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  1. #1
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    Indian Institute of Technology Kanpur invents physics formula for deadly 'reverse swing' in cricket

    The Indian Institute of technology (IIT) Kanpur has finally solved the physics behind once Pakistan’s one-man powerhouse Imran Khan deadly ‘in-dippers’ or reverse swing. The new physics formula for swing, if adopted by the BCCI and Indian Coaches, may help the Indian pace battery to produce Imran Khan like results.

    Professor Sanjay Mittal and his two students Ravi Shakya and Rahul Despande of the Institute’s Aerospace department were conducting a series of research to unravel the mystery behind different swings by pacers on the cfricket pitch.

    After research on run-up, bowling action, technique, delivery etc of different well known swing pacers in the world, the research team connected the swing on the pitch in their laboratory with formula of physics.

    As per the new physics formula they invented for swing, they found that four conditions are required for any pacer to deliver any kind of swing. They are angle of the seam of the ball, speed, rough surface of the ball / pitch and weather conditions.

    During they research they found that there was direct connection between the angle of the seam of the ball and speed to deliver deadly reverse swing. It was easier for medium pacers to generate revisers swing (in-dipper) than fast bowlers due to roughness of the ball and pitch.

    Prof Mittal claimed that it was easier for any pacer (medium or fast) to deliver a reverse swing by applying a simple formula of physics and changing his action at the final delivery of the ball. He claimed that if a pacer delivers the ball by turning the seam 20 degree downward with a pace of 30 to 119 kms/hor speed, he gets the maximum swing, depending upon the weather conditions.

    The Professor and his team claimed that if the ball is bowled at the speecd between 119 and 125 kms/our, the bowler with this formula can get reverse swing in the first trajectory and natural swing in the other, which is often called late swing in cricket. Imran Khan was famous for this kind of reverse swing, which used to be called his deadly in-dippers.

    They also studied the connection between surface / roughness of the ball and swing and found that rough surface of the ball / pitch help medium pacers with speed of 20 and 70 kms to produce natural swing while pacers throwing the ball at the speed 79 to 140 kms/hour and above gets reverse swing if they knew the physics behind producing swings.

    Ball tampering cases are due to this reason when a pacer tries to make the ball surface rough with his nails or using some pointed objects to bring down the thickness of the ball by one mm. This condition of the ball helps pacers generate more swings than the usual ball.

    Swings are better produced in cold conditions than heat. It is due to this reason pacers always prefers playing matches in winters than summers. They came to conclusion after studying the success story of Saurav Ganguly ‘dada’ in wintry conditions of England where bowled medium pace and claimed many wickets. He, however, was not successful back home in Kolkotta and Delhi.

    After inventing the physics formula for swing, the Aerospace department research team plans to do its trial on the pitch with real pacers before offering it to the BCCI and Indian coaches training new generation of pacers for the Indian Cricket team.

    http://www.dnaindia.com/cricket/repo...ricket-2635561


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  2. #2
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    Is there any point in getting reverse swing a lowly speed of 120 kph?

  3. #3
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    It's simple aerodynamics



    We are taught science of "curve ball" in baseball at undergrad level in mechanical engineering.

  4. #4
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    Nothing new there.. I remember when we were in grade school in in lahore in late 80s and early 90s we knew about it, passed down from club cricketers who played with Imran, sarfaraz, etc down to college and school level kids. The angle of the seam, the rotation of the wrist, the rough side exposed... etc etc.. it’s the difference of air friction on the two sides of the ball that causes the dip and deviation.

    They spent money on all that research.. they could have simply asked me! Lol

  5. #5
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    Hahahahahahahahaha,

    They could've just hired any club bowler from across the border, lol what in the............

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahmedwaqas92 View Post
    Hahahahahahahahaha,

    They could've just hired any club bowler from across the border, lol what in the............
    All club bowlers are physicists as well?

  7. #7
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    There may be something good otherwise there won't be that much hype.
    Simple ball dynamics are taught even before entering an IIT.
    But i don't think that a formula has ever been there for cricket ball dynamics.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie View Post
    Nothing new there.. I remember when we were in grade school in in lahore in late 80s and early 90s we knew about it, passed down from club cricketers who played with Imran, sarfaraz, etc down to college and school level kids. The angle of the seam, the rotation of the wrist, the rough side exposed... etc etc.. it’s the difference of air friction on the two sides of the ball that causes the dip and deviation.

    They spent money on all that research.. they could have simply asked me! Lol
    What's the formula?

  9. #9
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    Yeah . Whatever.

  10. #10
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    Yes, as if our dozens of trundlers were not enough, now they want spinners with pace bowling action. 110kph😢

    And they'll be picked for crores, just for bowling that slow.

  11. #11
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    Deadly 🤣🤣🤣

  12. #12
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    Good luck with Reverse swing at 120kph

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeeteshssaxena View Post
    What's the formula?
    Where is the formula for a set piece that yields a goal in football? Where is the formula for a hole in one in golf? Where is the formula for a perfectly timed jump for a slam dunk for men with varying heights?

    My point is: how is a formula going to help actually do it on the pitch? You are going to teach fast bowlers aerodynamics in class and expect them to start bowling like Imran? Seriously?

  14. #14
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    Reverse swing is a finely crafted art.. we used to bowl with tapeballs with tape torn on one side to try and master it before we graduated to hardball and those of us lucky enough to bowl quicker than 70 mph had to rely on balls that were perfectly “doctored” for it.

    You need to be able to bowl at least 85mph to actually be able to do it with a ball with regular wear in tear after 15-20 overs in a match given the pitch conditions.

    Try coming up with a formula for that! Lol

  15. #15
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    Ok, you wanna learn reverse swing?? As @Stewie mentioned in the above post, electric tape a tennis ball and then scrap off one side completely. You can either use your nails or any instrument to get this done.

    Don't worry about your wrist position first (except that it should be behind the ball completely in line with the seam created by the tape), and just let it fly, as fast as you can and as full as you can towards the batsman. Once you get the hang of pitching it up (at pace) and being on target (in line with the stumps) then you can try to experiment with wrist position and (tailling in, outswing etc).

    You need to ideally complete minimum 60-70 overs (It realistically takes much more than that) in tape ball to get the muscle memory on how you will use this skill but once the skill becomes second nature then only graduate to hardball.

    To reverse swing a hardball, a bowler would need to 1) Increase pace at least 10-12k more than what he does with tape ball and you'd need to have proper angled wrist position to make it tail in (even a little bit). This entire procedure (Tape ball -> Practice -> Hardball -> Practice some more) just so that he/she gets the skill set.

    Becoming good, or let alone mastering it is something totally different and requires years and years of practice and execution. This is the process that they hand down from Pak International level > FC Cricket > Departments > Clubs > College/University

    P.S. Sorry boys I know trade secrets are trade secrets but this thread really made me feel bad for the parosies !!

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahmedwaqas92 View Post
    Ok, you wanna learn reverse swing?? As @Stewie mentioned in the above post, electric tape a tennis ball and then scrap off one side completely. You can either use your nails or any instrument to get this done.

    Don't worry about your wrist position first (except that it should be behind the ball completely in line with the seam created by the tape), and just let it fly, as fast as you can and as full as you can towards the batsman. Once you get the hang of pitching it up (at pace) and being on target (in line with the stumps) then you can try to experiment with wrist position and (tailling in, outswing etc).

    You need to ideally complete minimum 60-70 overs (It realistically takes much more than that) in tape ball to get the muscle memory on how you will use this skill but once the skill becomes second nature then only graduate to hardball.

    To reverse swing a hardball, a bowler would need to 1) Increase pace at least 10-12k more than what he does with tape ball and you'd need to have proper angled wrist position to make it tail in (even a little bit). This entire procedure (Tape ball -> Practice -> Hardball -> Practice some more) just so that he/she gets the skill set.

    Becoming good, or let alone mastering it is something totally different and requires years and years of practice and execution. This is the process that they hand down from Pak International level > FC Cricket > Departments > Clubs > College/University

    P.S. Sorry boys I know trade secrets are trade secrets but this thread really made me feel bad for the parosies !!
    Oh come on MAN. Ahmed bro what you done 😌
    Still you never mentioned the last most important bit which is how to go up that🌳.
    🐈 🌳. I grantee you they won’t get it.
    Oh they are well capable of working out the physics side of things BUT the actual physicality of it I have my serious doubts 🤣

  17. #17
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    Who are the best reverse swing bowlers these days? Are we even left with any?

  18. #18
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    Some of you guys are missing the point. This reminds me of the ‘stop on a dime’ experiment. A dime was placed at a certain place on a race track. An expert race car driver was asked to take the car to a certain high speed and then stop exactly on the dime on the track. He tried but wasn’t very accurate. A noob driver was then asked to do the same but he was told beforehand when to jam the brakes. He did that and the car stopped on the dime.

    You guys here are talking about mastering the art through practice, whereas they’re talking about a formula or whatever theory that can make things easier for a bowler. It doesn’t mean anyone with this formula can master reverse swing. But it may make things much more easy. I’m sure it’s not just the high school level logic. The laws of physics obviously remain the same but the final product is likely to be better than the common knowledge you guys are talking about.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by BreadPakoda View Post
    Who are the best reverse swing bowlers these days? Are we even left with any?
    Starcs pretty good

    And Steyn does it well if playing

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slog View Post
    Starcs pretty good

    And Steyn does it well if playing
    I would like to wait and watch Starc after the Sandpapergate.
    Steyn is pretty much on his last legs.

    I've been googling to remember some names...Shami is there, he's good but he hardly plays...Jimmy is good on his day, but he too is on his last legs like Steyn.
    Last edited by BreadPakoda; 11th July 2018 at 08:36.

  21. #21
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    I hope India adopt this whole heatedly and produce many 120kms bowlers who can bowl reverse swing..it would be fun watching them get smashed all over the international circuit!! lol..

    Abhi bhi Khan sahib in ki buri khwaaboan main nazar atay rehtay hain..

  22. #22
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    IIT Kanpur is one of the top rated engineering institution in India. Notable alumni include big names like Narayan Murthy (founder of Infosys) and Rajeev Motwani (brain behind google algorithm). If they claim something, it has to be special.

  23. #23
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    Clearly IIT with its credibility knows what its saying.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Clearly IIT with its credibility knows what its saying.
    Which is fine but universities in the UK did tons of research on that in the 90svwhen the two Ws destroyed England and they couldn’t figure out what the ball was doing. Sure there is no “formula” for it. You can google and see the various theories and techniques for reversing the ball. Some differ widely from the way we Pakistanis do it.

    My point was, the formula sounds dandy in theory but that’s all it is. It will generate higher understanding perhaps but bowling reverse swing requires pace and it’s a finely crafted art that is honed only by doing through practice... the formula might help coached coach it though but that remains to be seen. It’s not like most bowling coaches out there don’t know about it. It’s no longer a secret anymore. It was in the 90s.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    It's simple aerodynamics



    We are taught science of "curve ball" in baseball at undergrad level in mechanical engineering.

    Bro (and I'm not even kidding) sandpaper-gate happened in the week we were being taught about swing/curve in sports in an Aerospace lecture. The tutor asked everyone in the room to explain why the Aussie cricketers were punished. I, being the mad cricket fan I am, shot my hand straight up and started to explain tampering with the ball and how that generated swing. The Aussies (footie fans ) around me were staring at me like I was speaking Latin.

    Proudest moment in uni yet

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie View Post
    Reverse swing is a finely crafted art.. we used to bowl with tapeballs with tape torn on one side to try and master it before we graduated to hardball and those of us lucky enough to bowl quicker than 70 mph had to rely on balls that were perfectly “doctored” for it.

    You need to be able to bowl at least 85mph to actually be able to do it with a ball with regular wear in tear after 15-20 overs in a match given the pitch conditions.

    Try coming up with a formula for that! Lol
    Zaheer reversed with much less than 85 mph and won us a worldcup and also many home series especially the ones against Aussies

  27. #27
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    Perhaps hawk eye ball trajectory prediction system should use this theorem and vet it against the data available with them, to see if it helps them

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by BreadPakoda View Post
    Who are the best reverse swing bowlers these days? Are we even left with any?
    Hassan is a good new entry. In ODIs, he starts reversing as bit around middle overs when the conditions assist.

    However, 2 new ball rules in ODIs have pretty much minimized it. The best I have seen in recent past was by Pak bowlers in CT 17, but that was limited considering ball was only around 20-25 overs old even when the innings were being rapped up.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie View Post
    Where is the formula for a set piece that yields a goal in football? Where is the formula for a hole in one in golf? Where is the formula for a perfectly timed jump for a slam dunk for men with varying heights?

    My point is: how is a formula going to help actually do it on the pitch? You are going to teach fast bowlers aerodynamics in class and expect them to start bowling like Imran? Seriously?
    Oh, come on man i know that practice is required but in above post you claimed that you knew everything about dynamics of reverse swing and that there is nothing new in this research. That's why i asked you the formula for it as the University is trying to obtain it.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeeteshssaxena View Post
    Oh, come on man i know that practice is required but in above post you claimed that you knew everything about dynamics of reverse swing and that there is nothing new in this research. That's why i asked you the formula for it as the University is trying to obtain it.
    I am a mechanical engineer so I understand the science behind it. I don’t need a formula so I can put this in practice. I quote “fter inventing the physics formula for swing, the Aerospace department research team plans to do its trial on the pitch with real pacers before offering it to the BCCI and Indian coaches training new generation of pacers for the Indian Cricket team.



    My point is if training bowlers to do this is the target, why bother because it’s already practiced by most cricket playing nations. You can dig up all the details on it on the internet and videos. If having an actual scientific formula somehow gives you some personal satisfaction, that’s fine but is that the end game here, based on the part I quoted? Why spend all the money on this research? What’s the ROI here? This sounds like a stupid publicity stunt.

    PS.. a properly “doctored” ball will reverse swing even at 120 kph. It’s all about how old the ball is and how it has been taken care of.

    But how often does that happen in real life? That’s why you see them resorting to tampering. They want to achieve it quick. So if you are bowling at 75-85 kph and the ball is only 15 or so overs old, it’s not going to do it much. It has to be over 35-40 overs old.. bit then again it depends on where you are playing. The abrasive ness of the pitch, outfield etc play into the equation. You are more likely to get it in the subcontinent, Australia, SA, etc than England and New Zealand where the outfields are much softer Andrew the pitches are not that hard and abrasive.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie View Post
    Which is fine but universities in the UK did tons of research on that in the 90svwhen the two Ws destroyed England and they couldn’t figure out what the ball was doing. Sure there is no “formula” for it. You can google and see the various theories and techniques for reversing the ball. Some differ widely from the way we Pakistanis do it.

    My point was, the formula sounds dandy in theory but that’s all it is. It will generate higher understanding perhaps but bowling reverse swing requires pace and it’s a finely crafted art that is honed only by doing through practice... the formula might help coached coach it though but that remains to be seen. It’s not like most bowling coaches out there don’t know about it. It’s no longer a secret anymore. It was in the 90s.
    Let's put the hypothesis into practice. You stated that it requires at least certain amount of pace to reverse swing. Perhaps this is true in the existing setup.

    But if some factor which varies from place to place and does contribute to reverse swing, will be unwilling to accept that reverse swing could happen even in lower speed than that threshold?

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itachi View Post
    Let's put the hypothesis into practice. You stated that it requires at least certain amount of pace to reverse swing. Perhaps this is true in the existing setup.

    But if some factor which varies from place to place and does contribute to reverse swing, will be unwilling to accept that reverse swing could happen even in lower speed than that threshold?
    Please read all my posts.. I qualified my statement with a lot of other variables

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by BreadPakoda View Post
    Who are the best reverse swing bowlers these days? Are we even left with any?
    Amir and Junaid vs South Africa in CT17. One of the best spells of reverse-swing I personally have ever seen. Specially when its so rare nowadays

    Best reverse swing bowler is Starc though, hands down

  34. #34
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    The article is very misleading. First of all it was Sarfraz and not Imran who started reversing the ball and when on earth it was only Imran who was the one man army of pakistani pace attack? Indian journalism at its best.


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