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  1. #1
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    England on track to be the world's best in Tests, says skipper Joe Root

    "We're not the finished article, we're still learning and still improving, but we're going in the right direction and sometimes you have to tinker with things to get to where you want eventually.

    "From the start, we tried to plan out how to get to number one over a period of time and we're pretty much on track to where we want to get to."

    On Bairstow, the England captain added: "I think it's a really good opportunity for Jonny to take his batting to another level.

    "In the last couple of years, he's been statistically one of the top 10 batters in the world in Test cricket.

    "It would be nice to see him really grab number three by the scruff of the neck and use it as an opportunity to start really consistently scoring big runs in this format. You'd like to think he's got everything there to make number three a long-term option for him."
    https://www.sportingnews.com/au/cric...41jmit24kz377d

    India would have to win at least 1 Test in Australia or draw 2 to keep its #1 ranking.

    Elsewhere Root also said ""It would be a nice follow-on to this tour to be going on and playing in India now. It's a very difficult place to go and play, but we would have a good chance."

    Back to reality, India scored 759/7d the last Test England played in India, and the Indian team has probably got better since then (notably Shah and Bumrah). A rude awakening likely awaits Root when England visits again.
    Last edited by Napa; 23rd November 2018 at 23:48.

  2. #2
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    England will thouroughly deserve no.1 ranking as they beat an Asian country in a series. India hasn't beaten a SENA country yet.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhony View Post
    England will thouroughly deserve no.1 ranking as they beat an Asian country in a series. India hasn't beaten a SENA country yet.
    Poor logic. Beating Bangladesh or Sri Lanka away is easier than beating SA or Australia away.

  4. #4
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    This is a very mediocre Sri Lanka side, especially with Herath retiring as well. England have to learn to be competitive in Australia and India before laying down a claim to be number one.

  5. #5
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    The middle order looks great.

    Bairstow
    Root
    Buttler
    Stokes
    Foakes(wkt)

    Put in Moeen Or Curran at 8 depending on conditions and in England, we may see Woakes as well. So, overall a great set of players for England currently. Would like to see more of openers in England and across the world.

  6. #6
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    Need to sort out the opening partner for Burns (Jennings has done well in spin friendly conditions but has serious flaws vs pace) and the #3 position.

    Remains to be seen whether Bairstow is able to rein in his attacking instincts against the swinging Dukes at home at #3. He's such an aggressive player which makes him an asset but he was loose outside offstump in the summer vs India - where England were constantly 80-6.

    Also England need a gun pacer who can be a matchwinner with the Kookaburra - we saw the limitations of a one dimensional seam attack led by Anderson and Broad in the 2017 Ashes.

    I've cried out for Burns, Leach and Foakes selections for three years now as they have been consistent county performers and they've helped solve some of England's problems.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhony View Post
    England will thouroughly deserve no.1 ranking as they beat an Asian country in a series. India hasn't beaten a SENA country yet.
    If you're going to categorize teams as "Asian" then it's just stupid to have the other group as "SENA" rather than "non-Asian".

    Eng/AUS/SA beating current SL/BD is like India/Pak beating WI. And that happens all the time.

  8. #8
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    Well England is the team to beat, like it or not.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_outsider View Post
    If you're going to categorize teams as "Asian" then it's just stupid to have the other group as "SENA" rather than "non-Asian".

    Eng/AUS/SA beating current SL/BD is like India/Pak beating WI. And that happens all the time.
    The rating gap between Sri Lanka and the WI in the ICC test rankings is even bigger than the rating gap between India and Sri Lanka...

  10. #10
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    An equivalent of Pak and SL can be NZ.

    An equivalent of BD is perhaps WI.

    An equivalent of India is Aus/SA/Eng depending on form of the team.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by HitWicket View Post
    The rating gap between Sri Lanka and the WI in the ICC test rankings is even bigger than the rating gap between India and Sri Lanka...
    Doesn't matter. There is no logic in equating series wins in BD & SL to wins in SENA. Anybody can tell you that.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_outsider View Post
    Doesn't matter. There is no logic in equating series wins in BD & SL to wins in SENA. Anybody can tell you that.
    Except there is logic, rating points in an official rankings system. What there is absoloutely no logic behind is equating a series win in Sri Lanka by a non-Asian team to a series win in the WI by an Asian team.

  13. #13
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    The test will be on flatter pitches do they have the quick bowlers to pick up wickets. They have a few world class batsmen and they should keep Leach in the side .

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_outsider View Post
    If you're going to categorize teams as "Asian" then it's just stupid to have the other group as "SENA" rather than "non-Asian".

    Eng/AUS/SA beating current SL/BD is like India/Pak beating WI. And that happens all the time.
    For SENA teams, beating Ind, SL and Pak is a big deal. It's similar to Asian teams beating SENA abroad. I'm not counting BD or WI as they are not that good.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_outsider View Post
    Doesn't matter. There is no logic in equating series wins in BD & SL to wins in SENA. Anybody can tell you that.
    England and South Africa have traditionally found it difficult to win in SL so the comparison is fair. Lowering SL down to BD's level is ridiculous. They are not minnows in Tests yet- not too long ago they beat SA comfortably at home and Pak away

  16. #16
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    They don't have the fast bowlers.


    A skilled hawk conceals its talons.

  17. #17
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    Couldnt even won against Pak the last 2 times we played at their home. So no for me.


    Sarfi as captain'll lead us to glory.Babar'll be our best odi bat & Haris'll be world class in tests

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by SarfiBabarHaris View Post
    Couldnt even won against Pak the last 2 times we played at their home. So no for me.
    I think that was more due to the fact that Pakistan brought out their A+ game (which even surprised the Pakistan fans).

    I reckon since they found Sam Curran they are a far better team now.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by InziFans View Post
    England and South Africa have traditionally found it difficult to win in SL so the comparison is fair. Lowering SL down to BD's level is ridiculous. They are not minnows in Tests yet- not too long ago they beat SA comfortably at home and Pak away
    They have been going downhill in ODIs for a while. It was only a matter of time in tests. Without their best bowler (Herath) and their best batsman (Chandimal) they are basically at par with playing BD in Asia.

  20. #20
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    Not to put a dampener on things for England, but before the series against India we had been a thoroughly mediocre-to-crap Test side for ages. It’s only in the last few months that England have started to produce consistently Test-class performances out on the field. So there is a long way to go for them.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_outsider View Post
    They have been going downhill in ODIs for a while. It was only a matter of time in tests. Without their best bowler (Herath) and their best batsman (Chandimal) they are basically at par with playing BD in Asia.
    They had Herath for the first Test and England still won
    Last edited by InziFans; 24th November 2018 at 02:55.

  22. #22
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    Not to be too critical here, but I feel an ashes win in Australia will have me convinced of Root's statement here. Aside from 2010/11, they've been horrendous there to say the least. Well done on the SL series win though..

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by gazza619 View Post
    Well England is the team to beat, like it or not.
    Like it or not, the #1 team is the team to beat, not some other team which its players and fans may think is the team to beat.

    If England wants to become the team to beat, it first has to be the #1 team.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by InziFans View Post
    They had Herath for the first Test and England still won
    Herath had his rare off days during that test. The way SL lost the next match will be norm in future. They don't have a consistent match winning bowler now. Full strength Bangladesh spin attack at home is currently stronger than Sri Lanka's. Same for batting.

  25. #25
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    I would say that South Africa, NZ and Australia are more likely to get to no1 than England. England doesn't have any pace bowlers who can get wickets away from home

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhony View Post
    England will thouroughly deserve no.1 ranking as they beat an Asian country in a series. India hasn't beaten a SENA country yet.
    I agree. Also because they aren't just winning the series, they are thrashing Lanka 3-0. In the 2nd test they win after conceding first innings lead.

    India is facing Australia which is as weak as it could ever get with not even a single decent test bat. If India thrashes this team, then I will be happy to concede that India is better than england.

    Any great player who plays for a great team for say 10-15 years at best is a part of 5 victorious (non-minnows) away tours. The legacy of a team is built on these away victories and the fact is current Indian team is building no such legacy. Fine, they can be no:1 in rankings technically but I would take a series victory in England/SA/Australia over any ranking system. Those victories are the bragging rights, not rankings.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by HitWicket View Post
    Except there is logic, rating points in an official rankings system. What there is absoloutely no logic behind is equating a series win in Sri Lanka by a non-Asian team to a series win in the WI by an Asian team.
    But there is logic is equating a win in Asia to a a win in SENA? Which is only one part of "not-Asia"?

    A dichotomy does not work like that. Anyone with half a brain can tell you that. If you're classifying teams into "Asian", then the other group, by default has to be "non-Asian". Not SENA.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by happydavy View Post
    India is facing Australia which is as weak as it could ever get with not even a single decent test bat.
    Errrrr... no! The Australian team that played Pakistan in UAE recently was not only missing Warner and Smith, but also Hazelwood and Cummins.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    Errrrr... no! The Australian team that played Pakistan in UAE recently was not only missing Warner and Smith, but also Hazelwood and Cummins.
    And Usman Khawaja got injured and couldnt bat in the last innings.

  30. #30
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    Follow PakPassion on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram!

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tusker View Post
    And Usman Khawaja got injured and couldnt bat in the last innings.
    And most importantly, it was in a continent where they are so inept at playing that they even lost to Bangladesh.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    Not to put a dampener on things for England, but before the series against India we had been a thoroughly mediocre-to-crap Test side for ages. It’s only in the last few months that England have started to produce consistently Test-class performances out on the field. So there is a long way to go for them.
    Well put. Eng has some way to go before being called world's best side.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by gazza619 View Post
    Well England is the team to beat, like it or not.
    I assume the WI really like it

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by HitWicket View Post
    The rating gap between Sri Lanka and the WI in the ICC test rankings is even bigger than the rating gap between India and Sri Lanka...
    Shouldn’t have underestimated the WI team.

  35. #35
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    I don't know how PPers rate England so highly. They are a mediocre team.

    Lost 0-4 in Australia
    Lost 0-4 in India
    Lost matches at home wo WI , SL, PAK (all well below them in rankings).
    Humiliated in this match and well on course to lose the series in WI.

    How on earth are they a challenger to India for the no.1 rank? We atleast won matches in SA/ ENG while lost the series.


    B.Kumar..... Fastest trundler in the universe

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tridibans_16 View Post
    I don't know how PPers rate England so highly. They are a mediocre team.

    Lost 0-4 in Australia
    Lost 0-4 in India
    Lost matches at home wo WI , SL, PAK (all well below them in rankings).
    Humiliated in this match and well on course to lose the series in WI.

    How on earth are they a challenger to India for the no.1 rank? We atleast won matches in SA/ ENG while lost the series.
    Because they won huffing and puffing against India on home soil after winning all tosses .

  37. #37
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    Go through the ICC test ranking table to find out who stands where. England is nowhere in contention for the number one spot in test matches.

    England is at present number 3. They will slide down to number 4 behind New Zealand after their test series against West Indies.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by latecut View Post
    Go through the ICC test ranking table to find out who stands where. England is nowhere in contention for the number one spot in test matches.

    England is at present number 3. They will slide down to number 4 behind New Zealand after their test series against West Indies.
    .I still can't believe we lost to this shyte team 1-4. Even Australia will win 1-2 tests this year in the Ashes. Cummins is in red hot form. Richardson/ Hazelwood will extract swing and the English battig is prone to collapses as this match shows. With Smith and Warner back, I can foresee a well fought Ashes as compared to the media hype that Aus will lose 0-5.


    B.Kumar..... Fastest trundler in the universe

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tridibans_16 View Post
    .I still can't believe we lost to this shyte team 1-4.
    Only one Indian can play the swinging ball is why.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Only one Indian can play the swinging ball is why.
    True that. Our batting was worse than dismal. Only Kohli showed some spine during the whole series.

    The 1st match, we dropped sitters and had england 86/7 or so, only to end up conceding 170.


    B.Kumar..... Fastest trundler in the universe


  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tridibans_16 View Post
    .I still can't believe we lost to this shyte team 1-4. Even Australia will win 1-2 tests this year in the Ashes. Cummins is in red hot form. Richardson/ Hazelwood will extract swing and the English battig is prone to collapses as this match shows. With Smith and Warner back, I can foresee a well fought Ashes as compared to the media hype that Aus will lose 0-5.
    Toss team selection injuries some lame tactics poor fielding It was a perfect storm. If India tours now they will definitely beat England.

  42. #42
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    Losing 8 wickets to a off spinner who did NOT turn the ball on a placid track

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by ILcricket View Post
    Losing 8 wickets to a off spinner who did NOT turn the ball on a placid track
    Yep, it was a weak effort. Once the collapse starts nobody seems able to step up and halt it. Seen it many times, nobody seems able to dig in. They are all shot players.

    Root showed a lack of self-awareness by saying that team selection had no impact on the match - when Broad could have knocked over WI for 170 first up, and then completed the WI collapse in the second innings.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Yep, it was a weak effort. Once the collapse starts nobody seems able to step up and halt it. Seen it many times, nobody seems able to dig in. They are all shot players.

    Root showed a lack of self-awareness by saying that team selection had no impact on the match - when Broad could have knocked over WI for 170 first up, and then completed the WI collapse in the second innings.
    Some just do not own up .

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tridibans_16 View Post
    True that. Our batting was worse than dismal. Only Kohli showed some spine during the whole series.

    The 1st match, we dropped sitters and had england 86/7 or so, only to end up conceding 170.
    Our batting still very weak in tests. We won in Auatralia only because of Pujara, Mayank.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnaveen1980 View Post
    Toss team selection injuries some lame tactics poor fielding It was a perfect storm. If India tours now they will definitely beat England.
    Agreed.

    5 tosses won and 3 pitches were very clear bat first, win.

    Bumrah and Bhuvi injured.

    Kohli with reactionary and poor team selections.


    It was less an England win and more of a case of India losing.


    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Only one Indian can play the swinging ball is why.
    None of the English top order can play the swinging ball either. Let's not delude ourselves that was the reason.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sin Nombre View Post
    Agreed.

    5 tosses won and 3 pitches were very clear bat first, win.

    Bumrah and Bhuvi injured.

    Kohli with reactionary and poor team selections.


    It was less an England win and more of a case of India losing.

    None of the English top order can play the swinging ball either. Let's not delude ourselves that was the reason.
    Our biggest problem was our openers. If we had got in Shaw and Agarwal right at the beginning, it may have been a different result.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sin Nombre View Post
    None of the English top order can play the swinging ball either. Let's not delude ourselves that was the reason.
    Apart from Root none of the English top order can play anything! Good job the bottom order can.

    Clearly it was the reason for India's loss, you can't go into a test series with just one batsman. I remember Gavaskar, Amanarth, Vengasarkar, Azhar, Shastri playing tests in England, they could all play swing but most of their inheritors cannot. Instead of getting jobs in places where they could learn this skill they are all larging it on flat decks in T20.

  49. #49
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    Last year averages of England batting line up is appalling including Root. Anderson, Broad, Ali bailed them out with ball.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Apart from Root none of the English top order can play anything! Good job the bottom order can.

    Clearly it was the reason for India's loss, you can't go into a test series with just one batsman. I remember Gavaskar, Amanarth, Vengasarkar, Azhar, Shastri playing tests in England, they could all play swing but most of their inheritors cannot. Instead of getting jobs in places where they could learn this skill they are all larging it on flat decks in T20.
    Pujara was not backed. Ironically pujara was dropped because of his poor county performance. KL Rahul, Vijay both let India down. Vijay was very good in the last English Tour. So was Rahane' So you cannot say there was only one batsman. They can. Eitehr out of form or past by sell date To make the matter worse India had a horrendous tail. Pant was a noob. If Pujara had been even 50% of what he was in Australia India could have walked away with series win. They dropped him.

  51. #51
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    Are they still on track or have they fallen off?


    IN PAKISTAN LIES OUR DELIVERANCE,DEFENCE, AND HONOUR.
    -Muhammad Ali Jinnah

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    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    Errrrr... no! The Australian team that played Pakistan in UAE recently was not only missing Warner and Smith, but also Hazelwood and Cummins.
    hushhhhhhh ..... how dare you bring logic into such a discussion thread


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