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  1. #1
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    Was Michael Bevan the best ODI batsman? Comparison with today's batsmen

    People compare today's batsmen with the batsmen of 90s , ignoring the fact that how difficult was it to bat in 90s without the flat pitches that we see today , also the game was more balanced giving opportunities to both batsmen and bowlers.Here i have collected the data of batsmen last 10 years and the batsmen of 90s .You can see for yourself how easy is it to score now as compared to then and current batsman cannot be compared with 90s batsman.

    Batsman 2008-2018

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    As you can see one batsman is averaging above 60 and almost 13 batsman who are averaging above 45 from 2008-2018.also notice the strike rates.

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    while in the 90s only M Bevan was averaging in 60s also he used to come at 5 or 6 therefore resulting in high no of not outs.But the thing to look is non of the other batsman are averaging more than 45 as seen in the data.


    I am going to name my son "Intikhab Alam" so that he will never lose his job.

  2. #2
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    the standard of bowling was higher in the nineties. no bangladesh like teams to boost your stats against. even zimbabwe was a respectable team. Pitches were harder to bat on.
    Bevan was a far better batsman than so-called ATGs of todays era.

  3. #3
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    If we carry forward this logic, we can conclude that bowling today is much more difficult compared to the 90’s because of the flat pitches and other rules that are favoring the batsmen.

    Hence, if Bevan and other 90’s batsmen are better than today’s batsmen, then the best bowlers of today are also better than Wasim, Waqar, McGrath, Pollock, Donald etc. etc.

    If batsmen today have inflated averages because of easy conditions, then the bowlers today have deflated averages.

    The problem with the proponents of the “batting was tougher back then” logic is that they are not willing to apply their own logic to the bowlers, and want people to believe that somehow both the quality of batting and bowling dropped simultaneously.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    If we carry forward this logic, we can conclude that bowling today is much more difficult compared to the 90’s because of the flat pitches and other rules that are favoring the batsmen.

    Hence, if Bevan and other 90’s batsmen are better than today’s batsmen, then the best bowlers of today are also better than Wasim, Waqar, McGrath, Pollock, Donald etc. etc.

    If batsmen today have inflated averages because of easy conditions, then the bowlers today have deflated averages.

    The problem with the proponents of the “batting was tougher back then” logic is that they are not willing to apply their own logic to the bowlers, and want people to believe that somehow both the quality of batting and bowling dropped simultaneously.
    Steyn is better than wasim for me. Cannot say about any other bowler of todays era.


    I am going to name my son "Intikhab Alam" so that he will never lose his job.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    If we carry forward this logic, we can conclude that bowling today is much more difficult compared to the 90’s because of the flat pitches and other rules that are favoring the batsmen.

    Hence, if Bevan and other 90’s batsmen are better than today’s batsmen, then the best bowlers of today are also better than Wasim, Waqar, McGrath, Pollock, Donald etc. etc.

    If batsmen today have inflated averages because of easy conditions, then the bowlers today have deflated averages.

    The problem with the proponents of the “batting was tougher back then” logic is that they are not willing to apply their own logic to the bowlers, and want people to believe that somehow both the quality of batting and bowling dropped simultaneously.
    the quality of batting and bowling has dropped overall.
    look at west indies, look at zimbabwe, introduction of bangladesh as a test playing nation.
    heck look at pakistan, you enjoy calling pakistan a worthless team, so pakistan has fallen in terms of competitiveness.
    Australia appears to be falling as well, this could be a blip, or it be the norm, to early to tell.

    Likewise, with South Africa, the applicaton of transformation policy, imposition of quotas on numbers of black south africans is only going to hobble south african cricket, so expect standards of south africa to fall.

    Sri Lankan cricket has almost fallen to minnow levels (in limited overs only)

    your love for indian cricket appears to blind you to the reality that standards of cricket have fallen overall.
    Last edited by Zeeraq; 1st November 2018 at 18:49.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    If we carry forward this logic, we can conclude that bowling today is much more difficult compared to the 90’s because of the flat pitches and other rules that are favoring the batsmen.

    Hence, if Bevan and other 90’s batsmen are better than today’s batsmen, then the best bowlers of today are also better than Wasim, Waqar, McGrath, Pollock, Donald etc. etc.

    If batsmen today have inflated averages because of easy conditions, then the bowlers today have deflated averages.

    The problem with the proponents of the “batting was tougher back then” logic is that they are not willing to apply their own logic to the bowlers, and want people to believe that somehow both the quality of batting and bowling dropped simultaneously.
    Everything was better in 90s! Bowlers, batsmen. So automatically the stats of the batsmen and bowler of that era can be "adjusted" to show that they are better than their present day counterparts.

    E.g. Saeed Anwar would have loved batting on present day pitches and would have averaged 50+. Wasim Akram would have loved bowling to present day batsmen, so would have averaged <20 with every batsman missing his deliveries left, right, and centre.
    Last edited by BreadPakoda; 1st November 2018 at 15:57.

  7. #7
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    bevan was a delight .didnt have power game . bewan at his peak was 80 percent of dhoni only cos dhoni had power game and all that bewan offered

    bewan had good support from aussie tail - barring mcgrath everyone batted .

    its unfair to compare him . bewan and dhoni are perhaps the best chasers along with kohli

    where bewan looses perhapsis first innings blitzkreig . not seen him play great first innings totals

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    Bevan isn't even better than Dhoni. Bevan had mediocre strike rate for a finisher. If he played now, he would be shamed far more than Dhoni has ever been.

  9. #9
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    Yes he was the best of his time. Time and time again he rescued his side in important matches.

    Overall its Sir Viv. Nowadays its Kohli.


    Sarfi as captain'll lead us to glory.Babar'll be our best odi bat & Haris'll be world class in tests

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by saadsahabjee View Post
    Steyn is better than wasim for me. Cannot say about any other bowler of todays era.
    Same is true about your opening post . This is your opinion and holds true only for you just like your steyn thingy.

  11. #11
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    No, he wasn't. His average was inflated by 65 not outs. He was however the best when it came to damage control, that's for sure. His SR of 75 wasn't extraordinary either.


    If there is a better batsman than Sachin then he hasn’t arrived yet: Viv Richards

  12. #12
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    Kohli is better and Viv is better than both.


    Babar Azam: Runs 8032, Average 44, Top Score: 204, Fav fan: CricFan2012

  13. #13
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    the period in which bevan was at peak, between 1993-1999 or so, it was a strange period. Mark taylor built up the team that Border started on. And other top teams Ind, Eng had mostly pretty average players. West Indies bowlers were on decline, batting greats were retired and one or two very good batsmen, hooper , richardson etc were on decline. South africa did not have agressive players and kallis was just beginning to have his footing. Cronje, Rhodes were competitors to Bevan to some extent but their teams always choked against Aus. And Pakistan too under-achieved. And most importantly, Bevan was almost the player of the tri-series. Most not-outs would have come in the tri-series that is customarily played after tests in feb-march in Aus.

    And like others pointed out he was always the 'mechanic' in his team.
    And to his credit he played well for the time.
    And he was not an ODI all time great.
    He, I think, is among top 5 of Australian players and that is it.
    He had great weakness against short bowling.
    In Indian terms, he is Suresh raina plus over-achievement.
    Last edited by ind_win; 1st November 2018 at 17:16.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    If we carry forward this logic, we can conclude that bowling today is much more difficult compared to the 90’s because of the flat pitches and other rules that are favoring the batsmen.

    Hence, if Bevan and other 90’s batsmen are better than today’s batsmen, then the best bowlers of today are also better than Wasim, Waqar, McGrath, Pollock, Donald etc. etc.

    If batsmen today have inflated averages because of easy conditions, then the bowlers today have deflated averages.

    The problem with the proponents of the “batting was tougher back then” logic is that they are not willing to apply their own logic to the bowlers, and want people to believe that somehow both the quality of batting and bowling dropped simultaneously.
    True this logic should apply in both way. Wasim, waqar and many great are benefits from bowling friendly condition. They are definitely 20% more then they will be today.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by warcry View Post
    the quality of batting and bowling has dropped overall.
    look at west indies, look at zimbabwe, introduction of bangladesh as a test playing nation.
    heck look at pakistan, you enjoy calling pakistan a **** team, so pakistan has fallen in terms of competitiveness.
    Australia appears to be falling as well, this could be a blip, or it be the norm, to early to tell.

    Likewise, with South Africa, the applicaton of transformation policy, imposition of quotas on numbers of black south africans is only going to hobble south african cricket, so expect standards of south africa to fall.

    Sri Lankan cricket has almost fallen to minnow levels (in limited overs only)

    your love for indian cricket appears to blind you to the reality that standards of cricket have fallen overall.
    This happens with any team and in any sports. Every team see success and failure. Your blind hatred towards India keep u away from reality.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    If we carry forward this logic, we can conclude that bowling today is much more difficult compared to the 90’s because of the flat pitches and other rules that are favoring the batsmen.

    Hence, if Bevan and other 90’s batsmen are better than today’s batsmen, then the best bowlers of today are also better than Wasim, Waqar, McGrath, Pollock, Donald etc. etc.

    If batsmen today have inflated averages because of easy conditions, then the bowlers today have deflated averages.

    The problem with the proponents of the “batting was tougher back then” logic is that they are not willing to apply their own logic to the bowlers, and want people to believe that somehow both the quality of batting and bowling dropped simultaneously.
    The average run rates have increased since 2007-8. The bats are so big and almost all of it is a sweet spot while retaining the same weight. Conditions have become favourable for batting. Economy rates for bowlers have increased. I would be willing to say a bowler these days is better than a bowler of 90s if he matches the economy rate of his predecessor. Wasim, McGrath, Pollock, Murali etc all had economy rate under 4. How often do you see it these days? NONE. The batting totals have increased, batters play aggressively and with risk, so the wickets fall easily. If there is someone right now who averages 23 with an economy rate of under 4, then I would say he's better than bowlers of 80s and 90s

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by freak_virat View Post
    This happens with any team and in any sports. Every team see success and failure. Your blind hatred towards India keep u away from reality.
    Every team see success and failure. But that is not my point. my point is overall today, the standard of cricket played is much lower than what it was in previous decades. today, if the ball swings and seams a little bit, and todays ATGs will look like a team from North Nazimabad. This is true for EVERY SIDE. not just one team.

  18. #18
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    I always pick Bevan in my all time ODI XI. He has ability to hang around with risk free shots. Probably the best runner between wickets of all time.
    I rate him second best finisher after Dhoni.


    Aaj ka kaam kal karo, Kal ka kaam parson. Aisi bhi jaldi kya hai, Jab jeena hai barson.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by warcry View Post
    Every team see success and failure. But that is not my point. my point is overall today, the standard of cricket played is much lower than what it was in previous decades. today, if the ball swings and seams a little bit, and todays ATGs will look like a team from North Nazimabad. This is true for EVERY SIDE. not just one team.
    Show me any stats or cretaria that shows cricket digraded now a days. And your seam and swing case is not susbstantial because you have nothing to back this statement. Do you have any records that says that player play swing and seam better in 90s then now. These all are hypothetical condition have no weight. But I know that some team quality has degraded like Pakistan,West India and Aus (Not going for sri lanka now bcz they are good till 2015 and in rebuilding phase). And on the other hand India , England , Afagan, BD cricket team improves. For stats just find the winning and loosing before and after 2000.

  20. #20
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    i have seen india play against england in england recently.
    I have seen the standard of england batting. against us and against india.


    I 100% back my previous statement.

    i dont consider afghan and bangla team worthy of discussion.

    the only team that is better today than in the nineties is new zealand

  21. #21
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    Would have failed in the modern era. No more than an upmarket glorified version of Fawad Alam and I reckon Alam plays the short ball better than Bevan ever did.

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    Only few ODI batsmen are better than him and he is an ATG in ODI cricket.

    Many also believe that he would have been successful in tests if he didn't played in the era when Aussies were strong.

  23. #23
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    I'm not sure Bevan would as successful now, with larger totals on the board and power hitting down the order really a "must have" batting trait.

    Bevan was a risk free accumulator. Very fast and good judge of a run, he tickled and manoeuvred the ball around during the middle overs. Turning ones into two's was his bread and butter. He could find the boundary but even back then was known as a guy who didn't blast shots around. It just wasn't in his game.

    He was perfectly attuned to the batting standards of the time, which required you to go at about 3-5rpo during the middle and 6-7 at the end, which he would do with singles and the odd four. I think he'd struggle with the asking rates of many games today. He'd still be good, but not the world beater he was. He didn't have a power game.

  24. #24
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    Not the greatest.

    But certainly way better than the likes of Dhoni, etc.

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    Bevan would have averaged 48-50 in this era with 85 strike rate. Its a trade off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Only few ODI batsmen are better than him and he is an ATG in ODI cricket.

    Many also believe that he would have been successful in tests if he didn't played in the era when Aussies were strong.
    Bevan is barely an ATG now. ODI finisher role has changed tremendously in last 10 years, Bevan wouldn't get in any current top team. His SR is abysmal, SR is the primary criteria for finishers now. Average means nothing since a high average with poor SR is detrimental to the team. A 30 off 20 balls is much, much important after 40th over than run a ball 40.

    Bevan is a product of an era which is long gone, we have to keep context in mind when we think about stats. Finishing in 90s is not the same as finishing in 2010s.

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    One short ball per over wasn’t allowed. He should be glad

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Gomes View Post
    Bevan is barely an ATG now. ODI finisher role has changed tremendously in last 10 years, Bevan wouldn't get in any current top team. His SR is abysmal, SR is the primary criteria for finishers now. Average means nothing since a high average with poor SR is detrimental to the team. A 30 off 20 balls is much, much important after 40th over than run a ball 40.

    Bevan is a product of an era which is long gone, we have to keep context in mind when we think about stats. Finishing in 90s is not the same as finishing in 2010s.
    He had a great game awareness just like Dhoni and he knew how to control the game, pace the inning and when it is time to accelerate. He had some luxuries like not facing bowlers of his own country, lesser workload due to not playing tests and also his team not being overly reliant on him, but if he had grown up in this era, he would have improved his attacking game and would have definitely found ways of scoring quick runs and finishing games off because of having that cool brain and a great game-awareness.

    I will put him among the top 10 ODI batsmen of all-time and probably top 6-7 as well. Remember he was a vital cog when Australia only had Mark and Steve Waugh and likes of Ponting, Gilchrist, McGrath and Hayden were still establishing. Martyn, Lee and Symonds came a lot later.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by saadsahabjee View Post
    Steyn is better than wasim for me. Cannot say about any other bowler of todays era.
    What are the achievements of Steyn in ODI cricket that made you say he is better than Wasim?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    He had a great game awareness just like Dhoni and he knew how to control the game, pace the inning and when it is time to accelerate. He had some luxuries like not facing bowlers of his own country, lesser workload due to not playing tests and also his team not being overly reliant on him, but if he had grown up in this era, he would have improved his attacking game and would have definitely found ways of scoring quick runs and finishing games off because of having that cool brain and a great game-awareness.

    I will put him among the top 10 ODI batsmen of all-time and probably top 6-7 as well. Remember he was a vital cog when Australia only had Mark and Steve Waugh and likes of Ponting, Gilchrist, McGrath and Hayden were still establishing. Martyn, Lee and Symonds came a lot later.
    Awareness does't win you matches, capability does. Bevan was never a bard hitter, his whole batting style was accumulation and reaching Australia to a respectable score when there was a collapse, or being the anchor to middle order. That wouldn't fly in this era. The likes of Buttler have completely changed what finisher used to mean. Averages don't mean anything, it's all about strike rate now. Bevan was a good batsman for his era but I wouldn't put him in lower middle order for any team now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Gomes View Post
    Awareness does't win you matches, capability does. Bevan was never a bard hitter, his whole batting style was accumulation and reaching Australia to a respectable score when there was a collapse, or being the anchor to middle order. That wouldn't fly in this era. The likes of Buttler have completely changed what finisher used to mean. Averages don't mean anything, it's all about strike rate now. Bevan was a good batsman for his era but I wouldn't put him in lower middle order for any team now.
    Capabilities and awareness both matter if you have to win a game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by warcry View Post
    the standard of bowling was higher in the nineties. no bangladesh like teams to boost your stats against. even zimbabwe was a respectable team. Pitches were harder to bat on.
    Bevan was a far better batsman than so-called ATGs of todays era.
    bowlers of today's era could also be better because some of them have an average of under 25 in a batting friendly era.
    Last edited by tyron_woodley; 4th August 2019 at 11:15.

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    logic suggests that when pakistan dominated in 90s the bowling was much harder to face back then in a extrmely bowling friendly era which probably made those so called greats look better than they actually are. Since pakistan at present is slightly inferior to their great 90's era teams, it's now far easier to bat because the quality of bowlers has declined.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    bowlers of today's era could also be better because some of them have an average of under 25 in a batting friendly era.
    those bowlers with an average less than 25, over a considerable timeframe (5+ years) are outliers. such bowlers exist in every era of cricket.

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    Bevan was a brilliant player but I would have Ponting, de Villiers, Kohli, Gilchrist and Dhoni ahead in the list because those guys had more responsibility over their career playing all formats of the game and neither was Bevan a captain of Australian side during his days or an all- rounder.

    So,I felt he didnt really had to deal with the workload these guys have gone through and they have been highly instrumental in their team success as Bevan have been.

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    Bevan was a top class ODI batsman but I can't call him the best.

    Also, Bevan was effective in his era. He might not have been effective in today's time.


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    Yes he is better than Kohli, AB and Dhoni,

    2nd greatest odi batsman of all time after Viv Richards and played a key role in Aus winning WC and many important matches.


    Sarfi as captain'll lead us to glory.Babar'll be our best odi bat & Haris'll be world class in tests

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    Quote Originally Posted by SarfiBabarHaris View Post
    Yes he is better than Kohli, AB and Dhoni,

    2nd greatest odi batsman of all time after Viv Richards and played a key role in Aus winning WC and many important matches.
    Not better than dhoni.
    His big hitting abilities weren't up to the mark and he would have struggled to finish in matches which required chasing high scores.
    I read somewhere that he has the most percentage of runs in singles and doubles, basically he was good fro scoring 250-260 scores not more.

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    He was the best finisher in the game when people did not know what finishing was.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jeeteshssaxena View Post
    Not better than dhoni.
    His big hitting abilities weren't up to the mark and he would have struggled to finish in matches which required chasing high scores.
    I read somewhere that he has the most percentage of runs in singles and doubles, basically he was good fro scoring 250-260 scores not more.
    Dhoni came at a time when wicket for ODIs were specialized and therefore big hitting became easier and necessary. Dhoni would have failed and out of team before he even got started on test match style wicket that Bevan played on. The biggest proof of this is two WCs in England 99 and 2019 what a difference 20 years has made to cricket.

    On the odd occasion bevan played on ODI style wickets on modern era was that match against Asia vs the rest of the world and he got something like 185*.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakhs View Post
    Dhoni came at a time when wicket for ODIs were specialized and therefore big hitting became easier and necessary. Dhoni would have failed and out of team before he even got started on test match style wicket that Bevan played on. The biggest proof of this is two WCs in England 99 and 2019 what a difference 20 years has made to cricket.

    On the odd occasion bevan played on ODI style wickets on modern era was that match against Asia vs the rest of the world and he got something like 185*.
    Oh come on ,it is easier to hit on flat wickets but if you say that even dravid would have had a str rate of 90s on flat pitches then you are delusional.
    Anyone who has eyes can clearly see the difference between dhawan and dravids hitting abilities,similarly anyone can see the difference between bevan and dhonis hitting abilities.
    ODIS in 90s were played on better wickets but they surely werent test match wickets,dhoni thrives on ldifficult odi wickets,i am sure he would have done as good as bevan in 90s.

    Thirdly MS Dhoni is a better test batsman than michael Bevan(as evident by their stats),whar makes you think that the former would have difficulties in adapting to 90s era.?

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    Viv is the goat no doubt

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    Quote Originally Posted by jeeteshssaxena View Post
    Oh come on ,it is easier to hit on flat wickets but if you say that even dravid would have had a str rate of 90s on flat pitches then you are delusional.
    Anyone who has eyes can clearly see the difference between dhawan and dravids hitting abilities,similarly anyone can see the difference between bevan and dhonis hitting abilities.
    ODIS in 90s were played on better wickets but they surely werent test match wickets,dhoni thrives on ldifficult odi wickets,i am sure he would have done as good as bevan in 90s.

    Thirdly MS Dhoni is a better test batsman than michael Bevan(as evident by their stats),whar makes you think that the former would have difficulties in adapting to 90s era.?
    I never said even dravid would have had a strike rate of over 90s. Dhoni has a better big hitting game than Bevan but really this kind of game only became fashionable due to wickets changed to suit this kind of cricket. The reason why we didnt have power hitters before 2000 is because wickets didnt suit these kind of players. Dhoni was lucky he came at a time when wickets were ideally suited to his kind of batting and same can be said for bevan to some extent because maybe he would have struggled to finish games at higher strike rate but that was never needed during his era. During Bevan era every 6 was an event and potentially match winning.

    In cricket Pitches are the the biggest variable and that is just reality.

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    Michael Bevan is the greatest ODI finisher for me. For many years I was on team Dhoni (2007-2013~), but his performances in the last 4-5 years have pegged him back to #2 behind Bevan. Klusener is #3 for me. Maybe a few knocks from Dhoni can put him back up but that remains to be seen.

    As for the discussion around quality of cricketers.. it's true that we tend to glorify the players who we watched growing up. This is the same in most entertainment industries.. be it music, movies, etc. Cricket has changed so much that it's very hard to compare across eras. The conditions of 80s-90s are drastically different from the past decade or so. The fundamentals have changed with bats being thicker, lighter and better, with boundaries being pulled in, and with pitches being flattened. The laws of the game have also been changed with free hits, two new balls, power plays being introduced among other things.

    It's simply put a different game. It would be unfair to ask a contemporary batsman/bowler to go play with the equipment, laws and pitch/ground conditions from 25 years ago. It's similarly disingenuous to think that the bowlers from yesteryear would rip batting lineups to pieces in the current world. I always prefer comparing batsmen to their contemporaries, and going back to the OT, it's why Bevan was so great. Compare him to the batsmen that played in his era and you won't find a finisher anywhere near his calibre until Klusener came along. The difference is that Bevan did it for his entire career whereas Klusener really only hit a purple patch.


    Have the players going forward, just need coaching&professionalism! #1 priority: fielding

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    Quote Originally Posted by SarfiBabarHaris View Post
    Yes he is better than Kohli, AB and Dhoni,

    2nd greatest odi batsman of all time after Viv Richards and played a key role in Aus winning WC and many important matches.
    ABD >>>>>> Bevan. It's an insult to ABD comparing him to a guy who batted at 70 SR.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by docteurmanish View Post
    bevan was a delight .didnt have power game . bewan at his peak was 80 percent of dhoni only cos dhoni had power game and all that bewan offered

    bewan had good support from aussie tail - barring mcgrath everyone batted .

    its unfair to compare him . bewan and dhoni are perhaps the best chasers along with kohli

    where bewan looses perhapsis first innings blitzkreig . not seen him play great first innings totals
    I think that's a fair summary of Bevan. I'm Aussie and even I wouldn't put Bevan forward as the greatest ODI batsman.

    He was an extremely good chaser. Very calm & very clever. Superb athlete & runner between the wickets which- combined with his brains & batting touch- allowed him to target weak fieldsmen & exploit them for constant turning 1s into 2s.

    That method would not be quite as effective today as fielding standards are higher- the very best teams today just do not have many weak fielders. So a power game is more essential. Scores are also higher, reinforcing the need for a power game.

    So he was an outstanding bat, but limited. Excellent but not in the the GOAT category.

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    Don't be distracted by Bevan's low strike rate. Bevan did for Australia what Stokes did for England in the CW 2019 final. Bevan played those innings time after time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Gomes View Post
    ABD >>>>>> Bevan. It's an insult to ABD comparing him to a guy who batted at 70 SR.
    Lol it's insult that choker and guy who runs away when team needs him most is being compared with ODI Goat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wrongun View Post
    I think that's a fair summary of Bevan. I'm Aussie and even I wouldn't put Bevan forward as the greatest ODI batsman.

    He was an extremely good chaser. Very calm & very clever. Superb athlete & runner between the wickets which- combined with his brains & batting touch- allowed him to target weak fieldsmen & exploit them for constant turning 1s into 2s.

    That method would not be quite as effective today as fielding standards are higher- the very best teams today just do not have many weak fielders. So a power game is more essential. Scores are also higher, reinforcing the need for a power game.

    So he was an outstanding bat, but limited. Excellent but not in the the GOAT category.
    You are also allowed to bowl short in ODI cricket these days, which people keep forgetting about the mythical old days when limited overs cricket was so much better than test cricket.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam99 View Post
    Lol it's insult that choker and guy who runs away when team needs him most is being compared with ODI Goat.
    That choker is 100x capable of doing what Bevan ever did, blindfolded, in any format.

  51. #51
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    Greatest ODI batsman of all time.

    Tendulkar has more runs, Sir Vivian Richards the better SR, and he may only have a HS of 108* but nobody has played more clutch knocks.

    In every significant AUS victory during that period, Bevan had a heavy hand.

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    Bevan was overrated.. In an era of quality fast bowling,he would face bowlers who already have done their job with the new ball, and the wicket has become flat and hardly anything for bowlers with old ball.

    Apart from that,he never had much responsibility like captaincy, wicket-keeping,test matches workload etc..

    I put him behind

    Viv
    SRT
    Ponting
    AB
    Kohli
    Dhoni
    Gilchrist

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Bevan was overrated.. In an era of quality fast bowling,he would face bowlers who already have done their job with the new ball, and the wicket has become flat and hardly anything for bowlers with old ball.

    Apart from that,he never had much responsibility like captaincy, wicket-keeping,test matches workload etc..

    I put him behind

    Viv
    SRT
    Ponting
    AB
    Kohli
    Dhoni
    Gilchrist
    Also put Jayasuriya in the list above, the man who rebolutionized quick scoring in batting powerplay (which changed ODIs completely). Bevan's style of finishing was outdated by 2005, he wouldn't get into any top 5 team now with his atrocious SR (current finishers have 100+ SR, elite ones like Buttler have 120+). Gilchrist actually did the heavy lifting with his 95 SR.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Gomes View Post
    Also put Jayasuriya in the list above, the man who rebolutionized quick scoring in batting powerplay (which changed ODIs completely). Bevan's style of finishing was outdated by 2005, he wouldn't get into any top 5 team now with his atrocious SR (current finishers have 100+ SR, elite ones like Buttler have 120+). Gilchrist actually did the heavy lifting with his 95 SR.
    Not necessary on Bevan's part. He would have done well in this era as well. Just felt others were more valuable to their team as they had diverse roles. Dhoni and Hussey are examples. And not like Bevan opened the batting against so called quality bowling era of 90s that it was so hard or faced new ball.

    Regarding Jayasuriya,he was great too. Will be in top ten,but his average of 21 and 24 Vs Aus and SA hold against him.
    Last edited by Ab Fan; 10th August 2019 at 17:33.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam99 View Post
    Lol it's insult that choker and guy who runs away when team needs him most is being compared with ODI Goat.
    AB ain't a choker.

    No cricketer apart from Viv Richards have an average over 60 in the biggest stage of the cricket(World Cup) among players who have 1000+ runs in WC. Given he batted at a SR of 117, this makes it even far more appreciating.

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    Some people look to be to hipster or loving over hyping the best. Bevan is great but I would take AB and Dhoni over him.

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    My god the level of under-rating for Bevan is crazy.

    I have seen him play and score runs everywhere when many great batsmen were lulooing around.

    He is GOAT material.

    Guys who think he cant make it in todays era are so wrong.

    He would have striked at 80 atleast and made his runs count. Wouldn't have been an explosive bat but could have
    scored at higher clip on pattas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ManFan View Post
    Greatest ODI batsman of all time.

    Tendulkar has more runs, Sir Vivian Richards the better SR, and he may only have a HS of 108* but nobody has played more clutch knocks.

    In every significant AUS victory during that period, Bevan had a heavy hand.
    He was the most scariest bat for me.

    The way he played with the lower order after Aus were reduced to 200-6 chasing 260 odd against India, and turned an almost loss into an easy win to clinch a series is etched on my mind.

    And it's one of his forgotten knocks.

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    Another aspect was that Bevan was not a stat booster. Hard to stat boost those days compared to today.

    You could see his impact on the field.

    Stats are a bonus for him.

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    Aus owe one WC to Bevan.

    And if not for freak Aravinda De Silva, Aus would owe 2 WCs to Bevan.

    The knocks he played under extreme pressure on a tough wicket against ATG bowlers in WC semifinals (96 and 99) was wow.

    Find me a single batsman in the history of cricket who played 2 such knocks in a WC against ATG bowlers in such a dire situation on a tough pitch.

    I can't think of any.

    Not even Viv.

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    15-4 in 1996 SF against Ambrose and co.

    Bevan wins the match.

    68-4 in 1999 SF against Donald and co.

    Waugh is the hero of the game but he actually got out earlier. Bevan stayed on till the end. After him, no one except Warne scored.

    Aus win that game.

    This is performance.

    This is clutch.

    This is impact.

    This is GOAT level stuff.

    Meanwhile in the modern world... Fans are waiting for one decent knockout knock by Kohli to pronounce him the GOAT.
    Last edited by sensible-indian-fan; 11th August 2019 at 03:51.

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    Viv is still the GOAT for me. Bevan probably makes top 10.

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    The amount of people overrating Bevan is crazy. About time the nostalgia goggles came out into display.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    My god the level of under-rating for Bevan is crazy.

    I have seen him play and score runs everywhere when many great batsmen were lulooing around.

    He is GOAT material.

    Guys who think he cant make it in todays era are so wrong.

    He would have striked at 80 atleast and made his runs count. Wouldn't have been an explosive bat but could have
    scored at higher clip on pattas.
    80 str rate is very very low in this era for a no. 6 batsman, this is the exact reason why Dhoni gets criticised.
    Secondly, it is much easier to play a good innings down the order in a pressure match, you don't have to face the new ball against pace spearheads.
    This is how dhoni pulls a 50 everytime our team collapses.
    Bevan in this era would have been nothing different to dhoni(2019).A great chaser of 250 scores.

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    These two videos from the same match encapsulate how pathetic Bevan was against the short ball, and how he'd be unlikely to replicate his performances in modern ODI cricket:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sJGrlPJ8ZQ&t=109

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sJGrlPJ8ZQ&t=841
    Last edited by Last Monetarist; 11th August 2019 at 09:31.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    15-4 in 1996 SF against Ambrose and co.

    Bevan wins the match.

    68-4 in 1999 SF against Donald and co.

    Waugh is the hero of the game but he actually got out earlier. Bevan stayed on till the end. After him, no one except Warne scored.

    Aus win that game.

    This is performance.

    This is clutch.

    This is impact.

    This is GOAT level stuff.

    Meanwhile in the modern world... Fans are waiting for one decent knockout knock by Kohli to pronounce him the GOAT.
    And that final ball boundary against WI to win the match.

    And the chase against England during 2003 WC, if you remember those matches .

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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    He was the most scariest bat for me.

    The way he played with the lower order after Aus were reduced to 200-6 chasing 260 odd against India, and turned an almost loss into an easy win to clinch a series is etched on my mind.

    And it's one of his forgotten knocks.
    I think he’s being underrated on this forum because he was never a big-hitter or a consistent boundary-hitter.

    He played probably THE greatest ODI innings in 2000 in the Asia XO vs R.O.W when he scored 185* at a SR of 140 (next highest score is 28) against an attack of...

    Akram
    Vaas
    Murali
    Razzaq
    Kumble

    in Asia chasing 320.


    "Preventive war is like committing suicide for fear of death" ~ Otto Von Bismarck

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    Quote Originally Posted by jeeteshssaxena View Post
    80 str rate is very very low in this era for a no. 6 batsman, this is the exact reason why Dhoni gets criticised.
    Secondly, it is much easier to play a good innings down the order in a pressure match, you don't have to face the new ball against pace spearheads.
    This is how dhoni pulls a 50 everytime our team collapses.
    Bevan in this era would have been nothing different to dhoni(2019).A great chaser of 250 scores.
    Nah i disagree bhai.

    Dhoni is criticized cos he wastes too many balls and then stat boosts when its too late beating up some poor bowler on a tptal patta.

    Moreover Dhoni strikes at 60 or 70 against spinners these days.

    80 SR in todays context is fine if you pace yourself well and take the game deep and win it.

    Aus have enough hitters to make up. And remember India had Yuvi and Raina taking risks to aid Dhoni so its not like Dhoni was a one man show.

    Also in total pattas, Bevan wouldnt be striking at 80 but closer to 100.

    Not sure if you have watched him bat but as a pure bat he is as good as Dhoni if not better. Except for hitting.

    Against quality bowlers in pressure situations, he is way better than Dhoni.

    Both are legendary finishers but Bevan never gets his due.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Gomes View Post
    The amount of people overrating Bevan is crazy. About time the nostalgia goggles came out into display.
    Nah man.

    You have seen me rating other cricketers and I have been on point mostly.

    Bevan was too good bro.

    He has everything... Stats, impact, pressure games.. Everything.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManFan View Post
    I think he’s being underrated on this forum because he was never a big-hitter or a consistent boundary-hitter.

    He played probably THE greatest ODI innings in 2000 in the Asia XO vs R.O.W when he scored 185* at a SR of 140 (next highest score is 28) against an attack of...

    Akram
    Vaas
    Murali
    Razzaq
    Kumble

    in Asia chasing 320.
    He would have won the game had the other guy run properly lol.

    Look at his demeanour.

    Cool, calm and collected.

    Just a small sample of what Bevan may have been in today's era.

    He wouldn't have batted like this every game but he would have scored at a better clip.

    He is a guy who knows how to pace his innings scoring at an appropriate SR so he would have been fine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Last Monetarist View Post
    These two videos from the same match encapsulate how pathetic Bevan was against the short ball, and how he'd be unlikely to replicate his performances in modern ODI cricket:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sJGrlPJ8ZQ&t=109

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sJGrlPJ8ZQ&t=841
    I can post many sucjclips that will humiliate many ATGs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiger96 View Post
    And that final ball boundary against WI to win the match.

    And the chase against England during 2003 WC, if you remember those matches .
    I vaguely remember those. Haha.

    He won some games against NZ in early 2000s with some outrageously gutsy batting.

    65-5
    82-6
    143-7

    Chases 246 with 2 wickets in hand.

    102 off 95 balls.

    Lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    I can post many sucjclips that will humiliate many ATGs.
    I can post more clips from the SA tour preceding that Ashes series, where he was on the hop against Donald and Schultz. People vastly more qualified than you and me chastised him because of his technique against the short ball, which was pretty much tailender level.

    The short ball laws in limited overs cricket during the 90s were ludicrous, it was not until 2001 that bowlers were allowed to bowl a delivery which could bounce as high as a batsman's shoulder.

    If he played today, the likes of Rabada, Ferguson, Bumrah, Shami, Archer would have exploited that weakness to the fullest, just as Suresh Raina was exposed at the highest level eventually.

    Bevan's not even regarded by Australian fans as their best ODI batsman of all time, with most rating the likes of Dean Jones much higher on the pantheon. Bevan was a product of his time, mentally tough as nails but ultimately limited.
    Last edited by Last Monetarist; 11th August 2019 at 19:23.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Last Monetarist View Post
    I can post more clips from the SA tour preceding that Ashes series, where he was on the hop against Donald and Schultz. People vastly more qualified than you and me chastised him because of his technique against the short ball, which was pretty much tailender level.

    The short ball laws in limited overs cricket during the 90s were ludicrous, it was not until 2001 that bowlers were allowed to bowl a delivery which could bounce as high as a batsman's shoulder.

    If he played today, the likes of Rabada, Ferguson, Bumrah, Shami, Archer would have exploited that weakness to the fullest, just as Suresh Raina was exposed at the highest level eventually.

    Bevan's not even regarded by Australian fans as their best ODI batsman of all time, with most rating the likes of Dean Jones much higher on the pantheon. Bevan was a product of his time, mentally tough as nails but ultimately limited.
    Do explain what the short ball rules in 90s were.

    The pitches in 90s were far more ridiculous compared to today's times.

    As for Aussies, they regard him Bevan very very highly in LOI.

    If he played today, the likes of Rabada, Ferguson, Bumrah, Shami, Archer would have exploited that weakness to the fullest, just as Suresh Raina was exposed at the highest level eventually.
    Bevan is light years better than Raina and I say this as a MASSIVE Raina fan.

    And Raina was a GUN ODI batsman.

    Inspite of his weakness, he won countless games for India including a WC.

    Bevan scored everywhere unlike others (including legends) in 90s.

    Bevan in today's era would have plundered runs left, right and centre where you can be an okayish bat and still average 45.

    Bevan averaged 60+ in 90s and won games for his team.

    ----

    Rabada was hailed as potential GOAT (and he may very well be) but what happened in the WC?

    He was thrashed around like a club bowler in this WC on pitches which HAD something for the bowlers.

    Bevan faced a ton of amazing bowlers on tougher pitches.

    Including rampaging Ambrose and Donald in WC knockouts and came out trumps.

    You think he wouldn't be able to Rabada of WC 2019?

    You sure?

    ----

    I have seen Bevan in action so I am speaking from experience and not stats.

    As long as he was on the crease, the match wasn't over and he was insanely good at gunning down targets.


    I am not one of you. I never was. I am not one of them either.

  75. #75
    Debut
    Aug 2010
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    I did a stats thread (in Jan 19) taking era average and era strike rate into consideration Bevan was right up there with the best. The table gave equal weight-age to both Avg and SR.
    http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/sh...te-across-eras

    Top 25 players (min 100 ODI)

    Rank Player Mat Runs Ave SR 100 Era SR Era Avg SR/ Era SR Avg/ EraAAvg Result
    1 IVA Richards 186 6716 47.3 90.2 11 65.92 29.32 1.37 1.61 2.21
    2 AB de Villiers 227 9577 53.5 101.1 25 80.61 32.77 1.25 1.63 2.05
    3 V Kohli 222 10533 59.51 92.59 39 81.95 33.24 1.13 1.79 2.02
    4 MG Bevan 231 6909 53.98 74.21 6 72.45 30.84 1.02 1.75 1.79
    5 MS Dhoni 333 10363 51.56 87.9 10 80.24 32.65 1.1 1.58 1.73
    6 MEK Hussey 185 5442 48.16 87.17 3 77.6 31.67 1.12 1.52 1.71
    7 SR Tendulkar 463 18426 44.83 86.24 49 73.87 31.13 1.17 1.44 1.68
    8 HM Amla 172 7896 49.97 89.24 27 81.95 33.24 1.09 1.5 1.64
    9 DM Jones 164 6068 44.62 72.57 7 66.77 29.91 1.09 1.49 1.62
    10 JC Buttler 121 3142 39.28 116.76 6 83.83 34.01 1.39 1.15 1.61
    11 A Symonds 195 5066 40.21 92.39 6 75.04 31.15 1.23 1.29 1.59
    12 RG Sharma 199 7799 48.14 88.61 22 81.49 33.1 1.09 1.45 1.58
    13 JE Root 121 4946 51.52 86.44 13 84.4 34.12 1.02 1.51 1.55
    14 S Dhawan 121 5159 45.65 93.7 15 82.59 33.61 1.13 1.36 1.54
    15 V Sehwag 249 8261 35.15 104.37 15 76.07 31.44 1.37 1.12 1.53
    16 ML Hayden 158 6131 44.11 78.99 10 73.41 30.92 1.08 1.43 1.53
    17 DA Warner 106 4343 43.43 96.55 14 82.27 33.4 1.17 1.3 1.53
    18 AC Gilchrist 282 9616 36.01 97.01 16 74.19 31 1.31 1.16 1.52
    19 CG Greenidge 127 5130 45.4 64.9 11 65.92 29.32 0.98 1.55 1.52
    20 LRPL Taylor 213 7853 47.88 83.14 20 80.81 32.84 1.03 1.46 1.5
    21 AJ Lamb 122 4010 39.31 75.55 4 66.66 29.74 1.13 1.32 1.5
    22 SR Watson 175 5620 41.32 90.41 9 78.37 32.03 1.15 1.29 1.49
    23 Saeed Anwar 247 8824 39.22 80.67 20 71 30.68 1.14 1.28 1.45
    24 RT Ponting 373 13694 42.14 80.38 30 75.2 31.27 1.07 1.35 1.44
    25 BC Lara 298 10365 40.33 79.5 19 72.51 30.84 1.1 1.31 1.43
    Last edited by jeetu; 12th August 2019 at 10:54.


    Aaj ka kaam kal karo, Kal ka kaam parson. Aisi bhi jaldi kya hai, Jab jeena hai barson.

  76. #76
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    no doubt is was the best odi batsman , do not judge the performance on bases of average he was a good finisher ... in cricket history


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