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  1. #81
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    Every win Pakistan had was a fluke, 1992 WC, 2017 CT...

    WCs we were supposed to win were 1988, 1996 and 1999...We were favorite, but did not won any of those...

    At the same token, most WC wins were fluke... 1983 India, 1988 AUS, 1992 PAK, 1996 SL, 1999 AUS...These are just examples at the top of my head, where favorites did not win but a team with little chance took the crown.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_outsider View Post
    A bit rich for you to day that right after the phainta they just gave your boys.
    30 odd runs is no phenty. Yes it would have been a fluke had Bangladesh won the ICC Champions Trophy. Yesterdays win proves that they were better on the day where as the aforementioned tournament is played over a number of weeks with all top teams playing each other. There is no comparison between the Asia Cup and Champions Trophy.


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

  3. #83
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    Akram saying it a fluke has more to do with disappointment than anything else.

  4. #84
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    lol I don't buy this. Wasim will be back in a bit saying "Oh did I say fluke? I meant masterclass "

  5. #85
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    Akram Bhai is a legend :akram

  6. #86
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    what a bump

  7. #87
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    I donít think it was a fluke. Pakistan peaked at the right time to beat quality teams to win the cup.

    Having said that, that triumph did not make Pakistan a great cricket nation. A solo trophy doesnít earn that. You have to perform well over a period of time to be called a great team. That is what this Pakistani team failed to achieve u fortunately

    On the contrary, India were hard done by that loss. They actually have evolved and performed as a great team over the last many years. They couldnít deliver on that given day. That defeat didnít make them lesser than Pakistan. Just empty handed that day. It would have been a great addition to our trophy cabinet. We were thoroughly crushed through. Pakistan deserved that trophy but didnít deserve to be called the best in the world.

  8. #88
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    No it was NOT a fluke

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by freelance_cricketer View Post
    I donít think it was a fluke. Pakistan peaked at the right time to beat quality teams to win the cup.

    Having said that, that triumph did not make Pakistan a great cricket nation. A solo trophy doesnít earn that. You have to perform well over a period of time to be called a great team. That is what this Pakistani team failed to achieve u fortunately

    On the contrary, India were hard done by that loss. They actually have evolved and performed as a great team over the last many years. They couldnít deliver on that given day. That defeat didnít make them lesser than Pakistan. Just empty handed that day. It would have been a great addition to our trophy cabinet. We were thoroughly crushed through. Pakistan deserved that trophy but didnít deserve to be called the best in the world.
    That is very true because Afte the champions trophy team and even some of the players performances just went down hill

  10. #90
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    The only people how use the world fluke, are Indians, and fake Pakistani patriots.

    Move on, Pakistan beat India in the CT17 final, and no World Cup group win will top that!

    If you really want to talk about flukes, 1983 WC.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Technics 1210 View Post
    The only people how use the world fluke, are Indians, and fake Pakistani patriots.

    Move on, Pakistan beat India in the CT17 final, and no World Cup group win will top that!

    If you really want to talk about flukes, 1983 WC.
    chai 7-0 hahaha. no amount of false bravado can dull your pain.

  12. #92
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    Today showed why CT 2017 was an anomaly .Pakistan was way inferior team to India then and it is way inferior even today also.

  13. #93
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    WC 83 would have been as much a fluke as CT 17 if Pakistan would have beaten India in both the group stages and the finals, and then won the WC in '19.

  14. #94
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    I agreed to Wasim at that time

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by jadaja View Post
    Today showed why CT 2017 was an anomaly .Pakistan was way inferior team to India then and it is way inferior even today also.
    ROfl inferior yet its top order players need misfields and run out misses by Pakistan, apni auqaat makn reh kar baat karo.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draeoftroy View Post
    ROfl inferior yet its top order players need misfields and run out misses by Pakistan, apni auqaat makn reh kar baat karo.
    Are you kidding me, did anybody ask them not to runout, fielding is also part of the game.CT2017 will do more harm than good to Pakistan.It has given Pakistan cricket a wrong sense of progress as seen after that match.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by jadaja View Post
    Today showed why CT 2017 was an anomaly .Pakistan was way inferior team to India then and it is way inferior even today also.
    Virat mentioned CT17 final in post match interview; fluke, anomaly, what ever word you want to pick, it still hurts the nation.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by jadaja View Post
    Are you kidding me, did anybody ask them not to runout, fielding is also part of the game.CT2017 will do more harm than good to Pakistan.It has given Pakistan cricket a wrong sense of progress as seen after that match.
    Its none of your concern what happens to Paksitan team, your loser team lost to Windies in T20, batting on eggshells when Amir was bowling with scrambled seam. Rofl they were'nt careful as your pathetic biased commentators were saying, they were scared.
    They bat on perfect conditions with 4.5 RR rofl. Selfish and spaced out individuals who can't play on pitches where bowl swings or seams.

  19. #99
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    That CT win was the perfect opportunity for our team to take themselves to the next level. Instead we saw our captain and some players develop chubby fat face and bellies and their Cricket regress

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Technics 1210 View Post
    Virat mentioned CT17 final in post match interview; fluke, anomaly, what ever word you want to pick, it still hurts the nation.
    It does hurt, if India had lost to a better side in 2017, it wouldn't have hurt.India and Pakistan if they play 100 times India will win 95 plus times.

    That is why CT 2017 is one of the most disappointing loss in Indian cricket history.100 world cup wins will not be equal to that loss.

  21. #101
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    I don’t think it was a fluke. But it just papered over the cracks. The captain is pathetic and there are too many average players. We should have moved Hafeez and Malik on after the CT. Instead we have carried them to the WC.

    Because of winning the CT we believe we can win the WC. Which is just unrealistic.

  22. #102
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    Not a fluke but certainly not something that can be expected from a team like Pakistan again and again. Pakistan have had their high by beating England. Not sure Pakistan can repeat something like that anytime soon.

  23. #103
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    CT final might well have been a critical moment for indian cricket.It led to removal of jaddu and ashwin and created kulcha -the dreaded spin duo that is the key to indian success.

  24. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by jadaja View Post
    It does hurt, if India had lost to a better side in 2017, it wouldn't have hurt.India and Pakistan if they play 100 times India will win 95 plus times.

    That is why CT 2017 is one of the most disappointing loss in Indian cricket history.100 world cup wins will not be equal to that loss.
    Absolutely. That loss will forever haunt me.

  25. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Technics 1210 View Post
    Virat mentioned CT17 final in post match interview; fluke, anomaly, what ever word you want to pick, it still hurts the nation.
    It was a big fluke and that is why it hurts. Losing against a good team doesn't hurt as much.

  26. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Technics 1210 View Post
    Virat mentioned CT17 final in post match interview; fluke, anomaly, what ever word you want to pick, it still hurts the nation.
    No it doesn't and the performance of both teams since then makes it even more obvious. It was just a fluke but a lot of Pakistan fans are still delusional living in their own alternative reality.

    "Cornered, On their day, unpredictable , their best on a day, reserve their best against India" are all euphemisms for mediocrity which is at full display by the Pakistan team.

    Waqar, Wasim Akram, Miandad, Saleem Malik and all other cricketing greats are history but most of the Pakistan fans are still living in that era. The world has moved on and so has the game. The gulf between the two teams is obvious. In its current state, regardless of the venue and playing conditions, you can expect Pakistan to loose every time in both the LOI and Test format.

  27. #107
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    It indeed was a true fluke, as some folks have rightly been pointing out.

  28. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by CricketIsAwesome View Post
    No it doesn't and the performance of both teams since then makes it even more obvious. It was just a fluke but a lot of Pakistan fans are still delusional living in their own alternative reality.

    "Cornered, On their day, unpredictable , their best on a day, reserve their best against India" are all euphemisms for mediocrity which is at full display by the Pakistan team.

    Waqar, Wasim Akram, Miandad, Saleem Malik and all other cricketing greats are history but most of the Pakistan fans are still living in that era. The world has moved on and so has the game. The gulf between the two teams is obvious. In its current state, regardless of the venue and playing conditions, you can expect Pakistan to loose every time in both the LOI and Test format.
    You are right, the world has moved on, but Indians just cannot get the CT17 defeat out of their heads. Hence why VK was mentioning it today, and why 1.3 Billion tuned in today to avenge that whooping.Still hurt, and responding!

    The gulf is obvious in the World Cup, not outside, seeing as the 2 teams do not play each other in bilateral series, and the last time they did, Pakistan beat India in India in 2012 with a weaker team compared to today's performance!

    Get over it, you can call CT17 what you like, but the records will show that Pakistan beat India in an ICC ODI final and no WC group match defeat will top it.

  29. #109
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    Told it long ago that CT win was a bone thrown at us so that BCCI can have a big meal.

  30. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by austerlitz View Post
    CT final might well have been a critical moment for indian cricket.It led to removal of jaddu and ashwin and created kulcha -the dreaded spin duo that is the key to indian success.


    Saw this Kulcha being eaten by Root and Morgan alive last year. Moronic and nepotistic players like Babar Azam should'nt be made a standard to call these finger spinners world beaters. Our batting lineup made Windies mediocrewbowling look like World class earlier this month.

  31. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    It indeed was a true fluke, as some folks have rightly been pointing out.
    You cant fluke a 180 run victory in the final and also by beating England in the semis. Pakistan were the best team but have gone backwards.

    Vikram likes to keep his Indian followers happy from time to time.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  32. #112
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    India yahan par ghaseet ghaseet kar maar rahi hai, twice in Asia Cup and now in World Cup some are still stuck at the CT17 fluke.

  33. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draeoftroy View Post


    Saw this Kulcha being eaten by Root and Morgan alive last year. Moronic and nepotistic players like Babar Azam should'nt be made a standard to call these finger spinners world beaters. Our batting lineup made Windies mediocrewbowling look like World class earlier this month.
    Kuldeep ran through england twice last year.Also our pace attack of shami,bumrah didn't play so no early player.Bhuvi was injured.Next 3 matches shami will play.If you think bhuvi was good enough ,just wait once bumrah and shami begin the assault.

  34. #114
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    I am not sure why this is up for such vigorous debate. if the CT win is a fluke then I guess the world cup win must have been a fluke as well since we lost 1 - 4 to England right after that.

    We played better cricket in Ct and got on a roll and won. If we do the same in this world cup you wont see me complaining.

  35. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by austerlitz View Post
    Kuldeep ran through england twice last year.Also our pace attack of shami,bumrah didn't play so no early player.Bhuvi was injured.Next 3 matches shami will play.If you think bhuvi was good enough ,just wait once bumrah and shami begin the assault.
    Hahahaa
    what are you smoking? Chahal only performed in the first match in the 3 odi series v England and thenRoot and Morgan ran over Kulcha sorry Kuldeep for 68 runs in 10 overs rofl to win the series 2-1. the famous bat drop is something I'll never forget.

    Please stay in your delusions, they will set the world on fire than will be bashed by Sri Lanka like that Champins Trophy match at oval where SRL players chased 322. Beaten by Pakistan was a real humiliation given its batting .

  36. #116
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    It's funny how people bashes @Mamoon for two years and now everyone is suddenly claiming to be a genius and accepting how Pak got lucky with the circumstances.

    I guess dair ayi drust ayi?


    "You aren't a failure if you fail, you are a failure if you don't get up to try again" - Imran Khan.

  37. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Technics 1210 View Post
    You are right, the world has moved on, but Indians just cannot get the CT17 defeat out of their heads. Hence why VK was mentioning it today, and why 1.3 Billion tuned in today to avenge that whooping.Still hurt, and responding!

    The gulf is obvious in the World Cup, not outside, seeing as the 2 teams do not play each other in bilateral series, and the last time they did, Pakistan beat India in India in 2012 with a weaker team compared to today's performance!

    Get over it, you can call CT17 what you like, but the records will show that Pakistan beat India in an ICC ODI final and no WC group match defeat will top it.
    It is actually the other way around and it seems like CT17 is living in the heads of quite a few delusional fans who have built their own alternative universe. Ayy time the two teams play or there is mention of a match between the two countires, they just can't seem to move past CT17.

    India & Pakisatn not playing each other for whatever reason is a blessing for the Pakistan team who would be crucified in almost every encounter. The Pakistan team can have all the pep talks from Imran, their team coach and whosoever but at the end of it all, it is still a crop of mediocre players, sorry "unpredictable, cornetred tigers" , who will be motivated enough and beatc any team including India "On their day".
    Mohd Amir performed well today but he is not a match winner any more and the Pakistan team cannot be expected to ride on his back alone or on other individual performances.

  38. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    You cant fluke a 180 run victory in the final and also by beating England in the semis. Pakistan were the best team but have gone backwards.
    That is exactly what a fluke is. You can expect it to happen once in a blue moon. The performance of the Pakistan team, since, reinforces it

  39. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draeoftroy View Post
    Hahahaa
    what are you smoking? Chahal only performed in the first match in the 3 odi series v England and thenRoot and Morgan ran over Kulcha sorry Kuldeep for 68 runs in 10 overs rofl to win the series 2-1. the famous bat drop is something I'll never forget.

    Please stay in your delusions, they will set the world on fire than will be bashed by Sri Lanka like that Champins Trophy match at oval where SRL players chased 322. Beaten by Pakistan was a real humiliation given its batting .
    Lol,keep watching the cup and gaze at the worlds best ODI bowling attack.You can only wish you had a kuldeep,all you have is darter imad and selfieboy shadab,lol.And 2 old chucker cum saqlain copies.
    Last edited by austerlitz; 17th June 2019 at 00:58.

  40. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by CricketIsAwesome View Post
    That is exactly what a fluke is. You can expect it to happen once in a blue moon. The performance of the Pakistan team, since, reinforces it
    Pakistan beat SL, SA, Eng and demolished India to win the CT. Look up the definition and dont copy the nonsense from other posters.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep


  41. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by CricketIsAwesome View Post
    It is actually the other way around and it seems like CT17 is living in the heads of quite a few delusional fans who have built their own alternative universe. Ayy time the two teams play or there is mention of a match between the two countires, they just can't seem to move past CT17.

    India & Pakisatn not playing each other for whatever reason is a blessing for the Pakistan team who would be crucified in almost every encounter. The Pakistan team can have all the pep talks from Imran, their team coach and whosoever but at the end of it all, it is still a crop of mediocre players, sorry "unpredictable, cornetred tigers" , who will be motivated enough and beatc any team including India "On their day".
    Mohd Amir performed well today but he is not a match winner any more and the Pakistan team cannot be expected to ride on his back alone or on other individual performances.
    I suggest you read the OP, who started it, an Indian fan.

    The entire media is referring to the CT17 as of this minute.

    So try not to pretend Indians have moved on from CT17.

  42. #122
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    but .. but FB & YT is awash with pak fans saying, "woh CT wala win tukka hi tha !!"

  43. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    Pakistan beat SL, SA, Eng and demolished India to win the CT. Look up the definition and dont copy the nonsense from other posters.
    You don't need to copy anything that is not only obvious but your own cricketing greats acknowledge as well.

  44. #124
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    Well not a fluke but a very brief purple patch...

    Junaid, Amir and of course Hasan were excellent in that tournament...even Raees and Faheem did a job...

    Form that none of these players have produced since...

    Amir turns up for tournaments while the other players have got progressively worse since the tournament ended...

    Not a fluke but an anomaly...

  45. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by CricketIsAwesome View Post
    You don't need to copy anything that is not only obvious but your own cricketing greats acknowledge as well.
    You will find the same greats in saying it was a brilliant performance on another day. Dont take pundits seriously either.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  46. #126
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    India's biggest problem is First timers. Even recent times first time Jhye Richardson picked 4fer. Johnson when he started his career picked 4fer. Recently Ashton turner was picked in the first match he won the match with a blinder. Fakhar was a first timer. If India has already seen a batsman once they won't allow them to get away that easily

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    I said it in the past, will repeat again, that CT fluke was the worst think happened to Pakistan cricket since the fixing trio.

  48. #128
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    Anyone still believes CT wasn't a fluke is either delusional or simply lying.

  49. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyperion66 View Post
    Anyone still believes CT wasn't a fluke is either delusional or simply lying.
    Please explain in detail why it was a fluke. It's not argument to say those who disagree are delusional when you have nothing to bring.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  50. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Technics 1210 View Post
    Virat mentioned CT17 final in post match interview; fluke, anomaly, what ever word you want to pick, it still hurts the nation.
    Yes it hurts, losing against minnows are always painful.

  51. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyperion66 View Post
    Yes it hurts, losing against minnows are always painful.
    Im sorry for your pain, head to head you have been hurt more, so please get some help.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  52. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    Please explain in detail why it was a fluke.
    I did, multiple times in fact , dig them sir if you have time, I don't.

  53. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyperion66 View Post
    Anyone still believes CT wasn't a fluke is either delusional or simply lying.
    Jeez. It's obvious you're still affected by it.

  54. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    Im sorry for your pain, head to head you have been hurt more, so please get some help.
    We were almost as pathetic as Pak is today during most of the 90s, so no head to head it doesn't hurt, we got what we deserved, simple.

  55. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronaldo7 View Post
    Jeez. It's obvious you're still affected by it.
    They won't admit it but it's true. Forget CT17, Miandad's 6 in the final of the Sharjah cup in 86 still haunts the elder generation of Indian fans.

  56. #136
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    "without beating the bush"




    کجھ شہر دے لوک وی ظالم سن
    کجھ مینوں مرن دا شوق وی سی

  57. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronaldo7 View Post
    Jeez. It's obvious you're still affected by it.
    Good to see you man. Commiserations.

    Yes, it is always painful losing to inferior teams, that loss against BD in 2007 still hurts.

  58. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draeoftroy View Post
    ROfl inferior yet its top order players need misfields and run out misses by Pakistan, apni auqaat makn reh kar baat karo.
    You should take your own advice. Its a fact that Pak team is inferior - can't be disputed after a WC scoreline that reads 7-0.

    Here is a drastic suggestion - may be the reason for your players misfielded was that they could not simply cope wth the pressure? They have never been good at it.

  59. #139
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    Not a fluke. You can't win 4 games in a row of which 3 are genuine top class teams. We beat England and India fair and square and the performance was a proof to that.
    If that's what you call a fluke, then apart from 75,79,03,07,11,15 all other victories were fluke. Does winning by fluke decreases its value. Certainly not.

    How it did harm our cricket was some of the performers during that tournament became egotistical and went over the moon and since have had trouble coming back down from there.

  60. #140
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    When the players from both teams can get along very nicely, why is it that fans are always fighting with each other?
    India won, congratulations to them. What's the use of being over aggressive here.

  61. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    You will find the same greats in saying it was a brilliant performance on another day. Dont take pundits seriously either.
    No you won't. Any level headed cricketer who understands the game would state the obvious. On the other hand, players who in their own minds are greats or legends or need to issue partisan statements across would ignore facts and spew any non-sense (aka Gambhir etc)

    Thankfully I don't consider either

  62. #142
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    they beat us fair and square.. it hurts coz we've played very well in that tourney only to have a complete shocker/bad day in the final..


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  63. #143
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    CT final showed even better side will struggle while batting second especially in a final. Wish India had lost that toss.

  64. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyperion66 View Post
    I did, multiple times in fact , dig them sir if you have time, I don't.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyperion66 View Post
    We were almost as pathetic as Pak is today during most of the 90s, so no head to head it doesn't hurt, we got what we deserved, simple.
    Quote Originally Posted by CricketIsAwesome View Post
    No you won't. Any level headed cricketer who understands the game would state the obvious. On the other hand, players who in their own minds are greats or legends or need to issue partisan statements across would ignore facts and spew any non-sense (aka Gambhir etc)

    Thankfully I don't consider either
    This was Akram after the CT final.

    Pakistan legend Wasim Akram on Twitter: "Wow, wow, wow - unbelievable performance by team green. It feels like deja vu after winning the 1992 World Cup. I am over the moon."

    Does he also believe the 92 win was a fluke and his bowling was a fluke or does he stand by his original comments after the win?

    Pundits are there for soundbites so they are in the spotlight, it helps their careers but are often contradicting each other.

    Cricket is a game played over 100 overs, you can't fluke even 51% of those overs to win a match. The better team wins an ODI.


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  65. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    This was Akram after the CT final.

    Pakistan legend Wasim Akram on Twitter: "Wow, wow, wow - unbelievable performance by team green. It feels like deja vu after winning the 1992 World Cup. I am over the moon."

    Does he also believe the 92 win was a fluke and his bowling was a fluke or does he stand by his original comments after the win?

    Pundits are there for soundbites so they are in the spotlight, it helps their careers but are often contradicting each other.

    Cricket is a game played over 100 overs, you can't fluke even 51% of those overs to win a match. The better team wins an ODI.
    Fluke is OTT in the context of Pakistan's CT success, because it implies the team was fortunate to have won, which wasn't the case. It was won on merit, courtesy of Fakhar, Hasan Ali and Amir.

    The CT win was an one-off - is the more accurate assessment, as epitomised by the change in fortunes of the two main stars (with Fakhar and Hasan Ali) back then and now.
    Last edited by topspin; 17th June 2019 at 03:28.

  66. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyperion66 View Post
    Good to see you man. Commiserations.

    Yes, it is always painful losing to inferior teams, that loss against BD in 2007 still hurts.
    Is winning 4 matches in a row (3 being against the top 3 teams) a fluke??
    If you think so then you're delusional.

  67. #147
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    CT win was an one-off, BUT NOTE this is not a synonymous with the term "fluke", which implies the team was lucky to win.

    Some of you need to improve your grasp of English. If it is not beyond working proficiency (or native like mine) just don't bother until you've had your lessons. This applies especially to @Hyperion66 .
    Last edited by topspin; 17th June 2019 at 03:32.

  68. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspin View Post
    Fluke is OTT in the context of Pakistan's CT success, because it implies the team was fortunate to have won, which wasn't the case. It was won on merit, courtesy of Fakhar, Hasan Ali and Amir.

    The CT win was an one-off - is the more accurate assessment, as epitomised by the change in fortunes of the two main stars (with Fakhar and Hasan Ali) back then and now.
    The CT tournament win from the Lanka game onwards was a moment in history where the lowest ranked team(in the tourny) defied huge odds against them to come from a low point and play some brilliant cricket to deserve their victory.

    Tournament wins are not easy but Pakistan every decade or so seem to get into finals and win some of them. This will always remain the case for Pakistan, they could win the next T20 tournanment too. Winning the tournament was a one off in terms of winning cricket series because the team can be very weak at times but even this weak team can turn up if they are commited and proffesional but these bunch dont seem to be.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  69. #149
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    Same conditions, same opposition. Pakistan will not win the Champions Trophy 99/100 times. That is my definition of fluke, and that is why I consider India's 1983 World Cup win and West Indies' 2004 Champions Trophy triumphs flukes as well.

    This doesn't mean that every time a favourite doesn't win it has to be a fluke. For example, had Pakistan won the 2011 World Cup or had South Africa or India won the 2015 World Cup, it wouldn't have been a fluke, but you need a lot of luck to win a tournament out of the blue when you are nowhere close to being favourites.

    Pakistan's 2017 Champions Trophy team would have lost a series to every team (excluding Sri Lanka and Bangladesh) in the competition in those conditions, but Pakistan won three successive matches against three better sides because everything went their way. It was something unique that will most likely never happen again, especially to Pakistan. Even against Sri Lanka, an inferior team, Pakistan completely bottled the game but luck favoured them again.

    Nevertheless, it was a fantastic triumph and our fans had every right to rejoice it because it will go down as one of the most memorable moments in Pakistan history. Fluke or not, the trophy is now in Pakistan's cabinet. However, the problem was that our fans looked too much into that success and became oblivious to the glaring shortcomings of the team. Their heads were in the clouds and they thought they were now invincible. This attitude rubbed onto the players as well, who got cocky.

    Our misplaced arrogance was particularly on display with respect to India. We were told that this new generation of Pakistani players, the PSL stars like Fakhar, Babar, Shadab, Hasan, Faheem as well as Sarfraz and Amir etc. will not fear India anymore, and the Champions Trophy will be another "Miandad six" moment, and how it will prove to be a turning moment in the Pakistan-India rivalry.

    All of those delusions were laid to rest in the Asia Cup, which was an extremely brutal reality check. It was a longsword that was plunged straight into our hearts. An Indian team without Kohli came to the UAE and completely demolished a full-strength Pakistan side in two matches. Players like Hasan, Fakhar etc. completely lost their confidence and the likes of Arthur and Sarfraz have never been the same since.

    That Asia Cup humiliation completely demoralised the psyche of Pakistan cricket and all the momentum from the Champions Trophy was blown into a million pieces. The fans on PP were also deeply humiliated because their arrogance leading up to the tournament was embarrassing.

    It was a terribly rude awakening, but we had it coming. We should have realised that winning the Champions Trophy didn't make us world beaters overnight. We were still an average side who had 3 great games against 3 better sides, and that was it. A few of us knew that the Champions Trophy wouldn't have any long-term implications and a reality check was coming for the deluded players and the fans, but no one cared to listen at that time.

  70. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Same conditions, same opposition. Pakistan will not win the Champions Trophy 99/100 times. That is my definition of fluke, and that is why I consider India's 1983 World Cup win and West Indies' 2004 Champions Trophy triumphs flukes as well.

    This doesn't mean that every time a favourite doesn't win it has to be a fluke. For example, had Pakistan won the 2011 World Cup or had South Africa or India won the 2015 World Cup, it wouldn't have been a fluke, but you need a lot of luck to win a tournament out of the blue when you are nowhere close to being favourites.

    Pakistan's 2017 Champions Trophy team would have lost a series to every team (excluding Sri Lanka and Bangladesh) in the competition in those conditions, but Pakistan won three successive matches against three better sides because everything went their way. It was something unique that will most likely never happen again, especially to Pakistan. Even against Sri Lanka, an inferior team, Pakistan completely bottled the game but luck favoured them again.

    Nevertheless, it was a fantastic triumph and our fans had every right to rejoice it because it will go down as one of the most memorable moments in Pakistan history. Fluke or not, the trophy is now in Pakistan's cabinet. However, the problem was that our fans looked too much into that success and became oblivious to the glaring shortcomings of the team. Their heads were in the clouds and they thought they were now invincible. This attitude rubbed onto the players as well, who got cocky.

    Our misplaced arrogance was particularly on display with respect to India. We were told that this new generation of Pakistani players, the PSL stars like Fakhar, Babar, Shadab, Hasan, Faheem as well as Sarfraz and Amir etc. will not fear India anymore, and the Champions Trophy will be another "Miandad six" moment, and how it will prove to be a turning moment in the Pakistan-India rivalry.

    All of those delusions were laid to rest in the Asia Cup, which was an extremely brutal reality check. It was a longsword that was plunged straight into our hearts. An Indian team without Kohli came to the UAE and completely demolished a full-strength Pakistan side in two matches. Players like Hasan, Fakhar etc. completely lost their confidence and the likes of Arthur and Sarfraz have never been the same since.

    That Asia Cup humiliation completely demoralised the psyche of Pakistan cricket and all the momentum from the Champions Trophy was blown into a million pieces. The fans on PP were also deeply humiliated because their arrogance leading up to the tournament was embarrassing.

    It was a terribly rude awakening, but we had it coming. We should have realised that winning the Champions Trophy didn't make us world beaters overnight. We were still an average side who had 3 great games against 3 better sides, and that was it. A few of us knew that the Champions Trophy wouldn't have any long-term implications and a reality check was coming for the deluded players and the fans, but no one cared to listen at that time.
    Again India beat Windies 2/3 times in that WC , and even Viv Richards acknowledged that they had a lot of self belief, and other thing is we also won the 1985 trophy, so 1983-1985 India was a very good ODI team.


    In cricket, my superhero is Sachin Tendulkar. He has always been my hero.
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  71. #151
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    Pakistan won 4 essentially knockout matches in a row to win the CT 2017.

    You cant fluke 4 wins over 100 overs each match.

    The team clicked, everyone was in form, conditions were favorable to Pakistani bowlers, morale was high. A lot of things went right, but that doesnt mean it was a fluke.

    It was hard fought, and Pakistan deserved to win as they played good cricket.

    But Pakistan has never been a consistent team. They come together to win a tournament, but it doesnt mean that they enter a golden period of cricket due to winning one cup. This in turn also doesnt mean that it was a fluke.

    The word fluke implies that it was an accident or a happy coincidence that Pakistan won the tournament rather than they played well.

  72. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaDed View Post
    Again India beat Windies 2/3 times in that WC , and even Viv Richards acknowledged that they had a lot of self belief, and other thing is we also won the 1985 trophy, so 1983-1985 India was a very good ODI team.
    That West Indies team blanked India 5-0 in India few months after the World Cup. In the 1985 Championship, India didn't play West Indies.

    That Indian team was definitely very good, but they were not better than West Indies. Beating them twice in the same tournament and defending 183 in the final was pure luck. It was a complete freak show. That West Indies team would have chased down 183 against any attack on any other day.

  73. #153
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    This thread will bumped next world Cup too.

  74. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    That West Indies team blanked India 5-0 in India few months after the World Cup. In the 1985 Championship, India didn't play West Indies.

    That Indian team was definitely very good, but they were not better than West Indies. Beating them twice in the same tournament and defending 183 in the final was pure luck. It was a complete freak show. That West Indies team would have chased down 183 against any attack on any other day.
    The best team in the world doesnt always win the tournament.

    Otherwise why even have a world cup, why not just give it to the best team in the world?

    Sometimes you can also have world class teams like South Africa in their prime and still lose.

    Other times you can have a team like Pakistan and come out the winners.

    We cant just give a fluke tag everytime a non-tournament favorite wins the cup....

  75. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    The CT tournament win from the Lanka game onwards was a moment in history where the lowest ranked team(in the tourny) defied huge odds against them to come from a low point and play some brilliant cricket to deserve their victory.

    Tournament wins are not easy but Pakistan every decade or so seem to get into finals and win some of them. This will always remain the case for Pakistan, they could win the next T20 tournanment too. Winning the tournament was a one off in terms of winning cricket series because the team can be very weak at times but even this weak team can turn up if they are commited and proffesional but these bunch dont seem to be.
    The problem is the gulf between the top 4 (ENAI) and Pakistan continues to widen and if the trend continues they will inevitably head towards minnow status. At this stage they will no longer be competitive but mere outsiders.

  76. #156
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    To the patriots of Pakistan, do not feed the trolls.

    Trying to convince fake patriots and dushman's of Pakistan that winning 4 KO games vs. top teams on the trot is not a fluke, is like trying to convince a blind man that the earth is not flat.

    The only reason Indians claim CT17 to be a fluke is because they were spanked in the final (that to convincingly) and calling it a fluke is a coping mechanism, and until India beat Pakistan in a World Cup final, CT17 will be etched in their living memories as the greatest defeat Pakistan bestowed on India in ICC tournament history.

  77. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince of Pakistan View Post
    It's funny how people bashes @Mamoon for two years and now everyone is suddenly claiming to be a genius and accepting how Pak got lucky with the circumstances.

    I guess dair ayi drust ayi?
    By that measure every Pak win was a fluke.

  78. #158
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    I don't think most of you are understanding the point being made here and jumping up and down about fluke or not fluke. Let's assume Bangladesh wins this WC, do you think 10/10 times they will win it? Hardly. They can have good games, also opponents might have bad games, weather may play a role, etc. 9/10 times, they won't win the cup if it is repeted. Consider England in this scenerio in their current form, possibilities are high that 8-9/10 times they might win the cup.

    Same thing with PAK and CT. Peaked at the right time, other teams had bad games at the wrong time, certain players were high on confidence, etc. However, if CT was repeted 10 times, it would be highly unlikely that PAK will win it all the time. It would be in the lower end spectrum. Higher end would be england/india to name a few.

    However, win is a win, regardless of how it came. CT was rightfuly pak's trophy by beating all others.

  79. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackanhyellow View Post
    The best team in the world doesnt always win the tournament.

    Otherwise why even have a world cup, why not just give it to the best team in the world?

    Sometimes you can also have world class teams like South Africa in their prime and still lose.

    Other times you can have a team like Pakistan and come out the winners.

    We cant just give a fluke tag everytime a non-tournament favorite wins the cup....
    As I explained in post #149, every time a non-favourite wins the World Cup it doesn't mean that it is a fluke, but when teams like India (1983), West Indies (2004) and Pakistan (2017) win tournaments, there is a significant amount of luck and freakish events involved.

  80. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by light View Post
    I don't think most of you are understanding the point being made here and jumping up and down about fluke or not fluke. Let's assume Bangladesh wins this WC, do you think 10/10 times they will win it? Hardly. They can have good games, also opponents might have bad games, weather may play a role, etc. 9/10 times, they won't win the cup if it is repeted. Consider England in this scenerio in their current form, possibilities are high that 8-9/10 times they might win the cup.

    Same thing with PAK and CT. Peaked at the right time, other teams had bad games at the wrong time, certain players were high on confidence, etc. However, if CT was repeted 10 times, it would be highly unlikely that PAK will win it all the time. It would be in the lower end spectrum. Higher end would be england/india to name a few.

    However, win is a win, regardless of how it came. CT was rightfuly pak's trophy by beating all others.
    This is what I am attempting to explain. It is not even about luck - every team that wins a tournaments needs a bit of luck, but it is about the probability of replicating those events in the same conditions/circumstances.

    For e.g., India did get lucky at times in the 2011 World Cup, but I can say with confidence that in those subcontinent conditions, that Indian team would win the World Cup more often than not. Hence, although they got a bit lucky, their triumph wasn't a fluke. Same goes for Australia winning in 2015.


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