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  1. #1
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    Do centuries matter if you end up losing the game?

    I get it.

    The excitement of scoring the runs and hitting centuries against a big team.

    But what's the point of it all?

    Maxwell ran himself out at 98, oblivious to his century.

    Two Pakistani batsmen went on to score centuries, and celebrated their achievements.

    Yet Pakistan lost because they got out at the wrong time.

    Playing for the win is the most important thing.

    Rizwan striking 2 6's at 82 and getting out at 94 was better with the team winning, rather than him completing a century and team failing to win.

    Discuss.


    And I get so high.. And I just can't feel it....

  2. #2
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    Only if you have given your best to win the match.


    It is either a heartache or a headache ..Argh relationships.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by JibranAnsari View Post
    Only if you have given your best to win the match.
    Did we ?


    And I get so high.. And I just can't feel it....

  4. #4
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    batsmen who scored 100s didnt know what was coming up!


    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Bassim View Post
    Did we ?
    No , the sole purpose looked like just scoring 100. Personal milestone seems more important to out batsmen. Centuries from rizwan and haris have been totally selfish in the series.


    It is either a heartache or a headache ..Argh relationships.

  6. #6
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    Its only pak batsmen who does it other players care for the team win and have some shame. We got no shame

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    batsmen who scored 100s didnt know what was coming up!
    They did, as one of the century literally paved the way to this loss. Scoring singles when team need boundaries, for personal milestone.

  8. #8
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    From the celebration we can understand Rizwan was only aiming for his century rather than the team winning.
    But also Rizwan doesn't have the ability to clear the boundary when required


    "Beware of this world, for it is sweet and tempting

  9. #9
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    No they shouldnt. Especially when the match is on line and you are the main culprit for getting it this close with your selfish batting.


    Sarfi as captain'll lead us to glory.Babar'll be our best odi bat & Haris'll be world class in tests

  10. #10
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    Rizwan hardly celebrated.

  11. #11
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    I think a better caption would have been...

    "Do centuries matter if you end up losing the game?"

    I would request moderators to edit the title.

    Because "getting to the century" eats up at so many balls, that the team's RRR goes up.


    And I get so high.. And I just can't feel it....

  12. #12
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    I believe Abid's century should be celebrated as he did all he could do. The batsmen didn't help him

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by JibranAnsari View Post
    No , the sole purpose looked like just scoring 100. Personal milestone seems more important to out batsmen. Centuries from rizwan and haris have been totally selfish in the series.
    I have seen a weird, weird culture among Pak fans (and a bit lesser in Indian fans) where batsman who do the hard work are blamed way more than batsman who got out cheaply. I mean in any team project if some guy did 90% of the work and others could not do even 10% of the remaining work, you blame the others, but Pak fans will always blame the player who did the work and not blame those like Akmals who didn't do anything. It's almost like the way to be blameless is not to do anything. So the person who does well is always expected to do everything else while the other batsmen sit twiddling their thumbs


    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect. --Mark Twain

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by xricket View Post
    They did, as one of the century literally paved the way to this loss. Scoring singles when team need boundaries, for personal milestone.
    Teams are scoring at 15 runs at over in the death but a RRR of 7 to 7.5 with so many wickets in hand is paving ways for a loss? What is this, the 1990s? You know some of the best finishers like Dhoni take to the end with more RRR than that and win? Because he is not like Akmal throwing it away?


    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect. --Mark Twain

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indiafan View Post
    I have seen a weird, weird culture among Pak fans (and a bit lesser in Indian fans) where batsman who do the hard work are blamed way more than batsman who got out cheaply. I mean in any team project if some guy did 90% of the work and others could not do even 10% of the remaining work, you blame the others, but Pak fans will always blame the player who did the work and not blame those like Akmals who didn't do anything. It's almost like the way to be blameless is not to do anything. So the person who does well is always expected to do everything else while the other batsmen sit twiddling their thumbs
    I blame others too , they got out cheaply. But you are well set and looking towards your 100 and the asking rate is 6.5 in the last 8 overs. You get your 100 2 overs before the finish and take all your time but in the process you ignore the rising required run rate because apparently winning isnt important.


    It is either a heartache or a headache ..Argh relationships.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indiafan View Post
    Teams are scoring at 15 runs at over in the death but a RRR of 7 to 7.5 with so many wickets in hand is paving ways for a loss? What is this, the 1990s? You know some of the best finishers like Dhoni take to the end with more RRR than that and win? Because he is not like Akmal throwing it away?
    What do you even want to say? Can't make sense of it. My comment was about personal milestone. Not about 1990s or whatever you made it into

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indiafan View Post
    I have seen a weird, weird culture among Pak fans (and a bit lesser in Indian fans) where batsman who do the hard work are blamed way more than batsman who got out cheaply. I mean in any team project if some guy did 90% of the work and others could not do even 10% of the remaining work, you blame the others, but Pak fans will always blame the player who did the work and not blame those like Akmals who didn't do anything. It's almost like the way to be blameless is not to do anything. So the person who does well is always expected to do everything else while the other batsmen sit twiddling their thumbs
    Usually the batsmen who score the runs aren't to be blamed.

    But when they slow down to the extent that the asking rate rises to 10 runs per over while they are patiently reaching their century, you do question their commitment to the cause.


    And I get so high.. And I just can't feel it....

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    batsmen who scored 100s didnt know what was coming up!
    Thank you exactly what I was thinking

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indiafan View Post
    I have seen a weird, weird culture among Pak fans (and a bit lesser in Indian fans) where batsman who do the hard work are blamed way more than batsman who got out cheaply. I mean in any team project if some guy did 90% of the work and others could not do even 10% of the remaining work, you blame the others, but Pak fans will always blame the player who did the work and not blame those like Akmals who didn't do anything. It's almost like the way to be blameless is not to do anything. So the person who does well is always expected to do everything else while the other batsmen sit twiddling their thumbs
    Nail right bang on the head there. Fans are deluded. They want new players to be tested but then want them to win Pakistan the match from the get go. If they fail then why this why that what bring this back bring that back. Its stupid mentality.
    A batsman on debut who probably did not even know he would be playing till the day takes advantage of his being in the team opens the innings and makes a century 112 off 119. Thats not a bad debut nor a bad strike rate for ODI.
    Rizwan makes a quick fire start shocking everyone that yes he CAN bat, he makes a 50 and then 100 at near enough a 100 sr and when the asking rate went up he tried his best to hit em.
    What did Haris do or Shan Masood or Umar Akmal.
    When Abid got out I believe Pak needed 59 from 50. Thats a perfectly set platform for Umar Akmal but he wont be blamed as much as the 2 centurions who'se innings are called selfish.
    I can't blame Imad because the asking rate was that high you had to hit from ball 1.

    The mentality of Pakistan fans are whatever happens they will never be happy. Guess T20 cricket is what has ruined the whole LOI foundation because now every player is expected to strike over 100+ everyone should bat up the order and all the players should be hitting sixes out the ground.
    I rather the team lose fighting rather than give up from 10 overs on and today we lost by 6 runs in a match which really had no meaning I mean the series is lost any way.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Bassim View Post
    I get it.

    The excitement of scoring the runs and hitting centuries against a big team.

    But what's the point of it all?

    Maxwell ran himself out at 98, oblivious to his century.

    Two Pakistani batsmen went on to score centuries, and celebrated their achievements.

    Yet Pakistan lost because they got out at the wrong time.

    Playing for the win is the most important thing.

    Rizwan striking 2 6's at 82 and getting out at 94 was better with the team winning, rather than him completing a century and team failing to win.

    Discuss.
    Their knocks didn't appear to be selfish. Besides, if they tried to end the match singlehandedly and attempted to get 20 runs in one over and had gotten out instead for an 80 odd - there would be a thread kn PP castigating them for sure.


    Politics trumps intelligence (pun intended).

  21. #21
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    Your job to is to score runs as long as you are doing that you can't really ask much more. Especially when others in the line up aren't contributing. Can remember when Kohli had the killer series in England last year, he was blamed for the 4-1 defeat

  22. #22
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    No.

    However, these two arenít finishers and are trying to get themselves into the team. Iím sure if their places in the team were secure and more experience at international level then they would have played more aggressively earlier.

    Iím more annoyed with MA for the batting order, SA should have come in before UA if they wanted to give him game time and win or after UA/IW if they wanted to win the game.

    Also the Akmals seem to only perform when the pressure is off, I thought UA turned a corner but clearly heís still useless. Letís be done with him!

  23. #23
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    Depends. Some centuries in losing cause are much better innings than some centuries in winning cause.

  24. #24
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    It's a team game & every player is in the team has a different role according to their abilities. Players like Imam, Abid, Babar, Haris, Rizwan etc. cannot hit the boundaries at will regardless of how well set they are. The best they can do is to play a long inning without wasting too many balls. In this regard Abid & Rizwan did their best by continuously finding gaps & rotating strike. In fact Rizwan tried to slog in the end but he simply don't have it in him.

    Umar Akmal is a stroke player and he has/had the ability to play at higher strike rate & considering his ability he was given a chance in this series to cope up with pak's lack of power game but he has shown no responsibility whatsoever and threw his wicket at a crucial moment while trying to slog.

    Imad Wasim is playing as an all-rounder (lower order hitter) in the team and did fine on most occasions but mostly in pressure situations he fails to deliver with the bat & he did the same yesterday.

    Haris wasted too many balls which he shouldn't considering the fact that our team lacks big hitters but he is such a lazy player. It doesn't give me any joy watching Haris batting in ODIs. Sometimes it seems He is at the pitch to sleep. I can say about Haris' hundred that it was a selfish inning bcoz he never even tried to hit the ball that too on a pure batting track (though if we consider dew factor yesterday's pitch wasn't bad for the batting either)

    We don't have batsmans like Rohit, du Plessis, Finch etc who can hit the good balls when set, so we shouldn't expect that our batters like Rizwan will hit the boundaries after playing a long inning. The best they can do is "not wasting too many balls"

  25. #25
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    Ask Sachin and Amla


    If you Can Believe In Something, Than why not believe In Yourself.

  26. #26
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    Scoring a hundred specifically isn't itself bad if it comes in losing cause. A quick winning 30-40 is better than a selfish 99.


    If you Can Believe In Something, Than why not believe In Yourself.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by JibranAnsari View Post
    I blame others too , they got out cheaply. But you are well set and looking towards your 100 and the asking rate is 6.5 in the last 8 overs. You get your 100 2 overs before the finish and take all your time but in the process you ignore the rising required run rate because apparently winning isnt important.
    Even RR of 10 in the last 8 overs is achievable these days with the advent of t20 cricket

    If the team canít win from 25 off 18 balls with 6 wickets in hand then it is the players who bat irresponsibly should be blamed not the centurions who build partnerships to bring the team closer to the target.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARK Rafay View Post
    Ask Sachin and Amla
    The only selfish innings i saw tendu play was his 100th and the last one. He gets way too much flak here on PP (may be we are envious that we never/ will never produce a batsman like him) for playing selfish knocks when the reality is that he played with a SR of 90+ throughout his career when par scores were ranging from 220 to 270.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARK Rafay View Post
    Scoring a hundred specifically isn't itself bad if it comes in losing cause. A quick winning 30-40 is better than a selfish 99.
    Let all 5 batsmen make winning 30-40 and the total would be somewhere between 150-200 and be content with it.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by ask_analyse_act View Post
    Let all 5 batsmen make winning 30-40 and the total would be somewhere between 150-200 and be content with it.
    How would you know 30-40 will be a winning total lol. It is just an example.


    If you Can Believe In Something, Than why not believe In Yourself.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by ask_analyse_act View Post
    Even RR of 10 in the last 8 overs is achievable these days with the advent of t20 cricket

    If the team can’t win from 25 off 18 balls with 6 wickets in hand then it is the players who bat irresponsibly should be blamed not the centurions who build partnerships to bring the team closer to the target.
    The team couldn't win from 25 off 18 balls because Mr. Rizwan ended up being 97 to 99 while the team ended up being 22 off 12 balls.

    Lets be honest.

    He wanted the 100.


    And I get so high.. And I just can't feel it....

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Bassim View Post
    The team couldn't win from 25 off 18 balls because Mr. Rizwan ended up being 97 to 99 while the team ended up being 22 off 12 balls.

    Lets be honest.

    He wanted the 100.
    Bro check your PM


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  33. #33
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    I don't see any fault of centurions in tge 4th ODI. It was their team members who were responsible for the loss. Did you guys watched the shots played by Umar Akmal and Imad Wasim. Same way Saad Ali as well although I think we can give him the benefit of doubt to him as he was on his debut.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indiafan View Post
    I have seen a weird, weird culture among Pak fans (and a bit lesser in Indian fans) where batsman who do the hard work are blamed way more than batsman who got out cheaply. I mean in any team project if some guy did 90% of the work and others could not do even 10% of the remaining work, you blame the others, but Pak fans will always blame the player who did the work and not blame those like Akmals who didn't do anything. It's almost like the way to be blameless is not to do anything. So the person who does well is always expected to do everything else while the other batsmen sit twiddling their thumbs
    This!! Iíve been a saying the same thing for years and Iíve never understood this logic. The people who make us the most runs and almost get us there get the blame whilst the others who do nothing get away with any blame. Surely with this logic itís better to get out on 0


    Listen to your parents. Love them and respect them. Do not ever disobey or be rude to them

  35. #35
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    When Abid Ali got out Pakistan needed 60 runs in 9 overs.. 7 wickets in hand. If you can't win from there then it's your own fault.

    PS: I didn't watch the match just posting after seeing scorecard online.

  36. #36
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    To claim that Rizwan and Abid were selfish is as ridiculous as it gets.

    Yes Abid played a tired shot and had a golden, unique opportunity of scoring 130 or 140 not out on his debut and taking his team home, and yes Rizwan could have scored more boundaries in the last 5 overs, but at the end of the day, they scored their hundreds at SRs of 90 and 100 respectively.

    Only in Pakistan are batsmen selfish when they score hundreds at a SR of 90 and 100. If this is selfish batting, I wonder what selfless batting will look like?

    Neither of the two batsmen were selfish. Abid Ali does not appear to be a big hitter and he looked exhausted in the end, while Rizwan is not a big hitter either but he played his role brilliantly.

    How many middle-order batsmen in Pakistan have the ability to score a run a ball hundred coming in at number four?

    99 out of 100 times, a team will be able to chase down 278 when two batsmen score hundreds at SRs of 90 and 100 respectively.

    We lost the match because everyone else batted like clowns. Only Pakistani fans are capable of blaming players who score 80% of the team runs.

    If you donít want to be called selfish by Pakistani fans, just donít score runs or spend time at the crease.

    Bat for 5 mins like Sarfaraz and you will be called selfless, but God forbid if you score a run a ball hundred, you will be accused of playing for yourself.

    Also, the pitch was not conductive for big hitting. Maxwell is a genius when it comes to improvising and hitting the big shots, but this pitch was made for finding the gaps and rotating the strike, and that is what Abid and Rizwan did brilliantly.

    Masood got a 5 ball duck, Haris played a dreadfully lethargic innings and Umar, Imad and Saad failed to rotate the strike.

    Had they batted like Abid and Rizwan, we would have walked the match inside 47-48 overs.

    However, they collectively scored 40 in 74 balls, and yet, our focus is on the pair that scored 216 in 221 balls. Pakistani fans are truly something else.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Bassim View Post
    I get it.

    The excitement of scoring the runs and hitting centuries against a big team.

    But what's the point of it all?

    Maxwell ran himself out at 98, oblivious to his century.

    Two Pakistani batsmen went on to score centuries, and celebrated their achievements.

    Yet Pakistan lost because they got out at the wrong time.

    Playing for the win is the most important thing.

    Rizwan striking 2 6's at 82 and getting out at 94 was better with the team winning, rather than him completing a century and team failing to win.

    Discuss.
    Two things and both are personal, a milestone & a cash reward of 5 hundred thousand which is in their contract. I am sure this used to be in the mind of batsmen when they reached in 80s and that is the reason why they get slower.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    To claim that Rizwan and Abid were selfish is as ridiculous as it gets.

    Yes Abid played a tired shot and had a golden, unique opportunity of scoring 130 or 140 not out on his debut and taking his team home, and yes Rizwan could have scored more boundaries in the last 5 overs, but at the end of the day, they scored their hundreds at SRs of 90 and 100 respectively.

    Only in Pakistan are batsmen selfish when they score hundreds at a SR of 90 and 100. If this is selfish batting, I wonder what selfless batting will look like?

    Neither of the two batsmen were selfish. Abid Ali does not appear to be a big hitter and he looked exhausted in the end, while Rizwan is not a big hitter either but he played his role brilliantly.

    How many middle-order batsmen in Pakistan have the ability to score a run a ball hundred coming in at number four?

    99 out of 100 times, a team will be able to chase down 278 when two batsmen score hundreds at SRs of 90 and 100 respectively.

    We lost the match because everyone else batted like clowns. Only Pakistani fans are capable of blaming players who score 80% of the team runs.

    If you don’t want to be called selfish by Pakistani fans, just don’t score runs or spend time at the crease.

    Bat for 5 mins like Sarfaraz and you will be called selfless, but God forbid if you score a run a ball hundred, you will be accused of playing for yourself.

    Also, the pitch was not conductive for big hitting. Maxwell is a genius when it comes to improvising and hitting the big shots, but this pitch was made for finding the gaps and rotating the strike, and that is what Abid and Rizwan did brilliantly.

    Masood got a 5 ball duck, Haris played a dreadfully lethargic innings and Umar, Imad and Saad failed to rotate the strike.

    Had they batted like Abid and Rizwan, we would have walked the match inside 47-48 overs.

    However, they collectively scored 40 in 74 balls, and yet, our focus is on the pair that scored 216 in 221 balls. Pakistani fans are truly something else.
    I think the whole talk is about losing from winning position & yes Rizwan & Akmal are the culprit for the defeat.

  39. #39
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    To this day, I remember the ups and downs of Inzi's 122 vs. India while chasing 350.

    It was a class innings even if they lost.

    However, yes there are times when a hundred has the opposite effect, especially while chasing a larger total. Although, I wouldn't blame yesterday's loss on Rizwan/Ali. The entire lower order fell apart and that's a major fail.


    May the Hawks Fly Forever. Lightning Hawks CC -- Team Thread.

  40. #40
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    Yesterdays loss to Aussies is one of the biggest debacles I have seen in recent memory. How we compleyely choked
    A winning position from there takes alot of skill@@@

    Now I think Abid Ali is a good batsman and should be in the squad regardless. However he seemed more interested in proving a point rather than team winning. I wasnt happy with his excessive celebrations after the 50 but once he hit his ton it was understandable enough and I have no problem with this but when you get so pumped up it breaks your focus and hence why alot of our players end up getting out after this. Or they incorrectly think the job is done and hit out in a wild manner like Abid granted it's probably a fitness issue also...

    The thing that wound me up the most and what I detest is when he came back to dressing room it was like he was a victorious Roman general returning to the capital for a parade all hi fiving and shaking everyone's hand like the match is over!@ everyone was acting like the match was over so even when imad came out to bat he was so casual in his attitude as was saad Ali!!@

    If I was manager I would not allow any kind of big celebration till the match is over under any circumstances and if you reach a personal milestone and we lose then as far as I am concerned it's almost irrelevant! Dont get me wrong a tap of appreciation on the shoulder to let him know good job but after that go sit down and wait till we win or if we win
    Even after match abid was giving interview about proving his worth etc....that is wrong mentality. On the other hand
    Finch and maxwell post match interviews give you the right idea and thinking required to be consistent match winners!!


  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    To claim that Rizwan and Abid were selfish is as ridiculous as it gets.

    Yes Abid played a tired shot and had a golden, unique opportunity of scoring 130 or 140 not out on his debut and taking his team home, and yes Rizwan could have scored more boundaries in the last 5 overs, but at the end of the day, they scored their hundreds at SRs of 90 and 100 respectively.

    Only in Pakistan are batsmen selfish when they score hundreds at a SR of 90 and 100. If this is selfish batting, I wonder what selfless batting will look like?

    Neither of the two batsmen were selfish. Abid Ali does not appear to be a big hitter and he looked exhausted in the end, while Rizwan is not a big hitter either but he played his role brilliantly.

    How many middle-order batsmen in Pakistan have the ability to score a run a ball hundred coming in at number four?

    99 out of 100 times, a team will be able to chase down 278 when two batsmen score hundreds at SRs of 90 and 100 respectively.

    We lost the match because everyone else batted like clowns. Only Pakistani fans are capable of blaming players who score 80% of the team runs.

    If you don’t want to be called selfish by Pakistani fans, just don’t score runs or spend time at the crease.

    Bat for 5 mins like Sarfaraz and you will be called selfless, but God forbid if you score a run a ball hundred, you will be accused of playing for yourself.

    Also, the pitch was not conductive for big hitting. Maxwell is a genius when it comes to improvising and hitting the big shots, but this pitch was made for finding the gaps and rotating the strike, and that is what Abid and Rizwan did brilliantly.

    Masood got a 5 ball duck, Haris played a dreadfully lethargic innings and Umar, Imad and Saad failed to rotate the strike.

    Had they batted like Abid and Rizwan, we would have walked the match inside 47-48 overs.

    However, they collectively scored 40 in 74 balls, and yet, our focus is on the pair that scored 216 in 221 balls. Pakistani fans are truly something else.
    If you require 25 from 18 balls with you on 97 and move to 99 with 22 off 12 balls remaining, it means you are interested in your century.

    I won't answer your long explanation because context matters.

    Context was 25 off 18 is doable, if you are not focusing on your 100.

    22 off 12 becomes hard.


    And I get so high.. And I just can't feel it....

  42. #42
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    Some people need to understand that when a pak player scores a century they get a bonus. Their starting salary is not as high as the aussies'. Australia gives 3x i believe more money its players and they already get a lot from the IPL so they don't need more money from bonuses. Pak players don't have this especially new players such as rizwan. This is just my opinion.

  43. #43
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    Should not matter unless the batsman plays according to the situation and gives it their all, not when they selfishly slow down in their 90s.

    This has always bugged me when cricketers cared about their statistics, and you can see it when they take off their helmets after 50s or do sajdas after 100s or running and punching the air.

    It's honestly embarrassing, you're not meant to just score 100, its like they realize that their job is done and start celebrating, even if they are not chasing a target, that 100 might not be enough.

    It should be about playing for your nation or team, not yourself.


    Babar Azam: Runs 8032, Average 44, Top Score: 204, Fav fan: CricFan2012

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Bassim View Post
    If you require 25 from 18 balls with you on 97 and move to 99 with 22 off 12 balls remaining, it means you are interested in your century.

    I won't answer your long explanation because context matters.

    Context was 25 off 18 is doable, if you are not focusing on your 100.

    22 off 12 becomes hard.
    I agree that context matters, which is why I am pointed out that your ignoring a much bigger context:

    Masood, Haris, Umar, Saad and Imad combined to score 40/5 in 12.2 overs, and that is why we lost the game.

    Perhaps Rizwan could have done better and even a six would have sealed the game, but Pakistan would never have reached a point where it would have required 25 in 18 balls.

    If the other batsmen (except Abid) would have played with a semblance of responsibility that Rizwan did, our equation would probably have been 15 in 24 balls, and we would have walked home.

    If you agree with my assessment that Rizwan and Abid could have done a tad more, but their excellent knocks were undone by the pathetic batting of the other batsmen who lost Pakistan the game, we have nothing to disagree on.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by MT786 View Post
    Some people need to understand that when a pak player scores a century they get a bonus. Their starting salary is not as high as the aussies'. Australia gives 3x i believe more money its players and they already get a lot from the IPL so they don't need more money from bonuses. Pak players don't have this especially new players such as rizwan. This is just my opinion.
    I think this is a very gloomy outlook. It is true that our players earn much less than their Australian counterparts and mostly come from impoverished backgrounds, but you can never reach the top level in sports unless you have passion and love for the game.

    When a player steps on the field, he wants to win. It is only natural and that is how it works in every sport, whether is individual or a team sport. Yes every player loves individual milestones, but I highly doubt that Pakistani batsmen want to score runs solely because of monetary benefits.

    Pakistani fans often confuse inability with selfishness, and that is why this term is used for Pakistani players more often than other cricketers.

    Players like Rizwan, Haris, Babar etc. simply do not have the skill and ability to play big shots at will. It doesnít mean that they are not selfish.

    Even yesterday, Rizwan tried a few slogs but he either caught thin air or mistimed the ball. He played a brilliant innings within his limitations and we lost because all others completely failed except for Abid.

  46. #46
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    Our centurions played quality knocks and put us in a great position to win the match. I blame Umar Akmal, and to some extent, Imad. It was foolish and unfair (on Saad) to send debutant Saad Ali ahead of himself in such a situation.

  47. #47
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    Yasir Shah at #8 really hurts the team as well. The opposition know they only need to get six wickets to beat us.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by ask_analyse_act View Post
    Even RR of 10 in the last 8 overs is achievable these days with the advent of t20 cricket

    If the team can’t win from 25 off 18 balls with 6 wickets in hand then it is the players who bat irresponsibly should be blamed not the centurions who build partnerships to bring the team closer to the target.
    Bro the centurion was there till the very end , you expect someone who has scored 100 and chasing modest total to do the job 9 out of 10 times. Akmal was a non sensical selection anyways.


    It is either a heartache or a headache ..Argh relationships.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Bassim View Post
    If you require 25 from 18 balls with you on 97 and move to 99 with 22 off 12 balls remaining, it means you are interested in your century.

    I won't answer your long explanation because context matters.

    Context was 25 off 18 is doable, if you are not focusing on your 100.

    22 off 12 becomes hard.
    Rizwan faced two balls in that over by Coulter-Nile and made two runs. Yeah, a boundary from him would have been nice but what cost us was that Imad and Saad made 1 off 4 balls from the other end.

    Sending Saad at that point instead of Imad coming himself wasn't a great idea either.


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  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indiafan View Post
    I have seen a weird, weird culture among Pak fans (and a bit lesser in Indian fans) where batsman who do the hard work are blamed way more than batsman who got out cheaply. I mean in any team project if some guy did 90% of the work and others could not do even 10% of the remaining work, you blame the others, but Pak fans will always blame the player who did the work and not blame those like Akmals who didn't do anything. It's almost like the way to be blameless is not to do anything. So the person who does well is always expected to do everything else while the other batsmen sit twiddling their thumbs
    This is a really poor analogy.

    If you take all the work-material, lock yourself in a room, and then by the time the deadline has expired, you did only 80% of work and then say my team-mates didn't do anything, do you think that makes sense?

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by CricketAnalyst View Post
    This is a really poor analogy.

    If you take all the work-material, lock yourself in a room, and then by the time the deadline has expired, you did only 80% of work and then say my team-mates didn't do anything, do you think that makes sense?
    Rizwan played at a 100 strike-rate and Abid at 94, while all other so called batsmen wasted deliveries and got out. If the lower-middle order can't even strike the ball, then don't expect any team to win.

  52. #52
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    The game should have been finished by Akmal and Imad. I will not even blame top order because the required run rate was easily achievable with so many wickets in hand.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    To claim that Rizwan and Abid were selfish is as ridiculous as it gets.

    Yes Abid played a tired shot and had a golden, unique opportunity of scoring 130 or 140 not out on his debut and taking his team home, and yes Rizwan could have scored more boundaries in the last 5 overs, but at the end of the day, they scored their hundreds at SRs of 90 and 100 respectively.

    Only in Pakistan are batsmen selfish when they score hundreds at a SR of 90 and 100. If this is selfish batting, I wonder what selfless batting will look like?

    Neither of the two batsmen were selfish. Abid Ali does not appear to be a big hitter and he looked exhausted in the end, while Rizwan is not a big hitter either but he played his role brilliantly.

    How many middle-order batsmen in Pakistan have the ability to score a run a ball hundred coming in at number four?

    99 out of 100 times, a team will be able to chase down 278 when two batsmen score hundreds at SRs of 90 and 100 respectively.

    We lost the match because everyone else batted like clowns. Only Pakistani fans are capable of blaming players who score 80% of the team runs.

    If you donít want to be called selfish by Pakistani fans, just donít score runs or spend time at the crease.

    Bat for 5 mins like Sarfaraz and you will be called selfless, but God forbid if you score a run a ball hundred, you will be accused of playing for yourself.

    Also, the pitch was not conductive for big hitting. Maxwell is a genius when it comes to improvising and hitting the big shots, but this pitch was made for finding the gaps and rotating the strike, and that is what Abid and Rizwan did brilliantly.

    Masood got a 5 ball duck, Haris played a dreadfully lethargic innings and Umar, Imad and Saad failed to rotate the strike.

    Had they batted like Abid and Rizwan, we would have walked the match inside 47-48 overs.

    However, they collectively scored 40 in 74 balls, and yet, our focus is on the pair that scored 216 in 221 balls. Pakistani fans are truly something else.
    I'm glad you're thinking along those lines now.

    Should now have a single standard then and support the inclusion of Fawad Alam, who you've not been supporting because of his limited game.

    Even though he can and does score at a decent strike rate late 80s to 90s.

    Rizwan has the exact game as Fawad Alam, just not that ugly but the same output.

    Heck, Fawad can even hit some sixes but Rizwan can't.

  54. #54
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    For me personally, they don't matter if you've lost the game as I always want Pakistan to win first and foremost. They will matter to the individual player and perhaps to ******* of that player.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    I'm glad you're thinking along those lines now.

    Should now have a single standard then and support the inclusion of Fawad Alam, who you've not been supporting because of his limited game.

    Even though he can and does score at a decent strike rate late 80s to 90s.

    Rizwan has the exact game as Fawad Alam, just not that ugly but the same output.

    Heck, Fawad can even hit some sixes but Rizwan can't.
    Still remember when fawad took us home vs ban 2014 when afridi got out. It looked like it will go to the wire but fawad hit 2 sixes and settled it. That was something we needed yeaterday from Rizwan.

  56. #56
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    It certainly matters to Abid Ali. This was his first match, and he only played because Imad was hurt. Imagine if we got out on 0, he might never get another game.

    This century can literally change his life. Most cricketers are from humble backgrounds, and with his performance on debut he will at least get a few more matches, which might get him some more overseas contract for T20 leagues, or for county cricket. He is already 31, he doesn't have much time left to cash out on his cricket career. I would celebrate too.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by MT786 View Post
    Still remember when fawad took us home vs ban 2014 when afridi got out. It looked like it will go to the wire but fawad hit 2 sixes and settled it. That was something we needed yeaterday from Rizwan.
    Exactly.

    I wonder where are all those people who've hated on Fawad for being a limited batsman.

    But are now in awe of Rizwan.

    At least accept that he's limited and is another in the long line of accumulators that we have.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gharib Aadmi View Post
    It certainly matters to Abid Ali. This was his first match, and he only played because Imad was hurt. Imagine if we got out on 0, he might never get another game.

    This century can literally change his life. Most cricketers are from humble backgrounds, and with his performance on debut he will at least get a few more matches, which might get him some more overseas contract for T20 leagues, or for county cricket. He is already 31, he doesn't have much time left to cash out on his cricket career. I would celebrate too.
    Yeah, but PCT isn't a charity case or recruitment agency for other leagues.

  59. #59
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    They do for sure. A ton would give any batsmen a lot of confidence for his next innings even if his team loses. I am not a fan of Rizwan the batsman neither was I an admirer of Fawad but at least he gets runs for the team.


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    I'm glad you're thinking along those lines now.

    Should now have a single standard then and support the inclusion of Fawad Alam, who you've not been supporting because of his limited game.

    Even though he can and does score at a decent strike rate late 80s to 90s.

    Rizwan has the exact game as Fawad Alam, just not that ugly but the same output.

    Heck, Fawad can even hit some sixes but Rizwan can't.

    No thank you. Rizwan has better stroke-play than the hockey player who is on the floor after every shot, and can only take singles in specific areas. He cannot maintain a SR of 100 like Rizwan against teams like Australia. In the 2014 ODI series in the UAE, they bowled into his body and he scored 20 in 40 deliveries, batting in the death overs.

    The way Rizwan manoeuvred the field and found the gaps was very impressive. Not many batsmen in Pakistan are capable of batting at a 90+ SR throughout the innings, but Rizwan appears to be one of them. Unlike Fawad, he can play shots on both sides of the wicket off either foot, but his main weakness is his inability to clear the rope. However, on any given day, he is more capable than Fawad of hitting big shots.

  61. #61
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    It’s about batting for the team. A defensive century when the opposition is on a victory charge is noble. It could prevent humiliation and encourage the team for the next match.

    Batting for personal milestones is ignoble.

  62. #62
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    Rizwan has been involved in some fantastic chases for the A team, and there is no doubt both Abid and Rizwan will be hurting from this defeat. They will surely learn from this experience and be better for it. Batsmanship isn't a static skill. It's naive to expect finished articles when you're just starting out, but they've shown enough talent, skill and most importantly temperament to be given more opportunities. Patience is certainly warranted.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    No thank you. Rizwan has better stroke-play than the hockey player who is on the floor after every shot, and can only take singles in specific areas. He cannot maintain a SR of 100 like Rizwan against teams like Australia. In the 2014 ODI series in the UAE, they bowled into his body and he scored 20 in 40 deliveries, batting in the death overs.

    The way Rizwan manoeuvred the field and found the gaps was very impressive. Not many batsmen in Pakistan are capable of batting at a 90+ SR throughout the innings, but Rizwan appears to be one of them. Unlike Fawad, he can play shots on both sides of the wicket off either foot, but his main weakness is his inability to clear the rope. However, on any given day, he is more capable than Fawad of hitting big shots.
    Well, you're too optimistic if you think Rizwan can bat like that against half decent bowling.

    Because of his limitations, will be like a headless chicken under lights. Easy to limit his scoring once you've worked him out.

    We'll see how he does in future matches.

  64. #64
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    Do centuries matter if you end up losing the game?

    There is only one man qualified to answer this question, Tendulkar.

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    I suppose since none of our batsmen can win us any games, this would be their next target. Congrats to Haris today. Choti choti khushian. Hope the cake tastes nice.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Bassim View Post
    If you require 25 from 18 balls with you on 97 and move to 99 with 22 off 12 balls remaining, it means you are interested in your century.

    I won't answer your long explanation because context matters.

    Context was 25 off 18 is doable, if you are not focusing on your 100.

    22 off 12 becomes hard.
    Here is the story of that 48th over. 25 required on 18.
    48.1 saad on strike. OUT
    48.2 Rizwan on strike. 1 RUN
    48.3 Imad on strike. 1 RUN
    48.4 Rizwan on strike. 1 RUN
    48.5 Imad on strike. DOT
    48.6 Imad on strike. DOT
    By telling the half truth you are pretending that as of Rizwan wasted 6 deliveries for 2 runs, whereas he faced only 2 deliveries in that over and made 2 runs. Imad & Saad combined faced rest of the 4 deliveries for only 1 run & lost a wicket too. If Rizwan would have hit a boundary or six that would have been better but he doesn't have the ability to hit the ball hard in the death overs, so he can't be blamed for that.


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