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  1. #1
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    480,000-507,000 people were killed in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iraq in the wake of 9/11 attacks

    At least half a million people in Afghanistan, Iraq and Pakistan have been killed due to the so-called "war on terror" launched by the United States in the wake of September 11, 2001 attack, according to a study published on Thursday.

    The report by the Brown University's Watson Institute for International and Public Affairs put the death toll between 480,000 and 507,000.

    But the paper acknowledged that the numbers of people killed is an "undercount" due to limitations in reporting and "great uncertainty in any count of killing in war".

    "We may never know the total direct death toll in these wars," wrote Nera Crawford, the author of the paper titled "Human Cost of the Post-9/11 Wars: Lethality and the Need for Transparency".

    "For example, tens of thousands of civilians may have died in retaking Mosul and other cities from ISIS [also known as ISIL] but their bodies have likely not been recovered."

    The report states that between 182,272 and 204,575 civilians have been killed in Iraq, 38,480 in Afghanistan, and 23,372 in Pakistan.


    'War remains intense'

    Nearly 7,000 US troops were killed in Iraq and Afghanistan in the same time period.

    The death toll includes civilians, armed fighters, local police and security forces, and US and allied troops.

    People who were indirectly killed as a result of war, such as through disease or bad infrastructure, were not included in the report.

    In a statement, Brown University said the new toll "is a more than 110,000 increase over the last count, issued just two years ago in August 2016".

    "Though the war on terror is often overlooked by the American public, press and lawmakers, the increased body count signals that, far from diminishing, this war remains intense."

    As an example, the US war in Afghanistan, which has been the country's longest military invasion for 17 years, has lessened in intensity in recent years, but the number of civilians in 2018 has been one of the highest death tolls in the war.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/...080620011.html


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  2. #2
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    Most of the deaths are caused by Muslim on Muslim violence.

    Agreed that had America not poked its nose in the middle east and Afghan affairs, many of these deaths could have been avoided. Democracy is hard to implement in middle east.

  3. #3
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    The Middle East does not want democracy. Leave them alone letting them implement whatever they want. Musharraf allowed the Americans to kill Pakistanis at the time. This can not be denied.


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

  4. #4
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    Im not sure what these millions of people had to do with 911. The US governments and it's allies have only proved they are the real terrorists.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by troodon View Post
    Most of the deaths are caused by Muslim on Muslim violence.

    Agreed that had America not poked its nose in the middle east and Afghan affairs, many of these deaths could have been avoided. Democracy is hard to implement in middle east.
    Basically these deaths wouldn't be there if there was no 9/11 or Aghan/Iraq invasion.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahmedzee View Post
    Basically these deaths wouldn't be there if there was no 9/11 or Aghan/Iraq invasion.
    They would be there but just not on such a grand scale. Shias-Sunnis, Catholics-Protestants etc all want to show how their version of religion is right and will/have and will kill each other in the future to prove it. The lawlessness and power vacuum just gave them the opportunity to kill with impunity.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by troodon View Post
    Most of the deaths are caused by Muslim on Muslim violence.

    Agreed that had America not poked its nose in the middle east and Afghan affairs, many of these deaths could have been avoided. Democracy is hard to implement in middle east.
    Maybe the middle east is better off without democracy if it leads to a few less deaths by the odd half million or so. Not like they were the chosen people or something.


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by PakLFC View Post
    The Middle East does not want democracy. Leave them alone letting them implement whatever they want. Musharraf allowed the Americans to kill Pakistanis at the time. This can not be denied.
    can i just point out its very rich for America to say that when they are funding the vast majority of dictators in the region.

    Really the issue as that the people who will win the elections arent who America and others in the west wants to win, and so they are more comfotable with an endless cycle of violence as long as the taps to the oil keeps going


    "Last time Uganda toured Canada, half their team ran away to start a new life" - cricfan967

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadBall View Post
    They would be there but just not on such a grand scale. Shias-Sunnis, Catholics-Protestants etc all want to show how their version of religion is right and will/have and will kill each other in the future to prove it. The lawlessness and power vacuum just gave them the opportunity to kill with impunity.
    Completely disagree. These ethnic violence were not there during saddam days.

  10. #10
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    RIP to each of the 500,000 people, but can I just make a point that everyone else in Afghanistan and Iraq will likely emigrate to the US in a heartbeat if given a chance? So much for anger at the big satan the USA.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by pakistanigoneaussie View Post
    can i just point out its very rich for America to say that when they are funding the vast majority of dictators in the region.

    Really the issue as that the people who will win the elections arent who America and others in the west wants to win, and so they are more comfotable with an endless cycle of violence as long as the taps to the oil keeps going
    Can't really blame America here who are doing what's right for them. The Muslim's, in particular the Arab's are so stupid that they have no bargaining power left. America can do whatever it wants with them I am afraid. Arab's don't even have a decent army between them. America is funding these greedy Arab dictators coz they are up for sale.


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    RIP to each of the 500,000 people, but can I just make a point that everyone else in Afghanistan and Iraq will likely emigrate to the US in a heartbeat if given a chance? So much for anger at the big satan the USA.
    I don't even know why you bothered with the fake RIP sentiment, countries which get bombed to the stone age generally produce a lot of refugees, regardless of whether they are welcomed to the country which are doing the bombing.


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    RIP to each of the 500,000 people, but can I just make a point that everyone else in Afghanistan and Iraq will likely emigrate to the US in a heartbeat if given a chance? So much for anger at the big satan the USA.
    Where would Indian move to if they were to be bombed to stone ages? Most probably the country that bombed them.

    And just because US took some as refugees then people shouldnt criticize?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by PakLFC View Post
    Can't really blame America here who are doing what's right for them. The Muslim's, in particular the Arab's are so stupid that they have no bargaining power left. America can do whatever it wants with them I am afraid. Arab's don't even have a decent army between them. America is funding these greedy Arab dictators coz they are up for sale.
    I have always maintained that muslims are their own worst enemies but that doesn’t we should let America pontificate on democracy when no other country has overthrown more democracies anywhere let alone the Middle East.


    "Last time Uganda toured Canada, half their team ran away to start a new life" - cricfan967

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    RIP to each of the 500,000 people, but can I just make a point that everyone else in Afghanistan and Iraq will likely emigrate to the US in a heartbeat if given a chance? So much for anger at the big satan the USA.

    So that makes it right? Come on you are smart have some more nuance than that. American forgein policy post Monroe doctrine has been one of “intervention”

    Democracy is great as long as it doesn’t go counter to their interests. Muslims have themselves to blame the most but don’t through out lazy stuff like the big Satan. Morality is non existent when it comes to international relations


    "Last time Uganda toured Canada, half their team ran away to start a new life" - cricfan967

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by pakistanigoneaussie View Post
    I have always maintained that muslims are their own worst enemies but that doesn’t we should let America pontificate on democracy when no other country has overthrown more democracies anywhere let alone the Middle East.
    America only forces itself on weak countries. Lets see them try to bully China or Russia!! Throughout human history the powerful have always oppressed the weak. It's nothing new.


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    RIP to each of the 500,000 people, but can I just make a point that everyone else in Afghanistan and Iraq will likely emigrate to the US in a heartbeat if given a chance? So much for anger at the big satan the USA.
    A disgraful post. You are better than this.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by PakLFC View Post
    America only forces itself on weak countries. Lets see them try to bully China or Russia!! Throughout human history the powerful have always oppressed the weak. It's nothing new.
    true it is nothing new. That doesnt mean we should buy into the propagnda. The only difference between the US and other hegenomic regimies has been that they actively promote democracy while countering it in every way.

    In regards to medical advancments and quality of life, that is nothing new. A lot of the worlds modern advancments on medicine and tehcnolgy came from Nazi germany , does that make them right?

    When the Ottomans were at the top, Popes' would complain that rich young nobles would want to learn arabic and turkish and travel to the middle east. Did that make the Ottoman's multiple conquests noble?

    Yes we should be self critical, but its such a cop out to say "why do people go there."

    Also yes this post isnt exactly directed at you


    "Last time Uganda toured Canada, half their team ran away to start a new life" - cricfan967

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by slipcatch View Post
    Where would Indian move to if they were to be bombed to stone ages? Most probably the country that bombed them.

    And just because US took some as refugees then people shouldn’t criticize?
    99% of Indians would move to America immediately and there aren't even bombs being dropped on them.

    Iraqi's and man Afghanis to have remained in the nation resisting the invading forces, something Indians could never match.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahmedzee View Post
    Completely disagree. These ethnic violence were not there during saddam days.
    Because Saddam knew how to handle them. He clipped any form of the most minor dissent in the bud. I am not saying he was right to do so, but that's how you maintain "relative" peace in those parts of the world.

  21. #21
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    Keep these numbers in mind and when time will come respond fire with hellfire.

  22. #22
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    You aren't being bombed and still every single Indian would leave India for the US in a heart beat, except for Sikhs they would all run off to Kaneda!


    Whenever Nawaz wins, he divides PMLN equally. He keeps PM for himself and gives L N to the people.

  23. #23
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    Seeing the staggering numbers people here are still asking why are only Muslim's violent in the name of religion. Coz they are the only ones being killed!


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

  24. #24
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    This seems an underestimation - at least half a million may have died in Iraq alone.

    Never forget 15 out of the 19 hijackers on 9/11 were from Saudi Arabia yet the Royal Family paid little price for stoking extremist ideology throughout the world. Instead the world was led to believe Saddam Hussein was personally responsible for 9/11 to initiate a regime change long in the works by the neoconservative movement in the US who had designs on Iraqi oil.

    Not only that, but 9/11 itself was preventable had George Bush responded to repeated warnings from his own CIA in the months prior about the possibility of an Al-Qaeda plot to hijack aircraft and attack the World Trade Centre. There was the famous Aug 6th memo that stated "Bin Laden was determined to attack inside the United States" yet no action was taken due to an obsession over Iraq.

    And even then, these 17 years of war in Afghanistan could've been spared had the incompetent Donald Rumsfeld committed enough troops to the Tora Bora mountains in the autumn of 2001 and got Bin Laden then.

  25. #25
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    Reminds me of when Genghis Khan butchered 25% of the population of Khwarezmia for beheading his three ambassadors.

  26. #26
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    Won't see poppies for these people. Hell I'm sure many see them as "collateral".

    But hey, brave soldiers, criticise all who refuse to bow to the military media machine.


    See You Space Cowboy....

  27. #27
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    All take note

    read the op - stick to it - no need to discuss everything under the sun - and no need to get personal either


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