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  1. #1
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    Pakistan plays only 4 specialist batsmen in its XI

    Fakhar Zamaan
    Imam
    Babar Azam
    Malik

    These are the four specialist batsmen which Pakistan plays with. How do we expect to score any decent total with just 4 specialist batsmen? Do we expect the likes of Sarfaraz (wicket keeper) , Shadab (spinner) , Nawaz (spinner) , Asif (lower order striker who averages 20 odd in LA cricket) and bowlers to score runs for Pakistan? Occassionally we throw in Faheem in there or if we are in the mood, we play Haris as the 5th batsman. Ridiculous stuff from Team management and one big mistake in my opinion. You need specialist batsmen especially when your batting is useless.

  2. #2
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    They passed yo yo test we don’t compromise on fitness . Fitness first skill later


    New Era of Team Pakistan

  3. #3
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    I've just mentioned this in the match thread. The balance of the team is asking for trouble.

    Batsmen like Fakhar enjoy pace on the ball but when the ball is stopping and not easily coming onto the bat like we see in UAE he doesn't have a plan B.

    You have a non-performing captain occupying a key middle order spot, whilst Babar has done little of note against top teams since his international debut. Asif Ali is a powerful hitter but lacks ability to construct long innings in ODIs and seems better suited to short bursts in T20 cricket.

    So effectively a historically weak batting team like Pakistan is playing with four specialist batsman - two are out of form !

    Meanwhile we have not a single specialist spinner in the squad and are relying on two all-rounders in Shadab and Nawaz who are not matchwinners with the ball. This means in every match of this tournament we're one specialist batsman and one spinner short !

  4. #4
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    I am a firm believer that bits and pieces cricketers are not suitable for ODI or test matches (they may get away in T20). We should only call someone an all rounder if they can get into the team purely on their batting abilities as well as merit to be in the team purely as a pure bowler. In pak team none of the so called all rounders are good enough as either.


    You have indeed in the Messenger of Allah an excellent example. (TMQ - 33:21)

  5. #5
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    Only 3 tbh, Malik isn't a specialist, he's a good decent bat but not a specialist imo, started his career as a bowler who could bat a little and is now a batting allrounder.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahmed16 View Post
    Only 3 tbh, Malik isn't a specialist, he's a good decent bat but not a specialist imo, started his career as a bowler who could bat a little and is now a batting allrounder.
    lol. If you going to be this critical, then of the remaining 3, one is used as a hitter to give quick starts (does not have a great technique) and another (Imam) is still to establish imselve (jury is out on him), leaving only one proper batsman in the team.


    You have indeed in the Messenger of Allah an excellent example. (TMQ - 33:21)

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by wazzy View Post
    lol. If you going to be this critical, then of the remaining 3, one is used as a hitter to give quick starts (does not have a great technique) and another (Imam) is still to establish imselve (jury is out on him), leaving only one proper batsman in the team.
    Agreed

  8. #8
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    Bring back Hafeez. He always brought perfect ballance to the team.
    Imam
    Fakhar
    Babar
    Sarfraz
    Malik
    Hafeez
    Faheem/shadab
    Z.Gohar (specialist spinner)
    Hasan
    Junaid
    Shaheen

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    I've just mentioned this in the match thread. The balance of the team is asking for trouble.

    Batsmen like Fakhar enjoy pace on the ball but when the ball is stopping and not easily coming onto the bat like we see in UAE he doesn't have a plan B.

    You have a non-performing captain occupying a key middle order spot, whilst Babar has done little of note against top teams since his international debut. Asif Ali is a powerful hitter but lacks ability to construct long innings in ODIs and seems better suited to short bursts in T20 cricket.

    So effectively a historically weak batting team like Pakistan is playing with four specialist batsman - two are out of form !

    Meanwhile we have not a single specialist spinner in the squad and are relying on two all-rounders in Shadab and Nawaz who are not matchwinners with the ball. This means in every match of this tournament we're one specialist batsman and one spinner short !
    Well this Asia cup has been a massive debacle. Pakistan barely beat Afghanistan who was the only decent team they did beat. The selection policy of picking so many all rounders needs to be looked at very strongly. You already dont have the talent in batting and after that you dont pick enough batsmen. What craziness is this

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asif321 View Post
    They passed yo yo test we donít compromise on fitness . Fitness first skill later
    Stupid comment.

    Fitness is a minimum but not sufficient condition to success. What's hard to understand about that?

  11. #11
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    Other teams have non specialist batsmen who are 10 times better than the so called specialist batsmen we are playing today.

    Pakistan is still playing a very out dated brand of cricket and we keep on continuously investing in the wrong players. The rest of the top 5 teams had moved on to a different brand of cricket a long time back while we still are stuck in the 90's.

    Mickey Arthur has been a complete waste of time and has wasted a golden opportunity to make a difference.

  12. #12
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    It all depends what you mean by 'specialist' - just checked in my son's school dictionary and part of the definition says : "a person highly skilled in a specific and restricted field."

    Not sure any Pakistani batsmen around today qualify under that definition


    "Lack of Form is Temporary, Lack of Class is Permanent" -- dedicated to The Honorable Professor.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majid Khan View Post
    It all depends what you mean by 'specialist' - just checked in my son's school dictionary and part of the definition says : "a person highly skilled in a specific and restricted field."

    Not sure any Pakistani batsmen around today qualify under that definition
    Its true. But at least they should look to find batsmen who have both gears. Like a Rohit Sharma who can play slow or fast as per situation. We either have slow batsmen or asif ali.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    Other teams have non specialist batsmen who are 10 times better than the so called specialist batsmen we are playing today.

    Pakistan is still playing a very out dated brand of cricket and we keep on continuously investing in the wrong players. The rest of the top 5 teams had moved on to a different brand of cricket a long time back while we still are stuck in the 90's.

    Mickey Arthur has been a complete waste of time and has wasted a golden opportunity to make a difference.
    I wonder if Pakistan can do a west Indies and build a team like Clive Lloyd did with tall fast bowlers who put fear of God in Batsmen's hearts. And also a few decent batsmen.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madplayer View Post
    I wonder if Pakistan can do a west Indies and build a team like Clive Lloyd did with tall fast bowlers who put fear of God in Batsmen's hearts. And also a few decent batsmen.
    To be really frank, the great West Indies team had a powerful batting line up as well. They were not all bowling. Greenidge, Haynes, Richards, Clive himself, Kalicharan, Larry Gomes, Jeff Dujon et all were very good players, followed by 4 fearsome fast bowlers. If you don't have the combination of both, you cannot build a world beating side.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by giri26 View Post
    To be really frank, the great West Indies team had a powerful batting line up as well. They were not all bowling. Greenidge, Haynes, Richards, Clive himself, Kalicharan, Larry Gomes, Jeff Dujon et all were very good players, followed by 4 fearsome fast bowlers. If you don't have the combination of both, you cannot build a world beating side.
    True. Batting needs to be looked at. And hence this thread. Pakistan's batting is already so weak and after that they arent playing enough specialist batsmen in the team. Its a recipie for disaster.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madplayer View Post
    Fakhar Zamaan ( Correction - a proper TULLER)
    Imam
    Babar Azam
    Malik

    These are the four specialist batsmen which Pakistan plays with. How do we expect to score any decent total with just 4 specialist batsmen? Do we expect the likes of Sarfaraz (wicket keeper) , Shadab (spinner) , Nawaz (spinner) , Asif (lower order striker who averages 20 odd in LA cricket) and bowlers to score runs for Pakistan? Occassionally we throw in Faheem in there or if we are in the mood, we play Haris as the 5th batsman. Ridiculous stuff from Team management and one big mistake in my opinion. You need specialist batsmen especially when your batting is useless.
    Correction


    Yesterday is the past.Tomorrow is the future.Today is a gift.That's why it's called the "present"

  18. #18
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    They need to find solid bats for number 4 and 5


    only fighters rise up from the dust..

  19. #19
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    Haris should be given a proper run at 4. Also, we need middle order batsmen who can also score quickly. The idea that guys who can bat long at 80 SR will occupy the middle order and then having an Asif Ali come at the end to accelerate the innings can't get you match winning totals every time.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madplayer View Post
    Fakhar Zamaan
    Imam
    Babar Azam

    Malik

    These are the four specialist batsmen which Pakistan plays with. How do we expect to score any decent total with just 4 specialist batsmen? Do we expect the likes of Sarfaraz (wicket keeper) , Shadab (spinner) , Nawaz (spinner) , Asif (lower order striker who averages 20 odd in LA cricket) and bowlers to score runs for Pakistan? Occassionally we throw in Faheem in there or if we are in the mood, we play Haris as the 5th batsman. Ridiculous stuff from Team management and one big mistake in my opinion. You need specialist batsmen especially when your batting is useless.
    Three are minnow bashers and Damaad-e-Hind is an India basher! Who is a real batsman?

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderwoman View Post
    Three are minnow bashers and Damaad-e-Hind is an India basher! Who is a real batsman?
    Minnow basher or India basher or any basher, the point is only 4 are specialist batsmen. Which is too low a number for a poor batting side.

  22. #22
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    Looks like we will repeat the same mistake vs South Africa. What is about insanity being repeating the same failed experiment time and again ?

    I suspect we will go with Fakhar, Imam, Babar, Hafeez, Malik, Sarfraz, Imad/Shadab and Faheem as our top 8.

    That means three specialist batsmen with the rest being all-rounders of one variety or another. Three specialist batsmen for a historically weak batting lineup like Pakistan against a strong South African bowling attack - what's the worst that can happen ?!

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majid Khan View Post
    It all depends what you mean by 'specialist' - just checked in my son's school dictionary and part of the definition says : "a person highly skilled in a specific and restricted field."

    Not sure any Pakistani batsmen around today qualify under that definition
    Your forget Hafeez who is blessed in all Facets of the game (Highly skilled ;) ) - Supreme specialist.

  24. #24
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    The lack of batsman and that middle order batsman in our team is scarce. Are guys like Saud Shakeel, Hammad Azam, Khushdil Shah, Zeeshan Malik and Ali Imran not good enough to be considered. Like what!!

    I wonder if we will see any changes to the ODI setup once Malik and Hafeez are gone.
    Last edited by Zeeraq; 10th January 2019 at 18:58.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeymurBlake View Post
    The lack of batsman and that middle order batsman in our team is scarce. Are guys like Saud Shakeel, Hammad Azam, Khushdil Shah, Zeeshan Malik and Ali Imran not good enough to be considered. Like what!!

    I wonder if we will see any changes to the ODI setup once Malik and Hafeez are gone.
    Hammad Azam is really not international material.
    Last edited by Zeeraq; 10th January 2019 at 18:58.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    Looks like we will repeat the same mistake vs South Africa. What is about insanity being repeating the same failed experiment time and again ?

    I suspect we will go with Fakhar, Imam, Babar, Hafeez, Malik, Sarfraz, Imad/Shadab and Faheem as our top 8.

    That means three specialist batsmen with the rest being all-rounders of one variety or another. Three specialist batsmen for a historically weak batting lineup like Pakistan against a strong South African bowling attack - what's the worst that can happen ?!
    This is insanity. Illogical beyond words.
    You are weak in batting already and you are acting oversmart by picking "all rounders" instead of specialist batsmen. Madness.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madplayer View Post
    This is insanity. Illogical beyond words.
    You are weak in batting already and you are acting oversmart by picking "all rounders" instead of specialist batsmen. Madness.
    Expect 60-5 70-6 type scores in the series unless the wickets are flat where are the middle order batsmen Umar Akmal Saud Shakeel Saad Ali etc instead we have all rounders in Imad Talat Shadab Faheem Hafeez looks a misbalanced disjointed squad overall.

  28. #28
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    Putting Hafeez and Malik in the middle order which are critical positions is insane. Not only are they not batting specialists but they're ancient as well.

    I think Malik can make the team on merit and play at 6 but you can't accommodate both of them.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kroll View Post
    Putting Hafeez and Malik in the middle order which are critical positions is insane. Not only are they not batting specialists but they're ancient as well.

    I think Malik can make the team on merit and play at 6 but you can't accommodate both of them.
    Malik has improved but they were never great especially against the top teams now it's a given they will fail only on flat wickets can they score in this series.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    I've just mentioned this in the match thread. The balance of the team is asking for trouble.

    Batsmen like Fakhar enjoy pace on the ball but when the ball is stopping and not easily coming onto the bat like we see in UAE he doesn't have a plan B.

    You have a non-performing captain occupying a key middle order spot, whilst Babar has done little of note against top teams since his international debut. Asif Ali is a powerful hitter but lacks ability to construct long innings in ODIs and seems better suited to short bursts in T20 cricket.
    Bhai how much do you want Babar to do by himself?

    Average of 56 against Australia. (All in Australia).
    Average of 37 against England. (38* in CT Semi).
    Average of 27 against India. (One run out, two scores of 46 and 47).
    Average of 31 against New Zealand. (Last scores being 46 and 92).
    Average of 31* against South Africa. (Averaging 37.75 in the tests currently).

    He is improving day by day, he is only 24!

  31. #31
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    Well Abbas is almost half way there to becoming a specialist batsman for Pakistan ó really hope he gets to 25, the quarter century landmark that very few Pakistani batsmen get to against South Africa or Australia.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majid Khan View Post
    Well Abbas is almost half way there to becoming a specialist batsman for Pakistan — really hope he gets to 25, the quarter century landmark that very few Pakistani batsmen get to against South Africa or Australia.
    I love reading your posts, they crack me up. You are one of my favourite posters bro

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by hadi123 View Post
    I love reading your posts, they crack me up. You are one of my favourite posters bro
    Thank you Sir, well that gives me a reason to carry on then as Iím not feeling as comfortable on Pakpassion these days with there being a Pakistan tour to SA and not a single thread about Hafeez on the front page.. Iím almost feeling like Iím redundant and have nothing to do here anymore but then Azhar Ali, Asad and Sarfraz could be my next targets now that Hafeez is gone, just can not stand mediocre seniors.

  34. #34
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    Babar being set up for the nip backer by vern


    If you always do what you have always done, you will always get what you always got #improve

  35. #35
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    #4-6: Malik, Hafeez, Sarfaraz


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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah719 View Post
    #4-6: Malik, Hafeez, Sarfaraz
    7-9 Imad Shadab Faheem

  37. #37
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    Sarf continues to select he’s buddies

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    Mind boggling approach this.

  39. #39
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    No Shaheen. No in form Rizwan & Shan. Mashallah, great selection strategy.

  40. #40
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    Three specialist batsmen today - Fakhar, Imam and Babar.

    Bits and pieces strategy fails again.


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    A tail that starts at after number 4 in ODIs

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    Poor team selection as usual. Insecure captain keeping inform Rizwan out

    Rizwan should have played today instead of Talat.

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    This approach will never work. You need the top 3 of Kohli, Dhawan and Rohit to make this strategy work. Pakistan doesnt have that kind of class in batting so this approach will fail more often than not.

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    They dont have anymore proper batsman in the team but I would have played Shan and obviously Harris is out.

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    Malik is not a proper batsman. He too is an allrounder.

    We play with three specialise batsmen

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    We will win only ocassionally if you fill the team with bowlers only.

    Having 10 bowlers in last ten overs when bowling is completely useless but having ten batsman in last ten overs means you can score more runs.

    The whole point of playing all rounders is that it allows you to play more batsmen

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    Imam, Fakhar, Babar (only REAL batsmen)

    Hafeez, Malik (previously were all rounders, just because they dont bowl much now doesnt mean they suddenly became frontline batsmen)

    Rizwan (Wicket keeper)

    Shadab, Imad (all rounders)

    Bowlers.


    3 proper batsmen will NEVER win you games consistently.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madplayer View Post
    Imam, Fakhar, Babar (only REAL batsmen)

    Hafeez, Malik (previously were all rounders, just because they dont bowl much now doesnt mean they suddenly became frontline batsmen)

    Rizwan (Wicket keeper)

    Shadab, Imad (all rounders)

    Bowlers.


    3 proper batsmen will NEVER win you games consistently.
    Agree 100%. been saying the same in many of the other threads, although I would say Hafeez is as much of a specialist batsman as any of his replacements are likely to be. He was initially picked for Pakistan as a batsman, his bowling only really became a feature afterwards. Malik is a no 7, should never be coming in higher than that. Same goes for Sarfraz really. He's usually good for a few quick runs, but can always get out at any time because he doesn't know how to construct a big innings.


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

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    Most teams do cos everybody tries to have 6 bowling options plus one wicket keeper=7
    That leaves 4 batting spots


    If you always do what you have always done, you will always get what you always got #improve

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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah View Post
    Most teams do cos everybody tries to have 6 bowling options plus one wicket keeper=7
    That leaves 4 batting spots
    Lets see the Indian line up
    Dhawan
    Rohit
    Kohli
    Gill
    Rayudu
    Jadhav
    Karthic (wkb)
    Pandya
    Bowlers.


    6 proper front line batsmen. A couple of them can roll their arm over but they are selected in the team as batsmen, not allrounders.

    Then you have reliable wk batsmen in Karthic or Dhoni.

    Finally you have another reliable batting all rounder in Pandya.

    The entire approach to top 8 is batting centric. And their success should be no surprise.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madplayer View Post
    Lets see the Indian line up
    Dhawan
    Rohit
    Kohli
    Gill
    Rayudu
    Jadhav
    Karthic (wkb)
    Pandya
    Bowlers.


    6 proper front line batsmen. A couple of them can roll their arm over but they are selected in the team as batsmen, not allrounders.

    Then you have reliable wk batsmen in Karthic or Dhoni.

    Finally you have another reliable batting all rounder in Pandya.

    The entire approach to top 8 is batting centric. And their success should be no surprise.
    Madplayer what are you on.
    How do u get
    Bunrah
    shami
    chahal
    Kuldeep

    Into the above ?? Let alone bhuvi?? That's 13 players all together??


    If you always do what you have always done, you will always get what you always got #improve

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah View Post
    Madplayer what are you on.
    How do u get
    Bunrah
    shami
    chahal
    Kuldeep

    Into the above ?? Let alone bhuvi?? That's 13 players all together??
    The line up i mentioned was the one that played today

    https://www.google.com/search?q=nz+v...1q23;dt;fp;1;;

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madplayer View Post
    The line up i mentioned was the one that played today

    https://www.google.com/search?q=nz+v...1q23;dt;fp;1;;
    And they still hot out for 92!!
    Actually Kohli didn't play today, and today was dead rubber. Think logically about it. If they play the team u mentuoned they need kwdhar to bowl 10 overs. That isn't happening


    If you always do what you have always done, you will always get what you always got #improve

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah View Post
    Most teams do cos everybody tries to have 6 bowling options plus one wicket keeper=7
    That leaves 4 batting spots
    That might be possible if you have four top class batsmen, but when your top four includes Zaman and Hafeez, you are taking a big risk.


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah View Post
    And they still hot out for 92!!
    Actually Kohli didn't play today, and today was dead rubber. Think logically about it. If they play the team u mentuoned they need kwdhar to bowl 10 overs. That isn't happening
    Yes sorry i put kohli in there as well. Anyway, the top 7 still will be batting centric with at least 5 specialist batsmen. Even if you remove 1 batsman from there it makes little difference.
    And please dont mention that they got shot out for 92 because you know the scores they have put up in last few years. Today was an aberration.

    And what is Pakistan's approach? 3 specialist batsmen and even they are barely decent.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madplayer View Post
    Fakhar Zamaan
    Imam
    Babar Azam
    Malik

    These are the four specialist batsmen which Pakistan plays with. How do we expect to score any decent total with just 4 specialist batsmen? Do we expect the likes of Sarfaraz (wicket keeper) , Shadab (spinner) , Nawaz (spinner) , Asif (lower order striker who averages 20 odd in LA cricket) and bowlers to score runs for Pakistan? Occassionally we throw in Faheem in there or if we are in the mood, we play Haris as the 5th batsman. Ridiculous stuff from Team management and one big mistake in my opinion. You need specialist batsmen especially when your batting is useless.
    And which international class "specialist" batsman should Pakistan play in addition to these?

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banter View Post
    And which international class "specialist" batsman should Pakistan play in addition to these?
    I dont know.
    Are you saying Pakistan has no batsmen better than the likes of Hafeez, Malik, Faheem etc?

  58. #58
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    I wonder why Shan wasn't picked in the side, even though he meritted more selection in ODIs than in Tests.


    The unfortunate part is that Shan is earmarked as an opening batsman or max one-down and all three spots seem to be locked for Pakistan now all the way upto the WC. He could come in at 4, but then Prof's ego will come in the way. I hope they try Shan out at number 5, but then we will be playing him severely out of position and setting him up for failure. However, he can't do as bad as Malik/Sarfaraz.


    It is kind of unfortunate in a way that the SA series went all the way to the last match and all the changes were kind of forced and the team could not experiment with different combinations.


    #Hum apko container deingaye dharnay ke liyay

  59. #59
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    Its too late for the world cup

    If Imam and Babar can score runs why not give youngsters a chance after WC. There is no guarantee of replicating the success but try trial and error. Its important we move away from Malik and Hafeez. We will never be a competitive team with these two

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madplayer View Post
    I dont know.
    Are you saying Pakistan has no batsmen better than the likes of Hafeez, Malik, Faheem etc?
    I don't follow Pakistan fringe players, you tell me.

  61. #61
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    There seems to be a fascination with bits and pieces players - players who rarely do much and don't have the skills to win matches.



  62. #62
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    @Madplayer

    Allrounder INFECTION has spread to our bowling.

    Just two specialist bowlers today albeit Imad is an excellent T20 spinner.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    @Madplayer

    Allrounder INFECTION has spread to our bowling.

    Just two specialist bowlers today albeit Imad is an excellent T20 spinner.
    They were clearly 1 fast bowler short today. These kind of tactics are really risky. They have managed to pull things back a bit in last few overs. Lets see how it goes.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saj View Post
    There seems to be a fascination with bits and pieces players - players who rarely do much and don't have the skills to win matches.
    The teams full of them today Ive counted 2-3 proper batsmen today The rest can hardly bat


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