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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkrai View Post
    Don't worry India might fluke a win or two.
    Very remote possibility.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilan Bluestone View Post
    Real and realistic have different meanings. Realistic is not an apt choice of vernacular.

    If anyone believes Babar has not contributed to winning then they're flat out incorrect.
    Even Amla helped South Africa win.

    The right choice of words would be "boring accumalator" without any chasing ability.

    But that is only so far.

    One thing he has over Amla is youth so he might end up even being more attacking.

    Otherwise having Amla in Pakistan team or an Amla like batsmen isnt too bad.

    I just feel he is not the man to help Pakistan chase big totals.


    And I get so high.. And I just can't feel it....

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by msb314 View Post
    Actually no.

    He batted a a SR of 50 during the early part of his innings.

    I think he was like 15 of 30 balls.
    No, you remember it wrongly. His strike rate hardly ever went below 80 in that innings.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    A batsman who takes 60-70 deliveries to get going does not need any stopping.

    Babar has been pacing his innings poorly for a while now, and his strike rate hovers around 65-70 for his 50 odd runs which is not good enough.

    Unless Babar learns to ensure that his strike rate does not drop below 80 at any stage and minimizes his dot ball percentage, he will not be much of a threat to top flight opposition.

    At the moment, Fakhar is the only player in the team who can hurt the opposition with the bat.
    But you are the one who always used to praise Babar!!!! Why suddenly you think he is rubbish?

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shafi View Post
    But you are the one who always used to praise Babar!!!! Why suddenly you think he is rubbish?
    He is not rubbish. He is the best batsman Pakistan has produced since Yousaf, but he needs to change his approach and make a bigger impact instead of being the milestone man.

    He has the ability to do so, but he needs to show more. If not, his runs would count for little against top flight opposition.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    He is not rubbish. He is the best batsman Pakistan has produced since Yousaf, but he needs to change his approach and make a bigger impact instead of being the milestone man.

    He has the ability to do so, but he needs to show more. If not, his runs would count for little against top flight opposition.
    Nice post brother. A hint of positivity about it even. And valid, constructive reasons for the negative points. I agree with you.

  7. #87
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    He will do well in UAE - no real challenges for batsmen on these pitches


    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaankeJi View Post
    Teams cannot plan keeping only Babar in mind. There will be another batsman as well. For example, if two spinners are brought in, Babar can just take a single and give strike to the other batsman who will smack spinners.
    That risk always be there - one set batsman at other end can smack spinner. But, it'll not be that easy for Babar also to maneuver strike against spinner at the start, if the fielding is set accordingly. He can hit odd boundaries, but playing 4/5 spin balls in every over might get him out cheap at the start. Also, you are missing another key point - if your partner is struggling/bogged down, his (here, I guess you are suggesting Fakhar, fair enough) job becomes twice difficult, because he'll have to compensate his partner as well, which results in extra aggression and often fatal. If Babar starts to concede too many dots, his partner'll be more vulnerable, regardless of who is bowling.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRsohail View Post
    you nailed it bro unlike some attention seekers here calling him nothing player.
    He is one of the best player in world. Average & SR often is misleading, as it doesn't factor the context or opponent; but ICC batting ranking does - it does factor how much run is scored, against whom and when. Someone can't be in top 5 in ranking table for almost 2 years now just by piling soft, impact-less runs.

  10. #90
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    Babar azam should only pad up vs minnows. This guy will hurt us more than he will help us.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    He is one of the best player in world. Average & SR often is misleading, as it doesn't factor the context or opponent; but ICC batting ranking does - it does factor how much run is scored, against whom and when. Someone can't be in top 5 in ranking table for almost 2 years now just by piling soft, impact-less runs.
    I dont know ahy some of these attention seekrs are against him.May be they have not seen some solid bat from pak so they are not used to it and likes afridi and fakhar kinda flashy bat but remmber class will remain.With Afridi and Fakahr you never know what is gonna happen in next series but our fragile batting line up needs Babar and the series we have won so far even against weak oppositions ,Babar has a role in it,I will buy BABAr 45 in the final over Hafeez 58 knowing the situation they were in>Babar did it strategically well,the way he went to other mood after Fakhar got out shown how good he can be.We have seen our batting line up collapsing against Zimbabway and Afghanistan,so its better for some of these narcissistic guys to stay away.

  12. #92
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    Bizarre thread.

    Pakistani fans get together to discuss the thread posed by Babar on behalf of India and no Indian fans care.

    Guys, stop pretending that Babar is Pakistani equivalent of Kohli, LMAO!

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    He is one of the best player in world. Average & SR often is misleading, as it doesn't factor the context or opponent; but ICC batting ranking does - it does factor how much run is scored, against whom and when. Someone can't be in top 5 in ranking table for almost 2 years now just by piling soft, impact-less runs.
    I rarely disagree with you but here I have to a bit.

    He is a good player but NOT quite close to best in the world.

    Infact, if people prematurely call him that based on his bashing of West Indies and Sri Lanka mostly (agree there was a soft hundred vs Australia when Pakistan were chasing leather and he batted way too slow to make any change to result) as the best batsmen in the world, then he has do nothing about his game as he is already the best.

    But he needs to improve majorly in pacing his innings.

    However, he is the least of Pakistan's worries and should be a vital cog in our side for a long time.


    And I get so high.. And I just can't feel it....

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Bassim View Post
    I rarely disagree with you but here I have to a bit.

    He is a good player but NOT quite close to best in the world.

    Infact, if people prematurely call him that based on his bashing of West Indies and Sri Lanka mostly (agree there was a soft hundred vs Australia when Pakistan were chasing leather and he batted way too slow to make any change to result) as the best batsmen in the world, then he has do nothing about his game as he is already the best.

    But he needs to improve majorly in pacing his innings.

    However, he is the least of Pakistan's worries and should be a vital cog in our side for a long time.
    You have to consider age as well. Most people compare Babar with the best at their prime. By the age of 25, I don't think Kohli or Smith or even AB was that special. Batsmen reaches peak at around 29 & 3-4 years either side - Babar is entering that age just now. Also, you should consider that he has played majority of games in UAE, which isn't conducive of stroke play or big innings, and the outfield is slow for touch players with timing. Babar can't lot sixes effortlessly like AB or Kohli or Sharma, therefore playing at Dubai or Abu Dhabi isn't that easy for him either. No credit taken, but Kohli first 3-4 years was dominated by SRL bashing as well.

    Regarding pacing the innings, I personally think more than capability, it's his selfishness - guy plays for own milestone. I posted an analysis on that, but forgot details now. His relative SR (compared to team's scoring rate) reduces significantly in 4th quarter (75 to 100), and it jumps sky high from 100+. Obviously, any batsman's SR will increase from 1st Q to 2nd Q to 3rd to 4th to 5th; but in a 50 limited overs game, that comparison should be done with relative team scoring rate, not on absolute value - even Azhar Ali is much faster in scoring in his 2nd 50 than 1st 50. There are few occasions, when one can be allowed to bat slowly (like the CT final, where FZ set the platform for 375, Babar made sure that it doesn't choke at 275 and MoHa made it 338, instead of 360), but he should be given specific target to reach by end of milestone (overs). Now that PAK's tail is decent, that has to be factored in batting strategy.

    One player like Babar is essential in any team, for us Tamim is doing that. For better batting units like IND, SAF, NZ, AUS or ENG - 5 batsmen, Sharma, Amla, Williamson, Smith & Root also takes their time, but they are well covered by other batsmen surrounding them. I didn't check the stats, but just like Babar's stats take a dip against better teams, I am sure other PAK middle order batsmen's do also and my hunch is that gap is higher for PAK (simple - calculate Babar's drop from top 5 vs bottom 5; and calculate MoHa, Malik, Sarfraz's drop for the same - both for average & SR), which shows the overall lack of quality, rather than Babar's individual problem.

    As I said many times, best solution for the time being is to open with him and allow to bat is PP against pacers, when new ball comes on to bat. White Kookaburra doesn't swing much and these days ODI tracks hardly offer any seem movement - he should enjoy better as opener. He is a fine timer with very good balance on both feet and he can find gaps, may be Haris or Amin at 3 - and both'll do MUCH better than Ul Haq's nephew. Babar can maneuver singles MUCH, MUCH better than Imam, which should benefit Fakhar as well in PP.

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    He is one of the best player in world. Average & SR often is misleading, as it doesn't factor the context or opponent; but ICC batting ranking does - it does factor how much run is scored, against whom and when. Someone can't be in top 5 in ranking table for almost 2 years now just by piling soft, impact-less runs.
    He averages 38 with SR 82 against top teams: Eng, India, Aus, NZ, SA. His averages is hugely boosted by playing against weak and minnow level teams.

  16. #96
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    i dont think Indian want to stop him.They want him bat as long as possible and slow the run rate.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by AMSS View Post
    Bizarre thread.

    Pakistani fans get together to discuss the thread posed by Babar on behalf of India and no Indian fans care.

    Guys, stop pretending that Babar is Pakistani equivalent of Kohli, LMAO!
    Fakhar Zaman and Shoaib Malik are bigger threats for India in my opinion.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by BDfanforever View Post
    He averages 38 with SR 82 against top teams: Eng, India, Aus, NZ, SA. His averages is hugely boosted by playing against weak and minnow level teams.
    38/82 isn't that bad a stats, considering his age and a horror last series in NZ - take out those 5 innings, I am sure it was in 40+/85+ range. If you do the same for MoHa, Malik or Sarfraz, you might be more surprised. Then, check the same for Kohli, AB, Smith on same criteria vs RSharma, Dhawan, Rahane; Warner, Finch, SMarsh; Amla, Cok, Faf ..... I am sure Babar won't look that bad.

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    38/82 isn't that bad a stats, considering his age and a horror last series in NZ - take out those 5 innings, I am sure it was in 40+/85+ range. If you do the same for MoHa, Malik or Sarfraz, you might be more surprised. Then, check the same for Kohli, AB, Smith on same criteria vs RSharma, Dhawan, Rahane; Warner, Finch, SMarsh; Amla, Cok, Faf ..... I am sure Babar won't look that bad.
    Off topic but do you believe Umar Akmal was just as talented as Babar Azam or even more?

    We all know he's finished most likely but would like to know your thoughts on Umar compared to Babar.


    And I get so high.. And I just can't feel it....

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Bassim View Post
    Off topic but do you believe Umar Akmal was just as talented as Babar Azam or even more?

    We all know he's finished most likely but would like to know your thoughts on Umar compared to Babar.
    He was DEFINITELY Better. But, that's just a small % of a batsman - he didn't posses the character to be a great batsn with 40+/80+ combined international stats. His first few Test & ODI innings had a 123 against rampant Bond on a greenish top, had couple of 49s in AUS on 1st tour and had a 104 of 80+ balls against Murali. And remarkably, that 123 is still his only Test 100, that 104 is only ODI 100 barring one against Afghans with 3-4 chances. In fact, his 2nd or 3rd FC innings was 256, made in less than 5 hours on what has to be a very poor PAK domestic wicket - it took almost half a decade for him to hit another one.

    I actually rate batsman (young batsman), mostly on their shot making ability - crispy timing, placement and free swing of bat to hit it sweetly; then technique improves with time, coaching, practice & experience; temperament improves with maturity, diversity and mentoring. He had 1st part in abundance, 2nd part almost blank - he didn't help himself and must have been guided by wrong people. Otherwise, since Inzi, he is probably the best back-foot player from PAK and he had every shots on book, on either feet, through either side. Oblate, the slog swinger UAkmal you see is totally different from the kid hitting 3 back to back boundaries of Bond, either side of point, on alternate foot, then pulling him in front of squire.

    Final nail was Misbah era, which wasn't supportive to stroke making, naturally aggressive players. It took Fakhar 3-4 extra years to get into PAK team, but he is lucky for that - I doubt had he debuted somewhere in between 2011-15, he won't have lasted more than 3 months; first they would have put him at 6-7 to win Larke Lenge style, then out of XI, then squad, it ends there for ever. Umar wasn't that good, but certainly wasn't that bad to miss out from that PAK line-up which was open for Farhat, YK, Asad, Fawad, Azhar, Malik ...... not to mention MoHa.

    50 years back, Asif & Mazid went to ENG as a medium pace all-rounder, their batting handed them a contract at Kent & Glamargoan; next tour Zaheer went in 1971 and landed at Gloster ...... Umar's misfortune was that by 2010, English Counties stopped nurturing PAK cricket, otherwise, that 123 (& 52) was good enough for him to land in some County team ..... 3-4 years under pro management, it could have been a totally different story. Unfortunately, kid landed on the laps of Basit Ali & Shahid afridi ....... and Captained by Misbah, instead of Intekhab or Mushtaq.

    Umar is finished - you asked for it, otherwise in last 12 months, I don't think I have written a single word for him.


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