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  1. #81
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    Stats for Active fast bowlers for Asian teams:

    Mashrafe 194 Inn 250 Wkts 30.83 Avg 4.78 Econ
    N Perera 133 Inn 162 Wkts 30.41 Avg 5.82 Econ
    Rubel 91 Inn 116 Wkts 32.51 Avg 5.58 Econ
    Lakmal 79 Inn 105 Wkts 31.62 Avg 5.4 Econ
    Yadav 71 Inn 105 Wkts 32.60 Avg 5.97 Econ
    Junaid 70 Inn 104 Wkts 27.30 Avg 5.2 Econ
    Hasan Ali 36 Inn 73 Wkts 22.39 Avg 5.23 Econ
    Bhumrah 41 Inn 72 Wkts 21.77 Avg 4.54 Econ
    Mustafiz 34 inn 66 Wkts 19.78 Avg 4.66 Econ
    Mo Amir 46 Inn 58 Wkts 31.20 Avg 4.74 Econ

    I excluded Mathew cause he don't play anymore.


    Forgive when you are on top. Don't you want to be forgiven?

  2. #82
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    B Kumar 91 Inn 96 Wkts 38.26 Avg 4.96 Econ
    Shami 49 Inn 91 Wkts 25.37 Avg 5.48 Econ
    Last edited by BD-fan; 3rd October 2018 at 01:44.


    Forgive when you are on top. Don't you want to be forgiven?

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by BD-fan View Post
    Stats for Active fast bowlers for Asian teams:

    Mashrafe 194 Inn 250 Wkts 30.83 Avg 4.78 Econ
    N Perera 133 Inn 162 Wkts 30.41 Avg 5.82 Econ
    Rubel 91 Inn 116 Wkts 32.51 Avg 5.58 Econ
    Lakmal 79 Inn 105 Wkts 31.62 Avg 5.4 Econ
    Yadav 71 Inn 105 Wkts 32.60 Avg 5.97 Econ
    Junaid 70 Inn 104 Wkts 27.30 Avg 5.2 Econ
    Hasan Ali 36 Inn 73 Wkts 22.39 Avg 5.23 Econ
    Bhumrah 41 Inn 72 Wkts 21.77 Avg 4.54 Econ
    Mustafiz 34 inn 66 Wkts 19.78 Avg 4.66 Econ
    Mo Amir 46 Inn 58 Wkts 31.20 Avg 4.74 Econ

    I excluded Mathew cause he don't play anymore.
    Mashrafe and Junaid are underrated.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhaag Viru Bhaag View Post
    Mashrafe and Junaid are underrated.
    Our old Captains killed Mashrafe. Since he was the one and only thing we had, they bowled him until he could not bowl any more. The Board didn't protect him by restricting him on test format early on. 9 Rehab on both knees and legs operations. 9. Only He can do it. Even now as recent as Asia cup, fluid was taken out of his knees after a match. Shane Bold quit after 2. That is why he is the inspirational leader for our team. Without Tamim-Shakib we had no business competing with India. His speeches, his faith in putting everyone before him changes the playing field in our favor. Everyone playing under him gives 110%. 17+ years and running with braces on both knees. These don't show up in stats.
    Last edited by BD-fan; 3rd October 2018 at 02:12.


    Forgive when you are on top. Don't you want to be forgiven?

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by BD-fan View Post
    Our old Captains killed Mashrafe. Since he was the one and only thing we had, they bowled him until he could not bowl any more. The Board didn't protect him by restricting him on test format early on. 9 Rehab on both knees and legs operations. 9. Only He can do it. Even now as recent as Asia cup, fluid was taken out of his knees after a match. Shane Bold quit after 2. That is why he is the inspirational leader for our team. Without Tamim-Shakib we had no business competing with India. His speeches, his faith in putting everyone before him changes the playing field in our favor. Everyone playing under him gives 110%. 17+ years and running with braces on both knees. These don't show up in stats.
    Mashrafe has earned everyone's respect after this asia cup. If I remember correctly he and Irfan Pathan were room mates when they started playing cricket. He is still playing cricket where as Irfan is coaching Jammu & Kashmir boys these days.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhony View Post
    But Junaid can't hold the bat and is a mug in the field. Bhuvi is a package. Everybody saw his worth in the Asia cup final. He can keep it tight in the powerplays and at death and can pickup a wicket or two. He can field well and can bat a bit. There is NO better death bowler in India than BK except for Bumrah. As long as that's the case, Bhuvi will keep his place.
    This would work if Kumar was not one of the frontline bowlers. Play Kumar above Pandya if he's such a utility man but if India have a 40 averaging bowler as one of their spearheads, things will get ugly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nikhil_cric View Post
    Which is a good decision in my opinion. Aamir des not make the bowling attack n merit. Hasan actually bowled worse in Asia cup but he deserves a longer rope. Shaheen/Hasan/Junaid and Usman as back up is good enough currently.
    Amir should come back if he does well at the domestic level though, he's just too skilled. Deserved to get dropped however.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by BD-fan View Post
    Our old Captains killed Mashrafe. Since he was the one and only thing we had, they bowled him until he could not bowl any more. The Board didn't protect him by restricting him on test format early on. 9 Rehab on both knees and legs operations. 9. Only He can do it. Even now as recent as Asia cup, fluid was taken out of his knees after a match. Shane Bold quit after 2. That is why he is the inspirational leader for our team. Without Tamim-Shakib we had no business competing with India. His speeches, his faith in putting everyone before him changes the playing field in our favor. Everyone playing under him gives 110%. 17+ years and running with braces on both knees. These don't show up in stats.
    Mashrafe is to BD as to what IK was to Pak or Ganguly to India. A transformational leader that can rally the team. He earned everybody's respect long before Asia Cup. He's not petty as Mushfiqur and is respected by all opposition fans as well. The way he goes on with injuries is inspirational and is one of my favorite players in BD team along with Tamim

  8. #88
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    What is wrong with Bhuvi?

    Since injury from Eng tour Bhuvi has been hammered in ODIs, the bowler who knows how to bowl in death is getting hammered for boundries.
    Can India afford Bhuvi as an opening bowler in WC 2019? He is getting slaughtered by WI team.What will happen if he faces good batsmen in death?

  9. #89
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    Obviously not.

    But most fans are deluded about him.

  10. #90
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    He's a rubbish ODI bowler. Has been rubbish almost throughout his career with a few good performances here and there. You don't average close to 40 without a reason.

  11. #91
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    Bad ODI bowler since most wickets are patta these days


    The only disability in life is a bad attitude. -Scott Hamilton

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by AMSS View Post
    Bhuvneshwar is garbage. His high profile among Indian fans and ex cricketers alike is certainly a mystery.
    Fully agree with this guy.

  13. #93
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    People mock Nehra but his record is 157 wickets in 120 matches @31, economy 5.1, not a world beater but good enough support bowler in there is a wicket taker at other end.

  14. #94
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    I don't fault him for getting smashed on these 'century pitches'. Any medium pacer will get wrecked here but Kumar has never been a wicket-taker anywhere in the world. Hence, this thread.

    Bumrah, Shami and Khaleel are better bowlers and should make the World Cup squad ahead of Kumar. Since they usually play two specialist seamers, India should pick a talented fast bowler as the fourth pacer and let him gain some exposure, act as an X-factor instead of carrying the dead log that is Bhuvi.

  15. #95
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    He didn't play the test series against england and I guess played just one ODI. Why did he need to be rested for the first 2 ODIs against WI? Not that he should be a certainty to play either way, but this special treatment to him despite ordinary performances is quite weird.

  16. #96
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    He is potentially an excellent bowler- he bowls at good pace and has one of the best seams in the game. He is, however mentally shaky and hence the bad performances at times.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by happydavy View Post
    He didn't play the test series against england and I guess played just one ODI. Why did he need to be rested for the first 2 ODIs against WI? Not that he should be a certainty to play either way, but this special treatment to him despite ordinary performances is quite weird.
    He is useless in ODIs, I think he gets rest for tests. Can't take 5 wickets in ODIs to save his life

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by BreadPakoda View Post
    He's a rubbish ODI bowler. Has been rubbish almost throughout his career with a few good performances here and there. You don't average close to 40 without a reason.
    He won't get selected in Bangladesh team. Rubel, Mashrafe, Mustafizur are all better than him. He is on par with out of form Taskin at best.

  19. #99
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    A bowling average way worse than even the dropped Amir in ODIs, Shami sits out for this guy?

  20. #100
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    Shami should play ahead of him. I like Bhuvi but he has issues in ODIs.

  21. #101
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    Bhuvi's calm mind and experience coming handy again. Don't go by the figures.

  22. #102
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    His bubble is going to get busted soon. He is being selected automatically in the team and is being percieved as a great death bowler for no real reason. Average stats, don't recall him winning us any match in recent past yet seems to be automatic selection. Matter of time before some questions his skills in media and that's when all the stats will get laid out in public.

  23. #103
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    A very cool and calm 4-0-39-0.

  24. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by BreadPakoda View Post
    A very cool and calm 4-0-39-0.
    Lol, then why in the world am I seeing people saying that he bowled well?

  25. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by happydavy View Post
    His bubble is going to get busted soon. He is being selected automatically in the team and is being percieved as a great death bowler for no real reason. Average stats, don't recall him winning us any match in recent past yet seems to be automatic selection. Matter of time before some questions his skills in media and that's when all the stats will get laid out in public.
    Manjrekar, Zaheer have been vocal about his performance in this series. They doubt he's carrying an injury and is hiding it to avoid being dropped. He usually bowls better than this

  26. #106
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    Worst strike bowler in world cricket history

  27. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhony View Post
    Manjrekar, Zaheer have been vocal about his performance in this series. They doubt he's carrying an injury and is hiding it to avoid being dropped. He usually bowls better than this
    Not sure how much better he can bowl, when his ODi bowling average is almost 40 per wicket and in t20s it's 25. It happens in Indian cricket that at times some people slip under the radar before their stats start getting noticed. It's the same with him, only a matter of time before he gets dropped. And I doubt once dropped he would be able to make a comeback easily as he hardly plays first class.

  28. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by happydavy View Post
    Not sure how much better he can bowl, when his ODi bowling average is almost 40 per wicket and in t20s it's 25. It happens in Indian cricket that at times some people slip under the radar before their stats start getting noticed. It's the same with him, only a matter of time before he gets dropped. And I doubt once dropped he would be able to make a comeback easily as he hardly plays first class.
    He usually picks a wicket upfront and has a decent ER in the death overs. That's his role. He was decent in Asia cup. Picked up MOM against Pak, scored handy runs in the final. But his performances against WI have been abysmal. With the lefty performing well, Bhuvi got exposed.

  29. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Srtfan View Post
    Worst strike bowler in world cricket history
    Also the most overrated. I haven't seen such a bad LOI bowler outside of a minnow team in a long time. Calling him useless is flattering.

  30. #110
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    Anyone remember Praveen Kumar of IND sometimes back? Bhuvi is that type of bowler sorry to say.

  31. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by BDfanforever View Post
    Anyone remember Praveen Kumar of IND sometimes back? Bhuvi is that type of bowler sorry to say.
    Bhuvi is at least 10 kph quicker than Praveen so not sure about the comparison.

  32. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Srtfan View Post
    Worst strike bowler in world cricket history
    He is not the strike bowler. India's strike bolwers are Bumrah, Kuldeep and Chahal.

    Bhuvi's role is to keep it tight in the first 10 and hopefully get a wicket. And then come back at the death and keep things tight. His role is very specific and usually he does it quite well but his form since getting injured in the IPL has been concerning.

    He's had a few good games too (people seem to have already forgotten that he got 2 for 12 off 4 overs in the 2nd T20 on a belter of a pitch). And he had 1 for 11 in the 5th ODI. He had a very good Asia Cup with both bat and ball.

    But at the same time, he's looked quite rusty in a few games as well. Hopefully more and more game time will help him get back into peak rhythm.

  33. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_outsider View Post
    He is not the strike bowler. India's strike bolwers are Bumrah, Kuldeep and Chahal.

    Bhuvi's role is to keep it tight in the first 10 and hopefully get a wicket. And then come back at the death and keep things tight. His role is very specific and usually he does it quite well but his form since getting injured in the IPL has been concerning.

    He's had a few good games too (people seem to have already forgotten that he got 2 for 12 off 4 overs in the 2nd T20 on a belter of a pitch). And he had 1 for 11 in the 5th ODI. He had a very good Asia Cup with both bat and ball.

    But at the same time, he's looked quite rusty in a few games as well. Hopefully more and more game time will help him get back into peak rhythm.
    Well said. He is required for the balance and for death bowling. Yes, he's been off a bit lately but people forget he was MOM not too long ago in Asia cup against Pak

  34. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by BDfanforever View Post
    Anyone remember Praveen Kumar of IND sometimes back? Bhuvi is that type of bowler sorry to say.
    Praveen Kumar was a meme. Indians seem to think Bhuvaneshwar is actually good in LOIs lol

  35. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_outsider View Post
    He is not the strike bowler. India's strike bolwers are Bumrah, Kuldeep and Chahal.

    Bhuvi's role is to keep it tight in the first 10 and hopefully get a wicket. And then come back at the death and keep things tight. His role is very specific and usually he does it quite well but his form since getting injured in the IPL has been concerning.

    He's had a few good games too (people seem to have already forgotten that he got 2 for 12 off 4 overs in the 2nd T20 on a belter of a pitch). And he had 1 for 11 in the 5th ODI. He had a very good Asia Cup with both bat and ball.

    But at the same time, he's looked quite rusty in a few games as well. Hopefully more and more game time will help him get back into peak rhythm.
    Please look at his record for this year. His average is 48, SR is 55 and his econ rate is 5.3. He doesn't have good stat in any of the metrics. His economy rate is the worst of the top 5 bowlers for India this year. Stop defending him with Economy rate as he has been hammered a lot this year. Asia cup game was an aberration in 2018. On the contrary Bumrah averages 16 with an economy rate of 3.62 this year. He is India's spear head not Bhuvneshwar. He is just playing because he can take couple of wickets once in 5-10 games.

  36. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by BDfanforever View Post
    Anyone remember Praveen Kumar of IND sometimes back? Bhuvi is that type of bowler sorry to say.
    Actually you are correct. Their averages are strikingly similar - 36/38 in ODIs and 24/25 in T20s. Though i though PK was better because no matter where we were playing, he would always get swing in the first 3-4 overs. But in those days Dhoni wanted bowlers who don't use too much of their brains but bowl according to his plans and field - Munaf, Nehra etc. What i am surprised is that with Kohli's over aggressive attitude, how does Bhuvi fits in the scheme of things.

  37. #117
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    kumar should be a regular in t20 and a pitch/condition based selection in tests.
    In ODIs, he should not be playing. Since pandya is not performing upto expected level, he is coming into the picture I guess.

  38. #118
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    Its a usual drill.

    Bhuvi comes to bowl in the 42/43rd over.

    Commentators blabber "solid death over bowler", "get ready for the knuckle ball, slower ball", "his experience will come handy", "experience of bowling in death overs" etc.

    Bhuvi will get blasted for anywhere between 10 RPO to 16 RPO. He will give his one obligatory 20+ runs over in 45/47/49th over

    Commentators blabber "Bhuvi has had a bad day", "off day", "didn't bowl the right lengths TODAY" as if its a rare occurrence

    Repeat cycle.
    Last edited by BreadPakoda; 13th November 2018 at 11:23.

  39. #119
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    For all his 'control', we should ALWAYS play Shami over him unless we are playing on green pitches when both of them should be in the 11 SHami playing regularly makes the bowling attack lot more stronger, albeit at the risk of a high economy rate which Shami compensates for through his much superior striking abilities.

    A bowler taking 2-3 wickets for even 60-70 runs in 10 overs is always better than a guy who goes at 50 for 1 or 45 for 0 wickets

    Shami has conceded 50+ runs in an innings in 23 ODIs, taking 44 wickets@32, ER of 6.85
    Bhuvi has conceded 50+ runs in an innings in 24 ODIs, taking 18 wickets@84, ER of 6.56

    Shami has conceded less than 50+ runs in an innings in 29 ODIs taking 50 wickets@20, ER of 4.36
    Bhuvi has conceded less than 50+ runs in an innings in 95 ODIs, taking 81 wickets@28, ER of 4.30

    Contrasts in their records could not be starker. There is absolutely nothing Bhuvi brings to the table for him to be playing ahead of Shami.

  40. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by BreadPakoda View Post
    Its a usual drill.

    Bhuvi comes to bowl in the 42/43rd over.

    Commentators blabber "solid death over bowler", "get ready for the knuckle ball, slower ball", "his experience will come handy", "experience of bowling in death overs" etc.

    Bhuvi will get blasted for anywhere between 10 RPO to 16 RPO. He will give his one obligatory 20+ runs over in 45/47/49th over

    Commentators blabber "Bhuvi has had a bad day", "off day", "didn't bowl the right lengths TODAY" as if its a rare occurrence

    Repeat cycle.
    I dunno how his fans defend his imaginary economy rate. When has he ever choked runs in ODIs except for 1 or 2 matches? I see him getting tonked every 3 matches out of 4 lol

  41. #121
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    Don't think Bhuvi is answer to our problems of containing batsmen on flat decks which will be seen aplenty during WC.

  42. #122
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    In history of ODI cricket he has worst stats against top sides. Avg of pathetic 60+ vs ENG,AUS,NZ & SA combined. This has to be worst bowler to ever play odi cricket. His fans are more pathetic and that's reason why india has never been force in bowling like it has been in Batting. If you keep this pathetic trundler in your side and keep saying on just one bad day in every match then how can you win big events? Few idiotic fans were saying he is twice better bowler than shami and few even compared with wasim on twitter. Idiotic fans and more idiotic captain kohli to persist with him.

  43. #123
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    Stats don't always tell the full story, which is evident in football aswell with players such as Eden Hazard or Gareth Bale. In cricket Bhuvneshwar Kumar is a Eden Hazard type of player.

    He sets up his teammates to allow them to get the wicket, this was evident in the Asia cup especially against Pakistan where he bowled very tight lines not allowing Fakhar Zaman or Imam to rotate the strike, in turn this built pressure on the other end for wicket taker Bumrah to clean up both Fakhar and Imam.

    As a matter of fact Pakistan could very much do with a bowler like Bhuvi to allow Hasan Ali or Amir to be the wicket taking bowlers. Faheem Ashraf could be a very good exponent of this if he is given the right coaching.

  44. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketindiafan View Post
    For all his 'control', we should ALWAYS play Shami over him unless we are playing on green pitches when both of them should be in the 11 SHami playing regularly makes the bowling attack lot more stronger, albeit at the risk of a high economy rate which Shami compensates for through his much superior striking abilities.

    A bowler taking 2-3 wickets for even 60-70 runs in 10 overs is always better than a guy who goes at 50 for 1 or 45 for 0 wickets

    Shami has conceded 50+ runs in an innings in 23 ODIs, taking 44 wickets@32, ER of 6.85
    Bhuvi has conceded 50+ runs in an innings in 24 ODIs, taking 18 wickets@84, ER of 6.56

    Shami has conceded less than 50+ runs in an innings in 29 ODIs taking 50 wickets@20, ER of 4.36
    Bhuvi has conceded less than 50+ runs in an innings in 95 ODIs, taking 81 wickets@28, ER of 4.30

    Contrasts in their records could not be starker. There is absolutely nothing Bhuvi brings to the table for him to be playing ahead of Shami.
    Boss bhuvi has played 94 innings so how come he played 95 odis conceding less than 50+ runs in inning at 28?

  45. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by iPakistani View Post
    Stats don't always tell the full story, which is evident in football aswell with players such as Eden Hazard or Gareth Bale. In cricket Bhuvneshwar Kumar is a Eden Hazard type of player.

    He sets up his teammates to allow them to get the wicket, this was evident in the Asia cup especially against Pakistan where he bowled very tight lines not allowing Fakhar Zaman or Imam to rotate the strike, in turn this built pressure on the other end for wicket taker Bumrah to clean up both Fakhar and Imam.

    As a matter of fact Pakistan could very much do with a bowler like Bhuvi to allow Hasan Ali or Amir to be the wicket taking bowlers. Faheem Ashraf could be a very good exponent of this if he is given the right coaching.
    Currently Pakistan has Shaheen, Hasan, Faheem, Shadab, now you tell me which of these bowlers has the ability to bowl 4-5 dot balls in an over and create pressure for the bowler at the other end? None of them do and if Pakistan can work on bowling partnerships instead of a star-studded bowling lineup it can benefit Pakistan cricket alot.

  46. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by iPakistani View Post
    Stats don't always tell the full story, which is evident in football aswell with players such as Eden Hazard or Gareth Bale. In cricket Bhuvneshwar Kumar is a Eden Hazard type of player.

    He sets up his teammates to allow them to get the wicket, this was evident in the Asia cup especially against Pakistan where he bowled very tight lines not allowing Fakhar Zaman or Imam to rotate the strike, in turn this built pressure on the other end for wicket taker Bumrah to clean up both Fakhar and Imam.

    As a matter of fact Pakistan could very much do with a bowler like Bhuvi to allow Hasan Ali or Amir to be the wicket taking bowlers. Faheem Ashraf could be a very good exponent of this if he is given the right coaching.
    Stats don't tell full story yeah but his stats also say avg of pathetic 60 against top sides. How can you be so pathetic in the world? and this is after bumrah or kuldeep/chahal putting pressure from other side so he can get wickets but still this pathetic? If you want him in your team then get him but stop praising this trundler for no real reason.

  47. #127
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    A bigger freeloader than the geriatric Dhoni.

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    Quote Originally Posted by giri26 View Post
    Please look at his record for this year. His average is 48, SR is 55 and his econ rate is 5.3. He doesn't have good stat in any of the metrics. His economy rate is the worst of the top 5 bowlers for India this year. Stop defending him with Economy rate as he has been hammered a lot this year. Asia cup game was an aberration in 2018. On the contrary Bumrah averages 16 with an economy rate of 3.62 this year. He is India's spear head not Bhuvneshwar. He is just playing because he can take couple of wickets once in 5-10 games.
    The very first sentence of my post says that Bhuvi is not India's strike bowler.

    Why bother quoting me if you didn't even read my post? Very weird.

  49. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam99 View Post
    Boss bhuvi has played 94 innings so how come he played 95 odis conceding less than 50+ runs in inning at 28?
    My bad should have read he's conceded less than 50 runs in 71 ODIs and not 95 ODIs.

  50. #130
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    It's very evident why Bhuvi is in the side - because he has all the tools that's necessary to do the role he has been given. He is there because he gives the team balance. And if some of the kids here payed a little more attention to the game, it would be very clear why he is in the team.

    Firstly, let's look at what the role demands:

    1. Pick a wicket up front
    2. Keep it tight at the death
    3. Be capable enough with the bat to finish tricky run chases

    Let's look at alternatives:

    Shami - ER of almost 12 in the death overs in the last 2 years. Picks up wickets but is expensive in the first 10 as well where he goes at 7+. Doesn't have a single variation. Doesn't bowl yorkers. A liability in the field and a tailender with the bat.

    Umesh - Overall quite expensive. Decent with the new ball and although he has a good yorker has also been quite expensive at the death. Has no variation i.e. slower balls, etc. An asset on the field but a tailender in ODIs.

    Khaleel - is growing very quickly as a bowler. Still has a lot of growing to do, obviously. If he wasn't yet another tailender, I reckon, come WC he might have leaped over Bhuvi for the 2nd seamer spot.

    If you pick Shami/Umesh/Khaleel in place of Bhuvi, batting ends at 7. Everyone after that is a tailender. And Bhuvi has batted enough for everyone to realise how important it is to have someone at no 8 who can bat.

    So if Bhuvi has to be dropped then, by default, Chahal has to be dropped because Jadeja has to come in his place as the no 8 batsman.

    So if you don't want Chahal in the side, drop Bhuvi and pick whomever you want. I don't really care.

    But I want Chahal in the side because I believe that a Bhuvi+Chahal bowling combo is far better than a Jadeja+Umesh/Shami bowling combo.

    I am concerned with his recent lack of form. But for now, he stay because team balance is the most important thing. And Bhuvi provides that balance.
    Last edited by Zeeraq; 13th November 2018 at 20:45.

  51. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_outsider View Post
    I am not protecting Bhuvi. I am quite concerned about his form.

    It's just that, I don't watch cricket like you do, with a bag of Cheetos in one hand and your cute little smartphone in the other.

    I watch the game with a little more intellectual capacity and to me it's very evident why Bhuvi is in the side - because he has all the tools that's necessary to do the role he has been given. He is there because he gives the team balance. And if some of the kids here payed a little more attention to the game, it would be very clear why he is in the team.

    Firstly, let's look at what the role demands:

    1. Pick a wicket up front
    2. Keep it tight at the death
    3. Be capable enough with the bat to finish tricky run chases

    Let's look at alternatives:

    Shami - ER of almost 12 in the death overs in the last 2 years. Picks up wickets but is expensive in the first 10 as well where he goes at 7+. Doesn't have a single variation. Doesn't bowl yorkers. A liability in the field and a tailender with the bat.

    Umesh - Overall quite expensive. Decent with the new ball and although he has a good yorker has also been quite expensive at the death. Has no variation i.e. slower balls, etc. An asset on the field but a tailender in ODIs.

    Khaleel - is growing very quickly as a bowler. Still has a lot of growing to do, obviously. If he wasn't yet another tailender, I reckon, come WC he might have leaped over Bhuvi for the 2nd seamer spot.

    If you pick Shami/Umesh/Khaleel in place of Bhuvi, batting ends at 7. Everyone after that is a tailender. And Bhuvi has batted enough for everyone to realise how important it is to have someone at no 8 who can bat.

    So if Bhuvi has to be dropped then, by default, Chahal has to be dropped because Jadeja has to come in his place as the no 8 batsman.

    So if you don't want Chahal in the side, drop Bhuvi and pick whomever you want. I don't really care.

    But I want Chahal in the side because I believe that a Bhuvi+Chahal bowling combo is far better than a Jadeja+Umesh/Shami bowling combo.

    I am concerned with his recent lack of form. But for now, he stay because team balance is the most important thing. And Bhuvi provides that balance.
    This, I agree with you for once. Like i said he is not the one we deserve, but the one we need right now.

  52. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_outsider View Post
    I am not protecting Bhuvi. I am quite concerned about his form.

    It's just that, I don't watch cricket like you do, with a bag of Cheetos in one hand and your cute little smartphone in the other.

    I watch the game with a little more intellectual capacity and to me it's very evident why Bhuvi is in the side - because he has all the tools that's necessary to do the role he has been given. He is there because he gives the team balance. And if some of the kids here payed a little more attention to the game, it would be very clear why he is in the team.

    Firstly, let's look at what the role demands:

    1. Pick a wicket up front
    2. Keep it tight at the death
    3. Be capable enough with the bat to finish tricky run chases

    Let's look at alternatives:

    Shami - ER of almost 12 in the death overs in the last 2 years. Picks up wickets but is expensive in the first 10 as well where he goes at 7+. Doesn't have a single variation. Doesn't bowl yorkers. A liability in the field and a tailender with the bat.

    Umesh - Overall quite expensive. Decent with the new ball and although he has a good yorker has also been quite expensive at the death. Has no variation i.e. slower balls, etc. An asset on the field but a tailender in ODIs.

    Khaleel - is growing very quickly as a bowler. Still has a lot of growing to do, obviously. If he wasn't yet another tailender, I reckon, come WC he might have leaped over Bhuvi for the 2nd seamer spot.

    If you pick Shami/Umesh/Khaleel in place of Bhuvi, batting ends at 7. Everyone after that is a tailender. And Bhuvi has batted enough for everyone to realise how important it is to have someone at no 8 who can bat.

    So if Bhuvi has to be dropped then, by default, Chahal has to be dropped because Jadeja has to come in his place as the no 8 batsman.

    So if you don't want Chahal in the side, drop Bhuvi and pick whomever you want. I don't really care.

    But I want Chahal in the side because I believe that a Bhuvi+Chahal bowling combo is far better than a Jadeja+Umesh/Shami bowling combo.

    I am concerned with his recent lack of form. But for now, he stay because team balance is the most important thing. And Bhuvi provides that balance.
    First tell me how many matches has shami played back to back since worldcup? Every bowler needs rhythm in any format. If you keep giving one match then rest and again same with any bowler then no one will come back to best. Play shami for 2 - 3 series and he will do twice better than bhuvi does in odis.

  53. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam99 View Post
    First tell me how many matches has shami played back to back since worldcup? Every bowler needs rhythm in any format. If you keep giving one match then rest and again same with any bowler then no one will come back to best. Play shami for 2 - 3 series and he will do twice better than bhuvi does in odis.
    Maybe. Most likely he won't because he simply doesn't have the tools (slower balls, yorkers) to succeed at the death in today's game.

    And even if he does get better with the ball, no matter how many back-to-back series he plays he will still be a liability as a fielder and a dud with the bat. No amount of bowling will save you if you have 4 tailenders in your XI.

    These kind of simple things really shouldn't need to be spoonfed to people who call themselves "cricket fans" but here we are.

  54. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by WengerOut View Post
    This, I agree with you for once. Like i said he is not the one we deserve, but the one we need right now.
    Yes. He need him. A lot of fans seem to only look at players as individuals which makes no sense in a team sport of 11.

    The building blocks of a successful cricket team is roles - and finding the best fit for each specific role. That's how modern day cricket, especially ODIs work. That's how you create a winning formula. You can't create a formula without constants. These "roles" are the contants in that formula.

  55. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_outsider View Post
    Maybe. Most likely he won't because he simply doesn't have the tools (slower balls, yorkers) to succeed at the death in today's game.

    And even if he does get better with the ball, no matter how many back-to-back series he plays he will still be a liability as a fielder and a dud with the bat. No amount of bowling will save you if you have 4 tailenders in your XI.

    These kind of simple things really shouldn't need to be spoonfed to people who call themselves "cricket fans" but here we are.
    Lol bhuvi with his all tools of slow balls, knuckle ball, yorker, bouncer still sucks badly in death overs so why not give someone else a chance? If you have to loose worldcup fine then do with better player instead of giving chances to player who has been repeated failure in odis. Let me clear you any good team if gets indian top order then no matter if our bowlers bat till #11 we will still loose. Bhuvi is not gonna win you match with his bat against top side. He might do against lanka to make dumb people like you happy.

  56. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_outsider View Post
    I am not protecting Bhuvi. I am quite concerned about his form.

    It's just that, I don't watch cricket like you do, with a bag of Cheetos in one hand and your cute little smartphone in the other.

    I watch the game with a little more intellectual capacity and to me it's very evident why Bhuvi is in the side - because he has all the tools that's necessary to do the role he has been given. He is there because he gives the team balance. And if some of the kids here payed a little more attention to the game, it would be very clear why he is in the team.

    Firstly, let's look at what the role demands:

    1. Pick a wicket up front
    2. Keep it tight at the death
    3. Be capable enough with the bat to finish tricky run chases

    Let's look at alternatives:

    Shami - ER of almost 12 in the death overs in the last 2 years. Picks up wickets but is expensive in the first 10 as well where he goes at 7+. Doesn't have a single variation. Doesn't bowl yorkers. A liability in the field and a tailender with the bat.

    Umesh - Overall quite expensive. Decent with the new ball and although he has a good yorker has also been quite expensive at the death. Has no variation i.e. slower balls, etc. An asset on the field but a tailender in ODIs.

    Khaleel - is growing very quickly as a bowler. Still has a lot of growing to do, obviously. If he wasn't yet another tailender, I reckon, come WC he might have leaped over Bhuvi for the 2nd seamer spot.

    If you pick Shami/Umesh/Khaleel in place of Bhuvi, batting ends at 7. Everyone after that is a tailender. And Bhuvi has batted enough for everyone to realise how important it is to have someone at no 8 who can bat.

    So if Bhuvi has to be dropped then, by default, Chahal has to be dropped because Jadeja has to come in his place as the no 8 batsman.

    So if you don't want Chahal in the side, drop Bhuvi and pick whomever you want. I don't really care.

    But I want Chahal in the side because I believe that a Bhuvi+Chahal bowling combo is far better than a Jadeja+Umesh/Shami bowling combo.

    I am concerned with his recent lack of form. But for now, he stay because team balance is the most important thing. And Bhuvi provides that balance.
    While I agree with you,its not just a form issue anymore.In last 2 years he's averaged 40+.Mainly because he bowls defensively upfront and his ER is of no use.2 for 60 is almost always better than 1 for 50 in terms of impact.Even Pandya can open bowling and do what Bhuvi does these days

    Shami was dropped mysteriously in CT has only played 2 games on roads since.Its quite unfair to point to his numbers specially when he's head and shoulders above Bhuvi in career numbers

    In terms of balance,Kuldeep is a handy bat and can bat at 8 if needed.Also we got options like Thakur/Chahar who can hold the bat if need be.But since the WC is in England,I'd like my pacers to be taking wickets irrespective of batting.Only Bumrah can't be the one to do that

    Jadeja has done as good as Chahal in matches played together since his return.Then there is his batting and fielding.Also there are spin AR like Krunal,Goutham we can use


    The only disability in life is a bad attitude. -Scott Hamilton

  57. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saurav View Post
    While I agree with you,its not just a form issue anymore.In last 2 years he's averaged 40+.Mainly because he bowls defensively upfront and his ER is of no use.2 for 60 is almost always better than 1 for 50 in terms of impact.Even Pandya can open bowling and do what Bhuvi does these days

    Shami was dropped mysteriously in CT has only played 2 games on roads since.Its quite unfair to point to his numbers specially when he's head and shoulders above Bhuvi in career numbers

    In terms of balance,Kuldeep is a handy bat and can bat at 8 if needed.Also we got options like Thakur/Chahar who can hold the bat if need be.But since the WC is in England,I'd like my pacers to be taking wickets irrespective of batting.Only Bumrah can't be the one to do that

    Jadeja has done as good as Chahal in matches played together since his return.Then there is his batting and fielding.Also there are spin AR like Krunal,Goutham we can use
    Like I said, if you are okay with picking Jadeja over Chahal then you can drop Bhuvi and play any pacer you want.

    I personally think Bhuvi+Chahal will get me more wickets than Shami+Jadeja will. So I have gone with the former.

    And no, Kuldeep is not a no 8 batsman at all. Not in LOIs for sure.

  58. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam99 View Post
    Lol bhuvi with his all tools of slow balls, knuckle ball, yorker, bouncer still sucks badly in death overs so why not give someone else a chance? If you have to loose worldcup fine then do with better player instead of giving chances to player who has been repeated failure in odis. Let me clear you any good team if gets indian top order then no matter if our bowlers bat till #11 we will still loose. Bhuvi is not gonna win you match with his bat against top side. He might do against lanka to make dumb people like you happy.
    India played with 4 tailenders in the 3rd ODI against a poor WI side recently. Let me recap your memory. top order didn't fail. Kohli got a century. Target was not big. Only 283. End result of the match? Lost by 43 runs.

    https://www.cricbuzz.com/live-cricke...-of-india-2018


    Let's also look at the quality of opposition and clutch situations where Bhuvi has stood up with the bat:

    Asia Cup Final: https://www.cricbuzz.com/live-cricke...-asia-cup-2018

    Against Aus: https://www.cricbuzz.com/live-cricke...-of-india-2017

    Against SA: https://www.cricbuzz.com/live-cricke...africa-2017-18

    https://www.cricbuzz.com/live-cricke...africa-2017-18



    Stick to your fidget spinners, munna. Cricket is beyond your intellectual capacity.

  59. #139
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    I hope Bhuvneshwar 'Economy' Kumar gets a few games in Australia so we can be done with him for good.

  60. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    I hope Bhuvneshwar 'Economy' Kumar gets a few games in Australia so we can be done with him for good.

  61. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_outsider View Post
    The very first sentence of my post says that Bhuvi is not India's strike bowler.

    Why bother quoting me if you didn't even read my post? Very weird.
    The reason being, with him taking the new ball, there is no point playing him if he is just there to control runs. Even that he isn't able to do well. Not being the strike bowler means he cannot take the new ball. The problem for India will be that we will only be playing 2 regular pacers most often with Pandya being the third and if one of the pacers cannot pick wickets we get exposed in conditions not favouring spin. He might be a good third pacer in teams who have two strike bowlers but not for India. If he takes the new ball he needs to pick wickets in majority of the games. We cannot have a bowler who will bowl 10-0-53-1 as that is useless for the India ODI side.

    He is good in T20's and Tests and he needs to stick to those formats. ODI for some reason is not Bhuvi's favourite format and we should stop trying to make him into something he is not.

  62. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam99 View Post
    What? I have Indian blood in my veins too. Just not the blue-tinted glasses...

    ... And I meant we, as in the cricketing community. No one likes seeing one of the top teams in the world have an opening bowler like Bhuvneshwar Kumar.

  63. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_outsider View Post
    India played with 4 tailenders in the 3rd ODI against a poor WI side recently. Let me recap your memory. top order didn't fail. Kohli got a century. Target was not big. Only 283. End result of the match? Lost by 43 runs.

    https://www.cricbuzz.com/live-cricke...-of-india-2018


    Let's also look at the quality of opposition and clutch situations where Bhuvi has stood up with the bat:

    Asia Cup Final: https://www.cricbuzz.com/live-cricke...-asia-cup-2018

    Against Aus: https://www.cricbuzz.com/live-cricke...-of-india-2017

    Against SA: https://www.cricbuzz.com/live-cricke...africa-2017-18

    https://www.cricbuzz.com/live-cricke...africa-2017-18



    Stick to your fidget spinners, munna. Cricket is beyond your intellectual capacity.
    Is he a batting all-rounder? No he is not. Batting is an added capability Bhuvi brings to the ODI side and that is not his strongest suit. Unless he averages 50 with the bat and bats in top 6, you cannot justify an average of 38 and SR of 55 with an economy of 5.3. That sort of record suits a part time spinner or a medium pacer whose strongest suit is batting. People like Yuvraj Singh, Sachin Tendulkar, Virendar Sehwag, who all bowled occasionally part time spin, can have an average 38-45 as they only bowl when your main bowlers get hammered but your primary bowler who takes the new ball every game cannot have such a record, no matter how many strong teams he might have stood up against with the bat.

  64. #144
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    Bhuvaneshwar fans keep being delusional. They talk about his batting as if he Ben Stokes lol.

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    If you go deep into stats then even hardik pandya's stats are better as bowler against top side compared to bhuvi.

  66. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    What? I have Indian blood in my veins too. Just not the blue-tinted glasses...

    ... And I meant we, as in the cricketing community. No one likes seeing one of the top teams in the world have an opening bowler like Bhuvneshwar Kumar.
    Good but indian fans and captain won't understand this. Worldcup hara kar hi manege ab toh.

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    Even pandya status is better than bhuvi,he can take some wicket against only low team.

  68. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Gomes View Post
    Bhuvaneshwar fans keep being delusional. They talk about his batting as if he Ben Stokes lol.
    He is no Ben Stokes, but without him India will be carrying full of Chris Martin s down the order. Side effects of picking specialist bowlers who can't wield their bat. Find a bowler who is half decent with the bat and then kick him out.
    Last edited by WengerOut; 14th November 2018 at 13:04.

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    He's top notch bowler in tests though and probably our 4th best batsman too. We would have actually won the England test series had Bhuvi been there.

    However, in ODIs, unless he averages 35+ with the bat with a 90+ SR he is no good.

  70. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_outsider View Post
    India played with 4 tailenders in the 3rd ODI against a poor WI side recently. Let me recap your memory. top order didn't fail. Kohli got a century. Target was not big. Only 283. End result of the match? Lost by 43 runs.

    https://www.cricbuzz.com/live-cricke...-of-india-2018


    Let's also look at the quality of opposition and clutch situations where Bhuvi has stood up with the bat:

    Asia Cup Final: https://www.cricbuzz.com/live-cricke...-asia-cup-2018

    Against Aus: https://www.cricbuzz.com/live-cricke...-of-india-2017

    Against SA: https://www.cricbuzz.com/live-cricke...africa-2017-18

    https://www.cricbuzz.com/live-cricke...africa-2017-18



    Stick to your fidget spinners, munna. Cricket is beyond your intellectual capacity.
    Bhuvi Da Batsman averages 14 with the bat with 70 SR.

    Along with his bowling stats, his batting stats lie too. What an enigma!

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    A harmless trundler.

    Just like Junaid Khan is.

    Though BK was decent in the start with his swing, but that too is ineffective now that people have studied him. And with his trundling it doesn't help.

    Predictable.

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    As per back of the envelop calc, Shami makes 10 runs off 12 deliveries every game while Bhuvi makes 14 of 20.

    So in comparison to tailender Shami, Bhuvi plays 8 more deliveries to give us 4 more runs every time he bats. What a batsman, what an all-rounder!!

    Or are the stats not telling the story again??

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    Quote Originally Posted by BreadPakoda View Post
    He's top notch bowler in tests though and probably our 4th best batsman too. We would have actually won the England test series had Bhuvi been there.

    However, in ODIs, unless he averages 35+ with the bat with a 90+ SR he is no good.
    Overseas batsman on current form*

    Couldn't edit after 2 min

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    Quote Originally Posted by WengerOut View Post
    He is no Ben Stokes, but without him India will be carrying full of Chris Martin s down the order. Side effects of picking specialist bowlers who can't wield their bat. Find a bowler who is half decent with the bat and then kick him out.
    Last I checked, his batting average is 14, not 41 lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by BreadPakoda View Post
    As per back of the envelop calc, Shami makes 10 runs off 12 deliveries every game while Bhuvi makes 14 of 20.

    So in comparison to tailender Shami, Bhuvi plays 8 more deliveries to give us 4 more runs every time he bats. What a batsman, what an all-rounder!!

    Or are the stats not telling the story again??
    If you already knew the answer then why are you asking?

    Remind me of a single batting innings of note from Shami. Then I'll remind you of the number of innings of note from Bhuvi. We'll see who has the higher count.

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    Quote Originally Posted by the_outsider View Post
    If you already knew the answer then why are you asking?

    Remind me of a single batting innings of note from Shami. Then I'll remind you of the number of innings of note from Bhuvi. We'll see who has the higher count.
    Lol this guy is pure troll. Bhuvi with his pathetic stats wouldn't get selected even in current zimbawe side. It's same give runs with ball and then make 10 - 12 runs with bat to cover it lol. Let's see how he helps to win worldcup when top order will get out early and middle order will be under pressure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Gomes View Post
    Last I checked, his batting average is 14, not 41 lol
    Doesn't matter what his average is. Certainly not when you are batting at no 8. What matters is if he can win you matches with the bat if the team is in a spot of bother. And he has shown that several times.

    David Willey averages 17. Do you remember his batting in the recent series against India?
    Adil Rashid averages 20. Plunkett averages 20. Ashwin has an avg of 16. Tim Southee averages 12. Cummins averages 12. Starc averages 12. But they can all help their team win a match with the bat.

    And just as a reference point, Shaun Pollock's batting average was 26 and he batted at no 7 most of the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by the_outsider View Post
    Doesn't matter what his average is. Certainly not when you are batting at no 8. What matters is if he can win you matches with the bat if the team is in a spot of bother. And he has shown that several times.

    David Willey averages 17. Do you remember his batting in the recent series against India?
    Adil Rashid averages 20. Plunkett averages 20. Ashwin has an avg of 16. Tim Southee averages 12. Cummins averages 12. Starc averages 12. But they can all help their team win a match with the bat.

    And just as a reference point, Shaun Pollock's batting average was 26 and he batted at no 7 most of the time.
    Shaun Pollock is one of the greatest ODI bowlers of all time, Bhuvaneshwar won't even make Bangladesh squad. Great comparison

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Gomes View Post
    Shaun Pollock is one of the greatest ODI bowlers of all time, Bhuvaneshwar won't even make Bangladesh squad. Great comparison
    My point with Shaun Pollock was very specifically about his batting. And it was to show how little relevance batting average has to batitng ability in the lower order.

    Don't try to twist my words.

    And like I have said before, give a solution to the earlier post I have written and you can get rid of Bhuvi.

    I don't have to have Bhuvi in the team. So if you can find an alternative who fits the role perfectly, please name him.
    Last edited by the_outsider; 14th November 2018 at 15:29.

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    Quote Originally Posted by the_outsider View Post
    It's very evident why Bhuvi is in the side - because he has all the tools that's necessary to do the role he has been given. He is there because he gives the team balance. And if some of the kids here payed a little more attention to the game, it would be very clear why he is in the team.

    Firstly, let's look at what the role demands:

    1. Pick a wicket up front
    2. Keep it tight at the death
    3. Be capable enough with the bat to finish tricky run chases

    Let's look at alternatives:

    Shami - ER of almost 12 in the death overs in the last 2 years. Picks up wickets but is expensive in the first 10 as well where he goes at 7+. Doesn't have a single variation. Doesn't bowl yorkers. A liability in the field and a tailender with the bat.

    Umesh - Overall quite expensive. Decent with the new ball and although he has a good yorker has also been quite expensive at the death. Has no variation i.e. slower balls, etc. An asset on the field but a tailender in ODIs.

    Khaleel - is growing very quickly as a bowler. Still has a lot of growing to do, obviously. If he wasn't yet another tailender, I reckon, come WC he might have leaped over Bhuvi for the 2nd seamer spot.

    If you pick Shami/Umesh/Khaleel in place of Bhuvi, batting ends at 7. Everyone after that is a tailender. And Bhuvi has batted enough for everyone to realise how important it is to have someone at no 8 who can bat.

    So if Bhuvi has to be dropped then, by default, Chahal has to be dropped because Jadeja has to come in his place as the no 8 batsman.

    So if you don't want Chahal in the side, drop Bhuvi and pick whomever you want. I don't really care.

    But I want Chahal in the side because I believe that a Bhuvi+Chahal bowling combo is far better than a Jadeja+Umesh/Shami bowling combo.

    I am concerned with his recent lack of form. But for now, he stay because team balance is the most important thing. And Bhuvi provides that balance.
    @Joseph Gomes

    Please answer this query so that we can find the perfect replacement for Bhuvi and the no 8 role.


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