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Thread: Baqra Eid 2018

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  1. #1
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    Baqra Eid 2018

    In Saudi Arabia the moon for Zilhajj has been spotted.

    The moon is expected to be spotted today in Pakistan.

    People are buying animals with more urgency now.The prices have been sky high and are rising with each year.30,000 for a goat is nothing special now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah719 View Post



    Disgusting.What is the point of such a qurbani..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arham_PakFan View Post
    Disgusting.What is the point of such a qurbani..
    Likelihood is that there will be no Qurbani, they will just sell the animal.

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    The Central Ruet-e-Hilal Committee announced on Monday that the Zil-Hajj moon has been sighted, adding that Eid-ul-Azha in Pakistan will be observed on August 22.

    The announcement was made after a meeting of the six-member committee of the Central Ruet-e-Hilal Committee.

    The Zil-Hajj moon “will be born on Saturday afternoon” and will be visible on Sunday evening, the Met had stated on August 10.

    In Saudi Arabia, the moon was sighted Saturday evening, with the Supreme Court of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia announcing Eid-ul-Azha on August 21.

    Eid-ul-Azha is celebrated on the 10th day of Zil-Hajj, which is the last month of the Islamic calendar and marks the start of the Hajj pilgrimage.

    It commemorates Prophet Ibrahim's (AS) willingness to sacrifice his son to show obedience to God.

    https://www.geo.tv/latest/207123-rue...-zil-hajj-moon

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    My family doing eid on wednesday, doing a dinner at one of my relatives house in the evening but I will not be able to go unfortunately as I will have work then

  8. #8
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    Mubarak to all who are celebrating today


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    Eid Mubarak to all those who are celebrating Eid today.

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    Eid Mubarak.

  11. #11
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    I live in Birmingham. I'm celebrating Eid today like most of the people I know. My neighbours are celebrating tomorrow.

    I really just don't get it, why this keeps happening every single year.

  12. #12
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    When is it in Pakistan?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    When is it in Pakistan?
    Tomorrow.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Tomorrow.
    Ok.So same as in India.

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    Eid Mubarak

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    We will be shedding blood of millions of livestock over the next three days in the name of God, May He accept our offerings.

    I have a small request for people to consider - please keep small children and toddlers away from witnessing this barbaric act of slaughter.

    I donít think it is good for their mental health. it could stunt their mental growth which might affect them throughout their lives, and they may not even be consciously aware of it.

    The scene when the qurbani happens is not very pleasant one. Bearded guys with knives in their hands dripping blood from both hands, with their clothes soaking in blood as well, and the animals fighting for their lives in agonizing pain.

    Slaughtering animals should be limited to slaughter houses and not homes.

    This tradition of bringing goats, sheep, cows, buffalos and even camels (if you are a big champion of Islam) to your house with a bearded man putting his blood-soaked feet on the throats of the poor animals and a freshly sharpened knife in his mouth should be done away with.

    It has no place in the civilized world. Simply give money to the authorities who will deliver the meat to your house. There is no purpose in butchering animals and having bloodshed in your home.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    We will be shedding blood of millions of livestock over the next three days in the name of God, May He accept our offerings.

    I have a small request for people to consider - please keep small children and toddlers away from witnessing this barbaric act of slaughter.

    I don’t think it is good for their mental health. it could stunt their mental growth which might affect them throughout their lives, and they may not even be consciously aware of it.

    The scene when the qurbani happens is not very pleasant one. Bearded guys with knives in their hands dripping blood from both hands, with their clothes soaking in blood as well, and the animals fighting for their lives in agonizing pain.

    Slaughtering animals should be limited to slaughter houses and not homes.

    This tradition of bringing goats, sheep, cows, buffalos and even camels (if you are a big champion of Islam) to your house with a bearded man putting his blood-soaked feet on the throats of the poor animals and a freshly sharpened knife in his mouth should be done away with.

    It has no place in the civilized world. Simply give money to the authorities who will deliver the meat to your house. There is no purpose in butchering animals and having bloodshed in your home.
    You are right, but what could we do. It is culture.

    The only reason why the tradition of Bakra Eid motivates other to do qurbani is the blood shedding of animals. Its part of the essence to the eid day.

    When i was i little i didn't know much about eid, but when i came to Pakistan and saw how it was celebrated with slaughtering happening outside thats when i got the eid feeling.

    There are some good things and bad things about how this day is celebrated.

    If we start using slaughter houses then the eid in Pakistan won't have the same essence to it. It wont create that same mahool


    "Life is Pain"
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post
    You are right, but what could we do. It is culture.

    The only reason why the tradition of Bakra Eid motivates other to do qurbani is the blood shedding of animals. Its part of the essence to the eid day.

    When i was i little i didn't know much about eid, but when i came to Pakistan and saw how it was celebrated with slaughtering happening outside thats when i got the eid feeling.

    There are some good things and bad things about how this day is celebrated.

    If we start using slaughter houses then the eid in Pakistan won't have the same essence to it. It wont create that same mahool
    Yes that is true, and it is very disturbing. Our people take pleasure in seeing animals butchered in front of their eyes in a very raw manner.

    There is no technology involved of any of the modern techniques that are deployed in developed countries to kill the animals. It is done in an extremely barbaric way that has been in practice for thousands of years, dating back to the time when man started to breed and farm.

    It has become an essential part of Eid and has become part of the fun, but I am still hopeful that it will become an extinct ritual over the generations. At some point, it has to end.

    But one thing that can be implemented without any problem is ensuring that young children are not exposed to this act.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Yes that is true, and it is very disturbing. Our people take pleasure in seeing animals butchered in front of their eyes in a very raw manner.

    There is no technology involved of any of the modern techniques that are deployed in developed countries to kill the animals. It is done in an extremely barbaric way that has been in practice for thousands of years, dating back to the time when man started to breed and farm.

    It has become an essential part of Eid and has become part of the fun, but I am still hopeful that it will become an extinct ritual over the generations. At some point, it has to end.

    But one thing that can be implemented without any problem is ensuring that young children are not exposed to this act.
    To be honest, you shouldn't expect logical thinking from Pakistani's. Majority of Pakistani men are dumb. Plain and simple.


    Im saying this because i live in a city where if you dont partake in such acts you will be called mummy daddy, or burger bacha. People here laugh at your politeness.

    so obviously peope who go around calling others burger bacha and mummy daddy, dont expect parenting from them. They would prefer if their kid watches these things and not care about the long term effects.


    "Life is Pain"
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Yes that is true, and it is very disturbing. Our people take pleasure in seeing animals butchered in front of their eyes in a very raw manner.

    There is no technology involved of any of the modern techniques that are deployed in developed countries to kill the animals. It is done in an extremely barbaric way that has been in practice for thousands of years, dating back to the time when man started to breed and farm.

    It has become an essential part of Eid and has become part of the fun, but I am still hopeful that it will become an extinct ritual over the generations. At some point, it has to end.

    But one thing that can be implemented without any problem is ensuring that young children are not exposed to this act.
    The technology employed in western countries is still barbaric, just a means to salve the conscience about killing animals and eating them which is considered okay because we don't actually get to see the animals being killed and carved up. On this at least the practising Hindus and Buddhists aren't hypocrites, they shun all animal product other than milk I believe.


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    Eid Mubarak to all Muslim brothers by the way. May Allah grant you appreciation of the sacrifice and hopefully it will be distributed to the poor and hungry as was the intent of this occasion.


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    We will be shedding blood of millions of livestock over the next three days in the name of God, May He accept our offerings.

    I have a small request for people to consider - please keep small children and toddlers away from witnessing this barbaric act of slaughter.

    I don’t think it is good for their mental health. it could stunt their mental growth which might affect them throughout their lives, and they may not even be consciously aware of it.

    The scene when the qurbani happens is not very pleasant one. Bearded guys with knives in their hands dripping blood from both hands, with their clothes soaking in blood as well, and the animals fighting for their lives in agonizing pain.

    Slaughtering animals should be limited to slaughter houses and not homes.

    This tradition of bringing goats, sheep, cows, buffalos and even camels (if you are a big champion of Islam) to your house with a bearded man putting his blood-soaked feet on the throats of the poor animals and a freshly sharpened knife in his mouth should be done away with.

    It has no place in the civilized world. Simply give money to the authorities who will deliver the meat to your house. There is no purpose in butchering animals and having bloodshed in your home.
    Do you eat meat? If you are a consumer but at same time criticising slaughter then that's hypocrisy.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Extra_Cover View Post
    Do you eat meat? If you are a consumer but at same time criticising slaughter then that's hypocrisy.
    You missed the point. I am not against eating animals and neither am I pro vegetarian. I am simply against butchering animals at home and that too in front of small children.

    It is not something that you should be doing at home, and if it is something that you derive pleasure from and if it is part of the Eid fun for you, then there is clearly something wrong with you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    The technology employed in western countries is still barbaric, just a means to salve the conscience about killing animals and eating them which is considered okay because we don't actually get to see the animals being killed and carved up. On this at least the practising Hindus and Buddhists aren't hypocrites, they shun all animal product other than milk I believe.
    It would be hypocritical if people were against the practice of slaughtering livestock on the occasion of Eid, but have no problem eating meat otherwise.

    As I said, I eat and I donít think there is anything wrong in it. I donít criticize veganism and I respect their choice, but it is not something that I personally believe in. My only issue is slaughtering animals at home in a barbaric fashion in front of children.

    It is not something that they should be exposed to.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    The technology employed in western countries is still barbaric, just a means to salve the conscience about killing animals and eating them which is considered okay because we don't actually get to see the animals being killed and carved up. On this at least the practising Hindus and Buddhists aren't hypocrites, they shun all animal product other than milk I believe.
    Any technique that involves killing a living animal will obviously be barbaric to an extent, but there is something particularly gruesome about seeing a bearded man with blood on his clothes and beard with a bloody knife in his hand and the animal wiggling in pain and agony.

    It is not something that we should be doing at home.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    You missed the point. I am not against eating animals and neither am I pro vegetarian. I am simply against butchering animals at home and that too in front of small children.

    It is not something that you should be doing at home, and if it is something that you derive pleasure from and if it is part of the Eid fun for you, then there is clearly something wrong with you.
    I am with you. In 21st century its crazy to do it at home. There should be dedicated centers to do them orderly. Anybody whos tired to seeing blood soaked streets and thrown intestines at every home corner would agree.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    You missed the point. I am not against eating animals and neither am I pro vegetarian. I am simply against butchering animals at home and that too in front of small children.

    It is not something that you should be doing at home, and if it is something that you derive pleasure from and if it is part of the Eid fun for you, then there is clearly something wrong with you.
    No, I'm against butchering animals in front of kids too. In fact it shouldn't be done in open alleys like its done here in Pakistan.

    Reading your post you sounded like a pro vegetarian which prompted the question.

    This Eid has more to do with "sacrifice", which is the point people miss during this Eid. People "sacrificing" animals during this Eid does not categorise as the sacrifice you need for this Eid. A sacrifice is something that should be close to you and the sacrifice should effect you. This could be a sacrifice of luxury holiday to spend time with family, sacrificing office opportunity for a colleague, etc. Ofcourse the sacrifice does not need to happen on this Eid day, in fact it should be take away from this occasion and practiced as the lifestyle.

    The sacrifice of goat has become symbolic due to story of Prophet Ibrahim, however people over do this in our part of the world. In places like Dubai they have reserved abattoir places where slaughter would take place. Similar trend should be done in Pakistan. Worst of all the remains of the dead animal are not disposed in the correct manner leading to diseases and illness.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Any technique that involves killing a living animal will obviously be barbaric to an extent, but there is something particularly gruesome about seeing a bearded man with blood on his clothes and beard with a bloody knife in his hand and the animal wiggling in pain and agony.

    It is not something that we should be doing at home.
    We don't do it at home in the west, there are slaughterhouses where it gets done out of sight. I suppose with Pakistan being a third world country you haven't developed to this stage yet where animals are slaughtered off-site and out of view. Definitely wouldn't expect that in the more advanced cities like Lahore or Islamabad, not a pleasant scenario for suburban life.


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    Eid Mubarak everyone

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    We will be shedding blood of millions of livestock over the next three days in the name of God, May He accept our offerings.

    I have a small request for people to consider - please keep small children and toddlers away from witnessing this barbaric act of slaughter.

    I donít think it is good for their mental health. it could stunt their mental growth which might affect them throughout their lives, and they may not even be consciously aware of it.

    The scene when the qurbani happens is not very pleasant one. Bearded guys with knives in their hands dripping blood from both hands, with their clothes soaking in blood as well, and the animals fighting for their lives in agonizing pain.

    Slaughtering animals should be limited to slaughter houses and not homes.

    This tradition of bringing goats, sheep, cows, buffalos and even camels (if you are a big champion of Islam) to your house with a bearded man putting his blood-soaked feet on the throats of the poor animals and a freshly sharpened knife in his mouth should be done away with.

    It has no place in the civilized world. Simply give money to the authorities who will deliver the meat to your house. There is no purpose in butchering animals and having bloodshed in your home.
    Iím confused. Are you vegan or vegetarian?

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckLee View Post
    Iím confused. Are you vegan or vegetarian?
    Neither, he's already explained he thinks it would be more humane and less cruel to butcher animals away from home, then consume at your own residence later.


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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    Neither, he's already explained he thinks it would be more humane and less cruel to butcher animals away from home, then consume at your own residence later.

    Ahaaa I see. Yeah I understand the though process and it does make sense. But when youíre poor and starving, youíd butcher it on your bed and consume it with no seasoning.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    We will be shedding blood of millions of livestock over the next three days in the name of God, May He accept our offerings.

    I have a small request for people to consider - please keep small children and toddlers away from witnessing this barbaric act of slaughter.

    I don’t think it is good for their mental health. it could stunt their mental growth which might affect them throughout their lives, and they may not even be consciously aware of it.

    The scene when the qurbani happens is not very pleasant one. Bearded guys with knives in their hands dripping blood from both hands, with their clothes soaking in blood as well, and the animals fighting for their lives in agonizing pain.

    Slaughtering animals should be limited to slaughter houses and not homes.

    This tradition of bringing goats, sheep, cows, buffalos and even camels (if you are a big champion of Islam) to your house with a bearded man putting his blood-soaked feet on the throats of the poor animals and a freshly sharpened knife in his mouth should be done away with.

    It has no place in the civilized world. Simply give money to the authorities who will deliver the meat to your house. There is no purpose in butchering animals and having bloodshed in your home.
    What sceientific resreach have you done to prove a child will suffer from mental health after witnessing the slaughtering of an animal & how this could be more servere if the man doing the slaughtering has a beard?

    Which method of killing an animal is less barbaric? And why do you eat meat if killing an animal is barbaric?

    I would say there is a cruelty aspect which is common in Pakistan due to the ways the animals are kept prior to their slaughtering .


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Extra_Cover View Post
    No, I'm against butchering animals in front of kids too. In fact it shouldn't be done in open alleys like its done here in Pakistan.

    Reading your post you sounded like a pro vegetarian which prompted the question.

    This Eid has more to do with "sacrifice", which is the point people miss during this Eid. People "sacrificing" animals during this Eid does not categorise as the sacrifice you need for this Eid. A sacrifice is something that should be close to you and the sacrifice should effect you. This could be a sacrifice of luxury holiday to spend time with family, sacrificing office opportunity for a colleague, etc. Ofcourse the sacrifice does not need to happen on this Eid day, in fact it should be take away from this occasion and practiced as the lifestyle.

    The sacrifice of goat has become symbolic due to story of Prophet Ibrahim, however people over do this in our part of the world. In places like Dubai they have reserved abattoir places where slaughter would take place. Similar trend should be done in Pakistan. Worst of all the remains of the dead animal are not disposed in the correct manner leading to diseases and illness.
    I completely agree.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    What sceientific resreach have you done to prove a child will suffer from mental health after witnessing the slaughtering of an animal & how this could be more servere if the man doing the slaughtering has a beard?

    Which method of killing an animal is less barbaric? And why do you eat meat if killing an animal is barbaric?

    I would say there is a cruelty aspect which is common in Pakistan due to the ways the animals are kept prior to their slaughtering .
    There is enough literature on how violence negatively impacts children. Also, I would imagine that it is more about common sense than literature. You don't really need academic research to know that children would be better off not viewing a blood soaked man slaughtering an animal struggling for his life and then skinning it with the animal hanged upside down.

    In today's world, children are already exposed to a lot of violence. From what is happening around the world to video games, movies etc., children's exposure to violence is already very high. Of course you cannot have them live in a bubble, but they go through stages. A young child or a toddler is not at a stage where he should be witnessing slaughter and bloodshed with his/her eyes.

    I am not against the Islamic way of slaughter. As I said, no method of killing a living being can be free from barbarism, but my only objection is having children witness this gore practice first-hand.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    We don't do it at home in the west, there are slaughterhouses where it gets done out of sight. I suppose with Pakistan being a third world country you haven't developed to this stage yet where animals are slaughtered off-site and out of view. Definitely wouldn't expect that in the more advanced cities like Lahore or Islamabad, not a pleasant scenario for suburban life.
    Bakra eid celebration is a big dilemma to be honest.

    If we start getting the whole process done at a slaughter house, then the essence of Bakra eid won't exist, which won't motivate children to celebrate eid in future.

    But the slaughterhouse gurantees us a professional slaughterer with the waste being disposed off in a proper manner as in Pindi the nullah is filled with blood which joins the soan river. The ojiri is thrown out on streets which is then punctured by kids and gasses are released in the air.

    Waste companies do provide disposal trolleys but often people dont use them.


    "Life is Pain"
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    So am at this town visiting relatives where Eid is being celebrated today and tomorrow according to which of the two main mosques you follow. So this guy read Eid at the mosque he follows but asked if he can read it again at the other mosque because his friends go to there and will ask where he is if he doesn’t turn up. I’m no expert on this matter but I don’t think you can. Can anyone confirm this or the ruling in such a situation?

    Eid Mubarak to all!

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    There is enough literature on how violence negatively impacts children. Also, I would imagine that it is more about common sense than literature. You don't really need academic research to know that children would be better off not viewing a blood soaked man slaughtering an animal struggling for his life and then skinning it with the animal hanged upside down.

    In today's world, children are already exposed to a lot of violence. From what is happening around the world to video games, movies etc., children's exposure to violence is already very high. Of course you cannot have them live in a bubble, but they go through stages. A young child or a toddler is not at a stage where he should be witnessing slaughter and bloodshed with his/her eyes.

    I am not against the Islamic way of slaughter. As I said, no method of killing a living being can be free from barbarism, but my only objection is having children witness this gore practice first-hand.
    Ive been coming to Pakistsn since i was 3. Ive been seeing chickens being slaughtered since then & never found it distrubing . Im sorry if you have been traumatised but strange considering you claim to be a doctor

    Its not common sense but your opinion.

    The Islamic method done correctly isnt barbaric , eating them alive would be barbaric. .

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    Ive been coming to Pakistsn since i was 3. Ive been seeing chickens being slaughtered since then & never found it distrubing . Im sorry if you have been traumatised but strange considering you claim to be a doctor

    Its not common sense but your opinion.

    The Islamic method done correctly isnt barbaric , eating them alive would be barbaric. .
    Kids watching it can traumatize them. My mom used to love eating beef, like kaleji and all that, till her aunt showed her a cow being slaughtered eid day when she was 7 in the garage and now she gets sick to her stomach when she has to eat beef. Not only that, but can't have milk, yoghurt, cheese after that incident because it was sickening to her at that age and she associates a certain type of smell to that scenario which she feels when she sees that type of food.

    I was at the baqra mandi today, and even guys in their early 20s were cringing to the sounds of the goats shrieking inside of the slaughter place let alone when they had to go inside because their dads wanted them to watch. Now you can say they were "Americanized", but humans are one of the few beings who feel mercy and pity, it's not a wild thing to say it's not natural for us to see an animal get slaughtered with blood pouring out and all.

    Ofc some people can take it with no issues. I too grew up in Pakistan and have seen chickens, goats, cows being slaughtered and didn't feel anything, but it's not wrong to say kids can get traumatized if they see that type of content in real life with so much gore. Depends on how a person's mind perceives it. Everyone is different.
    Last edited by Suleiman; 22nd August 2018 at 02:18.

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    This is why we have a lot of softies these days. Every little things gets analyzed and diagnosed. If you do this then boys won't grow up to be men. A bit of blood and violence is nothing. Especially because its on animals on not humans.

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    Eid Mubarak everyone!

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    Ive been coming to Pakistsn since i was 3. Ive been seeing chickens being slaughtered since then & never found it distrubing . Im sorry if you have been traumatised but strange considering you claim to be a doctor

    Its not common sense but your opinion.

    The Islamic method done correctly isnt barbaric , eating them alive would be barbaric. .
    As a child, my parents ensured that I wasnít exposed to these things earlier than I should have.

    As an adult, I worked in the emergency ward in a hospital at a time when suicide bombings were taking place regularly, and I got to witness people with their insides pouring out of their bodies, and people dying in front of my eyes.

    But adults can handle these things. However, children are at a greater risk of being traumatized when it comes to these things, and they donít need exposure to such gore scenes at a very young age.

    It is not an opinion. There have been studies by peer-reviewed scholars on the impact of violence on children. You can go to Google Scholar and check for yourself.

    Of course you canít reject the research of the professionals who have spent years studying the human brain and psyche, and claim to know more than them, but that would be an opinion.

    Clearly, you cannot get yourself to criticize this practice because you fear that it might go against what Islam preaches, but Islam does not preach that toddlers and young children should be audience to slaughter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    As a child, my parents ensured that I wasnít exposed to these things earlier than I should have.

    As an adult, I worked in the emergency ward in a hospital at a time when suicide bombings were taking place regularly, and I got to witness people with their insides pouring out of their bodies, and people dying in front of my eyes.

    But adults can handle these things. However, children are at a greater risk of being traumatized when it comes to these things, and they donít need exposure to such gore scenes at a very young age.

    It is not an opinion. There have been studies by peer-reviewed scholars on the impact of violence on children. You can go to Google Scholar and check for yourself.

    Of course you canít reject the research of the professionals who have spent years studying the human brain and psyche, and claim to know more than them, but that would be an opinion.

    Clearly, you cannot get yourself to criticize this practice because you fear that it might go against what Islam preaches, but Islam does not preach that toddlers and young children should be audience to slaughter.
    Lol

    Slaughtering of animals is not the same as witnessing violence. Please post quotes to this research which are relevant to witnessing animals being slaughtered .

    Maybe you was a weak hearted child , others arent or werent . Glad to hear youve grown some bottle .

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    Lol

    Slaughtering of animals is not the same as witnessing violence. Please post quotes to this research which are relevant to witnessing animals being slaughtered .

    Maybe you was a weak hearted child , others arent or werent . Glad to hear youve grown some bottle .
    Having a man in blood soaked cloth with a blood soaked knife in his hand, standing tall over the body of a goat, cow or a sheep that is wiggling to stay alive is the very definition of violence.

    Violence is not just what you perceive it to be, and acts cannot be considered violent or non-violent based on your convenience.

    I understand though. Ultimately it all comes down to our enslavement to religious beliefs.

    If slaughter was not a part of Islam, you wouldnít have needed any research or any evidence to conclude that it is a gore act that should not be witnessed by young children.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Having a man in blood soaked cloth with a blood soaked knife in his hand, standing tall over the body of a goat, cow or a sheep that is wiggling to stay alive is the very definition of violence.

    Violence is not just what you perceive it to be, and acts cannot be considered violent or non-violent based on your convenience.

    I understand though. Ultimately it all comes down to our enslavement to religious beliefs.

    If slaughter was not a part of Islam, you wouldnít have needed any research or any evidence to conclude that it is a gore act that should not be witnessed by young children.
    If I was an atheist Iíd still eat meat & be happy to witness an animal being slaughtered because how else would I eat the damn thing? As a child or an adult itís the same principle. A goat is being skinned 50 metres from me as type , itís normal for me . Violence is when there is no need & directed mainly against humans . These are studies you are referring to .

    Some kids just live a sheltered life , have a weak heart , others donít . Youíre overthinking things .

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    If I was an atheist Iíd still eat meat & be happy to witness an animal being slaughtered because how else would I eat the damn thing? As a child or an adult itís the same principle. A goat is being skinned 50 metres from me as type , itís normal for me . Violence is when there is no need & directed mainly against humans . These are studies you are referring to .

    Some kids just live a sheltered life , have a weak heart , others donít . Youíre overthinking things .
    If you are ďhappyĒ to witness an animal getting slaughtered, there is something seriously wrong with you.

    And no, I am not referring to violence on humans only. Do you know how most serial-killers started?

    They did not wake up one day and decided to kill humans. It is a slow, ongoing process. The majority of serial killers started by torturing animals. They derived pleasure from it and it made them happy.

    Eventually, their addiction to killing animals eventually evolved into killing other people. Would you say that their practice of killing and torturing animals is not violent because it doesnít involve humans, and they only get violent once they get promoted to killing and torturing humans?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    If you are ďhappyĒ to witness an animal getting slaughtered, there is something seriously wrong with you.

    And no, I am not referring to violence on humans only. Do you know how most serial-killers started?

    They did not wake up one day and decided to kill humans. It is a slow, ongoing process. The majority of serial killers started by torturing animals. They derived pleasure from it and it made them happy.

    Eventually, their addiction to killing animals eventually evolved into killing other people. Would you say that their practice of killing and torturing animals is not violent because it doesnít involve humans, and they only get violent once they get promoted to killing and torturing humans?


    What about the millions who work in abattoirs? Throughout history man has killed beasts . So if you lived in the Hunter gather age what you have done , eat grass or starve to death . You eat animals but are against killing them yourself lol .

    Seriously stop being such a wimp .

    Iíd love to continue this chat but Iím off to see my dads bull get slaughtered now & donít worry I wonít become a serial killer after lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    What about the millions who work in abattoirs? Throughout history man has killed beasts . So if you lived in the Hunter gather age what you have done , eat grass or starve to death . You eat animals but are against killing them yourself lol .

    Seriously stop being such a wimp .

    Iíd love to continue this chat but Iím off to see my dads bull get slaughtered now & donít worry I wonít become a serial killer after lol
    Talk about missing the point.

    Toddlers and young children donít work in abattoirs, and children who are exposed to animal brutality at a very young age are the ones who have shown to develop serial killer-like tendencies.

    This is not about adults, it is about children who should not be exposed to such gore scenes at a very young age, and studies have shown can that violence can have an adverse impact on their mental growth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    If I was an atheist I’d still eat meat & be happy to witness an animal being slaughtered because how else would I eat the damn thing? As a child or an adult it’s the same principle. A goat is being skinned 50 metres from me as type , it’s normal for me . Violence is when there is no need & directed mainly against humans . These are studies you are referring to .

    Some kids just live a sheltered life , have a weak heart , others don’t . You’re overthinking things .
    bro thats just disgusting.

    You may eat meat, but that doesn't mean you should be feeling happy for an animal getting slaughtered.

    I think its even a tradition in islam, that some people try to place a cloth on the face of the animal, i have seen some who even try to slaughter it away from another animals slaughtered carcass


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    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post
    bro thats just disgusting.

    You may eat meat, but that doesn't mean you should be feeling happy for an animal getting slaughtered.

    I think its even a tradition in islam, that some people try to place a cloth on the face of the animal, i have seen some who even try to slaughter it away from another animals slaughtered carcass
    Yes one animal cannot be slaughtered in front of others. Its against the principles of deen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    We will be shedding blood of millions of livestock over the next three days in the name of God, May He accept our offerings.

    I have a small request for people to consider - please keep small children and toddlers away from witnessing this barbaric act of slaughter.

    I don’t think it is good for their mental health. it could stunt their mental growth which might affect them throughout their lives, and they may not even be consciously aware of it.

    The scene when the qurbani happens is not very pleasant one. Bearded guys with knives in their hands dripping blood from both hands, with their clothes soaking in blood as well, and the animals fighting for their lives in agonizing pain.

    Slaughtering animals should be limited to slaughter houses and not homes.

    This tradition of bringing goats, sheep, cows, buffalos and even camels (if you are a big champion of Islam) to your house with a bearded man putting his blood-soaked feet on the throats of the poor animals and a freshly sharpened knife in his mouth should be done away with.

    It has no place in the civilized world. Simply give money to the authorities who will deliver the meat to your house. There is no purpose in butchering animals and having bloodshed in your home.
    I totally agree with this. I don't understand why people take pleasure in watching animals being slaughtered as if it's some circus. The best solution is for the local government to get interested people to contribute, organise the slaughtering of animals at one set location, away from the public eye, and distribute the meat evenly. This will also tackle the hygiene issues created by blood being spilt all over the place, and it's also a good way to allow people who can't afford it to get a share of the meat.

    I have heard that something similar happens in Hunza, where all meat is slaughtered at one location, and distributed evenly.


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    Prime Minister Imran Khan congratulated the nation on the celebration of Eidul Azha and urged his countrymen to remember the sacrifices made for the protection, reconstruction and development of Pakistan, Radio Pakistan reported on Wednesday.

    According to the report, the prime minister also urged people “not to forget those who are deprived in this hour of happiness”.

    Prime Minister Khan reminded the nation that sacrifice “is a universal devotion without which no nation can progress”.

    In his Eidul Azha message, President Mamnoon Hussain said today’s sacrifice commemorates the obedience and unparalleled examples set by the great prophets of Islam.

    He said this Eid should remind Pakistanis to sacrifice their egos, which is the key factor behind numerous problems.

    Chief of Army Staff General Qamar Javed Bajwa also conveyed Eid wishes to the nation through the Inter-Services Public Relations, saying: “May Allah Almighty bless our motherland [with] peace and prosperity.”

    Muslims across the world celebrate the annual festival of Eidul Azha, or the Festival of Sacrifice, which marks the end of the Haj pilgrimage to Makkah, and in commemoration of Prophet Ibrahim's readiness to sacrifice his son to show obedience to God.

    The tradition of Eidul Azha enjoins all Muslims who can afford a sacrifice to do so. To this end, Muslims across the country purchase livestock such as cows, goats, sheep and camels to sacrifice.

    https://www.dawn.com/news/1428583/pm...in-eid-message

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madplayer View Post
    Yes one animal cannot be slaughtered in front of others. Its against the principles of deen.
    True.

    Whenever we sacrifice we make sure the animal does not see the a recently slaughtered carcass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arham_PakFan View Post
    Prime Minister Imran Khan congratulated the nation on the celebration of Eidul Azha and urged his countrymen to remember the sacrifices made for the protection, reconstruction and development of Pakistan, Radio Pakistan reported on Wednesday.

    According to the report, the prime minister also urged people “not to forget those who are deprived in this hour of happiness”.

    Prime Minister Khan reminded the nation that sacrifice “is a universal devotion without which no nation can progress”.

    [/url]
    A fine message from the PM and a timely one for this thread to remind the more miserable Muslims that this is a time for reflection and celebration, you can discuss the cruelties of animal slaughter on another occasion perhaps.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post
    bro thats just disgusting.

    You may eat meat, but that doesn't mean you should be feeling happy for an animal getting slaughtered.

    I think its even a tradition in islam, that some people try to place a cloth on the face of the animal, i have seen some who even try to slaughter it away from another animals slaughtered carcass
    In Islam its preferable the one who is offering the sacrifice slaughters the animal by their own heads . Nothing disgusting about it , youre not gaining pleasure an animal is dying but God has blessed you with sustenence . Do you know anything ?

    Yes no animal should see another being slaughtered . Where did i suggest otherwise ?


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    So a simple thread made to congratulate people on Eid is taken over and completely derailed. @Mamoon why not make another thread for your points? Why hijack a thread that was made to celebrate Eid?

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    Quote Originally Posted by El Generico View Post
    So a simple thread made to congratulate people on Eid is taken over and completely derailed. @Mamoon why not make another thread for your points? Why hijack a thread that was made to celebrate Eid?
    I think it was a simple and rational request as I have had quite a few family members traumatized as children seeing all the throat slitting, blood and guts. Some shalwar kameez and joggers wearing people may see it as a sign of manhood to get pleasure from this but not everyone does.

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    Gotta agree win may man @Mamoon , Keep kids away from witnessing the slaughter of an animal . Its not something that could be healthy for their mental health . By the take don't take kids on hunting trips .


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    Butchers rob family of cash, meat in Lahore

    Butchers rob family of cash, meat in Lahore

    Web Desk On Aug 22, 2018

    LAHORE: Four butchers looted a family in a Lahore neighbourhood on Wednesday, ARY News reported.

    According to details, the butchers entered a house for slaughtering sacrificial animals.

    They slaughtered goats after which they took the family members hostage and deprived them of Rs70, 000, mobile phones and other valuables and managed to flee.

    They also made off with the meat of the two slaughtered goats.


    The nation celebrated Eid-ul-Azha today with great religious zeal and fervor to commemorate the supreme sacrifice of Prophet Hazrat Ibrahim (AS).

    The faithful slaughtered their sacrificial animals in pursuance of Sunnat-e Ibrahimi.
    https://arynews.tv/en/butchers-rob-family-lahore/amp/

    Disgusting behaviour. I hear it has been a pretty miserable Eid in parts of Lahore with power shortages and the smell of rotting carcasses taking over.

    Lets hope these criminals are caught and punished to the full extent of the law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    In Islam its preferable the one who is offering the sacrifice slaughters the animal by their own heads . Nothing disgusting about it , youre not gaining pleasure an animal is dying but God has blessed you with sustenence . Do you know anything ?

    Yes no animal should see another being slaughtered . Where did i suggest otherwise ?
    no i donot feel happy when an animal is slaughtered. I always have a feeling of sadness that the bakra which i fed for only 1 or 2 days and took him for a walk has to got through this.

    Its nothing about being a wimp or anything. Over the years my cousin use to love being a bystander at these sacrifices taking place, whether home or outside. Now he refrains from this, because its nothing to feel HAPPY about.


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    Quote Originally Posted by from_da_lost_dim3nsion View Post
    Gotta agree win may man @Mamoon , Keep kids away from witnessing the slaughter of an animal . Its not something that could be healthy for their mental health . By the take don't take kids on hunting trips .
    Agree completely. It is very traumatic for even grown adults to witness, especially the stench that comes afterwards from decapitated carcasses of animals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by El Generico View Post
    So a simple thread made to congratulate people on Eid is taken over and completely derailed. @Mamoon why not make another thread for your points? Why hijack a thread that was made to celebrate Eid?
    It was a simple request - nothing more, nothing less. The thread was ďhijackedĒ by psychopaths who get happy and derive pleasure from watching animals get slaughtered.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by hussain.r97 View Post
    I totally agree with this. I don't understand why people take pleasure in watching animals being slaughtered as if it's some circus. The best solution is for the local government to get interested people to contribute, organise the slaughtering of animals at one set location, away from the public eye, and distribute the meat evenly. This will also tackle the hygiene issues created by blood being spilt all over the place, and it's also a good way to allow people who can't afford it to get a share of the meat.

    I have heard that something similar happens in Hunza, where all meat is slaughtered at one location, and distributed evenly.
    Absolutely. People also need to be more responsible and considerate when it comes to disposing off carcasses.

    Having severed heads and guts on the streets with flies hovering over them is a common sight.

    Some of our friends on PP might get turned on by it, but it makes for gore viewing and it has no place in a civilized society. Pure barbarism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    In Islam its preferable the one who is offering the sacrifice slaughters the animal by their own heads . Nothing disgusting about it , youre not gaining pleasure an animal is dying but God has blessed you with sustenence . Do you know anything ?

    Yes no animal should see another being slaughtered . Where did i suggest otherwise ?
    Just because something is Islamic and halal, does not mean it should be done publically, or in front of kids. There are many things which are halal that are meant to be done privately, or only in the appropriate place.

    Islam is meant to be logical, and I find it totally illogical and stupid to make something as brutal as slaughter into a circus act. It is absolutely undeniable that a slaughter can be traumatic on a kid. And if it is not traumatic, it means the kid has been desensitised. No wonder Pakistanis are generally so insensitive, heck, even during the Zainab rape and murder case, they showed the poor girl's body on TV! They show such scenes on TV all the time, but no one even objects to it. You can't even show such things on the news in the West.

    In a civilized society, slaughters would be done at a set location, away from the public eye, and with appropriate cleaning facilities to prevent blood and animal parts being littered all over the place.


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    Killing animals to eat is considered cruel by many in today's world, and when the celebratory thread comes round wishing everyone a merry Christmas, it may well be a good idea to remind everyone that farming turkeys in cramped cages to be slaughtered and dispatched to supermarkets so we can eat them for our Christmas meal is not necessarily something we should be celebrating.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    Killing animals to eat is considered cruel by many in today's world, and when the celebratory thread comes round wishing everyone a merry Christmas, it may well be a good idea to remind everyone that farming turkeys in cramped cages to be slaughtered and dispatched to supermarkets so we can eat them for our Christmas meal is not necessarily something we should be celebrating.
    bro when was the last time you were here in Pakistan?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post
    bro when was the last time you were here in Pakistan?
    What has that got to do with slaughtering turkeys for Christmas?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    What has that got to do with slaughtering turkeys for Christmas?
    im just asking.

    Have you ever seen how Bakra Eid is made in Pakistan?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post
    im just asking.

    Have you ever seen how Bakra Eid is made in Pakistan?
    No, but I agree it does sound medieval, but then I consider Pakistan to be a country which is still quite a lot behind the times compared to western standards. Not that I am judging, each to their own as far as I am concerned. But now that animal cruelty has raised it's head on this occasion, I do feel ashamed that we British PPers don't raise our voices more in the Christmas threads when we should have far higher standards. I shall do my utmost to put that right in December.


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    @KingKhanWC



    This is the point that I was trying to make. This little kid will be mentally scarred for life now, and there are many kids like him who cannot eat meat when they group up and freak out at the sight of blood.

    His parents had the same mindset as you, and exposed him to this brutal and gore act of slaughtering a living being before he was mature enough to handle such violence.

    Do you still think there is nothing wrong with making children watch animals getting slaughtered? Please go ahead and call this kid a wimp. I am sure you are itching to do so.

  71. #71
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    I donít know the kid , maybe heís a wimp, maybe heís an attention seeker , maybe heís hungry or maybe he was upset seeing an animal killed .

    But not the best video to make your point as there are a few other kids around the same age who arenít having a fit .

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    @Mamoon The philosopher Aristotle in his book Poetics talked of catharsis, or affective liberation/purification through art, and he particularly recommended scenes of sorrow and violence : as per him, that's the reason the tragedy genre triumphed over the comedy one in the theater of classical Greece, when Greek culture was at its highest expression.

    Because we ape the West in its worst, we have also aped the preference for the comic over the tragic : children are not taught to grow (let alone to grow as men), but are pampered through a battalion of illusions, mainly mobilized by the neo-liberal force to further include the children into the capitalist trap (movies, toys, etc). Cultural liberalism is toxic, and the lack of tragedy in modern everyday life is the lack of a sense of hierarchy, contemplation and the sacred (while comedy puts everything at the same place, mocking God or an ethnic group or a rock band makes equalization between all of them, no more qualitative differences.)

    Like in traditional pedagogy found all over the world (incl. Islam), children should be made familiar with all these actions and scenes very early so they can become balanced, virile and responsible men later on : archery, wrestling, contemplating kurbani in order to internalize the duty of (self-)sacrifice (esp. when the kid is emotionally attached to the animal getting slaughtered), etc

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    I don’t know the kid , maybe he’s a wimp, maybe he’s an attention seeker , maybe he’s hungry or maybe he was upset seeing an animal killed .

    But not the best video to make your point as there are a few other kids around the same age who aren’t having a fit .
    Yes, a small child is "seeking attention" because he is bawling his eyes out at the sight of an animal getting slaughtered at the hands of a man. This one sentence sums up your mentality - I don't think there is more to say here.

    And yes, you are a very rare genius to point out that there are other kids around the same age who are not affected by this.

    Well, since not every kid is going to be traumatized, it is okay to expose children to this gruesome act because if one or two children out of let's say 10 are affected, it is not a problem.

    Wow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    We will be shedding blood of millions of livestock over the next three days in the name of God, May He accept our offerings.

    I have a small request for people to consider - please keep small children and toddlers away from witnessing this barbaric act of slaughter.

    I don’t think it is good for their mental health. it could stunt their mental growth which might affect them throughout their lives, and they may not even be consciously aware of it.

    The scene when the qurbani happens is not very pleasant one. Bearded guys with knives in their hands dripping blood from both hands, with their clothes soaking in blood as well, and the animals fighting for their lives in agonizing pain.

    Slaughtering animals should be limited to slaughter houses and not homes.

    This tradition of bringing goats, sheep, cows, buffalos and even camels (if you are a big champion of Islam) to your house with a bearded man putting his blood-soaked feet on the throats of the poor animals and a freshly sharpened knife in his mouth should be done away with.

    It has no place in the civilized world. Simply give money to the authorities who will deliver the meat to your house. There is no purpose in butchering animals and having bloodshed in your home.
    I completely agree with this, I was just talking to my cousin about this the other day. I think that it's not the the correct way to slaughter animals out in the open on every street in Pakistan. There should be zones, and if one wants to go watch, then they can.

    Coming to whether children should witness this, again I agree, people in my family who witness this slaughtering happening at a young age still don't eat goat/beef. There should be rules in place to regulate this as well.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Yes, a small child is "seeking attention" because he is bawling his eyes out at the sight of an animal getting slaughtered at the hands of a man. This one sentence sums up your mentality - I don't think there is more to say here.

    And yes, you are a very rare genius to point out that there are other kids around the same age who are not affected by this.

    Well, since not every kid is going to be traumatized, it is okay to expose children to this gruesome act because if one or two children out of let's say 10 are affected, it is not a problem.

    Wow.
    I also said he might be upset seeing the animal killed . My point was I donít know whatís in the mind of the child .

    Sure some kids might get upset , fine Iíll agree but you canít also make a generalisation of all kids & tell others they should not allow them to witness it .

    Over the last few days 4/5 animals were slaughtered in front of me with dozens of children being present , no kid cried . Maybe we are just immune in our area 😊

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by enkidu_ View Post
    @Mamoon The philosopher Aristotle in his book Poetics talked of catharsis, or affective liberation/purification through art, and he particularly recommended scenes of sorrow and violence : as per him, that's the reason the tragedy genre triumphed over the comedy one in the theater of classical Greece, when Greek culture was at its highest expression.

    Because we ape the West in its worst, we have also aped the preference for the comic over the tragic : children are not taught to grow (let alone to grow as men), but are pampered through a battalion of illusions, mainly mobilized by the neo-liberal force to further include the children into the capitalist trap (movies, toys, etc). Cultural liberalism is toxic, and the lack of tragedy in modern everyday life is the lack of a sense of hierarchy, contemplation and the sacred (while comedy puts everything at the same place, mocking God or an ethnic group or a rock band makes equalization between all of them, no more qualitative differences.)

    Like in traditional pedagogy found all over the world (incl. Islam), children should be made familiar with all these actions and scenes very early so they can become balanced, virile and responsible men later on : archery, wrestling, contemplating kurbani in order to internalize the duty of (self-)sacrifice (esp. when the kid is emotionally attached to the animal getting slaughtered), etc
    As great a mind as Aristotle was, a lot of his theories have been squashed by modernists. We have to understand that his ideologies were mostly shaped by his society and are not necessarily relevant or applicable in the modern world.

    That is why I would pay more heed to the the modern researchers who have written papers on the impact of violence on young children and how it can scar them for life.

    In ancient Greece, boys would start training with arms at 10 and were ready for warfare by the time they were 15 (Spartan agoge). However, in today's world, that is not applicable.

    There are clear cases of children affected by exposure to gore acts such as slaughter and we already have had 3-4 testimonies in this thread alone, so what Aristotle said in 300 BCE is not exactly applicable today, and this is not his only theory that has been dismissed by modern scholars.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmkextreme_1 View Post
    I completely agree with this, I was just talking to my cousin about this the other day. I think that it's not the the correct way to slaughter animals out in the open on every street in Pakistan. There should be zones, and if one wants to go watch, then they can.

    Coming to whether children should witness this, again I agree, people in my family who witness this slaughtering happening at a young age still don't eat goat/beef. There should be rules in place to regulate this as well.
    Exactly. Eid-ul-Azha has become a festival where there is no respect for the dignity of the animal. Severed heads are thrown on the streets along with their insides, and people are taking selfies with their carcasses. We need to adopt the model of the West - this whole slaughter business should be done in designated places, and as you said, if some people with morbid fascinations enjoy watching these animals get slaughtered, they can go to these designated places by all means.


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