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  1. #1
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    Which Australian batsmen under-achieved the most?

    In my view the Australian batsmen who did least justice to his true ability in my time was Mark Waugh.An overall test average of 41.83 simply did not showcase his true talent.He had better batting skill than brother Steve and on his day matched the likes of Tendulkar and Lara.On the onside he was the best batsmen in the world.His batting posessed the elegance of Greg Chappell .

    My best memories of Mark Waugh were in the 1996 world cup in the sub-continent when he scored 3 centuries.In test matches he was at his best in the 2nd tset at Durban in 1997 when his 125 literally took Australia out of dire straits to reach the pinnacle of glory.Waugh resembled a sculptor or surgeon that day playing on the most precarious of pitches.I also remember his classic 100 on a turning wicket at Sydney in 1997-98 versus South Africa .In that series he outscored brother Steve.In 1996-97 versus West Indies he tackled the West Indies attack with remoteless ease scoring 4 fifties.Scored his highest tset score of 153 at Bangalore,proving his prowess against spin.

    Waugh would literally caress the best deliveries to the fence and resembled ballad dancer and a technician rolled into one.In terms of pure skill he ws on par if not ahead of Greg Chappell.Gary Sobers rated Mark ahead of brother Steve and so did Viv Richards in the mid -1990's.I rate Mark a better player of genuine pace than his brother Steve.

    Behind Waugh I feel Kim Hughes was the most under-acheived Australian batsmen.At his best he mastered both pace and spin.I can never forget his record aggregate of 596 runs in India at an average of almost 60 in 1979.His unbeaten 100 versus West Indies at Melbourne in 1981-82 is close to the best test inning sever.On a broken wicket he resembled a surgeon curing an incurable patient scoring 100 out of 198.It was batting skill at its supreme height against the best pace attack ever that went on to win the test for Australia.I can't forget how he danced down the pitch to tackle spin.In the 1980 centenary test at Lords Hughes robbed the show with one of the most sparkling exhibitions of batting ,executing truly dazzling strokes.Hi sixes score of Chris Old will permanently be embedded in my memory.He also scored classic 213 v India at Adelaide in 1980-81, a crafty 137 on a turning pitch versus England in 1982-83 and a big century versus Pakistan in 1983-84.In the end Kim's average fell to below 40 when at one stage he looked set to join the greats.


    David Hookes mastered great pace in WSC supertests as few batsmen and was right up there with the best.Test average of 34 hardly did him justice.

    Bruce Laird was at his best against the lethal calypso pace attack topping the averages in 1979-80 at home.Played some outstanding innings in Kerry Packer WSC supertests.Test average of 35 did not reveal his true ability.

  2. #2
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    Michael Bevan at Test Level.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarwar89 View Post
    Michael Bevan at Test Level.
    What about those mentioned?

  4. #4
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    Mark Waugh by far. Should have averaged 50+ with the bat easily with the ability he had. Elegant player .

  5. #5
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    Just looking at the title, I thought it has to be Mark Waugh. I have no clue about those mentioned in OP though.

    From whom I know,Stuart Law comes to mind. There was a lot of hype around him when he came onto scene but could not translate it into performances.

  6. #6
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    Andrew symonds...

  7. #7
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    Shaun marsh

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaankeJi View Post
    Just looking at the title, I thought it has to be Mark Waugh. I have no clue about those mentioned in OP though.

    From whom I know,Stuart Law comes to mind. There was a lot of hype around him when he came onto scene but could not translate it into performances.
    Even Cameron white hyped a lot by Australia.

  9. #9
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    Stopped reading after “on his day Mark Waugh could match Tendulkar and Lara.”

    Utter non sense.

    Was a good player but an average of 41 places him where he belongs. Never for a second was he ever in the league of Tendulkar or even Lara.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by freelance_cricketer View Post
    Stopped reading after “on his day Mark Waugh could match Tendulkar and Lara.”

    Utter non sense.

    Was a good player but an average of 41 places him where he belongs. Never for a second was he ever in the league of Tendulkar or even Lara.
    At his best rated by Sobers and Viv Richards or even Gavaskar in that class.More talented than brother Steve and a better player for a while.It is not only about stats.Like Vishwanath on his day in the league of the very bets.Recall his best innings like the one at Durban in 1997 in a run chase when he single handedly won that game.Played genuine pace better than brother Steve.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by freelance_cricketer View Post
    Stopped reading after “on his day Mark Waugh could match Tendulkar and Lara.”

    Utter non sense.

    Was a good player but an average of 41 places him where he belongs. Never for a second was he ever in the league of Tendulkar or even Lara.
    Mark Waugh couldn't fulfil his potential but he was a very talented batsman on par with the likes of Lara and Tendulkar in the 90s, also Saeed Anwar was in reckoning for a while


    Mark Waugh scored highest number of tons during the 1996 World Cup where comparisons between the above mentioned four batsmen were regularly made. Offcourse, in the 21st Century Tendulkar and Lara went way past any other batsman of their era.

  12. #12
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    I always thought Damien Martyn didnt play to his potential.

  13. #13
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    The thing with players like Mark Waugh and Gower is, they were very good on the eyes. People confuse that with overall batting ability.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by InziFans View Post
    The thing with players like Mark Waugh and Gower is, they were very good on the eyes. People confuse that with overall batting ability.
    Both had extraordinary ability or talent.Just not as much application as the greats.On their day they were sublime.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harsh Thakor View Post
    Both had extraordinary ability or talent.Just not as much application as the greats.On their day they were sublime.
    Temperament and concentration are an inherent part of performance. Waugh lacked those in abundance. It's only if you take these two out that you could say that he was better than his brother.

  16. #16
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    I think it’s a fair point about Mark Waugh who should have averaged the same as his twin. His timing was as good as that of Richards and Gower.

  17. #17
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    Mark Waugh did underachieve, but not as much as NZ's Jesse Ryder who should've averaged 47/48 with the bat and taken lots of useful wickets. Ryder should've been a slightly inferior (more elegant)version of Jacques Kallis.

  18. #18
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    Damien Martyn, Darren Lehmann, Martin Love, Matthew Elliott, Brad Hodge and lastly the late Phillip Hughes.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by gazza619 View Post
    I always thought Damien Martyn didnt play to his potential.
    Very good a and true point.A class act on his day.

  20. #20
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    Damien Martyn. If he had played with just a bit more "ugliness" and put a higher price on his wicket, would have been one of the best.

    Still, it worth it watching him bat.

  21. #21
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    Kim Hughes. He was one of the most naturally gifted cricketers ever. Unfortunately, the Australian cricket team of those days was full of guys like Rod Marsh, his brother Greg and Dennis Lillee who didn't take kindly to a young golden boy being made captain over someone senior like Marsh.

    We frequently talk about the inner-politics of Pakistan cricket from the past but there was nothing that Zaheer Abbas, Mohsin Khan, Majid Khan or Waqar/Wasim ever did that could compare to the level of psychological torture that Hughes was subjected to by his team-mates. They literally bullied him out of the game because they didn't like him, didn't think he was Australian enough (he didn't drink as heavily or sledge as much as his teammates) and were obviously jealous of his ascent to captaincy.

    As a result his performances began to decline and people felt he stopped batting with the level of confidence from his early days. If you look at it, his career is a real tragedy. He never played a test for Australia after the age of 30 averaging only 37 when he should have averaged well over 50.
    Last edited by RedwoodOriginal; 12th December 2018 at 16:34.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedwoodOriginal View Post
    Kim Hughes. He was one of the most naturally gifted cricketers ever. Unfortunately, the Australian cricket team of those days was full of guys like Rod Marsh, his brother Greg and Dennis Lillee who didn't take kindly to a young golden boy being made captain over someone senior like Marsh.

    We frequently talk about the inner-politics of Pakistan cricket from the past but there was nothing that Zaheer Abbas, Mohsin Khan, Majid Khan or Waqar/Wasim ever did that could compare to the level of psychological torture that Hughes was subjected to by his team-mates. They literally bullied him out of the game because they didn't like him, didn't think he was Australian enough (he didn't drink as heavily or sledge as much as his teammates) and were obviously jealous of his ascent to captaincy.

    As a result his performances began to decline and people felt he stopped batting with the level of confidence from his early days. If you look at it, his career is a real tragedy. He never played a test for Australia after the age of 30 averaging only 37 when he should have averaged well over 50.
    This is a excerpt from a great article about Hughes. Gives an idea of the kind of bullying Hughes was subjected to:

    Lillee thought his mate Marsh should be captain. He was probably right. Marsh had a sharper cricket brain than Hughes and is, along with Shane Warne, Australia's great lost captain. But Lillee's response to Hughes's promotion was more than a little dubious. In the nets, Lillee would bowl line and length to everyone, until Hughes arrived. Then he would come on off his long run and ram in a series of bouncers. Hughes needed an X-ray before the start of the 1982-83 Ashes, with fears that Lillee had broken his forearm. In Golden Boy, the former Australian batsman Craig Serjeant describes the time Lillee followed through to collect a bouncer and said 'Sorry'. Hughes replied, 'Oh that's OK', at which point Lillee growled 'Sorry I didn't f***in' hit ya'.

    This went on for years. Hughes did not complain once. The tears upon resigning the captaincy make it easy to conclude that he was weak, yet the situation was far more complex than that.



    Also, slight correction regarding my comment above. I meant Ian Chappell's brother Greg not Marsh's.

  23. #23
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    My order will be Kim Hughes, Mark Waugh & David Hookes.

    I think, leaving Vic Trumper out (his average of 39, was at least 33% better than those days' average - a equivalence is probably 60 in recent times. Apart from Clem Hill, none averaged over 29 in those days for a longer career), Kim Hughes is the best ever batsman among <40 average batsmen.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedwoodOriginal View Post
    Kim Hughes. He was one of the most naturally gifted cricketers ever. Unfortunately, the Australian cricket team of those days was full of guys like Rod Marsh, his brother Greg and Dennis Lillee who didn't take kindly to a young golden boy being made captain over someone senior like Marsh.

    We frequently talk about the inner-politics of Pakistan cricket from the past but there was nothing that Zaheer Abbas, Mohsin Khan, Majid Khan or Waqar/Wasim ever did that could compare to the level of psychological torture that Hughes was subjected to by his team-mates. They literally bullied him out of the game because they didn't like him, didn't think he was Australian enough (he didn't drink as heavily or sledge as much as his teammates) and were obviously jealous of his ascent to captaincy.

    As a result his performances began to decline and people felt he stopped batting with the level of confidence from his early days. If you look at it, his career is a real tragedy. He never played a test for Australia after the age of 30 averaging only 37 when he should have averaged well over 50.
    Great post agree

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedwoodOriginal View Post
    Kim Hughes. He was one of the most naturally gifted cricketers ever. Unfortunately, the Australian cricket team of those days was full of guys like Rod Marsh, his brother Greg and Dennis Lillee who didn't take kindly to a young golden boy being made captain over someone senior like Marsh.

    We frequently talk about the inner-politics of Pakistan cricket from the past but there was nothing that Zaheer Abbas, Mohsin Khan, Majid Khan or Waqar/Wasim ever did that could compare to the level of psychological torture that Hughes was subjected to by his team-mates. They literally bullied him out of the game because they didn't like him, didn't think he was Australian enough (he didn't drink as heavily or sledge as much as his teammates) and were obviously jealous of his ascent to captaincy.

    As a result his performances began to decline and people felt he stopped batting with the level of confidence from his early days. If you look at it, his career is a real tragedy. He never played a test for Australia after the age of 30 averaging only 37 when he should have averaged well over 50.
    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    My order will be Kim Hughes, Mark Waugh & David Hookes.

    I think, leaving Vic Trumper out (his average of 39, was at least 33% better than those days' average - a equivalence is probably 60 in recent times. Apart from Clem Hill, none averaged over 29 in those days for a longer career), Kim Hughes is the best ever batsman among <40 average batsmen.
    More or less agree

  26. #26
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    Brad Hodge

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    1) Mark Taylor ( thought he should have averaged 40 + in odi’s )
    2) Mark Waugh ( so much talented and was the most classiest batsman till date - seriously he made Sachin’s batting look ugly)
    3) Andrew Symonds - Yet to find a replacement of the legend
    4) Shane Watson
    5) Greg Blewet
    6) George Bailey in ODIs ( Deserved more chances)
    7) The whole current Australian batting line up

  28. #28
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    Brad hodge the unluckiest batsman.

  29. #29
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    Regarding, Kim Hughes just one more thing I would like to add and share and that is his magnificent century on a very difficult wicket at the MCG against a West Indies attack that comprised of the four horseman: Andy Roberts, Colin Croft, Joel Garner and Michael Holding. No other batsman went past 21.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGUpPDdwJ3Y
    Last edited by RedwoodOriginal; 12th December 2018 at 17:46.


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