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  1. #1
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    US cuts military training programmes with Pakistan as Donald Trump cracks down

    WASHINGTON: United States (US) President Donald Trump’s administration has quietly started cutting scores of Pakistani officers from coveted training and educational programmes that have been a hallmark of bilateral military relations for more than a decade, officials say.

    The move, which has not been previously reported, is one of the first known impacts from Trump’s decision this year to suspend US security assistance to Pakistan to compel it to crack down on militants.

    The Pentagon and the Pakistan Army did not comment directly on the decision or the internal deliberations, but officials from both countries privately criticised the move. US officials, speaking to Reuters on the condition of anonymity, said they were worried the decision could undermine a key trust-building measure.

    Pakistani officials warned it could push their military to further look to China or Russia for leadership training. The effective suspension of Pakistan from the US government’s International Military Education and Training program (IMET) will close off places that had been set aside for 66 Pakistani officers this year, a State Department spokesperson told Reuters.

    The places will either be unfilled or given to officers from other countries. Dan Feldman, a former US special representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan, called the move “very short-sighted and myopic”. “This will have lasting negative impacts limiting the bilateral relationship well into the future,” Feldman told Reuters.

    The State Department spokesperson, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said the IMET cancellations were valued at $2.41 million so far. At least two other programmes have also been affected, the spokesperson said. It is unclear precisely what level of military cooperation still continues outside the IMET programme, beyond the top-level contacts between US and Pakistani military leaders.

    The US military has traditionally sought to shield such educational programmes from political tensions, arguing that the ties built by bringing foreign military officers to the United States pay long-term dividends. For example, the US Army’s War College in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, which would normally have two Pakistani military officers per year, boasts graduates including Lieutenant General Naveed Mukhtar, the Director-General Inter-Services Intelligence agency (ISI).

    The War College, the US Army’s premier school for foreign officers, says it has hosted 37 participants from Pakistan over the past several decades. It will have no Pakistani students in the upcoming academic year, a spokeswoman said. Pakistan has also been removed from programmes at the US Naval War College, Naval Staff College and courses including cybersecurity studies.

    “Lies and deceit”

    In his first tweet of 2018, Trump slammed Pakistan, saying the country has rewarded past US aid with “nothing but lies and deceit.”

    Washington announced plans in January to suspend up to roughly $2 billion in US security assistance to Pakistan. But weeks later, Pakistan’s foreign secretary was quoted by local media saying that Islamabad had been told the US would continue funding IMET programs. Officially allies in fighting terrorism, Pakistan and the United States have a complicated relationship, bound by Washington’s dependence on Pakistan to supply its troops in Afghanistan but plagued by accusations Islamabad is playing a double game.

    Current and former US officials said Defense Secretary Jim Mattis argued against excluding Pakistani officers from IMET courses. “I am shocked… We worked so hard for this to be the one thing that got saved,” said a former US defence official, who was involved in the conversations.

    The Pentagon declined to comment on internal government discussions, but Dana White, a Pentagon spokesperson, said Mattis
    long believed in the value of the IMET programme as a way to build relations between foreign militaries. Senator Mushahid Hussain, chairman of the Senate Foreign Affairs Committee, told Reuters that a US decision to cut off such exchanges would be counter-productive and push Pakistan’s military towards other countries.

    “It is one of those silly, punitive measures that they have deployed,” said Hussain. Russia and Pakistan signed an agreement earlier this week that would allow for Pakistani military officers to train at Russian institutes.

    IMET courses have been able to withstand poor relations between the two countries in the past, even after al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden was killed in a US Navy SEAL raid in the town of Abbottabad in 2011. A NATO helicopter raid killed 28 Pakistani troops later that year in a friendly fire incident on the Afghan-Pakistan border.

    Feldman said that after the raid, when relations were at a low point, the US limited large security assistance items, but made active efforts to continue the IMET programme.

    Unintended Consequence

    In the 1990’s former U.S. President George H.W. Bush refused to certify that Pakistan did not have nuclear weapons, triggering the so-called “Pressler Amendment” that required cutting off all military assistance. That included IMET courses. “The unintended consequence was we didn’t know a decade of the Pakistani military leadership as well, and therefore couldn’t engage as effectively with them when we needed to,” Feldman said.

    Mattis, in private discussions within the government, had warned that excluding Pakistani officers from IMET courses could contribute to a similar situation in years to come, the former US defence official said. Pakistan had been the largest recipient of IMET between 2003 and 2017, according to the Security Assistance Monitor which tracks US assistance.

    “You can advocate for cutting off everything else and this was the one thing we were not supposed to touch,” the former official said.

    https://tribune.com.pk/story/1777725...-trump-cracks/

  2. #2
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    Sad!


    "Be the best version of yourself"

  3. #3
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    Some Trump’s decisions are not in line with anything his cabinet advises... it’s almost like he listens to foxnews and does what they tell him to do.

  4. #4
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    Pentagon is against this decision but well Trump listens to no one.


    TalentSpotterPk: I pray PanamaLeak sink Sharif ship forever we dont want this pseudo democracy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie View Post
    Some Trump’s decisions are not in line with anything his cabinet advises... it’s almost like he listens to foxnews and does what they tell him to do.
    How does the theory that all US presidents are puppets of the deep state hold in Trump's case?

  6. #6
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    Pakistan should start some drills with Russians and Chinese.

  7. #7
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    It’s hard to trust Pakistan Military Establishment. Who can never make country secure with all the budget and money flowing into them for decades. Only thing they are strengthening with time is how to rule the country one way or the other...

    They have find new creditor in China, who is also complaining about something (law and order) that is their main business to sell public, you need pal

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by yasir View Post
    It’s hard to trust Pakistan Military Establishment. Who can never make country secure with all the budget and money flowing into them for decades. Only thing they are strengthening with time is how to rule the country one way or the other...

    They have find new creditor in China, who is also complaining about something (law and order) that is their main business to sell public, you need pal
    Yes its much easier to trust the democracy, where billionaire feudal lords get elected to create even more billions at the expense of the public that blindly vote for them.

    In reality, both the civilian and the army has failed Pakistan.

    To blame only the military or to blame only the civilian rule is only half the truth.

  9. #9
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    “It is one of those silly, punitive measures that they have deployed,” said Hussain. Russia and Pakistan signed an agreement earlier this week that would allow for Pakistani military officers to train at Russian institutes.

    Great news and good to hear.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by yasir View Post
    It’s hard to trust Pakistan Military Establishment. Who can never make country secure with all the budget and money flowing into them for decades. Only thing they are strengthening with time is how to rule the country one way or the other...

    They have find new creditor in China, who is also complaining about something (law and order) that is their main business to sell public, you need pal
    I rather trust a military who live and work for Pakistan in Pakistan then someone whose skin color would change if there was no tan machine from space. :spaceforce.

    And most of the time you have no idea what you are talking.

    At least try to be quality instead of quantity when it comes to bashing Pakistan
    Last edited by slipcatch; 11th August 2018 at 13:03.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackanhyellow View Post
    Yes its much easier to trust the democracy, where billionaire feudal lords get elected to create even more billions at the expense of the public that blindly vote for them.

    In reality, both the civilian and the army has failed Pakistan.

    To blame only the military or to blame only the civilian rule is only half the truth.
    Damage done by Military is far greater, you can only done damage from position of strength not weakness....political corruption is all time high by tier 2 politicians, who are part of military democracy, calling them politicians is disservice to that profession. Military is too powerful to let politicians thrive, it’s a rotten env, that has to be fixed first. I see people don’t have any epitite to go after the ones who have created and protected this rotten culture. Pakistan has no future with this culture as mainstream...

    Pakistan has been marching in direction, that is set and steer by Military, politicians has no say in it. There is no real debate about what Pakistan should aspire to do, most people get emotional rather than rational.... Without using rational brain, nobody can make progress in any thing...

    Military ******* should not complain about the condition of Pakistan, this happens when you invest so heavily on boots. We will always be begging, selling law and order to others. I don’t get how people satisfied with such pathetic vision of the country 👺👺👺
    Last edited by yasir; 11th August 2018 at 13:37.

  12. #12
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    US's beef with Pakistan started with Shakeel Afridi and Pak military's refusal to release him. This is costing the country alot when it cannot afford it. What is Shakeel worth anyways?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjahmed23 View Post
    US's beef with Pakistan started with Shakeel Afridi and Pak military's refusal to release him. This is costing the country alot when it cannot afford it. What is Shakeel worth anyways?
    We give them Shakil then they will want something else. No more to "do more", enough is enough. The American's can't be trusted. In the long run minimising relations with them will benefit Pak whilst they continue suffering in Afghanistan. Trump is a business man not a politician, he knows nothing about diplomacy or foreign relations. To the military haters here it is coz of them that terrorism in Pak has been reduced significantly. Don't attack them unless you are willing to take bullet's on the chest. The enemies of Pakistan have always wanted a war between the people and the military, if our politicians were sensible and loyal to the country the military would not interfere in affairs. Other country's spend far more on defence then the Pak military does yet I have never heard the likes of the American people complain about it.


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjahmed23 View Post
    US's beef with Pakistan started with Shakeel Afridi and Pak military's refusal to release him. This is costing the country alot when it cannot afford it. What is Shakeel worth anyways?
    Find another way.
    Dont depend on US. As simple as that. I know its tough , not simple by any means. But it has to be done. Perhaps find a way to arm twist US.

    Syrian economy weakened but surived years of war because it didnt depend on US. Turkish economy is in crisis after 1 tweet by US Prez. Do not depend or trust US.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madplayer View Post
    Find another way.
    Dont depend on US. As simple as that. I know its tough , not simple by any means. But it has to be done. Perhaps find a way to arm twist US.

    Syrian economy weakened but surived years of war because it didnt depend on US. Turkish economy is in crisis after 1 tweet by US Prez. Do not depend or trust US.
    That is not feasible unless you want Pakistan to turn into North Korea or Iran. What other way? go to China for help? China cannot even help itself right now with the US trade war.

  16. #16
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    Current and former US officials said Defense Secretary Jim Mattis argued against excluding Pakistani officers from IMET courses. “I am shocked… We worked so hard for this to be the one thing that got saved,” said a former US defence official, who was involved in the conversations.
    So the Defence Secretary has no say in matters related to the military? Surely, other than the President himself, the Defence Secretary has the most say in matters such as these? And since I doubt that even President Trump would be looking into such level of details, such as two reserved places for the training of Pakistani military officers, this sounds like a very poor piece of journalism.

    I don't doubt that this program has been cut, but "The State Department spokesperson, speaking on the condition of anonymity" sounds like a 5 years olds storybook journalism.


    “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule”

  17. #17
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    ISLAMABAD: Pakistani military officers will receive training in Russian Federation military institutes under a recent agreement signed between the two countries.

    The deal underscores Pakistan’s increasing reliance on Russia for its military needs amid strained relations with the US. It was signed earlier this week during a visit by Russian Deputy Defence Minister Col Gen Alexander Fomin.

    The agreement comes as local media reported the US has stopped financing military training in the US for Pakistani soldiers — a step that Senator Mushahid Hussain Sayed called “wrong and counterproductive.”

    Mr Hussain, chairman of the Foreign Affairs committee, said the US is repeating past mistakes through failed policy of trying to bully and browbeat Pakistan with such short-sighted sanctions.

    https://www.dawn.com/news/1426557/mi...ning-in-russia

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by PakLFC View Post
    We give them Shakil then they will want something else. No more to "do more", enough is enough. The American's can't be trusted. In the long run minimising relations with them will benefit Pak whilst they continue suffering in Afghanistan. Trump is a business man not a politician, he knows nothing about diplomacy or foreign relations. To the military haters here it is coz of them that terrorism in Pak has been reduced significantly. Don't attack them unless you are willing to take bullet's on the chest. The enemies of Pakistan have always wanted a war between the people and the military, if our politicians were sensible and loyal to the country the military would not interfere in affairs. Other country's spend far more on defence then the Pak military does yet I have never heard the likes of the American people complain about it.
    This sounds like a gareeb ka bacha complaining about things celebrity kids get on their birthday. America can afford all that, Pakistan cannot.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arham_PakFan View Post
    ISLAMABAD: Pakistani military officers will receive training in Russian Federation military institutes under a recent agreement signed between the two countries.

    The deal underscores Pakistan’s increasing reliance on Russia for its military needs amid strained relations with the US. It was signed earlier this week during a visit by Russian Deputy Defence Minister Col Gen Alexander Fomin.

    The agreement comes as local media reported the US has stopped financing military training in the US for Pakistani soldiers — a step that Senator Mushahid Hussain Sayed called “wrong and counterproductive.”

    Mr Hussain, chairman of the Foreign Affairs committee, said the US is repeating past mistakes through failed policy of trying to bully and browbeat Pakistan with such short-sighted sanctions.

    https://www.dawn.com/news/1426557/mi...ning-in-russia
    So Trump's new policy on Pakistan is resulting in Pakistan falling into the arms of Russia. You reckon Trump's Russian handlers have instructed Trump to do this under Putin's orders? And Trump's doing the same to Turkey.


    “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule”

  20. #20
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    Pakistan is ditching USA assuming the backing of China & Russia. This assumption is misplaced.

    No one can substitute USA when it comes to bailing Pakistan through handouts, aid and IMF loans. The results will be obvious in the very short term. Either by:
    - falling in line/concessions for US (most likely)
    - cuts in govt spending (likely)
    - cuts in defence spending (unlikely)
    - increased deficits -> weaker rupee -> inflation -> ... (very likely)

    As a trailer, look what they did to Turkey in a matter of days!
    Last edited by bond; 12th August 2018 at 12:12.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackShadow View Post
    This sounds like a gareeb ka bacha complaining about things celebrity kids get on their birthday. America can afford all that, Pakistan cannot.
    On the other hand you sound like an American boot licker always eager to impress your masters and akka for some bread crumbs in return! When it comes to protecting your country everything is affordable. Learn from the Prophet(saw) if you are Muslim.


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by PakLFC View Post
    On the other hand you sound like an American boot licker always eager to impress your masters and akka for some bread crumbs in return! When it comes to protecting your country everything is affordable. Learn from the Prophet(saw) if you are Muslim.
    I can understand how decades of being used and abused by global powers may have led to this "master-slave" relationship look quite natural to Pakistanis, but this is not how international relations work today, not for India at least.

    Btw, what does Pakistan need protection from? When was the last time a country attacked you guys?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackShadow View Post
    I can understand how decades of being used and abused by global powers may have led to this "master-slave" relationship look quite natural to Pakistanis, but this is not how international relations work today, not for India at least.

    Btw, what does Pakistan need protection from? When was the last time a country attacked you guys?
    We are talking of Pak here so leave India out! You are right that Pak has been used which is why we have to end this dependency on America! Better to die with dignity then live as slaves. It is not as if India doesn't have problems with other countries or internal ones for that matter. I would say America bombing FATA over the years with Zardari and Sharif's blessings is being attacked! The constant tension with India at the border is also a silent war that can explode at any time. International relations are about self respect, I do not blame outsiders when a country does not respect itself. It is a give and take relationship for sure. So yes we have to end such one sided relationships, permanently.


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

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    Pakistan pivots toward Putin's Russia after Trump gets tough

    Russia and Pakistan were sworn enemies during the Cold War, when Pakistan and CIA-backed guerrillas defeated the Soviet Red Army in Afghanistan.

    Nuclear-armed Pakistan is embracing Cold War-foe Russia amid unraveling ties with Washington.

    The Trump administration has penalized Islamabad for failing to rein in militants waging war on the U.S.-backed government in neighboring Afghanistan. American military aid to Pakistan was suspended earlier this year.

    Ali J. Siddiqui, Pakistan's ambassador to the U.S., last week confirmed to NBC News that the U.S. had also axed a long-standing military training program between the countries. Many of Pakistan’s top military commanders participated in the program, which also proved to be a useful back channel for American diplomats. A total of 66 Pakistani officers were due to be involved this year.

    Meanwhile, the Kremlin’s recent charm offensive has included the signing of a military cooperation pact, helicopter deliveries and officer training exercises. A Russian-language radio service, Dispatch News Desk, has also started broadcasting in Pakistan.

    Russia and Pakistan were sworn enemies during the Cold War, when Pakistan and CIA-backed guerrillas defeated the Soviet Red Army in Afghanistan in the 1980s.

    Shehzad Chaudhry, a retired Pakistani military air vice marshal and former diplomat, said "a new relationship is very much on the cards" between the former foes.

    “With the Russians and the Pakistanis, it’s a big strategic change," he added.

    Kamal Alam, a Pakistan and Middle East expert at Royal United Services Institute, a London think tank, said the Trump administration’s approach was viewed as a source of frustration in Islamabad.

    Alam added that Pakistan's powerful military appeared to have "had enough of America’s blackmailing, threats and blockage of sales."

    While Russia-Pakistan strategic dialogue, training and military sales began in earnest around a decade ago, the Trump administration’s apparent antipathy along with the victory of cricket-icon-turned-anti-corruption crusader Imran Khan in last month's election appear to have provided an opportunity for Moscow to significantly ramp up its influence in the country. Khan took office as prime minister on Saturday.

    Russia was among the first to send top military brass to Pakistan after Khan's election win, with Deputy Defense Minister Alexander Fomin being dispatched to discuss security cooperation.

    Russia also beat the U.S. in terms of congratulating Khan, with the country’s ambassador arriving at the prime minister-elect’s residence to give his regards in person.

    “This is a mixture of timing, exhaustion of patience with Washington and a culmination of what began earlier with [Russian] training, military sales and intel sharing,” Alam said.

    The blossoming of Pakistan-Russia relations has also partially been a response to the Trump administration’s increasing closeness with Prime Minister Narendra Modi in arch-rival India. India has traditionally been Russia’s main South Asian partner.

    “With the Indians and the U.S. getting closer, the Russians have found space to break away ... and begin to exercise a little more freedom with countries like Pakistan,” said Chaudhry, the retired air marshal who previously served as Pakistani ambassador to Sri Lanka.

    Chaudhry believes the perceived U.S. retreat is creating space for other countries including China, Iran and Turkey to also gain influence in the region.

    Such changes could have a big effect on the 17-year-old war in Afghanistan. Trump has grown increasingly frustrated with the conflict, prompting U.S. peace talks with the Taliban.

    “Afghanistan will be influenced by these powers as well. It’s not just about a helicopter here or a tank there," Chaudhry said. "This new arrangement, not just between Pakistan and Russia, but this entire bloc of countries, has got strategic possibilities, because the center of gravity, globally and economically is shifting east."

    But Siddiqui, the ambassador, insisted it was too early to write off the relationship.

    "Its importance has been proven over decades," he said. "We are working on fixing it."

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/p...-tough-n901536

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    More important to have good relations with your neighbours and even Russia is very close. USA should be left once and for all. They have a short-sighted clown as President and his stupid decisions will hurt them more in the longer run.


    Ki Mohammad (saw) sey wafa tu ney tou hum terey hain
    Yeh jahaan cheez kya hai Loh-o-Qalam tere hain

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    pentagon is not happy with this decision. lol


    The Griffins ....

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by IAJ View Post
    More important to have good relations with your neighbours and even Russia is very close. USA should be left once and for all. They have a short-sighted clown as President and his stupid decisions will hurt them more in the longer run.
    I think regardless of who is the U.S President, in the age of globalisation, American big business has decided that India, being the far biggest economy, with over six times the population of Pakistan (hence potentially six times more customers for American goods and services) is where American big business can make the most profits when it comes to a choice between Pakistan or India.

    At the same times, Russia also now realises that for very similar reasons, when it comes to choosing between trading with and selling to the American market versus the same for Russia, Indians will now always choose the USA over Russia.

    Hence, with India slowly parting with Russia in favour of the USA, and the USA parting with Pakistan in favour of India, it's only logical that Russia and Pakistan turn to each other.


    “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule”

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    Qureshi stresses need to bridge trust deficit between Pakistan and United States

    Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi on Tuesday stressed the need to bridge the existing trust deficit between Pakistan and the United States, as both the countries were important for each other.

    He said, “There is a long history of diplomatic relations between Pakistan and America. There have been ups and downs [in bilateral ties].”

    While talking to media persons in Multan, the newly appointed foreign minister recalled that the US had imposed sanctions on Pakistan at a time when “we have been the most allied of the allies”.

    The minister said US Secretary of State Michael Richard Pompeo would visit Pakistan soon.

    “Let's see how it proceeds from there,” he said, adding that the US wants peace in Afghanistan which was also Pakistan's wish.

    Pakistan has sacrificed a lot in the “war against terrorism” and has always stood by the US, Qureshi maintained.

    To a question about Indian ceasefire violations along the Line of Control, Qureshi said the violations were not in favour of both the countries. Confidence building measures (CBMs) existed at the LoC regarding the ceasefire, which should be observed.

    “Is there any solution to issues faced by the two countries, other than holding dialogues?” he questioned. Pakistan and India were facing water, poverty and climatic changes issues which had created troubles for them.

    “If we don't resolve the core issues, including Kashmir, who else will solve it,” Qureshi said, adding that India should review its “aggressive policies”.

    To another question about cricketer Navjot Sidhu's visit to Pakistan and India's reaction, the foreign minister said the renowned Indian player visited Pakistan on the invitation of Prime Minister Imran Khan.

    The cricketer talked of the immeasurable love and respect extended by the people of Pakistan before his departure to India.

    https://www.dawn.com/news/1428484/qu...-united-states


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  29. #29
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    Pretty apt that I paste this thread here:

    Why didn't Pakistan ally with the Soviet Union after independence?

    What could have been.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    Pretty apt that I paste this thread here:

    Why didn't Pakistan ally with the Soviet Union after independence?

    What could have been.
    I think you know what happened to India in the 90s when the Soviet Union imploded, the times were so critical that the late Vajpayee sought "peace" with Pak so it could serve as medium to make contacts with China or something.

    And even when the Soviet Union was still there, it's foreign policy wasn't always admirable (Afghanistan, which created the on-going mess, etc)

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by enkidu_ View Post
    I think you know what happened to India in the 90s when the Soviet Union imploded, the times were so critical that the late Vajpayee sought "peace" with Pak so it could serve as medium to make contacts with China or something.
    I think you have confused either the timelines, or Prime Ministers, or both.

    Vajpayee's tenure ran from 1999 - 2004. The Soviet Union was ancient history by this time, and we were already closer to the US. Vajpayee did push for peace with Pakistan, but was rewarded with Kargil a few short weeks later - nothing to do with the Soviet Union. Shortly after that, the War on Terror occupied headlines in Pakistan.

    Our relationship with China has stayed the same through this period.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    Pretty apt that I paste this thread here:

    Why didn't Pakistan ally with the Soviet Union after independence?

    What could have been.
    Let's see how Turkey's attempts to shift alliance from the US to Russia turns out before we start looking too wistfully. Already the Americans are turning the screw and Turkey's currency is being hammered.


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    Let's see how Turkey's attempts to shift alliance from the US to Russia turns out before we start looking too wistfully. Already the Americans are turning the screw and Turkey's currency is being hammered.
    Turkey might continue to be hammered, and that is not the analogy I was looking for. My point is if Pakistan had nothing to do with the USA in the first place and tilted to the Soviet Union up front they would be in a much better place today.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    I think you have confused either the timelines, or Prime Ministers, or both.

    Vajpayee's tenure ran from 1999 - 2004. The Soviet Union was ancient history by this time, and we were already closer to the US. Vajpayee did push for peace with Pakistan, but was rewarded with Kargil a few short weeks later - nothing to do with the Soviet Union. Shortly after that, the War on Terror occupied headlines in Pakistan.

    Our relationship with China has stayed the same through this period.
    The only reason Vajpayee sought "peace" with Pak was because after the Pokhran-II nuclear tests (1998) the US (and thus by default pretty much the world) put sanctions on India. Vajpayee, by having a leverage with China, itself skeptical of the nuclear tests that it interpreted as a direct response to its own nuclear adventures. That's the reason External affairs minister Jaswant Singh visited China soon after.

    And it has all to due with the Soviet Union because India sacrificed deeper relations with US/China for them, but when they imploded, they found themselves internationally isolated from the geopolitical powers.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    Turkey might continue to be hammered, and that is not the analogy I was looking for. My point is if Pakistan had nothing to do with the USA in the first place and tilted to the Soviet Union up front they would be in a much better place today.
    That is assuming that USA would have no interest in the region if Pakistan cozied up with Russia, which let's be fair, was the biggest enemy of the west at the time. Sylvester Stallone's Rambo III didn't materialise out of nowhere. Russia-friendly nations are all being targeted even now when low level hostilities have been resumed. Even India is trying to get onside with Uncle Sam rather than tilt too far towards old ally Russia.


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    Turkey might continue to be hammered, and that is not the analogy I was looking for. My point is if Pakistan had nothing to do with the USA in the first place and tilted to the Soviet Union up front they would be in a much better place today.
    The Soviet Union was an economic and political basket-case post 1947 - why would the Pakistanis have wanted to ally with them over the USA? Even India didn't fully jump into the Soviet camp until the mid to late 60s.

    And the proof is in the pudding - Pakistan were doing really well economically, far better than India, until Bhutto's socialism and Zia's religious fanaticism arrived.

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    Pakistan rejects ‘factually incorrect’ US statement on PM Imran-Pompeo phone call

    The Pakistan Foreign Office on Thursday rejected the statement by the US State Department regarding contents of a phone call between US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and Prime Minister Imran Khan earlier today.

    “Pakistan takes exception to the factually incorrect statement issued by US State Dept on today’s phone call between PM Khan & Sec Pompeo. There was no mention at all in the conversation about terrorists operating in Pakistan,” FO Spokespeson Dr Faisal tweeted.

    He also asked the US to “immediately correct” the statement.

    Earlier today, the US State Department in a released a statement which stated: “Secretary Michael R. Pompeo spoke today with Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan and wished him success. Secretary Pompeo expressed his willingness to work with the new government towards a productive bilateral relationship. Secretary Pompeo raised the importance of Pakistan taking decisive action against all terrorists operating in Pakistan and its vital role in promoting the Afghan peace process.”

    Pompeo is expected to visit Pakistan early next month to meet with the newly-elected Prime Minister Imran Khan, Geo News reported, citing international media outlets.

    Pompeo, an official of the US President Donald Trump's administration, will reportedly arrive in Islamabad on September 5 for a brief stay while en route to India.

    Pompeo and PM Khan are likely to discuss bilateral relations and matters of mutual interest during their meeting before the former leaves for New Delhi on September 6.

    It is also expected that Pompeo, who would become the first foreign diplomat to meet Pakistan's new PM, may talk the Afghan peace process as well.

    According to an international publication, "the Pompeo mission will also help Washington and New Delhi coordinate their objectives and mission in Afghanistan"

    https://www.geo.tv/latest/208417-pak...peo-phone-call


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