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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie View Post
    I don’t see them as Islamic heroes at all... who said I did?
    Just so some of the Hindu members here understand, if you look at the history of Islam, you will discover that only during the lifetime of Muhammad (pbuh) and the era of the four rightly guided caliphs, the Muslim caliphate was run in a truly Islamic fashion. Even then their rule was compromised and challenged by khawarij, and others.. 4 of the three caliphs were assassinated..

    I draw a line in the sand with the four rightly guided and I think most Muslims will agree with me. Actions of all Muslims leaders after them are questionable and debatable in the light of Islam.. they were all politically motivated mostly.. so holding Islam responsible for all their actions is nothing but folly...


    Islam protects the safety of women, children and older citizens of the vanquished. They are NOT to be hurt, raped, murdered or taken in as sex slaves. Nobody is above the laws of Islam not even the PROPHET (PBUH).. when he condlquered Makkah, he pardoned all his enemies and invited them to Islam. There were no rapes or genocide. You can verify this by reading any book on history even those written by non Muslims

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by CricketCartoons View Post
    I am not talking about you. But many do. Do you protest when you see them honored as islamic heroes?
    I don’t protest a lot of things.. does that mean I agree with them or support them? For instance I am not protesting your presence here on a Pakistani forum.. 😃

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie View Post
    The typical argument of the illiterate! Conquests in this world are all based on political interests. ALWAYS! This is not a debate.. it is a FACT!

    You can blame aliens for all I care... it doesn’t change the truth! Hindus can believe whatever they want to believe, but the moment some idiot like this chef spouts such garbage .... and it’s politicised again.. guess who loses? 😎

    I am just saying that now for your benefit, because holding a faith and all it’s folowers responsible for what some rulers did years ago is only detrimental to your national unity when you have millions of followers of that faith in your country!
    Chef may have lost a restaurant. Marriott is being boycotted in India by many. Guess who loses?

    When Indian boycott could make China rethink, then others are small fry.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie View Post
    Just so some of the Hindu members here understand, if you look at the history of Islam, you will discover that only during the lifetime of Muhammad (pbuh) and the era of the four rightly guided caliphs, the Muslim caliphate was run in a truly Islamic fashion. Even then their rule was compromised and challenged by khawarij, and others.. 4 of the three caliphs were assassinated..

    I draw a line in the sand with the four rightly guided and I think most Muslims will agree with me. Actions of all Muslims leaders after them are questionable and debatable in the light of Islam.. they were all politically motivated mostly.. so holding Islam responsible for all their actions is nothing but folly...


    Islam protects the safety of women, children and older citizens of the vanquished. They are NOT to be hurt, raped, murdered or taken in as sex slaves. Nobody is above the laws of Islam not even the PROPHET (PBUH).. when he condlquered Makkah, he pardoned all his enemies and invited them to Islam. There were no rapes or genocide. You can verify this by reading any book on history even those written by non Muslims
    What is the timeline of the 4 rightly guided caliphs?

    Were they assasinated by muslims?

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie View Post
    I don’t see them as Islamic heroes at all... who said I did?
    Come on, who consider them as Islamic heroes?? Babar, Ghazni, Temur etc are all considered as invaders like Ghenghis Khan. They destroyed and plundered our cities. Nobody revers them for the fact that they are "muslims".

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Chef may have lost a restaurant. Marriott is being boycotted in India by many. Guess who loses?

    When Indian boycott could make China rethink, then others are small fry.
    It’s interesting that was the only point you picked on to respond. You are totally missing the bigger point. This is not a dick measuring contest. How do you feel your sentiment about a particular faith augurs for your national unity when millions of Indians are Muslims?

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie View Post
    I don’t protest a lot of things.. does that mean I agree with them or support them? For instance I am not protesting your presence here on a Pakistani forum.. ��
    That is a fair argument, and was a poor counter from me. Because the point is not you, but that many see them as islamic heroes. You may not agree that bin qasim was the first pakistani, but many believe and respect him.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie View Post
    It’s interesting that was the only point you picked on to respond. You are totally missing the bigger point. This is not a dick measuring contest. How do you feel your sentiment about a particular faith augurs for your national unity when millions of Indians are Muslims?
    There can be no national unity if many see the invaders as heroes and are proud of them.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaayal View Post
    Come on, who consider them as Islamic heroes?? Babar, Ghazni, Temur etc are all considered as invaders like Ghenghis Khan. They destroyed and plundered our cities. Nobody revers them for the fact that they are "muslims".
    then why is bin qasim the first pakistani?

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    What is the timeline of the 4 rightly guided caliphs?

    Were they assasinated by muslims?
    Three of the four were.. yes.. corrupt Muslims. The rightly guided cane right after the HOly Prophet and were his companions.. after they died the Islamic republic was subjected to utter chaos due to political factors. The schism between Shias and Sunnis was created after the death of the last of the four rightly guided also called Khulafa Rashidun in Arabic. You guys should read up on them. I think the seeds of destruction were planted then by factors who took religion to an extreme for their own benefit so extremism was actually born at that time and we see some of that thought in practice now with the likes of al qaeda, taliban, ISIS etc.

    I’m fact the current royal family of SA uses Wahhabism similarly to rule over Saudi Arabia. You should keep in mind that Islam promotes democracy and the concept of a republic with an appointed Emir or leader or caliph. Dictatorship, monarchy, king hood etc is all unIslamic.. and that’s what those conquerors were essentially.. they were dictators and warrior kings so their whole basis was unIslamic..

    Just that right there should probably make you realize that blaming Islam for their deeds is completely and utterly misguided and wrong! They simply used Islam as excuse to invade, attack and conquer.

    It’s really not any different how all powerful nations of the time do it.. use some cause to justify their actions..

    It happens even now with US invading Afghanistan and Iraq so supposedly bring democracy to their people and to “protect their own freedom” as if Afghanistan and Iraq were goIng to invade them and enslave the Americans 😂

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by CricketCartoons View Post
    then why is bin qasim the first pakistani?
    You should read up on him first.. why was he sent? What were the reasons.

    But a straight answer to it would be: he brought Islam to the region and since Pakistan was born of the two nation theory, it makes sense to consider him the first Pakistani. It’s just a figure of speech really

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie View Post
    You should read up on him first.. why was he sent? What were the reasons.

    But a straight answer to it would be: he brought Islam to the region and since Pakistan was born of the two nation theory, it makes sense to consider him the first Pakistani. It’s just a figure of speech really
    Great. So this invader is a hero because he brought Islam to Pakistan, but hey we don't consider him a hero. We also name our weapons on the great ghazni and ghauri because again, we dont' consider them a hero.

  13. #93
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    Goes to show the kind of hatred these people are brought up with. Probably heard his parents complain how Islam has been devastating the Hindus before it even existed.

    Reminds of of troodon who once said “Muslim men in India want to marry Hindu women to dilute the hindu-ness of the community.”

    These are not your illiterate Indians but rather successful individuals who have white collar backgrounds. You’d expect a little better from individuals gone through a proper education system.

    Shame.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by CricketCartoons View Post
    Great. So this invader is a hero because he brought Islam to Pakistan, but hey we don't consider him a hero. We also name our weapons on the great ghazni and ghauri because again, we dont' consider them a hero.
    According to Berzin, Umayyad interest in the region occurred because of attacks from Sindh Raja Dahir on ships of Muslims and their imprisonment of Muslim men and women.

    MB Qasim attacked to rescue them. Do you deny that?

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Chef may have lost a restaurant. Marriott is being boycotted in India by many. Guess who loses?

    When Indian boycott could make China rethink, then others are small fry.
    If he harbour this much hate for Islam and muslims, how can he have any good feelings for his fellow countrymen? Never knew we muslims are responsible for terrorizing hinduism for past 2000 years. I felt bad reading his comment eventhough i didn't do anything bad for anyone...

  16. #96
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    When will we see the inception of the term "Muslim guilt", like we have with "white guilt".

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by CricketCartoons View Post
    Great. So this invader is a hero because he brought Islam to Pakistan, but hey we don't consider him a hero. We also name our weapons on the great ghazni and ghauri because again, we dont' consider them a hero.
    Once again you are confusing the point of the debate here. What did actions of a country have to do with the whole faith?
    Can I blame Hinduism for all the injustices of the Indian government?

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie View Post
    According to Berzin, Umayyad interest in the region occurred because of attacks from Sindh Raja Dahir on ships of Muslims and their imprisonment of Muslim men and women.

    MB Qasim attacked to rescue them. Do you deny that?
    Chalo qasim came to rescue some people. What did mahmood of ghazni and mahmood ghori do to get the respect?

    Also why we must respect the great America. It only came to bring democracy to Iraq and Afghanistan.

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie View Post
    Once again you are confusing the point of the debate here. What did actions of a country have to do with the whole faith?
    Can I blame Hinduism for all the injustices of the Indian government?
    I am done with the debate with you. Your were trying to dissociate invaders from the faith, so far so good. But when it came to questioning the invaders, you quickly turned into an apologist. Have a good day.

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by CricketCartoons View Post
    When will we see the inception of the term "Muslim guilt", like we have with "white guilt".
    As long as Muslims continue to suffer in the world such as Kashmiris, Palestinians, Rohingyas, Syrians, Iraqis, etc .. do you honestly think your statement holds any weight.. overall the Muslims currently are the most wronged followers of a faith in the world when you look at sheer numbers..

  21. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by CricketCartoons View Post
    It has become a crime to mention the hindu holocaust.
    Not at all, would be happy to discuss it, my only objection here is that it is a topic which deserves it's own thread rather than distorting this one which is about a British Indian chef getting sacked in Dubai for making some inaccurate comments for which he has since apologised.


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  22. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaayal View Post
    If he harbour this much hate for Islam and muslims, how can he have any good feelings for his fellow countrymen? Never knew we muslims are responsible for terrorizing hinduism for past 2000 years. I felt bad reading his comment eventhough i didn't do anything bad for anyone...
    Of course he should not generalize, but you did another generalization by whitewashing (" no one sees the invaders as heroes").

    If that is so, why are there protests when aurangzeb road is renamed?

  23. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by CricketCartoons View Post
    When will we see the inception of the term "Muslim guilt", like we have with "white guilt".
    See above. Happy to discuss that in an appropriate thread too.


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  24. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie View Post
    As long as Muslims continue to suffer in the world such as Kashmiris, Palestinians, Rohingyas, Syrians, Iraqis, etc .. do you honestly think your statement holds any weight.. overall the Muslims currently are the most wronged followers of a faith in the world when you look at sheer numbers..
    Sometimes it is hard to sympathize when I see apologists linozing muslim invaders, who did the same thing what america is doing to the muslim world now.

  25. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    See above. Happy to discuss that in an appropriate thread too.
    I will call you when I want to discuss Native Brit guilt.

  26. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie View Post
    Stick to just trolling and clowning around.. you are much better at that than debating history.
    That’s why I respect Joshila. He has the courage of conviction and is willing to listen and discuss! ��
    I see. Still silence on the heroic status of ghazni and ghori. Your silence must be out of courage of conviction.

  27. #107
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    People don’t understand the point here.. what Pakistan does.. or Arab/Persian conquerors have done in the past should not reflect on Islam, a faith and its followers.. if people keep equating the actions of countries and certain conquerors to the will of a certain faith, it’s just ridiculous. Surely you should be able to see the folly of your thought.

    Just because in history they are labeled Muslim conquerors does not give you or anybody the right to indict Islam as a religion.

    That’s almost like holding Hinduism responsible for the actions of any Hindu rulers of pre Mughal Indian states.. it doesn’t make sense

  28. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by CricketCartoons View Post
    I see. Still silence on the heroic status of ghazni and ghori. Your silence must be out of courage of conviction.
    So if I admire our missiles and their names, and I do.. I’ll tell you that..how can you let that influence your thoughts of Islam as a religion is what I am asking. It’s a simple point you are not understanding. Do you feel I embody Islam in perfection? If so you are mistaken. I am far from a perfect Muslim. I don’t represent Islam and neither does Pakistan.

    Pakistan represents a people in South Asia who happen to practice Islam as a faith.

    You are trying to make it seem like the other way around
    Last edited by Stewie; 14th June 2018 at 15:43.

  29. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie View Post
    People don’t understand the point here.. what Pakistan does.. or Arab/Persian conquerors have done in the past should not reflect on Islam, a faith and its followers.. if people keep equating the actions of countries and certain conquerors to the will of a certain faith, it’s just ridiculous. Surely you should be able to see the folly of your thought.

    Just because in history they are labeled Muslim conquerors does not give you or anybody the right to indict Islam as a religion.

    That’s almost like holding Hinduism responsible for the actions of any Hindu rulers of pre Mughal Indian states.. it doesn’t make sense
    I understand your point my friend.

    Do not blame Islam for the actions of people who call themselves muslims. But in the meantime we will continue to glorify those very muslims who we want to be dissociated with Islam.

    We get your point.

  30. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie View Post
    So if I admire our missiles and their names, and I do.. I’ll tell you that..how can you let that influence your thoughts of Islam as a religion is what I am asking. It’s a simple point you are not understanding. Do you feel I embody Islam in perfection? If so you are mistaken. I am far from a perfect Muslim. I don’t represent Islam and neither does Pakistan.
    Sorry to break the news to you, I am not discussing Islam.

  31. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Chef may have lost a restaurant. Marriott is being boycotted in India by many. Guess who loses?

    When Indian boycott could make China rethink, then others are small fry.
    The thread is about the chef so we are mainly concerned about how it affects him. If other Hindus want to boycott the Marriott in support of his inaccurate lies about Islam in India, then that is a separate and wider issue. If the colour of money is what should decide right and wrong, then everything can be bought and sold including history.


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  32. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by CricketCartoons View Post
    Of course he should not generalize, but you did another generalization by whitewashing (" no one sees the invaders as heroes").

    If that is so, why are there protests when aurangzeb road is renamed?
    I was talking from an Indian point of view. I don't know and i don't care who is this first Pakistani is. Our history books doesn't glorify these invaders and that's what we Indian muslims follow too.

    Regarding renaming roads, i don't understand the logic behind it. I am not gonna support or protest against it.

  33. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by CricketCartoons View Post
    I understand your point my friend.

    Do not blame Islam for the actions of people who call themselves muslims. But in the meantime we will continue to glorify those very muslims who we want to be dissociated with Islam.

    We get your point.
    “We” can do all we please as long as “we” the people have the power, the justification and the resources to do it.

    “We” will torture others, target women, oppress people of certain color, kill people who follow certain faith, “we” will suppress the rights of certain people within our own borders because they want freedom
    Or rights.. “we” are humans...


    Blaming “our” actions as individuals and nations and rulers on a “book”, a “concept” a “belief” is folly. I can go call my missile Ghazni, ghauri, Hindu killer, whatever I want. You cannot hold my actions responsible for a faith that I might claim to follow because you don’t know if my reasons for taking pride in loving those names have anything to do with my faith. It could be driven by national pride of a multitude of other factors..

  34. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaayal View Post
    I was talking from an Indian point of view. I don't know and i don't care who is this first Pakistani is. Our history books doesn't glorify these invaders and that's what we Indian muslims follow too.

    Regarding renaming roads, i don't understand the logic behind it. I am not gonna support or protest against it.
    So from "No one supports these invaders" you have receded to "I don't support these invaders".

    You were not the point of discussion, sorry.
    Last edited by CricketCartoons; 14th June 2018 at 15:53.

  35. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by CricketCartoons View Post
    Sorry to break the news to you, I am not discussing Islam.
    But you are... don’t you see .. you are discussing Islam if you are on this thread .. what was this chef’s original statement that he ended up apologizing for ?

    You are so lost in the prejudice of your own opinion that you are even forgetting how this all started.. why do t you go back and read the posts of page 1 of this topic? How did it all begin?

    The idiot chef was trying to indict Islam for the invasion of his people. And that’s the point we have been debating.

  36. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie View Post
    But you are... don’t you see .. you are discussing Islam if you are on this thread .. what was this chef’s original statement that he ended up apologizing for ?

    You are so lost in the prejudice of your own opinion that you are even forgetting how this all started.. why do t you go back and read the posts of page 1 of this topic? How did it all begin?

    The idiot chef was trying to indict Islam for the invasion of his people. And that’s the point we have been debating.
    I have already made my comments on the chef. I am representing my opinions, not the chefs.

    Not surprised that it exposed the apologists who become humanitarians when it suits them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie View Post
    But you are... don’t you see .. you are discussing Islam if you are on this thread .. what was this chef’s original statement that he ended up apologizing for ?

    You are so lost in the prejudice of your own opinion that you are even forgetting how this all started.. why do t you go back and read the posts of page 1 of this topic? How did it all begin?

    The idiot chef was trying to indict Islam for the invasion of his people. And that’s the point we have been debating.
    The idiot chef already apologised for the inaccuracy of his remarks so the debate should have finished there. If posters want to discuss the history of Islamic "invasion" of India, that would probably make a good topic in it's own right. Personally I am sticking to the chef/restaurant fallout, thus I have invited cricketjoshila to continue his challenge as to how Hindus will boycott Marriott in response to the sacking of apologetic chef.


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

  38. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by CricketCartoons View Post
    I have already made my comments on the chef. I am representing my opinions, not the chefs.

    Not surprised that it exposed the apologists who become humanitarians when it suits them.
    In that case maybe you should take your opinions elsewhere because that’s not what this tread is about

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie View Post
    In that case maybe you should take your opinions elsewhere because that’s not what this tread is about
    Too late. I have already expressed them, only to see the person who wanted religion to be dissociated from actions of individuals turned out to be an apologist.

    I am an apologist too, so I can see right through one. When dalits complain about brahmanism, I tell them hey don't blame brahmanism, just blame the individuals, and they go back happy, because the major issue was not the oppression, but which bucket to put the identity of their oppressors into.

  40. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaayal View Post
    Come on, who consider them as Islamic heroes?? Babar, Ghazni, Temur etc are all considered as invaders like Ghenghis Khan. They destroyed and plundered our cities. Nobody revers them for the fact that they are "muslims".
    Fun fact about Babar. He completely destroyed and razed Lahore during his Indian expedition when he was the ruler of Kabul and Badakhshan. Bahar Khan lodhi was commanding the fort and after the siege was lifted he ordered killing of every men in the city.
    Thousands of innocent civilians slaughtered, women and children enslaved. I chuckle Everytime I see Pakistanis taking pride in his achievements.


    Tazimi Sirdar

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    Quote Originally Posted by CricketCartoons View Post
    Chalo qasim came to rescue some people. What did mahmood of ghazni and mahmood ghori do to get the respect?

    Also why we must respect the great America. It only came to bring democracy to Iraq and Afghanistan.
    Oh I totally forgot about Mahmud of Ghazna. LMAO that guy literally toasted every being in the lands which comprise parts of modern Pakistan today.
    Punjab faced most of the brunt of these invasions.


    Tazimi Sirdar

  42. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaayal View Post
    Come on, who consider them as Islamic heroes?? Babar, Ghazni, Temur etc are all considered as invaders like Ghenghis Khan. They destroyed and plundered our cities. Nobody revers them for the fact that they are "muslims".
    You dont. But Pakistan names its missiles after them. On this very forum Muhammad Bin Qasim was called a hero.

    Sister keralites have very different history of islam. It came via arab trader. But in rest of India it was conquest. In kerala all the ancient temples are still intact. Isnt it?

  43. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    What is the timeline of the 4 rightly guided caliphs?

    Were they assasinated by muslims?
    @Stewie

    Can i have an answer?

  44. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie View Post
    But you are... don’t you see .. you are discussing Islam if you are on this thread .. what was this chef’s original statement that he ended up apologizing for ?

    You are so lost in the prejudice of your own opinion that you are even forgetting how this all started.. why do t you go back and read the posts of page 1 of this topic? How did it all begin?

    The idiot chef was trying to indict Islam for the invasion of his people. And that’s the point we have been debating.
    You have to understand that people will judge acvording to the actions of the people.

  45. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle_Eye View Post
    You have taken boot licking to next level in your post.
    Sati as a result if Islam? What utter rubbish. Is that why Ranjit Singh's wives committed Sati?

    Stop talking sh1t just because it seems logical in your head.

    Islam in malabar region of south India... has been thriving since the 7th century. You can't go any south than that!!
    Muslims invader failed in the South, I did not claim that Islam didn't spread in South India. Unlike the rest of the subcontinent, South India is the only region where Muslims invaders got what they deserved and the might of the sword failed.

    You can call me a bootlicker if you want, but it is an undeniable fact that Muslims invader have committed inhumane atrocities to spread Islam.

  46. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asim_khan View Post
    The fact he passed that ridiculous old wives tale from Chach Nama story as the legitimate version actually made me

    Always game for a laugh.
    Quote Originally Posted by WhenSultansBowled View Post
    Ignorant fool spreading hate against Muslims

    There is a certain poster here spreading lies and hate against Islam. Just beware, don't believe his lies.

    The man got deep rooted mental issues. Hopefully, he will solve them soon.
    Chach Nama is not just a collection of tales. It is the actual history of Sindh written by Sindhis. These "lies" are uncomfortable facts that we are afraid of and do not want to the world to know.

    The amount of lies and fake narratives that modern Muslims are served about the history of Islam and Muslim conquerers are incredible.

  47. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    Your Hindutva dialogues might have more credence if you were as critical of other empires as you are the Islamic, but your diatribes are saved solely for Islam and Pakistan, the country which you allegedly hail from and who's allegiance you laughably claim. Your unlikely story about Sindh seems like little more than an attempt to excuse the Hindu chef, which is fairly standard diversionary tactic .

    He got sacked, apologised, get over it.
    I am attempting to excuse the chef. He is just a man with a viewpoint, and an ill-informed viewpoint because he Islam did not even exist 2,000 years back. However, he was half right because it is indeed true that Muslims are guilty of numerous war crimes against Hindus.

    The only reason why I posted in this thread because I saw a bunch of people stating that Muslims have never committed any atrocities against Hindus. It is akin to an American stating in a thousand years time that the U.S. never invaded Afghanistan and Iraq.

    The reason why my "diatribes" are saved solely for Islam and Pakistan is because I am a Pakistani Muslim, and I care deeply about the failings of my country and the failings of the people of my religion. I don't see the point of criticizing others for things that we are guilty of ourselves.

    We cannot change our past, but what we can do is acknowledge the crimes that our people committed and be ashamed of them, as I am.

  48. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by akki View Post
    Similar things should be done in india.He apologized and Still looks like no mercy to him .
    That's how countries deal . India damages sometimes itself in the name of democracy. Too much freedom to some people to say anything and get away with.
    One anti islam thing you say in any muslim country ,either you wud die or have to left the country. I really appreciate their laws. Rss or bjp are nothing and like school kids infront of them
    The difference is India is a secular republic and not a theocratic state.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Muslims invader failed in the South, I did not claim that Islam didn't spread in South India. Unlike the rest of the subcontinent, South India is the only region where Muslims invaders got what they deserved and the might of the sword failed.

    You can call me a bootlicker if you want, but it is an undeniable fact that Muslims invader have committed inhumane atrocities to spread Islam.
    What do you mean when you say might of the sword failed in South India?


    Tazimi Sirdar

  50. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Chef may have lost a restaurant. Marriott is being boycotted in India by many. Guess who loses?

    When Indian boycott could make China rethink, then others are small fry.
    By whom? Some few Bhakts spewing Venom online doesn't mean that sensible people will boycott Marriott.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    You dont. But Pakistan names its missiles after them. On this very forum Muhammad Bin Qasim was called a hero.

    Sister keralites have very different history of islam. It came via arab trader. But in rest of India it was conquest. In kerala all the ancient temples are still intact. Isnt it?
    Mughals are not the only ones to demolish and loot temples.Plenty of Hindu Kings also did that. Even your so-called 'proud Hindu' Marathas also had done that.
    https://scroll.in/article/821075/tha...an-restored-it

  52. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by TM Riddle View Post
    What do you mean when you say might of the sword failed in South India?
    South India has historically been geographically inaccessible for foreign invaders. However, Muslims have tried to loot and plunder the region like the rest of India, but they have been largely unsuccessful.

    Tipu Sultan, the Mughals, Malik Kafur, invaders from Hyderabad etc. have tried to conquer the South but were eventually repelled.

  53. #133
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    Temples was the source of money and gold in medieval times and hence they were attacked by kings of all religions. And the life of majority of Indians were miserable under all kinds of kings regardless of their religion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    South India has historically been geographically inaccessible for foreign invaders. However, Muslims have tried to loot and plunder the region like the rest of India, but they have been largely unsuccessful.

    Tipu Sultan, the Mughals, Malik Kafur, invaders from Hyderabad etc. have tried to conquer the South but were eventually repelled.
    Tipu Sultan is a South Indian. He ruled the Kingdom of Mysore, which is basically South India.

  55. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaayal View Post
    Tipu Sultan is a South Indian. He ruled the Kingdom of Mysore, which is basically South India.
    Mamoon has been out of depth in this thread. He has made some pretty lame and ignorant claims such as quoting old lady's tales on Bin Qasim and now this comment on Tipu Sultan. I dont even feel like responding to his ignorance.

  56. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    South India has historically been geographically inaccessible for foreign invaders. However, Muslims have tried to loot and plunder the region like the rest of India, but they have been largely unsuccessful.

    Tipu Sultan, the Mughals, Malik Kafur, invaders from Hyderabad etc. have tried to conquer the South but were eventually repelled.
    It's obvious that you have very little idea about the early medieval and later history of India ,old friend. Here let me be of some help to you.

    You are right when you say that North was the first to face the Islamic incursions in the form of Arabic Invaders first and later Turkic invasions in Punjab and upper Ganga doab while South remained largely unmindful of all these events. There were several reasons behind that:

    Firstly, Early Invaders were mostly raiders who had heard about the riches of Indo Gangetic valley and who didn't want to set up any permanent base in Hindustan. Thus they looted as much as they could and returned back to their homelands in Transoxiana and Khurasan. Prime example is Mahmud of Gahzna, an ambitious commander who between 999-1030 raided India multiple times (keep in mind when I say India here I include whole of the Punjab and KPK).

    Secondly, even though Shahbuddin Gauri had ensured that Turks finally laid foundation of a permanent kingdom in Delhi, the early rulers of wrongly called 'slave dynasty' were wary of taking large expeditions in Hindustan on account of alien conditions, haughty Rajput resistance and the intra noble rivalry.
    The last factor that is the factionalism among nobles as well as continous monhol incursions starting from the time of Iltutmish made sure that the Sultanate remained centred around Delhi and adjoining areas for the years to come even though a powerful Monarch like Balban ruled it in between these years.

    The situation changed with the ascending of throne by Alauddin Khalji and here South India comes into the picture. Alauddin was an ambitious ruler who wasn't content with holding a mere fragment of land around Punjab. He embarked on an expedition to control most of the Hindustani mainland which took him beyond Vindhyas and eventually to the Southern India.

    He first subjugated the powerful kingdom of Deogir in modern Maharashtra and later it's neighbor Warangal ruled by Kakatiyas. Later he ordered Malik Kafur, his favorite slave to raid lands till coromondal coast which he successfully did. Millions of people slaughterd, enslaved and converted (even though Alauddin wasn't big on the religion thing). Barani has written extensively about this quest gleefully describing the killings.
    Except Hoysalas(who ruled area around modern Karnataka) almost whole South was taken under control of Khaljis.
    And after downfall of Khalji empire , new Sultanates in Madurai and later near Krishna Tungbhadra doab which came to be known as Bahamani Sultanate were founded.

    Thus South remained in the Muslim possession for around 200 years before the arrival of Mughals. Bahamani Sultanate got broken into 5 different individual Muslim empires who were later subjugated by Aurangzeb in his famous Deccan campaign.

    Therefore your assessment about South chillaxing while North remained in turmoil is completely baseless since we have seen that Muslim dynasties started springing up in South as early as 13th century .


    Tazimi Sirdar

  57. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dingolfy View Post
    By whom? Some few Bhakts spewing Venom online doesn't mean that sensible people will boycott Marriott.
    I know few corporates who are cancelling their partnerships and shifting to ITC or Taj.

  58. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dingolfy View Post
    Mughals are not the only ones to demolish and loot temples.Plenty of Hindu Kings also did that. Even your so-called 'proud Hindu' Marathas also had done that.
    https://scroll.in/article/821075/tha...an-restored-it
    Scroll.in?
    What next? Wire and Print?

  59. #139
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    it is futile digging up what people have done thousands of years ago and blaming that on the folks whose only crime is to share the same faith. Going by that logic, all Dalits should seek revenge to the Upper Caste folks in Indian for the atrocities met to them.

  60. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Scroll.in?
    What next? Wire and Print?
    Way better than Swarajayamag and OpIndia.com. it is well documented in the History, dear friend. Read any History book about Marathas, you will see that.

  61. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaayal View Post
    Tipu Sultan is a South Indian. He ruled the Kingdom of Mysore, which is basically South India.
    Tipu Sultan was not south Indian.Though there is confusion over his exact descent, but he surely was not south Indian.

    He and his son Tipu were able to temporarily displace the Wodeyar Dynasty in Mysore where Hyder Ali was the commander in Chief. The Wodeyars came back to power post Tipu.

  62. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dingolfy View Post
    Way better than Swarajayamag and OpIndia.com. it is well documented in the History, dear friend. Read any History book about Marathas, you will see that.
    Not it is not well documented but a narrative by a few to justify the acts of temple desecration and destruction by Muslim invaders.

  63. #143
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    Some really "educated" people justifying the killing of the innocent for the "greater good and spiritual pacification". And then we wonder where ISIS gets it's recruits from.

    “The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn. ”
    ― Alvin Toffler


    This has to be universally implemented.

  64. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dingolfy View Post
    it is futile digging up what people have done thousands of years ago and blaming that on the folks whose only crime is to share the same faith. Going by that logic, all Dalits should seek revenge to the Upper Caste folks in Indian for the atrocities met to them.
    Caste system was never based on birth . It was based on occuppation.when invaders invade then first thing they try is to change the course of the history of the natives,change their scriptures,make them uneducated and unaware and all
    .. dalits and all castes are aware of the atrocities .
    And it was our home. Its none of others business how we live in our home and then they come to destroy,kill and loot all the things.
    Its like when there is some fight in family which is still we are assuming ,many hindu texts and libraries like takshila world first university and biggest libraries got burnt for days , and then a 3rd person comes and kill all and then later on claim that they were anyway fighting with in themselves.
    You are talking about bhaarat a land which gave birth to budhism ,jainism or sikhism,hinduism. So everybody has had freedom since ages to follow their paths .
    Last edited by akki; 14th June 2018 at 19:16.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dingolfy View Post
    Mughals are not the only ones to demolish and loot temples.Plenty of Hindu Kings also did that. Even your so-called 'proud Hindu' Marathas also had done that.
    https://scroll.in/article/821075/tha...an-restored-it
    Aurangzeb destroyed the masjid in golconda, so it is fine that hindus demolish masjids. Is that what you are saying?

  66. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dingolfy View Post
    it is futile digging up what people have done thousands of years ago and blaming that on the folks whose only crime is to share the same faith. Going by that logic, all Dalits should seek revenge to the Upper Caste folks in Indian for the atrocities met to them.
    Agree with the first statement. but if those people consider the oppressors and invaders as their icons, it is dangerous for peace and they must be shamed for that.

  67. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by TM Riddle View Post
    It's obvious that you have very little idea about the early medieval and later history of India ,old friend. Here let me be of some help to you.

    You are right when you say that North was the first to face the Islamic incursions in the form of Arabic Invaders first and later Turkic invasions in Punjab and upper Ganga doab while South remained largely unmindful of all these events. There were several reasons behind that:

    Firstly, Early Invaders were mostly raiders who had heard about the riches of Indo Gangetic valley and who didn't want to set up any permanent base in Hindustan. Thus they looted as much as they could and returned back to their homelands in Transoxiana and Khurasan. Prime example is Mahmud of Gahzna, an ambitious commander who between 999-1030 raided India multiple times (keep in mind when I say India here I include whole of the Punjab and KPK).

    Secondly, even though Shahbuddin Gauri had ensured that Turks finally laid foundation of a permanent kingdom in Delhi, the early rulers of wrongly called 'slave dynasty' were wary of taking large expeditions in Hindustan on account of alien conditions, haughty Rajput resistance and the intra noble rivalry.
    The last factor that is the factionalism among nobles as well as continous monhol incursions starting from the time of Iltutmish made sure that the Sultanate remained centred around Delhi and adjoining areas for the years to come even though a powerful Monarch like Balban ruled it in between these years.

    The situation changed with the ascending of throne by Alauddin Khalji and here South India comes into the picture. Alauddin was an ambitious ruler who wasn't content with holding a mere fragment of land around Punjab. He embarked on an expedition to control most of the Hindustani mainland which took him beyond Vindhyas and eventually to the Southern India.

    He first subjugated the powerful kingdom of Deogir in modern Maharashtra and later it's neighbor Warangal ruled by Kakatiyas. Later he ordered Malik Kafur, his favorite slave to raid lands till coromondal coast which he successfully did. Millions of people slaughterd, enslaved and converted (even though Alauddin wasn't big on the religion thing). Barani has written extensively about this quest gleefully describing the killings.
    Except Hoysalas(who ruled area around modern Karnataka) almost whole South was taken under control of Khaljis.
    And after downfall of Khalji empire , new Sultanates in Madurai and later near Krishna Tungbhadra doab which came to be known as Bahamani Sultanate were founded.

    Thus South remained in the Muslim possession for around 200 years before the arrival of Mughals. Bahamani Sultanate got broken into 5 different individual Muslim empires who were later subjugated by Aurangzeb in his famous Deccan campaign.

    Therefore your assessment about South chillaxing while North remained in turmoil is completely baseless since we have seen that Muslim dynasties started springing up in South as early as 13th century .
    In all this you forget that Vijaynagar Empire ruled most of the south post Khilji and it continued well into the late 15th and early 16th century. It was only during mughals post Akbar that south actually came under muslim rule.

    The Bahmani sultanates were in constant conflict with the hindu kings in the south.

  68. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaayal View Post
    If he harbour this much hate for Islam and muslims, how can he have any good feelings for his fellow countrymen? Never knew we muslims are responsible for terrorizing hinduism for past 2000 years. I felt bad reading his comment eventhough i didn't do anything bad for anyone...
    Are you a invader? Why do you as a Indian muslim take offence to this? No one is blaming Indian muslims but the fact that muslim invaders oppressed and killed Hindus destroyed their temples is a fact. That fact has to be accepted.

  69. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    In all this you forget that Vijaynagar Empire ruled most of the south post Khilji and it continued well into the late 15th and early 16th century. It was only during mughals post Akbar that south actually came under muslim rule.

    The Bahmani sultanates were in constant conflict with the hindu kings in the south.
    I deliberately refrained from mentioning Vijayanagar since we were talking about Muslim influence in South. If we include Hindus then apart from Vijayanagar there were Reddis of Telangana, Gajpatis of Odhisa etc who constantly fought amongst each other.
    It's a common misconception that Islamic empires couldn't entrench themselves in the South and that it was North only that largely felt the brunt of the sword.


    Tazimi Sirdar

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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    I know few corporates who are cancelling their partnerships and shifting to ITC or Taj.
    Says more about petty nature of Indian corporates if they feel they have to defend an ignorant chef spewing Hindutva nonsense.


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

  71. #151
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    @Mamoon is factually right that invaders had a different impact in North/West/East compared to South. Muslim invaders never entered Tamil Nadu or Kerala except for maybe 40-50 years here and there. Islam came via sword in North India and via peace (traders, saints, artisans, sailors etc) in South India. That is why all temples in Tamil Nadu are intact and Hindus don't hate Muslims like in some parts of North India. Almost all Tamil and Malayali (Kerala) Muslims speak Tamil/Malayalam and not Urdu.

  72. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by CricketCartoons View Post
    Aurangzeb destroyed the masjid in golconda, so it is fine that hindus demolish masjids. Is that what you are saying?
    Dude ,Aurangazeb lived in medieval times and we live in a secular democracy. Learn the difference at least.And like i said above, Hindu kings like Marathas also destroyed and looted temples.

  73. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Are you a invader? Why do you as a Indian muslim take offence to this? No one is blaming Indian muslims but the fact that muslim invaders oppressed and killed Hindus destroyed their temples is a fact. That fact has to be accepted.
    just like Hindu kings oppressed and looted millions in this country.if Kayal is responsible for what Mughals did, then so are you for what Marathas did to Sringeri.

  74. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    Says more about petty nature of Indian corporates if they feel they have to defend an ignorant chef spewing Hindutva nonsense.
    Compassion is a trait the enemy doesn't share. Compassion makes you weak and the enemy stronger. To survive you have to be worse than the enemy.

  75. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    Says more about petty nature of Indian corporates if they feel they have to defend an ignorant chef spewing Hindutva nonsense.
    Corporations have their own interests in mind. Don't think the Marriot group has any religious beliefs in their manifesto apart from the Almighty dollar and would not have taken such an action if the incident had taken place in a non Islamic country. Same goes for the Indian corporations. They go with the tide which is their prerogative. ABC also nonsensically apologized for a non issue recently (which is connected to this fiasco).

  76. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by akki View Post
    Caste system was never based on birth . It was based on occuppation.when invaders invade then first thing they try is to change the course of the history of the natives,change their scriptures,make them uneducated and unaware and all
    .. dalits and all castes are aware of the atrocities .
    And it was our home. Its none of others business how we live in our home and then they come to destroy,kill and loot all the things.
    Its like when there is some fight in family which is still we are assuming ,many hindu texts and libraries like takshila world first university and biggest libraries got burnt for days , and then a 3rd person comes and kill all and then later on claim that they were anyway fighting with in themselves.
    You are talking about bhaarat a land which gave birth to budhism ,jainism or sikhism,hinduism. So everybody has had freedom since ages to follow their paths .
    Lol. Yes Caste system was brought in by Mughals and Brits.Man, no wonder you guys have netas like Biplab Kumar. At least once in your life, try reading outside Bhakt websites and fake news.

  77. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Are you a invader? Why do you as a Indian muslim take offence to this? No one is blaming Indian muslims but the fact that muslim invaders oppressed and killed Hindus destroyed their temples is a fact. That fact has to be accepted.
    The arguments can be presented, but each side will claim their own version of history to be facts, but unless it can be proven categorically, they remain possibilities. I really didn't want to go down this road of discussing history with a fine toothcomb in a thread about a chef sacked from a hotel, but since everyone is posting 1000 word essays on it, might as well do it here.


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

  78. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    Says more about petty nature of Indian corporates if they feel they have to defend an ignorant chef spewing Hindutva nonsense.
    Islamic invaders and their atrocities isnt hindutva nonsense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadBall View Post
    Corporations have their own interests in mind. Don't think the Marriot group has any religious beliefs in their manifesto apart from the Almighty dollar and would not have taken such an action if the incident had taken place in a non Islamic country. Same goes for the Indian corporations. They go with the tide which is their prerogative. ABC also nonsensically apologized for a non issue recently (which is connected to this fiasco).
    Which is fine as long as everyone will accept that it is the almighty dollar talking, and not some sense of righteousness - as I already pointed out to cricketjoshila ( which he studiously ignored) if that is the yardstick, then right and wrong is for sale anyway, maybe the Saudis will pitch in with a bigger jackpot and that will make Islam the winner again.


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

  80. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Islamic invaders and their atrocities isnt hindutva nonsense.
    The 2000 years of Islamic invasion quite categorically is.


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman


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