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  1. #1
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    Certain "political differences/views" should not be accepted in Pakistan

    I often hear that we should respect political differences in Pakistan if someone support N-League or PPP. I am completely against this.

    If you support thieves, crooks or murderers I will NOT respect your opinion and I will judge you for it.

    This isn't like supporting democrats or republicans so stop equating it to that. We need to take a stand against those who support crooks and thieves like Nawaz, Zardari and co.

    If you support someone who is incompetent in my view, then that's fine I will respect your decision.

    For instance, I think Jamiaat-e-Islami is a bad party but they are not corrupt. Anyone who supports them, I will disagree but respect their opinion. Similarly, there are other politicians out there.

    But those that support Zardari or Nawaz do not deserve "respect of opinion". They have sucked this country dry and they will be answerable

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    Anyone who has lived in Pakistan or worked in any capacity knows how blatantly N-League and PPP politicians steal from others.. Murdering someone is no issue for them either. How on earth can we respect people that support murderers and crooks?

  3. #3
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    Very brave opinion. Kudos.


    Misbah, Wahab, Junaid, Root, Williamson fan.
    T20 isn't Cricket

  4. #4
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    As Fawad Chaudry said daku ko daku bolo tou inko bora lag jata hai.


    I hold the same opinion as you OP Bhai... Anybody supporting looters and plunderers of poor nation do not deserve any respect. They should be singled out and named and shamed. They probably benefit from corrupt rulers through corruption of their own. Keep in mind people on here are generally better educated than the average joe and have access to information that should in theory enlighten their mind to not support these thieves, but sadly some people have a distinct lack of grey matter which is a void too big for education to bridge.


    It's not like the debate is between Liberals and Conservatives here in Canada, you can support which ever party and people respect your opinion because at the end of the day both parties want the best for Canada in their own way, but parties like PPP and PML-N are just dynastic agencies serving a couple of elite families and they have no desire to work for the betterment of Pakistan. Otherwise they have been ruling for 30+ years and Pakistan wouldn't have been in the state it is right now had they had the right intentions.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badsha View Post
    I often hear that we should respect political differences in Pakistan if someone support N-League or PPP. I am completely against this.

    If you support thieves, crooks or murderers I will NOT respect your opinion and I will judge you for it.

    This isn't like supporting democrats or republicans so stop equating it to that. We need to take a stand against those who support crooks and thieves like Nawaz, Zardari and co.

    If you support someone who is incompetent in my view, then that's fine I will respect your decision.

    For instance, I think Jamiaat-e-Islami is a bad party but they are not corrupt. Anyone who supports them, I will disagree but respect their opinion. Similarly, there are other politicians out there.

    But those that support Zardari or Nawaz do not deserve "respect of opinion". They have sucked this country dry and they will be answerable
    There are a LOT of corrupt Democrats and Republicans. What makes it even more corrupt is that it's a two party system and thus very easy to corrupt. Nawaz and Zardari may seem corrupt after actual investigations were made but the same would have been true of half the senators if that were the case in the US. They know their constituents are the dumbest and most obstinate people int he world, not the mention the lobbyists.

    In my opinion people are stupid, to get them to use critical thinking for something they have been led to believe as right for their whole lives to be wrong, be it politics or religion is nigh impossible. It takes a lot of courage to actually discard what you've been taught since you were born, be it tradition, culture, religion, politics etc and think with an open mind. You basically have to be ready to risk disowning many people you love, live in isolation and be mocked for not just being another brick in the wall.

    It's very easy to say but very hard to do.

  6. #6
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    One man’s thief is another man’s leader. Ain’t it beautiful?

  7. #7
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    In all seriousness, there will always be a reason for ppl to blindly follow someone. You can’t expect to have political leaders and political parties who are squeaky clean when an average man loves paying bribes just because he can’t be bothered to stand in a cue to get his passport, I’d card or driving license. That person is very likely to vote for chor and lotaira. When his kids get fed up from the system they would vote for populist. When that populist, for obvious reasons, would fail to deliver, those disillusioned voters would internalise the lies, corruption and conjecture and they would also end up developing cult mentality. To them facts don’t matter because they will always question the motives and credibility of fact producers. A person who blindly follows Imran Khan wouldn’t trust in a single word uttered by Nawaz Sharif, Zardari or Bilawal regardless of how much factual those words are. Same is true for the followers of other parties and party leaders. In the end no one gives any respect to anyone’s opinions because to them their support for other parties is caused by their lack of morality and the access of self serving tendencies.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angrez Pakistani View Post
    One man’s thief is another man’s leader. Ain’t it beautiful?
    Shouldn't they be every Pakistan's thief though?

  9. #9
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    A "political difference" is when two people/parties disagree on policy issues or the way the government tackles a problem. I view the differences between a PTI supporter and an AWP/Jibran Nasir supporter as a "political difference".

    When it comes to PPP and PML-N, their support is not based on policy. Their support is based on either lack of education, or certain people personally benefiting from them being in power. Their supporters do not have a different point of view on how to tackle problems, they are simply greedy people who do not care about the future of the country. Thus, I don't accept their views as "political difference", rather I view them as either uneducated or greedy people.


    “It is not defeat that destroys you, it is being demoralized by defeat that destroys you.”
    ― Imran Khan

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    Shouldn't they be every Pakistan's thief though?
    If Imran Khan is arrested today by NAB or any other organisation, you wouldn’t trust a single word uttered by them. Same I believe is true for the supporters every other politician and political party. Their is a trust deficit for the ppl in the system so they find hope in certain individuals who they believe can change the system. PPP supporters think that Bilawal can change the system. PML-N supporters think that NS and SS can change the system. PTI supporters think that IK can change the system. Therefore ppl build a toxic attachments to their political favourites. That’s the crux of the matter. No one trust the system and everyone has its messianic figure tailor made for his own beliefs and ideology. You can provide them with the evidence of wrongdoings but they won’t trust your narrative because to them everything is a conspiracy by the establishment against their beloved leader.

  11. #11
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    Absolutely agree with the thread. A freedom without ethics is just anarchy and nothing else. Pakistan has reached a state where the least important thing is the general public and then there are people who will support these people, unacceptable.

    You just need to spend one day in Pakistan and you realize the extreme poverty, suffering, and chaos that the ordinary man/woman/child has to go through to just survive.

    You can be anything that you want but the moment you lack empathy, you lose your moral standing.


    ya aenu chuk lay ya mainu aenu chukkan di taaqat day

  12. #12
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    A very good point bro!

  13. #13
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    You have to be either a beneficiary or there has to be something seriously wrong with your head to support or associate yourself with people who are proven plunders and corrupts.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angrez Pakistani View Post
    If Imran Khan is arrested today by NAB or any other organisation, you wouldn’t trust a single word uttered by them. Same I believe is true for the supporters every other politician and political party. Their is a trust deficit for the ppl in the system so they find hope in certain individuals who they believe can change the system. PPP supporters think that Bilawal can change the system. PML-N supporters think that NS and SS can change the system. PTI supporters think that IK can change the system. Therefore ppl build a toxic attachments to their political favourites. That’s the crux of the matter. No one trust the system and everyone has its messianic figure tailor made for his own beliefs and ideology. You can provide them with the evidence of wrongdoings but they won’t trust your narrative because to them everything is a conspiracy by the establishment against their beloved leader.
    so whats your solution sherlock? voting for Jibran who'll change it all? bloody revolution? Or maybe a long march that will change everything..??

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by the Great Khan View Post
    so whats your solution sherlock? voting for Jibran who'll change it all? bloody revolution? Or maybe a long march that will change everything..??
    You can vote for whoever you want bro. Don’t need to get so riled up against reality. What we need is a more accountable media and that can only happen through judicial and media reforms. WhatsApp forwarded messages shall never be turned into news headlines. We stricter scrutiny in media. That will only happen if the access to justice is possible for a common man as well as through strengthening of criminal laws in which false reporting shall be liable as criminal offence (without actually criticising satire). Another issue is the lack of democracy in political parties. There are no elections within the parties in which new ideas can be contested and ppl with better ideas get the highest places within party hierarchy. What we have right now is the lack of truth in media, lack of democracy in political parties, lack of accountability for either of them, and a crop of frustrated young men who would blindly defend their party leadership without an iota of self respect.

  16. #16
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    agree with OP. there are somethings for which Pakistanis have to think above the party lines; for example the Senator Mushadullah Khan's case: the guy is a crook who used nepotism to reward his relatives at the expense of government money, so in this case no Pakistani should support him, his party should have forced him to resign or else terminate him. In west he would have no career after this scandal. But in Pakistan he is still considered a leader

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by srh View Post
    agree with OP. there are somethings for which Pakistanis have to think above the party lines; for example the Senator Mushadullah Khan's case: the guy is a crook who used nepotism to reward his relatives at the expense of government money, so in this case no Pakistani should support him, his party should have forced him to resign or else terminate him. In west he would have no career after this scandal. But in Pakistan he is still considered a leader
    Flip the case on some PTI members, such as JKT, and you’ll see s sudden shift in their opinions. You can’t pick and choose the crooks. In principle I agree with your point.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angrez Pakistani View Post
    Flip the case on some PTI members, such as JKT, and you’ll see s sudden shift in their opinions. You can’t pick and choose the crooks. In principle I agree with your point.
    LOL at the false equivalence between someone who used public funds for his own entertainment and health and inducted 30 odd of his relatives in PIA and someone who didn't declare his own money which he earned not through public office. Do you even know what the charge on JKT is? Easy to mouth off when you are ignorant.


    #Hum apko container deingaye dharnay ke liyay

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    LOL at the false equivalence between someone who used public funds for his own entertainment and health and inducted 30 odd of his relatives in PIA and someone who didn't declare his own money which he earned not through public office. Do you even know what the charge on JKT is? Easy to mouth off when you are ignorant.
    A practical demonstration of my point. A person who doesn’t declare his assets is by definition a crook under the law. Thank you for proving my point.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angrez Pakistani View Post
    A practical demonstration of my point. A person doesn’t declare his assets is by definition a crook under the law. Thank you for proving my point.
    Yes and hence he has been disqualified, but going by your logic a cycle thief is on the same rung as a murderer.


    JKT did not declare HIS OWN income for whatever reason perhaps to not pay tax, and hence has been rightfully disqualified.


    Mushaidullah used taxpayers money to go abroad several times and also for his medical needs and also inducted his relatives in PIA. His brother who was a taxi driver in US was given an executive level role in PIA.


    but sure both cases are equal.


    #Hum apko container deingaye dharnay ke liyay

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    Yes and hence he has been disqualified, but going by your logic a cycle thief is on the same rung as a murderer.


    JKT did not declare HIS OWN income for whatever reason perhaps to not pay tax, and hence has been rightfully disqualified.


    Mushaidullah used taxpayers money to go abroad several times and also for his medical needs and also inducted his relatives in PIA. His brother who was a taxi driver in US was given an executive level role in PIA.


    but sure both cases are equal.
    I never said both cases are equal. One abused the tax payers money, the other didn’t even give two hoots about paying it. You want to call it false equivalency, be my guest. I wouldn’t even have a bike thief as my employee, let alone a tax evader as my leader. But thanks again for proving my point.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angrez Pakistani View Post
    I never said both cases are equal. One abused the tax payers money, the other didn’t even give two hoots about paying it. You want to call it false equivalency, be my guest. I wouldn’t even have a bike thief as my employee, let alone a tax evader as my leader. But thanks again for proving my point.
    You have no point


    #Hum apko container deingaye dharnay ke liyay

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    You have no point
    Like ppl didn’t cheer for JKT when he was catching independent candidates like Pokemons right after the elections. That didn’t happen, right?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angrez Pakistani View Post
    Like ppl didn’t cheer for JKT when he was catching independent candidates like Pokemons right after the elections. That didn’t happen, right?
    Was he using public funds for that?


    #Hum apko container deingaye dharnay ke liyay

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    Was he using public funds for that?
    Man you are hopeless. He was using the tax evading resources for recruiting Independent candidates for the exclusive purpose of forming federal and provincial governments. You don’t see an issue with that?

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angrez Pakistani View Post
    You can vote for whoever you want bro. Don’t need to get so riled up against reality. What we need is a more accountable media and that can only happen through judicial and media reforms. WhatsApp forwarded messages shall never be turned into news headlines. We stricter scrutiny in media. That will only happen if the access to justice is possible for a common man as well as through strengthening of criminal laws in which false reporting shall be liable as criminal offence (without actually criticising satire). Another issue is the lack of democracy in political parties. There are no elections within the parties in which new ideas can be contested and ppl with better ideas get the highest places within party hierarchy. What we have right now is the lack of truth in media, lack of democracy in political parties, lack of accountability for either of them, and a crop of frustrated young men who would blindly defend their party leadership without an iota of self respect.
    All of the above are issues that the PTI are attempting to ingrain within its party structures, within the country itself. None of the other parties are interested in the above. As a result we should be praying that IK can institute his reforms.

  27. #27
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    Hilarious post. How can a view not be accepted? I am not a Noon or PPP supporter but how can you force people to not have an opinion?

    Many people have different views and we should accept them. That is what a democracy is. People support Nawaz Sharif for various reasons - i.e establishment conspiracies, "economic progress" under PML-N. They have a view point and we should not stop people from having views as much as we might not like them.


    "Nations are born in the hearts of poets, they prosper and die in the hands of politicians."-Iqbal

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    I'd much sooner respect someone that says I like PPP or PML-N because they've done well for me (my family) than to respect someone that suggests their governance was better than the 2 months PTI has had in power. At least it shows they have the conscience to speak honestly.

    I've had this debate with well-to-do PPP supporters that saw BB as some sort of infallible savior. She is not a savior, your family benefited under her rule that is why you support her.

    Similarly with PML-N supporters having the audacity to discuss the economy under PTI. You're upset that IK is trying to put a stop to the corruption that your family has benefited from for years.

    This is why I can't take posters like Talentspotter and Hamza seriously. There's a serious lack of a conscience there.

    Whereas a poster like Mamoon I can understand. He doesn't want to make excuses for other political parties, he just wants to hold IK to a much higher (sometimes unrealistic) standard.

    I do not agree with IK from a social or economic point of view but from a moral point of view he's the only worthy candidate.
    Last edited by RickyG; 15th October 2018 at 15:27.

  29. #29
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    Freedom of speech wouldn’t be so cherished if ppl were banned for having ‘certain views’. That’s exactly what it means to have freedom of speech. You can legislate to delegitimise the expression of certain views that against the basic human rights such as racist views or religious extremism. Plus, no one on this forum suggests that corruption is a good thing. Ppl have reservations on the process of justice. Similarly, no one is saying that they hate Pakistan. Ppl don’t like the current condition Pakistan in which they are living. We also need to understand that when ppl are hurt they express their conditions with the harsher words than what is usually acceptable.


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