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  1. #1
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    If this is not the time to push the panic button then when?

    Embarrassing early exit from Asia cup, series loss to New Zealand in our fort. Now test loss to SA. We have captain , whos batting skill is not better than a street team player. We have " seniors" who score once in a blue moon. We have selector who is unwilling to bring new players as many youngster knocking at the door of national team. Pakistan team is really in awful situation and future looks dark.

    Is this not the time to take some bold action and make wholesome changes. Drop the "dead weights" from the team, bring on younger players. Appoint a younger captain. We might not start winning right away but hopefully have a better team in 2-3 years.

  2. #2
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    Test loss to SA in SA can''t be a reason for panic.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  3. #3
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    There’s never a good reason to push the panic button. Personally I think Pakistan is in great shape for all three formats of the game. A few tweaks (major) here or there will make the difference between winning and losing

  4. #4
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    Press it now before it's too late.

    Drop Sarfraz

    Drop Shafiq

  5. #5
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    Batting is the issue.

    Bowling is world-class IMO.

    Captaincy and tail is also a big issue.

  6. #6
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    Sarfaraz deserves to be kicked out for the complacency he has shown in his game since his golden run of 2014-2016 & his failure to really improve and kick on after the CT win of 2017

  7. #7
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    Personally I think the only thing that needs to change is that Sarfraz should be relieved of captaincy responsibilities as he is unable to do the job.

    That leaves him being a wicketkeeper and batsmen. I have no doubt in my mind that Sarfraz will play a much better game once he does not have to marshal 10 troops on the field. He MAY THINK he likes doing the job, but he doesn't. It is too much for him to keep his calm and cool when things are not going his way and hence the only way out is to honorably resign and let someone else do that job.

    Here would be my team if I had a chance.

    Imam (contrary to how many people hate him, the guy has a sensible head most of the times and seems okay in a weak team).
    Shan (I love people who improve and he has worked on his game).
    Azhar
    Babar
    Haris
    Fakhar
    Sarfraz (not as captain)
    Amir
    Yasir
    Hasan
    Shaheen

    The bowling is quite raw and looks weak but at least the batting on paper looks much better. There can be a case for Sarfraz to be dropped completely if his batting still flops but I am almost CENT percent sure, it will go on a tangential upward because he no longer has to take the blame for winning or losing. Some people are born leaders and some aren't. He clearly isn't one.

    The final question is who becomes the captain.

    I would throw the dice between Babar and Amir who are certain starters for the game no matter what.

    Anyone who has issues with seniority can be just thrown out.

    If such a team is played, it has much better chances of success.

    Panic button is not supposed to be pushed just the team order and responsibilities should be changed.
    Last edited by Dr_Bassim; 29th December 2018 at 12:16.


    And I get so high.. And I just can't feel it....

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Batting is the issue.

    Bowling is world-class IMO.

    Captaincy and tail is also a big issue.
    What kind of world class bowling struggles to take wickets on such bowling friendly tracks? seriously 149 was completely defendable, we lost due to the 119 run partnership for second wicket. Dont let bowling go under the carpet just because our batting is miserable.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zakaz View Post
    What kind of world class bowling struggles to take wickets on such bowling friendly tracks? seriously 149 was completely defendable, we lost due to the 119 run partnership for second wicket. Dont let bowling go under the carpet just because our batting is miserable.
    Its inexperienced.

    They need time.

    Its the batting that has had enough time and keeps failing beyond belief.


    And I get so high.. And I just can't feel it....

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Bassim View Post
    Its inexperienced.

    They need time.

    Its the batting that has had enough time and keeps failing beyond belief.
    Yes they are inexperienced but definitely not world class.

  11. #11
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    You can press panic button as many times as you want but nothing will change. We never had talent to produce batsman like Lara, Viv, Tandulqar, Kohli, Border etc and most likely will never will. Our batting can be improved a bit by dropping non-performing seniors but it will not be that great. That's the sad reality.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zakaz View Post
    What kind of world class bowling struggles to take wickets on such bowling friendly tracks? seriously 149 was completely defendable, we lost due to the 119 run partnership for second wicket. Dont let bowling go under the carpet just because our batting is miserable.
    Our bowling is pretty average. None of our bowlers' quality is as near as Steyn, Rabada, Philander or even Oliver. Any good batsman can negotiate our bowlers by leaving the moving balls. Our bowlers don't have any quality to trick or force batsmen to play and get caught behind.
    Last edited by Shafi; 29th December 2018 at 12:42.

  13. #13
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    A loss to South Africa in South Africa, mean the panic button should be pressed? Didn't you hypocrites vote for a 3-0 South Africa series win before the the series began?

    Pakistan gave South Africa as good a game as the number one team in the world did last year. Go figure.

    I'm disappointed by the collapse, which undid all our hard work, but where most of the forum wasn't expecting Pakistan to win even one session on this tour, we actually ended up outplaying South Africa for four of the eight sessions in this test.

  14. #14
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    One test loss in SA might have not been the huge concern but the biggest problem is Pakiatan team performance leading to this important series and selectors unwillingness to do anything about it . We all know Pakistan is paying the price of Sarfarazís few good knocks on placid UAE wickets years ago . Anyone with little know of cricket knows Sarfraz with his awful technique and fitnesses not going to get any better . He doesnít deserves to be in the team as a players rather than making him player and captain in all three forms .

    One sign of decline of Pakistan as a cricketing nation is the lack of passion for cricket , what it used to be . In the past there woul have been so much outcry on such a pathetic performance by selector and the captain that there was no chance they would continue without taking an action or resigning . Not now , we have the same selector and the captain after shameful losses in what used to be our fort UAE and now in SA .

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by moghul View Post
    One test loss in SA might have not been the huge concern but the biggest problem is Pakiatan team performance leading to this important series and selectors unwillingness to do anything about it . We all know Pakistan is paying the price of Sarfarazís few good knocks on placid UAE wickets years ago . Anyone with little know of cricket knows Sarfraz with his awful technique and fitnesses not going to get any better . He doesnít deserves to be in the team as a players rather than making him player and captain in all three forms .

    One sign of decline of Pakistan as a cricketing nation is the lack of passion for cricket , what it used to be . In the past there woul have been so much outcry on such a pathetic performance by selector and the captain that there was no chance they would continue without taking an action or resigning . Not now , we have the same selector and the captain after shameful losses in what used to be our fort UAE and now in SA .
    Because people have lost interest. I meet so many people day in and day out, duscussion on pak cricket team
    Is last priority. Because they lose more often than win. Upcoming world cup if it goes badly will further diminish interest. I personally have lost interest completely, thinkinh about not watching them for long long time.

  16. #16
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    Its too late for even the panic button.


    PAnic button should've been pushed when Pakistan lost to New Zealand in the 1st test by 4 runs.


    Sad to see the cricket situation in Pakistan as the Prime Minister of the country is a professional cricketer himself.

    There is no pressure on PCB to try to atleast show public that they are seriously tackling the issue.

    Pakistani batting has been collapsing almost every test match since Sept. 2017. A political alliance cabal is working in the team where the seniors get a free pass and are selected controversially before the start of their 2nd innings of the 3rd test [as it is expected they are going to face another collapse]. The chief selector thru some understanding pushes in his non-performing opener nephew in the team squad also,
    The whole world is fed up with Sarfraz as captain but the replacement options are even more despicable. ASad Shafiq is second in line and worse than the captain.

    Azhar Ali is the 3rd option who had his stint and the only ODI captain of Pakistan that pushed Pakistan's rankings to the lowest when he was leading the side. Made Pakistan team a punching bag in 2016 where opponents made not only scores but records [England hitting highest 444 total].

    I don't remember last time after Younis retirement when Pakistan batted more than 5 sessions. Pakistani batsman can't even bat to save themselves even. The debut players have shown more application and maturity compared to the seniors yet they are not given proper opportunity. The chief selector has literally ignored all batting options in the domestic setup esp. in opening as his club level nephew has to be justified a place.

    All this is going on and there is not even a squeak from PCB chairman Ehsan Mani or the Pakistan Govt. who in a way is allowing all these mafias to do what they want and play with Pakistani cricket fans' emotions.
    Last edited by Khwaja78; 29th December 2018 at 21:47.

  17. #17
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    ' wholesome changes' would do no good. Neither will panicking. Deadweights players will be replaces by other useless players. Our system is all wrong. Pipeline is brocken.

  18. #18
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    Most teams would lose tests to Southern Afrikaan in Southern Afrikaan Its nothing to panic. Pakistan fought and with bit more runs it could have been tye other way around.

    Dont lose hope my brothers.

    Bhaijaan

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Rose View Post
    There’s never a good reason to push the panic button. Personally I think Pakistan is in great shape for all three formats of the game. A few tweaks (major) here or there will make the difference between winning and losing
    Totally agree.
    I've said this a few times and will say it again. Our 6 test defeats since misyou retirement should have been staves off by Asad Azhar and sarfaraz where we bombed most of them from winning positions. We are getting quite far ahead in the games , even in the defeats


    If you always do what you have always done, you will always get what you always got #improve

  20. #20
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    It was when we lost home tests to NZ

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah View Post
    Totally agree.
    I've said this a few times and will say it again. Our 6 test defeats since misyou retirement should have been staves off by Asad Azhar and sarfaraz where we bombed most of them from winning positions. We are getting quite far ahead in the games , even in the defeats
    Absolutely, agree. I see somewhere in the press that Mani has weighed in as well shown faith behind captain and coach. In a tactical sense, this is very good of him. Pakistan has serious issues in medium term with Sarfaraz and Asad, but at the moment it’s right to back these guys. And take the hard decisions post tour. Having said that, I think they should bench Asad if he is not mentally there. I blv Mickey when he says these guys train hard, but the manner of his dismissals in both innings showed a cricketer lacking confidence

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Rose View Post
    Absolutely, agree. I see somewhere in the press that Mani has weighed in as well shown faith behind captain and coach. In a tactical sense, this is very good of him. Pakistan has serious issues in medium term with Sarfaraz and Asad, but at the moment it’s right to back these guys. And take the hard decisions post tour. Having said that, I think they should bench Asad if he is not mentally there. I blv Mickey when he says these guys train hard, but the manner of his dismissals in both innings showed a cricketer lacking confidence
    And he was coming off a hundred in his last Test match. Says it all really.


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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by moghul View Post
    Embarrassing early exit from Asia cup, series loss to New Zealand in our fort. Now test loss to SA. We have captain , whos batting skill is not better than a street team player. We have " seniors" who score once in a blue moon. We have selector who is unwilling to bring new players as many youngster knocking at the door of national team. Pakistan team is really in awful situation and future looks dark.

    Is this not the time to take some bold action and make wholesome changes. Drop the "dead weights" from the team, bring on younger players. Appoint a younger captain. We might not start winning right away but hopefully have a better team in 2-3 years.
    There won't be any change before the WC and it makes sense. If management/selectors really wanted a change, would have done the tinkering right after CT but selectors/fans alike were in cloud9 after CT win. When reality hit, panic button talks started to pop up.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffet View Post
    Test loss to SA in SA can''t be a reason for panic.
    True. But the manner PAK surrendered this Test was simply unacceptable. If you analyze the game, SAF actually played one of their worst game - under-strength and shaky, yet won it inside 8 sessions and quite comfortably.

    Don't get me wrong here - SAF at home is never an easy opponent, but look at the events. Had Styen-Rabada knocked PAK to 57/5 at lunch, I can understand - but they went to lunch at 2 down and then this guy Dunnie cleans the middle order with a 35 overs old Kookaburra!!!! Had Phi been fit, chances are high that Olieviera won't have played this Test. PAK's first innings 181 is bluffing, built on a desperate counter attack by Babar, otherwise it was like 7-8 down inside 125. This is after opting to bat first!!!!

    Next innings - SAF were 44-4 with most of their batting experience back, an out of form Kok and a tail, probably weakest in SAF's history since returning in 1992...... yet, from 105-5, they reached 227, that too splited by a night's break. Ideally, PAK attack should have cleaned the tail inside 170 after overnight rest, if not inside 150.

    3rd Innings - effectively at 62-1, with 2 set batsmen in and the Kookaburra 29 overs old, SAF went to Tea facing a target of 250+ at least, if not 300+ .... within an hour it became 100-6, then 120-8!!!!! And, that too when No. 3 was holding one end. Apart from Amir's dismissal, and may be Babar's ball, which of the other 5 were bowlers' wicket? Azhar, Asad, Sarfraz should hide in shame for their display - doesn't matter it's Styen, Rabada, Oliveira or some nobody - hardly any of those balls deserved a wicket. These 30+ players with 10+ years of experience were panicking like homeless kids under the pressure of expectation!!!!

    Come to 4th innings - 148, by any means isn't an easy target in SAF, even more at Centurion (check some FC scores there), and the wicket was just 2 days old, still fresh, still green with added cracks on it. Did PAK bowled well enough to the purpose - may be, I give a BoD. Was their enough pressure created, absolutely no way - I wrote it during game thread - 48 of first 58 runs from Boundaries, when one should make every run hard earned. Was there any tactics from PAK Captain - simply no, he was chasing the game when he had 148 to defend!!!!! Finally, they dropped a crucial catch, which shows lack of intensity. Only, only space I can give PAK team in the entire Test is that they were hard done by a crucial catch call, which could have made this game really interesting.

    Don't go by the result - losing by 4 wickets to SAF in SAF will never tell how poor PAK executed the game on field. This is probably a bigger concern than losing the 3rd Test to NZ in UAE - those who understands cricket won't ever put PAK as favorite in UAE, batting 2nd against probably any team; but this Test is definitely time not to push, rather bang on the panic button - may not be in between Series, but going back home there should be several heads rolled, starting from the biggest con artist - PCB's Chief Selector.

  25. #25
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    To be honest, PCB has been probably the board who has tried out most options than any other. But no players could fill the void that is hampering. The problem is at grass root.

    And it will take at least 6-7 years to reap the results even if it starts from today. You can not change the culture in a day. Generation by generation, you will have to make them change the attitude and then you will have a crop that will withstand and survive.

    Take an example of bowlers in India. We were laughing stock once. But since 2007 onwards, the domestic structure has been changed which played a vital role in shaping up the next generation.

    We are far from the target. But we are on track.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usman Chadda View Post
    A loss to South Africa in South Africa, mean the panic button should be pressed? Didn't you hypocrites vote for a 3-0 South Africa series win before the the series began?

    Pakistan gave South Africa as good a game as the number one team in the world did last year. Go figure.

    I'm disappointed by the collapse, which undid all our hard work, but where most of the forum wasn't expecting Pakistan to win even one session on this tour, we actually ended up outplaying South Africa for four of the eight sessions in this test.
    We picked SA to win 3-0 but not within 2 days of play where your team couldn't even bat 30 odd overs.

    What's there to laugh about? I want to laugh too.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by LegendAli View Post
    We picked SA to win 3-0 but not within 2 days of play where your team couldn't even bat 30 odd overs.

    What's there to laugh about? I want to laugh too.
    So you expected anything better on this wicket, where even South African batsmen struggled and required a decent amount of luck to win the test?

    Pakistan won four out of the eight sessions, they were not outplayed. They were actually in a position to dominate, until they threw away the advantage in vintage Pakistan style. I really was not expecting this team to be in a position to dominate, neither were you Iím certain

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shafi View Post
    You can press panic button as many times as you want but nothing will change. We never had talent to produce batsman like Lara, Viv, Tandulqar, Kohli, Border etc and most likely will never will. Our batting can be improved a bit by dropping non-performing seniors but it will not be that great. That's the sad reality.
    These are once in a generation players, but we have produced the likes of Miandad, Saleem Malik, Inzi, MoYo, Anwar and YK in the not too distant past.

    But another major issue, is that our batting is metally fragile and collapse like a pack of cards. Need some characters in the team. Guys like Azhar and Shafiq are just too timid to be leading the side as seniors.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kroll View Post
    These are once in a generation players, but we have produced the likes of Miandad, Saleem Malik, Inzi, MoYo, Anwar and YK in the not too distant past.

    But another major issue, is that our batting is metally fragile and collapse like a pack of cards. Need some characters in the team. Guys like Azhar and Shafiq are just too timid to be leading the side as seniors.
    Yeah guys like MoYo and YK did not become stars overnight unlike Inzi maybe.

    We need to invest in the right players. There may be batsmen in the domestic or U19 level who can takeover. We need to identify them and back them.

  30. #30
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    There will be no point if we were to panic. Pak Cricket has always been like musical chairs, faces come and go but nothing changes. We have tried the tactic of bringing in younger players many times that doesn't work. When we're not producing classy batsmen in domestic Cricket they won't do the business at international level.


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by PakLFC View Post
    There will be no point if we were to panic. Pak Cricket has always been like musical chairs, faces come and go but nothing changes. We have tried the tactic of bringing in younger players many times that doesn't work. When we're not producing classy batsmen in domestic Cricket they won't do the business at international level.
    I dont think we have tried too many young batsmen at test level in recent years..,

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by gazza619 View Post
    I dont think we have tried too many young batsmen at test level in recent years..,
    Sohaib Maqsood even Umar Akmal come to mind. There was a lad called Salahuddin as well. Many others will come to my mind later. They just don't do it!


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

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    It's simple - to keep selecting guys with average FC records and ask them to overachieve at a much harder level in Test cricket is asking for trouble. Asad Shafiq is a prime example but because he "looks good at the crease" he is given a free pass.

    We must go back to basics, look at the numbers, and reward the top domestic performers.

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    In Pakistan cricket you just throw players in the sea and itís up to them to swim or sink. Itís serious chaos and only very strong personalities have gone on to become greats. Until we donít get players whoíre smart and aware of whatís required to be serious athletes in todayís world we wonít become world beaters.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    It's simple - to keep selecting guys with average FC records and ask them to overachieve at a much harder level in Test cricket is asking for trouble. Asad Shafiq is a prime example but because he "looks good at the crease" he is given a free pass.

    We must go back to basics, look at the numbers, and reward the top domestic performers.
    I think Asad's first break in sixty odd tests has finally come. There's no way he's not going to be benched for next test, unless off course Haris stays unfit. Azhar's performance has been better recently and Sarfaraz can't be dropped being captain. So Mickey's axe is most likely going to fall on Asad. Let's see how he takes being on bench for a change. And if that's not the necessary impetus for him to get his head straight, nothing will be.

  36. #36
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    If it takes a 3-0 humiliation to drop the plague of lethargic and incompetent players and staff, so be it.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    True. But the manner PAK surrendered this Test was simply unacceptable. If you analyze the game, SAF actually played one of their worst game - under-strength and shaky, yet won it inside 8 sessions and quite comfortably.

    Don't get me wrong here - SAF at home is never an easy opponent, but look at the events. Had Styen-Rabada knocked PAK to 57/5 at lunch, I can understand - but they went to lunch at 2 down and then this guy Dunnie cleans the middle order with a 35 overs old Kookaburra!!!! Had Phi been fit, chances are high that Olieviera won't have played this Test. PAK's first innings 181 is bluffing, built on a desperate counter attack by Babar, otherwise it was like 7-8 down inside 125. This is after opting to bat first!!!!

    Next innings - SAF were 44-4 with most of their batting experience back, an out of form Kok and a tail, probably weakest in SAF's history since returning in 1992...... yet, from 105-5, they reached 227, that too splited by a night's break. Ideally, PAK attack should have cleaned the tail inside 170 after overnight rest, if not inside 150.

    3rd Innings - effectively at 62-1, with 2 set batsmen in and the Kookaburra 29 overs old, SAF went to Tea facing a target of 250+ at least, if not 300+ .... within an hour it became 100-6, then 120-8!!!!! And, that too when No. 3 was holding one end. Apart from Amir's dismissal, and may be Babar's ball, which of the other 5 were bowlers' wicket? Azhar, Asad, Sarfraz should hide in shame for their display - doesn't matter it's Styen, Rabada, Oliveira or some nobody - hardly any of those balls deserved a wicket. These 30+ players with 10+ years of experience were panicking like homeless kids under the pressure of expectation!!!!

    Come to 4th innings - 148, by any means isn't an easy target in SAF, even more at Centurion (check some FC scores there), and the wicket was just 2 days old, still fresh, still green with added cracks on it. Did PAK bowled well enough to the purpose - may be, I give a BoD. Was their enough pressure created, absolutely no way - I wrote it during game thread - 48 of first 58 runs from Boundaries, when one should make every run hard earned. Was there any tactics from PAK Captain - simply no, he was chasing the game when he had 148 to defend!!!!! Finally, they dropped a crucial catch, which shows lack of intensity. Only, only space I can give PAK team in the entire Test is that they were hard done by a crucial catch call, which could have made this game really interesting.

    Don't go by the result - losing by 4 wickets to SAF in SAF will never tell how poor PAK executed the game on field. This is probably a bigger concern than losing the 3rd Test to NZ in UAE - those who understands cricket won't ever put PAK as favorite in UAE, batting 2nd against probably any team; but this Test is definitely time not to push, rather bang on the panic button - may not be in between Series, but going back home there should be several heads rolled, starting from the biggest con artist - PCB's Chief Selector.
    I do see your point, but Pakistani bowlers lack experience. That's why they can't keep bowling in good channel. SA batting is horrible right now and a disciplined bowling attack may have won the game.

    As far as Pakistani batting goes, I expect collapse from them every alternate game. In SA, may be every game.

    Sarf is a poor captain, but it's not something new discovered during this test. He shouldn't be captaining the side at all.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    Come to 4th innings - 148, by any means isn't an easy target in SAF, even more at Centurion (check some FC scores there), and the wicket was just 2 days old, still fresh, still green with added cracks on it. Did PAK bowled well enough to the purpose - may be, I give a BoD. Was their enough pressure created, absolutely no way - I wrote it during game thread - 48 of first 58 runs from Boundaries, when one should make every run hard earned. Was there any tactics from PAK Captain - simply no, he was chasing the game when he had 148 to defend!!!!! Finally, they dropped a crucial catch, which shows lack of intensity. Only, only space I can give PAK team in the entire Test is that they were hard done by a crucial catch call, which could have made this game really interesting.

    Don't go by the result - losing by 4 wickets to SAF in SAF will never tell how poor PAK executed the game on field. This is probably a bigger concern than losing the 3rd Test to NZ in UAE - those who understands cricket won't ever put PAK as favorite in UAE, batting 2nd against probably any team; but this Test is definitely time not to push, rather bang on the panic button - may not be in between Series, but going back home there should be several heads rolled, starting from the biggest con artist - PCB's Chief Selector.
    everything uptil this part is reasonable. This part is all subjective conjecture. Boundary % was high throughout the game. the dropped catch and third umpire's re-interpretation of the laws contributed. This heads rolling stuff, I am afraid you have spent too much time on PP.

  39. #39
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    Mickey losing his patience with Azhar, Asad and Sarfaraz is a positive sign. Give him a squad of pure youngsters and he might be able to get something out of it and will have all eleven players buying into his fitness and hard work regime.

    Azhar and Asad just conned everyone under Misbah and now they have no where to hide anymore. We wasted Umar Akmal for these guys.

  40. #40
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    No need to panic after this loss. Pakistan actually underperformed and were one in driving position. Panic should have been about humiliating losses at UAE, one after another.


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