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  1. #1
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    What steps does the PTI government need to take towards deradicalizing Pakistan?

    In light of yesterday's events regarding Atif Mian, it is once again quite clear that extremism is deeply rooted in Pakistani society, and it will take some serious efforts to get past it.

    The reaction over the appointment of Atif Mian showed that Pakistanis are not ready for such change yet, so what long and short term steps do you think need to be taken towards deradicalizing the population and rooting out extremism? How long do you think it would take to bring about enough change for it to be easy to appoint someone like Atif Mian to an important post?


    “It is not defeat that destroys you, it is being demoralized by defeat that destroys you.”
    ― Imran Khan

  2. #2
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    For starters I would have wanted PM IK to directly address the issue and say he backs Atif Mian not because of his religion but his economic credentials.



    Somebody also needs to put a leash on that stupid Khadim Rizvi.
    Last edited by Abdullah719; 8th September 2018 at 23:59.

  3. #3
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    In my opinion:

    Short Term Solutions

    1.) Human rights ministry needs to set a criteria of what can be considered as a "radical idea".
    2.) People who are spreading radical ideas need to be identified and watched. PEMRA should be directed to ban TV coverage of such characters, and they should not be given any government protection or spaces to conduct their events.
    3.) Government of Pakistan need to work with social media like Facebook and Twitter, and prevent hate speech being spewed by identified radical people.
    4.) The government needs an empowered Islamic council which will have the purpose of countering the ideologies of radicals like Khadim Rizvi using Islam. Religious scholars all across Pakistan should also be invited to endorse the Council. Religion is a "language" that resonates with Pakistanis, and using religion to counter radical ideas is the best way to get a message across. The Islamic council will have the purpose of promoting a more traditional tolerent, just, and equal Islam, based on the Medina Charter and the true teachings of the Prophet. False narratives against other sects and religions also need to be countered by the Islamic council, and interfaith events should also be promoted to encourage interfaith harmony. A focus should be on a common ground approach between all religions.
    5.) Children who have been a part of violent extremist groups should undergo full rehabilitation and education. Adults need to be looked at on a case to case basis, those involved at a lesser level should be made to go through rehabilitation, while more extreme cases must be dealt with by the law.

    Long Term Solutions

    1.) Education system should be reformed, and Islamiyat curriculum should have a focus on core Islamic values as well as Islamic values of tolerence, equality, and justice. Islamic stories and history taught to have a focus on examples and cases of tolerence, equality, and justice exemplified by the Prophet and other significant Islamic figures. Students should also be taught the common ground between Islam and other faiths, especially Abrahamic faiths. Students also need to learn Quaid e Azam's vision for minorities, and his speech about minorities should feature in the curriculum. Jihad in the form of holy war should be removed from the school curriculum and jihad in the Islamiyat curriculum should instead be taught to be a general struggle against evil, external and internal.
    2.) Youth also need to be given something to do. Youth get into extremist groups due to lack of other opportunities. I think a lot of work needs to be done in giving youth opportunities to play sports, learn music, learn art, join different types of after school clubs, etc.
    3.) If the people are given more opportunities to work and education, there will be less people going to extremists for help, and there will be less time to think of extreme ideas.. The government needs to create jobs urgently, and a focus needs to be on technical education, which should also be open for adults too.
    4.) Mosques and Madrassahs must be subject to government scrutiny. If any are found to be spreading radical and hateful ideas, strict action must be taken against them.


    “It is not defeat that destroys you, it is being demoralized by defeat that destroys you.”
    ― Imran Khan

  4. #4
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    Ahmedi issue much more complex than intolerance. To accept Ahmedis you will have to completely transform Pakistan’s society and it’s not possible in next 50 years. The biggest issue Ahmadis call themselves Muslims and majority of Pakistanis call them non Muslims. They don’t fall under the protected class.

    Short term solution is to regulate jumma khutbas. You can’t allow maulvis to spread hatred against anyone. This is what happened yesterday. Local imams were provoking people against Miyan Atif. Like Saudia and Turkey, Pakistan will have to dictate and control Friday khutbas.

  5. #5
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    Spineless governments like PTI cannot do anything. What Pakistan needs is a ruthless dictator like Ataturk, but of course that will never happen.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick84 View Post
    Ahmedi issue much more complex than intolerance. To accept Ahmedis you will have to completely transform Pakistan’s society and it’s not possible in next 50 years. The biggest issue Ahmadis call themselves Muslims and majority of Pakistanis call them non Muslims. They don’t fall under the protected class.

    Short term solution is to regulate jumma khutbas. You can’t allow maulvis to spread hatred against anyone. This is what happened yesterday. Local imams were provoking people against Miyan Atif. Like Saudia and Turkey, Pakistan will have to dictate and control Friday khutbas.
    The Ahmedi issue is something that can only be solved through education. If Zia ul Haq could plant the seeds for radicalization, and change the thinking of an entire generation of Pakistanis, then why can't our current government employ similar tactics to reverse the damage?

    The key to long term change is providing quality education to all Pakistanis, with the Islamic curriculum focused on basic Islamic values such as tolerance, equality, and unity. If the urban middle and upper classes have access to an education that allows them to grow up tolerant of Ahmedis, then why can't a similar education be provided to all Pakistanis?


    “It is not defeat that destroys you, it is being demoralized by defeat that destroys you.”
    ― Imran Khan

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Spineless governments like PTI cannot do anything. What Pakistan needs is a ruthless dictator like Ataturk, but of course that will never happen.
    Definitely agree that bold actions need to be taken the way that Attaturk did back when he was in power.

    The two days PTI stuck to their guns, I had a lot of hope. Unfortunately this one move has made me lose trust when it comes to PTI tackling extremism. While I am not exactly a "minority", Shias in Pakistan have faced a lot of trouble over the past few decades, and I as a Shia, feel that if these Mullahs start demanding things and spreading hate against us, the PTI government may even capitulate. The lack of guts shown is truly disappointing, at the very least they could have shown some fight by sticking to their decision for a month or so.


    “It is not defeat that destroys you, it is being demoralized by defeat that destroys you.”
    ― Imran Khan

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by hussain.r97 View Post
    Definitely agree that bold actions need to be taken the way that Attaturk did back when he was in power.

    The two days PTI stuck to their guns, I had a lot of hope. Unfortunately this one move has made me lose trust when it comes to PTI tackling extremism. While I am not exactly a "minority", Shias in Pakistan have faced a lot of trouble over the past few decades, and I as a Shia, feel that if these Mullahs start demanding things and spreading hate against us, the PTI government may even capitulate. The lack of guts shown is truly disappointing, at the very least they could have shown some fight by sticking to their decision for a month or so.
    This can never happen against Shias. Mainly due to two reasons.
    1)Pakistan has a large Shia population
    2)Hatred against Shiites is limited to a very specific group. Most Sunnis have no issues with Shias. You honestly can’t compare shias to ahmedis.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by hussain.r97 View Post
    The Ahmedi issue is something that can only be solved through education. If Zia ul Haq could plant the seeds for radicalization, and change the thinking of an entire generation of Pakistanis, then why can't our current government employ similar tactics to reverse the damage?

    The key to long term change is providing quality education to all Pakistanis, with the Islamic curriculum focused on basic Islamic values such as tolerance, equality, and unity. If the urban middle and upper classes have access to an education that allows them to grow up tolerant of Ahmedis, then why can't a similar education be provided to all Pakistanis?
    Because Zia was a dictator who ruled for 10 years and had unlimited resources at his disposal. Americans wanted Jihaadis and we obliged them.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick84 View Post
    This can never happen against Shias. Mainly due to two reasons.
    1)Pakistan has a large Shia population
    2)Hatred against Shiites is limited to a very specific group. Most Sunnis have no issues with Shias. You honestly can’t compare shias to ahmedis.
    I know there is a big difference between Shias and Ahmedis, but the thing is that this hatred for Ahmedis started off as something much smaller too, and now it is something very deeply rooted. Right now, with the continued rise of Wahabbism I can see the hatred for Shias on the rise, and while I doubt it will ever reach the level of hatred people have for Ahmedis, I definitely do think that it may reach reasonably high levels.


    “It is not defeat that destroys you, it is being demoralized by defeat that destroys you.”
    ― Imran Khan

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick84 View Post
    Because Zia was a dictator who ruled for 10 years and had unlimited resources at his disposal. Americans wanted Jihaadis and we obliged them.
    I understand he was a dictator and had unlimited resources and all, but PTI do have the power to at least make serious changes to education. They also have PEMRA, Human Rights ministry, and various other government institutions in their hands. There is quite a lot they can do with all that, if they are willing to be bold.

    It's not like they will have any trouble in the senate either, as PPP will definitely back them on things like education and curriculum reforms if needed. I am sure they would also back PTI on any legislation that would allow government monitoring of mosques and madrassahs.


    “It is not defeat that destroys you, it is being demoralized by defeat that destroys you.”
    ― Imran Khan

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    For starters I would have wanted PM IK to directly address the issue and say he backs Atif Mian not because of his religion but his economic credentials.



    Somebody also needs to put a leash on that stupid Khadim Rizvi.
    I said it at the time when he was a nobody that he needs to be given a chitrol before he gets too big and now he is too big.
    Last edited by Abdullah719; 9th September 2018 at 00:00.

  13. #13
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    Simple solution to Ahmedi nonsense, make them pay jizya, that way they can't go around claiming to be muslims.

  14. #14
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    Not be spineless cowards.

  15. #15
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    It was a small step by the PTI but even that was too much for the insecure and the professional hate mongers. I credit IK for taking the small step but after the reaction from the opposition and the maulvis, this issue could have sunk an embryonic govt.

    @Mamoon
    You have avoided this question on a few occasions, as a Noora how do you feel about Nooras and their petition.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    It was a small step by the PTI but even that was too much for the insecure and the professional hate mongers. I credit IK for taking the small step but after the reaction from the opposition and the maulvis, this issue could have sunk an embryonic govt.

    @Mamoon
    You have avoided this question on a few occasions, as a Noora how do you feel about Nooras and their petition.
    No deflection allowed. PTI melted under pressure and the decision was on their heads. I am not going to focus my attention on the opposition much to your annoyance.

    And Nooras don’t vote for PTI.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    No deflection allowed. PTI melted under pressure and the decision was on their heads. I am not going to focus my attention on the opposition much to your annoyance.

    And Nooras don’t vote for PTI.
    Ok, but is it the 1st govt to go back. Where was you when they made the original decision, yes you disappeared. You are the biggest hypocrite of all.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    No deflection allowed. PTI melted under pressure and the decision was on their heads. I am not going to focus my attention on the opposition much to your annoyance.

    And Nooras don’t vote for PTI.
    And btw, i dont believe you voted for PTI, unless you are total hypocrite.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    And btw, i dont believe you voted for PTI, unless you are total hypocrite.
    Yeah let me bash IK and PTI for five years and offer services to Sharif khandaan but then in the end go and vote for PTI because my 'elders' told me so. Mashallah, hallelujah moment.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    Yeah let me bash IK and PTI for five years and offer services to Sharif khandaan but then in the end go and vote for PTI because my 'elders' told me so. Mashallah, hallelujah moment.
    Its intersting that last week he was blabbering on about the helicopter issue and when i challenged to apologise for his defence of the Sharif family treatment in London and their use of the PIA plane, he disappeared. What a hypocrite.

  21. #21
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    There's no short term solution. It needs to be phased out or there needs to be a hit list that army needs to go after. This task is too much for civilian government since they don't want to risk losing votes.

  22. #22
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    Are there any examples of earth of Islamic Countries where they changed from a deeply religious radical society to a modern secular society?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    Are there any examples of earth of Islamic Countries where they changed from a deeply religious radical society to a modern secular society?
    Turkey.

    Not sure that should be Pakistan's role model, as they went too far in the other direction and wanted to be Europeans completely.

    A middle ground would be better.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackanhyellow View Post
    Turkey.

    Not sure that should be Pakistan's role model, as they went too far in the other direction and wanted to be Europeans completely.

    A middle ground would be better.
    Don't think there were any issues with religious extremism, suicide bombings, religious based assasinations in Turkey in the 20's and 30's. A better example would be countries like Malaysia and UAE, where you can have the best of both worlds.

    Dubai has strict Islamic laws, has a very tough ruthless weather but still manages to attract foreigners from all over the world.

  25. #25
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    Mainstream education and social justice. Without either off them the poor are easily brainwashed in to picking up a weapon. Give them food, jobs and good living standards and radicalisation will come down if not be totally eliminated.


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.


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