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  1. #1
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    In an all-time ODI XI, at least three and as many as five players would be Indians

    Sachin, Kohli and MSD are certainties in the X1. Decent cases can be made for Kapil Dev (although I would not pick him - better bowlers and sloggers exist) and Rohit Sharma.

    Sharma has emerged as a monstrous ODI player. No batsman has scored massive hundreds with the frequency at which he does. Given that ODIs are uniformly played on flat decks, he has all surface insurance. On a good deck, he is the most devastating opener I have seen.

    So, potentially,

    SRT
    Rohit
    VK
    -
    -
    MSD
    Kapil
    -
    -
    -
    -

    Insane progress since the start of the 21st century.

  2. #2
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    Rohit won't be a candidate for an all time XIs.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffet View Post
    Rohit won't be a candidate for an all time XIs.
    I am no longer sure. His mammoth scores at such regularity make him a candidate. He is 1 good WC away from being a top tier candidate.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffet View Post
    Rohit won't be a candidate for an all time XIs.
    He'd be in conversation if he monsters the WC19 and retires with close to 10K runs.

  5. #5
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    Only Sachin and Kohli. Dhoni can be easily replaced with Gilchrist.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhaag Viru Bhaag View Post
    Only Sachin and Kohli. Dhoni can be easily replaced with Gilchrist.
    Yes those 2 are absolute locks. MSD is a very good candidate (him or AG for sure take the wkt slot). Dev and Sharma are also in the running.

  7. #7
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    Sachin Tendulkar
    Sanath Jayasuriya
    Ricky Ponting*
    Virat Kohli
    AB De Villiers
    MS Dhoni+
    Lance Klusener
    Shahid Afridi
    Wasim Akram
    Waqar Younis
    Saqlain Mushtaq

    Actually more Pakistanis than Indians

  8. #8
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    Coincidentally WRT Pakistan, Wasim is an absolute lock. Imran can be argued given his allround ability (as a proper top order bat as not just a slogger alongside being an ATG fast bowler), Waqar at his pomp was the most destructive quick I have ever seen and Saqlain has a wizard.

    Personally, I would pick Wasim. Imran depending on the composition.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rayyman View Post
    Sachin Tendulkar
    Sanath Jayasuriya
    Ricky Ponting*
    Virat Kohli
    AB De Villiers
    MS Dhoni+
    Lance Klusener
    Shahid Afridi
    Wasim Akram
    Waqar Younis
    Saqlain Mushtaq

    Actually more Pakistanis than Indians



    Please don't be bias.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by AMSS View Post
    He'd be in conversation if he monsters the WC19 and retires with close to 10K runs.
    This. His feats are such that he must be afforded his due worth.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhaag Viru Bhaag View Post
    Only Sachin and Kohli. Dhoni can be easily replaced with Gilchrist.
    Absolutely no way. There are 10 other batsman who can replace Gilchrist at the top.

    There is absolutely no one above Dhoni when it comes to batting at number 6.

    It's not for nothing that he is the only batsmen ever to have scored 10k runs by mostly batting outside of the top 4.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_outsider View Post
    Absolutely no way. There are 10 other batsman who can replace Gilchrist at the top.

    There is absolutely no one above Dhoni when it comes to batting at number 6.

    It's not for nothing that he is the only batsmen ever to have scored 10k runs by mostly batting outside of the top 4.
    Yeah MSD is an ODI titan. Gilly has the advantage of being an opener but MSD as a finisher and man manager was simply superb. For me, 3 Indians are locks.

  13. #13
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    Someone who is really underrated as an ODI opener is Saurav Ganguly. I don't know if he makes it to the final XI but he is definitely in contention.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rayyman View Post
    Sachin Tendulkar
    Sanath Jayasuriya
    Ricky Ponting*
    Virat Kohli
    AB De Villiers
    MS Dhoni+
    Lance Klusener
    Shahid Afridi
    Wasim Akram
    Waqar Younis
    Saqlain Mushtaq

    Actually more Pakistanis than Indians
    This was more hilarious than Pakistan's performance in the Asia cup.

  15. #15
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    Other certainties include IVA Richards.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rahul1 View Post
    This was more hilarious than Pakistan's performance in the Asia cup.
    Yes, that post was just sad.

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    Rohit and Kapil will definitely not be in contention of an all-time ODI XI. Rohit does not even make India's all-time XI.

    Dhoni is 50-50, some pick him but others don't. Even Virat Kohli is not a given since many would prefer someone like Ricky Ponting, who has shined his brightest at the biggest stage while Kohli is a choker.

    Pakistan, Windies and South Africa probably have as many representatives as India in an all-time ODI XI. Australia have far more.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by bujhee kom View Post
    Yeah MSD is an ODI titan. Gilly has the advantage of being an opener but MSD as a finisher and man manager was simply superb. For me, 3 Indians are locks.
    Yeah. I agree with your 3 choices. Sachin, Dhoni and Kohli are lock-ins.

    Rohit Sharma is potentially an ODI ATG but not yet. Maybe in another 3 years.

    Kapil's spot is probably a toss-up between himself and Imran Khan. I suppose there isn't a lot to choose between the two.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    Rohit and Kapil will definitely not be in contention of an all-time ODI XI. Rohit does not even make India's all-time XI.

    Dhoni is 50-50, some pick him but others don't. Even Virat Kohli is not a given since many would prefer someone like Ricky Ponting, who has shined his brightest at the biggest stage while Kohli is a choker.

    Pakistan, Windies and South Africa probably have as many representatives as India in an all-time ODI XI. Australia have far more.
    I disagree. Obviously Australia have been the best team but when picking AT X1's, individual brilliance can mean that the best actual side need not have the most representatives. They just had a narrow spread shifted towards excellence than away from it.

    For the WI (whom I adore as a cricketing nation), IVA is obviously the best ever. Lara has a good case, Ambrose, Holding, Garner. Haynes?

  20. #20
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    Pakistanis that might get in an all-time ODI XI: Wasim, Waqar, Saqlain and Imran. With Saeed Ajmal and Inzamam ul Haq being honorable mentions and far better players than Rohit.


  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_outsider View Post
    Yeah. I agree with your 3 choices. Sachin, Dhoni and Kohli are lock-ins.

    Rohit Sharma is potentially an ODI ATG but not yet. Maybe in another 3 years.

    Kapil's spot is probably a toss-up between himself and Imran Khan. I suppose there isn't a lot to choose between the two.
    Quite a few more AR than those 2 in ODIs to pick from. Truth be told, Imran was a much more rounded batsman but lacked Kapil's explosive hitting. As a bowler, irrespective of stats, Imran was much more menacing. That said, one could opt for Kallis, Watson etc (many options) depending on where you wanted to fit them into the side.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by bujhee kom View Post
    I disagree. Obviously Australia have been the best team but when picking AT X1's, individual brilliance can mean that the best actual side need not have the most representatives. They just had a narrow spread shifted towards excellence than away from it.

    For the WI (whom I adore as a cricketing nation), IVA is obviously the best ever. Lara has a good case, Ambrose, Holding, Garner. Haynes?
    Australia do have the most reps though. Gilly, Ponting, Warne, McGrath, Bevan and even Starc are all in the conversation.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    Pakistanis that might get in an all-time ODI XI: Wasim, Waqar, Saqlain and Imran. With Saeed Ajmal and Inzamam ul Haq being honorable mentions and far better players than Rohit.
    Yes, those first 4 may well get in.

    Wasim is a lock. Imran a very strong contender. The other 2 - in the discussion.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    Pakistan, Windies and South Africa probably have as many representatives as India in an all-time ODI XI. Australia have far more.
    Apart from Wasim there isn't a single Pakistani cricketer who definitely makes it into the XI.

    IK is debatable because it's a choice between Imran and Kapil and there is no wrong choice there.

    So, undisputedly, only 1 Pak player makes the XI.

  25. #25
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    Tendu
    Universe Boss over Warner
    Kallis
    Richards (C)
    Virat
    Ponting
    AB De V
    Sanga over Gilchrist
    Wasim
    Murali
    Waqar
    McGrath

    So only two should be in.


    Forgive when you are on top. Don't you want to be forgiven?

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by bujhee kom View Post
    Quite a few more AR than those 2 in ODIs to pick from. Truth be told, Imran was a much more rounded batsman but lacked Kapil's explosive hitting. As a bowler, irrespective of stats, Imran was much more menacing. That said, one could opt for Kallis, Watson etc (many options) depending on where you wanted to fit them into the side.
    You're forgetting that Imran was a legendary captain as well, which makes him the best all-rounder to pick. He has also played a match-winning innings in a World Cup final, something that many of the batsmen being mentioned here have not been able to do.

  27. #27
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    Another way of looking at it: who are the ABSOLUTE LOCKS.

    Sachin
    Richards
    Wasim
    Kohli


    Those 4 are surely beyond doubt now.

  28. #28
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    Tendu
    Universe Boss over Warner
    Kallis
    Richards (C)
    Virat
    Ponting
    AB De V
    Sanga over Gilchrist
    Wasim
    Murali
    McGrath

    So only two should be in.


    Forgive when you are on top. Don't you want to be forgiven?

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by bujhee kom View Post
    Quite a few more AR than those 2 in ODIs to pick from. Truth be told, Imran was a much more rounded batsman but lacked Kapil's explosive hitting. As a bowler, irrespective of stats, Imran was much more menacing. That said, one could opt for Kallis, Watson etc (many options) depending on where you wanted to fit them into the side.
    Kallis? Definitely. If you're going for a batting AR then Kallis over both Kapil and IK. If you want a bowling AR, then Kallis is the wrong choice.

    Watson? No I don't think he should be in contention. Because Watson's direct competition are people like Kallis, Klusener and Flintoff who are all better options.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    You're forgetting that Imran was a legendary captain as well, which makes him the best all-rounder to pick. He has also played a match-winning innings in a World Cup final, something that many of the batsmen being mentioned here have not been able to do.
    You don't have to convince me WRT Imran Khan. I saw him live, I grew up watching the man. He is the best cricketer of the modern era for me. Alongside Viv Richards. But that is rooted more in his test exploits. In ODIs, he remains top draw but the conversation is wider.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by bujhee kom View Post
    Yes, those first 4 may well get in.

    Wasim is a lock. Imran a very strong contender. The other 2 - in the discussion.
    Saqlain is just as strong a contender as Imran. The only two that can be picked over him are Murali and Warne but Saqlain can just as easily be picked over them.

    Quote Originally Posted by the_outsider View Post
    Apart from Wasim there isn't a single Pakistani cricketer who definitely makes it into the XI.

    IK is debatable because it's a choice between Imran and Kapil and there is no wrong choice there.

    So, undisputedly, only 1 Pak player makes the XI.
    Yes, just like only one Indian undisputedly makes the XI. There are only a handful of such players: Sachin, Wasim, Viv and McGrath. That is it

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_outsider View Post
    Apart from Wasim there isn't a single Pakistani cricketer who definitely makes it into the XI.

    IK is debatable because it's a choice between Imran and Kapil and there is no wrong choice there.

    So, undisputedly, only 1 Pak player makes the XI.
    Lol.

    Nobody in the world would even think of Kapil when it's Imran on the other hand. Be neutral.

    Wasim, Imran are 100% certain.

    Kohli, Sachin are 100% certain.

    And no, Dhoni does not make it - very debatable, so not 100%. If you want to include debatable then Waqar, Saeed Anwar and Saqlain would also make it.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by bujhee kom View Post
    You don't have to convince me WRT Imran Khan. I saw him live, I grew up watching the man. He is the best cricketer of the modern era for me. Alongside Viv Richards. But that is rooted more in his test exploits. In ODIs, he remains top draw but the conversation is wider.
    Agreed. Imran was a far better test cricketer than ODI cricketer. However, his captaincy makes him a stronger option than Kapil, Kallis and Wat... Wait, did you just mention Shane Watson in this thread?

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    You're forgetting that Imran was a legendary captain as well, which makes him the best all-rounder to pick. He has also played a match-winning innings in a World Cup final, something that many of the batsmen being mentioned here have not been able to do.
    Exact same can be said of Kapil. World cup winning captain. Beat WI in the 80s in the final which is way more impressive than beating an English team of the 90s.

    And his 175* in that WC is still considered to be one of the best ODI innings ever. It's ranked number 4 on the Wisden 100.

  35. #35
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    Well my team is imbalanced and now I can't correct it.

    AB picks up the gloves, Sanga out include Waqar.

    Now
    2 Ind
    2 SA
    2 WI
    2 Aus
    2 Pak
    1 SL.


    Forgive when you are on top. Don't you want to be forgiven?

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    Pakistanis that might get in an all-time ODI XI: Wasim, Waqar, Saqlain and Imran. With Saeed Ajmal and Inzamam ul Haq being honorable mentions and far better players than Rohit.

    Saeed Ajmal is a proven cheat, a chucker.

    He was a thrower, and there's no place in cricket for them, let alone ALL TIME teams!

  37. #37
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    Only 1 alrounder can make the team and that is Jacques Kallis.

    The captaincy is taken up by Viv Richards.
    Last edited by Abdullah719; 2nd October 2018 at 03:36.


    Forgive when you are on top. Don't you want to be forgiven?

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    Rohit doesn't make an all time 11. Kapil is debatable
    Kohli makes an all time 11 and even if you don't think he does by the end of his career he will. Sachin makes an all time 11.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    Lol.

    Nobody in the world would even think of Kapil when it's Imran on the other hand. Be neutral.

    Wasim, Imran are 100% certain.

    Kohli, Sachin are 100% certain.

    And no, Dhoni does not make it - very debatable, so not 100%. If you want to include debatable then Waqar, Saeed Anwar and Saqlain would also make it.
    Kapil and Imran are completely comparable. Imran was the better bowler but Kapil was much better as a batsman. The man had a SR of 95 fgs. Even Viv was striking at 90.

    And IK and Kapil are both WC winning captains. So there's definitely a stage set for a comparison to be made.

    Waqar is debatable. His direct competition are people like Lillie, Marshall, Roberts and McGrath. So if you are comfortable picking Waqar over those men, go ahead.

    Saqlain is not in the reckoning either unless you think he should be played ahead of Murli and Warne.

  40. #40
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    1. Tendulkar
    2. Gilchrist
    3. Richards
    4. Ponting
    5. De Villiers
    6. S. Waugh (c)
    7. Pollock
    8. Wasim
    9. Warne
    10. Donald
    11. Garner

    I think Kohli will replace Ponting by the time he retires. Waugh's the left-field choice somewhat, but he wasn't known as the iceman for nothing.

  41. #41
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    Maximum:- 4

    Tendulkar
    Gilchrist/Jayasuriya
    Kohli
    Richards
    AB
    Dhoni(wkt)
    Kapil Dev
    Wasim
    Warne
    Murali/Garner
    McGrath

    Minimum can be zero for any team or any country.

    Even for Australia, an example:-

    Tendulkar
    Jayasuriya
    Kohli
    Viv
    AB
    Dhoni(wkt)
    Kapil/Klusenar
    Wasim
    Saqlain
    Murali
    Garner

    This team can become an all-time ODI XI, yet no Australian in it.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_outsider View Post
    Exact same can be said of Kapil. World cup winning captain. Beat WI in the 80s in the final which is way more impressive than beating an English team of the 90s.

    And his 175* in that WC is still considered to be one of the best ODI innings ever. It's ranked number 4 on the Wisden 100.
    It is not about winning a World Cup; Ponting has won three but is not considered a legendary captain. Neither is Kapil.

    The 175* was a fantastic innings but a match-winning innings in a World Cup final has its own appeal and pressure. Just ask Sachin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    Saeed Ajmal is a proven cheat, a chucker.

    He was a thrower, and there's no place in cricket for them, let alone ALL TIME teams!
    In my opinion, he did not bowl a single illegal delivery. His action was cleared in 2009 and he was bowling on the basis of being cleared by the ICC for the next five years.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_outsider View Post
    Kapil and Imran are completely comparable. Imran was the better bowler but Kapil was much better as a batsman. The man had a SR of 95 fgs. Even Viv was striking at 90.

    And IK and Kapil are both WC winning captains. So there's definitely a stage set for a comparison to be made.

    Waqar is debatable. His direct competition are people like Lillie, Marshall, Roberts and McGrath. So if you are comfortable picking Waqar over those men, go ahead.

    Saqlain is not in the reckoning either unless you think he should be played ahead of Murli and Warne.
    Much better batsman averaged 10 runs less. He was more destructive - that was it. IK was much better technically and at crafting an innings.

  44. #44
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    Klusner is better than imran or kapil in odi.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Srtfan View Post
    Klusner is better than imran or kapil in odi.
    Yes ODIs have a broader pool as standards are not as exacting as in Tests.

  46. #46
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    Sachin
    Ponting
    Kohli
    Viv
    Abd
    Dhoni
    Klusner
    Wasim
    Warne/ murli
    Lee
    McGrath.

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    My XI would be:

    1) Sachin Tendulker
    2) Hashim Amla
    3) Ricky Ponting
    4) Viv Richards
    5) AB de Villiers
    6) MS Dhoni (wk)
    7) Imran Khan (c)
    8) Saqlain Mushtaq
    9) Wasim Akram
    10) Joel Garner
    11) Glenn McGrath

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_outsider View Post
    Absolutely no way. There are 10 other batsman who can replace Gilchrist at the top.

    There is absolutely no one above Dhoni when it comes to batting at number 6.

    It's not for nothing that he is the only batsmen ever to have scored 10k runs by mostly batting outside of the top 4.
    In my personal opinion I would open with Sachin and Gilly. Keep hurting yourself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    My XI would be:

    1) Sachin Tendulker
    2) Hashim Amla
    3) Ricky Ponting
    4) Viv Richards
    5) AB de Villiers
    6) MS Dhoni (wk)
    7) Imran Khan (c)
    8) Saqlain Mushtaq
    9) Wasim Akram
    10) Joel Garner
    11) Glenn McGrath
    Actually, I would make one change:

    1) Sachin Tendulker
    2) Hashim Amla
    3) Ricky Ponting
    4) Viv Richards
    5) AB de Villiers
    6) MS Dhoni (wk)
    7) Imran Khan (c)
    8) Wasim Akram
    9) Saqlain Mushtaq
    10) Muttiah Muralitharan
    11) Glenn McGrath

    12) Joel Garner

    This makes the bowling attack bullet-proof on any kind of wicket except for Australian ones, where Garner would come back in for one of the spinners.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_outsider View Post
    Apart from Wasim there isn't a single Pakistani cricketer who definitely makes it into the XI.

    IK is debatable because it's a choice between Imran and Kapil and there is no wrong choice there.

    So, undisputedly, only 1 Pak player makes the XI.
    Saqlain.


    If pakistan cricket is to move forward they need to stop going back

  51. #51
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    Is the 2nd opener the most unsettled spot?

  52. #52
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    If one opens will Gilly and gives AB the #6 slot it solves the opening dilemma but you lose MSD's game awareness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bujhee kom View Post
    Much better batsman averaged 10 runs less. He was more destructive - that was it. IK was much better technically and at crafting an innings.
    "Much better technically and at crafting an innings" but Thad the same number of centuries as Kapil - just 1. Only difference is IK's century was 102. And Kapil's was the legendary 175.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaz View Post
    Saqlain.
    Over Murli and Warne? You think?

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_outsider View Post
    "Much better technically and at crafting an innings" but Thad the same number of centuries as Kapil - just 1. Only difference is IK's century was 102. And Kapil's was the legendary 175.
    To ignore their entire careers with the bat and zone in on 1 innings is poor form. Kapil averages a solid 10 runs less per innings than Imran. That says a lot.

  56. #56
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    Else I take it you are happy to ignore a 10 run differential on other occasions and still champion the player who has such inferior returns the better bat?

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    Sachin and kohli is fixed.
    Dhoni can be replaced only if gilly opens with sachin, but I will go with dhoni because you can replace gilly the opener with jayasuriya, sehwag, rohit, anwar, greenidge, haynes kinds who are equally destructive
    but you cant replace dhoni the reliable cum destructive finisher...not even bevan, or klusaner or ABD can do that at no 6/7.

    Sangakara, flower etc have no chance as they cant do slogging as finisher and for the middle order we have absolute GOATS like viv, kohli, lara , ponting etc.

    So, Sachin Virat and Dhoni have sealed it. Rohit kapil are debatable far from certain.

  58. #58
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    Yes.

    At least 4 Indians literally pick themselves in an ATG ODI XI simply based on record and impact.

    Tendulkar - GOAT opener
    Kohli - GOAT chaser
    Dhoni - GOAT finisher/2nd only to Kohl in chasing
    Dev - GOAT all rounder

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rayyman View Post
    Sachin Tendulkar
    Sanath Jayasuriya
    Ricky Ponting*
    Virat Kohli
    AB De Villiers
    MS Dhoni+
    Lance Klusener
    Shahid Afridi
    Wasim Akram
    Waqar Younis
    Saqlain Mushtaq

    Actually more Pakistanis than Indians
    Thank you for the laugh

  60. #60
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    Tendulkar
    Gilchrist
    Kohli
    Richards
    ABD
    Kallis
    Dhoni
    Warne
    Akram
    Mcgrath
    Garner

    Thats my team.In subcontinent conditions you can switch out garner for murali and gilchrist for jayasuriya.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by bujhee kom View Post
    To ignore their entire careers with the bat and zone in on 1 innings is poor form. Kapil averages a solid 10 runs less per innings than Imran. That says a lot.
    Actually that difference is magnified by the number of NOs Imran has.

    In terms of runs per innings (excluding NOs) it's 19.5 runs per innings for Kapil and 24.5 for Imran.

    And like I said, a strike rate of 95! In en era where Viv's SR of 90 was considered the epitome of batting domination.

    And as far as the "1 innings" thing, well, the thing is that 175* is ranked by none other than Wisden as the 4th best ODI innings ever. So it's a big deal.

  62. #62
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    Allrounder will get the no.7 slot...
    Which has to be great fast bowler/spinner cum great striker of the ball.
    {You wont play kallis at 3/4/5 to sacrifice kohli viv lara or ponting surely}
    Options :
    Klusaner....not a great pacer
    Watson.....same
    Shakib/razzaq....not world class in any one discipline
    Afridi....level below a genuine spinner
    Imran...great pacer but not a hard hitter

    That leaves with 3 genuine choices -
    Kapil, flintoff and pollock.
    Personally I would pick
    Kapil....He fits the slot best (genuine swing bowler and wicket taker in odis + striking ability ahead of his times + great fielder + wc winner captain)

  63. #63
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    Sachin
    Jayasuriya
    Viv
    Kohli
    ABD
    Dhoni
    Kapil
    Wasim
    Warne
    Mcgrath
    Garner

    12th man : muralidharan

    Wasim and kapil masters of swing.
    Garner tall and genuine quick.
    Mcgrath economical as hell.
    3 different spinners warne murali jaya.
    Batting first sachin, jaya, ABD will wreak havoc....while chasing kohli viv and dhoni safe as hell.
    Kapil, wasim, warne good lower order strikers if need.

  64. #64
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    1. Sachin
    2. Jayasuriya
    3. Kohli
    4. Viv
    5. ABD
    6. Dhoni
    7. Kapil
    8. Wasim
    9. Warne
    10. Waqar
    11. McGrath

    This would be my personal choice. 4 pacers, 2 spinners and batting down till number 9.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_outsider View Post
    Actually that difference is magnified by the number of NOs Imran has.

    In terms of runs per innings (excluding NOs) it's 19.5 runs per innings for Kapil and 24.5 for Imran.

    And like I said, a strike rate of 95! In en era where Viv's SR of 90 was considered the epitome of batting domination.

    And as far as the "1 innings" thing, well, the thing is that 175* is ranked by none other than Wisden as the 4th best ODI innings ever. So it's a big deal.
    How much is Dhoni's average boosted by NOs? How does this post prove your point when the difference between Imran's average and Kapil's is still five points?

    Imran was just as good a batsman as Kapil, if not better. Imran actually batted in the top four and played a superb match-winning innings in a World Cup final. All Kapil has is a century against Zimbabwe.

    Kapil's SR was definitely fantastic but I fail to see how he was anything more than a Shahid Afridi prototype with the bat.

    Of course, Imran was unarguably the superior bowler.
    Last edited by Bilal7; 2nd October 2018 at 05:22.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by bujhee kom View Post
    Another way of looking at it: who are the ABSOLUTE LOCKS.

    Sachin
    Richards
    Wasim
    Kohli


    Those 4 are surely beyond doubt now.
    Not Kohli,

    There are only 3 absolute lock right now. SRT, Viv and Wasim in world XI.

    If you are forced to take an all rounder then there is no better choice than Kapil who was ranked 1 for almost 10 years despite having 3 other gun all rounders.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_outsider View Post
    Kallis? Definitely. If you're going for a batting AR then Kallis over both Kapil and IK. If you want a bowling AR, then Kallis is the wrong choice.

    Watson? No I don't think he should be in contention. Because Watson's direct competition are people like Kallis, Klusener and Flintoff who are all better options.
    I wonder how much closely PPers suggesting Kallis have watched Kallis. Kallis lost countless matches due to selfish batting. I will hesitate to take Kallis even in all time SA XI.

    Now if talk is about test then he is right up there with the best. Klusener was far better than Kallis as an all rounder in ODI format.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffet View Post
    Not Kohli,

    There are only 3 absolute lock right now. SRT, Viv and Wasim in world XI.

    If you are forced to take an all rounder then there is no better choice than Kapil who was ranked 1 for almost 10 years despite having 3 other gun all rounders.
    Don't you think Murli also deserves a lock in? Because he's the highest ever wicket taker and a spinner so he's a different kind to Wasim.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    How much is Dhoni's average boosted by NOs? How does this post prove your point when the difference between Imran's average and Kapil's is still five points?

    Imran was just as good a batsman as Kapil, if not better. Imran actually batted in the top four and played a superb match-winning innings in a World Cup final. All Kapil has is a century against Zimbabwe.

    Kapil's SR was definitely fantastic but I fail to see how he was anything more than a Shahid Afridi prototype with the bat.

    Of course, Imran was unarguably the superior bowler.
    If Imran was the better all-arounder than why was he ranked below Kapil in the ICC rankings for most of his career?

  70. #70
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    IK and Dev is not a close debate. I won't pick even Dev because you may not want to pick an all rounder, but if you have to pick then Dev gets the nod.

    To put it in perspective,


    Name:  IK_Kapil.jpg
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    Majority of career, Dev had higher rating than peak rating of IK in ODI. If that doesn't convince anyone then nothing is going to convince. It's not a marginal case. He was also a better fielder than IK, which is not reflected in ratings and no debate is needed for that. His achievement in ODI as captain is nothing less than IK.

    Yep, IK was also going over 4.31 runs per over against best team of his era and it's reflected in his career best bowlers rank of 4.

    Not sure how anyone can make a case for IK over Dev in ODI format. It's like some one arguing for Dev over IK in the test format. Gap was wider in the test in my oinion, but enough gap exist in both formats to not have a serious debate.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_outsider View Post
    If Imran was the better all-arounder than why was he ranked below Kapil in the ICC rankings for most of his career?
    Kapil's majority of career had higher rating than Peak rating of IK. Not just higher.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_outsider View Post
    Don't you think Murli also deserves a lock in? Because he's the highest ever wicket taker and a spinner so he's a different kind to Wasim.
    I have bias for Saqlain and also some poster will bring action. I don't think that Murali chucked.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_outsider View Post
    If Imran was the better all-arounder than why was he ranked below Kapil in the ICC rankings for most of his career?
    Because the rankings are inconsistent and generally worthless. Do you know what Sachin's highest ever rating is and how many players have achieved a higher rating than him?

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    Because the rankings are inconsistent and generally worthless. Do you know what Sachin's highest ever rating is and how many players have achieved a higher rating than him?
    It could be termed "useless" if the ranking was for a few months here and there. But Kapil was the number 1 ranked all-arounder for almost 10 years in a row, in the company of not just Imran but also Botham and Hadlee.

    If you want to dismiss that because of your tinted glasses, go ahead. You do that with everything anyway.

  75. #75
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    There are 14 batsmen that have achieved a higher rating than Sachin Tendulker and 13 bowlers who have achieved a higher rating than Wasim. It is mind-boggling how some people pretend like these ICC ratings are the be-all, end-all of every debate.

    It is clear to anybody who watched the two that Imran was a superior bowler and captain to Kapil. In the batting department, they were both short of greatness, generally speaking, but Imran did play a match-winning innings in a World Cup final.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffet View Post
    I have bias for Saqlain and also some poster will bring action. I don't think that Murali chucked.
    Fair enough.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_outsider View Post
    It could be termed "useless" if the ranking was for a few months here and there. But Kapil was the number 1 ranked all-arounder for almost 10 years in a row, in the company of not just Imran but also Botham and Hadlee.

    If you want to dismiss that because of your tinted glasses, go ahead. You do that with everything anyway.
    Like, I said, do you know what was the highest rating than Sachin achieved during his 20 year career? Are you willing to accept that Javed Miandad at his peak was a better ODI batsman than Sachin at his peak?

    Or are you now willing to accept that the rankings are not an accurate indicator of quality?

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    Like, I said, do you know what was the highest rating than Sachin achieved during his 20 year career? Are you willing to accept that Javed Miandad at his peak was a better ODI batsman than Sachin at his peak?

    Or are you now willing to accept that the rankings are not an accurate indicator of quality?
    Like Dhoni was a better captain than Imran in ODIs, Kapil was a better all rounder than Imran in ODIs. Its proven universally by virtue of rankings and trophy accomplishments.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    Like, I said, do you know what was the highest rating than Sachin achieved during his 20 year career? Are you willing to accept that Javed Miandad at his peak was a better ODI batsman than Sachin at his peak?

    Or are you now willing to accept that the rankings are not an accurate indicator of quality?
    The point is not what is the peak rating. That is dependent on a string of successive great innings.

    The point is sustaining that ranking. 10 years is not a joke.

    But anyway like I said, if you want to stick to your version, go ahead. But you can't convince me that Imran was better than Kapil in ODIs.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    Pakistanis that might get in an all-time ODI XI: Wasim, Waqar, Saqlain and Imran. With Saeed Ajmal and Inzamam ul Haq being honorable mentions and far better players than Rohit.
    Saeed Ajmal? At least include legal bowlers!!! Imran for what? Kallis should be there if you consider all rounders. Warne, Murli if considering spinners but Ajmal? Come on Bilalbhai, dont be so biased. We are talking about Wold XI and not Faislabad club.


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