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View Poll Results: Is James Anderson an ATG?

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  • Yes

    26 65.00%
  • No

    14 35.00%
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  1. #1
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    Is Jimmy Anderson an all-time great?

    For me he is

    Avg 26 with the ball and having almost 550 wickts is legendary in this FTbullys era.


    I am going to name my son "Intikhab Alam" so that he will never lose his job.

  2. #2
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    Is this even a question??🙅

  3. #3
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    If he isn't after 500 wickets at avg of 26 then who is?

  4. #4
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    He is the Cook of Bowling, surprisingly same team ATG ENGLAND but overall will always be in doubt due to his performances in unsupporting conditions.

    Defn the best European bowler ever.

  5. #5
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    Nah, he's a home bully. Borderline ATG. What are his away stats again?

  6. #6
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    He is an ATG. Always gives his 100%.

    Definition of a match winner. Champion bowler.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Gomes View Post
    Nah, he's a home bully. Borderline ATG. What are his away stats again?
    When others perform well at home, they are home bullies, but somehow the standard reverse when others teams preform well everywhere, Indians just say “let’s see how you do in India”.. does that mean their whole team is a home bully?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie View Post
    When others perform well at home, they are home bullies, but somehow the standard reverse when others teams preform well everywhere, Indians just say “let’s see how you do in India”.. does that mean their whole team is a home bully?
    Indians are the biggest home bully. Their whole have been bunny to England this decade.

  9. #9
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    Wouldn't have said so a few years ago, but in the last 5 or so seasons the longevity variable has made its entry and now I wholeheartedly agree - he deserves to be up there with McGrath and Steyn from this era.

  10. #10
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    Not in my eyes.

    But he does have the distinction of being the tormentor-in-chief of the two best Indian bats of the last 15 years.

  11. #11
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    Undoubtedly so. The ignorants can keep calling him a home bully, but he is going to end up with more wickets than any pacer in history has dreamed of taking, and has dominated some of the greatest batsmen in history.

    One of the skillful bowlers in history who has simply gotten smarter and better with age. Once in many, many generations cricketer whose complete mastery of swing bowling will never be forgotten.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kohli, The King of Chase View Post
    Is this even a question??🙅
    This. Of course he is ATG.

  13. #13
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    He definitely is.

    But not in the same bracket as Steyn, McGrath etc.

    The likes of Anderson and Broad completely vanished in India last year. In fact, they mysteriously get injured when they get phainty the previous test.

    The likes of Steyn terrorized India even on spin friendly pitches. So Steyn > Anderson.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by troodon View Post
    He definitely is.

    But not in the same bracket as Steyn, McGrath etc.

    The likes of Anderson and Broad completely vanished in India last year. In fact, they mysteriously get injured when they get phainty the previous test.

    The likes of Steyn terrorized India even on spin friendly pitches. So Steyn > Anderson.
    Steyn’s 7-51 in Nagpur on a dead track is the best spell in Asia by a fast bowler in the last decade.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManFan View Post
    Steyn’s 7-51 in Nagpur on a dead track is the best spell in Asia by a fast bowler in the last decade.
    That is why I rate Steyn over Anderson any day.

    But in English conditions, Anderson is on par with the greatest bowlers.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Undoubtedly so. The ignorants can keep calling him a home bully, but he is going to end up with more wickets than any pacer in history has dreamed of taking, and has dominated some of the greatest batsmen in history.

    One of the skillful bowlers in history who has simply gotten smarter and better with age. Once in many, many generations cricketer whose complete mastery of swing bowling will never be forgotten.
    He looks great against all teams against the two strongest he has faced , Aus and SA.

    I don't remember how many times these teams have humbled him , even in England.

    It depends on everyone's definition of ATG, he hasn't been a threat worldwide for a considerable period of time to be counted as an ATG for me. McGrath, Marshall, Akram, Imran, Steyn, Ambrose etc are ATGs.

    But he is a super bowler nonetheless. Among the bowlers averaging 25+ , he may very well be the best .

  17. #17
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    Yeah, let’s go for it and call it.

    ATG.

  18. #18
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    Anil Kumble has 619 test wickets. Is he an ATG?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Undoubtedly so. The ignorants can keep calling him a home bully, but he is going to end up with more wickets than any pacer in history has dreamed of taking, and has dominated some of the greatest batsmen in history.

    One of the skillful bowlers in history who has simply gotten smarter and better with age. Once in many, many generations cricketer whose complete mastery of swing bowling will never be forgotten.
    You have called this to perhaps 4-5 cricketers from last 15 years only. How can all of them be once in many, many generation when they all debuted post 2000s only?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaDed View Post
    He is the Cook of Bowling, surprisingly same team ATG ENGLAND but overall will always be in doubt due to his performances in unsupporting conditions.

    Defn the best European bowler ever.
    Cook won't be leading run-scorer but Anderson is about to become leading wicket-taker.

  21. #21
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    Not at the level of Steyn, McGrath or Wasim, but still a great of the game. Nobody can replicate what he can do with the ball, and his away record has gotten considerably better in the last 5 years.


    Does cricket survive off of it's money or does it survive for it's money?

  22. #22
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    Anderson is an ATG IMO as well. Dont get fooled by away stats. It is harder to maintain these numbers given the number of matches England play per year.

    Over 4-5 tests, you are bound to lose it somewhere, more so for a fast bowler.

  23. #23
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    In England. A Dukes ball bully through and through.


    A skilled hawk conceals its talons.

  24. #24
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    I heard commie saying that Anderson has 99 wickets at the Lords Ground

    May be 100 wickets after that Ishant wicket.

    Not sure if any other bowler has so many wickets at one ground.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by troodon View Post
    I heard commie saying that Anderson has 99 wickets at the Lords Ground

    May be 100 wickets after that Ishant wicket.

    Not sure if any other bowler has so many wickets at one ground.
    Murali has over 100 at Kandy and SSC and 90-ish at Galle, Rangana Herath also has 99 at Galle.


    Does cricket survive off of it's money or does it survive for it's money?

  26. #26
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    Said it before as well. Only thing is I thought he would become more of a containing bowler now that he is getting older, yet here he is haha.

    What an artist with the ball.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Destroyer View Post
    In England. A Dukes ball bully through and through.
    Who has been able to replicate his performances in England with the Dukes? Nobody has mastered swing bowling the way he has, and for that reason he is a an ATG, but as I said earlier, not at Steyn or McGrath's level.


    Does cricket survive off of it's money or does it survive for it's money?

  28. #28
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    Best conventional swing bowler in his generation. Up there with wasim when it comes to purely conventional swing bowling skills. ATG for me.

  29. #29
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    Meanwhile Steyn bowling in English T20 leagues.

    Still good figures in the last couple of matches though.

  30. #30
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    Decent bowler but I'm glad to have seen better and more skilful fast bowlers over the years, even if the only played for half as many years as Anderson and took less than half his wickets tally.

    Quality ahead of quantity for me any day.

    A simple question - for anyone who has watched test cricket since 80s era, if let's say you had to list the Top 50 most memorable and destructive spells of fast bowling you have seen in last 30 years or so, would any spell from James Anderson make the top 10/20/30/40 or 50 even?

  31. #31
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    I don't know man.

    Name:  DkPNpcVU8AAF7BG.jpg
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    3WCs, #1 Test #1 ODI team, Fab 9: Sachin, Dravid, Saurav, Kumble, VVS, Viru, Zak, MSD, Yuvi

  32. #32
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    It's a no brainer really, those who disagree probably are extremely bitter and insecure


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhaag Viru Bhaag View Post
    Anil Kumble has 619 test wickets. Is he an ATG?
    Easily one of the greatest and most versatile leg spinners of all time so yeah he is an ATG


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketworm View Post
    I don't know man.

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    Hilarious.


    A skilled hawk conceals its talons.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Destroyer View Post
    Hilarious.
    It's ignorance, clouds do not cause swing most uneducated simple minded fellas who don't understand fluid mechanics believe they know more then experts can understand an Indian lacking knowledge on fast bowling but a Pakistani to you should change your display pic from the chucker to Ishant Sharma


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  36. #36
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    Most of these Indian fans being bitter about Anderson are pure haters, they are going on like it's a piece of cake to get the new ball to deviate like Anderson; if it were so simple many would have to just run in with that new cherry and expect to take wickets. Instead, Anderson is on the brink of becoming the leading wicket taker amongst pace bowlers and his legacy has been cemented already as one of the all time greats.


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  37. #37
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    He is probably on the list of the top 5 "all time greats".

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaDed View Post
    He is the Cook of Bowling, surprisingly same team ATG ENGLAND but overall will always be in doubt due to his performances in unsupporting conditions.

    Defn the best European bowler ever.
    I can think of a couple better that I have seen play, let alone ever.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    I can think of a couple better that I have seen play, let alone ever.
    How many are so good to watch in full flow though? There was no batsman in the world that would have survived that spell today. Mesmerizing.

  40. #40
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    At this rate, the whole Indian team will be labelled as being Anderson's bunnies, not just Kohli. His ball to get Vijay out was one of the best balls I've seen in a while.

  41. #41
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    For all those blaberrinng on this thread.
    There is a simple criteria for an atg i. e
    performance in overseas matches, no amount of home track bullying can compensate for it.
    People raise questions on dravids low avg in srl, sa while the same hypocrites neglect Anderson's performance in any place except England.
    Amount of wickets can't make up for lack of skill so no anderson isn't an atg, not even borderline.
    Last edited by Abdullah719; 11th August 2018 at 12:47.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeeteshssaxena View Post
    For all those blaberrinng on this thread.
    There is a simple criteria for an atg i. e
    performance in overseas matches, no amount of home track bullying can compensate for it.
    People raise questions on dravids low avg in srl, sa while the same hypocrites neglect Anderson's performance in any place except England.
    Amount of wickets can't make up for lack of skill so no anderson isn't an atg, not even borderline.
    Any place?

    How do you explain his fine performances under blazing sun in UAE and West Indies?
    Last edited by Abdullah719; 11th August 2018 at 12:47.

  43. #43
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    Yeah love Jimmy...top bowler. Sad that he retired from LOIs though. Would love to see him in WC

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Any place?

    How do you explain his fine performances under blazing sun in UAE and West Indies?
    Yes he has been fine in uae, windies has been a bad team for some time and it's only recently that they have started improving, so stats in windies don't say a lot.
    In fact stuart broad has been a better tourist than him.
    Even if we excuse him for all his bad performances in other nations, he still avgs 27 and atgs are below 25 avg bowlers.
    I read in one of the threads that here that if we leave england and india aside zaheer and anderson avg the same (zaheers avg was still slightly better). With so many holes in his CV he can't be an ATG.

  45. #45
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    Yes.He is an ATG.

  46. #46
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    Don't know whether an ATG or not, but I guess any team would definitely want to have him in their team when they are playing on seaming tracks.

    His bowling is like poetry, subtle, skillful and beautiful. But sadly the lack of pace costs him on dead tracks.

  47. #47
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    Great bowler absolutely but for me not in the league of McGrath but then who exactly could be put in the league of McGrath, don't think even Steyn or Ambrose could be compared to Mcgrath.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canford Cliffs View Post
    Yeah love Jimmy...top bowler. Sad that he retired from LOIs though. Would love to see him in WC
    Has he retired from ODIs? I thot England wud have him in the squad considering fast bowling is a weak link in their ODI squad

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by happydavy View Post
    Has he retired from ODIs? I thot England wud have him in the squad considering fast bowling is a weak link in their ODI squad
    Didn't retire but England ignored & moved on from Anderson & broad after 2015 worldcup disaster.
    Anderson just can't bowl at death otherwise he is fine new ball bowler. Since England already have options for new ball bowlers like woakes,willey & now sam Curran there is no point of looking back.

  50. #50
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    He is the greatest English test bowler of all time, only Trueman has a shout and I never saw him play. However, a true all time great cricketer must be great across formats, which Jimmy is not. I understand this is likely a test cricket discussion and on that, yes, he is a test great.

  51. #51
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    Not an ATG for me but I think on this forum he is really underrated.

  52. #52
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    New Delhi: England fast bowler James Anderson became only the second bowler in the history of Tests to take 100 wickets at a single venue after Sri Lanka’s Muttiah Muralitharan, on Sunday.

    During the course of India's second innings at Lord's, opener Murali Vijay became Anderson's 100th victim at the venue. Muralitharan had achieved this feat at three different venues during his career.

    Apart from that Anderson became the first bowler to take 100 wickets at Lord's and is way ahead of compatriot Stuart Broad in the list. Broad has 79 wickets as of now in his kitty at Home of Cricket.

    Anderson’s string of records do not end here. He also became the fifth player ever to take 550 wickets in the longest format of the game and joined the likes of Muralitharan, Shane Warne, Anil Kumble and Glenn McGrath in this list.

    https://www.news18.com/cricketnext/n...s-1842017.html

  53. #53
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    Yes he is an ATG.

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    Off course he is. One of the best swing bowlers off all time the man is class. Not sure why he has not performed as well in one day's.


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

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    No question

    Ignoramuses can take a hike

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    Poll added. I would say that he is. People can bring up the fact he is a HTB but regardless of that, taking as many wickets as he has is not easy, I would say he will end his career as an ATG.

  57. #57
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    my favorite cricketer of this generation along with steyn

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeeteshssaxena View Post
    In fact stuart broad has been a better tourist than him.
    Actually that isn’t the case overall, if you look at the figures.

  60. #60
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    Great bowler.ATG but a low level ATG,not a top tier ATG.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by giri26 View Post

    So likes of Botham, 2Ws, Holding, Steyn etc. rate him but for some PPers he is nothing

  62. #62
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    Do people consider Chanderpaul, Dravid, Inzamam, Jayawardene ATGs???? Despite them having 50+ averages, they are still not ATGs. Jimmy Anderson belongs in that category when it comes to bowling. Very very good but still short of an ATG.

    You just have to ask yourself this: Is Anderson worthy enough of rubbing shoulders with the likes of McGrath, Akram, Warne, Marshall??? Nope!!! Wickets are simply not the barometer here to judge who's an ATG. Similarly runs isn't for a batter otherwise Cook would be regarded higher than Lara which would be preposterous isn't it.

  63. #63
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    And one cannot discount Jimmy's away performances. An average of 35 in Australia, 41 in SL, 40 in South Africa, 33 both in New Zealand and India, is hardly consistent with someone who is an ATG.

    If you can discount this, then we should accept home track bullies as ATG when it comes to batsmen as well. Cheteshwar Pujara if he scores 10k+ runs should be an ATG given he averages more than 60 at home but only 34 away. Ridiculous isn't it.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by shariqnoor View Post
    And one cannot discount Jimmy's away performances. An average of 35 in Australia, 41 in SL, 40 in South Africa, 33 both in New Zealand and India, is hardly consistent with someone who is an ATG.

    If you can discount this, then we should accept home track bullies as ATG when it comes to batsmen as well. Cheteshwar Pujara if he scores 10k+ runs should be an ATG given he averages more than 60 at home but only 34 away. Ridiculous isn't it.
    As simple as it gets, he is not an atg.
    Dravid, chanders etc had good records in most countries except one or two whereas james anderson has good records in just two countries. Anderson is not even a low tier atg like dravid or chanders.

  65. #65
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    Just to put it into perspective:

    Akram - 17 5fers and 4 10fers in away tests out of a total of 25 5fers and 5 10fers .
    Anderson - 5 5fers and 0 10fers in away tests out of a total of 26 5fers and 3 10fers.

    Yep. Makes complete sense to have Anderson and Akram in the same category as an ATG. *facepalm*

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    Quote Originally Posted by shariqnoor View Post
    Do people consider Chanderpaul, Dravid, Inzamam, Jayawardene ATGs???? Despite them having 50+ averages, they are still not ATGs. Jimmy Anderson belongs in that category when it comes to bowling. Very very good but still short of an ATG.

    You just have to ask yourself this: Is Anderson worthy enough of rubbing shoulders with the likes of McGrath, Akram, Warne, Marshall??? Nope!!! Wickets are simply not the barometer here to judge who's an ATG. Similarly runs isn't for a batter otherwise Cook would be regarded higher than Lara which would be preposterous isn't it.
    Jayawardene is not an ATG or even borderline. Chanderpaul is a borderline ATG. Inzamam is barely an ATG if he's one. Dravid is a low tier ATG.

    Anderson's away stats are terrible to be an ATG. His home stats mean nothing, Test cricket is dominated by home bullies. Away stats separate home bullies from actual ATGs.

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    The comparison with Pujara is false one. 13 batsmen in history have scored 10k+ runs, and this number would be close to 20 in over a decade. Scoring 10k runs is clearly an achievement, but it is not a miracle.

    However, with the way Anderson is bowling, he is going to comfortably end up with 600+ wickets, and he has done that at a very good average of 26 odd. Its a feat no fast bowler in history has achieved.

    That alone makes him an all-time great, irrespective of the fact that his away numbers are not outstanding. Yes quality trumps quantity, but like I said, you cannot ignore the fact that Anderson is on the brink of achieving what no other fast bowler in history has come anywhere close to.

    If there were 15-20 other fast bowlers with 500+ wickets, Anderson wouldn't have been an ATG.

    As far as his away record is concerned, he hasn't been consistent, but he has produced match-winning spells in every country he has played. His performance in Australia in 2011-12 was one of the best performances by an overseas bowler in Australia ever, and he was also instrumental in helping England win in India in 2012.

    Someone like Pujara has always flopped overseas barring one knock in South Africa, and he has not been anywhere as influential in away wins as Anderson has been.

    The batting equivalent of Anderson would be a batsman scoring 17-18k runs (something no batsman has achieved) with incredible home performances and also some very good overseas performances at various points in his career.

    Such a batsman would most definitely be an ATG, however, it does not mean that he would be as good as Tendulkar or Lara - you don't have to be as good as them to be an ATG, which is why dismissing Anderson's claim as an ATG because he is not as good as Akram is pointless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    The comparison with Pujara is false one. 13 batsmen in history have scored 10k+ runs, and this number would be close to 20 in over a decade. Scoring 10k runs is clearly an achievement, but it is not a miracle.

    However, with the way Anderson is bowling, he is going to comfortably end up with 600+ wickets, and he has done that at a very good average of 26 odd. Its a feat no fast bowler in history has achieved.

    That alone makes him an all-time great, irrespective of the fact that his away numbers are not outstanding. Yes quality trumps quantity, but like I said, you cannot ignore the fact that Anderson is on the brink of achieving what no other fast bowler in history has come anywhere close to.

    If there were 15-20 other fast bowlers with 500+ wickets, Anderson wouldn't have been an ATG.

    As far as his away record is concerned, he hasn't been consistent, but he has produced match-winning spells in every country he has played. His performance in Australia in 2011-12 was one of the best performances by an overseas bowler in Australia ever, and he was also instrumental in helping England win in India in 2012.

    Someone like Pujara has always flopped overseas barring one knock in South Africa, and he has not been anywhere as influential in away wins as Anderson has been.

    The batting equivalent of Anderson would be a batsman scoring 17-18k runs (something no batsman has achieved) with incredible home performances and also some very good overseas performances at various points in his career.

    Such a batsman would most definitely be an ATG, however, it does not mean that he would be as good as Tendulkar or Lara - you don't have to be as good as them to be an ATG, which is why dismissing Anderson's claim as an ATG because he is not as good as Akram is pointless.
    So do you consider kumble an atg?

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeeteshssaxena View Post
    So do you consider kumble an atg?
    Why not? No ordinary spinner can take as many wickets as he did, and although he wasn’t great overseas, he did play memorable roles in two of the most iconic Indian overseas performances in the 2000s - Australia 2003/04 and Pakistan 2004.

    In addition, he was one of the best match-winners in home conditions ever.

    He isn’t a Warne/Muralitharan level ATG, but he is still ahead of 99% of spinners who have played the game.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    The comparison with Pujara is false one. 13 batsmen in history have scored 10k+ runs, and this number would be close to 20 in over a decade. Scoring 10k runs is clearly an achievement, but it is not a miracle.

    However, with the way Anderson is bowling, he is going to comfortably end up with 600+ wickets, and he has done that at a very good average of 26 odd. Its a feat no fast bowler in history has achieved.

    That alone makes him an all-time great, irrespective of the fact that his away numbers are not outstanding. Yes quality trumps quantity, but like I said, you cannot ignore the fact that Anderson is on the brink of achieving what no other fast bowler in history has come anywhere close to.

    If there were 15-20 other fast bowlers with 500+ wickets, Anderson wouldn't have been an ATG.

    As far as his away record is concerned, he hasn't been consistent, but he has produced match-winning spells in every country he has played. His performance in Australia in 2011-12 was one of the best performances by an overseas bowler in Australia ever, and he was also instrumental in helping England win in India in 2012.

    Someone like Pujara has always flopped overseas barring one knock in South Africa, and he has not been anywhere as influential in away wins as Anderson has been.

    The batting equivalent of Anderson would be a batsman scoring 17-18k runs (something no batsman has achieved) with incredible home performances and also some very good overseas performances at various points in his career.

    Such a batsman would most definitely be an ATG, however, it does not mean that he would be as good as Tendulkar or Lara - you don't have to be as good as them to be an ATG, which is why dismissing Anderson's claim as an ATG because he is not as good as Akram is pointless.
    Basically this is the main point and I agree, Fast bowling ATG is still a very elite club there are hardly 10-15 bowlers in history of cricket that cut the strict marks.(300 wickets , sub 25 average etc). I think if anderson can get to the highest wicket taker in history mark he will defo retire as some type of ATG.

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    Also Anderson cant be compared to Kumbli , Anderson is a better bowler and way more skillfull in his domain than Kumbli.

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    Anderson may end up with 800 wickets but it would still not make him an ATG because of his absolutely inferior away record. That record isn't even average. It's pathetic. He needs to address it manifolds to even be considered as an ATG.

    Also, the fact that no fast bowler has reached 600 wickets is because of the fact that no bowler in history has played as many Test matches as James Anderson. If somebody played 250 Test matches and got 700 wickets to become the all time leading wicket taker in history for fast bowlers, would that make him better than Anderson? Catapulting Anderson to an ATG level just because he has the most wickets is ridiculous in this case as he has also played the most matches. It is natural for someone who plays more will get more runs and more wickets.

    "His performance in Australia in 2011-12 was one of the best performances by an overseas bowler in Australia ever"

    Hyperbole. 14 wickets taken by Anderson that series were of batsmen 6 or lower. I'm sure that really can't be classified as one of the best performance by an overseas bowler in Australia EVER. Also Anderson in 2010 was at the peak of his powers. Never replicated that season again.

    The fact that you have to cherry pick series to make your point that Anderson is an ATG is testament to itself that he isn't. An ATG always gets talked about in general terms. You don't have to sift through series to lavish praise on an ATG.

    If there were 15-20 other fast bowlers with 500+ wickets, Anderson wouldn't have been an ATG.

    Stuart Broad in the next 2 years will join the 500 club. So he's an ATG? Pretty sure there aren't 15-20 fast bowlers with 500+ wickets.

    The batting equivalent of Anderson would be a batsman scoring 17-18k runs

    Pretty sure if Cook plays till 42 like Misbah did, Cook will be at 17k Test runs. Would you make him an ATG?

    So let's just leave it. Anderson is a very very very good bowler. But that's where it ends. ATG's are reserved for players like Kohli, Akram, Marshall, Warne, McGrath, Tendulkar, Lara. Anderson is well below that bracket.

  73. #73
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    No I don’t think he’s an all time great let alone an England great.

    For me he’s like Courtney Walsh’s.
    Good fitness and longevity and excellent in home conditions.

  74. #74
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    In fact i’d pit Courtney ahead of Anderson and no one Regards Courtney as an all time great.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by shariqnoor View Post
    Anderson may end up with 800 wickets but it would still not make him an ATG because of his absolutely inferior away record. That record isn't even average. It's pathetic. He needs to address it manifolds to even be considered as an ATG.

    Also, the fact that no fast bowler has reached 600 wickets is because of the fact that no bowler in history has played as many Test matches as James Anderson. If somebody played 250 Test matches and got 700 wickets to become the all time leading wicket taker in history for fast bowlers, would that make him better than Anderson? Catapulting Anderson to an ATG level just because he has the most wickets is ridiculous in this case as he has also played the most matches. It is natural for someone who plays more will get more runs and more wickets.

    "His performance in Australia in 2011-12 was one of the best performances by an overseas bowler in Australia ever"

    Hyperbole. 14 wickets taken by Anderson that series were of batsmen 6 or lower. I'm sure that really can't be classified as one of the best performance by an overseas bowler in Australia EVER. Also Anderson in 2010 was at the peak of his powers. Never replicated that season again.

    The fact that you have to cherry pick series to make your point that Anderson is an ATG is testament to itself that he isn't. An ATG always gets talked about in general terms. You don't have to sift through series to lavish praise on an ATG.

    If there were 15-20 other fast bowlers with 500+ wickets, Anderson wouldn't have been an ATG.

    Stuart Broad in the next 2 years will join the 500 club. So he's an ATG? Pretty sure there aren't 15-20 fast bowlers with 500+ wickets.

    The batting equivalent of Anderson would be a batsman scoring 17-18k runs

    Pretty sure if Cook plays till 42 like Misbah did, Cook will be at 17k Test runs. Would you make him an ATG?

    So let's just leave it. Anderson is a very very very good bowler. But that's where it ends. ATG's are reserved for players like Kohli, Akram, Marshall, Warne, McGrath, Tendulkar, Lara. Anderson is well below that bracket.
    Cook at 33 fails in 90% of his innings and drops every second catch at first slip. Clearly, he is on his last legs and his reflexes are waning. If he hangs around till 42, which is another 9 years, he won't score a run and won't catch a cold.

    I find it ironic that you are calling Anderson's performance in Ashes 2010/11 as cherry picking, because the only cherry picking is dismissing his fantastic series because he took X number of lower-order/tail wickets. That is what you call cherry picking.

    He took 24 wickets in the series and no other bowler came anywhere close to his tally. It was one of the most dominant performances by a visiting team in Australia in a long, long time, and he played a starring role. There is no point in weighing down his contribution because clearly, England would not have inflicted three innings defeats in five Tests without his bowling.

    If we sort bowlers based on the percentage of lower-order/tail wickets that they have taken in their career, someone like Akram would feature very high in the last and Anderson would feature very low. In fact, he has often struggled to clean up the tail because of his lack of space. However, obviously this does not mean that he is as good as Akram - he is not even close - but a merely very good bowler cannot trouble some of the best batsmen of all time the way Anderson has.

    People very easily dismiss his and Broad's success because they play a lot of matches in good conditions. It takes a lot of skill, talent and determination to bowl at the age of 36 the way Anderson is bowling. For example, look at the best bowler of his era (Steyn). He is the same age as Anderson, has less far less international matches but these days he cannot bowl 20 overs without getting injured.

    Every player wants to have a long career, but longevity is not everyone's cup of tea, and those who achieve longevity deserves to be recognized for it.

    Anderson is not as good as Marshall, McGrath, Ambrose, Imran, Akram, Donald etc., but he is not just merely a very good bowler.

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    Most definitely an ATG .His away average is 32 which is not bad either.For instance Dennis Lillee averaged 68 in Asia.There are holes in most' careers if you look for them

    We must not forget than Sachin,who dominated the best bowlers,always found it tough v Jimmy


    The only disability in life is a bad attitude. -Scott Hamilton

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    Reckon if he plays on for another couple of years, that career average might fall below 25. He has easily been the best fast bowler in the world over the last 5 years.

    I am increasingly convinced that the posters who continue to disparage his career have never picked a cricket ball in their lives.

  78. #78
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    A good comparison is Courtney Walsh against his own predecessors Michael Holding or Andy Roberts - even if Walsh had 500 test wickets and could be seen as a great in some way, but would you bracket him in the same ATG class as Holding or Roberts? I wouldn't even if the latter duo have less than 500 test wickets combined.

    And in same way Abdul Qadir with 200 odd test wickets was a far more gifted and skilful leg spinner than Kumble ever was, and in right conditions a more threatening prospect for batsmen.

    Quantity and quality are two different things, that's not to say Anderson is not quality , but not quite premium quality either.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majid Khan View Post
    A good comparison is Courtney Walsh against his own predecessors Michael Holding or Andy Roberts - even if Walsh had 500 test wickets and could be seen as a great in some way, but would you bracket him in the same ATG class as Holding or Roberts? I wouldn't even if the latter duo have less than 500 test wickets combined.

    And in same way Abdul Qadir with 200 odd test wickets was a far more gifted and skilful leg spinner than Kumble ever was, and in right conditions a more threatening prospect for batsmen.

    Quantity and quality are two different things, that's not to say Anderson is not quality , but not quite premium quality either.
    By that token, Qadir averaged 47 away from home (70 in India, 40 in England and 60 in Australia). He definitely possessed more tricks up his sleeve than Kumble, but consistency deserves to be acknowledged as well.

    Things don't have to be black and white defined by statistics alone, I certainly think there is room in the mythical ATG pantheon to include someone like Anderson in there. Anderson has mastered one of cricket's fundamental arts in conventional swing bowling and that is something that most people overlook.

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    Walsh is definitely an ATG and so is Anderson.


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