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  1. #1
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    How many Pakistanis would make it into India’s current Test team?

    Not meant to gloat or be disrespectful. A serious cricketing question.

    Using cricket logic and no bias- I would suggest :

    Azhar >>>>>> Vijay

    Babar >>>>>>>>>>> Rahane

    Sarfraz > Karthik

    Shadab >> Kuldeep ( need to see how Kuldeep fares in tests)

    Faheem >>> Pandey

    Abbas >>>> Shami

    Amir >>>>> Sharma

    Ok - maybe some bias after all 😀

    But honestly- are the above not valid??

  2. #2
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    At the moment Rahane might be worse than Shafiq. Not Babar though lol. Bobby is mediocre in Tests.

  3. #3
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    Actually- Shafiq should also be included!

    Babar is better then Rahane!!!

  4. #4
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    I admit to some bias - but I honestly think iím not too far off with the above choices.

  5. #5
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    Hasan >>>>> Bumrah
    Wahab >>>> Umesh


  6. #6
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    Umesh, Rahul, Rahane, Karthik and Pandya. Home track bullies of the highest order.

  7. #7
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    Apart from Kohli and Ashwin, 9 players walk into this Indian Test XI eyes closed. And this is after Bobby being our worst test bat at the moment.

    For starters, Shafiq and Azhar are proper test bats who have daddy centuries almost in every country they've played in. Ever since Harry's been our #3 he's been our most reliable bat and with Sarfraz competing against Karthik and the bowlers having zero vis-a-vis competition I think at best 9 players and the bare minimum would be 7 players making it into the Indian XI.

  8. #8
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    How have you missed Yasir?

  9. #9
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    Before any Indians post their indignation - India fully deserve their number 1 status and Pakistan are not a great team.

    However, the number 1 status had been helped entirely by home performances and those in SL,BD and WI.

    Thereís a valid question about good India really are.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahmedwaqas92 View Post
    Apart from Kohli and Ashwin, 9 players walk into this Indian Test XI eyes closed. And this is after Bobby being our worst test bat at the moment.

    For starters, Shafiq and Azhar are proper test bats who have daddy centuries almost in every country they've played in. Ever since Harry's been our #3 he's been our most reliable bat and with Sarfraz competing against Karthik and the bowlers having zero vis-a-vis competition I think at best 9 players and the bare minimum would be 7 players making it into the Indian XI.
    I canít disagree with your logic. If you take Kohli and Ashwin from this team, itís a county side.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Googly View Post
    Not meant to gloat or be disrespectful. A serious cricketing question.

    Using cricket logic and no bias- I would suggest :

    Azhar >>>>>> Vijay

    Babar >>>>>>>>>>> Rahane

    Sarfraz > Karthik

    Shadab >> Kuldeep ( need to see how Kuldeep fares in tests)

    Faheem >>> Pandey

    Abbas >>>> Shami

    Amir >>>>> Sharma

    Ok - maybe some bias after all ��

    But honestly- are the above not valid??


    You can't put it straight, because Test cricket has a massive factor of venue - where it's being played. Roughly, there are 4 major Test venues in world - Indian/SRL/BD's turning track (Add UAE & WIN as well, but WIN has some green tracks as well); AUS/SAF's hard, scratchy & bouncy tracks and English seemers. And, definitely team will change for different venues.

    If I select a combined XII, I think this will be my squads

    ENG:
    Azhar, Babar (Make-shift, no other option)
    Haris, Kohli, Asad, Rahne,
    Saha
    Amir, Yasir/Ashwin, BK, Abbas
    PAK/IND: 7/5

    AUS/SAF:
    Azhar, KL
    Asad, Kohli, Rahne, Shadab
    Saha
    Amir, Wahab, Ashwin, Bumrah/Hasan
    PAK/IND: 6/6

    IND:
    Dhawan, KL
    Pujara, Kohli, Asad, Shadab
    Saha
    Ashwin, Jadeja, Amir, Abbas/Wahab
    PAK/IND: 5/7
    Last edited by MMHS; 11th August 2018 at 02:20.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Googly View Post
    Not meant to gloat or be disrespectful. A serious cricketing question.

    Using cricket logic and no bias- I would suggest :

    Azhar >>>>>> Vijay

    Babar >>>>>>>>>>> Rahane

    Sarfraz > Karthik

    Shadab >> Kuldeep ( need to see how Kuldeep fares in tests)

    Faheem >>> Pandey

    Abbas >>>> Shami

    Amir >>>>> Sharma

    Ok - maybe some bias after all 😀

    But honestly- are the above not valid??
    Ishant v Amir
    Last 3 years, Ishant - 57 wickets at avg of 27 SR 58, Amir 56 wickets at avg of 33 and SR 73.

    And this is when Amir has played most of the game outside subcontinent. In away matches Amir averages 29, Sharma 23.

    Bowler to be picked - Ishant

    Abbas v Bhuvi
    Bhuvi in 9 matches - 34 wickets at avg of 18 and Abbas 33 wickets at avg of 17.7. Bhuvi won a game with his AR performance in SA.

    I would go with Bhuvneswar

    Shami has taken 66 wickets at avg of 24 in last 3 years. He has best avg after Bhuvi and Abbas.

    3rd bowler - Shami

    Spinner slot can easily go to Ashwin

    What has Faheem done in test cricket so far to get ahead of Pandya anyway? At least Pandya scored a 93. Anyway pick either and it doesn't matter. Pandya shouldn't be playing tests.

    Karthik is another player who shouldn't be in test team. Average keeper and that's enough to remove him. Not sure how Sarfaraz has been keeping recently.

    Kohli would be automatic pick.

    At least 5 players (4 bowlers and Kohli) would automatically have fixed position.

    Rest of the Indian players are average and any Pakistani batsman can replace them depending on conditions.



  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    You can't put it straight, because Test cricket has a massive factor of venue - where it's being played. Roughly, there are 4 major Test venues in world - Indian/SRL/BD's turning track (Add UAE & WIN as well, but WIN has some green tracks as well); AUS/SAF's hard, scratchy & bouncy tracks and English seemers. And, definitely team will change for different venues.

    If I select a combined XII, I think this will be my squads

    ENG:
    Azhar, Babar (Make-shift, no other option)
    Haris, Kohli, Asad, Rahne,
    Saha
    Amir, Yasir/Ashwin, BK, Abbas
    PAK/IND: 7/5

    AUS/SAF:
    Azhar, KL
    Asad, Kohli, Rahne, Shadab
    Saha
    Amir, Wahab, Ashwin, Bumrah/Hasan
    PAK/IND: 6/6

    IND:
    Dhawan, KL
    Pujara, Kohli, Asad, Shadab
    Saha
    Ashwin, Jadeja, Amir, Abbas/Wahab
    PAK/IND: 5/7
    Why would Amir be in your all teams when he is not even among top 4 pacers currently?

    Shami, Bhuvi, Ishant, Abbas all have done better than him recently. Bhuvi was MoM in only test Ind-Pak have won in last 8 years and yet he won't play in SAF, amazing.

    Shami who has been best pacer overall in last 3 years doesn't even find a place.

    Wondering if you even watch cricket.



  14. #14
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    Amir and Wahab haven't been better than Umesh Yadav, yet PP experts are picking them.



  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Googly View Post
    Not meant to gloat or be disrespectful. A serious cricketing question.

    Using cricket logic and no bias- I would suggest :

    Azhar >>>>>> Vijay

    Babar >>>>>>>>>>> Rahane

    Sarfraz > Karthik

    Shadab >> Kuldeep ( need to see how Kuldeep fares in tests)

    Faheem >>> Pandey

    Abbas >>>> Shami

    Amir >>>>> Sharma

    Ok - maybe some bias after all ��

    But honestly- are the above not valid??
    Babar >>>>>>>>>>> Rahane

    Lol.

    Faheem >>> Pandey

    Yup. Because Manish pandey is yet to play a test match.

  16. #16
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    In Asia



    Outside Asia



    Batsmen in Asia


    Batsmen outside Asia



  17. #17
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    Abbas and Azhar would get in.

    India would probably take Babar based on potential in LOI and already achieved success at international level, given they're trying to blood in new guys. His first class average is a bit low, but think they'd still take him.

  18. #18
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    Only Kohli and Ashwin would get into the Pakistan team,

  19. #19
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    I m sorry, r we talking about same Pakistani players who couldn't mange to avoid being whitewashed by minnow srilanka at home?

    Or m I missing something?
    Last edited by RainMan_; 11th August 2018 at 05:50.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by RainMan_ View Post
    I m sorry, r we talking about same Pakistani players who couldn't mange to avoid being whitewashed by minnow srilanka at home?

    Or m I missing something?
    and the same ones who beat England at Lord's in alien conditions?


    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by RainMan_ View Post
    I m sorry, r we talking about same Pakistani players who couldn't mange to avoid being whitewashed by minnow srilanka at home?

    Or m I missing something?
    I don't know why anyone would call Sri Lanka a minnow in test cricket. Especially considering the way they have whitewashed Australia and South Africa at home

  22. #22
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    For English conditions:

    Azhar Ali
    Imam ul Haq
    Babar Azam
    Virat Kohli
    Asad shafique
    Sarfaraz
    Faheem Ashraf
    R Ashwin
    Abbas
    Bhuvi
    Amir

    This is the perfect line up for English conditions.. If Hasan ali performs well in next 1-2 years in test he can replace Bhuvi or Amir..

  23. #23
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    I am sending a link of your thread to the ICC, so that they can give Indiaís number 1 ranking to Pakistan and Pakistanís number 7 ranking to India.

    It appears that only 2-3 Indian players are good enough to get into the number 7 ranked team, a team that were demolished in the UAE by Sri Lanka, a team that has never won a Test in India.

    Pakistan is a joke of a Test team everywhere, everywhere but a few matches in London. They are outperformed by India in Australia, South Africa, Asia etc., but that doesnít matter because only matches against in England in London count.

    Lordís and the Oval are the only two cricket venues in the world, and consider our superior record there, we can conclude that we are a better Test team than India and hence we deserve to be ranked higher than them.

    My only worry is that the ICC might reply to my suggestion by stating that our whining and our delusions do not have the power to change rankings.

    After all, they are puppets of BCCI, and they will not change the rankings even though only 2-3 Indian players get into the brilliant Test team of Pakistan.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedwoodOriginal View Post
    I don't know why anyone would call Sri Lanka a minnow in test cricket. Especially considering the way they have whitewashed Australia and South Africa at home
    Sri Lanka is a poor Test side who can only beat teams who are awful against spin. They have never won a Test in India and probably never will.

    Losing 2-0 in the UAE to Sri Lanka is far worse than losing 5-0 in England to England. Just because we are a pathetic Test team and are only better than India at Lordís and Oval does not mean that we have to overrate Sri Lanka.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    and the same ones who beat England at Lord's in alien conditions?
    Yes, we are better than India at Lordís and Oval. Meanwhile, they are better in other venues and other countries, and that is why they are 1 and we are 7.

    Our empty arrogance and delusions will not change that.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Googly View Post
    Not meant to gloat or be disrespectful. A serious cricketing question.

    Using cricket logic and no bias- I would suggest :

    Azhar >>>>>> Vijay

    Babar >>>>>>>>>>> Rahane

    Sarfraz > Karthik

    Shadab >> Kuldeep ( need to see how Kuldeep fares in tests)

    Faheem >>> Pandey

    Abbas >>>> Shami

    Amir >>>>> Sharma

    Ok - maybe some bias after all 😀

    But honestly- are the above not valid??
    Yes, this is clearly devoid of any bias. You forgot to mention that Haris is better than Kohli, our friends here are adamant that the former is the best player of swing and seam in Asia.

  27. #27
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    Only Abbas and Azhar.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Only Kohli and Ashwin would get into the Pakistan team,
    Robert knows his cricket .

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Yes, this is clearly devoid of any bias. You forgot to mention that Haris is better than Kohli, our friends here are adamant that the former is the best player of swing and seam in Asia.

    Four replies to this post ! This really got your knickers in a twist didnít it?

    You clearly didnít read the post where I fully admitted I was being biased or where I clearly stated India deserved their number 1 status or that Pakistan are not a great side????

    Please look at the mirror brother and ask if this constant negativity and inferiority complex has an underlying cause that is stopping you from enjoying life. Itís becoming slightly irritating.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Yes, this is clearly devoid of any bias. You forgot to mention that Haris is better than Kohli, our friends here are adamant that the former is the best player of swing and seam in Asia.
    Not many comments regarding Hardik Pandya these days? 🤔

    Haris sohail has potential to become a very good test number 4. He is going to be solid most of the times, the only thing is, can he make big runs or he is a 40-60 runs maker.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlizeeFan View Post
    In Asia



    Outside Asia



    Batsmen in Asia


    Batsmen outside Asia
    How long did you spend researching all this?
    It was time wasted cos stats and averages do not always reflect how good a player is.

    I think iíll stick to my original opinion and bin your stats.
    Umesh Yadav is the biggest pile of horse manure Iíve seen in many a year and I donít care what stats you bring up Mr Statmaster.

  32. #32
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    Kohli and Ashwin.

    Dhawan and Pujara could probably make the side in Asia however.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlizeeFan View Post
    Ishant v Amir
    Last 3 years, Ishant - 57 wickets at avg of 27 SR 58, Amir 56 wickets at avg of 33 and SR 73.

    And this is when Amir has played most of the game outside subcontinent. In away matches Amir averages 29, Sharma 23.

    Bowler to be picked - Ishant

    Abbas v Bhuvi
    Bhuvi in 9 matches - 34 wickets at avg of 18 and Abbas 33 wickets at avg of 17.7. Bhuvi won a game with his AR performance in SA.

    I would go with Bhuvneswar

    Shami has taken 66 wickets at avg of 24 in last 3 years. He has best avg after Bhuvi and Abbas.

    3rd bowler - Shami

    Spinner slot can easily go to Ashwin

    What has Faheem done in test cricket so far to get ahead of Pandya anyway? At least Pandya scored a 93. Anyway pick either and it doesn't matter. Pandya shouldn't be playing tests.

    Karthik is another player who shouldn't be in test team. Average keeper and that's enough to remove him. Not sure how Sarfaraz has been keeping recently.

    Kohli would be automatic pick.

    At least 5 players (4 bowlers and Kohli) would automatically have fixed position.

    Rest of the Indian players are average and any Pakistani batsman can replace them depending on conditions.
    Pretty silly to not pick Abbas, Ave 17, i favor of Ishant, Ave 27, even if you contrive to assert that Bhuvi is a marginally better option than Abbas. That is why some electoral models require voters to select both second and first picks. Abbas would walk into any Asian Test XI on current form. Amir on the other hand does not deserve to be picked in Tests at all, and Ishant may well be a better option than Amir; Shami clearly is.

    Depending on Jadeja's form in Asia outside India, one could also make an argument for playing Yasir alongside Ashwin as a second spinner. e.g. in the UAE or Sri Lanka. He has been the fastest bowler ever to 100 wickets, even faster than Ashwin. But it would be a marginal call; India has an abundance of serviceable spin resources. But if an allrounder is required and the Test is in Asia I'd pick Shadab any day over Pandya.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Only Kohli and Ashwin would get into the Pakistan team,
    Only VK.

    IMO Shadab has much more potential than Ashwin. Although, let's wait a couple of years. Plus no one can argue Shadab's action.


    Yep, I want Ashwin to be tested. Deal with it.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Yes, we are better than India at Lordís and Oval. Meanwhile, they are better in other venues and other countries, and that is why they are 1 and we are 7.

    Our empty arrogance and delusions will not change that.
    Lol. For Pete Sake man. What a load of codswollop. I donít believe you can convince even yourself how much nonsense you talk at times.

    Hereís a free tip. Just once. Once only and never again. Try it. See how it feels. Be positive.

  36. #36
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    All the nonsense aside, if we are to compare a full strength Indian XI to a full strength Pakistan XI, this is how it will pan out:

    Vijay vs Azhar - Vijay has been a better player than Azhar, and Azhar has been ordinary after his 2016-2017 purple patch. However, maybe Azhar just about gets the nod.

    Rahul vs Imam - Rahul

    Pujara vs Haris - Pujara

    Kohli vs Babar - Kohli

    Rahane vs Shafiq - Rahane

    Saha vs Sarfraz - tie

    This is a tough one. Saha is a brilliant wicket-keeper but a poor batsman, while Sarfraz is average in both departments.

    On turning wickets, Saha brings more value with his superior keeping. On flat wickets, Sarfraz will score more. Hence a tie.

    Pandya vs Fahim/Shadab - Pandya/Shadab

    Pandya is better than than Fahim, but on spinning wickets, Shadab will bring more value.

    Ashwin vs Yasir - Ashwin wins. Both are equally unplayable on turning wickets, but Ashwin has better control and scores a lot more runs.

    Bhuvi vs Abbas - Bhuvi

    Shami vs Amir - Shami

    Bumrah vs Hassan - tough, but perhaps Hassan gets the nod because he is more well-rounded.

    Conclusion:

    India 7-2 Pakistan. Saha vs Sarfraz and Pandya vs Fahim/Shadab is a tie depending on conditions.

    And this is why India is ranked 1 and Pakistan is ranked 7, and this is why India is better than Pakistan everywhere except Lordís and Oval.

    Maybe in a parallel universe only 2-3 Indian players get into our 7th ranked team, but this world does not exist in a parallel universe.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Googly View Post
    Lol. For Pete Sake man. What a load of codswollop. I donít believe you can convince even yourself how much nonsense you talk at times.

    Hereís a free tip. Just once. Once only and never again. Try it. See how it feels. Be positive.
    http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/1...nd-pak-2017-18

    Never forget.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Googly View Post
    Lol. For Pete Sake man. What a load of codswollop. I don’t believe you can convince even yourself how much nonsense you talk at times.

    Here’s a free tip. Just once. Once only and never again. Try it. See how it feels. Be positive.
    The irony of this post is hilarious.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mobashir View Post
    Not many comments regarding Hardik Pandya these days? 🤔

    Haris sohail has potential to become a very good test number 4. He is going to be solid most of the times, the only thing is, can he make big runs or he is a 40-60 runs maker.
    I have lost interest in that thread because it is bumped after every performance by the respective players, and people keep on repeating themselves over and over again.

    When Fahim was collecting ducks against minnows, Pandya fans were bumping it; now that Pandya is struggling in England, Fahim fans are doing the honors.

    Let both of them play for a few years and then look at where they stand.

    However, Pandya, in spite of not playing minnows and weak teams consistently like Fahim, has a head start because he has played 3-4 innings in a short period of time that Fahim will probably struggle to better throughout his career.

    He has more potential and I would say that there is a 90% chance that he will end up with a better career.

    It is normal for young all-rounders to struggle. Even Stokes was considered a joke by a lot of PPers when he was struggling in 2014, and eventually they had to eat their hats.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Ok thatís it. Iím now convinced. Please send a copy of your Pakistan Identity card otherwise I will assume you are an Indian supporter.

    Why oh why are you so hellbent on being desperate to put down Pakistan in every post? If we win something, itís a fluke. If we lose, we are terrible. Never any show of pride or acceptance that we have done remarkably well despite so many issues in our country and the poverty and playing away from home for years.

    Iím convinced if a Pakistan player walked across the River Indus rather than take the ferry, youíd ridicule him for not being able to swim!

    You are clearly a cricket fan - I see that. But you are incredibly negative and have an inferiority complex that is very irritating. You are either an Indian fan or a major attention seeker.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Googly View Post
    Ok thatís it. Iím now convinced. Please send a copy of your Pakistan Identity card otherwise I will assume you are an Indian supporter.

    Why oh why are you so hellbent on being desperate to put down Pakistan in every post? If we win something, itís a fluke. If we lose, we are terrible. Never any show of pride or acceptance that we have done remarkably well despite so many issues in our country and the poverty and playing away from home for years.

    Iím convinced if a Pakistan player walked across the River Indus rather than take the ferry, youíd ridicule him for not being able to swim!

    You are clearly a cricket fan - I see that. But you are incredibly negative and have an inferiority complex that is very irritating. You are either an Indian fan or a major attention seeker.
    You can call me whatever you want, but people on this forum with whom I have conversed at a more personal level know where I am from.

    I donít appreciate jingoism and people who lack objectivity. In no world is Pakistan a better Test team than India and only 2-3 Indians get into our team.

    Letís reverse the roles - if Pakistan was better than India in all countries except England, and if India would have been blanked at home by Sri Lanka recently, would you have created this thread?

    Just because I am Pakistani does not mean that I am not capable of appreciating the fact that India is simply a superior team and have been since the early 2000s.

    There is a reason why they have won more silverware, won more big matches and produced better players.

    And this isnít a conspiracy against Pakistan. There is a reason why they have been better and there is no reason why it will change in the future.

    If a Pakistani fan cannot accept all of that, then you are right, I am not a Pakistan fan. In fact, in that case, I donít want to be a Pakistan fan.

  42. #42
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    The original post has clearly got done knickers in a twist.

    If you polled cricketers around the world who are neutral, I am convinced more would agree with me on the following:

    - Azhar >>> Viyay
    - Shafiq >>>> Rahul
    - Babar >>>>> Rahane
    - Shadab >>>> Kuldeep and Pandya
    - Faheem >>>> Pandya as a bowler
    - Sarfraz >>>> Karthik
    - Amir >>>> any Indian bowler
    - Hasan Ali >>> Sharma
    - Abbas >>>> Umesh

    You can bring up your stats and il ignore them. India deserve number 1 and Pakistan arenít great so donít go digging up our recent test record.

    I am simply stating that the above Pakistan players have more talent then their counterparts and I am strongly sticking to this.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    You can call me whatever you want, but people on this forum with whom I have conversed at a more personal level know where I am from.

    I donít appreciate jingoism and people who lack objectivity. In no world is Pakistan a better Test team than India and only 2-3 Indians get into our team.

    Letís reverse the roles - if Pakistan was better than India in all countries except England, and if India would have been blanked at home by Sri Lanka recently, would you have created this thread?

    Just because I am Pakistani does not mean that I am not capable of appreciating the fact that India is simply a superior team and have been since the early 2000s.

    There is a reason why they have won more silverware, won more big matches and produced better players.

    And this isnít a conspiracy against Pakistan. There is a reason why they have been better and there is no reason why it will change in the future.

    If a Pakistani fan cannot accept all of that, then you are right, I am not a Pakistan fan. In fact, in that case, I donít want to be a Pakistan fan.
    Brother read my posts again. I never said Pakistan is better then India!!! I said India are number 1 and that Pakistan are by no means a great side.

    I simply stated that several Pakistan players are better. I stick with that.

    Itís not being jingoistic in the slightest. Itís based on cricket opinion and logic.

    You are an attention seeker brother. Donít take offence. You look for negative in everything in order to be different and get people wound up and notice you. Itís not a good trait. Itís irritating and does you no favours.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Googly View Post
    Brother read my posts again. I never said Pakistan is better then India!!! I said India are number 1 and that Pakistan are by no means a great side.

    I simply stated that several Pakistan players are better. I stick with that.

    Itís not being jingoistic in the slightest. Itís based on cricket opinion and logic.

    You are an attention seeker brother. Donít take offence. You look for negative in everything in order to be different and get people wound up and notice you. Itís not a good trait. Itís irritating and does you no favours.
    To say that you sound a little confused would be a gross understatement.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Googly View Post
    The original post has clearly got done knickers in a twist.

    If you polled cricketers around the world who are neutral, I am convinced more would agree with me on the following:

    - Azhar >>> Viyay
    - Shafiq >>>> Rahul
    - Babar >>>>> Rahane
    - Shadab >>>> Kuldeep and Pandya
    - Faheem >>>> Pandya as a bowler
    - Sarfraz >>>> Karthik
    - Amir >>>> any Indian bowler
    - Hasan Ali >>> Sharma
    - Abbas >>>> Umesh

    You can bring up your stats and il ignore them. India deserve number 1 and Pakistan arenít great so donít go digging up our recent test record.

    I am simply stating that the above Pakistan players have more talent then their counterparts and I am strongly sticking to this.



    Oh the talent card. Now it makes sense.

    Pakistan have always been blessed with more talent than any cricket nation in the world.

    71 years ago, when Pakistan were granted independence from British rule, God for some reason decided to bless this region of 340,000 sq mi with more cricket talent than any country in the world.

    However for some reason, these ridiculously talented people have not been able to dominate the game to do justice to their unparalleled talents.

    That is why the ICC needs to release rankings based on talent, so that we can be number 1 in all formats permanently.

  46. #46
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    Said before the Pak Eng series that overall Pakistani team are better players of seam, swing bowling specifically and i was ridiculed here. hun araam ay?


    Sarfi as captain'll lead us to glory.Babar'll be our best odi bat & Haris'll be world class in tests

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by SarfiBabarHaris View Post
    Said before the Pak Eng series that overall Pakistani team are better players of seam, swing bowling specifically and i was ridiculed here. hun araam ay?
    We simply do better in England, that too at Lordís and Oval. It happens, it is strange but sports are filled with such strange instances.

    South Africa is a bigger test for batsmen then England, you have swing, seam and bounce which you donít get in England, and they have always done better than us there.

    If we win the series in South Africa, the claim that our batsmen play swing and seam better would have some legs.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Googly View Post
    Umesh, Rahul, Rahane, Karthik and Pandya. Home track bullies of the highest order.
    Seems like you only started following Cricket a few months ago.

    How can a batsman who averages almost 50 outside Asia and lower at home, be called a home track bully ? Pls explain.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abhilash93 View Post
    Seems like you only started following Cricket a few months ago.

    How can a batsman who averages almost 50 outside Asia and lower at home, be called a home track bully ? Pls explain.
    Donít know mate. Help me out. Who u talkin bout? Rahane I guess? If thatís right - I stand corrected and heís not a home bully. However, Babar and Shafiq are better players then Rahane.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    All the nonsense aside, if we are to compare a full strength Indian XI to a full strength Pakistan XI, this is how it will pan out:

    Vijay vs Azhar - Vijay has been a better player than Azhar, and Azhar has been ordinary after his 2016-2017 purple patch. However, maybe Azhar just about gets the nod.

    Rahul vs Imam - Rahul

    Pujara vs Haris - Pujara

    Kohli vs Babar - Kohli

    Rahane vs Shafiq - Rahane

    Saha vs Sarfraz - tie

    This is a tough one. Saha is a brilliant wicket-keeper but a poor batsman, while Sarfraz is average in both departments.

    On turning wickets, Saha brings more value with his superior keeping. On flat wickets, Sarfraz will score more. Hence a tie.

    Pandya vs Fahim/Shadab - Pandya/Shadab

    Pandya is better than than Fahim, but on spinning wickets, Shadab will bring more value.

    Ashwin vs Yasir - Ashwin wins. Both are equally unplayable on turning wickets, but Ashwin has better control and scores a lot more runs.

    Bhuvi vs Abbas - Bhuvi

    Shami vs Amir - Shami

    Bumrah vs Hassan - tough, but perhaps Hassan gets the nod because he is more well-rounded.

    Conclusion:

    India 7-2 Pakistan. Saha vs Sarfraz and Pandya vs Fahim/Shadab is a tie depending on conditions.

    And this is why India is ranked 1 and Pakistan is ranked 7, and this is why India is better than Pakistan everywhere except Lord’s and Oval.

    Maybe in a parallel universe only 2-3 Indian players get into our 7th ranked team, but this world does not exist in a parallel universe.
    While I do agree with this list I do think someone like Abbas would wipe the floor with Bhuvi, who I feel is going down the same path as other Indian quicks.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExplicitAI View Post
    While I do agree with this list I do think someone like Abbas would wipe the floor with Bhuvi, who I feel is going down the same path as other Indian quicks.
    He is the same age as Abbas, with similar skills but more pace, and of course a lot more experience.

    I donít think he is going to lose his way like some Indian pacers of the past. He went through a rut in 2014-2015 but managed to bounce back.

    I would happily swap him with Abbas. However, if Abbas was a few years younger, I would probably have agreed with you.

  52. #52
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    This thread is confusing on so many aspects-

    1. OP started with saying this is a serious thread, not meant for gloating. He presented his opinions and arguments and asked others for theirs.

    But the amount of times he used the terms like- twist in knickers and pants etc whenever someone decided to diasgree with his points. When someone backed their statement with stats, he was being called Mr. Statsman.

    If you’re not ready listen to anything then you could have simply said- whatever I’m saying is universal truth and nobody is allowed to deny it. You youself agreed to biased .

    2. By your own logic India is number one test team and Pakistan is not better than India. But Pakistan’s 9 out of 11 players are better than India. How is this possible? Shouldn’t Pakistan be wiping the floor with India with this logic?

    3. According to you stats and facts don’t matter and Cricket is played with ability and talent. Well we have seen how that worked out for Akmals, Shehzad and countless talented players. Stats never lie. Period.

    This thread seems to be gloating over Pakistan ¬Ďs record in England, however it claims to be otherwise. Its a known fact that Pakistan has been historically better than India in England but Cricket is played in 9 other countries other than England.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExplicitAI View Post
    While I do agree with this list I do think someone like Abbas would wipe the floor with Bhuvi, who I feel is going down the same path as other Indian quicks.
    Bhuvi as a batsmen edges over Abbas overall.He average 28.42 Outside Subcontinent which is better than the likes of Dhawan and Pujara.Bhuvi is not great in Asia and rarely picked so Abbas might become better bowler.
    Last edited by Savage; 11th August 2018 at 08:58.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Sri Lanka is a poor Test side who can only beat teams who are awful against spin. They have never won a Test in India and probably never will.

    Losing 2-0 in the UAE to Sri Lanka is far worse than losing 5-0 in England to England. Just because we are a pathetic Test team and are only better than India at Lordís and Oval does not mean that we have to overrate Sri Lanka.
    I agree Sri Lanka are not a great test side but calling them a minnow is a massive overstatement.

    Lol how?? Losing 2-0 in UAE was very disappointing and probably Pakistan's worst home performance since they lost to England and Sri Lanka in the early-2000s but it still in no way compares to losing 5-0 in England. For one thing, Sri Lanka are actually good against spin and have good spinners so it's not that hard to fathom that they won in the UAE

    Losing 5-0 in England in inexcusable. Don't know whose opinions you're quoting but personally, I think it's just hilarious that your team, the Number One Teamô in the world can barely bat in England but a 7th ranked Pakistan team full of new faces and inconsistent senior players whipped England six ways from Sunday at Lords
    Last edited by RedwoodOriginal; 11th August 2018 at 09:05.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedwoodOriginal View Post
    I agree Sri Lanka are not a great test side but calling them a minnow is a massive overstatement.

    Lol how?? Losing 2-0 in UAE was very disappointing and probably Pakistan's worst home performance since they lost to England and Sri Lanka in the early-2000s but it still in no way compares to losing 5-0 in England. For one thing, Sri Lanka are actually good against spin and have good spinners so it's not that hard to fathom that they won in the UAE

    Losing 5-0 in England in inexcusable. Don't know whose opinions you're quoting but personally, I think it's just hilarious that your team, the Number One Teamô in the world can barely bat in England but a 7th ranked Pakistan team full of new faces and inconsistent senior players whipped England six ways from Sunday at Lords
    TBH, Getting whitewashed at home by another Asian Side is worse than getting whitewashed in England.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedwoodOriginal View Post
    I agree Sri Lanka are not a great test side but calling them a minnow is a massive overstatement.

    Lol how?? Losing 2-0 in UAE was very disappointing and probably Pakistan's worst home performance since they lost to England and Sri Lanka in the early-2000s but it still in no way compares to losing 5-0 in England. For one thing, Sri Lanka are actually good against spin and have good spinners so it's not that hard to fathom that they won in the UAE

    Losing 5-0 in England in inexcusable. Don't know whose opinions you're quoting but personally, I think it's just hilarious that your team, the Number One Teamô in the world can barely bat in England but a 7th ranked Pakistan team full of new faces and inconsistent senior players whipped England six ways from Sunday at Lords
    Certain teams do better in certain countries, but what matters is overall performance.

    Our only claim to fame at the moment is performing in Tests in London, and for us Lordís and Oval maybe the only two venues in the world, but cricket is played outside these two grounds as well.

    Since the Old Trafford Test in 2001, Pakistan have lost every single Test outside the London venues.

    Why Pakistan does better than India in London Tests - especially when the wickets have been usually flat - is difficult to explain, but it is not abnormal in cricket or any sport.

    For example, last year, Bangladesh drew a Test series with Sri Lanka, but Sri Lanka thrashed us. However, if we were to face Bangladesh last year, we would have definitely beaten them.

    Sri Lanka are good against spin, but as an Asian team, Pakistan are also supposed to be good against spin and should not be crumbling like cookies and non-Asian teams.

    Losing 5-0 in England for an Asian team is less shameful than an Asian team losing 2-0 to Sri Lanka, that too in a home series.

    Similarly, for a team like South Africa, losing at home to England is a lot worse than getting hammered in Asia.

    India are better than Pakistan in all venues except Lordís and Oval. They do better in Australia, South Africa, Caribbean and Asia etc., and that is why for around 15 odd years, they have been ranked higher than us about 90% of the time.

    Doing better than India in one or two grounds means absolutely nothing. India would be happy to be worse than Pakistan in London Tests as long as they do better in other countries and achieve higher rankings than Pakistan.

    On the contrary, Pakistan would happily swap places with India, because number one ranking and better record in most countries is a lot better than having a better record at Lordís and Oval only.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    I am sending a link of your thread to the ICC, so that they can give India’s number 1 ranking to Pakistan and Pakistan’s number 7 ranking to India.
    When Pakistan was number 1:

    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Our mediocre team continues to get exposed. Just goes to show how flukey the two wins in England were. Flat pitches and an unsettled English top-order along with injuries to some key players. Thankfully we are not playing India any time soon, they will smash us.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by InziRules View Post
    When Pakistan was number 1:
    Pakistan wasnít a deserving number one team, and they got there for two weeks because of a washed out Test between India and West Indies.

  59. #59
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    One person is over active on the thread but I will take the one and only @MMHS comment on the post.
    Last edited by UN talkz; 11th August 2018 at 13:20.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Pakistan wasn’t a deserving number one team, and they got there for two weeks because of a washed out Test between India and West Indies.
    I am sending a link of your comment to the ICC, so that they can give Pakistan's number 1 ranking then to India and India's ranking to Pakistan.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Googly View Post
    Not meant to gloat or be disrespectful. A serious cricketing question.

    Using cricket logic and no bias- I would suggest :

    Azhar >>>>>> Vijay

    Babar >>>>>>>>>>> Rahane

    Sarfraz > Karthik

    Shadab >> Kuldeep ( need to see how Kuldeep fares in tests)

    Faheem >>> Pandey

    Abbas >>>> Shami

    Amir >>>>> Sharma

    Ok - maybe some bias after all ��

    But honestly- are the above not valid??
    Apart from the highlighted, I agree with them all.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by InziRules View Post
    I am sending a link of your comment to the ICC, so that they can give Pakistan's number 1 ranking then to India and India's ranking to Pakistan.
    India reclaimed the number one ranking soon after. I donít get what you are trying to convey.

  63. #63
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    Azhar Ali will make the Indian team easily.

    If Babar was an Indian he would be a regular feature of the team and would be given a long rope to establish himself.

    Even though I rate Rahane very highly at the moment I'd say Shafiq is the better batsman.

    Abbas walks into the team outside Asia and may make the team in Asia as well.

    Contrary to what most people seem to be saying in this thread Amir is not better than Shami. Amir has been extremely mediocre in tests for a while. Yes Amir has the ability to produce a magical spell once in a while but in between he has mostly been mediocre.

    Bhuvneshwar averages 26 in tests with the ball. Hassan Ali has a lot to prove before you can say he is superior to Bhuvneshwar in Tests. BK beats Amir as well.

    As far as Ishant Sharma goes he is in the side for his height and bounce, he is a unique entity in this regard from both sides. The only other bowler who can serve this role is Shaheen Afridi but he hasn't even played a test match.

    Umesh Yadav is utterly mediocre in my opinion and even Wahab will get into the side ahead of him. Hassan, Amir and Wahab all deserve to play ahead of Umesh.

    It doesn't matter who you rate higher than among Fahim, Pandya and Shadab because Ashwin is better than all 3.

    I like Sarfraz but he hasn't played an innings of substance in Tests for a while. He may be better than Saha and Karthik but one can't make a strong case in his favor. But if he were to regain his past form he would stroll into the side.

  64. #64
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    Pakistan should be very proud.

    They had no business drawing a series with England in England.

    That too after poor series against Aus/Sri Lanka under a new captain, having lost two stalwarts and gelling a new team.

    While they are no contenders for top 2, they are settling in nicely. Plus, they are investing in youth which will pay off.

    India, who have been No 1 deservedly, owe a lot to Kohli's influence. However, the very thing that has made them good can be a major drawback. They need a counter puncher to Kohli in their decision making team - healthy tension. Then they will remain contenders.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlizeeFan View Post
    Why would Amir be in your all teams when he is not even among top 4 pacers currently?

    Shami, Bhuvi, Ishant, Abbas all have done better than him recently. Bhuvi was MoM in only test Ind-Pak have won in last 8 years and yet he won't play in SAF, amazing.

    Shami who has been best pacer overall in last 3 years doesn't even find a place.

    Wondering if you even watch cricket.


    If you select such teams only on stats, then probably StatGuru can do the job better. Also, stats doesn't justify 107 or why IND should fail to win 1st Test at Birmingham.

    If we consider individual incidents (like that J'burg Test), then probably Imam should make the XII for England phase. BK did bowl well on that tricky wicket, but he was dropped for just the previous Test and his overall bowling in AUS wasn't impressive at all. That 2nd group is not for SAF, rather typical AUS/SAF wickets - I don't think that J'burg wicket represented anything close to what AUS/SAF wicket offers, rather it was like an English seemer, and BK did make the ENG squad.

    Shami indeed the closest call and easily could have made the XII in last 2 teams, but he doesn't make it in ENG over Amir, Abbas & BK - StatGuru might say something else. I didn't pick any All-rounder for ENG, therefore 4 pacers can't be selected - one spinner has to be there and depending on the batting line-up (of opponents), one of the spinners must play, hence Shami misses out. He could have made the squad for the other 2 teams, but his AUS tour was poor and at his height he'll struggle in AUS - I went for the younger & faster Hasan, that too as back-up of Bumrah. In IND, pacers role is most with new ball and then may be with old ball, because 3 spinners will bowl 80% of overs - Shami doesn't make it over Amir/Abbas with new ball, or Wahab with old ball.

    PAK players never played in IND, therefore for the 3rd team, you or StatGuru can leave every PAK players - I picked my team on possible best combination, otherwise it was quite easy to drop KL for Azhar in IND. But, I don't think that line-up needs couple of stonewallers for home series, one is enough and Pujara is better than Azhar in that regard in IND, while Dhawan can kill some attack on wickets where he can hit though the line with planted feet.

    Finally, Amir - for a Test team, we need a complete package to lead the attack. You can't pick your bowling spearhead on horses for courses basis - I indeed considered Ishant, and left him out for Amir. Think it this way - does he make it ahead of BK, Amir & Abbas in UK - no; does he make it over Amir, Wahab, Bumrah in AUS/SAF - may be, but all 3 are faster than him and pace is one thing you'll need in typical AUS wickets. Still, you can replace Hasan with Ishant there for his height.

    Finally, in IND - I haven't seen any current PAK player playing in IND and StatGuru is giving blank table, so I went for my judgement and I do believe overall, Amir is the most complete fast bowler of the lot to take the new ball. As mentioned, you can pick Shami over Wahab, but not Abbas - he is brilliant with new ball.

    I don't think number of players (from any country) reflects the overall strength of the team, because impact of one Kohli or couple of Ashwin/Jadeja in IND can't be measured just by numbers. As a 2nd thought, I think anyone can drop Asad from IND squad and replace with Nair and I can bet he'll do better there; but if I exchange Kohli with Haris in between PAK-IND teams, imagine where this No. 1 team'll reach outside Asia. Anyway, these teams were my personal picks, based on what I have seen, otherwise running a StatGuru isn't that tough you know. I have picked Saha as WK for all 3 teams, when IND itself doesn't pick him - so, I guess you have the clue that I don't pick teams on Stat value.

    Hope you are relaxed from your wonders.

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    Lol.Nice joke in the morning itself.A team which got whitewashed by minnow Lankans will be replacing our players.And Babar whose tailenderesque average is worse than even Jadeja, will be replacing Rahane.Yeah, sure.Apart from Azhar and Yasir, none of them are good enough to beat the Indian A team which is playing currently against the SA A team.

  67. #67
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    If team selection is done properly and thats a big ďifĒ Pak has a better test side as it has all basis covered for variety of conditions so I agree with the OP.

    Also a bug plus is that Pak performed the way it did in Eng with a pretty young team this time around in comparison to 2016.

    With the addition of both Faheem and Shadab now we can play variety of combinations and allows us to dont make those silly selection mistakes as did against Lanka.

    Coming to the Indian ranking, even Indians who know cricket will admit that its the result of playing at home on those rank turners other than that I dont see any memorable victories overseas. Yes credit for winning at home but, not a complete team at all. Indian team is going on the higher side and they are not inducting in youngsters fast enough, I would have been worried if I was a supporter.

  68. #68
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    What has cricket come down to.... no disrespect meant but ist pretty disrespectful to test cricket.
    a team ranking one have bowlers averaging of 35+ (After playing for more than a decade) and 40+ (Arguably the best all rounder world has seen) while wicket keeper averages 25 with the bat and thats on top of dropping catches and 33 years of age.

  69. #69
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    Only Amir will make into the Indian team. And maybe Shadab will get into playing XI in dead rubber games when they need to rest Ashwin

  70. #70
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    Amir has been pretty poor after his comeback in Tests.Even Ishant Sharma has better average than him in the same period.
    I would take Azhar and Yasir into our team.Azhar is better than all of our openers and Yasir much better spinner than Kuldeep in Tests at the moment.

  71. #71
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    The "automatic" Test XI choices from Pak would be Azhar Ali/Yasir Shah/Abbas/Sarfraz (SC never had much successful Test wk-batsmen), and from India, Kohli/Ashwin.

    Everyone else is more or less subjective IMO.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan24 View Post
    What has cricket come down to.... no disrespect meant but ist pretty disrespectful to test cricket.
    a team ranking one have bowlers averaging of 35+ (After playing for more than a decade) and 40+ (Arguably the best all rounder world has seen) while wicket keeper averages 25 with the bat and thats on top of dropping catches and 33 years of age.
    And how humiliating is it for you to have strike bowler who averages WORSE than that 35+ bowler after his comeback?

  73. #73
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    All of them.


    Hai yeh Josh-e-Junoon, hai yeh apna yaqeen, ke jo tum mein hai dum, woh kisi mein nahin!

  74. #74
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    A better question to ask is how many of the Indian team would make the Pakistan team

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by AFM View Post
    A better question to ask is how many of the Indian team would make the Pakistan team
    Kohli
    Ashwin

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Googly View Post
    Not meant to gloat or be disrespectful. A serious cricketing question.

    Using cricket logic and no bias- I would suggest :

    Azhar >>>>>> Vijay

    Babar >>>>>>>>>>> Rahane

    Sarfraz > Karthik

    Shadab >> Kuldeep ( need to see how Kuldeep fares in tests)

    Faheem >>> Pandey

    Abbas >>>> Shami

    Amir >>>>> Sharma

    Ok - maybe some bias after all 😀

    But honestly- are the above not valid??



    Stopped reading after babar😂

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Certain teams do better in certain countries, but what matters is overall performance.

    Our only claim to fame at the moment is performing in Tests in London, and for us Lordís and Oval maybe the only two venues in the world, but cricket is played outside these two grounds as well.

    Since the Old Trafford Test in 2001, Pakistan have lost every single Test outside the London venues.

    Why Pakistan does better than India in London Tests - especially when the wickets have been usually flat - is difficult to explain, but it is not abnormal in cricket or any sport.

    For example, last year, Bangladesh drew a Test series with Sri Lanka, but Sri Lanka thrashed us. However, if we were to face Bangladesh last year, we would have definitely beaten them.

    Sri Lanka are good against spin, but as an Asian team, Pakistan are also supposed to be good against spin and should not be crumbling like cookies and non-Asian teams.

    Losing 5-0 in England for an Asian team is less shameful than an Asian team losing 2-0 to Sri Lanka, that too in a home series.

    Similarly, for a team like South Africa, losing at home to England is a lot worse than getting hammered in Asia.

    India are better than Pakistan in all venues except Lordís and Oval. They do better in Australia, South Africa, Caribbean and Asia etc., and that is why for around 15 odd years, they have been ranked higher than us about 90% of the time.

    Doing better than India in one or two grounds means absolutely nothing. India would be happy to be worse than Pakistan in London Tests as long as they do better in other countries and achieve higher rankings than Pakistan.

    On the contrary, Pakistan would happily swap places with India, because number one ranking and better record in most countries is a lot better than having a better record at Lordís and Oval only.
    I never said we are better than India but you are really overrating this Indian team. The fact of the matter is that despite being number one they haven't even drawn a series in SENA under Kohli. Yes, they were competitive in South Africa and pulled off a good win in the last test. And yes, they were competitive in Australia and drew two matches but at the end of the day those are all lost series. They couldn't even win in New Zealand the last time they toured and seem to be heading for another series defeat in England. India is number one because they are the best team in their own conditions and played more tests at home in 2016 than Pakistan do in the entire year. The other supposedly top teams are just as bad away from home and probably not as ruthless at home which is why they aren't number one. In reality, India are just the number one test team in home-conditions and their test team in full of players who will always be liabilities in overseas conditions.

    The mark of a true No.1 test side is winning in alien conditions. The South Africa team from 2007-14 did that, the English team from the 2010s did that and the Australian side from the 2000s obviously did that.

    And about the grounds thing. LOL. When did India last win a test match on these grounds they are better than Pakistan on? 2007? And Pakistan doing well in London tests in not meaningless because they are actual test matches, not the imaginary ones that India wins

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Yes, this is clearly devoid of any bias. You forgot to mention that Haris is better than Kohli, our friends here are adamant that the former is the best player of swing and seam in Asia.
    Your favorite class A Indian team is being humiliated on England tour.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dingolfy View Post
    And how humiliating is it for you to have strike bowler who averages WORSE than that 35+ bowler after his comeback?
    I am pretty sure almost all these Indian bowlers would have averaged 50 plus in certain periods.

    Bas patch is part and parcel of any playerís career.

    Someone who knows a bit about cricket can certainly see the gulf of difference in the class. Even Amirís poor patch is better than the purple patch of some bowlers.
    Last edited by Titan24; 11th August 2018 at 19:26.

  80. #80
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    And just to tell that we are comparing a team with team where all players are experienced and are expected to be at their peak while Pakistanís team is mistly pretty young at the moment.

    Disagreements aside, even if we are comparing these two teams means that how much this Indian test team is lacking.


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