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  1. #1
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    Worrying signs in Pakistan cricket

    A player who was not even in the squad for Pakistan A is drafted in at the last minute and makes the starting XI, ahead of others who were in the squad and instead had to carry the drinks and towels.

    A 17 man squad is announced for a 2 Test series and then suddenly another player is added to the squad, making the original squad announcement look like a mockery.

    What is going on? Confusion, muddled thinking, influence and chaos.



  2. #2
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    no, I think Hafeez performance in QA trophy earned him his place in the team. I think he is a worthy inclusion.

  3. #3
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    This has been the Pakistan i have ever known. Only thing is that the quality of talent coming through is not up to mark.

    Great Imran says many times Pakistan is a nation which used to produce world class talent despite the system and not because of the system. Things have always been very casual and chaotic it seems. People are just coming to realize its the talent that seems to be lacking in this generation.

    30 years ago, a teenager wanted to be the best in the world he was lucky to play under a great leader and became the great Wasim Akram. Today a Hasan Ali wears a silly gold chain with his celebration pose around his neck not even in his 2nd year in Cricket. Thats the difference bro. Priorities.
    Last edited by Saj; 2nd October 2018 at 20:24.

  4. #4
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    History teaches us: abrupt call of unknowns directly in the National team became SUPER stars. Ws, Ms, Is, Ss etc.
    +++
    The Good:
    Don't worry. This is in "A" team. Not the original squad. Who knows, you might unearth a star.

    The Bad:
    Not a Star but just a planet. No light coming out. Ends the next level aspiration. No harm done on the National squad.

    The Ugly:
    Uncle relationship or worse yet Money involved (Asian team - so can't rule out any possibility) (Speculation of course.)
    Last edited by BD-fan; 2nd October 2018 at 20:26.


    Forgive when you are on top. Don't you want to be forgiven?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by freelance_cricketer View Post
    This has been the Pakistan i have ever known. Only thing is that the quality of talent coming through is not up to mark.

    Great Imran says many times Pakistan is a nation which used to produce world class talent despite the system and not because of the system. Things have always been very casual and chaotic it seems. People are just coming to realize its the talent that seems to be lacking in this generation.

    30 years ago, a teenager wanted to be the best in the world he was lucky to play under a great leader and became the great Wasim Akram. Today a Hasan Ali wears a silly gold chain with his celebration pose around his neck not even in his 2nd year in Cricket. Thats the difference bro. Priorities.
    Keyboard warriors don't realize the amount of sifarish, connections it takes to make into Domestic sides and to enter into the equation of Pakistan Cricket. Waqar, Inzamam wouldn't be here today had it not been for Imran's eye.

    Irfan wouldn't have had his career for Pakistan had it not been for PP. There are so many such people out there who need a jack.

    Besides times have now changed, domestic pays are too low, have in fact declined and not kept up with inflation. A person struggling in cricket has other alternatives to make some more money compared to struggling in Cricket. I bet a lot of domestic cricketers do part time jobs to keep themselves afloat.

  6. #6
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    But to add, Cricket has now changed. Just having raw talent is not enough now. With the amount of Technical, video analysis, modern nutrition and fitness standards, raw talent will fall behind if there is no hard work, work ethic behind it as we have seen with so many of our players.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    But to add, Cricket has now changed. Just having raw talent is not enough now. With the amount of Technical, video analysis, modern nutrition and fitness standards, raw talent will fall behind if there is no hard work, work ethic behind it as we have seen with so many of our players.
    Important thing for the players these days other than working hard is to stay humble and not let the success get to their heads.

  8. #8
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    There would have been a few of us who would've thought we had turned a corner after the epic CT win, but we have come crashing back into the barriers after our dismal failures in NZ and the Asia Cup. Hopefully, things do improve otherwise when we look back those great innings such as the Ijaz Ahmad 139 a couple of decades back; these will ultimately become more folklore than things that we were once capable of.

  9. #9
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    Fact of the matter is that if there was a spin-bowling all-rounder who was reliable with both ball and bat, he would have been selected in the squad inplace of Hafeez.

    Hafeez represents a short-term solution but brings great balance to the side in UAE conditions. Not only is he a proven performer on those pitches but his bowling brings a new dimension to the bowling attack. With Yasir Shah, Hafeez and one of Bilal Asif or Shadab Khan, the Australians are bound to have a tough time.

    That said, he must not under any circumstances be selected for overseas tours or at the very least for tours outside Asia. The PCB should be smart enough to know by now that he is a home-track bully who bats like a literal tail-ender once the ball starts moving around even a the slightest bit. It's a double-edged sword but I think they should persist with Hafeez till he's playing but ONLY in UAE.

  10. #10
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    It'll be a bit rough patch for next few months, but after WC, I think ZIM is due in PAK (or PAK in ZIM) - things will be again in upward curve.

    Just about 2-3 months back I read few posts of Golden era, bright future .... don't think one Asia Cup should dampen the spirit that much.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedwoodOriginal View Post
    Fact of the matter is that if there was a spin-bowling all-rounder who was reliable with both ball and bat, he would have been selected in the squad inplace of Hafeez.

    Hafeez represents a short-term solution but brings great balance to the side in UAE conditions. Not only is he a proven performer on those pitches but his bowling brings a new dimension to the bowling attack. With Yasir Shah, Hafeez and one of Bilal Asif or Shadab Khan, the Australians are bound to have a tough time.

    That said, he must not under any circumstances be selected for overseas tours or at the very least for tours outside Asia. The PCB should be smart enough to know by now that he is a home-track bully who bats like a literal tail-ender once the ball starts moving around even a the slightest bit. It's a double-edged sword but I think they should persist with Hafeez till he's playing but ONLY in UAE.
    People going on and on about Hafeez are forgetting that he has been called for a suspect action atleast 3-4 times in the last 3 years. It is fine to clear your bowling action in these tests but when the overs pile up, your body wears and tears and you return back to your old action.

    Can Hafeez's bowling action hold up for 10-15 overs plus a day? Secondly will he be effective with a remodelled action?

  12. #12
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    Just one tournament guyz. Before that Pakistan drew the test series with England. Surely not too many things can go wrong?

  13. #13
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    It will be good for us to enter underdogs in WC 2019

  14. #14
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    Who was added to Pakistan A squad?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ezy9 View Post
    Who was added to Pakistan A squad?
    Shan Masood.



  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhaag Viru Bhaag View Post
    Important thing for the players these days other than working hard is to stay humble and not let the success get to their heads.
    I reckon prior to the Asia Cup success had gotten to Fahim, Shadab and Hasan. Put it down to the naivety of youth but all 3 seem far too concerned about their self-image to have remained grounded.

  17. #17
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    Even inzi can’t keep out Shaan Masood
    Where is the commitment?Imam gets fast tracked while others toiling hard dont get anything
    Inzi says we got Masood in Asia cup becuase his last season was good
    Where is Fawad ? Even in UAE he isn’t getting any chances
    Hafeez was needed in Asia cup but was kept out then brought now
    It’s all mess with no transparency no proper justification in selecting one and keeping out other


    New Era of Team Pakistan

  18. #18
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    The upcoming generation just isn't interested in Cricket.

    They are obsessed with soccer

    Pakistan will eventually become a minnow.

  19. #19
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    Speaking with some of the younger upand coming players and all they seem to be bothered about are PSL contracts. They frankly couldn't care less if they played QEA Trophy or List A cricket or for their country.

    The usual wording is "can you let your PSL contacts know about me."



  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saj View Post
    Speaking with some of the younger upand coming players and all they seem to be bothered about are PSL contracts. They frankly couldn't care less if they played QEA Trophy or List A cricket or for their country.

    The usual wording is "can you let your PSL contacts know about me."
    Not sure why this is seen as a negative. The IPL hasn't hurt India, even they went through the initial phase where young cricketers were hungry for IPL contracts.

    The PCB and regional associations and the private sector needs to pump money into domestic cricket, why would a young aspiring cricketer waste himself in earning pittance from domestic cricket when he has other options now.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    People going on and on about Hafeez are forgetting that he has been called for a suspect action atleast 3-4 times in the last 3 years. It is fine to clear your bowling action in these tests but when the overs pile up, your body wears and tears and you return back to your old action.

    Can Hafeez's bowling action hold up for 10-15 overs plus a day? Secondly will he be effective with a remodelled action?
    This is a very valid concern. Personally I think he's not that effective with his remodelled action(s) and so he regularly goes back to chucking and alternates between chucking and bowling with his remodelled action. Unfortunately umpires eventually catch him at which point he gets reported again.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhaag Viru Bhaag View Post
    Important thing for the players these days other than working hard is to stay humble and not let the success get to their heads.
    "these days"??
    So was it okay in the old days?

  23. #23
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    When have there not been worrying signs in Pak Cricket?. A player just plucked out from nowhere suggests nepotism at work again.


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saj View Post
    Speaking with some of the younger upand coming players and all they seem to be bothered about are PSL contracts. They frankly couldn't care less if they played QEA Trophy or List A cricket or for their country.

    The usual wording is "can you let your PSL contacts know about me."
    Can't really blame them.

    They have greater chances of getting a PSL contract than playing for Pakistan with all the corruption going on.

    Plus they'd make a better living through a PSL contract.

    If I was a cricketer I'd aim for IPL/PSL/CPL contracts as well if my board was corrupt.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saj View Post
    Speaking with some of the younger upand coming players and all they seem to be bothered about are PSL contracts. They frankly couldn't care less if they played QEA Trophy or List A cricket or for their country.

    The usual wording is "can you let your PSL contacts know about me."
    Isn't the PSL a sure shot ticket to international cricket? I'm sure the youngster realizes he has next to no chance in breaking into the national team through just performing in the QeA trophy. But hit a few 20s or 30s in PSL or take a few wickets here and there, and you might be a shoe-in into the national team.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saj View Post
    Speaking with some of the younger upand coming players and all they seem to be bothered about are PSL contracts. They frankly couldn't care less if they played QEA Trophy or List A cricket or for their country.

    The usual wording is "can you let your PSL contacts know about me."
    You can't blame them when their efforts accumulated in a whole season only pay 1% of what they could earn in a month long PSL. For example if they got a $30,000 PSL contract, I doubt they would even earn $3,000 from contract and match fees from playing in QEA + LOI tournaments in Pakistan.

    This burning desire from the young Pakistani cricketers to make a name for themselves in PSL is not such a bad thing in the future since the highest quality of domestic cricket happens to come from this tournament when you consider:

    1. Quality of coaches - Mickey Arthur, Tom Moody and etc rather than some nepotistic selection who doesn't hold any coaching qualifications nor any cricketing experience at a high level.

    2. Better televised coverage - I think the importance of this can easily be underestimated but one must appreciate it provides a more ideal platform for recognition of top performers. The coverage on Pakistani channels for domestic matches in Pakistan are so bad it is like watching a cricket game from the 80s and the lack of technology used makes it harder to analyse players.

    3. Lesser teams - to boost the average talent pool per team enabling better quality and more competitive cricket among the best players in the country.

    4. Rubbing shoulders with world class/legendary players outside Pakistan as we've seen with Luke Ronchi, Gayle, KP, Jason Roy, Bairstow, McCullum, Narine, Andre Russell et al. Some of these names may have under performed but their experience and knowledge is invaluable for the more inexperienced players.

    Sharjeel, Hasan Ali, Fakhar and Shadab are all PSL finds. If they was no PSL they may have been rotting in domestics today without being called up to the international side. Not to forget the latter trio played pivotal roles in the CT win. PSL will continue to be the pipeline for T20I and ODI sides not the other awful List A and T20 domestic tournaments.

    About 5-6 back I was watching on Sky - Dominic Cork and Robert Key were talking about the future of test cricket. They came up with the theory that test selections will be on the basis of performances in IPL and other T20 leagues citing the evolution of David Warner.

    For those who aren't aware, he started as a T20 cricketer who didn't even play FC matches, but after the Australian think tank liked what they saw of him in the shortest form of the game, they came up with some innovative thinking and gave him the chance to express his natural game in all formats with guidance on subtle adjustments required in accordance to the format of the game. He is now a fine batsman in all formats and for me the most destructive on Aussie soil because of his ability to score tons consistently and rapidly.

    At the time of watching the programme I must admit this theory was absurd and merely thought Warner was an exception but when I saw Buttler how he performed earlier this summer on the back of a successful IPL and other IPL stars like Bumrah, I believe the theory has already come in to fruition with top teams i.e. SA, Eng, NZ, Aus and India (aka SENAI).

    The defensive and attrition styles of batting from the likes of Azhar Ali, Pujara (when he bats outside the SC), Cook (who just retired) and etc are the among the last generation of a rare breed of players because in the coming years, I envisage the top test teams will be dominated by batsmen who can score their runs quickly at 60+ strike rate.

    It is about time Pakistan think thank and fans to embrace the end product of T20 leagues otherwise we will continue to fall behind SENAI.
    Last edited by topspin; 3rd October 2018 at 20:33.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ned Flanders View Post
    Can't really blame them.

    They have greater chances of getting a PSL contract than playing for Pakistan with all the corruption going on.

    Plus they'd make a better living through a PSL contract.

    If I was a cricketer I'd aim for IPL/PSL/CPL contracts as well if my board was corrupt.
    Makes sense . As a young cricketer the probability of getting San t20 league contract is higher as you can aim to get into one of many teams as opposed to probability of getting into one sole national team ...corruption or no corruption

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ned Flanders View Post
    Can't really blame them.

    They have greater chances of getting a PSL contract than playing for Pakistan with all the corruption going on.

    Plus they'd make a better living through a PSL contract.

    If I was a cricketer I'd aim for IPL/PSL/CPL contracts as well if my board was corrupt.
    The point being that they are more concerned about playing T20 cricket rather than Test cricket for their country. Meaning that technique is an afterthought and that isn't healthy for Pakistan cricket in the long term.



  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saj View Post
    A player who was not even in the squad for Pakistan A is drafted in at the last minute and makes the starting XI, ahead of others who were in the squad and instead had to carry the drinks and towels.

    A 17 man squad is announced for a 2 Test series and then suddenly another player is added to the squad, making the original squad announcement look like a mockery.

    What is going on? Confusion, muddled thinking, influence and chaos.
    Inzi has screwed up big time "pal mai tola pal mai masha" urdu proverb for him

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usman Chadda View Post
    Isn't the PSL a sure shot ticket to international cricket? I'm sure the youngster realizes he has next to no chance in breaking into the national team through just performing in the QeA trophy. But hit a few 20s or 30s in PSL or take a few wickets here and there, and you might be a shoe-in into the national team.
    agreed; look at Saad Ali for example; should have debut for Pakistan Test and ODI team by now but since he has not played in PSL yet he is not getting chance to represent Pakistan

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by srh View Post
    agreed; look at Saad Ali for example; should have debut for Pakistan Test and ODI team by now but since he has not played in PSL yet he is not getting chance to represent Pakistan
    There are a lot of good perfomers in QeA trophy who probably will never get a look in until they get picked up by a PSL team. And here I'm talking about seasoned first-class cricketers. Kashif Bhatti comes to mind as the perfect example.

    For a youngster it's either the Pakistan team or one of the PSL teams. That's the goal. When you devalue your domestic cricket as much, you shouldn't be surprised if every young player wants to be a T20 player. The sad part is we are even struggling to produce tullaybaaz, since the juniors are struggling to score at even 4 RPO against Bangladesh and Sri Lanka

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usman Chadda View Post
    There are a lot of good perfomers in QeA trophy who probably will never get a look in until they get picked up by a PSL team. And here I'm talking about seasoned first-class cricketers. Kashif Bhatti comes to mind as the perfect example.

    For a youngster it's either the Pakistan team or one of the PSL teams. That's the goal. When you devalue your domestic cricket as much, you shouldn't be surprised if every young player wants to be a T20 player. The sad part is we are even struggling to produce tullaybaaz, since the juniors are struggling to score at even 4 RPO against Bangladesh and Sri Lanka
    if we value tullaybaaz like Asif or fake all-rounders like Nawaz / Shadab over genuine specialist players then these things will happen

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by srh View Post
    if we value tullaybaaz like Asif or fake all-rounders like Nawaz / Shadab over genuine specialist players then these things will happen
    Think the selectors need to start appreciating QeA trophy. We have players in our national team at the moment with average domestic stats or hardly any first-class experience. It's a miracle our national team even competes

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saj View Post
    The point being that they are more concerned about playing T20 cricket rather than Test cricket for their country. Meaning that technique is an afterthought and that isn't healthy for Pakistan cricket in the long term.
    A proper defensive technique doesn't pay the bills.

    It's not fair to judge underpaid cricketers looking to make some money when most of us regular folks on here ourselves have changed jobs for better pay checks. Why should there be a different moral standard for sportsmen?
    Last edited by the_outsider; 4th October 2018 at 00:34.

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    Saj if you have been following Pakistan cricket for the past 2 decades, you would have noticed that Pakistan team selection has always been about confusion and muddled thinking. Even when we were at peak there were random selection decisions.

    As a matter of fact nowadays I see less confusion and players get a longer run to prove their metal. And I can bet on the fact that Mickey and Sarfaraz are pretty clear on who they want and who they dont want, it is Inzi who is causing panic in selection matters.

  36. #36
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    There has to be a special category for the Top Pak U-19 players and the top Pak domestic performers where each franchise is required to pick 2 from each category and select atleast 1 from each category per match. This will go a long way towards picking up some of the top domestic performers in the PSL.

  37. #37
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    Mickey will not learn.
    He himself is to blame for the whole scenario.
    He wants to include faheem ashraf with 2 more pacers.
    And when he saw Australian playing well against pace, he called hafeez for spin bowling all-rounder

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunny_majoka View Post
    Mickey will not learn.
    He himself is to blame for the whole scenario.
    He wants to include faheem ashraf with 2 more pacers.
    And when he saw Australian playing well against pace, he called hafeez for spin bowling all-rounder
    I would call it quick thinking, he could have stuck with the pacers and the results would have been unfavourable, was that accepatable for you?

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozeirk View Post
    I would call it quick thinking, he could have stuck with the pacers and the results would have been unfavourable, was that accepatable for you?
    Instead he should have Called a specialist spinner like Zafar gohar,
    Are you sure hafeez can bowl at least 10 over in a day with legal action?

  40. #40
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    Indians giving debut to the likes of Shaw. Meanwhile, Pak fans are busy hyping the likes of Haris & Pak selectors have recalled a 37yr old TTF Hafeez. How embarrassing. The gulf in talent between the two nations is massive.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_outsider View Post
    A proper defensive technique doesn't pay the bills.

    It's not fair to judge underpaid cricketers looking to make some money when most of us regular folks on here ourselves have changed jobs for better pay checks. Why should there be a different moral standard for sportsmen?
    Well said.

    If we want better techniques we should start paying players more for playing in domestic first class matches.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by in_cutter View Post
    Indians giving debut to the likes of Shaw. Meanwhile, Pak fans are busy hyping the likes of Haris & Pak selectors have recalled a 37yr old TTF Hafeez. How embarrassing. The gulf in talent between the two nations is massive.
    Shadab, Hasan, Babar are all youngsters. They already delivered during an important tournament for Pakistan. Just a couple of bad series shoudn't make us believe we don't have talent or that we are useless in cricket. Players will eventually come good. Wait and watch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shandarchowka View Post
    Shadab, Hasan, Babar are all youngsters. They already delivered during an important tournament for Pakistan. Just a couple of bad series shoudn't make us believe we don't have talent or that we are useless in cricket. Players will eventually come good. Wait and watch.
    No denying that those guys are talented. I meant specifically how we keep relying TTF’s Hafeez & co. It’s a shambles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhaag Viru Bhaag View Post
    Important thing for the players these days other than working hard is to stay humble and not let the success get to their heads.
    A humble guy with no talent wouldn't do any good either.
    We are also lacking in the talent and skills department.
    Shadab, Hasan and maybe Faheem have started to act like superstars yet it is still uncertain if they have the requisite set of skills to stay on the top. Like the unseen force John Cena said, "It's not about getting to the top, it's about staying there"

    Of the new breed, Rumman is the one guy who has been very humble and down to earth, his statements are very measured and didn't let his transient success 2016-17 get to his head. I believe he should be the leader of our attack in T20is, whereas his abilities in the other formats are questionable.
    Plus he seems to be a very good tactician as he displayed in his brief captaincy stint in PSL last year.

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    What really disappointed me in Asia Cup was the confused state our players seemed to be in. Mickey keeps saying Fakhar needs to go after the bowling from bowl 1 and not worry about getting out. Fakhar didn't seem to accept the decision by heart though as he looked like he wanted to set in the first 10 overs and then accelerate. Maybe Mickey is treating Fakhar as a pinch hitter which he is not. He looked most assured in that second Indian game where he started to look his ownself after 10th over, yet in the next match he was again out slogging in the first over.

    Similarly, Babar says he is told that he needs to bat through the 50 overs so he minimizes his risks earlier on. Does Mickey have a soft spot for Babar or does he tell him to bat slowly in the first 30-40 deliveries? Babar when started his career used to be more aggressive and would take on the bowling from the start, now he looks totally a defensive guy in the first 40-50 deliveries. Maybe he needs to be told that he should look to bat through the inning but also play assertively and not get bogged down just for the sake of batting through till the end.


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