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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    The only thing that matters in Test cricket are the rankings. It is going to decide which two teams will get to play in the ICC Test Championship Final in 2021.

    Teams that are not in the top two by the cut-off date will not able to win the Test Championship Trophy, so I hope it is now clear why the “meaningless” rankings are important.

    The rankings will decide the Test Championship winner, not the verdict of the PPers and their hypothetical scenarios, qualifications and filters.

    However, PPers can play a fantasy ICC Test Championship Final between Pakistan and some other team, whenever and wherever they want.

    It is also pertinent to point out that the notion that England, Australia and South Africa would be number one if they keep playing at home is a myth.

    No team is as dominant at home as India as, they have won every series in the last 5 years. No other team can boast such a record.

    Pakistan did get to the top of the rankings for a few weeks thanks to a washout Test between India and the West Indies, but they blew it by losing 6 consecutive Tests to Australia, New Zealand and the West Indies, and they don’t have anyone to blame for.

    It is also important to point out that our home record in Pakistan has been trash since the 90’s, and playing our home Tests in the UAE has actually benefited our batsmen.

    The UAE pitches have nothing for the pacers, and teams like England, Australia and South Africa would have enjoyed more success in Pakistan where you often get green wickets or overcast conditions, which are nowhere to be found in the UAE.

    So to summarize what I stated:

    - the rankings are not meaningless because they will decide who qualifies for the ICC Test Championship Final.

    - the opinions of PPers will not influence what happens in the real world. However, They can host their very own fantasy Test Championship and declare Pakistan the winner for their self-satisfaction.

    - India are the rightful number one ranked team because they are the most dominant home team by far.

    - Pakistan would have lost a lot more home Tests if we would not have shifted our home matches to the UAE.
    Mamoon bhai, very well put but do you think is it worth to waste your precious time for biased posters?

    They probably do not want to understand how ranking works. It is not necessary to win everything overseas to be number 1 and that should be crystal clear. Indians do not claim that they are the best everywhere. There is a difference between being best everywhere and being number 1 as per ranking criterias. You have to have best at home and be competitive outside to be top 3 in rankings. During a ranking cycle once you lose at home, your raking deserves to be dip down.

    Not too much hope but hopefully my Pak friends understand it.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkrai View Post
    Test ranking have been meaningless because there hasn't been a test championship so far. And if ICC does not make a proper fair home and away schedule then it will be flawed, which is nothing new in cricket.

    Pakistan players do not grow up playing in UAE, they grow up playing in Pakistan. Our pacers do not get any help in UAE either. Our strength has always been our fast bowlers.

    You really think Eng, Aus, and SA would not be able to become number 1 even if they kept playing home series? I think you need to throw away your bias think more clearly.

    When Pakistan was number 1 would you have said they deserve to play more tests than India in Aus? According to you India deserve it because they are number 1. Do not say India deserved it because they have better record than Pakistan in Aus because i can say the same about Pakistan's record in Eng.
    More word salad.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    More word salad.
    Word salad, tangetiality, looseness of associations.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    More word salad.
    You are always proven wrong then you run away because you have nothing to say.

  5. #85
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    Pakistan have proven themselves in England over the last two tours and therefore deserve a five test series in England imo. Certainly better than English conditions.

  6. #86
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    Pakistan dominance in UAE had a lot to do with UAE Khan who was phenomenal in UAE against any opposition. Without Younis, Pak will struggle a bit to maintain their home dominance.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kohli, The King of Chase View Post
    Look, for me losing the series is not humiliation but, missing the most easy chance is.

    This has been the worst English side and, this is the first time all of ours bowlers gave everything they can(most of the times). But, still we couldn't win.😢

    I predicted 4-1, min 3-2 after Pak-Eng series, thinking if an upcoming and an average team like Pakistan can beat them in 1/2, I thought us(being #1 with experienced players) to win atleast 3-2. But,... That's why I am calling this as humiliation.

    If you are talking about competing, yes, we did compete well(apart from Lord's).
    You hv no idea what humiliation is sir. I was present at Oval test in 2014 and that was humilation of epic proportions. Lets get one thing straight, most of the teams currently are good at home and poor away. The same Eng side got blanked 4-0 in India with 1 test being washout. Jayant Yadav was looking like what Sam Curran is looking this series. Will you call Eng got humiliated? Ofcouse not. This team has fought tooth and nail everyday and still fighting. No shame in losing as long as there is a fight.

    Also why do we always have to compare with Pakistan. Yes its true they did win the 1st test but lost by an innings in 2nd one. There is absolutely no gurantee what would hv happened if they played longer series. Pakistan also lost a test series to SL at home (can you believe?) and dropped a test vs WI.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkrai View Post
    You are always proven wrong then you run away because you have nothing to say.
    I presented facts, you presented opinions. Unfortunately there is a gap between what will actually happen and what you want to happen and think should happen.

    You can come up with your own rankings and have your own fantasy Test Championship.

    You can also come up with your own fantasy FTP with Pakistan playing a string of series in the UAE, so that they can become number one and relieve your heartburn.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    I presented facts, you presented opinions. Unfortunately there is a gap between what will actually happen and what you want to happen and think should happen.

    You can come up with your own rankings and have your own fantasy Test Championship.

    You can also come up with your own fantasy FTP with Pakistan playing a string of series in the UAE, so that they can become number one and relieve your heartburn.
    You didn't answer my question. When Pakistan was number 1 did they deserved to play more tests than India in Aus?

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canford Cliffs View Post
    You hv no idea what humiliation is sir. I was present at Oval test in 2014 and that was humilation of epic proportions. Lets get one thing straight, most of the teams currently are good at home and poor away. The same Eng side got blanked 4-0 in India with 1 test being washout. Jayant Yadav was looking like what Sam Curran is looking this series. Will you call Eng got humiliated? Ofcouse not. This team has fought tooth and nail everyday and still fighting. No shame in losing as long as there is a fight.

    Also why do we always have to compare with Pakistan. Yes its true they did win the 1st test but lost by an innings in 2nd one. There is absolutely no gurantee what would hv happened if they played longer series. Pakistan also lost a test series to SL at home (can you believe?) and dropped a test vs WI.
    Humiliation is subjective, as I said for me humiliation is missing the most easiest chance to win. I WILL call England, losing a series as humiliation, as they lost 0-4.

    You are right, no use of comparison with Pakistan or any other team. But, the thread is comparing those two teams, moreover these 2 teams played in the same summer this time, which helps you gauge the capability of Eng, if they lose one out of 2 to this avg Pak team. I hope you can make the difference.

    Regarding, if the series was more than 2 match or, losing at homes against SL, I don't care what Pakistan does(But, if u still ask me, I would say Pak was humiliated). As you urself, said no use in comparison.
    Last edited by Kohli, The King of Chase; 9th September 2018 at 19:22.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkrai View Post
    You didn't answer my question. When Pakistan was number 1 did they deserved to play more tests than India in Aus?
    They were number one because of a washout Test between India and West Indies, and their number one ranking lasted for roughly 3 weeks if not more, so the answer to your question is a resounding no.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    They were number one because of a washout Test between India and West Indies, and their number one ranking lasted for roughly 3 weeks if not more, so the answer to your question is a resounding no.
    Did Pakistan win any tests to be able to out them in to contention for the number 1 spot?

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finisher View Post
    Did Pakistan win any tests to be able to out them in to contention for the number 1 spot?
    I am sorry I didn’t understand your question, but Pakistan did slide down the rankings as a result of losing 6 straight Tests from October 2016 to April 2017.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canford Cliffs View Post
    Comparing Zimbabwe of 2001 with 2014?
    Why bring zim in first place when topic is about england,pak and india

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    I am sorry I didn’t understand your question, but Pakistan did slide down the rankings as a result of losing 6 straight Tests from October 2016 to April 2017.
    Yeah I'm sure you didn't

  16. #96
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    I would have thought Pakistani fans would have kept their emotions in check by first having good UAE upcoming test leg to prove they indeed are good in tests despite loss of Misbah and Younis.

    But instead they are already fantasizing about deserving more tests.

    Usually longer the tour goes, the better team comes out on top.

    Anderson, Broad would have made merry of our batsmen if 2nd test result was anything to go by.

    Still if we believe we deserve more tests we need to just keep winning tests.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    They were number one because of a washout Test between India and West Indies, and their number one ranking lasted for roughly 3 weeks if not more, so the answer to your question is a resounding no.
    They were number 1 because they won many series in UAE and drew a series in Eng. The washout only highlighted their success leading up to that point. Regardless of how long it lasted or how it was achieved, the fact is they were number 1.

    So it's no win situation for Pakistan even if they were number 1 you would still favor India.

    You talked about facts and opinions. Their ranking was a fact. If you think they weren't worthy then that is your opinion.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkrai View Post
    They were number 1 because they won many series in UAE and drew a series in Eng. The washout only highlighted their success leading up to that point. Regardless of how long it lasted or how it was achieved, the fact is they were number 1.

    So it's no win situation for Pakistan even if they were number 1 you would still favor India.

    You talked about facts and opinions. Their ranking was a fact. If you think they weren't worthy then that is your opinion.


    Oh bhai, I am not saying that Pakistan did not deserve to be number 1. Of course they played good enough cricket to be in contention for the number 1 spot, but they wouldn’t have got there if rain wouldn’t have interrupted a Test between India and West Indies.

    Also, by the time we toured Australia, we had already started our slide down the rankings because we lost a Test to West Indies in Sharjah while India smoked England.

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finisher View Post
    Yeah I'm sure you didn't
    Well, you should explain in that case.

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post


    Oh bhai, I am not saying that Pakistan did not deserve to be number 1. Of course they played good enough cricket to be in contention for the number 1 spot, but they wouldn’t have got there if rain wouldn’t have interrupted a Test between India and West Indies.

    Also, by the time we toured Australia, we had already started our slide down the rankings because we lost a Test to West Indies in Sharjah while India smoked England.
    If Pakistan deserved to be number one then, according to you, why did they not deserve more tests than India in Aus? I'm talking about when they were number 1.

    We started to lose points when we played series in top countries just like how India is losing points now.

    By using your logic when we were number 1 we would have deserved more test matches than India in Aus. Everything else you say are excuses.

  21. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by saeed5646 View Post
    Why bring zim in first place when topic is about england,pak and india
    Thats how arguments on PP works, such as when 4th test was going on between Ind-Eng, a well known poster brought CT win in between.

  22. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkrai View Post
    If Pakistan deserved to be number one then, according to you, why did they not deserve more tests than India in Aus? I'm talking about when they were number 1.

    We started to lose points when we played series in top countries just like how India is losing points now.

    By using your logic when we were number 1 we would have deserved more test matches than India in Aus. Everything else you say are excuses.
    Pak being number 1 does not guarentee bringing more money for AUS. So yes they deserved but practically it was not possible.

  23. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuskash View Post
    Pak being number 1 does not guarentee bringing more money for AUS. So yes they deserved but practically it was not possible.
    I'm not saying Pakistan deserves more tests than India i'm only pointing out using Mamoon's logic Pakistan deserved more tests than Indian in Aus.

  24. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkrai View Post
    If Pakistan deserved to be number one then, according to you, why did they not deserve more tests than India in Aus? I'm talking about when they were number 1.

    We started to lose points when we played series in top countries just like how India is losing points now.

    By using your logic when we were number 1 we would have deserved more test matches than India in Aus. Everything else you say are excuses.
    If Pakistan could sustain their number one ranking, they would have deserved more matches than India in Australia and every other country.

    I presented you with facts, you tried to counter them with opinions and fantasies.

    Facts:

    - the rankings are everything because they decide who plays in the Test Championship Final in 2021.

    - the Test Championship is the biggest trophy in Test cricket - bigger than performing against England in England.

    - India have been the strongest home team in the world since 2013.

    Opinions & Fantasies:

    - the rankings are meaningless.

    - England, Australia and South Africa would be number 1 too if they play a lot of home matches.

  25. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Well, you should explain in that case.
    So what you are saying is that u don't understand Pakistan had to Win Matches to get into contention for the number 1 spot?

  26. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finisher View Post
    So what you are saying is that u don't understand Pakistan had to Win Matches to get into contention for the number 1 spot?
    Please refer to post #98.

  27. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finisher View Post
    How many are in England Aus South Africa
    Why? Are you planning give more points for matches in England Aus and SA?

    Do you think something like that will ever happen? Do you think that makes even an iota of sense?

  28. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by barah_admi View Post
    India have been walloped 3 times.

    Anyway, Pakistan and India are about par in terms of ticket sales in England and audience on Sky. In fact, this particular series had such poor ticket sales it was widely reported across the press, with Sky scrambling to put a twist on it.

    Pakistan v England should be 5 tests.

    Yet ECB says that India and Ashes series are their money spinners.

    Ticket sales are only miniscule part of the revenue. Most revenues come from the tv rights and Ads.

  29. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_outsider View Post
    Why? Are you planning give more points for matches in England Aus and SA?

    Do you think something like that will ever happen? Do you think that makes even an iota of sense?
    Yes it does, football ranking systems have changed to stop giving similar ranking points for a win over Azerbaijan and France. This has stopped teams like USA Coming into the top 5 Fifa rankings.

  30. #110
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    Pakistan should atleast play 3 tests and not 2 tests in England. Thats for sure.

  31. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Please refer to post #98.
    Wash out are a part of the game, getting in to ifs and buts isn't. Maybe ICC should implement new ifs and buts part to the game

  32. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    If Pakistan could sustain their number one ranking, they would have deserved more matches than India in Australia and every other country.

    I presented you with facts, you tried to counter them with opinions and fantasies.

    Facts:

    - the rankings are everything because they decide who plays in the Test Championship Final in 2021.

    - the Test Championship is the biggest trophy in Test cricket - bigger than performing against England in England.

    - India have been the strongest home team in the world since 2013.

    Opinions & Fantasies:

    - the rankings are meaningless.

    - England, Australia and South Africa would be number 1 too if they play a lot of home matches.
    Facts:

    India played many series at home to achieved number 1 ranking.
    Pakistan has also done that.
    Now India is losing points because they are losing in top countries-just like Pakistan.
    India dominated Aus n SA in India. So awesome, India should be called the greatest ever!! but SL also did that but nobody cares right?

    India vs Eng in Eng

    0-4
    1-3
    1-4 (likely) -Number 1 team. The dominating giant India. Better than Pakistan at everything

    Pakistan in Eng

    2-2
    1-1 -Only 3 or 4 experienced players. The team who being left behind by BD. The team heading towards dark-ages. (according to sir Mamoon)

    Last couple of years have been tough for you Mamoon. After CT final humiliation and reality check in SA and now in Eng, i can understand your pain but try not to be so biased all the time.
    Last edited by Darkrai; 9th September 2018 at 20:31.

  33. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Pakistan should atleast play 3 tests and not 2 tests in England. Thats for sure.
    Played 4 in 2016.

  34. #114
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    I personally think cricket is a bit unfair in terms of match scheduling, ALL major test playing nations should play the same number of tests in an organised manner.

  35. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logical View Post
    Pakistan being ranked #7 has everything to do with Misbah's mediocrity than anything else. Current team has a lot more potential and are certainly going in the right direction.
    Agree with this

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkrai View Post
    Facts:

    India played many series at home to achieved number 1 ranking.
    Pakistan has also done that.
    Now India is losing points because they are losing in top countries-just like Pakistan.
    India dominated Aus n SA in India. So awesome, India should be called the greatest ever!! but SL also did that but nobody cares right?

    India vs Eng in Eng

    0-4
    1-3
    1-4 (likely) -Number 1 team. The dominating giant India. Better than Pakistan at everything

    Pakistan in Eng

    2-2
    1-1 -Only 3 or 4 experienced players. The team who being left behind by BD. The team heading towards dark-ages. (according to sir Mamoon)

    Last couple of years have been tough for you Mamoon. After CT final humiliation and reality check in SA and now in Eng, i can understand your pain but try not to be so biased all the time.
    Pakistan has won 3 out 6 matches in England in the last 2 years. But it has also lost 5 out of 5 matches everywhere else in SENA. You seem to always miss that point in your "analysis".

    India has lost 58% of matches played in SENA in last 4 years. Pakistan has lost 73% of matches.

    Nobody seems to get this and I don't understand why. It's not that complicated.

    Pakistan wins more in SENA but it also loses more. That's why rankings are where they are for India and Pakistan.

    Pakistan's 73% loss rate is doing more damage to their rankings than their 27% win rate can recover. It's that simple.

  37. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finisher View Post
    Yes it does, football ranking systems have changed to stop giving similar ranking points for a win over Azerbaijan and France. This has stopped teams like USA Coming into the top 5 Fifa rankings.
    Then you should have weightage points given by ranking and not country.

    Claiming that more points to be given just because the match is being played in Aus, Eng or SA is ridiculous.

  38. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_outsider View Post
    Pakistan has won 3 out 6 matches in England in the last 2 years. But it has also lost 5 out of 5 matches everywhere else in SENA. You seem to always miss that point in your "analysis".

    India has lost 58% of matches played in SENA in last 4 years. Pakistan has lost 73% of matches.

    Nobody seems to get this and I don't understand why. It's not that complicated.

    Pakistan wins more in SENA but it also loses more. That's why rankings are where they are for India and Pakistan.

    Pakistan's 73% loss rate is doing more damage to their rankings than their 27% win rate can recover. It's that simple.
    This thread was about playing in ENG. We were talking about Mamoon's logic behind why India deserves more Test than Pakistan in Eng. Not to mention he doesn't give any importance to Pakistan's success in Eng but is quick to point at the ranking when it comes to India.

  39. #119
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    Some embarrassing posts by Pakistani fans on here with absurd claims like "rankings don't count" and the comparison of Zimbabwe's teams of 15 - 20 years ago to the one of the current era.

    Before we want to challenge ECB's decisions to give India 5 matches and more tests than Pakistan this season, we need to take a look at our ranking, whitewash performance against SL at home and have extended our atrocious streak of consecutive losses in Aus.

    England v India series makes more money and they're number one side and given they haven't played England since 2014 whereas Pakistan played 2 yrs ago with a 4 test encompassing itinerary, India deserved more tests.

    Personally I would have split the 7 tests giving Pakistan 3 and India the rest. In Australia - Pakistan doesn't deserve more than 2 tests.
    Last edited by topspin; 9th September 2018 at 20:55.

  40. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_outsider View Post
    Pakistan has won 3 out 6 matches in England in the last 2 years. But it has also lost 5 out of 5 matches everywhere else in SENA. You seem to always miss that point in your "analysis".

    India has lost 58% of matches played in SENA in last 4 years. Pakistan has lost 73% of matches.

    Nobody seems to get this and I don't understand why. It's not that complicated.

    Pakistan wins more in SENA but it also loses more. That's why rankings are where they are for India and Pakistan.

    Pakistan's 73% loss rate is doing more damage to their rankings than their 27% win rate can recover. It's that simple.
    This thread is not about SENA countries.

  41. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logical View Post
    Pakistan being ranked #7 has everything to do with Misbah's mediocrity than anything else. Current team has a lot more potential and are certainly going in the right direction.
    Quote Originally Posted by topspin View Post
    Agree with this
    Do NOT agree at all.

    In the Test Arena at least, Pakistan getting to number 1 was because of Misbah and the instilment of belief in the average team he had to grind out results despite being with the most limited resources ever.

    Younis Khan played his salutationary part as well in a few tests to overcome the average players in the side.

    As soon as Misbah left tests, Pakistan lost to Sri Lanka of all countries in UAE, who were thrashed by Misbah's side when Pakiatan scored at over 4 runs an over to win a historical test.

    This will become more evident as we move forward, that without good Test batsmen, our team will make no strides in Test Cricket.


    Its actually frightening how people think Misbah was holding the team BACK IN TESTS when it was under his reign PAKISTAN gained the top results and hit top position.

    The thanklessness and sense of superciliousness coupled with deflecting weaknesses of the team to Misbah hasnt even stopped after his retirement and it NEVER will.

    Lets see what tricks Misbah less Pakistan does against the weak teams of Australia and Nz.


    And I get so high.. And I just can't feel it....

  42. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_outsider View Post
    Pakistan has won 3 out 6 matches in England in the last 2 years. But it has also lost 5 out of 5 matches everywhere else in SENA. You seem to always miss that point in your "analysis".

    India has lost 58% of matches played in SENA in last 4 years. Pakistan has lost 73% of matches.

    Nobody seems to get this and I don't understand why. It's not that complicated.

    Pakistan wins more in SENA but it also loses more. That's why rankings are where they are for India and Pakistan.

    Pakistan's 73% loss rate is doing more damage to their rankings than their 27% win rate can recover. It's that simple.
    Don’t you know, England is the only country that matters, especially Lord’s and the Oval.

  43. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkrai View Post
    This thread was about playing in ENG. We were talking about Mamoon's logic behind why India deserves more Test than Pakistan in Eng. Not to mention he doesn't give any importance to Pakistan's success in Eng but is quick to point at the ranking when it comes to India.
    I have said this before and I will say this again. 5 match test series is an anomaly.

    4 match test series is the norm.

    England and India have been playing 5 test series since 1952, the first test series of independent India.

    Other than India vs England series and the Ashes, no other current series is played over 5 matches anymore.

    The Frank Worrell Trophy (Windies vs Australia) is the only other series that used to be played over 5+ test matches.

    But due to WICB's financial condition, even they have reduced it to a 3 test series in the last decade.


    5 test series have nothing to do with which country is playing or what the ranking is. It is only about one thing and one thing only - tradition.

  44. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Don’t you know, England is the only country that matters, especially Lord’s and the Oval.
    That's what it seems to be.

    Every one remembers the 2-2 in England but nobody seems to remember that Pakistan has lost 12 out of the last 12 matches in Australia.

    You would think that beating the number 1 team of the last 40 years would hold more value than beating England.

    But apparently not so, on PP.

  45. #125
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    This is one of those threads where pretty much everyone is wrong.

  46. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by mak36 View Post
    This is one of those threads where pretty much everyone is wrong.
    In what sense?

  47. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuskash View Post
    ECB may not do it, it would loss lots of money. Schedule does not work on emotions, its a business
    It has been done in the past so can be done so again. Not sure if the PCB is capable of arranging it. A Eng-Pak series in England means a lot of money will be made. This is not emotional claptrap but fact.


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

  48. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by PakLFC View Post
    It has been done in the past so can be done so again. Not sure if the PCB is capable of arranging it. A Eng-Pak series in England means a lot of money will be made. This is not emotional claptrap but fact.
    PCB could not afford the regular 4 test series so it had to reduce it to 2 tests in 2018 I don't see how they can afford a 5 test series next time.

    Even BCCI being the richest board only plays one 5 test series every 2 years - against England.

  49. #129
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    Like someone pointed out, it's got to do with the tradition that these two nations had been playing 5 test series since the independence.

    But what I am more surprised with is when last time Pak toured England they played 4 tests and this year the series has been reduced to 2 test matches. There's just no consistency between these two teams. It's like England board slotted in Pakistan just to fill in those 2 home test matches as others were not available. If you think from that POV, I understand why some posters are being jelly towards Indian cricket.

  50. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canford Cliffs View Post
    Think you are overreating. The humiliation was in 2011 and in 2014. This series was far from humiliation. Indian team have fought tooth and nail in every test (bar Lords). They failed to capitalise the crucial moments and hence the scoreline shows 3-1. Today Nasser Hussain was mentioning the same thing in comm box, that many others teams after 4 tests would hv just folded, especially after losing the series. But this Indian team comes back hard every day (he was mentioning the fight back by Vihari and Jadeja).

    This series is not a humiliation at all. We just need to kick out few players and should be fine.
    Add losing 5 tosses in a row. How unlucky is that. Toss is playing a huge factor in test matches these days. Chasing in 4th innings is making the contest 40-60 even without bowling a single ball in the game.

  51. #131
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    They certainly do

  52. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balthazar View Post
    Like someone pointed out, it's got to do with the tradition that these two nations had been playing 5 test series since the independence.

    But what I am more surprised with is when last time Pak toured England they played 4 tests and this year the series has been reduced to 2 test matches. There's just no consistency between these two teams. It's like England board slotted in Pakistan just to fill in those 2 home test matches as others were not available. If you think from that POV, I understand why some posters are being jelly towards Indian cricket.
    It makes sense if you just have a basic observational ability

    Usually the English summer starts with an Early summer 2 Test series followed by a 4 or 5 match Test series except I believe Ashes years.

    In 2016 it was SL with 2 Tests and Pak with 4
    In 2017 I believe it was WI with 2 Tests and SA with 4
    And this year Pak with 2 Tests and India with 5

    Actually it tells of Pakistan's status as a competitive Test team in England that we have TWO test series there in 3 years


    #MPGA

  53. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slog View Post
    It makes sense if you just have a basic observational ability

    Usually the English summer starts with an Early summer 2 Test series followed by a 4 or 5 match Test series except I believe Ashes years.

    In 2016 it was SL with 2 Tests and Pak with 4
    In 2017 I believe it was WI with 2 Tests and SA with 4
    And this year Pak with 2 Tests and India with 5

    Actually it tells of Pakistan's status as a competitive Test team in England that we have TWO test series there in 3 years
    We will tour to england in 2020 again
    .we are touring them every second year from 2016
    2016
    2018
    2020

  54. #134
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    No. Not that they don't deserve it , but five March test series ( except the ashes) are a complete farce... Usually the series will be decided by the third test and the pain of having to bear the last two dead rubbers is humongous. IMO every series except the ashes should be a three match one and not lesser than that.

  55. #135
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    It's sad to see the way a knowledgeable poster like Mamoon undermining Pakistan's performance in England. In last 10/15 years Pakistan is the only team that has consistently performed well in England.


    On the other hand India's performance in England is on par with other minnow teams from Asia. It would've been a bit tolerable if their shambolic performance was confined to England only. But that's not the case here. As a matter of fact in last 5/6 years India have been thrashed and humiliated every time they have stepped outside Asia.


    But still India gets the chance to play a bucket load of tests outside Asia. It's not because they r good or anything like that but because of the fact that its profitable for the hosting countries. Regardless of the miserable record of Indian team outside Asia, their cricket crazy expat fans still comes in huge number whenever or wherever India plays.

  56. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slog View Post
    It makes sense if you just have a basic observational ability

    Usually the English summer starts with an Early summer 2 Test series followed by a 4 or 5 match Test series except I believe Ashes years.

    In 2016 it was SL with 2 Tests and Pak with 4
    In 2017 I believe it was WI with 2 Tests and SA with 4
    And this year Pak with 2 Tests and India with 5

    Actually it tells of Pakistan's status as a competitive Test team in England that we have TWO test series there in 3 years
    But you don't see Australia, India or even SA play 2 test match series against England, irrespective of one's ranking. But against Pakistan, it mostly depends on their current ICC rankings. In the past 3-4 years, there have been instances of 2, 3 and 4 test match series with no consistencies. That should tell you how England view this series as.

  57. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    I don’t think our fans would be keen to go far with this logic. If this is the case, Pakistan does not deserve even a single match in Australia.
    Pakistan has terrible record in AUS, we should all be ashamed of it...But India is not that flattering either, they have only one 5/44 test in 80+ years and playing, where as Pakistan has 3/33...

    They both are equally bad in AUS, in a sense that winning a full series is far fetched idea...

    But story in England is very different. Pakistan drew their very first full series(4/5 test), back in 1954 and won 2 times a full series(one of them, shutting off ENG 1988, not letting them won a single test). India has never won or draw a full series in England in 85 years. Winning a full test series is very hard thing in foreign conditions, no matter how you look at it...


    If you want to do things that are certain to succeed, you are doing very obvious thing - E Musk

  58. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by yasir View Post
    Pakistan has terrible record in AUS, we should all be ashamed of it...But India is not that flattering either, they have only one 5/44 test in 80+ years and playing, where as Pakistan has 3/33...

    They both are equally bad in AUS, in a sense that winning a full series is far fetched idea...

    But story in England is very different. Pakistan drew their very first full series(4/5 test), back in 1954 and won 2 times a full series(one of them, shutting off ENG 1988, not letting them won a single test). India has never won or draw a full series in England in 85 years. Winning a full test series is very hard thing in foreign conditions, no matter how you look at it...
    That's wrong.

    2007 India won the series against England in England.


    And I get so high.. And I just can't feel it....

  59. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slog View Post
    It makes sense if you just have a basic observational ability

    Usually the English summer starts with an Early summer 2 Test series followed by a 4 or 5 match Test series except I believe Ashes years.

    In 2016 it was SL with 2 Tests and Pak with 4
    In 2017 I believe it was WI with 2 Tests and SA with 4
    And this year Pak with 2 Tests and India with 5

    Actually it tells of Pakistan's status as a competitive Test team in England that we have TWO test series there in 3 years

    West Indies had a 3 match test series last year. Sir Lanka also played a 3 test match series in 2016.

  60. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan123 View Post
    West Indies had a 3 match test series last year. Sir Lanka also played a 3 test match series in 2016.
    SL played a 2 test match series


    #MPGA

  61. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by yasir View Post
    Pakistan has terrible record in AUS, we should all be ashamed of it...But India is not that flattering either, they have only one 5/44 test in 80+ years and playing, where as Pakistan has 3/33...

    They both are equally bad in AUS, in a sense that winning a full series is far fetched idea...

    But story in England is very different. Pakistan drew their very first full series(4/5 test), back in 1954 and won 2 times a full series(one of them, shutting off ENG 1988, not letting them won a single test). India has never won or draw a full series in England in 85 years. Winning a full test series is very hard thing in foreign conditions, no matter how you look at it...
    Just from the last decade, India drew the series in 2002 and won the series in 2007.

  62. #142
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    5 Test match series are not symptomatic of rankings alone. India is a financial behemoth in cricket and playing 5 Tests against them is a win-win situation for both England and India in terms of revenue the series would generate.

    Pakistan has gotten a 4 Test match series in 2006, 2010 and 2016. That is more than enough. This year we only got a 2 match series because we were the team that was opening the summer for England rather than the main event, which was India.

    Also the fact that Pakistan does not rake in the revenues that India brings in, to get a 4 match series in 3 of our past 4 tours indicates that England do rate us highly. And on a personal level, I've never been a fan of 5 Test matches. It's an overkill. 3 is enough - 4 is ok if it's between two highly competitive sides.

  63. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slog View Post
    SL played a 2 test match series
    No they played 3. England play 7 tests in a home season these days with 2 tours . SL played 3 and PAK 4 .

  64. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by saeed5646 View Post
    still that team draw a test series in eng 2-2 2016 unlike india who is thrash by england and verge of 4-1 yet again in eng

    by the way your legend like tendulkar,VVS and dravid can lose a test to them we can efford to lose

    Attachment 83742

    Attachment 83741
    I think i need to dig some stats
    Once in a liftime legendary 90s team lose to Zimbabwean team at home in test series😂😂😂what about that series

  65. #145
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    Pak all time great fast bowles and inventer of doosra cant win home series against Zimbabwean team how shame is that stat

  66. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by saeed5646 View Post
    still that team draw a test series in eng 2-2 2016 unlike india who is thrash by england and verge of 4-1 yet again in eng

    by the way your legend like tendulkar,VVS and dravid can lose a test to them we can efford to lose

    Attachment 83742

    Attachment 83741
    Atleast we didnot lose a home series to Zimbabwe.

  67. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mohammad zuber View Post
    I think i need to dig some stats
    Once in a liftime legendary 90s team lose to Zimbabwean team at home in test series������what about that series
    if legend like Sachin,Dravid and Gangulay cannot prevent india to lose to one match test series to zim than we can efford to lose we don,t chest bump like you guys whose recent record oversease(eng ,aus,SA) is 18-1

  68. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Atleast we didnot lose a home series to Zimbabwe.
    losing a test series to zim away and home is equally embarrassing .they were not quality side than nor now

  69. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by saeed5646 View Post
    losing a test series to zim away and home is equally embarrassing .they were not quality side than nor now
    How can legendary once in a generation bowlers lose to a Zimbabwean team

  70. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mohammad zuber View Post
    Pak all time great fast bowles and inventer of doosra cant win home series against Zimbabwean team how shame is that stat
    i would take that but what about the great sachin,dravid,ganguly who lost a one match test series and allow zim to draw one series in 2001

  71. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mohammad zuber View Post
    How can legendary once in a generation bowlers lose to a Zimbabwean team
    how can So called GOD OF Cricket cannot prevent IND to lose to zim

  72. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by saeed5646 View Post
    if legend like Sachin,Dravid and Gangulay cannot prevent india to lose to one match test series to zim than we can efford to lose we don,t chest bump like you guys whose recent record oversease(eng ,aus,SA) is 18-1
    Losing a test away and losing a SERIES at home which is more embrassing

  73. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mohammad zuber View Post
    Losing a test away and losing a SERIES at home which is more embrassing
    which cricket rule did say that

    zim was poor team without achieving much IN TEST so equally embarrassing for both IND and PAK

  74. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by saeed5646 View Post
    losing a test series to zim away and home is equally embarrassing .they were not quality side than nor now
    How come you spend so much time on a cricket forum but have so little cricketing knowledge?

    In 2001, Andy Flower was the number 1 ranked test batsman in the world. And Heath Streak was the number 5 ranked bowler.

    There is absolutely no comparison between the Zimbabwe of 2001 and Zimbabwe of 2014.

  75. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_outsider View Post
    How come you spend so much time on a cricket forum but have so little cricketing knowledge?

    In 2001, Andy Flower was the number 1 ranked test batsman in the world. And Heath Streak was the number 5 ranked bowler.

    There is absolutely no comparison between the Zimbabwe of 2001 and Zimbabwe of 2014.
    how many time zim 2001 team was number 1 in that so called golden era?

    how many they won a test series away from home against AUS,ENG and SA?

    Number 1 rank batsmen and 5th rank bowler means nothing when your team have won nothing

  76. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by saeed5646 View Post
    which cricket rule did say that

    zim was poor team without achieving much IN TEST so equally embarrassing for both IND and PAK
    Pak lost 3match test series to Zimbabwe at home
    And draw to a minnow team Zimbabwe with misbah and younis
    Thats a really embrassing to rich cricket history team like pakistan

  77. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mohammad zuber View Post
    Pak lost 3match test series to Zimbabwe at home
    And draw to a minnow team Zimbabwe with misbah and younis
    Thats a really embrassing to rich cricket history team like pakistan
    mighty india have lost 1 test series to zim with 2 test series are draw against them.that is really embrassing to rich cricket history team like india

  78. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_outsider View Post
    How come you spend so much time on a cricket forum but have so little cricketing knowledge?

    In 2001, Andy Flower was the number 1 ranked test batsman in the world. And Heath Streak was the number 5 ranked bowler.

    There is absolutely no comparison between the Zimbabwe of 2001 and Zimbabwe of 2014.

    Southern Cross Trophy (Australia in Zimbabwe) 1999/00 Australia 1-0 (1)

    South Africa v Zimbabwe Test Series (in South Africa/Zimbabwe) 1999/00 South Africa 2-0 (2)

    Sri Lanka in Zimbabwe Test Series 1999/00 Sri Lanka 1-0 (3)

    Zimbabwe in West Indies Test Series 1999 West Indies 2-0 (2)

    Zimbabwe in England Test Series 2000 England 1-0 (2)

    New Zealand in Zimbabwe Test Series 2000/01 New Zealand 2-0 (2)

    Zimbabwe in India Test Series 2000/01 India 1-0 (2)

    Zimbabwe in New Zealand Test Match 2000/01 drawn 0-0 (1)

    Bangladesh in Zimbabwe Test Series 2000/01 Zimbabwe 2-0 (2)

    India in Zimbabwe Test Series 2001 drawn 1-1 (2)

    Clive Lloyd Trophy (West Indies in Zimbabwe) 2001 West Indies 1-0 (2)

    South Africa in Zimbabwe Test Series 2001/02 South Africa 1-0 (2)

    Zimbabwe in Bangladesh Test Series 2001/02 Zimbabwe 1-0 (2)

    Zimbabwe in Sri Lanka Test Series 2001/02 Sri Lanka 3-0 (3)

    Zimbabwe in India Test Series 2001/02 India 2-0 (2)

    Pakistan in Zimbabwe Test Series 2002/03 Pakistan 2-0 (2

    impressive ZIm test record ISN'T

  79. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by saeed5646 View Post
    mighty india have lost 1 test series to zim with 2 test series are draw against them.that is really embrassing to rich cricket history team like india
    But we hasn't lost to Zimbabwe srilanka and westindies in tests
    IN THIS DECADE

  80. #160
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    Yes they do and they do get at least 4 test matches every four years.

    Pakistan cricket is loved and supported by the English.
    If anyone heard the commission of the metropolitan police at lunch on Friday with Jonathan Agnew,
    the would have heard her say that the team she supports over everyone else is Pakistan...

    Extremely interesting interview..


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