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  1. #1
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    Will MS Dhoni and Kedar Jadhav cost India dearly at the 2019 World Cup?

    I love Kohli, as an individual, and as a player. But I really hate him as a captain.

    Why can't he throw Dhoni and Jadhav out. Pandya is much better hitter than Jadhav.

    We have already missed an opportunity to win the CT due to buddhas (Yuvi, Dhoni, Jadhav, Ashwin).

    Now it's going to be the same at the WC. At least at the CT we had to play 3 games and somehow managed to reach final.

    But in 2019 WC we should play 9 games to reach next level.

    Dhoni will score 32(55) and
    Jadhav 12(11)

    Two useless players at 5 and 6. Add to this Karthik and Ajinx.

    We have really good players in Rahul, Pant, Pandey.


    Heck, even Pakistan is handing caps left and right to the youngsters and giving them a long run.

    These are the players who debuted for Pakistan in Odis recently.

    Tour of west indies (May):

    Shadab

    CT:

    Rumman
    Fakhar
    Faheem

    Against SL:

    Usman
    Imam

    As far as I can remember 6 players in just 3 series, that too not just debuting, they are being given a long run.

    We are playing same 11 even against poor SL and WI. You know why, because we lost the CT final, and want to hide it by WINning meaningless bilaterals. If u don't give chances to youngsters in bilaterals then when will they get time to adjust.

    Poor poor poor.
    Ridiculous to say the least .

  2. #2
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    Jadhav is probably going through a bad run of form. I will wait before declaring he is useless. His sample set of LOI performance in domestics is insane. Even in international cricket, he started off great.

    Dhoni is just old. Let the rationalization hamster run non-stop.


    I am not one of you. I never was. I am not one of them either.

  3. #3
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    For someone which such good stats, I don't really recall any memorable performances by Jadhav. I mean he obviously has scored against some tough opponents. But nothing really sticks in my mind (though admittedly haven't seen as much of him as others, especially indian fans). Raina on the other hand (the guy I feel Jadhav has replaced), there's quite a few clutch knocks I can remember despite the poorer record (though obviously had more games).

    I don't think you can throw out Dhoni yet, there doesn't seem to be anyone to replace him. I mean I thought the whole reason of Karthik playing was to give him some games to see if he can be a potential replacement for Dhoni in the future. And even if Dhoni might not be the level he once was, he's still pretty good.

  4. #4
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    Jadhav will be given the boot sooner or later. Dhoni on the other hand can't be touched under any circumstances. He is a superstar in a country which values superstars over team performance, just hope that he doesn't deteriorate much between now and 2019 and at least can keep competently.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    Jadhav is probably going through a bad run of form. I will wait before declaring he is useless. His sample set of LOI performance in domestics is insane. Even in international cricket, he started off great.

    Dhoni is just old. Let the rationalization hamster run non-stop.
    That is where the problem is, you can't wait longer when WC is less than 18 months away.

    What if he keeps failing , will you bring a youngster in mid 2018.? That is not how it works.

    A youngster should get 2 years on the trot, at a specified position.

    1 year to accept is up and down performances ,and the next year for him to take some responsibility.

    With Jadhav if you wait for 6 more months, you have to take him to the WC.

  6. #6
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    Dhoni should go for his shots down the ground.

    Such a strong hitter not sure why he tuk tuks.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kohli, The King of Chase View Post
    That is where the problem is, you can't wait longer when WC is less than 18 months away.

    What if he keeps failing , will you bring a youngster in mid 2018.? That is not how it works.

    A youngster should get 2 years on the trot, at a specified position.

    1 year to accept is up and down performances ,and the next year for him to take some responsibility.

    With Jadhav if you wait for 6 more months, you have to take him to the WC.
    I am not asking to wait for 6 months.

    Just compile a pool of batsmen who have potential to blossom and rotate amongst them. It's ok if we lose with them but we are not doing it properly.

    In our team, there should be NO place for Rahane, Dhoni and Karthik. Yet these 3 are there blocking out important spots which prevents us from trying out others.

    Here are the potential bats for 2019 WC apart from top 3

    Lokesh Rahul
    Manish Pandey
    Kedar Jadhav
    Deepak Hooda
    Mayank Agarwal
    Suresh Raina
    Robin Uthappa

    There may be others too but I don't follow domestics and follow player developments.

    Same way for bowling you can't have Bhuvi, Bumrah and Pandya as the pace attack. Doesn't matter how many games you win, they are not a complete attack and likely to screw up in a crucial game. Need to bring in other pacers into the mix.

    For spinners, we have got the strategy right.

    Possibles: Kuldeep, Chahal, Axar, Ashwin and Jaddu
    Last edited by sensible-indian-fan; 22nd October 2017 at 16:21.


    I am not one of you. I never was. I am not one of them either.

  8. #8
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    Jadhav is good and he must bowl 5-6 overs regularly.Dhoni will not even make Jharkhand team on merit at this stage. India is playing with 1 player short with him in side

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    I am not asking to wait for 6 months.

    Just compile a pool of batsmen who have potential to blossom and rotate amongst them. It's ok if we lose with them but we are not doing it properly.

    In our team, there should be NO place for Rahane, Dhoni and Karthik. Yet these 3 are there blocking out important spots which prevents us from trying out others.

    Here are the potential bats for 2019 WC apart from top 3

    Lokesh Rahul
    Manish Pandey
    Kedar Jadhav
    Deepak Hooda
    Mayank Agarwal
    Suresh Raina
    Robin Uthappa

    There may be others too but I don't follow domestics and follow player developments.

    Same way for bowling you can't have Bhuvi, Bumrah and Pandya as the pace attack. Doesn't matter how many games you win, they are not a complete attack and likely to screw up in a crucial game. Need to bring in other pacers into the mix.

    For spinners, we have got the strategy right.

    Possibles: Kuldeep, Chahal, Axar, Ashwin and Jaddu
    Compiling is not enough, you have to give them some game time.

    The thing which angers me the most is, why did we not play youngsters in the series against SL and WI. Okay, let's wait and watch what 11 they play against SL. If they play same buddhas, I don't wanna type what I wish...

  10. #10
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    Keep playing with them. They will win us games

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by lehen View Post
    Jadhav is good and he must bowl 5-6 overs regularly.Dhoni will not even make Jharkhand team on merit at this stage. India is playing with 1 player short with him in side
    You are misreading it.

    If Jadhav makes the team as a batsman alone then it's really good to get 5-6 overs from him. But here he's lacking in batting, so we are literally playing a half AR, who's good at neither batting nor bowling.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kohli, The King of Chase View Post
    I love Kohli, as an individual, and as a player. But I really hate him as a captain.

    Why can't he throw Dhoni and Jadhav out. Pandya is much better hitter than Jadhav.

    We have already missed an opportunity to win the CT due to buddhas (Yuvi, Dhoni, Jadhav, Ashwin).
    Half of the time he is looking to Dhoni for clues.. in game like today you have to go for wickets and foget about runs when you have two set batsmen.. there was a chance where kuldeep bowled excellent bowl and had taylor nick but there was no slip there to grab the chance.. he will learn he has a long way to go..
    Dhoni's times up as you said and he needs to move on as well..

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kohli, The King of Chase View Post
    Compiling is not enough, you have to give them some game time.

    The thing which angers me the most is, why did we not play youngsters in the series against SL and WI. Okay, let's wait and watch what 11 they play against SL. If they play same buddhas, I don't wanna type what I wish...
    They didn't play cos compiling wasn't done properly.

    When the wrong candidates are not booted out, the right ones have fewer spots to play.

    If we don't do step 1 properly, why do you expect step 2 to work?


    I am not one of you. I never was. I am not one of them either.

  14. #14
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    Karthik is must for WC 19 warm up matches in England 😂😂😂

  15. #15
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    These two are not the problem. What India are missing is a #4 batsman and a bowling attack that can delivery under pressure. 280 was a defendable against the Kiwis but one good partnership and the bowling fell apart.

    Kohli is great but he can't do it alone. This will especially be the case in England, where Kohli will find it quite tough. India need someone to share some of that run-scoring burden at #4. Dhoni and Pandya are good enough finishers and will compliment each other well.

    1) Rohit/Rahul
    2) Dhawan
    3) Kohli
    4) ? (Like I said, India would love their very own Babar Azam right now)
    5) Dhoni
    6) Pandya
    7) Jadeja

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    They didn't play cos compiling wasn't done properly.

    When the wrong candidates are not booted out, the right ones have fewer spots to play.

    If we don't do step 1 properly, why do you expect step 2 to work?
    That's what my point is. Throw Dhoni, Jadhav and Karthik out.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kohli, The King of Chase View Post
    That's what my point is. Throw Dhoni, Rahane and Karthik out.
    Agreed.


    I am not one of you. I never was. I am not one of them either.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    These two are not the problem. What India are missing is a #4 batsman and a bowling attack that can delivery under pressure. 280 was a defendable against the Kiwis but one good partnership and the bowling fell apart.

    Kohli is great but he can't do it alone. This will especially be the case in England, where Kohli will find it quite tough. India need someone to share some of that run-scoring burden at #4. Dhoni and Pandya are good enough finishers and will compliment each other well.

    1) Rohit/Rahul
    2) Dhawan
    3) Kohli
    4) ? (Like I said, India would love their very own Babar Azam right now)
    5) Dhoni
    6) Pandya
    7) Jadeja
    Everything you said is opposite, Kohli has been struggling, on such a pitch he should have 140+ strike Rate,he clearly struggled throughout the year 2017 and still going on, No attack can defend 280 here but for some foolish batting .
    Dhoni is not good enough for List A cricket in any Domestic Indian team now, forget the Indian team, all in all Sitting here in India we get a clearer picture of our team than across the border whch is true for Indians commenting on Pak team as well.Not your fault.It is only the fielding and bowling that have us winning so many Odis,without it we will lose 90% of our games if similar passengers in the batting line up are carried forward every series

  19. #19
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    MSD must have the grace to quit before he does more damage. But he won't.

    Jadhav's continued presence in the team after his CT perfromance is quite baffling, to be honest. Some one big must be backing him.

    We need a wicket keeper to replace MSD. I think Naman Ojha could be a good choice.

    Mayank Agarwal, Deepak Hooda or Shreyas Iyer can replace Jadhav.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by lehen View Post
    Everything you said is opposite, Kohli has been struggling, on such a pitch he should have 140+ strike Rate,he clearly struggled throughout the year 2017 and still going on, No attack can defend 280 here but for some foolish batting .
    Dhoni is not good enough for List A cricket in any Domestic Indian team now, forget the Indian team, all in all Sitting here in India we get a clearer picture of our team than across the border whch is true for Indians commenting on Pak team as well.Not your fault.It is only the fielding and bowling that have us winning so many Odis,without it we will lose 90% of our games if similar passengers in the batting line up are carried forward every series
    Pakistan would have defended 280 today on the same ground. India lack bowlers who can take wickets in the middle overs.

    Bumrah and Bhuvi may be decent at the death but taking wickets earlier on is more important as it defines the game

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by babajee View Post
    pakistan would have defended 280 today on the same ground. India lack bowlers who can take wickets in the middle overs.

    Bumrah and bhuvi may be decent at the death but taking wickets earlier on is more important as it defines the game
    no

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by lehen View Post
    Everything you said is opposite, Kohli has been struggling, on such a pitch he should have 140+ strike Rate,he clearly struggled throughout the year 2017 and still going on, No attack can defend 280 here but for some foolish batting .
    Dhoni is not good enough for List A cricket in any Domestic Indian team now, forget the Indian team, all in all Sitting here in India we get a clearer picture of our team than across the border whch is true for Indians commenting on Pak team as well.Not your fault.It is only the fielding and bowling that have us winning so many Odis,without it we will lose 90% of our games if similar passengers in the batting line up are carried forward every series
    You're right in saying that you know more about your team than I do. However, you can't really blame the guy who scored 125 out of the team's 280 runs. Did that at a SR above 90 as well.

    Never thought I would have to defend Kohli, but it is unfair to blame him today. He played a superb innings but did not receive support from anywhere else.

  23. #23
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    Jhadav, Karthik and Dhoni: 74 runs from 114 balls. Lost us the game.

  24. #24
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    Kohli is a one man show in the batting department. Need to get Manish Pandey and KL Rahul in this team.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    You're right in saying that you know more about your team than I do. However, you can't really blame the guy who scored 125 out of the team's 280 runs. Did that at a SR above 90 as well.

    Never thought I would have to defend Kohli, but it is unfair to blame him today. He played a superb innings but did not receive support from anywhere else.
    Anything under a strike rate of atleast 125 is not acceptable in Wankhede track.I have said it before and I will say it again, Kohli 2017 is not the Kohli we had till 2014

  26. #26
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    I saw so many fans here hyping up Pant to be the replacement of Dhoni. Where is he now? Fact is not even Karthik can replace Dhoni currently. As far as Jadhav is concerned he is a hack. I would rather invest in Pandey than him.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by gani999 View Post
    MSD must have the grace to quit before he does more damage. But he won't.

    Jadhav's continued presence in the team after his CT perfromance is quite baffling, to be honest. Some one big must be backing him.

    We need a wicket keeper to replace MSD. I think Naman Ojha could be a good choice.

    Mayank Agarwal, Deepak Hooda or Shreyas Iyer can replace Jadhav.
    Based on what I've seen in IPL, Naman Ojha and Deepak Hooda are NOWHERE near good enough to play in this team. IIRC, Hooda only played a couple of good knocks in the first few games of his first season. Ojha also might have played a few knocks here and there, but I remember his contribution being minimal over the course of an entire IPL season.


    Hum na hon hamare baad, Sarfraz Sarfraz

  28. #28
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    Well you did try the likes of Manish Pandey and they didn't quite work out. Perhaps these guys are the best you have for now?

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    Well you did try the likes of Manish Pandey and they didn't quite work out. Perhaps these guys are the best you have for now?
    We have Raina 2.0 who's working on his fitness at the moment, Sanju Samson, Rahul Tripathi, Rishab Pant, Shreyas Iyer, Nitish Rana, Prithvi Sha, Krunal Pandya. They just need consistent chances like Rohit and Dhawan got. But our selectors can't think beyond the likes of deadweights Karthik and Jadhav.

  30. #30
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    Selectors have been unfair to Raina when they dropped him. Saying this for a long while.

  31. #31
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    India needs to invest in a wk now. Not next year.

    MSD, jadhav and karthik are blocking youngsters.

    What did we not try Pant? Pant may not be performing now. But he is young and talented and management should have backed him instead of a 37 yr old has been tuk tuk master. I would even try Samson.

    Jadhav, the less said the better. He may have good arts in domestics. But he will never succeed at international level. He is a total hack. All he did so far in the 30 odd innings he played is score a century against England. He is a nothing player.

    Karthik imo, is better than MSD at this point. I would even have Parthiv ahead of MSD. Parthiv at least scores fast and on his day can destroy attacks. He is good enough to score quick fire 30's and 40's the which is what is is needed from your no5 or 6.

    This Indian team is an average team. The top3's exploits have hidden the hollowness of the middle order. Right through the CT, Rohit/Dhawan/Kohli have been scoring blazing centuries and that has hidden the mediocrity of UV, MSD and Jadhav. Once the top order failed against Pak, MSD and jadhav were exploded badly. If not for Pandya, India would have been bundled for under 100.

    Indian selectors are cowards. They are always allergic to giving chances to youngsters. When the youngster is in good form, he should be tried. But they wait until the youngster becomes out of form and then make him rot in domestics for ever.

    Indian team is Top 3 batsman or bust. Our bowling failed today. But more often than not, they will defend this 280.

    Credit to kiwis for plying Kuldeep and Chahal well.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by gani999 View Post
    MSD must have the grace to quit before he does more damage. But he won't.

    Jadhav's continued presence in the team after his CT perfromance is quite baffling, to be honest. Some one big must be backing him.

    We need a wicket keeper to replace MSD. I think Naman Ojha could be a good choice.

    Mayank Agarwal, Deepak Hooda or Shreyas Iyer can replace Jadhav.
    Wriddhiman saha is the best keeper in India
    Right now the IPL kids you taking about can't handle pressure of chasing 125 in IPL
    matches

  33. #33
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    We needed pace today, just like CT final, is Dhoni influencing Kohli's decision of playing trundlers in the ODI team as well or is that strongman coach's idea? Shami & Yadav were our best bowlers in the WC, I bet they will outperform Bumrah & Kumar in a must win game, consistently on a flat track!

    Their record also suggests that they are wicket takers, netter at it than Kumar & Bumrah, not sure what is with this fad of safe first approach so far as pacers are concerned.
    Last edited by R0H1T; 22nd October 2017 at 19:11.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by babajee View Post
    Pakistan would have defended 280 today on the same ground. India lack bowlers who can take wickets in the middle overs.

    Bumrah and Bhuvi may be decent at the death but taking wickets earlier on is more important as it defines the game
    Mumbai is a patta track and is known as a chasing ground, at max u would have delayed the inevitable by couple of deliveries, the pitch settles down later in the innings and with dew in the evening good luck defending total.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by R0H1T View Post
    We needed pace today, just like CT final, is Dhoni influencing Kohli's decision of playing trundlers in the ODI team as well or is that strongman coach's idea? Shami & Yadav were our best bowlers in the WC, I bet they will outperform Bumrah & Kumar in a must win game, consistently on a flat track!

    Their record also suggests that they are wicket takers, netter at it than Kumar & Bumrah, not sure what is with this fad of safe first approach so far as pacers are concerned.
    Stop blaming Dhoni for mistakes Kohli is committing. Kohli himself isn't an attacking captain like people perceive him to be. He played Yadav and Shami in one game against Australia and as soon as India lost the game he went back to Bhuvi and Bumrah. He does not like to take risk and wants to keep playing the same team. The reason why India hasn't experimented much in ODI's over the past year. Dhoni is not influencing anything.

  36. #36
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    Yadhav is useless.His spin will be useless in england.Has no footwork,just stands and hacks.Against swing helpless.If we lose 2 quick wickets we can't have this guy.

    We need for 4 and 5
    Any 2 amongst - Manish pandey ,KL rahul,Rahane,Kartik.We need to try shreyas iyer too.
    KL rahul needs to be played.
    Kohli and shahtri misusing him.

    I don't think we can win WC with this fragile batting line up.If our top order doesn't fire in any knockout match we are done for.

  37. #37
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    throw dhoni out of team
    rest of the things will fall in line

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by giri26 View Post
    Stop blaming Dhoni for mistakes Kohli is committing. Kohli himself isn't an attacking captain like people perceive him to be. He played Yadav and Shami in one game against Australia and as soon as India lost the game he went back to Bhuvi and Bumrah. He does not like to take risk and wants to keep playing the same team. The reason why India hasn't experimented much in ODI's over the past year. Dhoni is not influencing anything.
    Yeah is that why he seems to ask the former captain any & all sorts of advice, almost incessantly?

    Definitely but there;s no logic in having your quickest & most penetrative bowlers warming the bench when we all saw what happened in the CT final, at least Kumar can handle some amount of pressure, Bumrah just gets cold feet & neither of them are quick! I remember Yadav doing an A tour of Aus when India were getting battered on the tour of Eng, gee I wonder who's brilliant idea was it to not pick him for the tour, even when Ishant got injured after the 2nd test
    Last edited by R0H1T; 23rd October 2017 at 05:01.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by R0H1T View Post
    Yeah is that why he seems to ask the former captain any & all sorts of advice, almost incessantly?

    Definitely but there;s no logic in having your quickest & most penetrative bowlers warming the bench when we all saw what happened in the CT final, at least Kumar can handle some amount of pressure, Bumrah just gets cold feet & neither of them are quick! I remember Yadav doing an A tour of Aus when India were getting battered on the tour of Eng, gee I wonder who's brilliant idea was it to not pick him for the tour, even when Ishant got injured after the 2nd test
    So you are saying that Dhoni is influencing Shastri, Kohli and the entire selection committee to not pick Shami and Yadav. Is Dhoni behind horrible and poor batting selections as well? Kohli should not captain the team if he cannot make decisions on the field. Every young captain will go to senior players for advice when things get tough. Even Dhoni would have done the same when he was playing with the greats in the team. Just because Kohli asks for advice does not mean that he even takes Dhoni's help to pick the team. Stop finding excuses for poor decisions taken by selectors and Captain. Dropping Rahul, not playing Pandey, selecting Karthik, dropping Yadav and Shami, all are decision taken by captain/Coach and selection committee. Dhoni has no hand in any of this selections.

    The decision you are talking about came when Dhoni was captain of the test team. Dhoni no longer is the captain of the test team. Virat himself likes the idea of Bumrah and Bhuvi along with Pandya in the X1. No one is to be blamed here. Why is Virat not taking Dhoni's suggestions while picking the spinners? Is it because Dhoni selectively only advises about fast bowlers?
    Last edited by giri26; 23rd October 2017 at 05:37.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by austerlitz View Post
    I don't think we can win WC with this fragile batting line up.If our top order doesn't fire in any knockout match we are done for.
    Precisely why I am not buying into the "we are doing so well in ODIs" hype.

    There are many structural problems that we really can't expect to win any tourney with this team. What's heartbreaking is that it could be SO MUCH better if we boot out the dead weights and try out guys who can succeed.

    Saying it from early 2015.

    Our ODI strategy flat out is pathetic.

    Not bad...just pathetic.


    I am not one of you. I never was. I am not one of them either.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by ego-gambit View Post
    Wriddhiman saha is the best keeper in India
    Right now the IPL kids you taking about can't handle pressure of chasing 125 in IPL
    matches
    Right now, our so-called stalwarts like MSD, Yuvi and Jadhav aren't handling pressure at the international level either.

    I'd rather give the kids a chance and let them have a long run. They may fail for a few games, but will come good eventually. MSD and Jadhav ain't going to transform into match winners.
    Last edited by gani999; 23rd October 2017 at 10:45.

  42. #42
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    MSD is still the best wkt/bat in India and 2nd in the world (ODIs) after De Kock.

  43. #43
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    Been saying this for very long that we need to get rid off Jadhav and Dhoni for good. I dont know the obssession with Jadhav the hitter. Its a myth that he is attacking batsman, fact is he is just not good enough for International match. Been playing for more than a year and have been costing us games with pathetic batting and fielding.

    Instead of blooding youngsters selectors brought back useless TTF Karthik. Im so done with this pathetic Indian team.

    Time to switch sports and give up on this useless losers.

    #BringItOnNBA #TorontoRaptors

  44. #44
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    Wow one loss and the daggers are out against Kohli and Jadhav!!

    Kohli has the best winn loss ratio in both ODIs and tests in the history of Indian cricket. Better than the likes of Dhoni.

    With regards to Jadhav, he still averages above 40 in internationals and strike rates close to 110. What else do you want from someone. Give me more time. The guy did his hardwork for 8 years in domestics by maintaining strike rate of 105 and an average of 50. Give him time guys. Jadhav will be key to our Wcup 2019 win. Mark my words.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by rahulrulezz View Post
    Wow one loss and the daggers are out against Kohli and Jadhav!!

    Kohli has the best winn loss ratio in both ODIs and tests in the history of Indian cricket. Better than the likes of Dhoni.

    With regards to Jadhav, he still averages above 40 in internationals and strike rates close to 110. What else do you want from someone. Give me more time. The guy did his hardwork for 8 years in domestics by maintaining strike rate of 105 and an average of 50. Give him time guys. Jadhav will be key to our Wcup 2019 win. Mark my words.
    Jadhav will be key to costing us Worldcup.

    His stats are so inflated with that one fluke innings against England. Tell me what has he done except that innings to deserve so many chances? He is definition of mediocrity. Id rather have out of form Raina than this mediocre 'Hitter'

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    I am not asking to wait for 6 months.

    Just compile a pool of batsmen who have potential to blossom and rotate amongst them. It's ok if we lose with them but we are not doing it properly.

    In our team, there should be NO place for Rahane, Dhoni and Karthik. Yet these 3 are there blocking out important spots which prevents us from trying out others.

    Here are the potential bats for 2019 WC apart from top 3

    Lokesh Rahul
    Manish Pandey
    Kedar Jadhav
    Deepak Hooda
    Mayank Agarwal
    Suresh Raina
    Robin Uthappa

    There may be others too but I don't follow domestics and follow player developments.

    Same way for bowling you can't have Bhuvi, Bumrah and Pandya as the pace attack. Doesn't matter how many games you win, they are not a complete attack and likely to screw up in a crucial game. Need to bring in other pacers into the mix.

    For spinners, we have got the strategy right.

    Possibles: Kuldeep, Chahal, Axar, Ashwin and Jaddu
    i just dunno why india play Rehani despite having good alternatives.rehane is waste of space in a team like india.it may work for pakistan i will say fisr pick for pak.
    dhoni and kartik have no business in this team
    jhadav may be given 2 series to see.
    spin bowling is good.
    in pace attack india need some left arm pacer.buvi is not up there...i dont think bumrah and bhuvi are gonna work another left arm pacer has to come for the variety.if no lefte arner then at least right arm with good skills using new and old bal.

  47. #47
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    What's wrong with them yaar they not even that bad. Jhadav could be dropped but dhoni is class.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by troodon View Post
    India needs to invest in a wk now. Not next year.

    MSD, jadhav and karthik are blocking youngsters.

    What did we not try Pant? Pant may not be performing now. But he is young and talented and management should have backed him instead of a 37 yr old has been tuk tuk master. I would even try Samson.

    Jadhav, the less said the better. He may have good arts in domestics. But he will never succeed at international level. He is a total hack. All he did so far in the 30 odd innings he played is score a century against England. He is a nothing player.

    Karthik imo, is better than MSD at this point. I would even have Parthiv ahead of MSD. Parthiv at least scores fast and on his day can destroy attacks. He is good enough to score quick fire 30's and 40's the which is what is is needed from your no5 or 6.

    This Indian team is an average team. The top3's exploits have hidden the hollowness of the middle order. Right through the CT, Rohit/Dhawan/Kohli have been scoring blazing centuries and that has hidden the mediocrity of UV, MSD and Jadhav. Once the top order failed against Pak, MSD and jadhav were exploded badly. If not for Pandya, India would have been bundled for under 100.

    Indian selectors are cowards. They are always allergic to giving chances to youngsters. When the youngster is in good form, he should be tried. But they wait until the youngster becomes out of form and then make him rot in domestics for ever.

    Indian team is Top 3 batsman or bust. Our bowling failed today. But more often than not, they will defend this 280.

    Credit to kiwis for plying Kuldeep and Chahal well.
    i was thinking that indian selectors are fair and bold but to be honest inidan one day team selection has been awful for quite some etime,what the hell are they foing by giving chances to kartik,????

  49. #49
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    Kedar Jadhav has been dropped from T20 side and Shreyas has been selected for T20I against the Kiwis

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by ads101 View Post
    For someone which such good stats, I don't really recall any memorable performances by Jadhav. I mean he obviously has scored against some tough opponents. But nothing really sticks in my mind (though admittedly haven't seen as much of him as others, especially indian fans). Raina on the other hand (the guy I feel Jadhav has replaced), there's quite a few clutch knocks I can remember despite the poorer record (though obviously had more games).

    I don't think you can throw out Dhoni yet, there doesn't seem to be anyone to replace him. I mean I thought the whole reason of Karthik playing was to give him some games to see if he can be a potential replacement for Dhoni in the future. And even if Dhoni might not be the level he once was, he's still pretty good.
    He scored an enormous hundred in a lost position to win the match for India vs England.

    This is the problem though. The subjective recollection of random people cannot be the standard rather than statistical performance. There is literally nothing wrong with Jadhav's batting stats and that's not even going into the utility of his unique brand of bowling.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by R0H1T View Post
    Yeah is that why he seems to ask the former captain any & all sorts of advice, almost incessantly?

    Definitely but there;s no logic in having your quickest & most penetrative bowlers warming the bench when we all saw what happened in the CT final, at least Kumar can handle some amount of pressure, Bumrah just gets cold feet & neither of them are quick! I remember Yadav doing an A tour of Aus when India were getting battered on the tour of Eng, gee I wonder who's brilliant idea was it to not pick him for the tour, even when Ishant got injured after the 2nd test
    Agreed. Seriously don't understand why India aren't playing their fastest and best bowlers. Firstly, you guys wastes Varun Aaron who could have actually become a really good bowler if he'd been persisted with. Yes, I know pace isn't everything but he had a lot of it and bowled mercurial spells at times. Similarly, can't believe Bhuvi is playing over Yadav. For all the hype, he doesn't have the wickets or the economy to show for it.

    I would not drop Bumrah just yet though. He makes the team on merit and ability. He is one for the future. Why is he bowling slowly though? I remember him being considerably faster in the CT? He's operating in the mid-130s now whereas he was consistentlyaround the 140 mark and over it at times in the CT.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by rahulrulezz View Post
    Wow one loss and the daggers are out against Kohli and Jadhav!!

    Kohli has the best winn loss ratio in both ODIs and tests in the history of Indian cricket. Better than the likes of Dhoni.

    With regards to Jadhav, he still averages above 40 in internationals and strike rates close to 110. What else do you want from someone. Give me more time. The guy did his hardwork for 8 years in domestics by maintaining strike rate of 105 and an average of 50. Give him time guys. Jadhav will be key to our Wcup 2019 win. Mark my words.
    Honestly can't believe this attitude people in the subcontinent have. It's easy to support a winning team but the day you lose, the real world comes out.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExpressPacer View Post
    Agreed. Seriously don't understand why India aren't playing their fastest and best bowlers. Firstly, you guys wastes Varun Aaron who could have actually become a really good bowler if he'd been persisted with. Yes, I know pace isn't everything but he had a lot of it and bowled mercurial spells at times. Similarly, can't believe Bhuvi is playing over Yadav. For all the hype, he doesn't have the wickets or the economy to show for it.

    I would not drop Bumrah just yet though. He makes the team on merit and ability. He is one for the future. Why is he bowling slowly though? I remember him being considerably faster in the CT? He's operating in the mid-130s now whereas he was consistentlyaround the 140 mark and over it at times in the CT.
    Every team has a different mindset and is setup differently. India has a monstrous batting line-up (atleast their top three) and they back themselves to chase any target or to bat the opposition out of the game if they are batting first. This means unlike Pakistan they are not relying on their bowling to be a strike force. Instead they want their bowlers to do a specific job. That is to utilize scoreboard pressure to restrict opposition. Bowl wicket to wicket, not give any freebies and bowl to the set field.

    Now an express pacer is the exact opposite of what their team plan is. Express pacers will go for runs and on their day will be very, very expensive and this will make life harder for India's stronger suite which is batting. For this purpose Indian captains prefer spinners and wicket to wicket pacers as it provides them with more control.


    #Hum apko container deingaye dharnay ke liyay

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    Every team has a different mindset and is setup differently. India has a monstrous batting line-up (atleast their top three) and they back themselves to chase any target or to bat the opposition out of the game if they are batting first. This means unlike Pakistan they are not relying on their bowling to be a strike force. Instead they want their bowlers to do a specific job. That is to utilize scoreboard pressure to restrict opposition. Bowl wicket to wicket, not give any freebies and bowl to the set field.

    Now an express pacer is the exact opposite of what their team plan is. Express pacers will go for runs and on their day will be very, very expensive and this will make life harder for India's stronger suite which is batting. For this purpose Indian captains prefer spinners and wicket to wicket pacers as it provides them with more control.
    Yes, I suppose that makes sense but the thing is, their batting is very miss-hit and I'm talking exclusively about the top order. Rohit Sharma has become the Indian equivalent of Azhar Ali. He takes an eternity to get going, even if he does make up for it later and that has a lot of effect on the other batsmen.

    Dhawan, while very good when in form, goes out of form a little too often. He's been marvelous in tournaments and occasional bilateral games but loses form often.

    India is heavily and OVERLY relient on VK scoring. If he doesn't, they usually lose the plot.

  55. #55
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    Some good posts but we need to be back to topic. KEDAR is dropped

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    Precisely why I am not buying into the "we are doing so well in ODIs" hype.

    There are many structural problems that we really can't expect to win any tourney with this team. What's heartbreaking is that it could be SO MUCH better if we boot out the dead weights and try out guys who can succeed.

    Saying it from early 2015.

    Our ODI strategy flat out is pathetic.

    Not bad...just pathetic.
    India had such a strong and clutch lower middle order in Yuvraj, Raina, and Dhoni. Now, there's not a single batsman who's as good as these names.

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    We need rahul and pandey at 4 and 5.Yadav is useless ,his real mettle will be exposed in ODIs next year overseas.Our batting is too fragile with no middle order.Dhoni needs to stay as our only experienced lower order pro.You can't win wc without experience.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by austerlitz View Post
    We need rahul and pandey at 4 and 5.Yadav is useless ,his real mettle will be exposed in ODIs next year overseas.Our batting is too fragile with no middle order.Dhoni needs to stay as our only experienced lower order pro.You can't win wc without experience.
    I feel that Rahul at number 4 is not a good idea. He either needs to bat at number 3 or open. Pandey is good at number 5. India needs to get Shreyas Iyer into the mix and hopefully he can succeed. Jadhav will continue to be in the team until India find a good replacement but again we haven't played anyone different in the X1 in recent times.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by lehen View Post
    Some good posts but we need to be back to topic. KEDAR is dropped
    And the GOAT pacer, Sharma ji, from SA is back in the test squad against SL

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Odd_One View Post
    India had such a strong and clutch lower middle order in Yuvraj, Raina, and Dhoni. Now, there's not a single batsman who's as good as these names.
    I can't help but feel we have become like SA.

    Superhumans otherwise and chokers when it comes to important games.

    World T20 2014 choke.
    World WC 2015 - no hope.
    World T20 2016 - awful batting strategy (and Laxman was praising Rahane...these analysts are garbage man)
    CT 2017 - lol

    CSK used to be a clutch team and then became a similar one to what India is now. Will win games but you just know they have issues and won't go the distance.


    I am not one of you. I never was. I am not one of them either.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    I can't help but feel we have become like SA.

    Superhumans otherwise and chokers when it comes to important games.

    World T20 2014 choke.
    World WC 2015 - no hope.
    World T20 2016 - awful batting strategy (and Laxman was praising Rahane...these analysts are garbage man)
    CT 2017 - lol

    CSK used to be a clutch team and then became a similar one to what India is now. Will win games but you just know they have issues and won't go the distance.
    I agree with you players in these teams depend too much on top order not able to built partnerships also our bowling can't
    Take wickets except bowling some dots
    In crucial stages
    World t20 2014 yuvraj lost us that game
    World cup 2015 bowlers lost us that
    World t20 2016 dew cost us that game
    Don't take commentators seriously
    They behaving like cheerleaders
    Now days

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    Dhoni should only be dropped if the replacement will offer more than Dhoni is now. Pant is mentioned but he doesn't seem to be scoring enough runs. Not sure who else is in contention.

    India surely have better players than Jahdav. Don't think at 32 years of age he will be better than he was in his initial start to international cricket. Also doubt he will get back to that form. So if I was an Indian selector, I would move on.
    Last edited by Hasan123; 25th October 2017 at 19:25.

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    India’s top 3 look good and barring any injuries will be the top 3 for next years WC. The bottom 4 in Kumar, Kuldeep, Bumrah and Chahal look good too (with Ashwin, Jadeja, and Shami as backup) but positions 4-7 (Rahane, Kedar, Dhoni and Pandya) isn’t a World Cup winning middle order imo. The team desperately need a couple of young, hard hitting and dynamic players in the middle/lower order.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabbar Singh View Post
    India’s top 3 look good and barring any injuries will be the top 3 for next years WC. The bottom 4 in Kumar, Kuldeep, Bumrah and Chahal look good too (with Ashwin, Jadeja, and Shami as backup) but positions 4-7 (Rahane, Kedar, Dhoni and Pandya) isn’t a World Cup winning middle order imo. The team desperately need a couple of young, hard hitting and dynamic players in the middle/lower order.
    Agree! But who the replacements? Rahul is very inconsistant, Manish Pandey is a mental midget, Pant is a leg side hack. Shreyas Iyer and Vijay shankar should be given more opportunities.
    Last edited by Tyler Durden; 8th February 2018 at 08:59.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by gani999 View Post
    MSD must have the grace to quit before he does more damage. But he won't.

    Jadhav's continued presence in the team after his CT perfromance is quite baffling, to be honest. Some one big must be backing him.
    We need a wicket keeper to replace MSD. I think Naman Ojha could be a good choice.

    Mayank Agarwal, Deepak Hooda or Shreyas Iyer can replace Jadhav.
    Called it long before, he is just a quota player from MUMBAI, nothing more... He can swing his bat in domestics and indian pitches... He is the worst of bits and pieces in the team.. Manish Pandey have seen is a good young batsman who will be the real deal to shadow Kohli as a no.4

    Dhoni unremovable and probably will retire after 2019 CWC

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    That middle order might cost them a WC, on paper Aus and England are a lot stronger.

    And on their day, if they click, I'd say Pakistan are a big threat too.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  67. #67
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    Rahane, I am sure will perform, yesterday was an off day. But if the pitch is spinning, he will be useless.

    MSD is a skeleton of his former self as far as batting is concerned, but as a keeper and captain-II he is valuable. He has enough time to get his bearings right before the world cup. He should try to get back his hitting form during this IPL.

    Jadhav is in the team mainly because h can bowl part timer overs. Manish Pandey and Rahul cannot. India needs some back up bowlers coz Pandya isnt a good 5th bowler and one of the other bowlers is bound to have off days.

    Indian team is almost settled, just need to let the guys play more games and get into some form.

    Of course if you have better talent sittingat home in India, like maybe a Raina or better(??), then Jadhav can be replaced.
    Last edited by Oligochaetes; 8th February 2018 at 09:57.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    That middle order might cost them a WC, on paper Aus and England are a lot stronger.

    And on their day, if they click, I'd say Pakistan are a big threat too.
    With the WC in ENG the PAK team will always be in the picture.

  69. #69
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    India's bowling is looking really strong. There top order is really strong. Only issue is the lower middle order. Rahane and Jahdav have to be replaced. Dhoni is still a brilliant keeper and I don't think he will be dropped before WC so he'll stay.

    If India can find replacements for Jahdav and Rahane I think they will be in contention to win the WC . Still early to call a winner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pakistani pride View Post
    With the WC in ENG the PAK team will always be in the picture.
    Hopefully, they can put together a good team and with the support they get, go far in the tournament. I can remember the crazy pitch invasions in the last WC in England.

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    Only Jadhav is an issue. His bowling will be smashed by a non-minnow team.Just bring Pandey or Rahul in and we should be okay.

  72. #72
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    India surely have better players than Jadhav. Don't think at 32 years of age he will be better than he was in his initial start to international cricket. Also doubt he will get back to that form. So if I was an Indian selector, I would move on.
    Last edited by Abdullah719; 9th February 2018 at 12:18.

  73. #73
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    Dhoni Pandya & Jadhav. I feel India's top order (top 3) is only our strong point. Rahane might play one odd good innings but he will disappoint you alot in whole series.

  74. #74
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    Dhoni should bat at no.8 or 9. His keeping is still good. Only reason he is still surviving. He is not even 10% of the real Dhoni we saw few years back.

  75. #75
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    Need to get rid of kedar ASAP.Play Iyer in his place please.Dhoni has no real replacement.Pant is a hack and samson an opener.Both are inexperienced as lower order batsmen and suspect wicketkeeper against 2 wrist spinners(big chance of misreading wrong uns and stumping)

  76. #76
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    Dhoni cannot even slog anymore. His fans are clutching on his keeping skills as though that will save India when he is on crease.

  77. #77
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    Since WC is in England I am okay with Rahane in the team. He struggle is when the ball turns. He usually comes into bat when spinners are on.

    To me, below should be the batting line up in WC 2019.

    Dhawan
    Rohit
    Kohli
    KL Rahul/Rahane/ (Youngster)
    Raina
    Pandya
    BK
    MSD
    Kuldeep
    Chahal
    Bumrah

    Regarding the youngster slot, I am not sold on Iyer. He seems like a hack to me and tries too hard. Pandey is a mental midget. Seen enough of him. Don't know who else is good.

  78. #78
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    will definitely cost India crucial games if Kohli does not fire.

  79. #79
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    I don't think jadhav will survive in the team till 2019 worldcup,specialist batsmans like iyer,pandey etc will eventually replace him. it is just a matter of time.

    For dhoni Indian selectors never gave opportunities to other wicketkeeper batsmans even as specialist batsman to play along dhoni. I think Selectors,kohli & shastri already accepted dhoni as wk for 2019 worldcup.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kohli, The King of Chase View Post
    I love Kohli, as an individual, and as a player. But I really hate him as a captain.

    Why can't he throw Dhoni and Jadhav out. Pandya is much better hitter than Jadhav.

    We have already missed an opportunity to win the CT due to buddhas (Yuvi, Dhoni, Jadhav, Ashwin).

    Now it's going to be the same at the WC. At least at the CT we had to play 3 games and somehow managed to reach final.

    But in 2019 WC we should play 9 games to reach next level.

    Dhoni will score 32(55) and
    Jadhav 12(11)

    Two useless players at 5 and 6. Add to this Karthik and Ajinx.

    We have really good players in Rahul, Pant, Pandey.


    Heck, even Pakistan is handing caps left and right to the youngsters and giving them a long run.

    These are the players who debuted for Pakistan in Odis recently.

    Tour of west indies (May):

    Shadab

    CT:

    Rumman
    Fakhar
    Faheem

    Against SL:

    Usman
    Imam

    As far as I can remember 6 players in just 3 series, that too not just debuting, they are being given a long run.

    We are playing same 11 even against poor SL and WI. You know why, because we lost the CT final, and want to hide it by WINning meaningless bilaterals. If u don't give chances to youngsters in bilaterals then when will they get time to adjust.

    Poor poor poor.
    Ridiculous to say the least .
    I think Virat is a very average captain. But with Dhoni his hands are tied. Current Dhoni, the Batsman, is a poor shadow of himself. It doesnt help Dhoni's cause that he has set extremely high bar for himself. But the Dhoni, the wicketkeeper, is probably the best in the world not just in India. I cannot think of any other wicketkeeper who is so safe and secure behind the wicket. his wicketkeeping skills are better than all first choice keepers in every top team like De Kock, Butler, Wade/Paine, Sarfaraz, Mushi, Latham, Dickwell, etc. Indian wicketers will also have to keep for two excellent wrist spinners now. Dhoni is well past his batting superstar stage but he still the best wickekeeper around. India always prefers a specialist wicketkeepr with batting skills (who makes the team solely on his wicketkeeping skills) rather than an average wicketkeeper with great batting skills. That is the reason Saha still survives in test setup. Unless a very good wicketkeeper with excellent skills behind the stumps suddenly emerges from now to 2019 WC, Dhoni will stay and we have to make peace with it.

    Jadhav is really a clown.. Rahul needs to be there in his place.. That is plain stupid from VIrat


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