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  1. #1
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    Is Azhar Ali to Tests what Misbah-ul-Haq was to ODIs?

    Very good statistics and a consistent run scorer but doesn't seem to have any impact whatsoever, and doesn't seem to be capable of influencing the outcome of the match.

    Also, just like how Misbah struggled with chasing totals, Azhar seems to be incapable of handling the pressure (or the conditions) of the fourth innings.

    While it is understandable that he is in the untouchable category these days and criticizing him is inviting trouble, but in my view, he has also played a considerable role in our inability to win matches over the last year or so.

    He was one of the chief architects of the Hamilton defeat and while everyone is pointing at the other batsmen for the defeat in Abu Dhabi, Azhar himself was one of the main culprits.

    In the first innings, he came at 114-1 and ended up scoring 85 at a strike rate of 37. Any world class batsman in that situation would have scored 30-40 runs more, which would have probably changed the outcome of the match.

    Some people then wonder why he is not rated as an elite batsman like Kohli, Root, Smith and Williamson, but it is very easy to see why.

    A lot of people are quick to point out that the problem lies with his batting position and how it won't be an issue if he opens, but I beg to differ; if your most prolific run scorer will bat at a snail's pace regardless of whether he is on 30 or 130, he is not going to put the team in match-winning positions. He is probably the only established batsman in the game who does not grow into confidence as the game progresses.

    As we learned during the Misbah era in ODIs, just because he is the only consistent run scorer in the team does not mean that he is beyond criticism.

    If Azhar is Pakistan's answer to a world class batsman, then no wonder we are languishing at number 7. He is a solid player but it is laughable to put him in the world class bracket. He seems to be cut from the same cloth as Sami or Masood or Shafiq, but since he is much better than them, he lasts much longer.

    Frankly, it is becoming tiresome to see him score runs but not have any say in the outcome of the match. People need to tone down with all the lavish praise for him. He is a deaf king among a sorry lot that is both blind and suffers from dementia, but let's not overrate him. He is nothing more than a good player who would be a good sidekick for an elite batsman which we don't have.

  2. #2
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    You need a batsman like Azhar in test matches. His game is more suited to opening the batting however.

    Haris looks like the one to take the #3 spot in the future, and he is exactly the kind of player we need there

  3. #3
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    Azhar isnt in same league as Smith, Root or Kane but at par with Kohli- the test batsmen.

    The job of an opener is to see of the new ball and Azhar does it wonderfully and can also score big innings.

  4. #4
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    This is idiotic

    He is the only world class batsman we have.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuts_and_cuts_hard View Post
    This is idiotic

    He is the only world class batsman we have.
    World class batsmen do not strike below 40 after spending hours at the crease. If he is world class then I wonder what are the elite batsmen playing today? He isn't in their league.
    Last edited by Mamoon; 9th October 2017 at 20:40.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted123 View Post
    Azhar isnt in same league as Smith, Root or Kane but at par with Kohli- the test batsmen.

    The job of an opener is to see of the new ball and Azhar does it wonderfully and can also score big innings.
    He is not going to be on par with Kohli with a strike rate of below 50. He is just a poor man's Cook.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    World class batsmen do not strike below 40 after spending hours at the crease. If he is world class then I wonder what are the elite batsmen playing today? He isn't in their league.
    So Dravid,Gavaskar and Boycott aren't world class?

  8. #8
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    And the funnier thing is, he is now our first choice opener in ODIs as well.

  9. #9
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    disagree, he needs to be utilized as an opener


    Babar Azam: Runs 8032, Average 44, Top Score: 204, Fav fan: CricFan2012

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted123 View Post
    So Dravid,Gavaskar and Boycott aren't world class?
    Don't tell me that you don't know that Dravid, Gavasker and Boycott are from different era as compared to Azhar's. This is the era of scoring at 50+ individual strike rate and 4+ collective run rate.

    Kohli is not just a world class batsman and leagues above Azhar but he is also a world class test team leader. He himself tries to play with 50+ strike rate and put more impact on the game with his batting. He also encourages the ultra slow batsmen of his team like Pujara to play with higher strike rate and put more impact on the game or else get ready to be dropped from the team.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted123 View Post
    So Dravid,Gavaskar and Boycott aren't world class?
    None of them play in 2017.

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    he is good at what he does

    the problem that the team is filled with crap versions of him


    If he opened and we had a decent lineup we would hardly notice azhar's strike rate.


    "Last time Uganda toured Canada, half their team ran away to start a new life" - cricfan967

  13. #13
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    He is good at opening, he is an anchor, doesn't give his wicket away. He is not the problem, other batsmen need to play well around him.


    Does cricket survive off of it's money or does it survive for it's money?

  14. #14
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    he is currently the only pak batsman who is secured of his place in test playing XI

  15. #15
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    These are the FACTS:



    @cricketjoshila @Mamoon



    Hence, he is the UNDISPUTED best batsman in the world by a mile.


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    These are the FACTS:



    @cricketjoshila @Mamoon



    Hence, he is the UNDISPUTED best batsman in the world by a mile.
    Averages 55 as a test opener but he's bad for the team

  17. #17
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    Let me ask @Mamoon one simple question, are you happy with Azhar being the low impact, below 40 SR, consistent run scorer, can bat at any position dependent on team management preferences? Are you satisfied with the way he is? I am.

    For me he can be all those things you mentioned above. He just needs to do what he has been doing in tests for last couple of year, just play the way he wants to play.

    For impact and above 40 SR averages maybe its time Pak find another batsman for that role.

    This happened during Misbah time as well during ODIs, he was the consistent run scorer but used to get a tirade of abuse for not scoring enough. Harsha phrased this perfectly 'A family of 11 got one sole bread winner and the family complains he is not doing enough'.

    For this time, can we just let Azhar be Azhar. For all those impactful knock, can we just ask some other Pak batsman to put his hand up and deliver for once.

  18. #18
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    An ODI average of 40+ at a strike rate of below 80 and a Test average of 50+ at a strike rate of below 50 are not good for the team, unless you have a lot of dynamic batsmen in your lineup who can make up for it. Unfortunately we don't, so in the context of our team, Azhar's style of play is not helping us.

    Do others deserve more criticism? Obviously, because he's at least scoring runs, but that doesn't make him untouchable. Nonetheless, it is understandable that any criticism directed at Mr. Untouchable at the moment is far from welcome.

    I have personally had it with Azhar scoring runs consistently with Pakistan losing consistently.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    An ODI average of 40+ at a strike rate of below 80 and a Test average of 50+ at a strike rate of below 50 are not good for the team, unless you have a lot of dynamic batsmen in your lineup who can make up for it. Unfortunately we don't, so in the context of our team, Azhar's style of play is not helping us.

    Do others deserve more criticism? Obviously, because he's at least scoring runs, but that doesn't make him untouchable. Nonetheless, it is understandable that any criticism directed at Mr. Untouchable at the moment is far from welcome.

    I have personally had it with Azhar scoring runs consistently with Pakistan losing consistently.
    yeah but he has been grinding regardless of win or loose

    Runs in losses and draws is more an issue with Asad


    "Last time Uganda toured Canada, half their team ran away to start a new life" - cricfan967

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Extra_Cover View Post
    Let me ask @Mamoon one simple question, are you happy with Azhar being the low impact, below 40 SR, consistent run scorer, can bat at any position dependent on team management preferences? Are you satisfied with the way he is? I am.

    For me he can be all those things you mentioned above. He just needs to do what he has been doing in tests for last couple of year, just play the way he wants to play.

    For impact and above 40 SR averages maybe its time Pak find another batsman for that role.

    This happened during Misbah time as well during ODIs, he was the consistent run scorer but used to get a tirade of abuse for not scoring enough. Harsha phrased this perfectly 'A family of 11 got one sole bread winner and the family complains he is not doing enough'.

    For this time, can we just let Azhar be Azhar. For all those impactful knock, can we just ask some other Pak batsman to put his hand up and deliver for once.
    Finally a worthy post.

    Look I partially agree with you, but as I said, you need a couple of consistent stroke-makers to make up for a consistent stroke-less wonder. However, we don't have such batsmen at the moment, which makes Azhar's innings more counter-productive.

    After 5k runs and 60 Tests, if your main batsman is scoring 80 at a strike rate of 35 on a flat pitch after coming in at 114-1, then you are not going to win many games.

    Azhar is a valuable player for us because others are utter rubbish, but he is far from a champion batsman that we seek.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by pakistanigoneaussie View Post
    yeah but he has been grinding regardless of win or loose

    Runs in losses and draws is more an issue with Asad
    Which is why Asad is getting a lot more stick. However, Azhar also deserves some slack. The consistent choking in the fourth innings where his grinding goes out of the window doesn't help either. He has been at the fore of every single 4th innings collapse in the last year.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Finally a worthy post.

    Look I partially agree with you, but as I said, you need a couple of consistent stroke-makers to make up for a consistent stroke-less wonder. However, we don't have such batsmen at the moment, which makes Azhar's innings more counter-productive.

    After 5k runs and 60 Tests, if your main batsman is scoring 80 at a strike rate of 35 on a flat pitch after coming in at 114-1, then you are not going to win many games.

    Azhar is a valuable player for us because others are utter rubbish, but he is far from a champion batsman that we seek.
    He is a champion batsman in a line up that doesn't have many and on top of that he is scoring more runs then any other batsman in the world which makes him special. Every test team needs a batsman like Azhar Ali and we should be grateful because he is a gift for Pakistan cricket right now.


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Finally a worthy post.

    Look I partially agree with you, but as I said, you need a couple of consistent stroke-makers to make up for a consistent stroke-less wonder. However, we don't have such batsmen at the moment, which makes Azhar's innings more counter-productive.

    After 5k runs and 60 Tests, if your main batsman is scoring 80 at a strike rate of 35 on a flat pitch after coming in at 114-1, then you are not going to win many games.

    Azhar is a valuable player for us because others are utter rubbish, but he is far from a champion batsman that we seek.
    That is what I'm implying. Why we hell bent on making him the hero of the movie when he is great as a supporting actor!

    Let Azhar play the way he is currently playing and let him be consistent. Pak needs to find another batsman who can put his hand up and start churning in performances of a hero. It is very evident looking at Azhar bat that he will never be in that "hero" category, fgs he is a make shift batsman let alone an opener. But such has been his hardwork and temperament that he had served a role that wasn't his in the first place and now we want him to go far and beyond to what already has been unrealistic expectation to start with.

    Its time Babar or Haris put their hand up and start putting in those performance which supported with Azhar's knocks can yield positive results. If not Babar then I would like to see someone dynamic from domestics like Amin. A player who can play a range of all round strokes.

    Anyways, lets not criticize Azhar for not achieving an unrealistic benchmark. He has already surpassed a lot of expectations that were originally associated with him. Any may God bless him to surpass more expectations in future.

  24. #24
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    I agree with Mamoon, with that sort of batting he isn't going to be Kohli, Root level of course. I do think this problem is mitigated somewhat opening, as it gives a platform for more dynamic batsmen to build on/blunts the new ball. It's far better to at least have an opener who knows how to stick around, then one who is dynamic who doesn't. In most situations his game as opener is fine, but you're right you don't exactly want his sort of play coming in when we're 100-1. In addition the way he plays and with not seemingly to be improving, I don't like him in ODIs at all, he's so limited.

    Always felt while Misbah was a good ODI batsman for us, as he was the only one who scored against tougher opposition consistently, he should have batted up the order at no.3. His performances were often too late, and too low SR for someone batting so low.

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    I understand what OP is trying to say but our think tank have stacked our side with one paced batsmen. Put stroke makers around him and he will look even better than he does now.

    He isn't a number 3 at all though. Hopefully he is allowed to open vs England.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    These are the FACTS:



    @cricketjoshila @Mamoon



    Hence, he is the UNDISPUTED best batsman in the world by a mile.
    Lol he isnt even in top let alone be the undisputed in the world. Your posting smilies and hyping him on PP wont change that fact.

    The fact that you used a 10 day old tweet of saj to hide the latest figures shows how desperate you have become.

    http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...s;type=batting

    Name:  top bat oct 17.jpg
Views: 865
Size:  32.2 KB

    Look at the figures. Smith Kohli Pujara all avg higher. Azhar Ali has more runs as he has played more number of innings. You see this is why you should not try to get into serious discussions on facts.Its not your forte.
    @Mamoon
    Last edited by cricketjoshila; 10th October 2017 at 00:53.

  27. #27
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    Better pic.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Lol he isnt even in top let alone be the undisputed in the world. Your posting smilies and hyping him on PP wont change that fact.

    The fact that you used a 10 day old tweet of saj to hide the latest figures shows how desperate you have become.

    http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...s;type=batting

    Name:  top bat oct 17.jpg
Views: 865
Size:  32.2 KB

    Look at the figures. Smith Kohli Pujara all avg higher. Azhar Ali has more runs as he has played more number of innings. You see this is why you should not try to get into serious discussions on facts.Its not your forte.
    @Mamoon
    The FACT is simple, not only does Azhar have more runs. Azhar's average was SUPERIOR, I don't think you can push any of your narrow minded opinions as fact now that you have contradicted the basis of your hypocritical logics. The numbers posted are the BE and END all, there is no debate whatsoever.
    Last edited by Abdullah719; 10th October 2017 at 02:20.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    The FACT is simple, not only does Azhar have more runs. Azhar's average was SUPERIOR, I don't think you can push any of your narrow minded opinions as fact now that you have contradicted the basis of your hypocritical logics. The numbers posted are the BE and END all, there is no debate whatsoever.

    Yes there can be no debate with a person who doesnt have the ability to have one, like you.

    His avg isnt superior to atleast 3 players in the list.

    His runs are more as he played more innings.

    Simple Maths.Hope you can handle that.
    Last edited by Abdullah719; 10th October 2017 at 02:20.

  30. #30
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    He had a purple patch helped by a triple century not out on a Road of a wicket its down hill from here with more away tours coming up.
    He's not as good as his stats suggest but would be a decent opener regardless.

  31. #31
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    When Azhar first came to the team in 2010, he was a strokeless individual and his strike rate was horrible and he was devoid of shots in his armoury. Since then he has lifted his game through hard work and has punched above his weight even though he was never naturally gifted. He was the perfect opening batsman for us and once he gets in after blunting the new ball which is the job of the opener, you know perfectly well he will get a big score.

    To be honest he is a far cry from our problems. We need one batsman like him in the team, we actually need him to open the innings so that we can accomodate an extra bowler or all rounder in the side but most importantly the rest of the team needs to bat at a decent strike rate.

    Unlike Misbah ul Haq, Azhar Ali has shown many times he can punch above his weight and can play to the team's requirements

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketerB94 View Post
    Don't tell me that you don't know that Dravid, Gavasker and Boycott are from different era as compared to Azhar's. This is the era of scoring at 50+ individual strike rate and 4+ collective run rate.

    Kohli is not just a world class batsman and leagues above Azhar but he is also a world class test team leader. He himself tries to play with 50+ strike rate and put more impact on the game with his batting. He also encourages the ultra slow batsmen of his team like Pujara to play with higher strike rate and put more impact on the game or else get ready to be dropped from the team.
    It is idiotic to compare Azhar Ali and Kohli, the former is not blessed with the natural gifts and talent of the later and can never match the feats of the later no matter if he exceeds his work ethic

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    An ODI average of 40+ at a strike rate of below 80 and a Test average of 50+ at a strike rate of below 50 are not good for the team, unless you have a lot of dynamic batsmen in your lineup who can make up for it. Unfortunately we don't, so in the context of our team, Azhar's style of play is not helping us.

    Do others deserve more criticism? Obviously, because he's at least scoring runs, but that doesn't make him untouchable. Nonetheless, it is understandable that any criticism directed at Mr. Untouchable at the moment is far from welcome.

    I have personally had it with Azhar scoring runs consistently with Pakistan losing consistently.
    The irony of this post given that you never ranted against Misbah ul Haq like this

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Yes there can be no debate with a person who doesnt have the ability to have one, like you.

    His avg isnt superior to atleast 3 players in the list.

    His runs are more as he played more innings.

    Simple Maths.Hope you can handle that.
    You can't even be consistent when it comes to your depleted views. As per Saj's tweet in that present moment in time how can you argue against Azhar's greatness as the best, not only was his average superior he scored more runs to. Fast forward weeks later now according the numbers it has changed so swiftly your depleted logic must also advocate Irfan Pathan being a better bat then Kapil Dev
    Last edited by Abdullah719; 10th October 2017 at 02:21.


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Yes there can be no debate with a person who doesnt have the ability to have one, like you.

    His avg isnt superior to atleast 3 players in the list.

    His runs are more as he played more innings.

    Simple Maths.Hope you can handle that.
    He has a higher average than Elgar, Root, Karunaratne, Amla, Warner, Cook, Faf, De Kock, and Bairstow.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    The irony of this post given that you never ranted against Misbah ul Haq like this
    Misbah was criticized enough. Didn't feel the need to.

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    Azhar still circumspect against Spin. Rangana has always given him problems with spin.

    I am tempted to compare his purple patch to Faf DuPlessis's when he first came in the test side and helped SA win against Aus in Aus, the comparison not associated with the grit shown in the 4th innings, its just his technique is more lik Azhar Ali's in that both looked like they would never get out to pace bowling but always struggled against spin...

    Azhar despite being World Class has never comfortably moved against spinners. In that he is a limited batsman but still makes the most of what he has.

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    What I have taken from this thread.........

    1) Azhar is not doing enough for the Pakistan team
    2) Azhar is not a Kohli / Root / Smith level player
    3) Azhar should be criticized for being the player that he is

    Now let's clear all the smokescreen and let me ask three simple questions to the OP

    1) Do you want Azhar to be dropped ?
    2) Should Azhar ditch his stable and an approach that is working so that he can play 'faster' and average 15 point less ?
    3) On a scale of 1-10 what is the level of criticism that Azhar should be subjected to.... (And this is seeing in light of the fact that he's the best and most accomplished bat in the team)??

    Would appreciate to have your POV on this....

  39. #39
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    Azhar has scored centuries in England, Double century in Australia, and got a very good 50+ in NZ.... Don't think Johnathan Trott ever got criticized for playing slowly despite never impacting the game with his world class genius except in home conditions

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahmedwaqas92 View Post
    What I have taken from this thread.........

    1) Azhar is not doing enough for the Pakistan team
    2) Azhar is not a Kohli / Root / Smith level player
    3) Azhar should be criticized for being the player that he is

    Now let's clear all the smokescreen and let me ask three simple questions to the OP

    1) Do you want Azhar to be dropped ?
    2) Should Azhar ditch his stable and an approach that is working so that he can play 'faster' and average 15 point less ?
    3) On a scale of 1-10 what is the level of criticism that Azhar should be subjected to.... (And this is seeing in light of the fact that he's the best and most accomplished bat in the team)??

    Would appreciate to have your POV on this....
    1) He is doing a lot relatively to others, but it is not enough. His contributions are not impactful.
    2) He is nowhere near that level
    3) To an extent, yes.

    Questions:
    1) Of course not
    2) Of course not
    3) About 6 to 6.5, because his negative style of play does not help the team win matches and he consistently chokes in the fourth innings, which means that he has been one of the chief culprits in our countless fourth innings collapses over the last year or so. In fact his performance in the first innings in the first Test - as our main batsman - was a major reason why we had a small lead in the first place. Hence, he played a significant hand in our loss.


  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by waleed88 View Post
    Azhar has scored centuries in England, Double century in Australia, and got a very good 50+ in NZ.... Don't think Johnathan Trott ever got criticized for playing slowly despite never impacting the game with his world class genius except in home conditions
    He actually received enough criticism and is rightfully not remembered as an elite batsman.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    He actually received enough criticism and is rightfully not remembered as an elite batsman.
    Still a big part in making England no.1 along with Pieterson Cook and Bell

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by waleed88 View Post
    Still a big part in making England no.1 along with Pieterson Cook and Bell
    Azhar has also played a big part in our success in the last 7 years, but now with Younis and Misbah gone, the responsibility on his shoulders has doubled and it doesn't seem like he has it in him to take charge.

    One of those batsmen who are good supporting cast but not the main hero. People will come to terms with this with the passage of time as Azhar continues to pile up the runs but Pakistan continues to lose matches.

    After all, "runs in wins" and "runs in defeats" are favorites statistics of PPers to praise Inzamam and criticize Sachin......Azhar is not looking good on those filters......

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by CadPakFan View Post
    He has a higher average than Elgar, Root, Karunaratne, Amla, Warner, Cook, Faf, De Kock, and Bairstow.
    Read the original post that started the debate.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    You can't even be consistent when it comes to your depleted views. As per Saj's tweet in that present moment in time how can you argue against Azhar's greatness as the best, not only was his average superior he scored more runs to. Fast forward weeks later now according the numbers it has changed so swiftly your depleted logic must also advocate Irfan Pathan being a better bat then Kapil Dev
    Saj's tweet on 30th september is out of context on 10th October. Learn Date and Time. Past and Present.Then simple maths. After you have finished that, we can come to logic.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Very good statistics and a consistent run scorer but doesn't seem to have any impact whatsoever, and doesn't seem to be capable of influencing the outcome of the match.

    Also, just like how Misbah struggled with chasing totals, Azhar seems to be incapable of handling the pressure (or the conditions) of the fourth innings.

    While it is understandable that he is in the untouchable category these days and criticizing him is inviting trouble, but in my view, he has also played a considerable role in our inability to win matches over the last year or so.

    He was one of the chief architects of the Hamilton defeat and while everyone is pointing at the other batsmen for the defeat in Abu Dhabi, Azhar himself was one of the main culprits.

    In the first innings, he came at 114-1 and ended up scoring 85 at a strike rate of 37. Any world class batsman in that situation would have scored 30-40 runs more, which would have probably changed the outcome of the match.

    Some people then wonder why he is not rated as an elite batsman like Kohli, Root, Smith and Williamson, but it is very easy to see why.

    A lot of people are quick to point out that the problem lies with his batting position and how it won't be an issue if he opens, but I beg to differ; if your most prolific run scorer will bat at a snail's pace regardless of whether he is on 30 or 130, he is not going to put the team in match-winning positions. He is probably the only established batsman in the game who does not grow into confidence as the game progresses.

    As we learned during the Misbah era in ODIs, just because he is the only consistent run scorer in the team does not mean that he is beyond criticism.

    If Azhar is Pakistan's answer to a world class batsman, then no wonder we are languishing at number 7. He is a solid player but it is laughable to put him in the world class bracket. He seems to be cut from the same cloth as Sami or Masood or Shafiq, but since he is much better than them, he lasts much longer.

    Frankly, it is becoming tiresome to see him score runs but not have any say in the outcome of the match. People need to tone down with all the lavish praise for him. He is a deaf king among a sorry lot that is both blind and suffers from dementia, but let's not overrate him. He is nothing more than a good player who would be a good sidekick for an elite batsman which we don't have.
    He has won matches for Pakistan unlike Misbah:

    1. vs England 2012, 2nd test - Abu Dhabi

    Although very slow, his 68 runs were as crucial as Rehman + Ajmal wickets in the 4th innings.

    1. vs England 2012, 3rd test - Dubai

    One test later scores a match winning 157

    3. vs SL 2014, 3rd test - Sharjah

    A heroic ton where he managed to bat at a SR of 80 to aid Pakistan in chasing 300 in 2 sessions!!!

    4. vs WI 2016, 1st test - Dubai

    A triple hundred is a special achievement regardless of conditions or bowling attack. Requires special powers of focus, concentration, fitness and fight to do it. Special knock.

    Unfortunately hasn't managed a match winning knock outside Asia simply because no one in his team (except Younis perhaps) has had the quality to play pace on faster wickets but that doesn't mean his knocks in Boxing day test in Melbourne and his hundred at Edgbaston should have it's value diminished. Latter century should have been match winning if it wasn't for Misbah's horrendous defensive strategy. Pakistan had like 130-140 run lead and after 10 overs made it so easy for England with fielders back

    Because his SR isn't 50+ he isn't in the league of VK, Smith, Williamson, Root etc but he is a top 10 test bat for sure. World Class and potential Pakistan legend!

  47. #47
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    Azhar Ali lacks impact. Yep.

    But, so do others like Pujara, Joe Root (rarely he'd play with impact in Tests).

    If you look at Tests, only Virat Kohli and AB de Villiers will shine in high average plus high impact combined scenario.

    He's not the kind of player you want him to be.

    What's needed in the team is better impact players around him. He's not an issue, it's the other batsmen that are an issue.

    Bring in Umar Amin. Haris Sohail can give us good partnerships too, both of them good stroke players.

    He scores runs, and he scores runs when we need him to.

  48. #48
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    It is just his style of play.

    What is more worrisome is his lack of big scores this series. Yes Haris had the same problem but since it is his debut series - he would have some slack.

    More dynamic batsman such as Babar/Haris and even Shafiq have to step up now.

    The problem is our top 3 in Masood, Sami and Azhar are all very slow - need someone a little bit more dynamic at the top.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by msb314 View Post
    It is just his style of play.

    What is more worrisome is his lack of big scores this series. Yes Haris had the same problem but since it is his debut series - he would have some slack.

    More dynamic batsman such as Babar/Haris and even Shafiq have to step up now.

    The problem is our top 3 in Masood, Sami and Azhar are all very slow - need someone a little bit more dynamic at the top.
    He's not going to score big every series. It's just a unrealistic expectation to have from any player.


    Chak de.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdul View Post
    He's not going to score big every series. It's just a unrealistic expectation to have from any player.
    But if your top 3 fail and put pressure on the next 7, you have little chance of success. All you have to do is put away the bad balls. Cook has made 10k runs by flicking wide balls to the leg-side for crying out loud.

  51. #51
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    Azhar is absolutely vital for the side, but the Chisti Mujahids of PP need to realize that this is not the 1970s and the good old days of their youth are long gone... This is twenty freaking seventeen, you cannot expect to bat at 35 strike rate and hope to win matches. Azhar has to learn to bat at 50 SR if he wants to stand amongst the batsmen of his stature.


    Take this very ongoing match if you will, Sri Lanka smashed 482 in 159 overs even though that amounts to just an overall run rate of just above 3, but it was still fast enough for the match to run its full course and enough time left to bowl Pakistan out twice. In comparison Pakistan was teetering along in the first innings and also in the second innings (before this partnership), going nowhere playing at less than 2 rpo. Now the Chisti Mujahids will argue that run rate isn't important, but the only reason Pakistan is in the driving seat and Sri Lanka on the back foot is because Saifi and Shafiq have played at a run rate of more than 4 throughout their partnership.

    Look at India, the number one ranked side, they hardly play an innings in which their overall run rate is less than 3 - 3.2.


    I don't expect the Chisti Mujahids to understand this.


    Mein inko rolaonga


    NaMo se Namonay tak ka safar..... chaiwala

  52. #52
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    Azhar is a great player for Pakistan but Mamoon has some point. Azhar's 200 in Sydney is an example of an innings which was great and under very tough conditions..but impact-less. I remember telling my friend that this might be the only double ton I've seen that couldn't draw the game. I also think his SR even in tests really effects everyone else. While it's true that Azhar's SR should not effect how other's play but I think it has disadvantaged us.

    That said, I feel Azhar is total fighter. He has progressed far better than everyone and for that he should be recognized and appreciated. We need more of Azhar's personality in all our players. I think Azhar will end up overcoming his SR issue and will play score some big hundreds...abut I also hope he wins us many games. I also think he could end up being a decent odi opener.

    Funny I actually agree with Mamoon for the first time. Gotta give him points for always being genuine and having his own opinion. Unlike the other experts on here who literally cause a snore fest with their one-dimensional thinking.

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    Azhar's game is perfect for Test match, but not his position. Any team can have one such opener with 50/35 sort of Test stats, but not at 3, which is the most dynamic position. Azhar's game is built on putting value to wicket, which is great at the start of consistent scorer (not like Shan/Sami who are averaging his half), but at 3, he is a disaster. At Abu Dhabi, he played 226 balls for his 86, that's at least 25 short of what should be - ironically PAK lost the Test by 21. Here as well, 17 of 52 in 4th innings doesn't help the team.

    I actually feel, Azhar is limiting himself by his ultra defensive approach, he is better player than that. His 4.5 hours 32 didn't take PAK any where, similarly today as well. At this age, he can't change his game, rather PAK should utilize his strength to team's benefit - that's opening the innings. Sadly, Arthur/Sarfraz had to sacrifice one spot to acomodate Masood, hence Azhar is batting at 3.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    Azhar's game is perfect for Test match, but not his position. Any team can have one such opener with 50/35 sort of Test stats, but not at 3, which is the most dynamic position. Azhar's game is built on putting value to wicket, which is great at the start of consistent scorer (not like Shan/Sami who are averaging his half), but at 3, he is a disaster. At Abu Dhabi, he played 226 balls for his 86, that's at least 25 short of what should be - ironically PAK lost the Test by 21. Here as well, 17 of 52 in 4th innings doesn't help the team.

    I actually feel, Azhar is limiting himself by his ultra defensive approach, he is better player than that. His 4.5 hours 32 didn't take PAK any where, similarly today as well. At this age, he can't change his game, rather PAK should utilize his strength to team's benefit - that's opening the innings. Sadly, Arthur/Sarfraz had to sacrifice one spot to acomodate Masood, hence Azhar is batting at 3.
    I feel like Azhar should've stood up for himself when Mickey/Sarfaraz asked him to open the innings. His problem is that he's too nice and he lets other dictate him. Because he's a team man he'll always do what's best for the team, and others are potentially taking advantage of this. Mickey probably told him that he needs to open the batting for team's sake and he blindly accepted.

    Idiot needs to use his brain, fgs. Nice people will never get anywhere in the world.


    Chak de.

  55. #55
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    I never considered Misbah as a good leader, actually hated it, if you have player like Misbah as main or lead batsman, you are bound to be #7/8 outfit in Odi, which Pakistan was.

    On the same line, Azhar cannot be your lead batsman, he plays too slow to be effective. In Misbahís era it was not Azhar or Misbah who led the batting unit, that was YK, who played big effective innings. Other two needed to be carried by YK, because he was the one who drove partnerships. These two were grinders, they drag the game, rarely carry forward.

    I am hoping somebody like Harris will take the role of YK, thatís why it was important to invest in him back in 2012. Pakistan has difficult time ahead, we are searching for leader in test ATM.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdul View Post
    I feel like Azhar should've stood up for himself when Mickey/Sarfaraz asked him to open the innings. His problem is that he's too nice and he lets other dictate him. Because he's a team man he'll always do what's best for the team, and others are potentially taking advantage of this. Mickey probably told him that he needs to open the batting for team's sake and he blindly accepted.

    Idiot needs to use his brain, fgs. Nice people will never get anywhere in the world.
    Azhar game is perfectly suited for open position. Not #3/4, as I said, he takes lot of time, even then never really gets going, like YK used to do after 70/80. If he make 150/200, we would have taken such a long time that match can only be drawn.

    I hope he goes back to opening slot, itís good for him and Pakistan. Bring back Fawad for #4 and Harris for #3, we will ruin the team by dragging Azhar to 3/4 position.

  57. #57
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    Wonder if we're being harsh on Azhar Ali though, when one of the best no.3s of all time Rahul Dravid batted at a similar strike rate.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by ads101 View Post
    Wonder if we're being harsh on Azhar Ali though, when one of the best no.3s of all time Rahul Dravid batted at a similar strike rate.
    Dravid played 15+ years ago. Comparing across generations isn't a valid comparison

    The game has changed so much in the last 5 years, let alone 15. Compare him with someone today

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by coy0607 View Post
    Dravid played 15+ years ago. Comparing across generations isn't a valid comparison

    The game has changed so much in the last 5 years, let alone 15. Compare him with someone today
    That's an exaggeration, last test Dravid played was five years ago. Not fifteen. Tests have changed, but I don't think we'd complain if we had Dravid in our side even if he played like he did in his era. Think one of the reason Dravid did lag behind tendulkar was the fact he was less dynamic and scored a slower SR. But even then he was rated despite him contrasting with other no.3s of his generation.e.g Ponting, Sangakaara, Lara etc.

    I think it might be more to do with the fact is Azhar is less imposing, he doesn't really dominate an attack, he scratches around and stays in. While Dravid had a much more solid defense. Dravid was also a better player against spin, when a good spinner is bowling well, Azhar usually gets tied down by them.

    I don't think his SR is a massive issue, sure it's nice to have someone who scores a bit quicker at 3, and he's not ideal coming in 100-1 but that situation doesn't happen too often. The bigger issue is probably the fact that by Azhar not opening we play one more mediocre opener, and lack the chance to play a brighter middle order talent e.g. Usman. I agree with hawkeye, it's the other batsmen who are expected to be more flowing/dynamic. Azhar is the only batsman in the team that plays the new ball well and is solid against the pacers. The other two experienced bats in Asad and Sarfraz are much better against spin and struggle much more against the new ball.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by ads101 View Post
    That's an exaggeration, last test Dravid played was five years ago. Not fifteen. Tests have changed, but I don't think we'd complain if we had Dravid in our side even if he played like he did in his era. Think one of the reason Dravid did lag behind tendulkar was the fact he was less dynamic and scored a slower SR. But even then he was rated despite him contrasting with other no.3s of his generation.e.g Ponting, Sangakaara, Lara etc.

    I think it might be more to do with the fact is Azhar is less imposing, he doesn't really dominate an attack, he scratches around and stays in. While Dravid had a much more solid defense. Dravid was also a better player against spin, when a good spinner is bowling well, Azhar usually gets tied down by them.

    I don't think his SR is a massive issue, sure it's nice to have someone who scores a bit quicker at 3, and he's not ideal coming in 100-1 but that situation doesn't happen too often. The bigger issue is probably the fact that by Azhar not opening we play one more mediocre opener, and lack the chance to play a brighter middle order talent e.g. Usman. I agree with hawkeye, it's the other batsmen who are expected to be more flowing/dynamic. Azhar is the only batsman in the team that plays the new ball well and is solid against the pacers. The other two experienced bats in Asad and Sarfraz are much better against spin and struggle much more against the new ball.
    Dravid had gun batsmen around him, we just have mediocre ones. That's the main problem.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketerB94 View Post
    Don't tell me that you don't know that Dravid, Gavasker and Boycott are from different era as compared to Azhar's. This is the era of scoring at 50+ individual strike rate and 4+ collective run rate.

    Kohli is not just a world class batsman and leagues above Azhar but he is also a world class test team leader. He himself tries to play with 50+ strike rate and put more impact on the game with his batting. He also encourages the ultra slow batsmen of his team like Pujara to play with higher strike rate and put more impact on the game or else get ready to be dropped from the team.
    What has changed in test cricket to make a claim that this is an era of higher SR? The rules are still the same in test format.There is nothing wrong in being traditional.

    Kohli is nowhere close to being a world class leader. He is mediocre tactically and just because he has managed to win games at home because of a strong and balanced team, it doesn't mean much. He is one of the greatest in ODIs but at the same level as Azhar Ali in tests.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Saj's tweet on 30th september is out of context on 10th October. Learn Date and Time. Past and Present.Then simple maths. After you have finished that, we can come to logic.
    So based on your simple logic and math in that moment in time you accept that Azhar is the best batsman in the world given that it was the FACT based on numbers but now you've changed your mind as the FACT does not indicate it 10 days later Since the FACT on 30th septemeber is not in line with your depleted view it is out of context all of a sudden but as the more recent one is you will preach it as the gospel truth you're not known for being the sharpest bloke about
    Last edited by shaz619; 10th October 2017 at 14:49.


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by sshakir411 View Post
    Azhar is a great player for Pakistan but Mamoon has some point. Azhar's 200 in Sydney is an example of an innings which was great and under very tough conditions..but impact-less. I remember telling my friend that this might be the only double ton I've seen that couldn't draw the game. I also think his SR even in tests really effects everyone else. While it's true that Azhar's SR should not effect how other's play but I think it has disadvantaged us.

    That said, I feel Azhar is total fighter. He has progressed far better than everyone and for that he should be recognized and appreciated. We need more of Azhar's personality in all our players. I think Azhar will end up overcoming his SR issue and will play score some big hundreds...abut I also hope he wins us many games. I also think he could end up being a decent odi opener.

    Funny I actually agree with Mamoon for the first time. Gotta give him points for always being genuine and having his own opinion. Unlike the other experts on here who literally cause a snore fest with their one-dimensional thinking.
    Who is their to support Azhar?No one.

    A strokemaker can only play freely if he has a assured batsman at the other end.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by ads101 View Post
    Wonder if we're being harsh on Azhar Ali though, when one of the best no.3s of all time Rahul Dravid batted at a similar strike rate.
    Comparision is faulty.Dravid had Sehwag Tendulkar Laxman Ganguly as strokemakets around him.He could afford to play his game.Infact his assured batting allowed the strokemakers to play freely.

  65. #65
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    @cricketjoshila You also claimed that Azhar only has the most runs because he has played the most innings, then the likes of Virat Kohli and Smith have a better average simply because they have played fewer innings which doesn't provide as much of an accurate reflection
    Last edited by Abdullah719; 10th October 2017 at 14:58.


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

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    The key word in OP is 'Impact': that's how he can help team Pakistan win matches or earn draws. (Which lately he is not and that too against SL )

    Who cares if he averages 60+ since X date etc etc. Those are individual stats

    PS: I am a big AA fan.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    @cricketjoshila You also claimed that Azhar only has the most runs because he has played the most innings, then the likes of Virat Kohli and Smith have a better average simply because they have played fewer innings which doesn't provide as much of an accurate reflection
    They also scored more runs which is reflected in the avg.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    They also scored more runs which is reflected in the avg.
    Pretty sure Azhar has the most runs from the link you posted earlier


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

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    This is a thread to keep an eye on this year. When Azhar is set he needs to show more intent . Can't afford him to be dead batting if he's on a 100 plus score.

    Big year for him to show he can handle the pressure of being the main batsmen.

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    How can the same poster consider Cook an ATG and does not consider Azhar even world class is beyond any logical reason.

  71. #71
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    Azhar is a good player, probably more like Pujara. An inferior version of Alastair Cook.

    However, Pakistan need couple of high quality middle order batsmen at 4 and 5 who are dynamic as well. Then his runs will have impact.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    How can the same poster consider Cook an ATG and does not consider Azhar even world class is beyond any logical reason.
    Apart from the fact that both are defensive-minded batsmen, there are no parallels between the two. Cook has been a world class performer for over 120 Tests, although over the last 25-30 Tests he has not been consistent and looks like he is in terminal decline now.

    On the other hand, Azhar was barely international class till the age of 31/32, before he had a couple of good seasons. He has too keep up his post 2016 performance for another 5-6 years to merit a comparison with Cook, who is one of the greatest modern openers of Test cricket.

    Cook is better than Azhar in every aspect of batting. Pace, swing, spin, concentration etc.

  73. #73
    Debut
    May 2012
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    This guy really is a dud. Batting at snail's pace and gets out oafter getting his 20. You can see the effect it's had on the other batsmen. He should simply be told to either strike it at 50 or leave. How hard is it to rotate strike and keep the pressure off after you've been an international player for like 8 years.
    Absolutely pathetic

  74. #74
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    Dec 2005
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    Azhar Ali precipitated the collapse today. Selfish batting, just dead batting for the sake of it. We are the laughing stock of the cricketing world when Azhar Ali is our best batsman

  75. #75
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    Mar 2016
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    That's why he can't bat at 3. Number 3 requires a dynamic player not someone who will dead bat even when he is set.

  76. #76
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    Nov 2015
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    One last series and then he should be out if he doesn't score.

  77. #77
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    Aug 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan123 View Post
    That's why he can't bat at 3. Number 3 requires a dynamic player not someone who will dead bat even when he is set.
    He looks so out of form that I'm not sure if he can score runs at any position currently.

    Right now his place for the SAF series is in jeopardy.

  78. #78
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    Mar 2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    He looks so out of form that I'm not sure if he can score runs at any position currently.

    Right now his place for the SAF series is in jeopardy.
    The county spell was supposed to keep him match fit. Doesn't seem to have done that.

  79. #79
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    Mar 2007
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    I think he’s finished.

  80. #80
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    Aug 2018
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    Wonder he will overcome this form slump. He always used to bat at a slow pace but was decent. But for the past year and a half he has had very little impact now that one thinks about it.


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