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  1. #1
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    480,000-507,000 people were killed in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iraq in the wake of 9/11 attacks

    At least half a million people in Afghanistan, Iraq and Pakistan have been killed due to the so-called "war on terror" launched by the United States in the wake of September 11, 2001 attack, according to a study published on Thursday.

    The report by the Brown University's Watson Institute for International and Public Affairs put the death toll between 480,000 and 507,000.

    But the paper acknowledged that the numbers of people killed is an "undercount" due to limitations in reporting and "great uncertainty in any count of killing in war".

    "We may never know the total direct death toll in these wars," wrote Nera Crawford, the author of the paper titled "Human Cost of the Post-9/11 Wars: Lethality and the Need for Transparency".

    "For example, tens of thousands of civilians may have died in retaking Mosul and other cities from ISIS [also known as ISIL] but their bodies have likely not been recovered."

    The report states that between 182,272 and 204,575 civilians have been killed in Iraq, 38,480 in Afghanistan, and 23,372 in Pakistan.


    'War remains intense'

    Nearly 7,000 US troops were killed in Iraq and Afghanistan in the same time period.

    The death toll includes civilians, armed fighters, local police and security forces, and US and allied troops.

    People who were indirectly killed as a result of war, such as through disease or bad infrastructure, were not included in the report.

    In a statement, Brown University said the new toll "is a more than 110,000 increase over the last count, issued just two years ago in August 2016".

    "Though the war on terror is often overlooked by the American public, press and lawmakers, the increased body count signals that, far from diminishing, this war remains intense."

    As an example, the US war in Afghanistan, which has been the country's longest military invasion for 17 years, has lessened in intensity in recent years, but the number of civilians in 2018 has been one of the highest death tolls in the war.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/...080620011.html


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  2. #2
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    Most of the deaths are caused by Muslim on Muslim violence.

    Agreed that had America not poked its nose in the middle east and Afghan affairs, many of these deaths could have been avoided. Democracy is hard to implement in middle east.

  3. #3
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    The Middle East does not want democracy. Leave them alone letting them implement whatever they want. Musharraf allowed the Americans to kill Pakistanis at the time. This can not be denied.


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

  4. #4
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    Im not sure what these millions of people had to do with 911. The US governments and it's allies have only proved they are the real terrorists.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by troodon View Post
    Most of the deaths are caused by Muslim on Muslim violence.

    Agreed that had America not poked its nose in the middle east and Afghan affairs, many of these deaths could have been avoided. Democracy is hard to implement in middle east.
    Basically these deaths wouldn't be there if there was no 9/11 or Aghan/Iraq invasion.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahmedzee View Post
    Basically these deaths wouldn't be there if there was no 9/11 or Aghan/Iraq invasion.
    They would be there but just not on such a grand scale. Shias-Sunnis, Catholics-Protestants etc all want to show how their version of religion is right and will/have and will kill each other in the future to prove it. The lawlessness and power vacuum just gave them the opportunity to kill with impunity.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by troodon View Post
    Most of the deaths are caused by Muslim on Muslim violence.

    Agreed that had America not poked its nose in the middle east and Afghan affairs, many of these deaths could have been avoided. Democracy is hard to implement in middle east.
    Maybe the middle east is better off without democracy if it leads to a few less deaths by the odd half million or so. Not like they were the chosen people or something.


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by PakLFC View Post
    The Middle East does not want democracy. Leave them alone letting them implement whatever they want. Musharraf allowed the Americans to kill Pakistanis at the time. This can not be denied.
    can i just point out its very rich for America to say that when they are funding the vast majority of dictators in the region.

    Really the issue as that the people who will win the elections arent who America and others in the west wants to win, and so they are more comfotable with an endless cycle of violence as long as the taps to the oil keeps going


    "Last time Uganda toured Canada, half their team ran away to start a new life" - cricfan967

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadBall View Post
    They would be there but just not on such a grand scale. Shias-Sunnis, Catholics-Protestants etc all want to show how their version of religion is right and will/have and will kill each other in the future to prove it. The lawlessness and power vacuum just gave them the opportunity to kill with impunity.
    Completely disagree. These ethnic violence were not there during saddam days.

  10. #10
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    RIP to each of the 500,000 people, but can I just make a point that everyone else in Afghanistan and Iraq will likely emigrate to the US in a heartbeat if given a chance? So much for anger at the big satan the USA.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by pakistanigoneaussie View Post
    can i just point out its very rich for America to say that when they are funding the vast majority of dictators in the region.

    Really the issue as that the people who will win the elections arent who America and others in the west wants to win, and so they are more comfotable with an endless cycle of violence as long as the taps to the oil keeps going
    Can't really blame America here who are doing what's right for them. The Muslim's, in particular the Arab's are so stupid that they have no bargaining power left. America can do whatever it wants with them I am afraid. Arab's don't even have a decent army between them. America is funding these greedy Arab dictators coz they are up for sale.


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    RIP to each of the 500,000 people, but can I just make a point that everyone else in Afghanistan and Iraq will likely emigrate to the US in a heartbeat if given a chance? So much for anger at the big satan the USA.
    I don't even know why you bothered with the fake RIP sentiment, countries which get bombed to the stone age generally produce a lot of refugees, regardless of whether they are welcomed to the country which are doing the bombing.


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    RIP to each of the 500,000 people, but can I just make a point that everyone else in Afghanistan and Iraq will likely emigrate to the US in a heartbeat if given a chance? So much for anger at the big satan the USA.
    Where would Indian move to if they were to be bombed to stone ages? Most probably the country that bombed them.

    And just because US took some as refugees then people shouldn’t criticize?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by PakLFC View Post
    Can't really blame America here who are doing what's right for them. The Muslim's, in particular the Arab's are so stupid that they have no bargaining power left. America can do whatever it wants with them I am afraid. Arab's don't even have a decent army between them. America is funding these greedy Arab dictators coz they are up for sale.
    I have always maintained that muslims are their own worst enemies but that doesn’t we should let America pontificate on democracy when no other country has overthrown more democracies anywhere let alone the Middle East.


    "Last time Uganda toured Canada, half their team ran away to start a new life" - cricfan967

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    RIP to each of the 500,000 people, but can I just make a point that everyone else in Afghanistan and Iraq will likely emigrate to the US in a heartbeat if given a chance? So much for anger at the big satan the USA.

    So that makes it right? Come on you are smart have some more nuance than that. American forgein policy post Monroe doctrine has been one of “intervention”

    Democracy is great as long as it doesn’t go counter to their interests. Muslims have themselves to blame the most but don’t through out lazy stuff like the big Satan. Morality is non existent when it comes to international relations


    "Last time Uganda toured Canada, half their team ran away to start a new life" - cricfan967

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by pakistanigoneaussie View Post
    I have always maintained that muslims are their own worst enemies but that doesn’t we should let America pontificate on democracy when no other country has overthrown more democracies anywhere let alone the Middle East.
    America only forces itself on weak countries. Lets see them try to bully China or Russia!! Throughout human history the powerful have always oppressed the weak. It's nothing new.


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    RIP to each of the 500,000 people, but can I just make a point that everyone else in Afghanistan and Iraq will likely emigrate to the US in a heartbeat if given a chance? So much for anger at the big satan the USA.
    A disgraful post. You are better than this.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by PakLFC View Post
    America only forces itself on weak countries. Lets see them try to bully China or Russia!! Throughout human history the powerful have always oppressed the weak. It's nothing new.
    true it is nothing new. That doesnt mean we should buy into the propagnda. The only difference between the US and other hegenomic regimies has been that they actively promote democracy while countering it in every way.

    In regards to medical advancments and quality of life, that is nothing new. A lot of the worlds modern advancments on medicine and tehcnolgy came from Nazi germany , does that make them right?

    When the Ottomans were at the top, Popes' would complain that rich young nobles would want to learn arabic and turkish and travel to the middle east. Did that make the Ottoman's multiple conquests noble?

    Yes we should be self critical, but its such a cop out to say "why do people go there."

    Also yes this post isnt exactly directed at you


    "Last time Uganda toured Canada, half their team ran away to start a new life" - cricfan967

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by slipcatch View Post
    Where would Indian move to if they were to be bombed to stone ages? Most probably the country that bombed them.

    And just because US took some as refugees then people shouldn’t criticize?
    99% of Indians would move to America immediately and there aren't even bombs being dropped on them.

    Iraqi's and man Afghanis to have remained in the nation resisting the invading forces, something Indians could never match.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahmedzee View Post
    Completely disagree. These ethnic violence were not there during saddam days.
    Because Saddam knew how to handle them. He clipped any form of the most minor dissent in the bud. I am not saying he was right to do so, but that's how you maintain "relative" peace in those parts of the world.

  21. #21
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    Keep these numbers in mind and when time will come respond fire with hellfire.

  22. #22
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    You aren't being bombed and still every single Indian would leave India for the US in a heart beat, except for Sikhs they would all run off to Kaneda!


    Whenever Nawaz wins, he divides PMLN equally. He keeps PM for himself and gives L N to the people.

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    Seeing the staggering numbers people here are still asking why are only Muslim's violent in the name of religion. Coz they are the only ones being killed!


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

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    Yo @Azmi

    Where are you hiding? Truth too bitter for ya.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madplayer View Post
    A disgraful post. You are better than this.
    He is not.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadi Rizvi View Post
    Yo @Azmi

    Where are you hiding? Truth too bitter for ya.
    Don't mention me.

    I am no supporter of the American Government or any other western government. I blame them of creating Israel illegally, and then keeping a blind eye from Israel's illegal activities.

    But the Muslim Rulers are no different. All of them are ready to kill others for their interests. Saddam is hero of the Muslim population. This Saddam Hussain killed one million Iranians and no body knows how many of Iraqi Sunnis and Shias and Kurds. Actually Saddam killed 5000 Kurds in Halabcha in one night by using the chemical bomb.

    Saudi Arabia is no different and ready to kill the people for it's interests. We see it in Yemen.


    Anyhow, the Muslims extremists who are killing the innocent citizens, it has little to do with the American government, but it has mostly to do with their brainwashing where the want to impose their Sharia by sword as Islam orders them (at least in their opinion).

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by PakLFC View Post
    Seeing the staggering numbers people here are still asking why are only Muslim's violent in the name of religion. Coz they are the only ones being killed!
    I doubt it. These extremist Muslims are not attacking the American Government/Army here, but they are attacking the innocent civilians.

    It has more to do with their ideology where they are told that Islam wants them to impose their Sharia upon all the non Muslim countries by sword (at least in their opinion).

    This same ideology could be seen in Taliban. Pak Army didn't kill the Muslim Taliban, but Tehrik-e-Taliban considers Constitution of Pakistan to be Kafir and want to impose their Sharia Rules, and thus they are killing thousands of Pakistani civilians in suicide bombings every where.

    These Pakistani civilians or even the Pakistani Army didn't initially killed them. But it is the teachings of Islam which made them mad and making them to start killings.

    This same phenomenon is going on in Europe at moment.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azmi View Post
    Don't mention me.

    I am no supporter of the American Government or any other western government. I blame them of creating Israel illegally, and then keeping a blind eye from Israel's illegal activities.

    But the Muslim Rulers are no different. All of them are ready to kill others for their interests. Saddam is hero of the Muslim population. This Saddam Hussain killed one million Iranians and no body knows how many of Iraqi Sunnis and Shias and Kurds. Actually Saddam killed 5000 Kurds in Halabcha in one night by using the chemical bomb.

    Saudi Arabia is no different and ready to kill the people for it's interests. We see it in Yemen.


    Anyhow, the Muslims extremists who are killing the innocent citizens, it has little to do with the American government, but it has mostly to do with their brainwashing where the want to impose their Sharia by sword as Islam orders them (at least in their opinion).
    You clearly are ignorant on this subject. I can go into detail but the US is openly financing, supporting and providing weapons to terrorist groups in Syria. Basically they are hired mercenaries.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    You clearly are ignorant on this subject. I can go into detail but the US is openly financing, supporting and providing weapons to terrorist groups in Syria. Basically they are hired mercenaries.

    Off course US is supplying weapons to the Jihadists in Syria.

    But the main driving force is Islam behind their madness. US is only using their stupidity. Saudia and Turkey and Qatar are also using their stupidity and creating their own missionary armies in Syria.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azmi View Post
    Off course US is supplying weapons to the Jihadists in Syria.

    But the main driving force is Islam behind their madness. US is only using their stupidity. Saudia and Turkey and Qatar are also using their stupidity and creating their own missionary armies in Syria.
    You wrote "it has little to do with the American government". They are not only supplying but financing and giving orders. This is a bit more than little to do with it. lol.

    A lot of money has been given to them to fight ,this is their main reason alongside fighting Assad, religion is much lower down the list. Otherwise they would have been fighting Assad decades before they did.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  31. #31
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    This seems an underestimation - at least half a million may have died in Iraq alone.

    Never forget 15 out of the 19 hijackers on 9/11 were from Saudi Arabia yet the Royal Family paid little price for stoking extremist ideology throughout the world. Instead the world was led to believe Saddam Hussein was personally responsible for 9/11 to initiate a regime change long in the works by the neoconservative movement in the US who had designs on Iraqi oil.

    Not only that, but 9/11 itself was preventable had George Bush responded to repeated warnings from his own CIA in the months prior about the possibility of an Al-Qaeda plot to hijack aircraft and attack the World Trade Centre. There was the famous Aug 6th memo that stated "Bin Laden was determined to attack inside the United States" yet no action was taken due to an obsession over Iraq.

    And even then, these 17 years of war in Afghanistan could've been spared had the incompetent Donald Rumsfeld committed enough troops to the Tora Bora mountains in the autumn of 2001 and got Bin Laden then.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azmi View Post
    I doubt it. These extremist Muslims are not attacking the American Government/Army here, but they are attacking the innocent civilians.

    It has more to do with their ideology where they are told that Islam wants them to impose their Sharia upon all the non Muslim countries by sword (at least in their opinion).

    This same ideology could be seen in Taliban. Pak Army didn't kill the Muslim Taliban, but Tehrik-e-Taliban considers Constitution of Pakistan to be Kafir and want to impose their Sharia Rules, and thus they are killing thousands of Pakistani civilians in suicide bombings every where.

    These Pakistani civilians or even the Pakistani Army didn't initially killed them. But it is the teachings of Islam which made them mad and making them to start killings.

    This same phenomenon is going on in Europe at moment.
    This is cause they believe Americans are supporting those who oppress them that is often true.The American's do support dictatorships in Muslim countries and have been doing so for ages. As they are unable to reach America going to war with those they support is the only option. Strange how America backed these "terrorists" during the old USSR invasion of Afghanistan. If they want Shariah law then its their business providing they don't force it on others.

    Pak army killed Pak Taliban who were supported by outsiders like India in particular. Seems it has missed you that after the fauj's operations terrorism in Pak has reduced in massive numbers. There is no reason for Pak army to turn against the Afghan Taliban who have caused Pak no harm. This group simply wants to liberate Afghanistan from American people and their supporters.

    The teachings of Islam have nothing to do with it at all rather iit is just a people fighting to liberate their land. Of course many Pak politicians were in cahoots with the terrorists until the army took matters in to their own hands thereby eliminating them. What is happening in Europe is a reaction to all that is happening in Muslim countries. Not saying that Muslim counties don't have there own problems.


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by PakLFC View Post
    This is cause they believe Americans are supporting those who oppress them that is often true.The American's do support dictatorships in Muslim countries and have been doing so for ages. As they are unable to reach America going to war with those they support is the only option. Strange how America backed these "terrorists" during the old USSR invasion of Afghanistan. If they want Shariah law then its their business providing they don't force it on others.

    Pak army killed Pak Taliban who were supported by outsiders like India in particular. Seems it has missed you that after the fauj's operations terrorism in Pak has reduced in massive numbers. There is no reason for Pak army to turn against the Afghan Taliban who have caused Pak no harm. This group simply wants to liberate Afghanistan from American people and their supporters.

    The teachings of Islam have nothing to do with it at all rather iit is just a people fighting to liberate their land. Of course many Pak politicians were in cahoots with the terrorists until the army took matters in to their own hands thereby eliminating them. What is happening in Europe is a reaction to all that is happening in Muslim countries. Not saying that Muslim counties don't have there own problems.
    It is only the most stupid deception by Pakistanis that Tehrik Taliban of Pakistan are India's agents while Afghan Taliban are the true Muslims.

    Could you show us a single Fatwa by Afghan Taliban where they disassociated themselves by Pakistani Taliban?

    Could you show us a single fatwa by Afghan Taliban where they called Pakistani Taliban to be an Indian agents and asked the people to wage Jihad against Pakistani Taliban?

    Contrary to this, Mullah Fazalullah of Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan was DIRECTLY appointed by Mullah Umar of Afghan Taliban.

    Read this article by DAWN newspaper: Fazlullah’s appointment backed by Mullah Omar: report


    And actually the Afghan Taliban was itself a creation of US/Saudia/ISI. And it happened after Russians left Afghanistan in 1989.

    Taliban of Afghanistan came into being in 1993-1994 with the help of American weapons, Saudi money and ISI training.

    And this Afghani Taliban was itself fighting and killing the Muslims in name of imposing the pure Sharia Caliphate, just like Pakistani Taliban was fighting for imposition of pure Sharia caliphate in Pakistan.

    America was not present in Afghanistan till 2001, but during all that period (from 1994 to 2001), Afghan Taliban killed several hundred thousands of Muslims for imposition of it's brand of pure Islam.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    You wrote "it has little to do with the American government". They are not only supplying but financing and giving orders. This is a bit more than little to do with it. lol.

    A lot of money has been given to them to fight ,this is their main reason alongside fighting Assad, religion is much lower down the list. Otherwise they would have been fighting Assad decades before they did.
    You are wasting your time, this 'new member' is a committed Islamophobe and as far as he is concerned he would probably be happy if the number of dead Muslims was far higher. You can read his anti-Islamic essays in every thread over the past week. These people view Pakistani sites as an invitation to bring their reams of carefully assembled information to attack the religion. It is what they live for and we can only marvel at their passion and commitment as they type furiously away.


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    You are wasting your time, this 'new member' is a committed Islamophobe and as far as he is concerned he would probably be happy if the number of dead Muslims was far higher. You can read his anti-Islamic essays in every thread over the past week. These people view Pakistani sites as an invitation to bring their reams of carefully assembled information to attack the religion. It is what they live for and we can only marvel at their passion and commitment as they type furiously away.
    I don't think becoming personal is necessary.

    I am long a member of this forum, but in how many discussions I took part?

    And I was not even taking part here, but I was mentioned here as other member wanted to shame me by telling how many Muslims died at hands of America.

    And what is wrong in criticizing the religion in descent way? Muslims are present here many times more than us. And they are totally free to answer any criticism and preach.

    If you people think you are on the TRUTH, then you people should be confident enough about your religion, and actually you should say WELCOME to any and all criticism.


    And regarding your comments that I wish death upon the Muslims who are living in the West, then you are highly misunderstanding me. Actually you don't know me enough to make any opinion. You should take more time before coming to any conclusion about a person whom you hardly knows.

    I am not only an atheist, but also a humanist. I absolutely don't want any death or harm upon Normal Muslims. But the wave of Right Wing Europeans is not going to differentiate between Extremist Muslims or Moderate Muslims, or even the Asian Atheists. All are going to be killed. Even an Indian Hindu will also suffer at the hands of right wing Europeans.

    Normal Muslims are dearer to me as humans than any right wing atheist. Humanity stands first.

    But normal Muslims should learn to disassociate themselves from the extremists. If they fail in doing it (and they are failing), then future does not seem good.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azmi View Post
    I don't think becoming personal is necessary.

    I am long a member of this forum, but in how many discussions I took part?

    And I was not even taking part here, but I was mentioned here as other member wanted to shame me by telling how many Muslims died at hands of America.

    And what is wrong in criticizing the religion in descent way? Muslims are present here many times more than us. And they are totally free to answer any criticism and preach.

    If you people think you are on the TRUTH, then you people should be confident enough about your religion, and actually you should say WELCOME to any and all criticism.


    And regarding your comments that I wish death upon the Muslims who are living in the West, then you are highly misunderstanding me. Actually you don't know me enough to make any opinion. You should take more time before coming to any conclusion about a person whom you hardly knows.

    I am not only an atheist, but also a humanist. I absolutely don't want any death or harm upon Normal Muslims. But the wave of Right Wing Europeans is not going to differentiate between Extremist Muslims or Moderate Muslims, or even the Asian Atheists. All are going to be killed. Even an Indian Hindu will also suffer at the hands of right wing Europeans.

    Normal Muslims are dearer to me as humans than any right wing atheist. Humanity stands first.

    But normal Muslims should learn to disassociate themselves from the extremists. If they fail in doing it (and they are failing), then future does not seem good.
    That wasn't a personal attack on you, merely an observation of your views which you yourself have affirmed. By all means carry on with your attacks on a singular religion, this site doesn't belong to me that I would stop you, by the same token you shouldn't feel offended if I comment either.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    That wasn't a personal attack on you, merely an observation of your views which you yourself have affirmed. By all means carry on with your attacks on a singular religion, this site doesn't belong to me that I would stop you, by the same token you shouldn't feel offended if I comment either.
    Personal comments and criticism is different than criticism upon the Issues.

    You can criticize Atheism as much as you will and I will always say welcome to you.

    And atheists are not against only one religion, but all the religions are criticized. But in order to criticize Hinduism, first I have to get same amount of knowledge about Hinduism as I have about Islam. And I have been studying Islam for decades. In present situation it is easy for me to criticize BJP and RSS and right wing Hindu activities as compared to the Hindu religion itself.

    If some people are already criticizing the same thing (i.e. RSS/BJP India) here, then I don't feel the need to to do it any more (just like in Islam if some people have read Namaz-e-Janaza, then it is not obligatory for others to say it too. It is known as Farz-Kafaya). But I have same problems with Hinduism as religion as I have with Islam. And Hindu extremists of RSS are as bad as Muslim extremists.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azmi View Post
    Personal comments and criticism is different than criticism upon the Issues.

    You can criticize Atheism as much as you will and I will always say welcome to you.

    And atheists are not against only one religion, but all the religions are criticized. But in order to criticize Hinduism, first I have to get same amount of knowledge about Hinduism as I have about Islam. And I have been studying Islam for decades. In present situation it is easy for me to criticize BJP and RSS and right wing Hindu activities as compared to the Hindu religion itself.

    If some people are already criticizing the same thing (i.e. RSS/BJP India) here, then I don't feel the need to to do it any more (just like in Islam if some people have read Namaz-e-Janaza, then it is not obligatory for others to say it too. It is known as Farz-Kafaya). But I have same problems with Hinduism as religion as I have with Islam. And Hindu extremists of RSS are as bad as Muslim extremists.
    My comments on your views are an observation, not a criticism.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Azmi View Post
    I don't think becoming personal is necessary.

    I am long a member of this forum, but in how many discussions I took part?

    And I was not even taking part here, but I was mentioned here as other member wanted to shame me by telling how many Muslims died at hands of America.

    And what is wrong in criticizing the religion in descent way? Muslims are present here many times more than us. And they are totally free to answer any criticism and preach.

    If you people think you are on the TRUTH, then you people should be confident enough about your religion, and actually you should say WELCOME to any and all criticism.


    And regarding your comments that I wish death upon the Muslims who are living in the West, then you are highly misunderstanding me. Actually you don't know me enough to make any opinion. You should take more time before coming to any conclusion about a person whom you hardly knows.

    I am not only an atheist, but also a humanist. I absolutely don't want any death or harm upon Normal Muslims. But the wave of Right Wing Europeans is not going to differentiate between Extremist Muslims or Moderate Muslims, or even the Asian Atheists. All are going to be killed. Even an Indian Hindu will also suffer at the hands of right wing Europeans.

    Normal Muslims are dearer to me as humans than any right wing atheist. Humanity stands first.

    But normal Muslims should learn to disassociate themselves from the extremists. If they fail in doing it (and they are failing), then future does not seem good.
    I wasn't shaming you.

    It was an attempt to expose your double standards and marvel at your (all of a sudden) "humanist" views.

    You call yourself a humanist, then write essays in different threads about how Islam and its teachings encourage violence and then you seem non-existent on any issue that is sympathetic towards Muslims.

    A 5 year old can see that such behaviour is anything but humanist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadi Rizvi View Post
    I wasn't shaming you.

    It was an attempt to expose your double standards and marvel at your (all of a sudden) "humanist" views.

    You call yourself a humanist, then write essays in different threads about how Islam and its teachings encourage violence and then you seem non-existent on any issue that is sympathetic towards Muslims.

    A 5 year old can see that such behaviour is anything but humanist.
    Religion kills people left and right in name of Jihad, in name of blasphemy, take innocent women and children as slaves, but still all praises to the religion. But if I fail to appear in one thread, then I am labelled as biggest killer and sinner.

    I have absolutely no problem with you personally. I respect all humans including moderate Muslims. For in name of respect for fellow Muslims, I should not be stopped from criticizing the religion.

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    Reminds me of when Genghis Khan butchered 25% of the population of Khwarezmia for beheading his three ambassadors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ManFan View Post
    Reminds me of when Genghis Khan butchered 25% of the population of Khwarezmia for beheading his three ambassadors.
    Why don't you remember Banu Qurayzah, who killed not a single Muslim, but still all 100% population, i.e. 800 men including 12-13 years old boys were slaughtered after they had already put down their weapons and allowed the Muslims to take them as prisoners.
    Killing the prisoners is not only considered a worst type of evil act today, but even in those days of ignorance it was considered a worst act.

    Whenever Muslim got victory, they also killed people and made remaining population their slaves and they spared no one from this humiliation.

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    Won't see poppies for these people. Hell I'm sure many see them as "collateral".

    But hey, brave soldiers, criticise all who refuse to bow to the military media machine.


    See You Space Cowboy....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azmi View Post
    It is only the most stupid deception by Pakistanis that Tehrik Taliban of Pakistan are India's agents while Afghan Taliban are the true Muslims.

    Could you show us a single Fatwa by Afghan Taliban where they disassociated themselves by Pakistani Taliban?

    Could you show us a single fatwa by Afghan Taliban where they called Pakistani Taliban to be an Indian agents and asked the people to wage Jihad against Pakistani Taliban?

    Contrary to this, Mullah Fazalullah of Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan was DIRECTLY appointed by Mullah Umar of Afghan Taliban.

    Read this article by DAWN newspaper: Fazlullah’s appointment backed by Mullah Omar: report


    And actually the Afghan Taliban was itself a creation of US/Saudia/ISI. And it happened after Russians left Afghanistan in 1989.

    Taliban of Afghanistan came into being in 1993-1994 with the help of American weapons, Saudi money and ISI training.

    And this Afghani Taliban was itself fighting and killing the Muslims in name of imposing the pure Sharia Caliphate, just like Pakistani Taliban was fighting for imposition of pure Sharia caliphate in Pakistan.

    America was not present in Afghanistan till 2001, but during all that period (from 1994 to 2001), Afghan Taliban killed several hundred thousands of Muslims for imposition of it's brand of pure Islam.
    It is not only Pakistanis but many Indians like Ajit Doval and others have admitted causing trouble in Pak. We see that after Pak army took massive action against these Indians and their stooges hiding in Afghanistan terrorism in Pak has greatly been reduced. How did that happen?

    I do not need to show you any Fatwa when it is enough that they have made it clear how they just want to liberate their country from the Americans. These Talibs were in governance prior to the invasion of Afghanistan yet never caused Pak any problems before 9/11. I am no fan of them at all...leave them alone and they will leave others alone as well. It is for the Afghan people to decide who should be in charge of their country not America or the west.

    If I were to show you any Fatwa you would say "How do I know it's true?" besides Fatwa's are not announced on the internet! The Afghan Taliban does not need to say anything, it is the Pak army who has sussed out over the years how the Pak Taliban was supported by the Indian's. There are millions of articles online by various writers, I choose to use my own head!

    That is America for you that during the USSR war the Taliban were America's pal's and now they are the enemy so you agree with me! It is simple, the Taliban in Afghanistan will always fight the invader no matter who they are, Russia, America, every man and his dog will be taken to the cleaners by them as we are seeing irrespective of who was supporting who in bygone wars.

    The Pak Talibs were as I said supported by India where as the Afghan Talibs want to liberate their country. As for your obsession with Sharia it is none of your business what system anyone else wants in their own country. Has it occurred to you that many countries do not want western type democracy by choice? Yeah the Taliban's Islam is not ideal coz they are are bunch of illiterates although I do not know how they killed thousands of Afghans prior to the invasion news from.


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azmi View Post
    Why don't you remember Banu Qurayzah, who killed not a single Muslim, but still all 100% population, i.e. 800 men including 12-13 years old boys were slaughtered after they had already put down their weapons and allowed the Muslims to take them as prisoners.
    Killing the prisoners is not only considered a worst type of evil act today, but even in those days of ignorance it was considered a worst act.

    Whenever Muslim got victory, they also killed people and made remaining population their slaves and they spared no one from this humiliation.
    If you actually read the facts of that entire campaign, you would realize that Genghis Khan was in the right. Ambassadors have an immunity to this day and that ancient code was violated.

    I was comparing the ratio of revenge.

    I get it. You don’t like Islam, no need to bring it into every conversation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ManFan View Post
    If you actually read the facts of that entire campaign, you would realize that Genghis Khan was in the right. Ambassadors have an immunity to this day and that ancient code was violated.

    I was comparing the ratio of revenge.

    I get it. You don’t like Islam, no need to bring it into every conversation.
    It is incumbent upon me to respect the fellow humans, but not their ideologies.

    Younger generations are not going to remember Chengiz Khan, but they will remember and fear ISIS now. And I am afraid that this fear will bring a strong reaction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PakLFC View Post
    It is not only Pakistanis but many Indians like Ajit Doval and others have admitted causing trouble in Pak. We see that after Pak army took massive action against these Indians and their stooges hiding in Afghanistan terrorism in Pak has greatly been reduced. How did that happen?

    I do not need to show you any Fatwa when it is enough that they have made it clear how they just want to liberate their country from the Americans. These Talibs were in governance prior to the invasion of Afghanistan yet never caused Pak any problems before 9/11. I am no fan of them at all...leave them alone and they will leave others alone as well. It is for the Afghan people to decide who should be in charge of their country not America or the west.

    If I were to show you any Fatwa you would say "How do I know it's true?" besides Fatwa's are not announced on the internet! The Afghan Taliban does not need to say anything, it is the Pak army who has sussed out over the years how the Pak Taliban was supported by the Indian's. There are millions of articles online by various writers, I choose to use my own head!

    That is America for you that during the USSR war the Taliban were America's pal's and now they are the enemy so you agree with me! It is simple, the Taliban in Afghanistan will always fight the invader no matter who they are, Russia, America, every man and his dog will be taken to the cleaners by them as we are seeing irrespective of who was supporting who in bygone wars.

    The Pak Talibs were as I said supported by India where as the Afghan Talibs want to liberate their country. As for your obsession with Sharia it is none of your business what system anyone else wants in their own country. Has it occurred to you that many countries do not want western type democracy by choice? Yeah the Taliban's Islam is not ideal coz they are are bunch of illiterates although I do not know how they killed thousands of Afghans prior to the invasion news from.

    I just hope that Pakistanis open up their eyes and don't run any more behind this mirage that Tehrik-e-Taliban are only Indian agents, otherwise there is no Problem of extremism in Pakistan. It is such a big self deception, which will cost a lot for Pakistan.

    After Tehrik-e-Taliban, another self deception would be to deny the extremism of Tehrik-e-Labaik of Khadim Rizwi and his millions of supporters.

    Boko Haram, ISIS, many Islamic Groups like in Syria, Taliban ... all of them will appear in Muslim countries and rivers of blood will flow where Muslims will be killed at the hands of these extremist Muslims. Their final aim is only one, and that is to impose their Islamic Caliphate system.

    They have been religiously brainwashed like the Khawarij of the past, who rebelled against the 4th Caliph in name of Islam, and then thousands of Sahaba and Tabeen were killed at the hands of each other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azmi View Post
    I just hope that Pakistanis open up their eyes and don't run any more behind this mirage that Tehrik-e-Taliban are only Indian agents, otherwise there is no Problem of extremism in Pakistan. It is such a big self deception, which will cost a lot for Pakistan.

    After Tehrik-e-Taliban, another self deception would be to deny the extremism of Tehrik-e-Labaik of Khadim Rizwi and his millions of supporters.

    Boko Haram, ISIS, many Islamic Groups like in Syria, Taliban ... all of them will appear in Muslim countries and rivers of blood will flow where Muslims will be killed at the hands of these extremist Muslims. Their final aim is only one, and that is to impose their Islamic Caliphate system.

    They have been religiously brainwashed like the Khawarij of the past, who rebelled against the 4th Caliph in name of Islam, and then thousands of Sahaba and Tabeen were killed at the hands of each other.
    Relax, there are Jewish extremists aka Israel and Christain extremists in charge of USA who are far more dangerous, killed more and are the biggest threat to warfare and desctruction to the planet today. But you seem to mute, cat got your tongue there? Or are you just ignorant? Which is it and why?


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azmi View Post
    I just hope that Pakistanis open up their eyes and don't run any more behind this mirage that Tehrik-e-Taliban are only Indian agents, otherwise there is no Problem of extremism in Pakistan. It is such a big self deception, which will cost a lot for Pakistan.

    After Tehrik-e-Taliban, another self deception would be to deny the extremism of Tehrik-e-Labaik of Khadim Rizwi and his millions of supporters.

    Boko Haram, ISIS, many Islamic Groups like in Syria, Taliban ... all of them will appear in Muslim countries and rivers of blood will flow where Muslims will be killed at the hands of these extremist Muslims. Their final aim is only one, and that is to impose their Islamic Caliphate system.

    They have been religiously brainwashed like the Khawarij of the past, who rebelled against the 4th Caliph in name of Islam, and then thousands of Sahaba and Tabeen were killed at the hands of each other.
    Nice touch to use Enoch Powell's rivers of blood expression and attach it to Muslims. I take it you must have been referring to the Rohingyas who have refused to be repatriated to Burma to await their warm welcome at the hands of Buddhist army.


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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    Relax, there are Jewish extremists aka Israel and Christain extremists in charge of USA who are far more dangerous, killed more and are the biggest threat to warfare and desctruction to the planet today. But you seem to mute, cat got your tongue there? Or are you just ignorant? Which is it and why?
    Yes, the Zionist and religious Christians who believe in religious prediction and Hindu religious extremists, all are much or less as dangerous as religious Muslim extremists.
    Not all is perfect, but still under non religious secular left parties, still we could think of any solution which could save humanity from the disaster. But under right wing extremists, there is only hatred and dominance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    Nice touch to use Enoch Powell's rivers of blood expression and attach it to Muslims. I take it you must have been referring to the Rohingyas who have refused to be repatriated to Burma to await their warm welcome at the hands of Buddhist army.
    It is sad to see the persecution of the Rohingiyas and the silence of whole world, including the Muslim countries.

    Muslims are feared for their past, and they are feared today too due to their aim of imposing caliphate. Buddhists suffered a lot and lost their centres in Bulkh and Bukhara and Afghanistan and Sindh.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persec...Arab_invasions

    Muslims lost only one place (Spain) and they lament for it.


    As far as Burma and Rohingya is concerned, then Rakhine State was a Buddhist state, but then Muslims from Bangladesh turned it into a Muslim state through illegal activities, including use of weapons and killing Buddhists.

    As Pakistanis feared Afghans and didn't give them the citizenship, but feared the Afghan refugees and finally started sending them back, same thing happened in Burma too. Please also read about the fear on the other side.

    https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-re...slims-in-Burma

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azmi View Post
    I just hope that Pakistanis open up their eyes and don't run any more behind this mirage that Tehrik-e-Taliban are only Indian agents, otherwise there is no Problem of extremism in Pakistan. It is such a big self deception, which will cost a lot for Pakistan.

    After Tehrik-e-Taliban, another self deception would be to deny the extremism of Tehrik-e-Labaik of Khadim Rizwi and his millions of supporters.

    Boko Haram, ISIS, many Islamic Groups like in Syria, Taliban ... all of them will appear in Muslim countries and rivers of blood will flow where Muslims will be killed at the hands of these extremist Muslims. Their final aim is only one, and that is to impose their Islamic Caliphate system.

    They have been religiously brainwashed like the Khawarij of the past, who rebelled against the 4th Caliph in name of Islam, and then thousands of Sahaba and Tabeen were killed at the hands of each other.
    The eyes are open however one has to call a spade a spade. There is extremism in Pak for sure mostly due to filtrate people then the situation in Afghanistan does not help either. As we see it is after the Soviet invasion of Pak that originally gave rise to such elements in Pak.

    Pak is not in denial of it's internal problems which is why the ISI and security agencies have nipped the problem in the bud by taking care of such people. We can see how Pak is much more peaceful now as compared to some years before. Are you Indian by the way?

    The other groups you mentioned are also illiterate ones formed on the back drop of corruption and poverty. Even if they were atheists the situation would still be the same Sharia or western democracy. It is your most beloved democratic western powers that arms these people. Now you are again going back to ancient times in your ignorance in believing how Muslim's deserve to be killed only that you are not openly admitting it. Shall I tell you that Muslim's were hardly involved in World War 1 or 2, they were fought between your darling democratic powers! If Muslim's have contributed to violence in the past then so have other religions so why don't you condemn them? I see you have nothing to say when Muslims are victims of violence that exposes your biased attitude. You have one rule for the Muslim's and another for everyone else. You know nothing about the khawarji either or who they are.
    Last edited by PakLFC; Yesterday at 01:53.


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PakLFC View Post
    Pak is not in denial of it's internal problems which is why the ISI and security agencies have nipped the problem in the bud by taking care of such people. We can see how Pak is much more peaceful now as compared to some years before. Are you Indian by the way?
    Israel also does operations and peace comes there. It has already been perhaps 8 years that Palestinians are not able to do any suicide bombing in Israel any more. Their rate of success is much much more than Pakistan.

    Nevertheless, base is still there. You can deny it by calling them Indian RAW agents, but reality is this that they are Madrissa born students and product of Pakistan's own system.

    That is why, despite Army Operation and damaging their network, still several hundred thousand of Pak Army and other forces still deployed in the region, with very tight security and thousands of people are missing and PTM blaming the agencies for it.

    I know you will again come up with any other excuse, but this is not going to help Pakistan to deny these problems, which have been caused by the dream of Islamic Caliphate with pure 100% Sharia imposition.


    The other groups you mentioned are also illiterate ones formed on the back drop of corruption and poverty. Even if they were atheists the situation would still be the same Sharia or western democracy.
    There may be Mafias in atheist countries, but they will never get the votes from normal atheist. While in religious society, these people becomes sacred for the masses and they get millions and millions of the votes.
    I don't thing that these both situations could be compared.


    It is your most beloved democratic western powers that arms these people.
    Normal western people don't have enough control upon the foreign policies. And atheist countries like Scandinavien Countries don't indulge in such activities. It is mostly CIA who does so. While all Muslim countries also do the same as Saudia and Pakistan made the Afghan Taliban with the help of CIA in 1994.


    Now you are again going back to ancient times in your ignorance in believing how Muslim's deserve to be killed only that you are not openly admitting it.
    One cannot run away from one's past.
    You could only repent for the Past. But for that, Muslims have to condemn the Muslim Killings of the past, which Muslims never do.


    If Muslim's have contributed to violence in the past then so have other religions so why don't you condemn them?
    I already mentioned you several times that all others moved away from the Past and they said goodbye to biblical laws, and accepted the Secular system. But biggest problem with Muslims is this that they want to destroy the democracy and secularism, and want to impose the Sharia system with sword even today. Till the time Muslims don't change this attitude, till then clash will go on.


    I see you have nothing to say when Muslims are victims of violence that exposes your biased attitude. You have one rule for the Muslim's and another for everyone else.
    These are your conjecture which is wrong. You don't know me enough to make comments about me. I never participated in the threads about Asia Masih. Does it mean that I was against Asia's release and want her to be hanged for blasphemy? According to your logic yes, but you are wrong while you don't know me to pass such comments.

    And now look at your own problem.

    You want to clear the crimes and madness of Muslims by presenting them as victims. I am afraid this is wrong thing to do.


    You know nothing about the khawarji either or who they are.
    What is there to know more about Khawarij except this that same religion made them mad too and they killed thousands of Muslims while they thought they have the duty to impose the purest form of the religion. There was no foreign power behind them and sole responsibility goes upon the religion itself.

    Extremist Muslims of today are suffering from the same disease. But you don't want to accept this disease and you are always trying to hide their agenda of imposing true Sharia in name of Muslims being victims etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azmi View Post
    Israel also does operations and peace comes there. It has already been perhaps 8 years that Palestinians are not able to do any suicide bombing in Israel any more. Their rate of success is much much more than Pakistan.

    Nevertheless, base is still there. You can deny it by calling them Indian RAW agents, but reality is this that they are Madrissa born students and product of Pakistan's own system.

    That is why, despite Army Operation and damaging their network, still several hundred thousand of Pak Army and other forces still deployed in the region, with very tight security and thousands of people are missing and PTM blaming the agencies for it.

    I know you will again come up with any other excuse, but this is not going to help Pakistan to deny these problems, which have been caused by the dream of Islamic Caliphate with pure 100% Sharia imposition.



    There may be Mafias in atheist countries, but they will never get the votes from normal atheist. While in religious society, these people becomes sacred for the masses and they get millions and millions of the votes.
    I don't thing that these both situations could be compared.



    Normal western people don't have enough control upon the foreign policies. And atheist countries like Scandinavien Countries don't indulge in such activities. It is mostly CIA who does so. While all Muslim countries also do the same as Saudia and Pakistan made the Afghan Taliban with the help of CIA in 1994.




    One cannot run away from one's past.
    You could only repent for the Past. But for that, Muslims have to condemn the Muslim Killings of the past, which Muslims never do.



    I already mentioned you several times that all others moved away from the Past and they said goodbye to biblical laws, and accepted the Secular system. But biggest problem with Muslims is this that they want to destroy the democracy and secularism, and want to impose the Sharia system with sword even today. Till the time Muslims don't change this attitude, till then clash will go on.




    These are your conjecture which is wrong. You don't know me enough to make comments about me. I never participated in the threads about Asia Masih. Does it mean that I was against Asia's release and want her to be hanged for blasphemy? According to your logic yes, but you are wrong while you don't know me to pass such comments.

    And now look at your own problem.

    You want to clear the crimes and madness of Muslims by presenting them as victims. I am afraid this is wrong thing to do.




    What is there to know more about Khawarij except this that same religion made them mad too and they killed thousands of Muslims while they thought they have the duty to impose the purest form of the religion. There was no foreign power behind them and sole responsibility goes upon the religion itself.

    Extremist Muslims of today are suffering from the same disease. But you don't want to accept this disease and you are always trying to hide their agenda of imposing true Sharia in name of Muslims being victims etc.
    Firstly I do not care much about the Israel Palestine issue coz the Palestinians have never supported Pak, simple! I do not care what Israel does to them whatsoever. Israel is more successful coz they are supported by the American's. Another thing is that the American's are not sitting in Palestine like they are in Afghanistan that makes things so difficult for Pak. Pak was not even supposed to be around after 2015 according to Zionist plans from many years back. I did not say that Pak does not have internal issues rather the capture of terrorist Kulbushan Yadav followed by the peace that has followed proves what a big player he was! India has many internal issues as well that are all blamed on the ISI! So the army has done a great job then what's the problem other then you wanting terrorism to continue in Pak! I can understand being an Indian your bubble has been burst which is why you are so upset.

    No one is denying anything here other then you who doesn't even have a clue what Shariah law is or what it means!! The right wing religious parties in Pak have always been shunned by the people as seen in every election. It is in your India where right wing Hindu's are in power always seeking to cause some trouble with the minority communities. With a fascist PM you are in no position no complain about Pak.

    It was the Americans who made the Taliban and supported them when the Russians were sitting there. In the 1960's Pak was a very peaceful country until your non-Muslim brothers decided to invade next door. Why? Don't blame Pak for the mess the American's left after the war was over and the reaction that followed. Pak was much like Malaysia and Indonesia like Muslim countries before the Soviet invasion. Muslim people don't control their foreign policies either in case it missed you.

    If the west does not apologise for it's wars on Muslim lands! If the Hindu's never apologise do for their atrocities or the Buddhists for the Myanmar killings then you can forget about the Muslim''s ever doing it either. Again not one word of condemnation from you when Muslim's are killed that exposes your double standards.

    You fail to understand that it is none of your business what system Muslim people implement in their countries as long as they do not force it on the west. You point your finger at a few people insisting that all Muslim's want Shariah in the west that is absurd. It is like saying all white people are racists looking at a few of them. Where is the west are Muslims forcing Shariah by the sword!!?

    Conjecture?? I do not want to know you personally thank you very much however where is your criticism of America killing so many innocent Afghans or Iraqis or Modi butchering the Muslim's of Gujarat? Where were you when the Buddhist were killing the Muslim's of Myanmar? What has Asia Masih got to do with this ehh when we are talking about millions of innocent Muslim's being killed by your human rights observing west? By the way most Pak sane Muslim's like me openly supported Asia and still do.

    Why do you expect Muslim's to be angels when they are the most oppressed one here having suffered the most in the so called WOT? The khawarji were foretold by the Prophet(saw) which is something you do not know that a time will come that this and that will happen. You do realise that these people are supported by the human rights loving democratic governments of the west you keep raving about?? Saying there is no foreign power is like denying the Americans did not invade Afghanistan when none of these nutcases were present. Americans fund and train them as well like it or not. Muslims are victims of the west as well as their own ignorance, the real problem here is that you are so naive in thinking no external powers are involved. Once again Shariah in Muslim countries is none of your business!


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by PakLFC View Post
    Firstly I do not care much about the Israel Palestine issue coz the Palestinians have never supported Pak, simple! I do not care what Israel does to them whatsoever. Israel is more successful coz they are supported by the American's. Another thing is that the American's are not sitting in Palestine like they are in Afghanistan that makes things so difficult for Pak. Pak was not even supposed to be around after 2015 according to Zionist plans from many years back. I did not say that Pak does not have internal issues rather the capture of terrorist Kulbushan Yadav followed by the peace that has followed proves what a big player he was! India has many internal issues as well that are all blamed on the ISI! So the army has done a great job then what's the problem other then you wanting terrorism to continue in Pak! I can understand being an Indian your bubble has been burst which is why you are so upset.
    No one is against the success against the Tehrik-e-Taliban. But in ideal case, there should have been no Tehrik-e-Taliban in the first place. They came into being for this same dream of Islamic Caliphate under Mullah Umar, while Pakistani Constitution is still a Kafir constitution for them.

    And there are 70 thousands people killed in this war against Tehrik-e-Taliban, which is much more than numbers of people killed in the Indian Kashmir. And the war continues in name of security. But you still deny this dream of extremist Muslims of one Islamic Caliphate. You may keep on denying this dream, you may keep on denying them product of Pakistani and Isalamic own system, you keep on putting all blame upon others, but nothing is going to save you from this internal war.

    The right wing religious parties in Pak have always been shunned by the people as seen in every election.
    Off course 1400 years old Sharia laws could not be implemented exactly as they are in this 21st century (which is the dream of the extremist Muslims), thus these extremist parties don't get the majority votes. But still they get millions of votes. Alone TLP got many millions of votes this time.

    It is in your India where right wing Hindu's are in power always seeking to cause some trouble with the minority communities. With a fascist PM you are in no position no complain about Pak.
    How about we send curse upon Modi and extremist Hindus and Hindu laws, and also same to Pakistan?


    It was the Americans who made the Taliban and supported them when the Russians were sitting there.
    You have made a mistake here. Taliban didn't exist during the USSR time. It were the Mujahideen parties who were fighting in Afghanistan at that time. Then in 1989 USSR left Afghanistan. And US also left Afghanistan. But these Mujahideen kept on fighting each other in order to establish their own Caliphate.

    Then US again interfered and in 1994 ISI, Saudia and CIA formed Taliban from the Deobandi Madaris of Pakistan for the first time. No one heard of any Taliban before that. Taliban means students i.e. they were the students of Madrassa Haqqania and other Deobandi schools.

    Then Taliban fought against ALL the Mujahideen and killed thousands of those Mujahideen.



    In the 1960's Pak was a very peaceful country until your non-Muslim brothers decided to invade next door.
    Concept of brotherhood exists only in religions like Islam, while we have the concept of humanity. Whoever goes against it, he is condemned.


    Why? Don't blame Pak for the mess the American's left after the war was over and the reaction that followed. Pak was much like Malaysia and Indonesia like Muslim countries before the Soviet invasion. Muslim people don't control their foreign policies either in case it missed you.
    South Korea, Germany, Japan all fought wars and all the mess was left behind. But still these nations progressed at their own. But Afghani Mujahideen were incapable of doing so due to their extremist Islamic doctrine and they kept on fighting. And Pakistan also got multi billion aid during whole Soviet war, but Pakistani leadership was also incapable of making progress at it's own while half of the population (i.e. women) were only house wives and practically they had no role in education and other industries.

    You should stop to put whole blame upon others for your incapabilities.


    If the west does not apologise for it's wars on Muslim lands! If the Hindu's never apologise do for their atrocities or the Buddhists for the Myanmar killings then you can forget about the Muslim''s ever doing it either. Again not one word of condemnation from you when Muslim's are killed that exposes your double standards.
    It is not about the Governments, but it is about the individuals for condemning the killings, either in name of nationalism or religion.

    There are many Hindus who are Secularists and condemn BJP and Modi and there is fight going on in India between the Secular forces and the extremist Hindu forces.

    In Europe, none sticks to the Christian religious era and condemn the killing and slavery and none of them want to stick to those Christian laws by the Church. But they left all that behind and now follow the non-religious Secular system.

    But Muslims neither condemn the Islamic Sharia laws for slavery and killings, nor they want to get rid of them. But they consider them to be valid till the day of judgement. They still dream about the Caliphate, and here lies the problem.


    You fail to understand that it is none of your business what system Muslim people implement in their countries as long as they do not force it on the west.
    If Basic Human Rights are violated in Islamic Countries, then this is not an internal issue and must be condemned and interference is necessary (in my opinion). For example, if Minorities are prohibited to preach and convert the Muslims into their ideology, while Muslims not, then it is against the basic human rights. The blasphemy laws are against the basic human rights. All such things and all types of discriminations are no more internal affairs.

    If extremist Hindus are humiliating and discriminating Muslims in India, then it is not an internal issue.

    If Buddhists are killing the Rohingyas, then it is not an internal issue.


    You point your finger at a few people insisting that all Muslim's want Shariah in the west that is absurd. It is like saying all white people are racists looking at a few of them. Where is the west are Muslims forcing Shariah by the sword!!?
    There are thousands of ISIS supporters alone in Europe. Whole Muslim community has refused to integrate in the local societies up till now. There is always tensions wherever Muslims gather and make No Go areas. They marry with European girls in order to get the papers, but never let their daughters marry with the Europeans and kill the love for the sake of religion.

    Therefore, the problem is double fold. Firstly the numbers of extremists is increasing many folds. Secondly the Muslim community never integrating and there is always tension there. In mosques, people are told not to participate in the local festivals and never to take the Kafirs as friends according to Quran.


    Conjecture?? I do not want to know you personally thank you very much however where is your criticism of America killing so many innocent Afghans or Iraqis or Modi butchering the Muslim's of Gujarat? Where were you when the Buddhist were killing the Muslim's of Myanmar? What has Asia Masih got to do with this ehh when we are talking about millions of innocent Muslim's being killed by your human rights observing west? By the way most Pak sane Muslim's like me openly supported Asia and still do.
    Good that you supported Asia, but where have you seen I am supporting the killing of Rohingyas for which you are blaming me?
    On the contrary, where is your condemnation when 800 men including all kids of 12-14 years were slaughtered by the Muslims and all of their women and children were made slaves?
    Whole history of Muslims and Islam is filled with this barbarianism.

    Contrary to Islam, it was Buddah who condemned slavery and caste system 1200 years before Islam, and his follower Ashoka the great abolished the bazaars of slavery 1000 years before Islam. There was no slavery in India, but then Muslims invaded and once again initiated the Bazaars of slavery.

    What about the condemnation of Ghaznavi and Aurangzeb. Instead of condemning such killers, Muslims are full of their praise and making them their Hero.


    The khawarji were foretold by the Prophet(saw) which is something you do not know that a time will come that this and that will happen.
    Ahadith are the Loondi (slaves) of the house of Muslims, and they were fully comfortable in forging hundred and thousands of Ahadith.

    While Ali or any Shabai never used any of this Ahadith against the Khawarij during whole Fitna, while they themselves didn't know any thing about these fabricated traditions.

    Use your brain and see the reality.

    And reality is this that it was the internal war between the Sahaba and Tabaeen, where Bani Ummiyyah governors of Uthman (3rd Caliph) were corrupt, and the people (also including Sahaba and Tabaeen) revolted against Uthman.

    Thus they killed Uthman and the dead body of Uthman was fouling in Madina for 3 days and 3 nights but none of the Muslims wanted to wash his body and to bury him. There were thousands of Sahaba and Tabeen present in Madina. Even Ali (the 4th Caliph) neither washed his dead body, nor said Namaz-e-Janaza upon it.

    And from there it went wars between Ali, Aisha and Muawiyyah and Neherwan.

    These Khawarij at Neharwaan were also Sahaba and Tabeen and extemist believers in Quran and Sunnah. They also used the Quranic Verse لا حکم الا اللہ for their revolt. They also wanted to impose the purest form of Shariah.

    You can try to hid the truth using lame excuses, but you will fail. This same fitna of extremism will keep on rising in Islamic world in one form or other.

    Muslims are victims of the west as well as their own ignorance, the real problem here is that you are so naive in thinking no external powers are involved.
    It is not Amrica, but it is Quran which tell the Muslims that Europeans are Kafirs. It is Quran which tells them to never integrate in the local culture. It is Quran which tells them to prohibit your girls to marry them and to never take them as Awliya.

    Once again Shariah in Muslim countries is none of your business!
    If Shariah goes against the basic human rights, then off course it is our business then and it will always be challenged.


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