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  1. #1
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    Misbah-ul-Haq's duration of stay at the wicket in ODIs and its impact on the match result

    This thread is dedicated to;
    1) Fans who believe.... Misbah is the back bone of the Pakistani batting in ODIs.
    2) Fans who believe that..... when Misbah scores runs, Pakistan wins in ODIs.
    3) Fans who believe that.... when if Misbah did not stay at the wicket, Pakistan would be in big trouble in ODIs.
    4) Fans who believe that..... if Misbah fails, Pakistan's ODI batting is too brittle to take the team home.
    ......and last but not the least.
    5) My friend Savak's determination to speak the truth and keep speaking it.


    Following stats evaluate if there is a relationship (or cause and effect) between Misbah's duration of stay at the wicket in ODIs and the impact on Match Result.

    I divided Misbah's ODI innings into two categories;

    1) Misbah stayed at the wicket for only 24 or less ball or Did not bat all.
    ODIs where Misbah did not contribute all and other batsmen did most of the scoring.

    2) Misbah stayed at the wicket for 25 or more balls.
    ODIs where Misbah's contribution was significant.

    I have excluded rained out and unfinished matches but did include tied ODIs.

    So........... let's see how Pakistan team did when the ODIs are broken down in above two categories.


    I picked 4 different time frames .......
    a) Since Jan 1, 2012.
    b) Since Oct 29, 2010 - Misbah's Return to the Team.
    c) All ODIs with Misbah as Team Captain.

    ..and for the fans who may think that the sample size in a, b and c is not large enough;
    d)All ODIs - whole career.


    You can clearly see that success/win rate drastically improves when Misbah either does not bat at all or gets to play only 24 balls or less.

    Most mind-blowing stats are that Team's Win/Loss Ratio is 7.50 when Misbah as captain does not bat more than 24 ball.... but drops down to a losing Win/Loss Ratio of 0.89 if he happens to stay more than 24 balls. AMAZING!!!!!!


    So... based on following 4 tables;

    Question: Why do we need Misbah to bat more than 24 balls in an ODI then?



    .
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  2. #2
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    Excellent analysis once again @W63L35.

    Shows that better, legit batsmen like Fawad Alam and Umar Akmal should bat at #3 and #4 for Pakistan.


    Hai yeh Josh-e-Junoon, hai yeh apna yaqeen, ke jo tum mein hai dum, woh kisi mein nahin!

  3. #3
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    One word comes to my mind when i read this thread, Misbah ul Haq and the context mentioned

    "Mohali"

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Square Drive View Post
    Excellent analysis once again @W63L35.

    Shows that better, legit batsmen like Fawad Alam and Umar Akmal should bat at #3 and #4 for Pakistan.
    The guy has a gift with numbers and the manner in which he writes an introduction and explains his link of the statistics and the conclusion is just remarkable not to mention the immense hard work and determination he puts into it.

  5. #5
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    I've been saying for a while that Misbah's role in the ODI team is to either play the finisher or to act as a safety-net, hence he is best suited to batting at 6 or 7. He doesn't have the versatility to bat at 4, because your almost resigned to only putting up a competitive score as opposed to a good score if you lose a couple of early wickets. His approach is not conducive to maintaining or reviving any significant momentum.

    But we will always make the same mistakes in ODIs, as we have been for the last decade.

    1. Playing Hafeez up the order.
    2. Playing 6 bowlers when are batting is very very weak (most teams would try to beef up the batting to compensate but not us)
    3. Batting YK and Misbah at 3 and 4 respectively, thus effectively destroying any momentum the openers may have created, taking too long to accelerate or not leaving sufficient deliveries for stroke players like Umar Akmal to post a good score.
    4. Continuing to bat Akmal down the order even though he is probably the best all-round ODI batsman in the country.

    I know the argument is that if Misbah bats lower down the team us going to be bowled out cheaply. But it's negative to go in to a defensive mode after the fall of just 2 wickets. I'm not saying the number 4 should come out slogging but he should be someone who is versatile enough to keep the scoreboard ticking.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    The guy has a gift with numbers and the manner in which he writes an introduction and explains his link of the statistics and the conclusion is just remarkable not to mention the immense hard work and determination he puts into it.
    No doubt!


    Hai yeh Josh-e-Junoon, hai yeh apna yaqeen, ke jo tum mein hai dum, woh kisi mein nahin!

  7. #7
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    Lmao, you included instances where Misbah did not bat at all as well?

    If he did not need to bat, it meant that the top order made runs, obviously if the top order batted out the full 50 overs Pakistan will win those matches....

    Atleast attempt to make it accurate if you are going to start a Misbah crucifixion thread.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Square Drive View Post
    Excellent analysis once again @W63L35.

    Shows that better, legit batsmen like Fawad Alam and Umar Akmal should bat at #3 and #4 for Pakistan.
    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    The guy has a gift with numbers and the manner in which he writes an introduction and explains his link of the statistics and the conclusion is just remarkable not to mention the immense hard work and determination he puts into it.
    Thank you guys!!!

    Here is the list of matches since January 1, 2012....... from the first table in OP... just in case, if any body has any doubts...!
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackanhyellow View Post
    Lmao, you included instances where Misbah did not bat at all as well?

    If he did not need to bat, it meant that the top order made runs, obviously if the top order batted out the full 50 overs Pakistan will win those matches....

    Atleast attempt to make it accurate if you are going to start a Misbah crucifixion thread.
    What is the point of him batting then if the win loss ratio becomes worse. He is the captain isn't he? He can come in at no 3 can he not?

    Typical attention diverting tactics

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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackanhyellow View Post
    Lmao, you included instances where Misbah did not bat at all as well?

    If he did not need to bat, it meant that the top order made runs, obviously if the top order batted out the full 50 overs Pakistan will win those matches....

    Atleast attempt to make it accurate if you are going to start a Misbah crucifixion thread.
    You did not read the first 4 lines of the OP.....

    This thread is dedicated to;
    1) Fans who believe.... Misbah is the back bone of the Pakistani batting in ODIs.
    2) Fans who believe that..... when Misbah scores runs, Pakistan wins in ODIs.
    3) Fans who believe that.... when if Misbah did not stay at the wicket, Pakistan would be in big trouble in ODIs.
    4) Fans who believe that..... if Misbah fails, Pakistan's ODI batting is too brittle to take the team home.

    Yes... you right... Misbah did bat because top order scored runs... OBVIOUSLY ..... he was NOT needed..
    similarly... he got out for less than 25 ball .. OBVIOUSLY....... either top order or middle order scored run....


    So..... what is the difference... .

    Point is Misbah's batting WAS NOT NEEDED... !

    I am surprised you are finding it a laughing matter.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    What is the point of him batting then if the win loss ratio becomes worse. He is the captain isn't he? He can come in at no 3 can he not?

    Typical attention diverting tactics

    Sent from my SGH-T999V using Tapatalk
    If he did not bat, it means that the top order already took them to a substantial score, which his bowlers defended...

    What I meant was this thread would have more credibility if it showed matches where the top order failed and Misbah batted for more than 24 balls vs where the top order scored runs and Misbah faced more than 24 balls.

    This thread is implying that when Misbah bats more than 24 balls Pakistan will lose most of the time. It is not taking into account match circumstances, i.e. Misbah comes into bat at 30/4. How many Pakistani batsmen can win games from this position?

    Just have a fair analysis thats all.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackanhyellow View Post
    If he did not bat, it means that the top order already took them to a substantial score, which his bowlers defended...

    What I meant was this thread would have more credibility if it showed matches where the top order failed and Misbah batted for more than 24 balls vs where the top order scored runs and Misbah faced more than 24 balls.

    This thread is implying that when Misbah bats more than 24 balls Pakistan will lose most of the time. It is not taking into account match circumstances, i.e. Misbah comes into bat at 30/4. How many Pakistani batsmen can win games from this position?

    Just have a fair analysis thats all.
    Inzamam, Yousaf and our ex previous legends did all the time. The opening problem has existed for ages and we have always lost early wickets from inception and even when the opening clicked the middle and lower order has frequently collapsed but the batsmen always put their hands up and got the job done instead of throwing the openers under the bus

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  13. #13
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    @W63L35 You're obsession with proving Misbah is worthless is disturbing.

  14. #14
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    ^The OP is just churning out numbers, not really pausing to think about the metrics he develops to bash Misbah. For eg. there is no way of knowing from the op how the other batsmen do when Misbah bats for 25+ balls and Pakistan loses.

    Here are 2 examples.

    http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/578615.html

    http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/685735.html
    Last edited by fawad_wellwisher; 18th August 2014 at 09:36.


    Pakistani batsmen - An endangered species?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    Inzamam, Yousaf and our ex previous legends did all the time. The opening problem has existed for ages and we have always lost early wickets from inception and even when the opening clicked the middle and lower order has frequently collapsed but the batsmen always put their hands up and got the job done instead of throwing the openers under the bus

    Sent from my SGH-T999V using Tapatalk
    agreed. So name a replacement for Misbah? Lets see who you think can bat like Inzamam/ MoYo from the current players.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by miandadrules View Post
    I've been saying for a while that Misbah's role in the ODI team is to either play the finisher or to act as a safety-net, hence he is best suited to batting at 6 or 7. He doesn't have the versatility to bat at 4, because your almost resigned to only putting up a competitive score as opposed to a good score if you lose a couple of early wickets. His approach is not conducive to maintaining or reviving any significant momentum.

    But we will always make the same mistakes in ODIs, as we have been for the last decade.

    1. Playing Hafeez up the order.
    2. Playing 6 bowlers when are batting is very very weak (most teams would try to beef up the batting to compensate but not us)
    3. Batting YK and Misbah at 3 and 4 respectively, thus effectively destroying any momentum the openers may have created, taking too long to accelerate or not leaving sufficient deliveries for stroke players like Umar Akmal to post a good score.
    4. Continuing to bat Akmal down the order even though he is probably the best all-round ODI batsman in the country.

    I know the argument is that if Misbah bats lower down the team us going to be bowled out cheaply. But it's negative to go in to a defensive mode after the fall of just 2 wickets. I'm not saying the number 4 should come out slogging but he should be someone who is versatile enough to keep the scoreboard ticking.
    My friend.... My analysis is independent of batting positions... based on the stats in OP.... there in only position Misbah should be playing at....

    that is #12.


    How does my analysis in OP implies that he should bat at #6/#7???


    Misbah has batted at #6, 7 and 8 about 28 times in his career.... his average is only 32 at those positions...
    http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...g;view=innings

    As a captain (when he is in charge of his batting position).... he has batted at #6, 7 and 8....only 5 times...t an average of 31.. with 2 not outs
    http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...g;view=innings


    Are you implying Misbah does not know his batting position ... and you do?
    Last edited by W63L35; 18th August 2014 at 09:37.

  17. #17
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    You are on fire. @W63L35

    That is very well researched; eye opener indeed!

    Good to see you returning back to form.
    Last edited by Fallen King; 18th August 2014 at 09:37.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackanhyellow View Post
    agreed. So name a replacement for Misbah? Lets see who you think can bat like Inzamam/ MoYo from the current players.
    Name a replacement? The guy is 40 years old, even if hypothetically we don't find any ready made replacement for the next 10 years, will we persist with misbah till he is 50?

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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by W63L35 View Post
    You did not read the first 4 lines of the OP.....




    Yes... you right... Misbah did bat because top order scored runs... OBVIOUSLY ..... he was NOT needed..
    similarly... he got out for less than 25 ball .. OBVIOUSLY....... either top order or middle order scored run....


    So..... what is the difference... .

    Point is Misbah's batting WAS NOT NEEDED... !

    I am surprised you are finding it a laughing matter.
    Yeah I get what you are saying bud.

    However Misbah is not the only batsman in the team... Just because he faces more than 24 balls and Pakistan lose does not mean that it was because of him. Where were the other players lol? Was he batting without a partner on the other side of the wicket?

    Cmon man, critisize him for his captaincy that is on, but as a player he averages like 47ish.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam18696 View Post
    @W63L35 You're obsession with proving Misbah is worthless is disturbing.
    Before you go to bed, ask your mom to read "Ayatul Kursi" at you....... and you won't be disturbed at all... and will get a good night's sleep.


  21. #21
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    There is a film which many may have seen here called Moneyball, using analytical tactics to win matches. Now this is obviously about baseball, but other sports have used this same model of looking at analytics and have won championships with this method. Cricket is starting to embrace this, and yet Pakistan is still hell bent on pretty looking players and their amazing technique. Fact is, if you cannot score in the pathetic domestic circuit that many of you lament, then how the hell will you score internationally (Khurram, Azhar, Shafiq). Look at the best players historically and their averages in domestic, Pakistanis particularly and you will find 9 times out of ten, these players are successful.

    Stats are showing what Misbah brings to the table and looks deeper into what is happening and a grandeur scale.

    Now is he a bad player? No. Would I necessarily take him off? No. But as said above, he is suited to that )-7 spot to either slog or be a safety net. Otherwise his pathetic Tuk Tuk, whether it be with 300 runs on the board or 10 has a net negative effect

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackanhyellow View Post
    Yeah I get what you are saying bud.

    However Misbah is not the only batsman in the team... Just because he faces more than 24 balls and Pakistan lose does not mean that it was because of him. Where were the other players lol? Was he batting without a partner on the other side of the wicket?

    Cmon man, critisize him for his captaincy that is on, but as a player he averages like 47ish.
    How about this way. Basically when the others perform, Misbah is not needed hence the under 24 balls, and when they don't and he is, he doesn't play positive cricket to win them the match.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackanhyellow View Post
    Yeah I get what you are saying bud.
    No you don't. If you did ... then there won't be any lols in your posts.

    Quote Originally Posted by blackanhyellow View Post
    Cmon man, critisize him for his captaincy that is on, but as a player he averages like 47ish.
    He occupies the crease and wastes too many balls for other batsmen to score runs.


    Quote Originally Posted by blackanhyellow View Post
    However Misbah is not the only batsman in the team... Just because he faces more than 24 balls and Pakistan lose does not mean that it was because of him. Where were the other players lol? Was he batting without a partner on the other side of the wicket?
    For Pakistan to win, his batting partners have to bat like this... when he is batting like this... and not all of his partners can bat like this... !



  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelo green View Post
    How about this way. Basically when the others perform, Misbah is not needed hence the under 24 balls, and when they don't and he is, he doesn't play positive cricket to win them the match.
    No. How about this.....?


    When he leaves plenty of balls for other batsmen to score runs, they score at a decent run rate and Pakistan wins.
    When he hogs the strike and plays dot after dot... he does not leave enough balls for other batsmen to score runs.... hence Pakistan loses.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by W63L35 View Post
    No you don't. If you did ... then there won't be any lols in your posts.



    He occupies the crease and wastes too many balls for other batsmen to score runs.




    For Pakistan to win, his batting partners have to bat like this... when he is batting like this... and not all of his partners can bat like this... !


    Thanks for proving my point with that picture of yours. When you have Lalas, Juniors, professors that are not able to average even 40, batting collapses happen. Maybe if these guys didnt have hero complexes and just batted normally (average 45+) I would be on your side and say Misbah isnt needed. But noooo, everybody wants to win the match in 10 overs.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by W63L35 View Post
    No. How about this.....?


    When he leaves plenty of balls for other batsmen to score runs, they score at a decent run rate and Pakistan wins.
    When he hogs the strike and plays dot after dot... he does not leave enough balls for other batsmen to score runs.... hence Pakistan loses.
    That works too, but mine can apply as well. There is a huge catch 22 with Misbah and I wish when we faced teams like Bang and Zim we rested him to see what would happen.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by W63L35 View Post
    No you don't. If you did ... then there won't be any lols in your posts.



    He occupies the crease and wastes too many balls for other batsmen to score runs.




    For Pakistan to win, his batting partners have to bat like this... when he is batting like this... and not all of his partners can bat like this... !


    Oh Man , this is killing me softly. What a legendary picture. 149 in 36 overs is a really poor RR in the modern game but because of Misbah's tuk tuk and Afridi's brilliance, it was achieved at a moderate pace.

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    He needs to drop his ego and bat at 6 that appears pretty clear


    Either way I reckon his time will soon be up

    Fawad Alam comes across as an improved version of misbah.


    "Last time Uganda toured Canada, half their team ran away to start a new life" - cricfan967

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    Quote Originally Posted by steelo green View Post

    Stats are showing what Misbah brings to the table and looks deeper into what is happening and a grandeur scale.

    Now is he a bad player? No. Would I necessarily take him off? No. But as said above, he is suited to that )-7 spot to either slog or be a safety net. Otherwise his pathetic Tuk Tuk, whether it be with 300 runs on the board or 10 has a net negative effect
    Read post # 16 above.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelo green View Post
    That works too, but mine can apply as well. There is a huge catch 22 with Misbah and I wish when we faced teams like Bang and Zim we rested him to see what would happen.
    Why cant he be rested against the major teams? Is losing to Bang and Zimb less shameful compared to major teams?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    Why cant he be rested against the major teams? Is losing to Bang and Zimb less shameful compared to major teams?
    I think he meant because they are easier teams we wouldnt lose to them even if we didnt play our full side.

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    Quote Originally Posted by W63L35 View Post
    No you don't. If you did ... then there won't be any lols in your posts.



    He occupies the crease and wastes too many balls for other batsmen to score runs.




    For Pakistan to win, his batting partners have to bat like this... when he is batting like this... and not all of his partners can bat like this... !



    Again a misleading example....

    Here is the scorecard.

    http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/645635.html

    Pak were 47/5 at one time. What was he supposed to do? Helped Pak reach a respectable score and win the game. Did not steal balls from anyone as the op implies.


    Pakistani batsmen - An endangered species?

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackanhyellow View Post
    I think he meant because they are easier teams we wouldnt lose to them even if we didnt play our full side.
    We have lost to Zimbabwe twice under his reign and almost lost to bang had it not been for Afridis miracle and ofcourse misbah getting out early

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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    Why cant he be rested against the major teams? Is losing to Bang and Zimb less shameful compared to major teams?
    Not a bad point either. I want to see what this team is without knowing you have this anchor in the middle. We always hear the "man oh man Pakistan won't score 100", but you have to let a bird out of the nest sometimes to know if it can fly. Any time Pakistan has scored 300 runs in the past year, Misbah has almost never been apart of it.

    Misbah is usually there with 50 runs with a total of 220-230 and the bowling wins us the match. I cannot remember a time when Misbah was batting and took us to a huge total in a win. Anyone?

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    We have lost to Zimbabwe twice under his reign and almost lost to bang had it not been for Afridis miracle and ofcourse misbah getting out early

    Sent from my SGH-T999V using Tapatalk
    Yep though people will deny it

    Misbah getting out early and fawad coming in played a big factor in that win


    "Last time Uganda toured Canada, half their team ran away to start a new life" - cricfan967

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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    We have lost to Zimbabwe twice under his reign and almost lost to bang had it not been for Afridis miracle and ofcourse misbah getting out early

    Sent from my SGH-T999V using Tapatalk
    Had it not been for Umar against Afghanistan where Misbah scored 0, we would have lost to them as well.

    Pretty much Pakistan works this way. Shehzad and Umar must score, and if they do not, Misbah is there to anchor Pakistans way to around 200. Adding Fawad has made Misbah useless. Hafeez and Afridi cannot both be on a team with such a weakness in batting and one should be dropped for another batsmen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steelo green View Post
    Not a bad point either. I want to see what this team is without knowing you have this anchor in the middle. We always hear the "man oh man Pakistan won't score 100", but you have to let a bird out of the nest sometimes to know if it can fly. Any time Pakistan has scored 300 runs in the past year, Misbah has almost never been apart of it.

    Misbah is usually there with 50 runs with a total of 220-230 and the bowling wins us the match. I cannot remember a time when Misbah was batting and took us to a huge total in a win. Anyone?

    No doubt w63 can validate this but I think when Misbah the captain scores more than 40+ Pakistan has only made more than 250 3 times. That's against zimbawae and West Indies


    "Last time Uganda toured Canada, half their team ran away to start a new life" - cricfan967

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by fawad_wellwisher View Post
    Again a misleading example....

    Here is the scorecard.

    http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/645635.html

    Pak were 47/5 at one time. What was he supposed to do? Helped Pak reach a respectable score and win the game. Did not steal balls from anyone as the op implies.
    A Sr of 70 was the minimum acceptable in this situation. Again the lie that it is impossible to consolidate while scoring at a decent rate without losing further wickets and playing risk free cricket.

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    Its okay I know where you guys are coming from. I was scarred after the t20 final loss and the loss in mohali. But I am a forgiving person

    Seriously though, captain Misbah has been extremely poor but Misbah the batsman hasn't done that bad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fawad_wellwisher View Post
    Again a misleading example....

    Here is the scorecard.

    http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/645635.html

    Pak were 47/5 at one time. What was he supposed to do? Helped Pak reach a respectable score and win the game. Did not steal balls from anyone as the op implies.
    If you believe Misbah is a top class and world class batsman... then he could have done what some of these no-name batsmen did in the SAME position. 27 runs in 92 balls was definitely was not the answer.

    Team Score: 97/4 while chasing 267. Morgan scores 103 @ S/R of 121.17 without any six.
    http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/426387.html

    Team Score: 95/5 (56/4). Andy Flower scores 142 @ S/R of 110.93 with only 1 six.
    http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64730.html

    Team Score: 21/4. Brendon Taylor scores 128* @ S/R of 106.66.
    http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/527014.html

    Team Score: 93/5 (56/4). George Baily scores 125* @ S/R of 113.63 with only 1 six.
    http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/573023.html

    Team Score: 111/5 while chasing 327. Kevin O'Brian scores 113 @ S/R of 179.36.
    http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/433572.html

    Team Score: 83/4. Owais Shah scores 107* @ S/R of 112.63 with only 1 six.
    http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/258476.htm

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    Quote Originally Posted by steelo green View Post
    Not a bad point either. I want to see what this team is without knowing you have this anchor in the middle. We always hear the "man oh man Pakistan won't score 100", but you have to let a bird out of the nest sometimes to know if it can fly. Any time Pakistan has scored 300 runs in the past year, Misbah has almost never been apart of it.

    Misbah is usually there with 50 runs with a total of 220-230 and the bowling wins us the match. I cannot remember a time when Misbah was batting and took us to a huge total in a win. Anyone?
    You either did not see OP or did not understand OP.

    I showed you ... what happened when the "anchor in the middle" was not there.
    24 or less ball is SAME as not being there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by W63L35 View Post
    You either did not see OP or did not understand OP.

    I showed you ... what happened when the "anchor in the middle" was not there.
    24 or less ball is SAME as not being there.
    No, I did lol, I meant without his presence at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by W63L35 View Post
    If you believe Misbah is a top class and world class batsman... then he could have done what some of these no-name batsmen did in the SAME position. 27 runs in 92 balls was definitely was not the answer.

    Team Score: 97/4 while chasing 267. Morgan scores 103 @ S/R of 121.17 without any six.
    http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/426387.html

    Team Score: 95/5 (56/4). Andy Flower scores 142 @ S/R of 110.93 with only 1 six.
    http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64730.html

    Team Score: 21/4. Brendon Taylor scores 128* @ S/R of 106.66.
    http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/527014.html

    Team Score: 93/5 (56/4). George Baily scores 125* @ S/R of 113.63 with only 1 six.
    http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/573023.html

    Team Score: 111/5 while chasing 327. Kevin O'Brian scores 113 @ S/R of 179.36.
    http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/433572.html

    Team Score: 83/4. Owais Shah scores 107* @ S/R of 112.63 with only 1 six.
    http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/258476.htm
    But but but W63L35, Misbah has to deal with a bad lower order and as captain he cant do anything about the balance of the squad

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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    But but but W63L35, Misbah has to deal with a bad lower order and as captain he cant do anything about the balance of the squad
    You mean ......worse than Ireland (Kevin O'Brian) and Zimbabwe (Brendon Taylor) above?

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by W63L35 View Post
    If you believe Misbah is a top class and world class batsman... then he could have done what some of these no-name batsmen did in the SAME position. 27 runs in 92 balls was definitely was not the answer.
    Where did I say that? But he was a much better player that you give him credit for. Now that he is 40+ I am not so sure.

    The screenshot you show is misleading and does not tell the full story.

    Team Score: 97/4 while chasing 267. Morgan scores 103 @ S/R of 121.17 without any six.
    http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/426387.html

    Team Score: 95/5 (56/4). Andy Flower scores 142 @ S/R of 110.93 with only 1 six.
    http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64730.html

    Team Score: 21/4. Brendon Taylor scores 128* @ S/R of 106.66.
    http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/527014.html

    Team Score: 93/5 (56/4). George Baily scores 125* @ S/R of 113.63 with only 1 six.
    http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/573023.html

    Team Score: 111/5 while chasing 327. Kevin O'Brian scores 113 @ S/R of 179.36.
    http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/433572.html

    Team Score: 83/4. Owais Shah scores 107* @ S/R of 112.63 with only 1 six.
    http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/258476.htm
    You see I am not sure why you are giving me these one-off examples. Because I can give you counter examples such as this one

    http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/566944.html

    what is Morgan's S/R and why? Why is he playing like Misbah?

    And I am not even going to talk about players like Flower, Shah, and O'Brien who all averaged in the low 30s.

    And Bailey does not play for Pakistan. So I am not sure what your point is by giving examples of non-Pak players?

    I can bash Umar based on Bailey's record but would that be fair to him?

    In any case your metrics in the op, which is what this thread is about, are very superficial, and don't tell the whole story.The reality is that Misbah is/was a very good batsman who is a part of a very ordinary batting lineup. This has prevented him at numerous occasions from playing an aggressive game. His T20 S/R is testament to this.


    Pakistani batsmen - An endangered species?

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    Misbah lobbyist continue to embarrass themselves defending this man. Misbah needs to be made history ASAP, the youngsters who have played under him should spent several sessions with a sport psychologist who can help rid them of fear and timidness after Misbah is kicked out of the team, that's the only way we can move on from this horrid period.
    Last edited by DiamondDigger; 18th August 2014 at 10:50.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fawad_wellwisher View Post
    Where did I say that? But he was a much better player that you give him credit for. Now that he is 40+ I am not so sure.

    The screenshot you show is misleading and does not tell the full story.



    You see I am not sure why you are giving me these one-off examples. Because I can give you counter examples such as this one

    http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/566944.html

    what is Morgan's S/R and why? Why is he playing like Misbah?

    And I am not even going to talk about players like Flower, Shah, and O'Brien who all averaged in the low 30s.

    And Bailey does not play for Pakistan. So I am not sure what your point is by giving examples of non-Pak players?

    I can bash Umar based on Bailey's record but would that be fair to him?

    In any case your metrics in the op, which is what this thread is about, are very superficial, and don't tell the whole story.The reality is that Misbah is/was a very good batsman who is a part of a very ordinary batting lineup. This has prevented him at numerous occasions from playing an aggressive game. His T20 S/R is testament to this.
    T-20 SR, do you remember Misbah's second last and last T-20 game for Pakistan? Care to elaborate what happened there?

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    A Sr of 70 was the minimum acceptable in this situation. Again the lie that it is impossible to consolidate while scoring at a decent rate without losing further wickets and playing risk free cricket.

    Sent from my SGH-T999V using Tapatalk

    You see the thing of it is if you are going to logically attempt to assign blame then it has to start somewhere else because getting out cheaply and leaving others to play in order to get a respectable score should not absolve you from any blame.

    You have so far only blamed the symptom rather than focusing on the problem itself. And the problem is that we have a very ordinary batting lineup and first that has to be addressed before assigning blame to Misbah. We know from Misbah's T20 record that he can play at a high S/R. The reason he does not or cannot play that sort of game is because he is afraid if he got out there will be no one left to carry the innings.

    Bottom line is a 50 at a low S/R is still better than a single digit score.


    Pakistani batsmen - An endangered species?

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    Quote Originally Posted by fawad_wellwisher View Post
    You see the thing of it is if you are going to logically attempt to assign blame then it has to start somewhere else because getting out cheaply and leaving others to play in order to get a respectable score should not absolve you from any blame.

    You have so far only blamed the symptom rather than focusing on the problem itself. And the problem is that we have a very ordinary batting lineup and first that has to be addressed before assigning blame to Misbah. We know from Misbah's T20 record that he can play at a high S/R. The reason he does not or cannot play that sort of game is because he is afraid if he got out there will be no one left to carry the innings.

    Bottom line is a 50 at a low S/R is still better than a single digit score.
    Pakistan has universally had a top order batting problem since inception. And Secondly Misbah does not have fear of getting out because of the team's situation, he is a selfish batsmen who only values his own average, not out, statistics at the expense of the team. The approach Inzamam, Yousaf, Miandad, Salim Malik will have when the team is 30/4 or 45/5 will be still be positive, proactive, consolidating at a decent rate compared to Misbah who will bat at the same way whether he comes in at 40/1 or 45/5. This is the exact problem in the team today, he has spread a culture of fear and timidness.

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    W63L35 this post is a POTW winner one! You have given Pakistani team the key to success.

    Misbah is a complete looser of a cricketer, he has nothing to do with cricket.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    T-20 SR, do you remember Misbah's second last and last T-20 game for Pakistan? Care to elaborate what happened there?
    Yeah he a couple of bad games, that does not make a trend. He still has the highest batting ave. with a respectable S/R.

    http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...s;type=batting

    In any case does not deserve the criticism that come his way on PP. For God's sake, give the guy a break!


    Pakistani batsmen - An endangered species?

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by fawad_wellwisher View Post
    Yeah he a couple of bad games, that does not make a trend. He still has the highest batting ave. with a respectable S/R.

    http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...s;type=batting

    In any case does not deserve the criticism that come his way on PP. For God's sake, give the guy a break!
    He has had plenty of breaks in the last 4 years as captain, batsman. The excuses are over

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    Quote Originally Posted by fawad_wellwisher View Post
    Where did I say that? But he was a much better player that you give him credit for. Now that he is 40+ I am not so sure.

    The screenshot you show is misleading and does not tell the full story.
    No matter what the "story" is .... If you don't see a S/R of 29.35 (27 run in 92 ball in that picture above) as a huge problem... there is no use debating with you.




    Quote Originally Posted by fawad_wellwisher View Post
    You see I am not sure why you are giving me these one-off examples. Because I can give you counter examples such as this one

    http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/566944.html

    what is Morgan's S/R and why? Why is he playing like Misbah?

    And I am not even going to talk about players like Flower, Shah, and O'Brien who all averaged in the low 30s.

    And Bailey does not play for Pakistan. So I am not sure what your point is by giving examples of non-Pak players?

    I can bash Umar based on Bailey's record but would that be fair to him?
    One off examples??? In case of Misbah..... it is ROUTINE.... a S/R of 70 since... 1/20/2010 is the LOWEST among all batsmen with 2000+ runs.

    You did not comment on Kevin O'Brian of Ireland and Taylor of Zimbabwe?

    Quote Originally Posted by fawad_wellwisher View Post
    In any case your metrics in the op, which is what this thread is about, are very superficial, and don't tell the whole story.
    ...the whole Story is in OP... if Misbah does not bat for long, Plakistan wins... because other batsmen take care of scoring but when he does bat for long, we lose!! As simple as that.

    Quote Originally Posted by fawad_wellwisher View Post
    The reality is that Misbah is/was a very good batsman who is a part of a very ordinary batting lineup.
    Same ordinary batting line up which wins us matches when Misbah FAILS???

    read OP again!


    Quote Originally Posted by fawad_wellwisher View Post
    This has prevented him at numerous occasions from playing an aggressive game. His T20 S/R is testament to this.
    No.... HE HAS prevented other batsmen from playing an aggressive game becuse when he does not bat, they play aggressively and we win. See OP again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mobashir View Post
    W63L35 this post is a POTW winner one! You have given Pakistani team the key to success.

    Misbah is a complete looser of a cricketer, he has nothing to do with cricket.
    Thanks.

    I'll take you to dinner at restaurant of your choice (max $100 per person) if I win the POTW for this post.
    Hope you live in USA!

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    Quote Originally Posted by W63L35 View Post
    Thanks.

    I'll take you to dinner at restaurant of your choice (max $100 per person) if I win the POTW for this post.
    Hope you live in USA!
    For a Misbah bashing dinner I can travel to the USA even if I don't live there :p

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mobashir View Post
    For a Misbah bashing dinner I can travel to the USA even if I don't live there :p
    Let me know when you come!

    Dinner could be Misbah bashing .... but this post is definitely not. Just stating plain and simple facts in OP.

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    No matter what the "story" is .... If you don't see a S/R of 29.35 (27 run in 92 ball in that picture above) as a huge problem... there is no use debating with you.
    Disgraceful Typical Misbah strike rate in the modern era

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    Quote Originally Posted by W63L35 View Post
    Let me know when you come!

    Dinner could be Misbah bashing .... but this post is definitely not. Just stating plain and simple facts in OP.
    Giving facts about Misbah is considered as bashing by his fans!

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mobashir View Post
    Giving facts about Misbah is considered as bashing by his fans!
    Nothing unusual

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    not sure what to do with him.

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    Misbah does not deserve a spot with Fawad already being there and his SR is already very low which will be further worsened up by him loosing his weight as reflexes and power go down with weight loss at age of 40. I don't see him scoring any runs now. This should be our team:
    Sarfraz
    Sharjeel
    Haris
    Umar Akmal
    Fawad
    Sohaib
    Hafeez
    Bhatti
    Wahab
    Irfan
    Junaid
    The four pacers are ideal for worldcup with Fawad, Sohaib and Hafeez as good spinners. Fawad has already proved that he can bat out for us to play 50 Overs so no need of Misbah now.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    Pakistan has universally had a top order batting problem since inception. And Secondly Misbah does not have fear of getting out because of the team's situation, he is a selfish batsmen who only values his own average, not out, statistics at the expense of the team. The approach Inzamam, Yousaf, Miandad, Salim Malik will have when the team is 30/4 or 45/5 will be still be positive, proactive, consolidating at a decent rate compared to Misbah who will bat at the same way whether he comes in at 40/1 or 45/5. This is the exact problem in the team today, he has spread a culture of fear and timidness.
    Ohh is that the problem? You think Misbah is as good as Inzamam, or has the class of Miandad? Well he doesn't. Even the most loyal Misbah fans will admit that without hesitation. So its unfair to expect him to come in at 45/5 and bat at a strike rate of 90. Its just not his game. He doesn't have that talent. He plays within himself, however limited that may be. His game plan is not to lose his wicket, and to hold down one end to atleast attempt to bat out 50 overs.

    Misbah fans are not really Misbah fans at all. IMO we are realists, because we realize that Pakistan doesn't produce any more Miandads. For example, if Fawad Alam gets a long run and averages 50+ in ODIs you actually think we will still want Misbah in the team?

    Seriously if you can think anyone from Pakistan that can replicate Inzamam/Miandad name them now or else stop comparing past players to current ones. Compare current players to current players.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackanhyellow View Post
    Ohh is that the problem? You think Misbah is as good as Inzamam, or has the class of Miandad? Well he doesn't. Even the most loyal Misbah fans will admit that without hesitation. So its unfair to expect him to come in at 45/5 and bat at a strike rate of 90. Its just not his game. He doesn't have that talent. He plays within himself, however limited that may be. His game plan is not to lose his wicket, and to hold down one end to atleast attempt to bat out 50 overs.

    Misbah fans are not really Misbah fans at all. IMO we are realists, because we realize that Pakistan doesn't produce any more Miandads. For example, if Fawad Alam gets a long run and averages 50+ in ODIs you actually think we will still want Misbah in the team?

    Seriously if you can think anyone from Pakistan that can replicate Inzamam/Miandad name them now or else stop comparing past players to current ones. Compare current players to current players.
    Misbah has shown the ability to bat at very high strike rates by Rotating the strike when the situation demands it but most of the time he out selfishness for protecting his inflated worthless misleading average irrespective of the teams needs. Ofcourse the previous legends were much better players but he is not as talentless as his supporters keep alleging. He has the talent, ability but is only more cowardly and selfish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    Misbah has shown the ability to bat at very high strike rates by Rotating the strike when the situation demands it but most of the time he out selfishness for protecting his inflated worthless misleading average irrespective of the teams needs. Ofcourse the previous legends were much better players but he is not as talentless as his supporters keep alleging. He has the talent, ability but is only more cowardly and selfish.

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    The guy is 40, not 20

    Check how horrible Miandad was at 40 at the 96 WC. You can't expect him to play at a SR of 90 now.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by in_cutter View Post
    The guy is 40, not 20

    Check how horrible Miandad was at 40 at the 96 WC. You can't expect him to play at a SR of 90 now.
    The workload, wear and tear off miandad was much greater then the workload, wear and tear off misbah who started his career much late. Secondly I always maintained miandad should never have played the 96 wc as he was completely past it and was in the team due to political influence sadly. Misbah is hailed as the fittest guy in the Pak team, he still has the ability to hit big sixes when he wants to of both pacers and spinners. If we even agree he is shot as a player then what is he doing in the team as a player let alone as captain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    Misbah has shown the ability to bat at very high strike rates by Rotating the strike when the situation demands it but most of the time he out selfishness for protecting his inflated worthless misleading average irrespective of the teams needs. Ofcourse the previous legends were much better players but he is not as talentless as his supporters keep alleging. He has the talent, ability but is only more cowardly and selfish.

    Sent from my SGH-T999V using Tapatalk
    Anyways, Misbah should stay in the team as long as he is scoring runs consistently.

    Meanwhile replacements should be groomed, fawad, haris sohail, maqsood should all be given chances. Misbah will retire after WC, which is only a year away.

    Trust me we have worse things to worry about than Misbah ------->>>

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackanhyellow View Post
    Anyways, Misbah should stay in the team as long as he is scoring runs consistently.

    Meanwhile replacements should be groomed, fawad, haris sohail, maqsood should all be given chances. Misbah will retire after WC, which is only a year away.

    Trust me we have worse things to worry about than Misbah ------->>>
    When he was scoring runs the team was losing anyways and a major reason behind those loses were his tuk tuk, the pressure he created on his team mates, the defensive batting instructions given to the players. Whether misbah scores runs or not, Pakistan still loses. He is a bad batting role model and the team needs a fresh start.

    Sent from my SGH-T999V using Tapatalk

  68. #68
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    This is a silly analysis. Perhaps he faced more than 24 balls but the team was 30-4 or 60-7. Therefore he might have been scoring but the team around him was falling down.

    Although there is no way anyone can ever defend 27(90) in an ODI.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackanhyellow View Post
    Anyways, Misbah should stay in the team as long as he is scoring runs consistently.

    Meanwhile replacements should be groomed, fawad, haris sohail, maqsood should all be given chances. Misbah will retire after WC, which is only a year away.

    Trust me we have worse things to worry about than Misbah ------->>>
    Misbah is in very bad form. He is going to struggle. Such weight loss@40.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by W63L35 View Post
    This thread is dedicated to;
    1) Fans who believe.... Misbah is the back bone of the Pakistani batting in ODIs.
    2) Fans who believe that..... when Misbah scores runs, Pakistan wins in ODIs.
    3) Fans who believe that.... when if Misbah did not stay at the wicket, Pakistan would be in big trouble in ODIs.
    4) Fans who believe that..... if Misbah fails, Pakistan's ODI batting is too brittle to take the team home.
    ......and last but not the least.
    5) My friend Savak's determination to speak the truth and keep speaking it.


    Following stats evaluate if there is a relationship (or cause and effect) between Misbah's duration of stay at the wicket in ODIs and the impact on Match Result.

    I divided Misbah's ODI innings into two categories;

    1) Misbah stayed at the wicket for only 24 or less ball or Did not bat all.
    ODIs where Misbah did not contribute all and other batsmen did most of the scoring.

    2) Misbah stayed at the wicket for 25 or more balls.
    ODIs where Misbah's contribution was significant.

    I have excluded rained out and unfinished matches but did include tied ODIs.

    So........... let's see how Pakistan team did when the ODIs are broken down in above two categories.


    I picked 4 different time frames .......
    a) Since Jan 1, 2012.
    b) Since Oct 29, 2010 - Misbah's Return to the Team.
    c) All ODIs with Misbah as Team Captain.

    ..and for the fans who may think that the sample size in a, b and c is not large enough;
    d)All ODIs - whole career.


    You can clearly see that success/win rate drastically improves when Misbah either does not bat at all or gets to play only 24 balls or less.

    Most mind-blowing stats are that Team's Win/Loss Ratio is 7.50 when Misbah as captain does not bat more than 24 ball.... but drops down to a losing Win/Loss Ratio of 0.89 if he happens to stay more than 24 balls. AMAZING!!!!!!


    So... based on following 4 tables;

    Question: Why do we need Misbah to bat more than 24 balls in an ODI then?



    .
    Since January 01, 2012

    Total won matches & tied matches 28

    Misbah bats less than 24 balls 13 (46.43%)
    Misbah bats more than 24 balls 15 (53.57%)

    So in these 14 won and 1 tied matches where Misbah did played more than 24 balls and contributed with runs. If he wasnot there any other batsman playing in his place and batting position would have scored those runs and helped Pakistan win those 14 matches. Misbah's contribution in those wins is nothing, therwise in 53.57% (which is still less) matches where Misbah does play more than 24 balls Pakistan have won is little acceptable considering the other Tendulkars, Laras, Viv Richards and Miandads etc of Pakistan batting lineup in these years.


    Total loss matches 28

    Misbah bats less than 24 balls 2 (7.14%)
    Misbah bats more than 24 balls win 26 (92.86%)

    The real problem here is these 26 lost matches where Misbah played more than 24 balls but still didn't manage to win the game for Pakistan. So we have to see what happened in those 26 lost matches.

    The list is as per below.

    http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...g;view=innings

    If 80% SR or above is acceptable than Misbah scored in 7 out of those 26 matches with a SR 80% or above in matches where balls played more than 24.

    So we are left with 19 matches where Misbah has played more than 24 balls but didnot help Pakistan. Going through the scorecards of those matches. Few questions come up for the reason of those losses

    1) It was because of Misbah other players didnot score?
    2) It was because of Misbah other players scored at a very low rate?
    3) If any other batsman would have played instead of Misbah in those 26 matches Pakistan would have won most of them because they play with better SR?
    5) It doesnot matter if Misbah had scored Pakistan still lost those matches.

    For me the reason for all those losses was not Misbah, yes in few matches he did batted slow and we can call him the match ka mujrim but it is not the case in all those losses. Pakistan could have pulled few wins like the 10 runs loss to India, or a one run loss to South Africa or even when not be able to defend an ok total of 244 against Zimbabwe or not able to defend a total of 284 against Sri Lanka. If atleast 5 matches Pakistan would have won we would be saying that Pakistan wins 60% of the when Mishbah plays more than 24 balls.

    The list is available to decide.
    Last edited by youboy; 18th August 2014 at 15:50.

  71. #71
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    Good analysis, but if it was meant for hardcore fans than you will find only refusal from their side

    My concise statement on all the above analysis is just this: In ODI cricket, If Misbah is burdened with responsibility (when nearly all other batsmen fail), he rarely makes any winning contribution. He batting is only good for damage control & nothing beyond.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricwiz View Post
    Good analysis, but if it was meant for hardcore fans than you will find only refusal from their side

    My concise statement on all the above analysis is just this:

    In ODI cricket, If Misbah is burdened with responsibility (when nearly all other batsmen fail), he rarely makes any winning contribution. He batting is only good for damage control & nothing beyond.
    Somewhat agree with the bold part.

  73. #73
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    well done again @W63L35 bhai

    Misbah fans will always try hard to prove Misbah is a match winner but the fact is he was kind of a player who was only born for personal milestones..If Misbah was introduced in his early 20s he might have been a different player but because his career started when a batsman is on his last legs, he had to score no matter what way to keep himself in the side..And once he found that people are happy him scoring even if team lose because they got perfect excuse "Other batsmen failed , top order collapsed, so what Misbah would have done?" he continued to keep floating his sinking ship.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricwiz View Post
    Good analysis, but if it was meant for hardcore fans than you will find only refusal from their side

    My concise statement on all the above analysis is just this: In ODI cricket, If Misbah is burdened with responsibility (when nearly all other batsmen fail), he rarely makes any winning contribution. He batting is only good for damage control & nothing beyond.
    A lot of times he himself does the damage. All our ex legends had to deal with severe top order problems and the top order dealt with middle order lower order collapses but that never stopped them from leading Pakistan to wins by consolidating effectively. Misbah has made a career out of excuses

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    A lot of times he himself does the damage. All our ex legends had to deal with severe top order problems and the top order dealt with middle order lower order collapses but that never stopped them from leading Pakistan to wins by consolidating effectively. Misbah has made a career out of excuses
    Any links to some of those matches?

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by W63L35 View Post
    Thank you guys!!!

    Here is the list of matches since January 1, 2012....... from the first table in OP... just in case, if any body has any doubts...!
    Shows that he belongs at #5, and players like Fawad and Umar deserve to be ahead of him in the pecking order. But hey, that won't happen.


    Hai yeh Josh-e-Junoon, hai yeh apna yaqeen, ke jo tum mein hai dum, woh kisi mein nahin!

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by W63L35 View Post
    Thank you guys!!!

    Here is the list of matches since January 1, 2012....... from the first table in OP... just in case, if any body has any doubts...!
    Shows that he belongs at #5, and players like Fawad and Umar deserve to be ahead of him in the pecking order. But hey, that won't happen.


    Hai yeh Josh-e-Junoon, hai yeh apna yaqeen, ke jo tum mein hai dum, woh kisi mein nahin!

  78. #78
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    Couple of things.

    1. The OP has done a great job accumulating those stats. Hats off to you. Agree or disagree you have to applaud the effort put into these posts. Its why this forum is so good.

    2. Stats do not lie and the ones in the OP paint a bad picture, but in this case the stats only focus on 1 guy. Make a similar thread for Pakistans entire batting unit and I guarantee the amount of sub 24 ball innings would be shocking. I'm sure the whole batting line up would have similar if not worse stats.

    3. The stats dont take into account the teams position when Misbah came onto the crease. If a team is 45/3 when Misbah comes on and then loses 2 more quick wickets as happened in the WI game pictured above, then obviously he'll play ultra defensively because if he gets out, the team folds for less than 100. Also, very rarely will a player like Afridi make more than 30 because of his aggressive nature. Sure he'll score big occasionally but relying on him to perform consistently with the bat is misguided IMO.

    4. The stats above dont take into account whether Pakistan is batting first or chasing, which would have a big impact on how aggressively a player bats. If batting first you'll consolidate at first and then kick on once you've stabilised, whereas chasing you have no choice but to try keep in touch with the required run rate. If majority of innings are batting first, then the odds are he'll look to consolidate rather than hit sixes, especially as is often the case, when the team is 45/3 or 4 wickets down. If batting second and you find yourself 46/4 or so, then you need 1 guy to hit big boundaries and one other guy to turn over the strike. Misbah is naturally suited to turning over the strike so he probably feels its better if he leaves the big hitting to others e.g. U Akmal or Afridi. When this doesnt happen or fails, the team is already in no mans land and loses heavily, which probably makes Misbah's figures and strike rate look worse than they actually are. Look at Mohali, I'm sure Misbah was hoping for Younus or U Akmal to hit at a good rate, when this didnt materialize he was left stranded and his innings stood out as the worst. Call this making excuses, its just my opinion.

    5. Misbah is captain so responsibility is on him to play with a cool head, which rules out the Afridi-esque approach. He's also expected to bring his team home of they are in trouble, which may be a reason for his defensive batting e.g. if he gets out people will talk about how he doesnt have the bottle to guide his teams chase whereas if Afridi gets out, people can claim he was trying to accelerate/repair the damage Misbah caused, rather than criticise him.This makes Afridi and others who fail look way better than the actually are. IMO you need your captain to be more cool headed than others, otherwise he'll spend most of the match in the hut.

    6. No matter how bad Misbah is in your eyes, you cannot possibly blame him for all the teams faults. You're only harming the team by doing this as the top order that constantly fails will eventually feel they will never be held accountable and get complacent. Misbah is just 1 man and yes he is captain, but he cannot possibly be blamed for the constant batting collapses Pakistan endure. The team is comprised of men, not Misbah and a bunch of kids, so blame all of them if they've failed, not just Misbah. You'll promote a good atmosphere of accountability if all are held responsible, and the captain isnt scapegoated for everything.

    Just my thoughts. Feel free to disagree.
    Last edited by Donal Cozzie; 18th August 2014 at 23:47.


    See You Space Cowboy....

  79. #79
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    Amazing research @W63L35 bhai. I am printing your threads. I am gonna show them to Sheryar khan once my university opens. I am with you on this.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donal Cozzie View Post
    Couple of things.

    1. The OP has done a great job accumulating those stats. Hats off to you. Agree or disagree you have to applaud the effort put into these posts. Its why this forum is so good.

    2. Stats do not lie and the ones in the OP paint a bad picture, but in this case the stats only focus on 1 guy. Make a similar thread for Pakistans entire batting unit and I guarantee the amount of sub 24 ball innings would be shocking. I'm sure the whole batting line up would have similar if not worse stats.

    3. The stats dont take into account the teams position when Misbah came onto the crease. If a team is 45/3 when Misbah comes on and then loses 2 more quick wickets as happened in the WI game pictured above, then obviously he'll play ultra defensively because if he gets out, the team folds for less than 100. Also, very rarely will a player like Afridi make more than 30 because of his aggressive nature. Sure he'll score big occasionally but relying on him to perform consistently with the bat is misguided IMO.

    4. The stats above dont take into account whether Pakistan is batting first or chasing, which would have a big impact on how aggressively a player bats. If batting first you'll consolidate at first and then kick on once you've stabilised, whereas chasing you have no choice but to try keep in touch with the required run rate. If majority of innings are batting first, then the odds are he'll look to consolidate rather than hit sixes, especially as is often the case, when the team is 45/3 or 4 wickets down. If batting second and you find yourself 46/4 or so, then you need 1 guy to hit big boundaries and one other guy to turn over the strike. Misbah is naturally suited to turning over the strike so he probably feels its better if he leaves the big hitting to others e.g. U Akmal or Afridi. When this doesnt happen or fails, the team is already in no mans land and loses heavily, which probably makes Misbah's figures and strike rate look worse than they actually are. Look at Mohali, I'm sure Misbah was hoping for Younus or U Akmal to hit at a good rate, when this didnt materialize he was left stranded and his innings stood out as the worst. Call this making excuses, its just my opinion.

    5. Misbah is captain so responsibility is on him to play with a cool head, which rules out the Afridi-esque approach. He's also expected to bring his team home of they are in trouble, which may be a reason for his defensive batting e.g. if he gets out people will talk about how he doesnt have the bottle to guide his teams chase whereas if Afridi gets out, people can claim he was trying to accelerate/repair the damage Misbah caused, rather than criticise him.This makes Afridi and others who fail look way better than the actually are. IMO you need your captain to be more cool headed than others, otherwise he'll spend most of the match in the hut.

    6. No matter how bad Misbah is in your eyes, you cannot possibly blame him for all the teams faults. You're only harming the team by doing this as the top order that constantly fails will eventually feel they will never be held accountable and get complacent. Misbah is just 1 man and yes he is captain, but he cannot possibly be blamed for the constant batting collapses Pakistan endure. The team is comprised of men, not Misbah and a bunch of kids, so blame all of them if they've failed, not just Misbah. You'll promote a good atmosphere of accountability if all are held responsible, and the captain isnt scapegoated for everything.

    Just my thoughts. Feel free to disagree.

    Ok look i have no problem with batting at a slow strike rate when the situation calls for it,

    what i have a problem with is batting the same way no matter the match situation!!! Misbah bats the same way no matter the situation it makes no sense.

    like for example if you are so worried about your top order why does misbah not bat at number 3? This way if we lose an early wicket , misbah can come in an close up one end? if we dont lose wickets send in the stroke makers!

    Also if your chasing you can not come in bat at a low strike rate cause it all does is put pressure on the other batsman, no one can honestly tell me mohali 2011 was not anything but a selfish innings with common sense whats so ever!


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