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  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by pakistan cricket fan View Post
    Malik have to leave odi's then we can have a good team
    True.

    Quote Originally Posted by Usman Chadda View Post
    Way to judge the performance of a team that has played one series against a top 5 nation after a 2.5 month break from international cricket. I guess you are one of those commandos who thinks South Africa with Steyn, Rabada and Ngidi are a crap team since they just got rolled over by Sri Lanka recently

    FYI this same South African team beat up the world number one side a few months back
    Let's not change the topic.

    You said keep winning. Where's our winning streak in ODIs? Yeah that's right, not even a single series win if you take out the current minnows.

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    True.



    Let's not change the topic.

    You said keep winning. Where's our winning streak in ODIs? Yeah that's right, not even a single series win if you take out the current minnows.
    Since Sarfaraz has become captain (Its been over an year now in ODIs) he hasnt lost anything in LOIs (Including tournaments) other than the NZ series. He cant control the opposition he plays, won the T20 tri series by beating Aus and CT 17 by beating India.

  3. #163
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    I don't think so. The Indian team is also struggling with the middle order and unless some harsh calls are taken, it will continue to do so. So it will be a tight game and Pakistan's team looks more settled at the moment.

  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by giri26 View Post
    I don't think so. The Indian team is also struggling with the middle order and unless some harsh calls are taken, it will continue to do so. So it will be a tight game and Pakistan's team looks more settled at the moment.
    India has big advantage with experience in the top 3 which Pakistan lacks big time.

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan24 View Post
    India has big advantage with experience in the top 3 which Pakistan lacks big time.
    Top 3 can fail like they did in the CT finals. The middle order is not strong enough to kick on if that happens. So India is all about Dhawan, Rohit and Kohli. If 2 or 3 of them fail, the batting looks mediocre.

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    I'm not sure if you're referring to thrashing Pak or IND.... Can you clarify ?
    A thrashing of India by Pakistan.

  7. #167
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    What some fans seem to forget is that India smashed Pakistan in the first CT match.

    Yes, it was the final that ultimately matters but if either team can smash each other, let's not get arrogant. There's no big sample set, and India didn't lose 5-0 to NZ either.

    PAK has to beat top teams like NZ before it can make any claims to being tough opposition.

    Also, match-winner Fakhar rode his luck in the CT final and he played some really ungainly strokes in the 200 where he was very lucky to be not out. Similar against Zimbabwe's muzzaak side.

  8. #168
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    All this tedious CT this, CT that chatter.

    This might sound obvious but it's worth remembering that ODIs are not Tests. In Tests, almost always the better team wins. In ODIs, weaker teams will win a match on a good day. A bi-lateral series is usually a good measure of which team is better because every there can't be several flukes in a series.

    IND & PAK have played two ODIs in years. Judging which team is better based on those -- when it's 1-1 -- is lazy because there's not a big enough sample set.

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lefthanded View Post
    What some fans seem to forget is that India smashed Pakistan in the first CT match.

    Yes, it was the final that ultimately matters but if either team can smash each other, let's not get arrogant. There's no big sample set, and India didn't lose 5-0 to NZ either.

    PAK has to beat top teams like NZ before it can make any claims to being tough opposition.

    Also, match-winner Fakhar rode his luck in the CT final and he played some really ungainly strokes in the 200 where he was very lucky to be not out. Similar against Zimbabwe's muzzaak side.
    I'm not taking anything away from Fakhar's innings. And I thank him for ending the LOI careers of Ashwin and Jaddu. But the first match was lost because Wahab Riaz played. I mean that's the explanation you here on this forum and they don't count matches that Wahab Played. Hasan Ali, Shadab, and the entire batting unit weren't a part of playing 11 then?

  10. #170
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    Not really can't predict anything specially when it's versus pakistan who gives their twice best while playing against india.

  11. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lefthanded View Post
    All this tedious CT this, CT that chatter.

    This might sound obvious but it's worth remembering that ODIs are not Tests. In Tests, almost always the better team wins. In ODIs, weaker teams will win a match on a good day. A bi-lateral series is usually a good measure of which team is better because every there can't be several flukes in a series.

    IND & PAK have played two ODIs in years. Judging which team is better based on those -- when it's 1-1 -- is lazy because there's not a big enough sample set.
    Do check result of india when last time they played in nz and also check number of odi series won by india in nz .bottom line is gone are days from last 3 years nz is one the best side at home and very hard to beat.we are not talking about worldcup so pakistan have always done well against india in bilateral and asia cup type matches so beating india is not that much diffcuilt like worldcup for pakistan.

  12. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lefthanded View Post
    What some fans seem to forget is that India smashed Pakistan in the first CT match.

    Yes, it was the final that ultimately matters but if either team can smash each other, let's not get arrogant. There's no big sample set, and India didn't lose 5-0 to NZ either.

    PAK has to beat top teams like NZ before it can make any claims to being tough opposition.

    Also, match-winner Fakhar rode his luck in the CT final and he played some really ungainly strokes in the 200 where he was very lucky to be not out. Similar against Zimbabwe's muzzaak side.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lefthanded View Post
    All this tedious CT this, CT that chatter.

    This might sound obvious but it's worth remembering that ODIs are not Tests. In Tests, almost always the better team wins. In ODIs, weaker teams will win a match on a good day. A bi-lateral series is usually a good measure of which team is better because every there can't be several flukes in a series.

    IND & PAK have played two ODIs in years. Judging which team is better based on those -- when it's 1-1 -- is lazy because there's not a big enough sample set.
    “CT this, CT that” is what happens you when give success to a mediocre team.

  13. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by saeed5646 View Post
    Do check result of india when last time they played in nz and also check number of odi series won by india in nz .bottom line is gone are days from last 3 years nz is one the best side at home and very hard to beat.we are not talking about worldcup so pakistan have always done well against india in bilateral and asia cup type matches so beating india is not that much diffcuilt like worldcup for pakistan.
    In the last 10 years, we have only played one bilateral series vs India. We have been lucky to avoid them in this period because they would have smashed us.

    Even now, they would comfortably beat us in a series.

  14. #174
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    Insha Allah, Amir and Junaid will rip through the Indian top order.
    Shadab & Hasan will clean up the middle order and Faheem will shatter the tail.

    If there was one Indian player who I would have feared it would have been Yuvraj Singh, but thankfully he is not in the side anymore.

  15. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    In the last 10 years, we have only played one bilateral series vs India. We have been lucky to avoid them in this period because they would have smashed us.

    Even now, they would comfortably beat us in a series.
    How do you know India would have smashed Pakistan in a bilateral series. Dont be fooled by India’s success against Pakistan in World Cups, we do have a mental block against them in World Cups but that does not take away the overall record.
    Pakistan has had the worst era in the last decade and yet we did OK in overseas tours overall. India who apparantely has had the best decade still got white washed in England and Australia.
    Now i know you will keep referring to the 5 NZ ODIs which we lost but dont forget the overall record!
    Pakistan would have defeated India in India in tests easily. We had the best spinners and the best players of spin in Misbah and Younis.

  16. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    You are overrating India's ability to play spin. They were troubled by Rashid and Moeen recently in not so spinner friendly conditions. It is one thing to say India will be favorites which they certainly will be but saying you can see only one outcome is a loser mentality. India lost a test to Australia at home. Did you see that outcome beforehand?
    If only our spinners were as good as Rashid and Moeen Ali.

    The opening test loss was surprising but at the same time that wicket brought a new definition to "Rank Turners" - it was such a substandard surface that the team batting first on that pitch was inevitably going to win that match.

    I expect India to beat this Pakistan team comfortably in UAE unless Fakhar Zaman and Shoaib Malik go well because only these two have proven ability to play spin at the top level.

  17. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    In the last 10 years, we have only played one bilateral series vs India. We have been lucky to avoid them in this period because they would have smashed us.

    Even now, they would comfortably beat us in a series.
    that time india was in hot form and oh wait than the fluke happen right?

  18. #178
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    India will lose. Once Kohli/Rohit/Dhawan falls whole team will fold like a deck of cards. Bhuvaneshwar is the most overrated and at times a garbage ODI bowler. Pak plays spin well so Kulddep and Chahal are no issue.

    India has gotten exposed badly in England tour. It was well due but it has shown. Top 3 can't win all matches by themselves.

  19. #179
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    A mediocre team which has beaten in more times then they have beaten us, so I wonder what it makes india.

  20. #180
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    It's been over an year and a specific poster is till in tears.

  21. #181
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    Total Asia Cups:
    Ind - 6
    SL - 5
    Pak - 2
    BD/Afg - 0

    So its high time Pak walk the talk and win an Asia cup. India and SL are well ahead in terms of being better Asian teams

  22. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Gomes View Post
    India will lose. Once Kohli/Rohit/Dhawan falls whole team will fold like a deck of cards. Bhuvaneshwar is the most overrated and at times a garbage ODI bowler. Pak plays spin well so Kulddep and Chahal are no issue.

    India has gotten exposed badly in England tour. It was well due but it has shown. Top 3 can't win all matches by themselves.
    You are overreacting and overrating Pak team. Yes Eng did beat us, but they are no.1 team. Pak dont have such quality and hence got blanked 5-0 in NZ. I expect India to beat Pak in Asia cup comprehensively.

  23. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by gazza619 View Post
    How do you know India would have smashed Pakistan in a bilateral series. Dont be fooled by India’s success against Pakistan in World Cups, we do have a mental block against them in World Cups but that does not take away the overall record.
    Pakistan has had the worst era in the last decade and yet we did OK in overseas tours overall. India who apparantely has had the best decade still got white washed in England and Australia.
    Now i know you will keep referring to the 5 NZ ODIs which we lost but dont forget the overall record!
    Pakistan would have defeated India in India in tests easily. We had the best spinners and the best players of spin in Misbah and Younis.
    Why are you conflating formats? We are talking about ODIs here. In the last decade or so, we have been thrashed home and away multiple times by the top teams, and it is pretty obvious that had we played India in this period, they would have won a lot more games.

    As far as Tests are concerned, I think we would have competed better. The Misbah era Test team was very solid in Asia, but India were still a more rounded team.

  24. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by saeed5646 View Post
    that time india was in hot form and oh wait than the fluke happen right?
    What are you referring to?

  25. #185
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    Can't believe that Pakistani fans have gotten so cocky after smashing a side like Zimbabwe. Pakistan has done well to improve from #8 ranking to #5, but you are still no match against top sides.

  26. #186
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    It will be surprising i India makes the finals, pathetic attitude, pathetic batting team on kohli's selected 11

  27. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    In the last 10 years, we have only played one bilateral series vs India. We have been lucky to avoid them in this period because they would have smashed us.

    Even now, they would comfortably beat us in a series.
    I would have taken your post more seriously if it had any substance. In your own words, India has produced several ATG players in this century while Pakistan has not produced a single player who can find a place in an all time Pakistan XI. Despite having such a strong team, this is the record of both teams against each other since 2000.

    51 ODIs
    Pak = 26, India = 25

  28. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspin View Post
    If only our spinners were as good as Rashid and Moeen Ali.

    The opening test loss was surprising but at the same time that wicket brought a new definition to "Rank Turners" - it was such a substandard surface that the team batting first on that pitch was inevitably going to win that match.

    I expect India to beat this Pakistan team comfortably in UAE unless Fakhar Zaman and Shoaib Malik go well because only these two have proven ability to play spin at the top level.
    Do not make lame excuses. When a team loses by 333 runs at home, they just played poor cricket. What about India folding for 112 runs against SL last year? Any more excuses?

    Yes, hard to be better than Moeen (average 45) and Rashid (averages 31) who were demolished by Scotland of all teams

  29. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    I would have taken your post more seriously if it had any substance. In your own words, India has produced several ATG players in this century while Pakistan has not produced a single player who can find a place in an all time Pakistan XI. Despite having such a strong team, this is the record of both teams against each other since 2000.

    51 ODIs
    Pak = 26, India = 25
    I have explained why this is a misleading stat in an another thread some time back. I will quote my post:

    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    This doesn’t really tell the full story though.

    Firstly, Pakistan’s “worst era” did not start from 2004 - our ODI team uptill 2006-2007 was pretty competitive. In fact, we were ranked number two in ODIs in 2006.

    Indian cricket was certainly on the rise at that point, but they hadn’t really leapfrogged Pakistan until the likes of Inzamam, MoYo, Razzaq, Akhtar, Malik (pre 2008 version) etc. retired/declined.

    India peaked in ODIs during the 2008-2011 period, and we didn’t play them in that period.

    The 2012-2013 season was the perfect time to tour India - their stalwarts were in decline, and the young players had not fully come into their own at that point. England beat them in Tests, and we beat them in ODIs. They got rid of the deadwood after that series and became a top side again, starting with the Champions Trophy.

    Since 2013, there have obviously been no bilateral series. So during Pakistan’s “worst era”, i.e. the 2010 era, the only time we faced them in a bilateral series was when India were in transition.

    Hence, the qualification that India at their best have not been able to make inroads against Pakistan at their worst doesn’t hold true.

    If Pakistan vs India would have played regular bilateral cricket over the last decade or so, there is no doubt that India would have closed the gap in H2H record somewhat.

    From 2007 onwards, apart from maybe 2012, they have been consistently the better team over the last 10 years or so, and we have only played two bilateral series in this period.

    Yes we beat a Dhoni-less India in the 2014 Asia Cup, but one-off wins can happen - however, I highly doubt that we would have been beaten them in a series in that time period. Quite a few would probably have been one sided affairs as well.

  30. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    Do not make lame excuses. When a team loses by 333 runs at home, they just played poor cricket. What about India folding for 112 runs against SL last year? Any more excuses?

    Yes, hard to be better than Moeen (average 45) and Rashid (averages 31) who were demolished by Scotland of all teams
    Yes lets ignore one of the most substandard wickets ever produced - anyone could have won that game, the toss win was crucial as the wicket was deteriorating at an excessive rate and that's fact!

    Australia won because of Steve Smith. If Pakistan were playing on the same wickets against Smith, Lyon and O'Keefe Pakistan would have got whitewashed 4-0. Saying that because they got humiliated against SL last year because they couldn't play the likes of Herath in UAE.

    It seems you've jumped to the conclusion that our spinners in LOIs are better than Rashid and Ali because of averages. But the question is have you factored in the average ODI (+ T20Is) scores in England in comparison to the ones in UAE in the last few years?

    It also seems you haven't taken into account that Rashid is an attacking spinner who goes for runs but is a decent wicket taker (113 from 73 matches) and Moeen Ali is a defensive bowler whose primary role is to restrict the run rate with tight bowling. His economy of 5 is excellent given the abundance of 350+ scores in England. There is no way you can take bowling averages at face value in the current era.

    It seems you have implied Shadab is better than Rashid and Moeen is better than the likes of Nawaz/Imad which couldn't be any further from the truth.

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    People keep referencing ct final and assume the next win is guaranteed on basis of that. It's funny how the result of match between the same teams in league stages is ignored out of equation. In a way it just shows both teams can inflict losses on each other. Not to mention both teams played against nz and sa in a full series after that ct match and result was well again ignored
    Last edited by mp812rediff; 23rd July 2018 at 16:09.

  32. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by mp812rediff View Post
    People keep referencing ct final and assume the next win is guaranteed on basis of that. It's funny how the result of match between the same teams in league stages is ignored out of equation. In a way it just shows both teams can inflict losses on each other. Not to mention both teams played against nz and sa in a full series after that ct match and result was well again ignored
    Which Pakistani fan has said that the next win is guaranteed? Can you point out any such post?

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    I said people assume

  34. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspin View Post
    Yes lets ignore one of the most substandard wickets ever produced - anyone could have won that game, the toss win was crucial as the wicket was deteriorating at an excessive rate and that's fact!

    Australia won because of Steve Smith. If Pakistan were playing on the same wickets against Smith, Lyon and O'Keefe Pakistan would have got whitewashed 4-0. Saying that because they got humiliated against SL last year because they couldn't play the likes of Herath in UAE.

    It seems you've jumped to the conclusion that our spinners in LOIs are better than Rashid and Ali because of averages. But the question is have you factored in the average ODI (+ T20Is) scores in England in comparison to the ones in UAE in the last few years?

    It also seems you haven't taken into account that Rashid is an attacking spinner who goes for runs but is a decent wicket taker (113 from 73 matches) and Moeen Ali is a defensive bowler whose primary role is to restrict the run rate with tight bowling. His economy of 5 is excellent given the abundance of 350+ scores in England. There is no way you can take bowling averages at face value in the current era.

    It seems you have implied Shadab is better than Rashid and Moeen is better than the likes of Nawaz/Imad which couldn't be any further from the truth.
    You are making a lot of assumptions without any evidence. Australia, the visiting team, crossed 250 both times on the same pitch. India even in their first inning managed to score just 105. No matter how bad a pitch is, when you get out on 105 and 107, that's just extremely poor batting and nothing else.

    The reasoning that Pakistan would have lost to the same Australian team and that too a whitewash 4-0 is nonsensical. The same Australian team got whitewashed in the UAE and Sri Lanka and lost a test to Bangladesh. Pakistan lost to SL because it was their first series without Younis and Misbah and they did not play 2nd spinner. Besides, what is this underrating SL? They are no minnow team and Herath is statistically the greatest left handed spinner of all time. They whitewashed Australia and will probably whitewash SA as well. They even won a series in England.

    Imad (economy below 5 overall and a ridiculous 4.5 in England) and Nawaz can do everything that Moeen does with bowling. Rashid may be slightly better than Shadab but when you compare overall bowling strength, Pakistan blows away England in limited overs cricket.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    You are making a lot of assumptions without any evidence. Australia, the visiting team, crossed 250 both times on the same pitch. India even in their first inning managed to score just 105. No matter how bad a pitch is, when you get out on 105 and 107, that's just extremely poor batting and nothing else.

    The reasoning that Pakistan would have lost to the same Australian team and that too a whitewash 4-0 is nonsensical. The same Australian team got whitewashed in the UAE and Sri Lanka and lost a test to Bangladesh. Pakistan lost to SL because it was their first series without Younis and Misbah and they did not play 2nd spinner. Besides, what is this underrating SL? They are no minnow team and Herath is statistically the greatest left handed spinner of all time. They whitewashed Australia and will probably whitewash SA as well. They even won a series in England.

    Imad (economy below 5 overall and a ridiculous 4.5 in England) and Nawaz can do everything that Moeen does with bowling. Rashid may be slightly better than Shadab but when you compare overall bowling strength, Pakistan blows away England in limited overs cricket.
    Smith and Lyon are far better players today than they were in 2014 and our team is much weaker with no YK (and Misbah to an extent).

    The team will be facing Starc, Hazlewood, Cummins and Lyon later this year in UAE and it won't be easy. Australia will miss Steve Smith and Warner, so we may win. If we don't even an optimist like yourself would accept we're minnows in tests right?

  36. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspin View Post
    Smith and Lyon are far better players today than they were in 2014 and our team is much weaker with no YK (and Misbah to an extent).

    The team will be facing Starc, Hazlewood, Cummins and Lyon later this year in UAE and it won't be easy. Australia will miss Steve Smith and Warner, so we may win. If we don't even an optimist like yourself would accept we're minnows in tests right?
    Smith was still world class in 2014. They also had Clarke and Haddin. Johnson was in red hot form before the UAE tour. So, that balances it out.

    Minnows do not win a test in England in early June against a full strength English team. Similarly, losing a couple of series does not make one a minnow team. People with such thinking should stick to watching IPL or other T20 leagues.

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    What is this overall record drama?

    Almost all of the 'overall record' players are old dudes who are from past generations.

    Who cares about overall records when there's players in this side who weren't even born when Pakistan was superior?

    It has zero bearing as it's about skill set, performing day off and handling pressure.

  38. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    Smith was still world class in 2014. They also had Clarke and Haddin. Johnson was in red hot form before the UAE tour. So, that balances it out.

    Minnows do not win a test in England in early June against a full strength English team. Similarly, losing a couple of series does not make one a minnow team. People with such thinking should stick to watching IPL or other T20 leagues.
    Losing against a very low ranked SL side (home whitewash) and Australia (without Smith and Warner) is suffice to say Pakistan are minnows in Tests and the rankings would reflect that. No 2 ways about it.

  39. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspin View Post
    Losing against a very low ranked SL side (home whitewash) and Australia (without Smith and Warner) is suffice to say Pakistan are minnows in Tests and the rankings would reflect that. No 2 ways about it.
    We have lost home series against Srl after how many years? Wont argue on reasons once again. Misbah has never lost a home test a series when he was captain and our ranking went down as we had overseas tours of NZ and Aus.

    Same cycle happens with every team. India's ranking will might go down once the Eng, Aus series are over and SA is already going that way in Srl. We have few home series coming up so we might improve.

    This is a very predictable story every couple of years, there is no such gulf between the teams which was on display in 2000s with Australian domination or the WI one.

    Some guys here make other teams look like all time great, none of the current teams are. SA in SRL is a big example and Ind in upcoming overseas tours will be another example.
    Last edited by Titan24; 23rd July 2018 at 19:52.

  40. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspin View Post
    Losing against a very low ranked SL side (home whitewash) and Australia (without Smith and Warner) is suffice to say Pakistan are minnows in Tests and the rankings would reflect that. No 2 ways about it.
    In 2016 Pak was no 1 so the ranking must be reflecting something then as well. In 6-8 months time according to your theory many teams on the top of the table will be considered minnows and many minnows will be considered powerhouses.

    Mark this post so you will know how good I am at predictions.





    PS: As said in previous post its nothing about knowing future its about knowing the home series and away series cycle in tests.
    Last edited by Titan24; 23rd July 2018 at 20:00.

  41. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    True.



    Let's not change the topic.

    You said keep winning. Where's our winning streak in ODIs? Yeah that's right, not even a single series win if you take out the current minnows.
    What can Malik bring to the table when he has terrible record in England.

  42. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan24 View Post
    We have lost home series against Srl after how many years? Wont argue on reasons once again. Misbah has never lost a home test a series when he was captain and our ranking went down as we had overseas tours of NZ and Aus.

    Same cycle happens with every team. India's ranking will might go down once the Eng, Aus series are over and SA is already going that way in Srl. We have few home series coming up so we might improve.

    This is a very predictable story every couple of years, there is no such gulf between the teams which was on display in 2000s with Australian domination or the WI one.

    Some guys here make other teams look like all time great, none of the current teams are. SA in SRL is a big example and Ind in upcoming overseas tours will be another example.
    No one is saying India's side is Aus of 2000s or WI of 70s and 80s but this doesn't hide the fact that we're 37 ranking points below them - 30% difference equates to a massive gulf between the 2 sides.

  43. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan24 View Post
    In 2016 Pak was no 1 so the ranking must be reflecting something then as well. In 6-8 months time according to your theory many teams on the top of the table will be considered minnows and many minnows will be considered powerhouses.

    Mark this post so you will know how good I am at predictions.





    PS: As said in previous post its nothing about knowing future its about knowing the home series and away series cycle in tests.
    I hope you're right as a fellow Pakistan fan

  44. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspin View Post
    Losing against a very low ranked SL side (home whitewash) and Australia (without Smith and Warner) is suffice to say Pakistan are minnows in Tests and the rankings would reflect that. No 2 ways about it.
    There is no such thing as minnow in tests. You are either minnow or non minnow regardless of the format. Teams do not become minnows so quickly. Even WI is not a minnow team despite being mediocre for over a decade. Afghanistan, on the other hand, is a minnow team. Your understanding of cricket is very poor. Stay happy in your delusions.

  45. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspin View Post
    No one is saying India's side is Aus of 2000s or WI of 70s and 80s but this doesn't hide the fact that we're 37 ranking points below them - 30% difference equates to a massive gulf between the 2 sides.
    Yes and that gulf is at is highest when home series season of one team is just finished and other team's home season is yet to start.

    Gulf will be true once Pak has played its home season and India has played its overseas season.

  46. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    There is no such thing as minnow in tests. You are either minnow or non minnow regardless of the format. Teams do not become minnows so quickly. Even WI is not a minnow team despite being mediocre for over a decade. Afghanistan, on the other hand, is a minnow team. Your understanding of cricket is very poor. Stay happy in your delusions.


    Well at least you live up to your name. The irony is you assessed Rashid's and Moeen's bowling abilities purely on their averages. It was only until you had to be educated about this matter when you realised the former was a better bowler to Shadab.

    I have played cricket at a reasonably high level and watched the game for nearly 20 years, so really I should be the first one to say RIP to your cricketing IQ.

  47. #207
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    What’s with the constant squabbling here? Seriously!

    Most users on this board seem like they are teenagers... Pak vs India crap looks great during a game or tournament .. why do we have to put up with it all the time!!! I mean come on..! They just lost a series to England .. just go easy on them!!! 😃

  48. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspin View Post
    Losing against a very low ranked SL side (home whitewash) and Australia (without Smith and Warner) is suffice to say Pakistan are minnows in Tests and the rankings would reflect that. No 2 ways about it.
    Australia had Smith and Warner when Pakistan played a test series against them. Minnows don’t draw a test series against England in England

  49. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usman Chadda View Post
    Australia had Smith and Warner when Pakistan played a test series against them. Minnows don’t draw a test series against England in England
    No I'm saying if Pakistan went on to lose back to back series in UAE - if they lost against an Australian team without Smith and Warner in a few months time.

  50. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspin View Post
    No I'm saying if Pakistan went on to lose back to back series in UAE - if they lost against an Australian team without Smith and Warner in a few months time.
    Doubt it. Sri Lanka has very good spinners, they just decimated South Africa in their conditions. Australia and New Zealand will both struggle due to lack of spinners

  51. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspin View Post
    [/B]
    Well at least you live up to your name. The irony is you assessed Rashid's and Moeen's bowling abilities purely on their averages. It was only until you had to be educated about this matter when you realised the former was a better bowler to Shadab.

    I have played cricket at a reasonably high level and watched the game for nearly 20 years, so really I should be the first one to say RIP to your cricketing IQ.
    Then you have wasted 20 years of life playing and watching cricket if you think Pakistan is a minnow in test.

  52. #212
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    Look I will be very honest. If somehow India can see off the opening spell of Amir, India will beat Pakistan 9 out of 10 times. Amir may be a mediocre bowler against other teams but he turns into a superman against India. He is the only player I am worried about as an Indian fan. Lets look into Ind-Pak matches since Amir's return:

    1)Asia Cup 2016 - He ripped India's top order and if Pak had a better score to defend, who knows they might have beaten India. Once Amir's spell was over, Kohli was hitting Wahab Riaz like a club bowler.

    2) World T20 2016 - India didn't gave Amir early wickets (only got Rohit out) and India won easily.

    3) Champions Trophy 4th June - Rohit/Dhawan ensured not to give early wicket to Amir. After 10 overs in 1st innings, game was over for Pak.

    4) Champions Trophy Final - All who says that game was over after 1st innings when Pak registered 330 odd was incorrect. If Amir didnt got Rohit, Kohli & Dhawan in 1st spell, India would have chased that target with the batting power they had. Especially the way Pandya thrashing the spinners later.

    So for all Ind-Pak game, the mantra for India should be...just survive 1st 10 overs and game over for Pak. But then again, Rohit still don't know how to play Amir...so that not gonna happen.

  53. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canford Cliffs View Post
    Look I will be very honest. If somehow India can see off the opening spell of Amir, India will beat Pakistan 9 out of 10 times. Amir may be a mediocre bowler against other teams but he turns into a superman against India. He is the only player I am worried about as an Indian fan. Lets look into Ind-Pak matches since Amir's return:

    1)Asia Cup 2016 - He ripped India's top order and if Pak had a better score to defend, who knows they might have beaten India. Once Amir's spell was over, Kohli was hitting Wahab Riaz like a club bowler.

    2) World T20 2016 - India didn't gave Amir early wickets (only got Rohit out) and India won easily.

    3) Champions Trophy 4th June - Rohit/Dhawan ensured not to give early wicket to Amir. After 10 overs in 1st innings, game was over for Pak.

    4) Champions Trophy Final - All who says that game was over after 1st innings when Pak registered 330 odd was incorrect. If Amir didnt got Rohit, Kohli & Dhawan in 1st spell, India would have chased that target with the batting power they had. Especially the way Pandya thrashing the spinners later.

    So for all Ind-Pak game, the mantra for India should be...just survive 1st 10 overs and game over for Pak. But then again, Rohit still don't know how to play Amir...so that not gonna happen.
    Not really. While I agree Amir has been immense against India, the common denominator in those three wins was a certain Wahab Riaz. India needs to find a way to get Pakistan to play Wahab Riaz, so they can dominate our bowling attack. People forget, but Junaid had Dhawan stuck in a rut which forced Kohli to attempt that audacious flick off Amir to get the runs flowing early on

  54. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usman Chadda View Post
    Not really. While I agree Amir has been immense against India, the common denominator in those three wins was a certain Wahab Riaz. India needs to find a way to get Pakistan to play Wahab Riaz, so they can dominate our bowling attack. People forget, but Junaid had Dhawan stuck in a rut which forced Kohli to attempt that audacious flick off Amir to get the runs flowing early on
    Not really brother. You seriously think batsman of Kohli's calibre will play false stroke just bcoz Junaid bowled few dot balls to Dhawan? The chase master kohli is, he knows how to read the situation. The reason Junaid was creating pressure because Amir already got Rohit out 2nd ball and was bowling beautifully. You take Amir out of that game and India chase that target like they did against Pak in Asia cup 2012 in Dhaka. Why Junaid couldnt do anything vs India in CT 13 or WT20 14 or even in Asia cup 14 where though India lost but Rohit was hitting Junaid for fun. Trust me, Amir is your biggest match winner against India.

  55. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khan12 View Post
    Then you have wasted 20 years of life playing and watching cricket if you think Pakistan is a minnow in test.
    No point in debating with someone who thinks Australia with Smith, Warner, and Lyon would whitewash Pakistan in the UAE.

  56. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canford Cliffs View Post
    Not really brother. You seriously think batsman of Kohli's calibre will play false stroke just bcoz Junaid bowled few dot balls to Dhawan? The chase master kohli is, he knows how to read the situation. The reason Junaid was creating pressure because Amir already got Rohit out 2nd ball and was bowling beautifully. You take Amir out of that game and India chase that target like they did against Pak in Asia cup 2012 in Dhaka. Why Junaid couldnt do anything vs India in CT 13 or WT20 14 or even in Asia cup 14 where though India lost but Rohit was hitting Junaid for fun. Trust me, Amir is your biggest match winner against India.
    Hassan, Faheem and Shinwari say hi.

  57. #217
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    well not until India makes some tough calls with the ODI squad. If they play the same team as they did in England, they are not going to win much. Pakistan should beat that side unless the top 3 come to party.

  58. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan24 View Post
    Hassan, Faheem and Shinwari say hi.
    Hassan is not the type of bowler who can trouble rohit, kohli. Amir is the only bowler in ur side who can do that. Others are not good
    enough.

  59. #219
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    Get ready Pakistan, we'll take revenge of our humiliation in England on you. 3 out of 3 wins against you.

    Group match Ind win by 197 runs
    Super 4 match Ind win 10 wickets
    Final Ind win by 213 runs.

    TV sets to be broken. Abhi independence offer mei TV khareedlein, Asia cup ke baad use honge, kyunki tumhare present TVs toh...😢😢😢

  60. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kohli, The King of Chase View Post
    Get ready Pakistan, we'll take revenge of our humiliation in England on you. 3 out of 3 wins against you.

    Group match Ind win by 197 runs
    Super 4 match Ind win 10 wickets
    Final Ind win by 213 runs.

    TV sets to be broken. Abhi independence offer mei TV khareedlein, Asia cup ke baad use honge, kyunki tumhare present TVs toh...������
    At the rate India is going, Pakistan might gift India 3 matches just to make them feel better

  61. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeeteshssaxena View Post
    Hassan is not the type of bowler who can trouble rohit, kohli. Amir is the only bowler in ur side who can do that. Others are not good
    enough.
    It all depends on the conditions... forget about your top three, your entire teams bats like club cricketers when bowl starts to swing and get out twice in two balls (had it not been for dropped catches) not once but twice to whales who wasn’t even England’s first choice..


    Indian batsmen can only compete with our bowling when they get the best of conditions... plain and simple!

  62. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie View Post
    It all depends on the conditions... forget about your top three, your entire teams bats like club cricketers when bowl starts to swing and get out twice in two balls (had it not been for dropped catches) not once but twice to whales who wasn’t even England’s first choice..


    Indian batsmen can only compete with our bowling when they get the best of conditions... plain and simple!
    And the tournament is in UAE.

    Secondly please stop belittling kohli, he is a bonafide ATG. He has proved himself n number of times and will continue to do so.

    Thirdly, even your batting lineup wasn't good enough in newzealand so please stop boasting as if u have pure quality all conditions batsman. Your batting lineup also has many flaws.

  63. #223
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    What reality check? On a given day on these conditions both teams are good enough to beat each other. Its a question of who will win the battle of Indian batsmen vs Pakistani bowlers. Nowadays Pakistani batting is good enough to take on Indian bowling. A lot depends on Ashwin this time around.


    "Nations are born in the hearts of poets, they prosper and die in the hands of politicians."-Iqbal

  64. #224
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    India is not in any position to give anyone a reality check. They are shocked by their own reality.

  65. #225
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    Let’s hope not.

  66. #226
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    India may well win, Pakistan may well lose but Pakistan are a team on the rise, India are a team on the decline.

    Pakistan's main aim, Arthur's main aim and Sarfraz's main aim must be to build the correct combination for the upcoming world up. There is a very good crop of players, all in their early to mid 20s who should be physically primed for summer 2019.

  67. #227
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    People are misguided with Indian team's performance in English condition against Dukes ball Also, ODI team will have "few" change in personal. VK apart, players like RSharma, KL, Dhawan, Raina, Pant, Kartik, Pandeya are totally different beast when they get the chance to hit trough the line on belters. Add to that spin attack of KYadav, Chahal, Ashwin and Jadeja ......

    India's first XI is way ahead in typical Asian ODI wickets.

  68. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    People are misguided with Indian team's performance in English condition against Dukes ball Also, ODI team will have "few" change in personal. VK apart, players like RSharma, KL, Dhawan, Raina, Pant, Kartik, Pandeya are totally different beast when they get the chance to hit trough the line on belters. Add to that spin attack of KYadav, Chahal, Ashwin and Jadeja ......

    India's first XI is way ahead in typical Asian ODI wickets.
    On a serious note, what are Bangladesh's chances?

    Everyone is hell bent on India and Pakistan in final.

    What about Sri Lanka as a dark horse or even Bangladesh?


    And I get so high.. And I just can't feel it....

  69. #229
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    Pakistan will be one of the favorites to win the Cup. What will happen on the day though is just guess work. All teams are capable of beating each other on their day. Its a good competition for Pakistan to try things for the WC as Asia cup hardly hold any significance.

  70. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    People are misguided with Indian team's performance in English condition against Dukes ball Also, ODI team will have "few" change in personal. VK apart, players like RSharma, KL, Dhawan, Raina, Pant, Kartik, Pandeya are totally different beast when they get the chance to hit trough the line on belters. Add to that spin attack of KYadav, Chahal, Ashwin and Jadeja ......

    India's first XI is way ahead in typical Asian ODI wickets.
    Don't see Jadeja or Ashwin coming back to odi team under Kohli, KL has always failed in ODIs hence may not play, dunno about Pant or Kartik

  71. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Bassim View Post
    On a serious note, what are Bangladesh's chances?

    Everyone is hell bent on India and Pakistan in final.

    What about Sri Lanka as a dark horse or even Bangladesh?
    I think, in Asia it's really tough for us to beat IND, because our bowling strength is their by far strong point. We don't have wicket taking spinners - apart from Miraz, rest are basically darter; Indians are best demolishers of spin on such wickets and they are best players of off-spin. India apart, I think it's quite an open race for the other Final spot. They won't carry points from 1st round, hence mathematically even one win in 2nd round can take one team to Finals.

    I think, our per expectation should be to make the 2nd round and don't lose all 3 there. Under per will be to make 2nd round and loose all 3 while disaster will be to miss out the cut in group stage. Making Final isn't out of reach for sure, but if we are to win the tournament over IND, it'll be almost a fluke.

  72. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adijazz1706 View Post
    Don't see Jadeja or Ashwin coming back to odi team under Kohli, KL has always failed in ODIs hence may not play, dunno about Pant or Kartik
    It's not about Ash or Jadeja - it's about playing 2 specialist spinners. If not them, still IND will play couple of genuine spinners, who'll trouble teams in UAE. At present, I don't think they are needed either - Kuldeep & Chahal are doing nice job, add to that the young Offie from Nidahas trophy, there is enough spin resources.

    If KL doesn't play , it hardly matters. Actually, I take it with more caution that they are replacing KL (yes, I know about his phenomenal Asian average) with a better batsman on such wickets!!!! If KL is dropped, they might pick Pant or even Myank Agarwal - nothing much to cheer about here.

    I think IND best XI is

    Sharma, Dhawan
    Kohli, KL/Rahne, Raina/Pant, MS
    Pandeya
    2 of BK, Bumrah, Shami & UYadav, Kuldeep, Chahal

    If this squad plays, no reason why smart money won't be on IND.

  73. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adijazz1706 View Post
    Don't see Jadeja or Ashwin coming back to odi team under Kohli, KL has always failed in ODIs hence may not play, dunno about Pant or Kartik
    Kuldeep and Chahal are better than these two in LOIs.

  74. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kohli, The King of Chase View Post
    Get ready Pakistan, we'll take revenge of our humiliation in England on you. 3 out of 3 wins against you.

    Group match Ind win by 197 runs
    Super 4 match Ind win 10 wickets
    Final Ind win by 213 runs.

    TV sets to be broken. Abhi independence offer mei TV khareedlein, Asia cup ke baad use honge, kyunki tumhare present TVs toh...������
    Hahaha funny guy more humiliation to come your way. India will lose agaisnt the team that qualifies for the tournament as well...so their wont be 3 games even if they make it to the next round india will lose all three encounters to Pakistan....because guess what Indians cant bowl hahahah and you need bowlers to win my friend.

  75. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    People are misguided with Indian team's performance in English condition against Dukes ball Also, ODI team will have "few" change in personal. VK apart, players like RSharma, KL, Dhawan, Raina, Pant, Kartik, Pandeya are totally different beast when they get the chance to hit trough the line on belters. Add to that spin attack of KYadav, Chahal, Ashwin and Jadeja ......

    India's first XI is way ahead in typical Asian ODI wickets.
    Really?
    What is average score in UAE? I personally hate cricket in UAE and I have not seen many high scoring games there. A few games I remember which I got to see had the balls not coming on to the bat. The balls can stay low as well so how would all these Indian greats play thru the line in this condition?

    I will believe it when I see it. The bowlers like Rumman, Imad, Hassan, and etc, who use their head pretty well in such conditions, won't be easy to face.


    Best of The Best : Tendulkar - Wasim - Gilchrist

  76. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by CricVet View Post
    Really?
    What is average score in UAE? I personally hate cricket in UAE and I have not seen many high scoring games there. A few games I remember which I got to see had the balls not coming on to the bat. The balls can stay low as well so how would all these Indian greats play thru the line in this condition?

    I will believe it when I see it. The bowlers like Rumman, Imad, Hassan, and etc, who use their head pretty well in such conditions, won't be easy to face.
    Ek mahine ke hi to baat bhai, thora saboor kar ligiye - main jotish thori hun!!!!

    If Indian batsmen can plant their front foot against balls below thigh line - they are a treat to watch for their bat swing, timing, placement and wristy flicks. I have seen the trend changing in UAE wickets in recent times - ENG hammered PAK attack last time for couple of 350 sort of totals, before that Kiwis posted ~300 twice and PAK 350+ once against NZ. It might be a bit dry (& slow) in September heat, which I am afraid would be more detrimental for Fakhar than Rohit - have you seen FZ batting, when ball is not coming on to his bat?

  77. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    Ek mahine ke hi to baat bhai, thora saboor kar ligiye - main jotish thori hun!!!!

    If Indian batsmen can plant their front foot against balls below thigh line - they are a treat to watch for their bat swing, timing, placement and wristy flicks. I have seen the trend changing in UAE wickets in recent times - ENG hammered PAK attack last time for couple of 350 sort of totals, before that Kiwis posted ~300 twice and PAK 350+ once against NZ. It might be a bit dry (& slow) in September heat, which I am afraid would be more detrimental for Fakhar than Rohit - have you seen FZ batting, when ball is not coming on to his bat?
    England and NZ did that vs Anwar, Wahab + Tanvir.

  78. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    Ek mahine ke hi to baat bhai, thora saboor kar ligiye - main jotish thori hun!!!!

    If Indian batsmen can plant their front foot against balls below thigh line - they are a treat to watch for their bat swing, timing, placement and wristy flicks. I have seen the trend changing in UAE wickets in recent times - ENG hammered PAK attack last time for couple of 350 sort of totals, before that Kiwis posted ~300 twice and PAK 350+ once against NZ. It might be a bit dry (& slow) in September heat, which I am afraid would be more detrimental for Fakhar than Rohit - have you seen FZ batting, when ball is not coming on to his bat?
    I know you are not a jotishi otherwise you would not have unreal expectations from BD and viceversa for Pak. I remember your prognostications ;)

    It is good that you mentioned yourseld about hot and dry weather after you mentioned the high scores. This tournament is not being played for the comfort of light skin - I know it sounds biased. These guys are gonna be baking in the heat of September along with the pitch. I doubt games would have 300+ scores - most likely score would be 250-270 the highest. Let see.


    Best of The Best : Tendulkar - Wasim - Gilchrist

  79. #239
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    So with Kohli being rested, what do you guys think? Is it a 'B' team or not?

    I do expect a few niggles before the Eng tour concludes and so one or two of the selected Asia cup squad being replaced.

    Not being arrogant. Just pragmatic.


    Win or lose - it is Team INDIA I choose...

  80. #240
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    We are the favourites against Indian . That middle order is there for the taking.


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