India [269/2] beat England [268] by eight wickets in the first ODI to take 1-0 series lead

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Shadab should be compared with Pandya not with a genuine spinner like Kuldeep.

[BlackShadow]

Shadab is special.
But i think he has more potential as a batsman.

Not really, refer post #158

[Sadevdesai]

What is with these non-subcontinent Teams that they cannot play the Spin Bowling ??????

[jeeteshssaxena]

Not really, refer post #158

It's not just about bowling.
Bowling acc to me is his least developed skill, he has age on his side so acc to me he will get better.
But his batting is really good and fielding is as good as it gets.
Good spin all rounders are very rare.

[babajee]

Shadab has played 1 match against England and 5 matches against NZ which are the same team that tamed Indian spinners in India. Not a large enough sample size.

[Mamoon]

Shadab is nowhere near Yadav as a bowler.

[Rahul1]

Pakistan vs India on the same ground:

338/4

158 all out



-------------------------

OK that's enough, can we get back on topic please

Sure.

[Plumb]

There is no comparison between shadab and Kuldeep... the later is way ahead and also totally different style of bowling so not sure why the fuss about comparing them.. just because one is from Ind and other from Pak.
why not Tabrez Shamsi Vs kuldeep?

[Usman Chadda]

Averages 17 in ODIs and 12 in Tests.

Bhuvneshwar Kumar averages some mighty numbers in ODI cricket, but I see Indian fans putting his name in the first choice bowling attack. Going by your logic, this trash ODI bowler shouldn't be anywhere near the team, let alone be first choice

[BlackShadow]

Bhuvneshwar Kumar averages some mighty numbers in ODI cricket, but I see Indian fans putting his name in the first choice bowling attack. Going by your logic, this trash ODI bowler shouldn't be anywhere near the team, let alone be first choice

I get it, Shadab is a decent allrounder. But a nothing bowler, so I hope that the comparisons with Kuldeep stop.

[Mamoon]

Pakistani fans logic:

When it comes to Shadab vs Yadav, it is important to bring Shadab’s superior batting to the discussion.

However, when it comes to Yasir vs Ashwin, it is a crime to talk about Ashwin’s superior batting.

[The_Odd_One]

Pakistan vs India on the same ground:

338/4

158 all out



-------------------------

OK that's enough, can we get back on topic please

The pitch in this game is much slower and drier. A lot of people are assuming that this ground will always yield massive scores which is completely wrong.

[The_Odd_One]

Pakistani fans logic:

When it comes to Shadab vs Yadav, it is important to bring Shadab’s superior batting to the discussion.

However, when it comes to Yasir vs Ashwin, it is a crime to talk about Ashwin’s superior batting.

Mamoon's logic:

When Pakistan restrict England to a low score on a slow pitch, it is a fluke.

When India restrict England to a low score on a slow pitch, they are a top team.

[Usman Chadda]

I get it, Shadab is a decent allrounder. But a nothing bowler, so I hope that the comparisons with Kuldeep stop.

You didn't really answer my query. Why is a trash bowler like Kumar part of India's first choice bowling attack? The poor guy can't even feast on Sri Lanka or West Indies

[The_Odd_One]

I get it, Shadab is a decent allrounder. But a nothing bowler, so I hope that the comparisons with Kuldeep stop.

Kuldeep is a better bowler but Shadab is 4 years younger and a much better batsman and fielder. It is not wrong to say that Shadab will develop into a more complete cricketer with time.

[BlackShadow]

You didn't really answer my query. Why is a trash bowler like Kumar part of India's first choice bowling attack? The poor guy can't even feast on Sri Lanka or West Indies

Kumar's ODI economy rate is less than 5. That's his role in that format. Shami and Bumrah are the wicket takers.

As for Tests, he is a great Test bowler. Anything you didn't know?

[Mamoon]

Mamoon's logic:

When Pakistan restrict England to a low score on a slow pitch, it is a fluke.

When India restrict England to a low score on a slow pitch, they are a top team.

India is a phenomal team that will beat any team in an ODI series right now. Only England have the batting power to outmuscle them, provided that they figure out how to play Yadav.

Pakistan is an average team that will lose to the top teams in an ODI series more often than not. The thrashing in New Zealand wasn’t a anomaly, looks like it wasn’t a big enough reality check for some people.

[LastManstanding]

This is the first time I am seeing age being brought into the equation while comparing their performances. Desperate much.

[The_Odd_One]

India is a phenomal team that will beat any team in an ODI series right now. Only England have the batting power to outmuscle them, provided that they figure out how to play Yadav.

Pakistan is an average team that will lose to the top teams in an ODI series more often than not. The thrashing in New Zealand wasn’t a anomaly, looks like it wasn’t a big enough reality check for some people.

Please justify your stand that CT semi-final was a fluke considering how terrible has English batting been on slower pitches.

[Syed1]

Shadab isn't even the best bowler in Pakistan side... while for India it is Kuldeep or nothing. There is simply no comparison between the bowling standards of both sides.

[UN talkz]

Guys behave your language

[Mamoon]

Please justify your stand that CT semi-final was a fluke considering how terrible has English batting been on slower pitches.

We got lucky because we played England on a used, slow pitch. They would have smashed us at the Oval or Edgbaston.

They were not able to adjust to the slow pitch overnight. However, over the course of a series, they will still beat us. Our spinners are not in the same league as Yadav.

A series vs England in the UAE will probably be similar to the 2015 series, where Pakistan won the first ODI but England smashed us once they got used to the pace.

[Savage]

This is the first time I am seeing age being brought into the equation while comparing their performances. Desperate much.

Age should be completely IRRELEVANT when we are comparing Performance of players.However it is one of the most important aspect when we are talking about potential of a player.

[mkyawar]

Dhawan and his love affair with England continues. Wiley is bread and better

[The_Odd_One]

David Willey is a club level bowler

[mkyawar]

What a pathetic bowler. Where is Tom Curran and Chris Woakes

[Reddy]

Excellent back to back 4 by Dhawan !!

[OneTip-OneHand]

I love it when our friends across the border shift the goal posts when cornered with stats-

Claim - Shadab is better bowler than Kuldeep.

When presented with stats.

Excuses-

1. Shadab is 4 years younger thus has more potential and he will turn into GOAT bowler.(I Remember how UA and Shehzad had potential to be next bradman. I don’t why this obsession with age)
2. Shadab isn’t even our best bowler. Our bowling is miles ahead of India.( Like that was the discussion!!! And what has Hassan Ali and Amir has done in tests)
3. We won CT( and the gloating continues till eternity)

[The_Odd_One]

We got lucky because we played England on a used, slow pitch. They would have smashed us at the Oval or Edgbaston.

They were not able to adjust to the slow pitch overnight. However, over the course of a series, they will still beat us. Our spinners are not in the same league as Yadav.

A series vs England in the UAE will probably be similar to the 2015 series, where Pakistan won the first ODI but England smashed us once they got used to the pace.

Still does not answer how it was a fluke. Knockout games in tournaments do not work like that. You do not get 5 games to adjust. It is all about adjusting to the conditions and performing on the big day.

[babajee]

You've completely forgotten bumrah.
He is one of the best odi pacers.

Bumrah doesn’t win India matches. Just chokes the run flow.

[Reddy]

Excellent 4 by Dhawan !!

[yasir]

Yadav and Rashid are at different level in LOIs(in test Yadav will be lot better with time), We don't have any one at that level ATM...

[Syed1]

Truth be told this England bowling attack is very poor, IDK how they are rated as favourites for WC.

[Dingolfy]

Truth be told this England bowling attack is very poor, IDK how they are rated as favourites for WC.

Their batting is good enough to steamroll most of the bowling attacks.

[mkyawar]

Where is Chris Woakes? A better bowler and batsman than wiley. Where is Tom Curran who I thought is a good LOI bowler

[yasir]

India is the most well rounded team for WC19. England is pretty one dimensional, cannot play spin, their bowlers are mostly bits and pieces, who shattered into pieces most of the time, explosive batting is one dimensional, who will have problem if wickets has little, be swing, reverse or spin...With those thin lines not sure if they can be tagged heavy favorites...Those big wins counts for nothing against good opposition that has plans for them

[Reddy]

Dhawan keeping the run rate up by striking another 4, Rohit Sharma wasting balls as usual.

[Reddy]

Gabbar on Fire Another 4 !!

[Justcrazy]

Poms need over 300 to have a game against India.

[The_Odd_One]

What a great batsman Dhawan is. Extremely underrated.

[jeeteshssaxena]

Bumrah doesn’t win India matches. Just chokes the run flow.

He doesn't take fifers and fourfes but he is the best death over bowler in world. You can watch ind vs nz odi (2017)in which he won us the match by his excellent death over spell.
He regularly takes 2 fors and 3 fors and restricts the run flow. So he deserves his rank.

[dravidthewall]

Dhawan hits 3 boundaries an over

[Reddy]

Third four in the over by Dhawan !!

[BlackShadow]

Scary how good even a depleted Indian side is. Surely the team to beat next WC. :

[babajee]

Scary how good even a depleted Indian side is. Surely the team to beat next WC. :

Depleted? All you are missing is Bumrah.

[BlackShadow]

Depleted? All you are missing is Bumrah.

Bhuvi over the current trundler any day.
Shami over Umesh, easy choice.

[babajee]

Bhuvi over the current trundler any day.
Shami over Umesh, easy choice.

Shami Shami Shami. How many ODIs has the guy played in the last 2 years?

Bhuvi would have received a phainty as well.

[BlackShadow]

Shami Shami Shami. How many ODIs has the guy played in the last 2 years?

Bhuvi would have received a phainty as well.

Bhuvi getting phaintee is rare. He helps create pressure most of the times.

Shami had trouble in the past, but he is all set to return. Skills have never been an issue with him. He is different level compared to Umesh.

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

This indian team need a left arm fast bowler. I have heard about Khaleel and he is also in the A team so hopefully he will be in the team before the world cup.

[Rahul1]

What a great batsman Dhawan is. Extremely underrated.

Yup. Second best ODI batsman in Indian team.

[OneTip-OneHand]

Shami Shami Shami. How many ODIs has the guy played in the last 2 years?

Bhuvi would have received a phainty as well.

Bhuvi is miles better than this Kaul guy. Has the brains and variety to bowl specially in death overs.

[Reddy]

Beautiful six by Rohit, pure timing.

[TM Riddle]

This is the first time I am seeing age being brought into the equation while comparing their performances. Desperate much.

And that too when the other bowler is merely 23 years old. Aise logic ko salam.

[The_Odd_One]

Great 6 by Rohit, extremely pleasant on eyes.

[OneTip-OneHand]

And the bowl gets damaged again . Couldn’t last 10 overs.

[JaDed]

Entire English batting is replica of Rohit Sharma, good when on song ugly to watch otherwise.

[Nikhil_cric]

We saw it in the T20's and now again. This kookaburra ball sometimes can't even last a couple of good hits.

[Sam99]

That damn elegance and then his inconsistency.

[Joseph Gomes]

Best batting lineup in ODI history. Better than Australia of 2000s. @Joseph Gomes

I guess I spoke too soon. They are the best on flat pitches though.

[yasir]

Kuldeep is a better bowler but Shadab is 4 years younger and a much better batsman and fielder. It is not wrong to say that Shadab will develop into a more complete cricketer with time.

I am not sure, if that is guarantee, his action worries me a lot, he may go the route of Afridi, who never really developed in any discipline. Shadab has to really focus on his bowling, to be a top bowler. He could be another Malik, Afridi,Razaq,Hafeez type of allrounders and not the likes of Imran, Wasim, Kallis type of allrounders, the later had one world class skill, other was still fair enough. Question is also what Shadab expects or aspire to achieve? I get a feeling he is not trying to be the best leggy in the world, Rashid is clearly marching towards that goal at same age, Rashid has skillset to do so as well. Leg spin like fast bowling is one of the hardest thing in Cricket, its a full time job, requires lot of work and dedication, cannot happen on the sides...

[cricketindiafan]

This indian team need a left arm fast bowler. I have heard about Khaleel and he is also in the A team so hopefully he will be in the team before the world cup.

Not happening. Kohli is under too much of Dhoni influence. Keeps picking defensive medium pacers at the cost of raw pacers - Mohit Sharmas of Dhoni era now replaced by Kauls and Sharduls while 18-19 year olds bowling 145+ cool their heels.

[BlackShadow]

Dhawan ji gone. :

[Sam99]

Best batting lineup in ODI history. Better than Australia of 2000s. @Joseph Gomes

I would say best top 3. Prime Dhoni would have made this best odi lineup but not now.

[OneTip-OneHand]

That has been the story of Dhawan. A quick fire 30-40 and gifts his wicket.

[MenInG]

If you dont see your post in this thread then assume its been removed. If you continue to post meaningless posts to rile up others be prepared to be banned.

[mp812rediff]

India collapsing now

[The_Odd_One]

The way India is batting, they might finish it in 40 overs.

[Reddy]

Wood bowling at good pace 145 KPH, but Kohli and Rohit wacked two fours.

[Justcrazy]

India collapsing now

64 / 1

How is India collapsing

[Justcrazy]

The way India is batting, they might finish it in 40 overs.

Anything less than 300 was always going to be easy for India specially the kind of bowling England has.

[Sam99]

Really fun to watch kohli and sharma bat together. I doubt there is better and elegant pair in limited overs at the moment.

[Itachi]

this shows the dynamic nature of indian batting. All bastman have different gears.

[Plumb]

such strokes are pleasure to watch

[Nikhil_cric]

And some folks saying this pitch is slow Kuldeep and Chahal made it look slow with the speeds they were bowling at. It is only a fraction slower than the 481 deck played on the other day and just a bt of turn. Still easily a 350-400 deck.

[Titan24]

Its still early to say but India looks like the team to beat in the coming world cup. And we know who can do it much better than others. 😜

[introvert]

Where is Chris Woakes? A better bowler and batsman than wiley. Where is Tom Curran who I thought is a good LOI bowler

Both injured.

[The_Odd_One]

England cannot choke India from here. They need to set more aggressive fielding to have any chance.

[mp812rediff]

India should try to get 268 by 40th over.
Treat it as a game where they are chasing 350.
Try to play risk free 4s rathers than sixes.
It willley be good practice for Indian batters. It will also make England try to set bigger than normal targets and in process make them take more risks for rest of ODIs.
With those risks,possibility arises that the Indians can pick wickets regularly.

[OneTip-OneHand]

A question to you guys. What would you prefer-

A consistent opener with a score of 35-40, odd 70-80 or a century- Dhawan

An inconsistent opener when in flow can destroy any bowling line up. Monstrous scores but can’t rely on him- Rohit

[cricketindiafan]

And some folks saying this pitch is slow Kuldeep and Chahal made it look slow with the speeds they were bowling at. It is only a fraction slower than the 481 deck played on the other day and just a bt of turn. Still easily a 350-400 deck.

Is not an out and out flat road either. Wait for English slinners to bowl their 20 overs.