
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    My favourite country is china
    Loved how they take care of religious fanatic people.
    I wish India should have been like China.
    No religion above the nation

  28. #28
    Debut
    Dec 2012
    Venue
    Indian Ocean
    Runs
    16,201
    Mentioned
    350 Post(s)
    Tagged
    5 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadlyVenom View Post
    the selective morality is astounding. The same Indian posters like Varun who condone raping and killing of children by the apparatus of the Hindu state now call out other countries for poor treatment of Muslims.
    Eh, when? I only mention constantly that I'm bored of Kashmir related news. Nothing else.

  29. #29
    Debut
    Aug 2012
    Venue
    everywhere
    Runs
    21,039
    Mentioned
    252 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by akki View Post
    There is a big difference. How many muslim countries are there in world ? How many are secular? How many treats their kaafir people well ? I dnt think there are many. Many muslim population when present in majority in muslim countries they have their own laws ,forget about countries what about kashmir and all..all the hue and cry is because muslims are large in number there so they want different state.
    We live in a world these days where no one want to listen to anyone...no one wants to do favour tgese days....you want to enjoy democratic rights and all rights when living in western countries or like countries like india. But when you in majority then you hardly give them rights.
    This cannot happen these days. So treatment about black and all is irrelevant. I am talking about practical thing ,which is in front of everyone to see.
    Most muslim countries treat non-muslims well. I am not going to delve into individual hate crimes done by people because that happens in India and the western countries as well. Also, people of the book who form the larger minority in most muslim countries are not considered Kafirs in the first place.

    Secondly, the western countries claim to be liberal while most muslim countries don't. Now if you are saying that western countries should leave their liberal values to discriminate against muslims because muslim countries arent liberal, then thats a fallacy and weakness of western values. Thirdly, Chinese atrocities against muslims isnt about muslims in particular. They will target any ideology not in line with the state ideology. Even if you are a hindu or a christian, they will target you if you are in big numbers.

    Whatever i have said about it being a phase is absolutely relevant and you will see this in next two decades. There will be a new boogyman to whip when the fuss around muslims begins to lose strength.

  30. #30
    Debut
    May 2010
    Venue
    UK
    Runs
    22,202
    Mentioned
    168 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cr7great View Post
    My favourite country is china
    Loved how they take care of religious fanatic people.
    I wish India should have been like China.
    No religion above the nation
    I think that is why China is progressing while India instead of cracking down on religious fanatics is putting them in govt.


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

  31. #31
    Debut
    Jan 2010
    Runs
    28,612
    Mentioned
    432 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    "This news cannot possibly be true, because Chinese media didn't report it." # @KingKhanWC

    In fact, a change.org petition to dispel such fake news is much needed.
    Sure they lets take the word of people we have no idea who they are. We know China has issues with a certain sect of Muslims but to suggest they hate and persecute all Muslims is just false.

    There are millions of Muslims in China and many mosques , all practicing their religion openly and in peace.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  32. #32
    Debut
    Jun 2017
    Runs
    1,604
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by HussainRx8 View Post
    I won't dispute China's richly deserved reputation for religious intolerance, but people here need to understand:

    China has two big Muslim groups, the Uighur of Xinjiang and the more obscure Hui. Each group has about 10 million people. Though the Uighur suffer, the Hui are thriving in China.

    The number of mosques in Ningxia (cradle of the Hui, as one of their number puts it) has more than doubled since 1958, from 1,900 to 4,000, says Ma Ping, a retired professor at Northern Nationalities University. New ones are being built across the province. The Hui are economically successful. They are rarely victims of Islamophobia. Few Muslim minorities anywhere in the world can say as much.

    One sign of how far the government tolerates the Hui is that they are even able to practice Islamic (sharia) law to a limited extent. Sharia is not recognised by the Chinese legal code. Yet at the Najiahu mosque, the ahong and the local county court share the same mediation office. Every week or so, the ahong adjudicates in family disputes using sharia. Only if he fails do civil officials step in.
    There is a easy reason why Chinese have this double standard:

    China is a racist country.

    Uyghur are a turkish nation. China invaded their lands about 200 years ago. Now they fear that perhaps Uyghur might start an independence movement which a small group of them already has. Hence they are trying to forcefully take away the identity of the natives and encouraging other Chinese to migrate to the region so that the natives lose their dominance population wise. It is like the British colonialising south Asia and then never leaving.

    Historically Uyghur aren't know for their religious extremism. However extremism breeds extremism. Due to the extreme actions of Chinese government some Uygher youth especially those residing abroad see in the Islamic jihadist moments a chance to get freedom. By striving for a global caliphate and what not.

    The "Hui" people are ethnically and historically related to the Han Chinese.

  33. #33
    Debut
    May 2014
    Venue
    chennai
    Runs
    17,977
    Mentioned
    427 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cr7great View Post
    My favourite country is china
    Loved how they take care of religious fanatic people.
    I wish India should have been like China.
    No religion above the nation
    Yes in India we just vote religious fanatics to power, hopefully we can break RSS/VHP organization by the root someday, obviously along with the Deobands.

  34. #34
    Debut
    Dec 2012
    Venue
    Indian Ocean
    Runs
    16,201
    Mentioned
    350 Post(s)
    Tagged
    5 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    Sure they lets take the word of people we have no idea who they are. We know China has issues with a certain sect of Muslims but to suggest they hate and persecute all Muslims is just false.

    There are millions of Muslims in China and many mosques , all practicing their religion openly and in peace.
    Replace 'China' with 'India' and your post holds just as true.

    Yet.

  35. #35
    Debut
    Oct 2006
    Runs
    7,496
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    Sure they lets take the word of people we have no idea who they are. We know China has issues with a certain sect of Muslims but to suggest they hate and persecute all Muslims is just false.

    There are millions of Muslims in China and many mosques , all practicing their religion openly and in peace.
    Aww...how sweet!!

  36. #36
    Debut
    Mar 2014
    Runs
    1,940
    Mentioned
    35 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    Sure they lets take the word of people we have no idea who they are. We know China has issues with a certain sect of Muslims but to suggest they hate and persecute all Muslims is just false.

    There are millions of Muslims in China and many mosques , all practicing their religion openly and in peace.
    Bnde ki tone hi chamge hojati hi vese...thdi b understanding rkhe toh....waaah...kya bat hi..

  37. #37
    Debut
    Mar 2014
    Runs
    10,049
    Mentioned
    352 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by JaDed View Post
    Yes in India we just vote religious fanatics to power, hopefully we can break RSS/VHP organization by the root someday, obviously along with the Deobands.
    Easy to blame the religion organizations. They get to power because many indians are openly displaying and accepting their hatred. Many hindus in india hate muslims, and they will keep voting any party which sings in their tune.

  38. #38
    Debut
    Mar 2014
    Runs
    10,049
    Mentioned
    352 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    Replace 'China' with 'India' and your post holds just as true.

    Yet.
    It is really cute that indians are showing concern for chinese muslims. When it comes to china, they become muslim well wishers.

  39. #39
    Debut
    May 2014
    Venue
    chennai
    Runs
    17,977
    Mentioned
    427 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by CricketCartoons View Post
    Easy to blame the religion organizations. They get to power because many indians are openly displaying and accepting their hatred. Many hindus in india hate muslims, and they will keep voting any party which sings in their tune.
    They wont win if they only sing hatred for minorities , they won also on development agenda,the Gujarat development model last time.


    In cricket, my superhero is Sachin Tendulkar. He has always been my hero.
    -Virat Kohli

  40. #40
    Debut
    Jan 2010
    Runs
    28,612
    Mentioned
    432 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    Replace 'China' with 'India' and your post holds just as true.

    Yet.
    I would say India is similar as they also oppress certain Muslims , those in Kashmir but they do it much much worse than China.

    Quote Originally Posted by siddharth View Post
    Aww...how sweet!!
    Quote Originally Posted by akki View Post
    Bnde ki tone hi chamge hojati hi vese...thdi b understanding rkhe toh....waaah...kya bat hi..
    Sorry can you please write this in English, this isnt a Hindi site as far as im aware and therefore I have no idea what you have written.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  41. #41
    Debut
    Dec 2012
    Venue
    Indian Ocean
    Runs
    16,201
    Mentioned
    350 Post(s)
    Tagged
    5 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    I would say India is similar as they also oppress certain Muslims , those in Kashmir but they do it much much worse than China.
    You have no proof of this. Everything Kashmir is in the public domain and contributes to your confirmation bias, but I doubt even 1% of Muslims worldwide have heard of the words "Uyghur" or "Xinjiang", leave alone the fact that the Chinese government has a tight hold on the local and global media that would otherwise broadcast the happenings in that part of the world.

  42. #42
    Debut
    May 2010
    Venue
    UK
    Runs
    22,202
    Mentioned
    168 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    You have no proof of this. Everything Kashmir is in the public domain and contributes to your confirmation bias, but I doubt even 1% of Muslims worldwide have heard of the words "Uyghur" or "Xinjiang", leave alone the fact that the Chinese government has a tight hold on the local and global media that would otherwise broadcast the happenings in that part of the world.
    Is it? I thought the international media access to Kashmir was highly controlled by the Indian govt?


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

  43. #43
    Debut
    Dec 2012
    Venue
    Indian Ocean
    Runs
    16,201
    Mentioned
    350 Post(s)
    Tagged
    5 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    Is it? I thought the international media access to Kashmir was highly controlled by the Indian govt?
    International media access to several parts of India are controlled by the Indian government, Kashmir included. The point is that there is more than enough you can read, watch and hear about Kashmir from the inside and outside to foam at the mouth / get bored of - depending on who you are.

    The "Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region" on the other hand? I doubt @KingKhanWC and others can even point it on the map.

  44. #44
    Debut
    Jun 2017
    Runs
    1,604
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    You have no proof of this. Everything Kashmir is in the public domain and contributes to your confirmation bias, but I doubt even 1% of Muslims worldwide have heard of the words "Uyghur" or "Xinjiang", leave alone the fact that the Chinese government has a tight hold on the local and global media that would otherwise broadcast the happenings in that part of the world.
    Well "Xinjiang" is a name given to the region by the invading chinese forces in an attempt to "Chinaizing" the area. I prefer calling it "east Turkistan" and it is coincidentally the only area of China which borders Pakistan.

  45. #45
    Debut
    Jun 2017
    Runs
    1,604
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    There is no point in arguing about which oppressor is more oppressive than the other.

    It is true most Muslims have no clue about Uyghur and their oppression. Forget Muslims even the prideful, nationalists and seculars amongst the Turks who are so proud of their ethnicity and heritage are for the most part unaware of the state of their fellow turkish cousins.

    Admitting this short coming doesn't make the issue less relevant nor does it make the Indian oppression of Kashmiris more acceptable.

  46. #46
    Debut
    May 2010
    Venue
    UK
    Runs
    22,202
    Mentioned
    168 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    International media access to several parts of India are controlled by the Indian government, Kashmir included. The point is that there is more than enough you can read, watch and hear about Kashmir from the inside and outside to foam at the mouth / get bored of - depending on who you are.

    The "Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region" on the other hand? I doubt @KingKhanWC and others can even point it on the map.
    Then the OP and other concerned Indians should raise this issue at the appropriate international forums rather than foaming at the mouth/not getting bored of pointing it out on Pakistani message boards.


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

  47. #47
    Debut
    Dec 2012
    Venue
    Indian Ocean
    Runs
    16,201
    Mentioned
    350 Post(s)
    Tagged
    5 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    Then the OP and other concerned Indians should raise this issue at the appropriate international forums rather than foaming at the mouth/not getting bored of pointing it out on Pakistani message boards.
    I presume they can't be bothered. After all, they are merely pointing out the double standards of some others around the forum, and there needn't be any elaborate appeal to an international forum for just doing that.

  48. #48
    Debut
    May 2010
    Venue
    UK
    Runs
    22,202
    Mentioned
    168 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    I presume they can't be bothered. After all, they are merely pointing out the double standards of some others around the forum, and there needn't be any elaborate appeal to an international forum for just doing that.
    That's fair enough, you can point to their double standards, others will no doubt point to yours. This is the stuff that makes the internet such a valuable resource, let's carry on the good work. Once we get away from discussing posters standards though, we may find that politics makes for some very strange bedfellows when it comes to international relations, you may agree.


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

  49. #49
    Debut
    Feb 2018
    Runs
    406
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    Then the OP and other concerned Indians should raise this issue at the appropriate international forums rather than foaming at the mouth/not getting bored of pointing it out on Pakistani message boards.
    1) The thread isn't about OP, Indians or what India does. So please keep your discussion relevant.

    2) What Indian members are allowed to say in a "Pakistani forum" isn't up to you brother. Don't let a hollow, selfgiven title go to your head.

  50. #50
    Debut
    May 2010
    Venue
    UK
    Runs
    22,202
    Mentioned
    168 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by BlackShadow View Post
    1) The thread isn't about OP, Indians or what India does. So please keep your discussion relevant.

    2) What Indian members are allowed to say in a "Pakistani forum" isn't up to you brother. Don't let a hollow, selfgiven title go to your head.
    Since you raised the topic, do you actually have a point wrt the OP?


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

  51. #51
    Debut
    Apr 2013
    Venue
    Karachi
    Runs
    21,495
    Mentioned
    934 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Inside the camps where China tries to brainwash Muslims until they love the party and hate their own culture

    Long article so added in spoiler:


    Hour upon hour, day upon day, Omir Bekali and other detainees in far western China’s new indoctrination camps had to disavow their Islamic beliefs, criticise themselves and their loved ones and give thanks to the ruling Communist Party.

    When Bekali, a Kazakh Muslim, refused to follow orders each day, he was forced to stand by a wall for five hours at a time.

    A week later, he was sent to solitary confinement, where he was deprived of food for 24 hours. After 20 days in the heavily guarded camp, he wanted to kill himself.

    “The psychological pressure is enormous, when you have to criticise yourself, denounce your thinking – your own ethnic group,” said Bekali, who broke down in tears as he described the camp.

    “I still think about it every night, until the sun rises. I can’t sleep. The thoughts are with me all the time.”

    Since last spring, Chinese authorities in the heavily Muslim region of Xinjiang have ensnared tens, possibly hundreds of thousands of Muslim Chinese – and even foreign citizens – in mass internment camps. This detention campaign has swept across Xinjiang, a territory half the area of India, leading to what a US commission on China last month said is “the largest mass incarceration of a minority population in the world today.”

    Chinese officials have largely avoided comment on the camps, but some have been quoted in state media as saying that ideological changes are needed to fight separatism and Islamic extremism. Radical Muslim Uygurs have killed hundreds in recent years, and China considers the region a threat to peace in a country where the majority is Han Chinese.

    The internment programme aims to rewire the political thinking of detainees, erase their Islamic beliefs and reshape their very identities. The camps have expanded rapidly over the past year, with almost no judicial process or legal paperwork.

    Detainees who most vigorously criticise the people and things they love are rewarded, and those who refuse to do so are punished with solitary confinement, beatings and food deprivation.

    The recollections of Bekali, a heavyset and quiet 42-year-old, offer what appears to be the most detailed account yet of life inside so-called re-education camps.

    The Associated Press also conducted rare interviews with three other former internees and a former instructor in other centres who corroborated Bekali’s depiction. Most spoke on condition of anonymity to protect their families in China.

    Bekali’s case stands out because he was a foreign citizen, of Kazakhstan, who was seized by China’s security agencies and detained for eight months last year without recourse.

    Although some details are impossible to verify, two Kazakh diplomats confirmed he was held for seven months and then sent for re-education.

    The detention programme is a hallmark of China’s emboldened state security apparatus under the deeply nationalistic, hardline rule of President Xi Jinping.

    It is partly rooted in the ancient Chinese belief in transformation through education – taken once before to terrifying extremes during the mass thought reform campaigns of Mao Zedong, the Chinese leader sometimes channelled by Xi.

    “Cultural cleansing is Beijing’s attempt to find a final solution to the Xinjiang problem,” said James Millward, a China historian at Georgetown University in Washington.

    Rian Thum, a professor at Loyola University in New Orleans, said China’s re-education system echoes some of the worst human rights violations in history.

    “The closest analogue is maybe the Cultural Revolution in that this will leave long-term, psychological effects,” Thum said. “This will create a multigenerational trauma from which many people will never recover.”

    Asked to comment on the camps, China’s Foreign Ministry said it “had not heard” of the situation. When asked why non-Chinese had been detained, it said the Chinese government protects the rights of foreigners in China and they should also be law-abiding.

    Chinese officials in Xinjiang did not respond to requests for comment.

    However, bits and pieces from state media and journals show the confidence Xinjiang officials hold in methods that they say work well to curb religious extremism.

    China’s top prosecutor, Zhang Jun, urged Xinjiang’s authorities this month to extensively expand what the government calls the “transformation through education” drive in an “all-out effort” to fight separatism and extremism.

    In a June 2017 paper published by a state-run journal, a researcher from Xinjiang’s Communist Party School reported that most of 588 surveyed participants did not know what they had done wrong when they were sent to re-education. But by the time they were released, nearly all – 98.8 per cent – had learned their mistakes, the paper said.

    Transformation through education, the researcher concluded, “is a permanent cure.”

    On the chilly morning of March 23, 2017, Bekali drove up to the Chinese border from his home in Almaty, Kazakhstan’s largest city, got a stamp in his Kazakh passport and crossed over for a work trip, not quite grasping the extraordinary circumstances he was stepping into.

    Bekali was born in China in 1976 to Kazakh and Uygur parents, moved to Kazakhstan in 2006 and received citizenship three years later. He was out of China in 2016, when authorities sharply escalated a “People’s War on Terror” to root out what the government called religious extremism and separatism in Xinjiang, a large Chinese territory bordering Pakistan and several Central Asian states, including Kazakhstan.

    The Xinjiang he returned to was unrecognisable. All-encompassing, data-driven surveillance tracked residents in a region with around 12 million Muslims, including ethnic Uygurs and Kazakhs. Viewing a foreign website, taking phone calls from relatives abroad, praying regularly or growing a beard could land one in a political indoctrination camp, or prison, or both.

    The new internment system was shrouded in secrecy, with no publicly available data on the numbers of camps or detainees. The US State Department estimates those being held are “at the very least in the tens of thousands.”

    A Turkey-based TV station run by Xinjiang exiles said almost 900,000 were detained, citing leaked government documents.

    Adrian Zenz, a researcher at the European School of Culture and Theology, puts the number between several hundreds of thousands and just over 1 million.

    Government bids and recruitment ads studied by Zenz suggest that the camps have cost more than US$100 million since 2016, and construction is ongoing.

    Bekali knew none of this when he visited his parents on March 25. He passed police checkpoints and handed over his decade-old Chinese identity card.

    The next day, five armed policemen showed up at Bekali’s parents’ doorstep and took him away.

    They said there was a warrant for his arrest in Karamay, a frontier oil town where he lived a decade earlier. He couldn’t call his parents or a lawyer, the police added, because his case was “special.”

    Bekali was held in a cell, incommunicado, for a week, and then was driven 800 kilometres (500 miles) to Karamay’s Baijiantan District public security office.

    There, they strapped him into a “tiger chair,” a device that clamped down his wrists and ankles. They also hung him by his wrists against a barred wall, just high enough so he would feel excruciating pressure in his shoulder unless he stood on the balls of his bare feet. They interrogated him about his work with a tourist agency inviting Chinese to apply for Kazakh tourist visas, which they claimed was a way to help Chinese Muslims escape.

    “I haven’t committed any crimes!” Bekali yelled.

    They asked for days what he knew about two dozen prominent ethnic Uygur activists and businessmen in Kazakhstan. Exhausted and aching, Bekali coughed up what he knew about a few names he recognised.

    The police then sent Bekali to a 10 by 10-metre (32 by 32ft) cell in the prison with 17 others, their feet chained to the posts of two large beds. Some wore dark blue uniforms, while others wore orange for political crimes. Bekali was given orange.

    In mid-July, three months after his arrest, Bekali received a visit from Kazakh diplomats. China’s mass detention of ethnic Kazakhs – and even Kazakh citizens – has begun to make waves in the Central Asian country of 18 million.

    Kazakh officials say China detained 10 Kazakh citizens and hundreds of ethnic Kazakh Chinese in Xinjiang over the past year, though they were released in late April following a visit by a Kazakh deputy foreign minister.

    Four months after the visit, Bekali was taken out of his cell and handed a release paper.

    But he was not yet free.

    Bekali was driven from jail to a fenced compound in the northern suburbs of Karamay, where three buildings held more than 1,000 internees receiving political indoctrination, he said.

    He walked in, past a central station that could see over the entire facility, and received a tracksuit. Heavily armed guards watched over the compound from a second level. He joined a cell with 40 internees, he said, including teachers, doctors and students. Men and women were separated.

    Internees would wake up together before dawn, sing the Chinese national anthem, and raise the Chinese flag at 7.30am. They gathered back inside large classrooms to learn “red songs” like Without the Communist Party, there is no New China, and study Chinese language and history.

    They were told that the indigenous sheepherding Central Asian people of Xinjiang were backward and yoked by slavery before they were “liberated” by the Communist Party in the 1950s.

    Before meals of vegetable soup and buns, the inmates would be ordered to chant: “Thank the Party! Thank the Motherland! Thank President Xi!”

    Discipline was strictly enforced and punishment could be harsh. Bekali was kept in a locked room almost around the clock with eight other internees, who shared beds and a wretched toilet.

    Cameras were installed in toilets and even outhouses. Baths were rare, as was washing of hands and feet, which internees were told was equated with Islamic ablution.

    Bekali and other former internees say the worst parts of the indoctrination programme were forced repetition and self-criticism. Although students didn’t understand much of what was taught and the material bordered on the nonsensical to them, they were made to internalise it by repetition in sessions lasting two hours or longer.

    “We will oppose extremism, we will oppose separatism, we will oppose terrorism,” they chanted again and again. Almost every day, the students received guest lecturers from the local police, judiciary and other branches of government warning about the dangers of separatism and extremism.

    In four-hour sessions, instructors lectured about the dangers of Islam and drilled internees with quizzes that they had to answer correctly or be sent to stand near a wall for hours on end.

    “Do you obey Chinese law or sharia?” instructors asked. “Do you understand why religion is dangerous?”

    One by one, internees would stand up before 60 of their classmates to present self-criticisms of their religious history, Bekali said. The detainees would also have to criticise and be criticised by their peers. Those who parroted official lines particularly well or lashed into their fellow internees viciously were awarded points and could be transferred to more comfortable surroundings in other buildings, he said.

    “I was taught the Holy Koran by my father and I learned it because I didn’t know better,” Bekali heard one say.

    “I travelled outside China without knowing that I could be exposed to extremist thoughts abroad,” Bekali recalled another saying. “Now I know.”

    A Uygur woman told AP she was held in a centre in the city of Hotan in 2016. She said she and fellow prisoners repeatedly were forced to apologise for wearing long clothes in Muslim style, praying, teaching the Koran to their children and asking imams to name their children.

    Praying at a mosque on any day other than Friday was a sign of extremism; so was attending Friday prayers outside their village or having Quranic verses or graphics on their phones.

    While instructors watched, those who confessed to such behaviour were told to repeat over and over: “We have done illegal things, but we now know better.”

    Other detainees and a re-education camp instructor tell similar stories.

    In mid-2017, a Uygur former on-air reporter for Xinjiang TV known as Eldost was recruited to teach Chinese history and culture in an indoctrination camp because he spoke excellent Mandarin. He had no choice.

    The re-education system, Eldost said, classified internees into three levels of security and duration of sentences.

    The first group typically consisted of illiterate minority farmers who didn’t commit any ostensible crimes other than not speaking Chinese. The second class was made up of people who were caught at home or on their smartphones with religious content or so-called separatist materials, such as lectures by the jailed Uygur intellectual Ilham Tohti.

    The final group was made up of those who had studied religion abroad and came back, or were seen to be affiliated with foreign elements.

    In the latter cases, internees were often were sentenced to prison terms of 10 to 15 years, Eldost said.

    While he was teaching, Eldost once saw through the window 20 students driven into the courtyard. Two rows of guards waited for them and beat them as soon as they got out of the police van. He later heard that the internees were recent arrivals who had studied religion in the Middle East.

    Violence was not regularly dispensed, but every internee AP spoke to saw at least one incident of rough treatment or beatings.

    Eldost said the instruction was aimed at showing how backward traditional Uygur culture is and how repressive fundamentalist Islam is compared to a progressive Communist Party. The internees’ confessions of their backwardness helped drive the point home.

    “Internees are told to repeat those confessions to the point where, when they are finally freed, they believe that they owe the country a lot, that they could never repay the party,” said Eldost, who escaped from China in August after paying a bribe.

    Eldost said he tried in little ways to help his internees. Tasked with teaching the Three Character Classic, a Confucian standard taught widely in junior schools, he would make up mnemonic devices to help his students – including elderly or illiterate Uygur farmers who barely knew their own language – recite a few lines.

    He also advised students to stop habitually saying “praise God” in Arabic and Uygur because other instructors punished them for it.

    Every time he went to sleep in a room with 80 others, he said, the last thing he would hear was the sound of misery.

    “I heard people crying every night,” he said. “That was the saddest experience in my life.”

    Another former detainee, a Uygur from Hotan in southern Xinjiang, said his newly built centre had just 90 people in two classes in 2015. There, a government instructor claimed said that Uygur women historically did not wear underwear, braided their hair to signal their sexual availability, and had dozens of sexual partners.

    “It made me so angry,” the detainee said. “These kinds of explanations of Uygur women humiliated me. I still remember this story every time I think about this, I feel like a knife cut a hole in my chest.”

    Kayrat Samarkan, a Chinese Kazakh from Astana who was detained while running errands in a northern Xinjiang police station in December, was sent to an internment camp in Karamagay in northern Xinjiang with 5,700 students.

    Those who did not obey, were late to class or got into fights were put for 12 hours in a loose body-suit that was made of iron and limited their movement, he said. Those who still disobeyed would be locked in a tiger chair for 24 hours. As one form of punishment, he said, instructors would press an internee’s head in a tub of ice and water.

    After three months, Samarkan couldn’t take the lessons any more, so he bashed his head against a wall to try to kill himself. He merely fell unconscious.

    “When I woke up, the staff threatened me, saying if I did that again they would extend my sentence to seven years there,” he said.

    After 20 days, Bekali also contemplated suicide. Several days later, because of his intransigence and refusal to speak Mandarin, Bekali was no longer permitted to go into the courtyard. Instead, he was sent to a higher level of management, where he spent 24 hours a day in a room with 8 others.

    A week later, he went to his first stint in solitary confinement. He saw a local judicial official walking into the building on an inspection tour and yelled at the top of his lungs. He thought even his former detention centre, with the abuse he suffered, would be better.

    “Take me in the back and kill me, or send me back to prison,” he shouted. “I can’t be here any more.”

    He was again hauled off to solitary confinement. It lasted 24 hours, ending late in the afternoon on November 24.

    That was when Bekali was released, as suddenly as he was detained eight months earlier.

    A policemen from Baijiantan who had always gone easy on Bekali during interrogation appeared and checked him out of the facility.

    “You were too headstrong, but what the department did was unjust,” he told Bekali as he drove him to his sister’s home in Karamay.

    Bekali was free.

    The next morning, a Saturday, the police opened their immigration office for Bekali to pick up a unique, 14-day Chinese visa. His original had long expired. Bekali left China on December 4.

    Seeking compensation from the Chinese government is out of the question. But Bekali keeps a plastic folder at home of evidence that might prove useful someday: his passport with stamps and visas, travel records and a handwritten Chinese police document dated and imprinted with red-ink seals.

    The document is the closest thing he has to an official acknowledgement that he suffered for eight months. It says he was held on suspicion of endangering national security; the last sentence declares him released without charge.

    At first, Bekali did not want the AP to publish his account for fear that his sister and mother in China would be detained and sent to re-education.

    But on March 10, back in China, the police took his sister, Adila Bekali. A week later, on March 19, his mother Amina Sadik was led away. In early April, Bekali called his father, Ebrayem. He told Bekali to take good care of himself, as if to bid farewell before the inevitable.

    Bekali changed his mind and said he wanted to tell his story, no matter the consequences.

    “Things have already come this far,” he said. “I have nothing left to lose.”



    http://www.scmp.com/news/china/polic...-muslims-until


    Follow PakPassion on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram!

  52. #52
    Debut
    Jun 2017
    Runs
    1,604
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah719 View Post
    Inside the camps where China tries to brainwash Muslims until they love the party and hate their own culture

    Long article so added in spoiler:


    Hour upon hour, day upon day, Omir Bekali and other detainees in far western China’s new indoctrination camps had to disavow their Islamic beliefs, criticise themselves and their loved ones and give thanks to the ruling Communist Party.

    When Bekali, a Kazakh Muslim, refused to follow orders each day, he was forced to stand by a wall for five hours at a time.

    A week later, he was sent to solitary confinement, where he was deprived of food for 24 hours. After 20 days in the heavily guarded camp, he wanted to kill himself.

    “The psychological pressure is enormous, when you have to criticise yourself, denounce your thinking – your own ethnic group,” said Bekali, who broke down in tears as he described the camp.

    “I still think about it every night, until the sun rises. I can’t sleep. The thoughts are with me all the time.”

    Since last spring, Chinese authorities in the heavily Muslim region of Xinjiang have ensnared tens, possibly hundreds of thousands of Muslim Chinese – and even foreign citizens – in mass internment camps. This detention campaign has swept across Xinjiang, a territory half the area of India, leading to what a US commission on China last month said is “the largest mass incarceration of a minority population in the world today.”

    Chinese officials have largely avoided comment on the camps, but some have been quoted in state media as saying that ideological changes are needed to fight separatism and Islamic extremism. Radical Muslim Uygurs have killed hundreds in recent years, and China considers the region a threat to peace in a country where the majority is Han Chinese.

    The internment programme aims to rewire the political thinking of detainees, erase their Islamic beliefs and reshape their very identities. The camps have expanded rapidly over the past year, with almost no judicial process or legal paperwork.

    Detainees who most vigorously criticise the people and things they love are rewarded, and those who refuse to do so are punished with solitary confinement, beatings and food deprivation.

    The recollections of Bekali, a heavyset and quiet 42-year-old, offer what appears to be the most detailed account yet of life inside so-called re-education camps.

    The Associated Press also conducted rare interviews with three other former internees and a former instructor in other centres who corroborated Bekali’s depiction. Most spoke on condition of anonymity to protect their families in China.

    Bekali’s case stands out because he was a foreign citizen, of Kazakhstan, who was seized by China’s security agencies and detained for eight months last year without recourse.

    Although some details are impossible to verify, two Kazakh diplomats confirmed he was held for seven months and then sent for re-education.

    The detention programme is a hallmark of China’s emboldened state security apparatus under the deeply nationalistic, hardline rule of President Xi Jinping.

    It is partly rooted in the ancient Chinese belief in transformation through education – taken once before to terrifying extremes during the mass thought reform campaigns of Mao Zedong, the Chinese leader sometimes channelled by Xi.

    “Cultural cleansing is Beijing’s attempt to find a final solution to the Xinjiang problem,” said James Millward, a China historian at Georgetown University in Washington.

    Rian Thum, a professor at Loyola University in New Orleans, said China’s re-education system echoes some of the worst human rights violations in history.

    “The closest analogue is maybe the Cultural Revolution in that this will leave long-term, psychological effects,” Thum said. “This will create a multigenerational trauma from which many people will never recover.”

    Asked to comment on the camps, China’s Foreign Ministry said it “had not heard” of the situation. When asked why non-Chinese had been detained, it said the Chinese government protects the rights of foreigners in China and they should also be law-abiding.

    Chinese officials in Xinjiang did not respond to requests for comment.

    However, bits and pieces from state media and journals show the confidence Xinjiang officials hold in methods that they say work well to curb religious extremism.

    China’s top prosecutor, Zhang Jun, urged Xinjiang’s authorities this month to extensively expand what the government calls the “transformation through education” drive in an “all-out effort” to fight separatism and extremism.

    In a June 2017 paper published by a state-run journal, a researcher from Xinjiang’s Communist Party School reported that most of 588 surveyed participants did not know what they had done wrong when they were sent to re-education. But by the time they were released, nearly all – 98.8 per cent – had learned their mistakes, the paper said.

    Transformation through education, the researcher concluded, “is a permanent cure.”

    On the chilly morning of March 23, 2017, Bekali drove up to the Chinese border from his home in Almaty, Kazakhstan’s largest city, got a stamp in his Kazakh passport and crossed over for a work trip, not quite grasping the extraordinary circumstances he was stepping into.

    Bekali was born in China in 1976 to Kazakh and Uygur parents, moved to Kazakhstan in 2006 and received citizenship three years later. He was out of China in 2016, when authorities sharply escalated a “People’s War on Terror” to root out what the government called religious extremism and separatism in Xinjiang, a large Chinese territory bordering Pakistan and several Central Asian states, including Kazakhstan.

    The Xinjiang he returned to was unrecognisable. All-encompassing, data-driven surveillance tracked residents in a region with around 12 million Muslims, including ethnic Uygurs and Kazakhs. Viewing a foreign website, taking phone calls from relatives abroad, praying regularly or growing a beard could land one in a political indoctrination camp, or prison, or both.

    The new internment system was shrouded in secrecy, with no publicly available data on the numbers of camps or detainees. The US State Department estimates those being held are “at the very least in the tens of thousands.”

    A Turkey-based TV station run by Xinjiang exiles said almost 900,000 were detained, citing leaked government documents.

    Adrian Zenz, a researcher at the European School of Culture and Theology, puts the number between several hundreds of thousands and just over 1 million.

    Government bids and recruitment ads studied by Zenz suggest that the camps have cost more than US$100 million since 2016, and construction is ongoing.

    Bekali knew none of this when he visited his parents on March 25. He passed police checkpoints and handed over his decade-old Chinese identity card.

    The next day, five armed policemen showed up at Bekali’s parents’ doorstep and took him away.

    They said there was a warrant for his arrest in Karamay, a frontier oil town where he lived a decade earlier. He couldn’t call his parents or a lawyer, the police added, because his case was “special.”

    Bekali was held in a cell, incommunicado, for a week, and then was driven 800 kilometres (500 miles) to Karamay’s Baijiantan District public security office.

    There, they strapped him into a “tiger chair,” a device that clamped down his wrists and ankles. They also hung him by his wrists against a barred wall, just high enough so he would feel excruciating pressure in his shoulder unless he stood on the balls of his bare feet. They interrogated him about his work with a tourist agency inviting Chinese to apply for Kazakh tourist visas, which they claimed was a way to help Chinese Muslims escape.

    “I haven’t committed any crimes!” Bekali yelled.

    They asked for days what he knew about two dozen prominent ethnic Uygur activists and businessmen in Kazakhstan. Exhausted and aching, Bekali coughed up what he knew about a few names he recognised.

    The police then sent Bekali to a 10 by 10-metre (32 by 32ft) cell in the prison with 17 others, their feet chained to the posts of two large beds. Some wore dark blue uniforms, while others wore orange for political crimes. Bekali was given orange.

    In mid-July, three months after his arrest, Bekali received a visit from Kazakh diplomats. China’s mass detention of ethnic Kazakhs – and even Kazakh citizens – has begun to make waves in the Central Asian country of 18 million.

    Kazakh officials say China detained 10 Kazakh citizens and hundreds of ethnic Kazakh Chinese in Xinjiang over the past year, though they were released in late April following a visit by a Kazakh deputy foreign minister.

    Four months after the visit, Bekali was taken out of his cell and handed a release paper.

    But he was not yet free.

    Bekali was driven from jail to a fenced compound in the northern suburbs of Karamay, where three buildings held more than 1,000 internees receiving political indoctrination, he said.

    He walked in, past a central station that could see over the entire facility, and received a tracksuit. Heavily armed guards watched over the compound from a second level. He joined a cell with 40 internees, he said, including teachers, doctors and students. Men and women were separated.

    Internees would wake up together before dawn, sing the Chinese national anthem, and raise the Chinese flag at 7.30am. They gathered back inside large classrooms to learn “red songs” like Without the Communist Party, there is no New China, and study Chinese language and history.

    They were told that the indigenous sheepherding Central Asian people of Xinjiang were backward and yoked by slavery before they were “liberated” by the Communist Party in the 1950s.

    Before meals of vegetable soup and buns, the inmates would be ordered to chant: “Thank the Party! Thank the Motherland! Thank President Xi!”

    Discipline was strictly enforced and punishment could be harsh. Bekali was kept in a locked room almost around the clock with eight other internees, who shared beds and a wretched toilet.

    Cameras were installed in toilets and even outhouses. Baths were rare, as was washing of hands and feet, which internees were told was equated with Islamic ablution.

    Bekali and other former internees say the worst parts of the indoctrination programme were forced repetition and self-criticism. Although students didn’t understand much of what was taught and the material bordered on the nonsensical to them, they were made to internalise it by repetition in sessions lasting two hours or longer.

    “We will oppose extremism, we will oppose separatism, we will oppose terrorism,” they chanted again and again. Almost every day, the students received guest lecturers from the local police, judiciary and other branches of government warning about the dangers of separatism and extremism.

    In four-hour sessions, instructors lectured about the dangers of Islam and drilled internees with quizzes that they had to answer correctly or be sent to stand near a wall for hours on end.

    “Do you obey Chinese law or sharia?” instructors asked. “Do you understand why religion is dangerous?”

    One by one, internees would stand up before 60 of their classmates to present self-criticisms of their religious history, Bekali said. The detainees would also have to criticise and be criticised by their peers. Those who parroted official lines particularly well or lashed into their fellow internees viciously were awarded points and could be transferred to more comfortable surroundings in other buildings, he said.

    “I was taught the Holy Koran by my father and I learned it because I didn’t know better,” Bekali heard one say.

    “I travelled outside China without knowing that I could be exposed to extremist thoughts abroad,” Bekali recalled another saying. “Now I know.”

    A Uygur woman told AP she was held in a centre in the city of Hotan in 2016. She said she and fellow prisoners repeatedly were forced to apologise for wearing long clothes in Muslim style, praying, teaching the Koran to their children and asking imams to name their children.

    Praying at a mosque on any day other than Friday was a sign of extremism; so was attending Friday prayers outside their village or having Quranic verses or graphics on their phones.

    While instructors watched, those who confessed to such behaviour were told to repeat over and over: “We have done illegal things, but we now know better.”

    Other detainees and a re-education camp instructor tell similar stories.

    In mid-2017, a Uygur former on-air reporter for Xinjiang TV known as Eldost was recruited to teach Chinese history and culture in an indoctrination camp because he spoke excellent Mandarin. He had no choice.

    The re-education system, Eldost said, classified internees into three levels of security and duration of sentences.

    The first group typically consisted of illiterate minority farmers who didn’t commit any ostensible crimes other than not speaking Chinese. The second class was made up of people who were caught at home or on their smartphones with religious content or so-called separatist materials, such as lectures by the jailed Uygur intellectual Ilham Tohti.

    The final group was made up of those who had studied religion abroad and came back, or were seen to be affiliated with foreign elements.

    In the latter cases, internees were often were sentenced to prison terms of 10 to 15 years, Eldost said.

    While he was teaching, Eldost once saw through the window 20 students driven into the courtyard. Two rows of guards waited for them and beat them as soon as they got out of the police van. He later heard that the internees were recent arrivals who had studied religion in the Middle East.

    Violence was not regularly dispensed, but every internee AP spoke to saw at least one incident of rough treatment or beatings.

    Eldost said the instruction was aimed at showing how backward traditional Uygur culture is and how repressive fundamentalist Islam is compared to a progressive Communist Party. The internees’ confessions of their backwardness helped drive the point home.

    “Internees are told to repeat those confessions to the point where, when they are finally freed, they believe that they owe the country a lot, that they could never repay the party,” said Eldost, who escaped from China in August after paying a bribe.

    Eldost said he tried in little ways to help his internees. Tasked with teaching the Three Character Classic, a Confucian standard taught widely in junior schools, he would make up mnemonic devices to help his students – including elderly or illiterate Uygur farmers who barely knew their own language – recite a few lines.

    He also advised students to stop habitually saying “praise God” in Arabic and Uygur because other instructors punished them for it.

    Every time he went to sleep in a room with 80 others, he said, the last thing he would hear was the sound of misery.

    “I heard people crying every night,” he said. “That was the saddest experience in my life.”

    Another former detainee, a Uygur from Hotan in southern Xinjiang, said his newly built centre had just 90 people in two classes in 2015. There, a government instructor claimed said that Uygur women historically did not wear underwear, braided their hair to signal their sexual availability, and had dozens of sexual partners.

    “It made me so angry,” the detainee said. “These kinds of explanations of Uygur women humiliated me. I still remember this story every time I think about this, I feel like a knife cut a hole in my chest.”

    Kayrat Samarkan, a Chinese Kazakh from Astana who was detained while running errands in a northern Xinjiang police station in December, was sent to an internment camp in Karamagay in northern Xinjiang with 5,700 students.

    Those who did not obey, were late to class or got into fights were put for 12 hours in a loose body-suit that was made of iron and limited their movement, he said. Those who still disobeyed would be locked in a tiger chair for 24 hours. As one form of punishment, he said, instructors would press an internee’s head in a tub of ice and water.

    After three months, Samarkan couldn’t take the lessons any more, so he bashed his head against a wall to try to kill himself. He merely fell unconscious.

    “When I woke up, the staff threatened me, saying if I did that again they would extend my sentence to seven years there,” he said.

    After 20 days, Bekali also contemplated suicide. Several days later, because of his intransigence and refusal to speak Mandarin, Bekali was no longer permitted to go into the courtyard. Instead, he was sent to a higher level of management, where he spent 24 hours a day in a room with 8 others.

    A week later, he went to his first stint in solitary confinement. He saw a local judicial official walking into the building on an inspection tour and yelled at the top of his lungs. He thought even his former detention centre, with the abuse he suffered, would be better.

    “Take me in the back and kill me, or send me back to prison,” he shouted. “I can’t be here any more.”

    He was again hauled off to solitary confinement. It lasted 24 hours, ending late in the afternoon on November 24.

    That was when Bekali was released, as suddenly as he was detained eight months earlier.

    A policemen from Baijiantan who had always gone easy on Bekali during interrogation appeared and checked him out of the facility.

    “You were too headstrong, but what the department did was unjust,” he told Bekali as he drove him to his sister’s home in Karamay.

    Bekali was free.

    The next morning, a Saturday, the police opened their immigration office for Bekali to pick up a unique, 14-day Chinese visa. His original had long expired. Bekali left China on December 4.

    Seeking compensation from the Chinese government is out of the question. But Bekali keeps a plastic folder at home of evidence that might prove useful someday: his passport with stamps and visas, travel records and a handwritten Chinese police document dated and imprinted with red-ink seals.

    The document is the closest thing he has to an official acknowledgement that he suffered for eight months. It says he was held on suspicion of endangering national security; the last sentence declares him released without charge.

    At first, Bekali did not want the AP to publish his account for fear that his sister and mother in China would be detained and sent to re-education.

    But on March 10, back in China, the police took his sister, Adila Bekali. A week later, on March 19, his mother Amina Sadik was led away. In early April, Bekali called his father, Ebrayem. He told Bekali to take good care of himself, as if to bid farewell before the inevitable.

    Bekali changed his mind and said he wanted to tell his story, no matter the consequences.

    “Things have already come this far,” he said. “I have nothing left to lose.”



    http://www.scmp.com/news/china/polic...-muslims-until
    Thanks for sharing.

    This is spreading atheism by force no doubt. I am against it to the same extent I am against spreading religion by force.

    Longterm I only see an increase in violence and extremism in that region. Chinese are deluded.

  53. #53
    Debut
    Jan 2010
    Runs
    28,612
    Mentioned
    432 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    International media access to several parts of India are controlled by the Indian government, Kashmir included. The point is that there is more than enough you can read, watch and hear about Kashmir from the inside and outside to foam at the mouth / get bored of - depending on who you are.

    The "Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region" on the other hand? I doubt @KingKhanWC and others can even point it on the map.
    I know where it is.

    Let me help clarify the diffierence. Chinese are equal in their ill treatment of any sepratists, it has nothing do with religion and we cannot take the words of a couple of people as the truth. Yes they do punish Muslims in this area but in other areas Muslims are flourhising more than any other religious minority, it can be argued Muslims have it easier than anyone else in China.

    India's treatment of Kashmiri's is far worse and you have a ruling power who is anti Muslim in nature, anti Sikh and anti Christiain too but mostly anti Muslims. Muslims ruled India which is eating them up, while this has never been the case in China.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  54. #54
    Debut
    Jun 2017
    Runs
    1,604
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    I know where it is.

    Let me help clarify the diffierence. Chinese are equal in their ill treatment of any sepratists, it has nothing do with religion and we cannot take the words of a couple of people as the truth. Yes they do punish Muslims in this area but in other areas Muslims are flourhising more than any other religious minority, it can be argued Muslims have it easier than anyone else in China.

    India's treatment of Kashmiri's is far worse and you have a ruling power who is anti Muslim in nature, anti Sikh and anti Christiain too but mostly anti Muslims. Muslims ruled India which is eating them up, while this has never been the case in China.
    It can also be argued that Muslims in other parts of India are to some extent less persecuted than the ones in Kashmir. There is no point in being stubborn.

    Please do read the following article and reconsider your position.

    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah719 View Post
    Inside the camps where China tries to brainwash Muslims until they love the party and hate their own culture

    Long article so added in spoiler:


    Hour upon hour, day upon day, Omir Bekali and other detainees in far western China’s new indoctrination camps had to disavow their Islamic beliefs, criticise themselves and their loved ones and give thanks to the ruling Communist Party.

    When Bekali, a Kazakh Muslim, refused to follow orders each day, he was forced to stand by a wall for five hours at a time.

    A week later, he was sent to solitary confinement, where he was deprived of food for 24 hours. After 20 days in the heavily guarded camp, he wanted to kill himself.

    “The psychological pressure is enormous, when you have to criticise yourself, denounce your thinking – your own ethnic group,” said Bekali, who broke down in tears as he described the camp.

    “I still think about it every night, until the sun rises. I can’t sleep. The thoughts are with me all the time.”

    Since last spring, Chinese authorities in the heavily Muslim region of Xinjiang have ensnared tens, possibly hundreds of thousands of Muslim Chinese – and even foreign citizens – in mass internment camps. This detention campaign has swept across Xinjiang, a territory half the area of India, leading to what a US commission on China last month said is “the largest mass incarceration of a minority population in the world today.”

    Chinese officials have largely avoided comment on the camps, but some have been quoted in state media as saying that ideological changes are needed to fight separatism and Islamic extremism. Radical Muslim Uygurs have killed hundreds in recent years, and China considers the region a threat to peace in a country where the majority is Han Chinese.

    The internment programme aims to rewire the political thinking of detainees, erase their Islamic beliefs and reshape their very identities. The camps have expanded rapidly over the past year, with almost no judicial process or legal paperwork.

    Detainees who most vigorously criticise the people and things they love are rewarded, and those who refuse to do so are punished with solitary confinement, beatings and food deprivation.

    The recollections of Bekali, a heavyset and quiet 42-year-old, offer what appears to be the most detailed account yet of life inside so-called re-education camps.

    The Associated Press also conducted rare interviews with three other former internees and a former instructor in other centres who corroborated Bekali’s depiction. Most spoke on condition of anonymity to protect their families in China.

    Bekali’s case stands out because he was a foreign citizen, of Kazakhstan, who was seized by China’s security agencies and detained for eight months last year without recourse.

    Although some details are impossible to verify, two Kazakh diplomats confirmed he was held for seven months and then sent for re-education.

    The detention programme is a hallmark of China’s emboldened state security apparatus under the deeply nationalistic, hardline rule of President Xi Jinping.

    It is partly rooted in the ancient Chinese belief in transformation through education – taken once before to terrifying extremes during the mass thought reform campaigns of Mao Zedong, the Chinese leader sometimes channelled by Xi.

    “Cultural cleansing is Beijing’s attempt to find a final solution to the Xinjiang problem,” said James Millward, a China historian at Georgetown University in Washington.

    Rian Thum, a professor at Loyola University in New Orleans, said China’s re-education system echoes some of the worst human rights violations in history.

    “The closest analogue is maybe the Cultural Revolution in that this will leave long-term, psychological effects,” Thum said. “This will create a multigenerational trauma from which many people will never recover.”

    Asked to comment on the camps, China’s Foreign Ministry said it “had not heard” of the situation. When asked why non-Chinese had been detained, it said the Chinese government protects the rights of foreigners in China and they should also be law-abiding.

    Chinese officials in Xinjiang did not respond to requests for comment.

    However, bits and pieces from state media and journals show the confidence Xinjiang officials hold in methods that they say work well to curb religious extremism.

    China’s top prosecutor, Zhang Jun, urged Xinjiang’s authorities this month to extensively expand what the government calls the “transformation through education” drive in an “all-out effort” to fight separatism and extremism.

    In a June 2017 paper published by a state-run journal, a researcher from Xinjiang’s Communist Party School reported that most of 588 surveyed participants did not know what they had done wrong when they were sent to re-education. But by the time they were released, nearly all – 98.8 per cent – had learned their mistakes, the paper said.

    Transformation through education, the researcher concluded, “is a permanent cure.”

    On the chilly morning of March 23, 2017, Bekali drove up to the Chinese border from his home in Almaty, Kazakhstan’s largest city, got a stamp in his Kazakh passport and crossed over for a work trip, not quite grasping the extraordinary circumstances he was stepping into.

    Bekali was born in China in 1976 to Kazakh and Uygur parents, moved to Kazakhstan in 2006 and received citizenship three years later. He was out of China in 2016, when authorities sharply escalated a “People’s War on Terror” to root out what the government called religious extremism and separatism in Xinjiang, a large Chinese territory bordering Pakistan and several Central Asian states, including Kazakhstan.

    The Xinjiang he returned to was unrecognisable. All-encompassing, data-driven surveillance tracked residents in a region with around 12 million Muslims, including ethnic Uygurs and Kazakhs. Viewing a foreign website, taking phone calls from relatives abroad, praying regularly or growing a beard could land one in a political indoctrination camp, or prison, or both.

    The new internment system was shrouded in secrecy, with no publicly available data on the numbers of camps or detainees. The US State Department estimates those being held are “at the very least in the tens of thousands.”

    A Turkey-based TV station run by Xinjiang exiles said almost 900,000 were detained, citing leaked government documents.

    Adrian Zenz, a researcher at the European School of Culture and Theology, puts the number between several hundreds of thousands and just over 1 million.

    Government bids and recruitment ads studied by Zenz suggest that the camps have cost more than US$100 million since 2016, and construction is ongoing.

    Bekali knew none of this when he visited his parents on March 25. He passed police checkpoints and handed over his decade-old Chinese identity card.

    The next day, five armed policemen showed up at Bekali’s parents’ doorstep and took him away.

    They said there was a warrant for his arrest in Karamay, a frontier oil town where he lived a decade earlier. He couldn’t call his parents or a lawyer, the police added, because his case was “special.”

    Bekali was held in a cell, incommunicado, for a week, and then was driven 800 kilometres (500 miles) to Karamay’s Baijiantan District public security office.

    There, they strapped him into a “tiger chair,” a device that clamped down his wrists and ankles. They also hung him by his wrists against a barred wall, just high enough so he would feel excruciating pressure in his shoulder unless he stood on the balls of his bare feet. They interrogated him about his work with a tourist agency inviting Chinese to apply for Kazakh tourist visas, which they claimed was a way to help Chinese Muslims escape.

    “I haven’t committed any crimes!” Bekali yelled.

    They asked for days what he knew about two dozen prominent ethnic Uygur activists and businessmen in Kazakhstan. Exhausted and aching, Bekali coughed up what he knew about a few names he recognised.

    The police then sent Bekali to a 10 by 10-metre (32 by 32ft) cell in the prison with 17 others, their feet chained to the posts of two large beds. Some wore dark blue uniforms, while others wore orange for political crimes. Bekali was given orange.

    In mid-July, three months after his arrest, Bekali received a visit from Kazakh diplomats. China’s mass detention of ethnic Kazakhs – and even Kazakh citizens – has begun to make waves in the Central Asian country of 18 million.

    Kazakh officials say China detained 10 Kazakh citizens and hundreds of ethnic Kazakh Chinese in Xinjiang over the past year, though they were released in late April following a visit by a Kazakh deputy foreign minister.

    Four months after the visit, Bekali was taken out of his cell and handed a release paper.

    But he was not yet free.

    Bekali was driven from jail to a fenced compound in the northern suburbs of Karamay, where three buildings held more than 1,000 internees receiving political indoctrination, he said.

    He walked in, past a central station that could see over the entire facility, and received a tracksuit. Heavily armed guards watched over the compound from a second level. He joined a cell with 40 internees, he said, including teachers, doctors and students. Men and women were separated.

    Internees would wake up together before dawn, sing the Chinese national anthem, and raise the Chinese flag at 7.30am. They gathered back inside large classrooms to learn “red songs” like Without the Communist Party, there is no New China, and study Chinese language and history.

    They were told that the indigenous sheepherding Central Asian people of Xinjiang were backward and yoked by slavery before they were “liberated” by the Communist Party in the 1950s.

    Before meals of vegetable soup and buns, the inmates would be ordered to chant: “Thank the Party! Thank the Motherland! Thank President Xi!”

    Discipline was strictly enforced and punishment could be harsh. Bekali was kept in a locked room almost around the clock with eight other internees, who shared beds and a wretched toilet.

    Cameras were installed in toilets and even outhouses. Baths were rare, as was washing of hands and feet, which internees were told was equated with Islamic ablution.

    Bekali and other former internees say the worst parts of the indoctrination programme were forced repetition and self-criticism. Although students didn’t understand much of what was taught and the material bordered on the nonsensical to them, they were made to internalise it by repetition in sessions lasting two hours or longer.

    “We will oppose extremism, we will oppose separatism, we will oppose terrorism,” they chanted again and again. Almost every day, the students received guest lecturers from the local police, judiciary and other branches of government warning about the dangers of separatism and extremism.

    In four-hour sessions, instructors lectured about the dangers of Islam and drilled internees with quizzes that they had to answer correctly or be sent to stand near a wall for hours on end.

    “Do you obey Chinese law or sharia?” instructors asked. “Do you understand why religion is dangerous?”

    One by one, internees would stand up before 60 of their classmates to present self-criticisms of their religious history, Bekali said. The detainees would also have to criticise and be criticised by their peers. Those who parroted official lines particularly well or lashed into their fellow internees viciously were awarded points and could be transferred to more comfortable surroundings in other buildings, he said.

    “I was taught the Holy Koran by my father and I learned it because I didn’t know better,” Bekali heard one say.

    “I travelled outside China without knowing that I could be exposed to extremist thoughts abroad,” Bekali recalled another saying. “Now I know.”

    A Uygur woman told AP she was held in a centre in the city of Hotan in 2016. She said she and fellow prisoners repeatedly were forced to apologise for wearing long clothes in Muslim style, praying, teaching the Koran to their children and asking imams to name their children.

    Praying at a mosque on any day other than Friday was a sign of extremism; so was attending Friday prayers outside their village or having Quranic verses or graphics on their phones.

    While instructors watched, those who confessed to such behaviour were told to repeat over and over: “We have done illegal things, but we now know better.”

    Other detainees and a re-education camp instructor tell similar stories.

    In mid-2017, a Uygur former on-air reporter for Xinjiang TV known as Eldost was recruited to teach Chinese history and culture in an indoctrination camp because he spoke excellent Mandarin. He had no choice.

    The re-education system, Eldost said, classified internees into three levels of security and duration of sentences.

    The first group typically consisted of illiterate minority farmers who didn’t commit any ostensible crimes other than not speaking Chinese. The second class was made up of people who were caught at home or on their smartphones with religious content or so-called separatist materials, such as lectures by the jailed Uygur intellectual Ilham Tohti.

    The final group was made up of those who had studied religion abroad and came back, or were seen to be affiliated with foreign elements.

    In the latter cases, internees were often were sentenced to prison terms of 10 to 15 years, Eldost said.

    While he was teaching, Eldost once saw through the window 20 students driven into the courtyard. Two rows of guards waited for them and beat them as soon as they got out of the police van. He later heard that the internees were recent arrivals who had studied religion in the Middle East.

    Violence was not regularly dispensed, but every internee AP spoke to saw at least one incident of rough treatment or beatings.

    Eldost said the instruction was aimed at showing how backward traditional Uygur culture is and how repressive fundamentalist Islam is compared to a progressive Communist Party. The internees’ confessions of their backwardness helped drive the point home.

    “Internees are told to repeat those confessions to the point where, when they are finally freed, they believe that they owe the country a lot, that they could never repay the party,” said Eldost, who escaped from China in August after paying a bribe.

    Eldost said he tried in little ways to help his internees. Tasked with teaching the Three Character Classic, a Confucian standard taught widely in junior schools, he would make up mnemonic devices to help his students – including elderly or illiterate Uygur farmers who barely knew their own language – recite a few lines.

    He also advised students to stop habitually saying “praise God” in Arabic and Uygur because other instructors punished them for it.

    Every time he went to sleep in a room with 80 others, he said, the last thing he would hear was the sound of misery.

    “I heard people crying every night,” he said. “That was the saddest experience in my life.”

    Another former detainee, a Uygur from Hotan in southern Xinjiang, said his newly built centre had just 90 people in two classes in 2015. There, a government instructor claimed said that Uygur women historically did not wear underwear, braided their hair to signal their sexual availability, and had dozens of sexual partners.

    “It made me so angry,” the detainee said. “These kinds of explanations of Uygur women humiliated me. I still remember this story every time I think about this, I feel like a knife cut a hole in my chest.”

    Kayrat Samarkan, a Chinese Kazakh from Astana who was detained while running errands in a northern Xinjiang police station in December, was sent to an internment camp in Karamagay in northern Xinjiang with 5,700 students.

    Those who did not obey, were late to class or got into fights were put for 12 hours in a loose body-suit that was made of iron and limited their movement, he said. Those who still disobeyed would be locked in a tiger chair for 24 hours. As one form of punishment, he said, instructors would press an internee’s head in a tub of ice and water.

    After three months, Samarkan couldn’t take the lessons any more, so he bashed his head against a wall to try to kill himself. He merely fell unconscious.

    “When I woke up, the staff threatened me, saying if I did that again they would extend my sentence to seven years there,” he said.

    After 20 days, Bekali also contemplated suicide. Several days later, because of his intransigence and refusal to speak Mandarin, Bekali was no longer permitted to go into the courtyard. Instead, he was sent to a higher level of management, where he spent 24 hours a day in a room with 8 others.

    A week later, he went to his first stint in solitary confinement. He saw a local judicial official walking into the building on an inspection tour and yelled at the top of his lungs. He thought even his former detention centre, with the abuse he suffered, would be better.

    “Take me in the back and kill me, or send me back to prison,” he shouted. “I can’t be here any more.”

    He was again hauled off to solitary confinement. It lasted 24 hours, ending late in the afternoon on November 24.

    That was when Bekali was released, as suddenly as he was detained eight months earlier.

    A policemen from Baijiantan who had always gone easy on Bekali during interrogation appeared and checked him out of the facility.

    “You were too headstrong, but what the department did was unjust,” he told Bekali as he drove him to his sister’s home in Karamay.

    Bekali was free.

    The next morning, a Saturday, the police opened their immigration office for Bekali to pick up a unique, 14-day Chinese visa. His original had long expired. Bekali left China on December 4.

    Seeking compensation from the Chinese government is out of the question. But Bekali keeps a plastic folder at home of evidence that might prove useful someday: his passport with stamps and visas, travel records and a handwritten Chinese police document dated and imprinted with red-ink seals.

    The document is the closest thing he has to an official acknowledgement that he suffered for eight months. It says he was held on suspicion of endangering national security; the last sentence declares him released without charge.

    At first, Bekali did not want the AP to publish his account for fear that his sister and mother in China would be detained and sent to re-education.

    But on March 10, back in China, the police took his sister, Adila Bekali. A week later, on March 19, his mother Amina Sadik was led away. In early April, Bekali called his father, Ebrayem. He told Bekali to take good care of himself, as if to bid farewell before the inevitable.

    Bekali changed his mind and said he wanted to tell his story, no matter the consequences.

    “Things have already come this far,” he said. “I have nothing left to lose.”



    http://www.scmp.com/news/china/polic...-muslims-until
    I can't imagine any self-respecting Muslim after reading this being ok with what the Chinese are doing to their fellow brothers in Islam.

    I find it necessary to raise concern about these issue because I know that the Islamic Jihadist movements will be the first to take this issue and justify their path. If average Muslim chose to ignore those issues they won't. I known that the failure of Muslim leaders to handle these issues with dignity is a big cause to why young Muslim find men like Baghdadi and Zwahirir more appealing.

  55. #55
    Debut
    Jan 2010
    Runs
    28,612
    Mentioned
    432 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sirris View Post
    It can also be argued that Muslims in other parts of India are to some extent less persecuted than the ones in Kashmir. There is no point in being stubborn.

    Please do read the following article and reconsider your position.
    I've been following this situation for the last 20 years. Give me something more reliable and concrete than statements from unkown persons and I will reconsider my answer. Indian BJP government is a right wing extremist government which has hatred of Muslims. Chinese are communists who dont discriminate against any particular religion but persecute any who oppose them.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  56. #56
    Debut
    Jul 2010
    Runs
    12,762
    Mentioned
    24 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Its strange that one can find the rape and murder of innocents by his co-religionists and countrymen to be boring but get worked up by someone who he has no link to being forced to eat pork.

    Ive seen this same poster telling Pakistanis constantly to not worry about other countries but concentrate on internal issues.

    I guess either he is a rape condoner when it comes to his co religionists (very likely based on posting history) or just likes to stir the pot( again very likely), however ill leave it up to others to judge.

  57. #57
    Debut
    Dec 2012
    Venue
    Indian Ocean
    Runs
    16,201
    Mentioned
    350 Post(s)
    Tagged
    5 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    I know where it is.

    Let me help clarify the diffierence. Chinese are equal in their ill treatment of any sepratists, it has nothing do with religion and we cannot take the words of a couple of people as the truth. Yes they do punish Muslims in this area but in other areas Muslims are flourhising more than any other religious minority, it can be argued Muslims have it easier than anyone else in China.

    India's treatment of Kashmiri's is far worse and you have a ruling power who is anti Muslim in nature, anti Sikh and anti Christiain too but mostly anti Muslims. Muslims ruled India which is eating them up, while this has never been the case in China.
    If we were to stretch your point until the end, perhaps India will get the green light from you if we were in fact more discriminatory. You already claim that India are anti-Sikh and anti-Christian. If we were to scale up the anti-Sikhness and anti-Christianity to match the supposed anti-Muslimness, presto - we're like China and the whining and mewling will stop!

    Or will it?

  58. #58
    Debut
    Dec 2012
    Venue
    Indian Ocean
    Runs
    16,201
    Mentioned
    350 Post(s)
    Tagged
    5 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    I've been following this situation for the last 20 years. Give me something more reliable and concrete than statements from unkown persons and I will reconsider my answer. Indian BJP government is a right wing extremist government which has hatred of Muslims. Chinese are communists who dont discriminate against any particular religion but persecute any who oppose them.
    So you've been following a situation in an unknown part of China for two decades worth while residing 4,800 miles away? Pray tell us what sources of information have you perused, and how it compares to the loud broadcasts from Kashmir? What sort of image did you have of China at the start of this 20 year time period compared to now? How many angry Internet posts have you crafted on the Xinjiang people? How many sermons have you heard on this issue at your local mosque? How many Uyghurs do you know personally compared to the Kashmiris that you no doubt know of?

    Further, you claim everybody else religious in China is discriminated as well - have you ever cared to spare them in any of your thoughts? I thought so.
    Last edited by Varun; 22nd May 2018 at 06:24.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •