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  1. #1
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    UAE specialist Yasir Shah : Why is he so poor elsewhere?

    Fastest to 200 (UAE) wickets, Yasir Shah has been our best bowler in this region.

    However, compared to his contemporary bowlers, he has a woeful record elsewhere, particularly overseas.

    Averages 41 in England, 84 in Australia.

    Compare him to Lyon, who:

    Averages 30 in England, 33 in Australia, 22 in New Zealand, 14 in BD, 39 in South Africa,


    Also, Ashwin, who:

    Averages 32 in England, 48 in Australia, 46 in South Africa


    Can Yasir get any better outside the UAE?

  2. #2
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    He doesn't have the best control of his leg spinners and does bowl some tosh, that will always affect his average. But one can't expect a leggie to have an economy to be the same as the likes of Lyon and Ashwin.

    He has been overbowled as well at times especially in Australia and in Old Trafford + Edgbaston tests in 2016.

    The best way to judge Yasir and his impact on the side is his wickets per game and SR.

    He isn't a bowler I would pick in Australia, SA and NZ on typical non-turning wickets because he doesn't bowl a big leg break nor does he have mystery (googly, flipper and etc). Bowlers like Lyon and Ashwin can bowl in these countries because they can at least generate awkward bounce for the batsmen.

  3. #3
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    His stats in England are a bit misleading, he effectively won us 2 of the 4 tests he played there

  4. #4
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    He is over rated. World needed a leg spin hero and Yasir was the only half decent one available in the given time and space.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by angrypathan View Post
    His stats in England are a bit misleading, he effectively won us 2 of the 4 tests he played there
    Like my friend angry pathan pointed out Yasir has been a match winner in England and won them two test matches. Ultimately thats what matters the most.

    Bhaijaan would have someone single handedly winning 2 tests in England for his country with a bowling average of 40 over someone who wins zero test for his country even if he averages 30 or below.

  6. #6
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    He is not as good as he is made out to be, and his fantastic record in UAE has a lot to do with the fact that he does not have to share wickets with other quality spinners.

    Throughout his Test career, he has been paired with the following spinners:

    Zulfiqar - past his prime
    Nawaz - mediocre
    Shadab - most overrated spinner in Pakistan
    Bilal - mediocre

    Lyon, Ashwin and Jadeja are all better in my view, and they will take a lot more wickets (than they do now) if they were bowling in tandem with the aforementioned Pakistani spinners.

    The vast majority of our players are poor, and the few select good ones are overhyped. That is the sad reality of Pakistan cricket at the moment - not a single genuine elite player.

  7. #7
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    After UAE Khan it’s now UAE Shah

  8. #8
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    Dear Mamoon

    i am highly impressed by ur insight and have been following your posts

    Why does it feel Pak players playings 90s game still ? is it cos of coaching or lack of it?

    it looks like india and england are the only ones producing impact players at alarming periodicity . is there going to be a Wasim or Inzy again with sohails etc ? as an Indian cricket fan its painful to see such mediocre players in Pak team .

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by docteurmanish View Post
    Dear Mamoon

    i am highly impressed by ur insight and have been following your posts

    Why does it feel Pak players playings 90s game still ? is it cos of coaching or lack of it?

    it looks like india and england are the only ones producing impact players at alarming periodicity . is there going to be a Wasim or Inzy again with sohails etc ? as an Indian cricket fan its painful to see such mediocre players in Pak team .
    Thank you.

    Simply put, our cricket culture is rotten to the core. Not only are we producing poor cricketers, we are also producing poor personalities.

    After India,we have the biggest talent pool in the cricket world, and cricket has no competition in terms of popularity. The room for growth and development is humongous, but it again comes down to our rotten culture.

    I personally think that Pakistan cricket is finished because I donít expect any major changes, but even if something is done to review our cricket, it will take at least 10-15 years to show results.

    However, the problem is that other countries will not wait for Pakistan to catch up. Teams like India and England are getting better, and Australia will inevitably bounce back, and South Africa will always be a quality team. Moreover, you have the likes of Bangladesh who will also get better with time.

    Pakistan cricket is now in the same category as Sri Lanka and West Indies. However, the only silver lining is that Pakistan has far, far more resources than these two combined. As I stated earlier, in terms of resources, it is second only to India.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    Fastest to 200 (UAE) wickets, Yasir Shah has been our best bowler in this region.

    However, compared to his contemporary bowlers, he has a woeful record elsewhere, particularly overseas.

    Averages 41 in England, 84 in Australia.

    Compare him to Lyon, who:

    Averages 30 in England, 33 in Australia, 22 in New Zealand, 14 in BD, 39 in South Africa,


    Also, Ashwin, who:

    Averages 32 in England, 48 in Australia, 46 in South Africa


    Can Yasir get any better outside the UAE?
    So is Ashwin record good ? I know compare to Yasir it's better oversees but still nothing to write home about. Also bring in perspective how many tests have each played overseas? Leg spinners are not as effective overseas as finger spinners unless you are quality of Warne, but we as a have a nation habit of finding faults in even our heroes.

  11. #11
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    Yasir is not a great tuner of the ball and does not seem to be able to extract the bounce he did early on in his career.

    That being said, he has a great record in nations which produce slow pitches. West Indies, Sri Lanka, U.A.E. In his first Test match outside Asia, the man took ten wickets.

    His average in England is high but you also have to take the fact that it was his first tour and he won his team two matches. The likes of Lyon, Ashwin, Herath, Jadeja, have not been able to do so on multiple occasions.

    Heís also bowling more ďhit-meĒ balls than he used to. @Big Mac had a fantastic P.O.T.W when we won in the WI last year that explained him to a tee. He lacks variation but is accurate. What he needs is to be made comfortable, which for spinners means scoreboard pressure and a supportive captain.

    Part of the reason for his failures in Australia was the way in which he was used. He was instructed to bowl a leg-stump line to left-handers and when it failed, Yasir took the blame. Itís not that he bowled below his standards but that Australian pitches have been a graveyard for bowlers since 2010.

    The current Adelaide pitch is akin to a sub-continent pitch more so than a typical Australian road of today. Iím sure Yasir would not have problems taking a five-ferí in the second innings since all the ingredients to do so are there for him.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    Fastest to 200 (UAE) wickets, Yasir Shah has been our best bowler in this region.

    However, compared to his contemporary bowlers, he has a woeful record elsewhere, particularly overseas.

    Averages 41 in England, 84 in Australia.

    Compare him to Lyon, who:

    Averages 30 in England, 33 in Australia, 22 in New Zealand, 14 in BD, 39 in South Africa,


    Also, Ashwin, who:

    Averages 32 in England, 48 in Australia, 46 in South Africa


    Can Yasir get any better outside the UAE?
    Once again a poor thread.

    Shah has only had one series in England, in which he took a ten for at Lord's and won Pakistan the game, the second time he performed, guess what, Pakistan won the game. How many test matches has Ashwin been key in winning in England? 1 ten for and two 5 fors in total in just 4 tests.

    It's true he hasn't bowled well in Australia but it wasn't really a bowler's series was it? Hazlewood was world class but other than that, no one really bowled impressively well plus Shah was given way too much to do on really flat tracks.

    Beyond that, he has bowled well in Bang, WI and SL, but I guess we shouldn't count any of those either.

  13. #13
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    I will just say that the amount of overs that Yasir has bowled bw 2014 & today is catching up. Inspite of his performance against NZ in the second test, he is badly on the decline, his ability to spin the ball massively has diminished and he does not have a googly.

    Sooner teams will play him with a straight bat taking the lbw out of the equation and he is going to struggle to come up with alternative answers.

    He is also not helped by the slow low bounce nature of the UAE wickets and someone like Sarfaraz who doesn't utilize the likes of Haris Sohail, Hafeez, Azhar Ali and therefore he is forced to bowl 40-50 overs every innings

  14. #14
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    Unwarranted criticism here. Outside of Warner and Murali nobody has performed in all conditions. Yasir has done a fine job for Pakistan and is , arguably, your greatest spinner ever in tests.

    You can't expect him to win you matches on his own. He's only one player. He needs to be used carefully and on away tours his role is to support the pacers. Also needs scoreboard pressure . Yasir is the least of Pakistan's worries.

  15. #15
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    Firstly it is harder to exert control as a leggie compared to offies.

    Offies u can get away with asking to bowl 25 plus overs a day on a first innings wicket, and expect 60-1 in favourable batting conditions against spin( ie most of the world outside Asia).
    Leggie are just not meant to be bowling that much overs in the first innings that we were asking Yasir to bowl in abroad conditions.


    If you always do what you have always done, you will always get what you always got #improve

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    He still played a major role in our 2 test victories in the UK in 2016


    If you always do what you have always done, you will always get what you always got #improve

  17. #17
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    Even Murali and Warne failed in few venues. Yasir is clearly not in the same class so why expect him to do well in all conditions?

    Having said that Misbah using him defensively in Aus didn't help. He was used to bowl leg stump line to save runs.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

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    We have the so-called FTB's, but Yasir is our very own home track bully. I just would not be able to watch the thrashing he received in Australia.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kroll View Post
    We have the so-called FTB's, but Yasir is our very own home track bully. I just would not be able to watch the thrashing he received in Australia.
    He was thrashed badly in Aus for sure, but Misbah using him to stop the runs by bowling negative line was very weird. In small patches, he looked better when he bowled regular line, but for some reason he again went back to negative bowling. I am not saying that he would have been great with regular line, but at least you give yourself the best chance to do well.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  20. #20
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    Misbah had brainless tactics for Yasir in Australia. Was horrible to watch.

  21. #21
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    Despite the average he did fairly well in England. But Aus was horrible. Defensive bowling is not Shahs strength though. There are not much bowlers who have succeed in Aus. Letís see how he does in SA.

  22. #22
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    He is a good bowler but even a good bowler needs support from the other end to create pressure.

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    He lacks variety. Doesn't flight the ball enough and always darts the ball. He is good when there is scoreboard pressure but outside of Asia he has proven he can't keep the runs down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    He is not as good as he is made out to be, and his fantastic record in UAE has a lot to do with the fact that he does not have to share wickets with other quality spinners.

    Throughout his Test career, he has been paired with the following spinners:

    Zulfiqar - past his prime
    Nawaz - mediocre
    Shadab - most overrated spinner in Pakistan
    Bilal - mediocre

    Lyon, Ashwin and Jadeja are all better in my view, and they will take a lot more wickets (than they do now) if they were bowling in tandem with the aforementioned Pakistani spinners.

    The vast majority of our players are poor, and the few select good ones are overhyped. That is the sad reality of Pakistan cricket at the moment - not a single genuine elite player.
    Firstly I have always agreed with you regarding Yasir not being as good as he has been made out. Up to now that is.

    I think Yasir now is a very different bowler from 2016 when he was just a good defensive bowler used by misbah. Now we see a flipper/top spinner more often and he no longer needs the big leg break people talk about as with dip, drift control and top spin he brings lbw into play more often.

    Previously he was always bowling with scatter guns rahat and wahab.. his pairing with Abbas and Bilal allows control by the whole attack.

    Lyon ashwin jadaja may Or May not be better but with nearly 200 tests between them that’s an enormous amount of international level experience in all conditions and formats. Plus they are finger spinners which is a far easier art than leg spin. They are also all rounders or at least contribute handy runs and therefore more valuable to their respective teams.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by PakPremi View Post
    So is Ashwin record good ? I know compare to Yasir it's better oversees but still nothing to write home about. Also bring in perspective how many tests have each played overseas? Leg spinners are not as effective overseas as finger spinners unless you are quality of Warne, but we as a have a nation habit of finding faults in even our heroes.
    Quote Originally Posted by barah_admi View Post
    Once again a poor thread.

    Shah has only had one series in England, in which he took a ten for at Lord's and won Pakistan the game, the second time he performed, guess what, Pakistan won the game. How many test matches has Ashwin been key in winning in England? 1 ten for and two 5 fors in total in just 4 tests.

    It's true he hasn't bowled well in Australia but it wasn't really a bowler's series was it? Hazlewood was world class but other than that, no one really bowled impressively well plus Shah was given way too much to do on really flat tracks.

    Beyond that, he has bowled well in Bang, WI and SL, but I guess we shouldn't count any of those either.
    Ashwin is playing a major role in the current Test, which they'll likely win. Besides, has bowled consistently better overall than Yasir outside Asia, which is reflected in his stats.

    Of course, now we'll resort to "but but but he's a leg spinner! So, he won't do as well".

    Really? So you're saying he'll always remain inferior to Ash, Lyon, others?

  26. #26
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    Yasir shouldn't be compared to Lyon, Lyon is a proven match winner across the globe.

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    May be he has been overbowled? I reckon with decent bowling partners he can be more effective. There is no reason why Yasir shouldnt succeed overseas. He has the skills and bowls good lines.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    Ashwin is playing a major role in the current Test, which they'll likely win. Besides, has bowled consistently better overall than Yasir outside Asia, which is reflected in his stats.

    Of course, now we'll resort to "but but but he's a leg spinner! So, he won't do as well".

    Really? So you're saying he'll always remain inferior to Ash, Lyon, others?
    You keep repeating he has bowled better than Shah outside of Asia....but how has he? Shah has done MUCH better in England. 2 5 fers and a 10 fer in 4 tests and THE lead role in winning two of those tests. He has also bowled very very well in WI.

    Other than that, he only has one test in NZ and 3 in Australia. As I mentioned, no bowler outside of Hazlewood had a good series in that one.

    So Shah > Ashwin in England, unless you can counter that. Ill be waiting.

    Shah > Ashwin in the West Indies as well and by a HUGE margin.

    Possible argument is Ashwin > Shah in Australia, but both have bad records there apart from Ashwin's current on going test.

    So if Shah has been better in 2 of the 3 nations outside of Asia, as is your criteria, how is Ashwin better than Shah outside of Asia?

  29. #29
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    You could argue that while Yasir played a huge role in winning two tests in England, he has also played a huge role in the other two defeats. Bowling significantly more overs than the other pacers, he should also shoulder a larger portion of the blame by leaking so many runs and having a poor economy rate.

    Ashwin while less destructive than Yasir in SENA is able to at least keep things tight and close up one end.

    Overall I would go with Yasir in Asia and Ashwin outside.

  30. #30
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    well let's be happy that our bowlers take wickets somewhere

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    Fastest to 200 (UAE) wickets, Yasir Shah has been our best bowler in this region.

    However, compared to his contemporary bowlers, he has a woeful record elsewhere, particularly overseas.

    Averages 41 in England, 84 in Australia.

    Compare him to Lyon, who:

    Averages 30 in England, 33 in Australia, 22 in New Zealand, 14 in BD, 39 in South Africa,


    Also, Ashwin, who:

    Averages 32 in England, 48 in Australia, 46 in South Africa


    Can Yasir get any better outside the UAE?
    Puzzling thread. He has in fact done quite well in most of countries where has played, including England, where he has won two Test matches and taken a 10fer, even if he has been relatively expensive.

    Yasir's only outright poor performances were in Australia. So the question should be, basically, why has he been poor in Australia? And we already have some answers to that question.

    No spinner has been invincible everywhere. Warne averaged 43 in India, 39 in West Indies. Murli averaged 75 in Australia and 45 in India. Mushtaq Ahmed averaged 46 in Windies, 40 in Lanka. Kaneria 61 in the UAE, 50 in England.

    Overall Yasir's averages are not only better than most Pakistani greats, his SR is better than Mushtaq's, 10 points better than Kaneria, and a full 20 points ahead of Saqlain. In fact, his SR is as of now better than both Warne and Murli.

    The UAE itself is an interesting place of comparison. Herath, who is otherwise one of the best spinners of his generation, has played quite a lot there, averages 4 points higher than Shah, and has a SR in the UAE of 61, compared to 51 for Yasir. So it tells us that while the UAE may be good for spinners, some spinners are still better than others there.

    Indeed, if you are looking for a one-country/region specialist, Herath is far better fit than Yasir. Ave 72 in Windies, 64 in New Zealand, 45 in England, etc etc

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaf348 View Post
    You could argue that while Yasir played a huge role in winning two tests in England, he has also played a huge role in the other two defeats. Bowling significantly more overs than the other pacers, he should also shoulder a larger portion of the blame by leaking so many runs and having a poor economy rate.

    Ashwin while less destructive than Yasir in SENA is able to at least keep things tight and close up one end.

    Overall I would go with Yasir in Asia and Ashwin outside.
    One bowler can win you a test match but not lose you a test match, just because he bowled more than others does not mean others can escape criticism for lack of their impact. Sometimes opposition play better like cook and root did. @Hawkeye Comparison works better when players have similar number of tests in each country.
    Last edited by PakPremi; 10th December 2018 at 16:55.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PakPremi View Post
    One bowler can win you a test match but not lose you a test match, just because he bowled more than others does not mean others can escape criticism for lack of their impact. Sometimes opposition play better like cook and root did. @Hawkeye Comparison works better when players have similar number of tests in each country.
    He's not 100% to blame but should shoulder a lot of it when England put up almost 600 and he has bowling figures of 1-213.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaf348 View Post
    He's not 100% to blame but should shoulder a lot of it when England put up almost 600 and he has bowling figures of 1-213.
    Or the batsmen who could not bat out two sessions on the last day.

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    Steps outside the UAE, becomes his usual terrible bowler.

    BUT.. to his credit, he was also playing on an unfriendly wicket.

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    Needs more overs. His role is different when the pitch isnít favorable. But weíre one dimensional so weíll never learn.

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    Yasir Shah has a pretty interesting record in SENAW countries. His average is pretty high for a bowler of his class there. But still when he gets it right he can run through a side as indicative of high number of 5 wickets spells.

    Pakistan bowlers with minimum 3 5W in an inning in SENAW countries.
    Player Mat Ave 5W 5W-Per
    Yasir Shah 12 39.62 5 41.67%
    Saeed Ajmal 13 27.59 5 38.46%
    Azeem Hafeez 8 39.25 3 37.50%
    Mohammad Asif 15 25.35 5 33.33%
    Shoaib Akhtar 15 29.11 5 33.33%
    Wasim Akram 45 24.8 14 31.11%
    Imran Khan 37 26.11 11 29.73%
    Fazal Mahmood 11 33.42 3 27.27%
    Danish Kaneria 19 38.13 5 26.32%
    Mushtaq Ahmed 24 30.24 6 25.00%
    Waqar Younis 40 27.53 8 20.00%
    Saqlain Mushtaq 17 34.09 3 17.65%
    Mohammad Amir 24 29.96 4 16.67%
    Abdul Qadir 19 46.43 3 15.79%
    Intikhab Alam 23 43.06 3 13.04%
    Mushtaq Mohammad 32 26 3 9.38%


    Aaj ka kaam kal karo, Kal ka kaam parson. Aisi bhi jaldi kya hai, Jab jeena hai barson.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by sshakir411 View Post
    Needs more overs. His role is different when the pitch isnít favorable. But weíre one dimensional so weíll never learn.
    ur right his role should be different For some reason in aus and england theyve expected him to bowl a million overs and take a lots of wickets which is terrible use of him abroad

    his role should be to support the pacers, for the batsmen to get runs on the board and be unleashed in the 3rd /4 innings When theyve done that hes won us games He shoulnt be used a workhorse and bowl all day long especially early in the game


    If pakistan cricket is to move forward they need to stop going back

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    He was pathetic in Australia, pathetic in 2 out of 4 Tests in England and didn't do much here in the 1st Test. And when he gets smashed he just does that cringy smily laugh he does. I understand that the pitches aren't that suitable for spinners there, but he becomes a liability as his problem isn't just a lack of wickets, he can't even tie down an end and he tends to go for quite a lot of runs which really is bad

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    before bringing out the sledgehammer on shah,
    why dont you look at how south africa's spinner bowled
    Maharaj had no impact on the game either.
    there werent enough runs on the board to defend
    neither was the pitch a minefield for the spinners

    people on pakpassion are far too emotional and cant think properly, hence this thread

    yasir shah is just fine overseas (considering the conditions), it is just that our pacers are more than enough to take 20 wickets overseas without needing shah.

    i say that pakistan has already done better than what they did last time
    although south africa is not what they were the last time
    jacques kallis, graeme smith, ab as keeper, moren morkel etc


  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeetu View Post
    Yasir Shah has a pretty interesting record in SENAW countries. His average is pretty high for a bowler of his class there. But still when he gets it right he can run through a side as indicative of high number of 5 wickets spells.
    An average of ~40 is quite horrible, still.



    Quote Originally Posted by warcry View Post
    before bringing out the sledgehammer on shah,
    why dont you look at how south africa's spinner bowled
    Maharaj had no impact on the game either.
    there werent enough runs on the board to defend
    neither was the pitch a minefield for the spinners

    people on pakpassion are far too emotional and cant think properly, hence this thread

    yasir shah is just fine overseas (considering the conditions), it is just that our pacers are more than enough to take 20 wickets overseas without needing shah.

    i say that pakistan has already done better than what they did last time
    although south africa is not what they were the last time
    jacques kallis, graeme smith, ab as keeper, moren morkel etc

    Nobody here claims Maharaj is some excellent world class spinner, but we hype Yasir to the moon.

    Also, world class spinners tend to take pitch out of the equation - the same you'd expect from a world class fast bowler.

    Most recently, Lyon has been doing that! Warne used to do it as well.

  42. #42
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    He is not as good as his Test s/r suggests . I do not think he would make it in our Test 11 .

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    I think he's this generation's Kumble. Incredible at home and hopeless abroad

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    Just so that we are clear. What exactly is the basis for these comparison? I see a lot of lazy stereotyping that's not built on any sound logic.

    For reference after 34 tests:
    Yasir average 28.33 with a 'home' avg of 24.56 and away of 33.37
    Warne average 23.80 with a home avg of 23.00 and away of 24.49
    Ashwin average 25.19 with a home avg of 20.92 and away of 33.73
    Lyon average 34.34 with a home avg of 32.14 and away of 33.8 and neutral (UAE) of 110. (one test)
    Kumble average 26.92 with a home avg of 21.42 and away of 35.36
    Harbhajhan average of 26.89 with a home average of 22.24 and away of 35.0
    Kaneria the fixer average of 31.61 with a home avg of 28.90 and away of 31.70 and neutral (UAE) of 61.85
    Mushtaq Ahmed with an avg of 27.88 with a home avg of 27.15 and away of 28.40
    Saqlain Mushtaq with an avg of 29.60 with a home avg of 27.15 and away of 27.38 and 31.74
    Herath average of 33.71 with a home avg of 29.36 and away of 40.46 and neutral (UAE) of 35.6
    Muralidharan average of 31.15 with a home avg of 27.42 and away of 35.16
    Vettori average of 32.75 with a home avg of 30.14 and away of 34.92

    Other than warne and maybe mushtaq ahmed not one of these other bowlers has respectable figures away from home. No one is warne so lets face it, that would be too big a comparison. As for Mushtaq Ahmed after 34 test he had two tours of England allowing him to have a respectable average there in 1996 after learning on tour in 1992.

    This is all usual opus dei issues with some fans who have no numbers but narrative.

    What I will point out, which rarely gets discussed here, is how few yasir's opportunities will be in his career to travel to australia, south africa, new zealand, and england compared to his contemporaries from the big three countries. The average Pakistani test player of today can barely expect to play no more than 6 tests each test against these countries over a ten year career vs, if they belong to the the big three. More exposure means more opportunities to get it right. I dont want to bore you with the stats, but there quite a few guys up in this list who were averaging high 50's against these countries away overall and ended their careers with...er...more respectable averages in range of 35 to 40.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhony View Post
    I think he's this generation's Kumble. Incredible at home and hopeless abroad
    After 34 tests yasir has played 9 tests against South Africa, England, NZ, Aus
    After 34 tests kumble had played 12 tests against the same
    but sure, opine away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Rose View Post
    After 34 tests yasir has played 9 tests against South Africa, England, NZ, Aus
    After 34 tests kumble had played 12 tests against the same
    but sure, opine away.
    9 tests is decent enough sample size don't u think? Yasir looked toothless in AUS. He still has 2 more games in SA and we shall see if it changes.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhony View Post
    9 tests is decent enough sample size don't u think? Yasir looked toothless in AUS. He still has 2 more games in SA and we shall see if it changes.
    Kumble averaged 65 on first tour to of Australia it came down to a respectable 35 after a third tour in ten. Years.
    To your point, I think Yasir looked very good in the second innings. People here will sprout nonsense about how the saffers wanted to end the game early, but he set up de bruyn who is supposedly getting better at playing spin. The only problem that I see for yasir is that like Misbah, Sarfraz is a poor captain for legspinners: ie they think you should have a bucketload of runs before legspinners are effective and that they donít have a wicket taking role in the first innings. Thatís false: even warne has a poor average bowling to teams in the first inning but that didnt stop him from taking a boatload of critical wickets.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeetu View Post
    Yasir Shah has a pretty interesting record in SENAW countries. His average is pretty high for a bowler of his class there. But still when he gets it right he can run through a side as indicative of high number of 5 wickets spells.

    Pakistan bowlers with minimum 3 5W in an inning in SENAW countries.
    Player Mat Ave 5W 5W-Per
    Yasir Shah 12 39.62 5 41.67%
    Saeed Ajmal 13 27.59 5 38.46%
    Azeem Hafeez 8 39.25 3 37.50%
    Mohammad Asif 15 25.35 5 33.33%
    Shoaib Akhtar 15 29.11 5 33.33%
    Wasim Akram 45 24.8 14 31.11%
    Imran Khan 37 26.11 11 29.73%
    Fazal Mahmood 11 33.42 3 27.27%
    Danish Kaneria 19 38.13 5 26.32%
    Mushtaq Ahmed 24 30.24 6 25.00%
    Waqar Younis 40 27.53 8 20.00%
    Saqlain Mushtaq 17 34.09 3 17.65%
    Mohammad Amir 24 29.96 4 16.67%
    Abdul Qadir 19 46.43 3 15.79%
    Intikhab Alam 23 43.06 3 13.04%
    Mushtaq Mohammad 32 26 3 9.38%
    What are his stats in SENA? West Indies is a very poor test playing nation these days and pitches are slow and sluggish at times out there.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Rose View Post
    Kumble averaged 65 on first tour to of Australia it came down to a respectable 35 after a third tour in ten. Years.
    To your point, I think Yasir looked very good in the second innings. People here will sprout nonsense about how the saffers wanted to end the game early, but he set up de bruyn who is supposedly getting better at playing spin. The only problem that I see for yasir is that like Misbah, Sarfraz is a poor captain for legspinners: ie they think you should have a bucketload of runs before legspinners are effective and that they donít have a wicket taking role in the first innings. Thatís false: even warne has a poor average bowling to teams in the first inning but that didnt stop him from taking a boatload of critical wickets.
    Your home and away stats are a bit skewed because they probably include SL. We need to look at SENA. Kumble was poor until the later stages of his career, Ashwin and Yasir were ineffective so far. Can't compare them to Warne who didn't play majority of his games on spin tracks.

    Yes Warne had boatload of runs to defend always, he had McGrath on the other side but that is a different discussion.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by BreadPakoda View Post
    What are his stats in SENA? West Indies is a very poor test playing nation these days and pitches are slow and sluggish at times out there.
    True. WI and SL should be removed from these stats

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    Quote Originally Posted by rhony View Post
    Your home and away stats are a bit skewed because they probably include SL. We need to look at SENA. Kumble was poor until the later stages of his career, Ashwin and Yasir were ineffective so far. Can't compare them to Warne who didn't play majority of his games on spin tracks.

    Yes Warne had boatload of runs to defend always, he had McGrath on the other side but that is a different discussion.
    So what’s the point of this thread? Other than highlight that yasir is no worse away than pretty much any bowler barring warne?

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by BreadPakoda View Post
    What are his stats in SENA? West Indies is a very poor test playing nation these days and pitches are slow and sluggish at times out there.

    Why would we do that just for yasir: all bowlers Kumble, Harbhajhan, Ashton, Vettori, Keneria, Mushtaq, saqlain, veottori, lyon are rubbish when you take out the windiest and sl.

  53. #53
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    Barring Warne and Murali, i'm not sure what spinner has consistently done well outside of familiar/ spin friendly conditions. Very unfair to Yasir here. Lyon's record in UAE is terrible for example.


    'There's a lady who's sure all that glitters is gold'

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikhil_cric View Post
    Barring Warne and Murali, i'm not sure what spinner has consistently done well outside of familiar/ spin friendly conditions. Very unfair to Yasir here. Lyon's record in UAE is terrible for example.
    Murali averaged 35 outside Sri Lanka in his first 34 tests (comparison vs yasir) against SENA he was north of 50. Warne is the only one who did well across all countries barring India

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    Considering Yasir doesn't spin the ball much or doesn't have a good googly he relies on the wicket + pace to bowl. He has issues adjusting to the wicket and usually bowls too fast ( which is ideal for UAE) on hard wickets.

    Last time he did well oversees was when Mushtaq was there to guide him. Yasir under Mushi was world class. Now he bowls too fast or too short making it easy for bats to get him away.


    "You aren't a failure if you fail, you are a failure if you don't get up to try again" - Imran Khan.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Rose View Post
    Murali averaged 35 outside Sri Lanka in his first 34 tests (comparison vs yasir) against SENA he was north of 50. Warne is the only one who did well across all countries barring India
    Neither had good records in India. Murali was poor in Australia and Warne in West Indies. But both have good records in countries that traditionally don't aid spin like SA/NZ/ENG so i think it's pretty even there.


    'There's a lady who's sure all that glitters is gold'

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    I wonder posters get some sick joy to come and discredit Pak cricket heroes. First of all Yasir has hardly played much abroad, especially when you are also asking to remove West Indies and SriLanka. Secondly how is Yasir at fault when you pick him on a ground suitable for Pacers than the spinners, and when picked he was hardly bowled in either inning. Spinners need to bowl lots of overs to make mark in test matches. Teams like India are learning to players horses for courses, this is why Ashwin and Jadega and even other two spinners are not playing every match. We are now told that Maharaja is ordinary now that is why he should not be compared to Yasir.

  58. #58
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    He bowled pretty well in the second innings. But the batting becomes weaker with his inclusion. Unless the batting can perform, his bowling won't be as effective with a smaller target.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    An average of ~40 is quite horrible, still.






    Nobody here claims Maharaj is some excellent world class spinner, but we hype Yasir to the moon.

    Also, world class spinners tend to take pitch out of the equation - the same you'd expect from a world class fast bowler.

    Most recently, Lyon has been doing that! Warne used to do it as well.
    Lyon and warne have played alot of cricket on bouncy surfaces, shah has not, those spinners use overspin to get their wickets caught slip,keeper and extra cover.

    it does not matter than shah is not as effective as he is expected to be, our quicks are good enough to b sufficint overseas.

  60. #60
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    Many of the greats have struggled on their maiden tours to SENA but gradually improved on later visits.

    It's very unfair for Yasir, he has hardly played overseas and most probably won't get a chance to improve his stats.

    He's no Warne/Murali but is as good as anyone at present.

    One thing which he needs to do is to keep it tight and limit the scoring when there's not much help from the wicket...it's obviously tough as a leg-spinner to be economical but he can do better.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashmal View Post
    Many of the greats have struggled on their maiden tours to SENA but gradually improved on later visits.

    It's very unfair for Yasir, he has hardly played overseas and most probably won't get a chance to improve his stats.

    He's no Warne/Murali but is as good as anyone at present.

    One thing which he needs to do is to keep it tight and limit the scoring when there's not much help from the wicket...it's obviously tough as a leg-spinner to be economical but he can do better.
    If he had debuted in 2012, he would have been a different bowler getting tours of BD, SL, and SA under his belt.

    Not to mention an extended internship with YK, Misbah, and Mushtaq Ahmed.

    Shame no one thought of pairing him and Ajmal together after he took 8 wickets against England in the tour match in the UAE.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeetu View Post
    Yasir Shah has a pretty interesting record in SENAW countries. His average is pretty high for a bowler of his class there. But still when he gets it right he can run through a side as indicative of high number of 5 wickets spells.

    Pakistan bowlers with minimum 3 5W in an inning in SENAW countries.
    Player Mat Ave 5W 5W-Per
    Yasir Shah 12 39.62 5 41.67%
    Saeed Ajmal 13 27.59 5 38.46%
    Azeem Hafeez 8 39.25 3 37.50%
    Mohammad Asif 15 25.35 5 33.33%
    Shoaib Akhtar 15 29.11 5 33.33%
    Wasim Akram 45 24.8 14 31.11%
    Imran Khan 37 26.11 11 29.73%
    Fazal Mahmood 11 33.42 3 27.27%
    Danish Kaneria 19 38.13 5 26.32%
    Mushtaq Ahmed 24 30.24 6 25.00%
    Waqar Younis 40 27.53 8 20.00%
    Saqlain Mushtaq 17 34.09 3 17.65%
    Mohammad Amir 24 29.96 4 16.67%
    Abdul Qadir 19 46.43 3 15.79%
    Intikhab Alam 23 43.06 3 13.04%
    Mushtaq Mohammad 32 26 3 9.38%
    Brilliant work. Tbh i am not surprised. Pakistan really needs a fifth bowler and rely less on Yasir.

    But if Yasir persists to be a sitting duck at number 8, then sorry we need to find someone else. In this day and age it is unacceptable to be a spinner and not being able to contribute a bit with the bat.
    Last edited by gazza619; 31st December 2018 at 04:34.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gazza619 View Post
    Brilliant work. Tbh i am not surprised. Pakistan really needs a fifth bowler and rely less on Yasir.

    But if Yasir persists to be a sitting duck at number 8, the sorry we need to find someone else. In this day and age it is unacceptable to be a spinner and not being able to contribute a bit with the bat.
    I think one spinner in the UAE and a fifth seamer (can be part-time like Symonds) outside Asia will do him a world of good.

    Heís expected to single-handingky maintain pressure, pick up wickets, and win in the 4th innings.

    Add to that a captain who has been using him defensively to give the pacers more room to aim at, heís pushed extremely well.

    His 8-41 was the best spell of spin bowling in this decade and probably since Warneís 6-46 at Edgbaston 2005 overall.

    It looked as if it were straight out of a video game.
    Last edited by ManFan; 31st December 2018 at 04:37.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ManFan View Post
    I think one spinner in the UAE and a fifth seamer (can be part-time like Symonds) outside Asia will do him a world of good.

    Heís expected to single-handingky maintain pressure, pick up wickets, and win in the 4th innings.

    Add to that a captain who has been using him defensively to give the pacers more room to aim at, heís pushed extremely well.

    His 8-41 was the best spell of spin bowling in this decade and probably since Warneís 6-46 at Edgbaston 2005 overall.

    It looked as if it were straight out of a video game.
    Fifth seamer could be potentially a player like Talat Hussain or Umar Amin, if only they can learn how to bat in tests...

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManFan View Post
    I think one spinner in the UAE and a fifth seamer (can be part-time like Symonds) outside Asia will do him a world of good.

    Heís expected to single-handingky maintain pressure, pick up wickets, and win in the 4th innings.

    Add to that a captain who has been using him defensively to give the pacers more room to aim at, heís pushed extremely well.

    His 8-41 was the best spell of spin bowling in this decade and probably since Warneís 6-46 at Edgbaston 2005 overall.

    It looked as if it were straight out of a video game.
    Not really. Yasir is not a fighter. Only good in his conditions and when he isn't attacked. Another mental midget alongside Shafiq.

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    He shouldnt be playing anywhere other than UAE/Asia/WI


    Umar Akmal, Sohaib Maqsood [Mindless Sloggers]

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    Quote Originally Posted by hur rizvi View Post
    He shouldnt be playing anywhere other than UAE/Asia/WI
    Spot on

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    His horrific/entertaining batting and ordinary fielding make sure that when the pitch doesnít support him, he is completely useless for his team, like in the last test.

    Thatís the big difference between him and virtually every other top spinner - Ashwin/Jadeja/Adil/Moen/Herath. They can chip in 40-50 runs across a test when the going gets tough. 80-100 in their best days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BreadPakoda View Post
    His horrific/entertaining batting and ordinary fielding make sure that when the pitch doesnít support him, he is completely useless for his team, like in the last test.

    Thatís the big difference between him and virtually every other top spinner - Ashwin/Jadeja/Adil/Moen/Herath. They can chip in 40-50 runs across a test when the going gets tough. 80-100 in their best days.
    Spot on, thatís why many on this forum have called for Shadab to replace him in oversees tours. As he can bat & field much better than Yasir.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by ikky47 View Post
    Spot on, thatís why many on this forum have called for Shadab to replace him in oversees tours. As he can bat & field much better than Yasir.
    Or Mickey can ask Yasir to work on his batting which was decent when he made his debut. The guys I mentioned spend a whole lot of time batting in the nets. This guy doesnít have the same passion to help his team win.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by BreadPakoda View Post
    Or Mickey can ask Yasir to work on his batting which was decent when he made his debut. The guys I mentioned spend a whole lot of time batting in the nets. This guy doesnít have the same passion to help his team win.
    I agree with the passion part as Yasir is quite overweight and his batting has indeed regressed. And Iím sure Mickey has emphasised to all of our tailenders how important it has become in the modern era for the tail to know how to bad. But our tail is collectively the worst out of the top nations imo.

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    Why are so many people attacking Yasir?

    OK his batting is crappy but he has bowled exceptionally well the the last series.

    Give him some time. This SA series will tell us more about his versatility.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    Why are so many people attacking Yasir?

    OK his batting is crappy but he has bowled exceptionally well the the last series.

    Give him some time. This SA series will tell us more about his versatility.
    More than anyone giving him time, Sarfu needs to give Yasir more overs to let him prove himself. If he bowls as many overs as Vihari usually does, then he is basically just a passenger.

    Sarfaraz needs to have a plan for Yasir or drop him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    Why are so many people attacking Yasir?

    OK his batting is crappy but he has bowled exceptionally well the the last series.

    Give him some time. This SA series will tell us more about his versatility.
    He is 32 & has played 34 Tests .
    I still believe he is not a great leg spinner & would love to be proven wrong if can pick up a bag full in remaining 2 Tests .

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by ILcricket View Post
    He is 32 & has played 34 Tests .
    I still believe he is not a great leg spinner & would love to be proven wrong if can pick up a bag full in remaining 2 Tests .
    I meant an overseas series or two.

    This series will tell us a lot about him.

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    A thread dedicated to discussing yasir's batting..an unintended consequence.

  77. #77
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    Yasir is probably sixth or seventh in our list of problems right now - behind an ineffective captain, a revolving door of openers, Azhar yoyoing up and down the order, Shafiq's permachokes and our refusal to blood new young middle-order batsmen.

  78. #78
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    In UAE he gets a very high percentage of LBWs. In England, after the first test he got worked out a bit because the ball wasnít coming onto the bat as quick, which reduced his chance of a successful LBW shout. He has to find other ways of taking wickets here. Drag the length back a bit perhaps, but then he risks getting cut.

    In Australia I donít really know what goes wrong for him, as wrist spinners generally like the same wickets as fast bowlers.
    Last edited by Robert; 1st January 2019 at 14:14.

  79. #79
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    Yasir does not have to play every test outside home conditions, especially on green tops that do not assist spinners.

    He is the best Test spinner in the team, no doubt about that. But horses for courses, and Yasir is a passenger in this line up for no fault of his.

    Either Pakistan needs a batting all-rounder who can bowl tight overs and tie up one end, OR go for an additional pacer. The poor selection puts a tremendous workload on the pacers simply on the second day!

    The obvious should have been understood in the first test itself. Hopefully the final game a more suitable 11 will be selected.

  80. #80
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    After this series there will be no reason left to not call him a HTB.
    Lyon is currently the best spinner in the world. Yasir, ash are on same level, even jaddu is ahead of these two.


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