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  1. #1
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    "Get rid of some of the under-performing players instead of Sarfaraz Ahmed" : Javed Miandad

    Pakistan’s dismal showing in the recently concluded Test series against New Zealand could not have come at a worst time as far as their upcoming three-match Test series against South Africa is concerned.

    From positions of strengths in two Test matches which most top-quality Test teams would have looked to win with ease, Pakistan crashed to embarrassing defeats and conceded an unexpected 1-2 loss to the visiting New Zealand side.

    Pakistan's bowling throughout that series had put in sterling performances but the abject surrender of their batting line-up in, what could only be termed as batting-friendly conditions in the UAE, cast some serious doubts about their viability in what may well be a sterner test of their abilities in South Africa. With the likes of Dale Steyn, Kagiso Rabada and the recovering Vernon Philander ready to take on the visitors in the three-match Test series which begins at the Centurion from 26th December, it will take an effort of gargantuan proportions from the much-maligned Pakistan batting line-up to give their team even a small chance of success.




    For a batsman of the stature of the Pakistan legend Javed Miandad who was known for his abilities to master bowling attacks around the world, the loss to New Zealand should not have come as a major surprise for anyone who has watched Pakistan cricket in recent times and the prospects of positives from the upcoming tour of South Africa are rather bleak, as he explained in an exclusive interview with PakPassion.net, “I am afraid I do not expect much from the Pakistan batting line-up during the South Africa tour. The wickets that Pakistan will encounter in South Africa will be difficult to play on and only if the batting clicks can we have a chance of something positive from this tour. However, I don’t feel that our Test batsman have the technique needed to adjust to different wickets around the world and this is not something which is a new phenomenon as far as Pakistan are concerned.”

    Whilst a lot of the blame for Pakistan’s recent loss to New Zealand could be laid at the feet of the batsmen from the home-side, it would be totally unfair to ignore the fact that the true foundation of the Kiwi victory was constructed by some superb performances by their batsmen, such as captain Kane Williamson. For Javed Miandad, it's this ability of top-quality batsmen to master conditions away from home that makes them world-leaders and is something Pakistan batsmen lack.

    “The reason for our problems in batting is that our players cannot adjust to foreign conditions in the same way the likes of some of the top-quality batsmen can do. The manner in which Kane Williamson, Joe Root and Virat Kohli can adjust to different wickets around the world is simply amazing and the secret of their success is due to the fact that these players are technically strong. When such players travel away from home, they are able to judge the conditions and hit 50s, 100 or even double-hundreds when conditions allow them. This is what makes them world-beaters and that is something our batsmen should learn from as batting techniques of our batsmen are abysmal and they can only perform in conditions which they are used to but fail miserably where there is any slight difference.”

    The crisis caused by the lack of good quality emerging batsmen from Pakistan seems to have reached a serious stage and must be a cause of concern for the PCB. In recent times, there have been statements made by PCB officials which speak of changes to the domestic structure to bring it in line with similar structures with what can be found in other countries. For Javed Miandad who played his domestic cricket for a departmental side, the very idea of tinkering with the system to look for improvements proves that the powers that be are not able to comprehend the issues at hand as he explained, “The whole idea of removing departments from domestic cricket to somehow magically improve the quality of cricketers in Pakistan seems rather foolish to me and has not been thought through properly. In my playing days, the departments would attract top talent from around the country and not one region, and it was like a County cricket team in terms of standards. This was the setup that would provide the top 11 players for the Pakistan team and we produced some world-beaters who brought glory to the country as well. We must also remember that changing a player's team from a regional to a departmental one will also not make him a better player. It depends on the support he gets, and I am afraid that the current regional setup is far too badly managed to make any positive difference for Pakistan cricket.”

    The debate for adoption of a departmental versus regional system in domestic cricket has been a passionate one with some strong views on both sides of the divide. Whilst Javed Miandad is clear about the benefits of the departmental style for domestic cricket in terms of producing good cricketers for Pakistan, he also understands that the type of financial incentives the departments can provide to cricketers do make a huge difference to the lives of the players.

    “People who are blindly thinking of getting rid of departments do not understand that it is these departments financial help that not only supported the players financially, it also helped them look after their families as well which was crucial for their well-being. Without PIA or the banks, players like the Late Hanif Mohammad or Wasim Akram would have had no way to help their families and therefore play with clear minds for Pakistan.”

    The Pakistan captain Sarfaraz Ahmed’s position has come under a huge amount of criticism especially after the recent defeat in UAE where doubts have been raised about his suitability as leader of the Test side. Whilst he has received unreserved support from the Pakistan team management and the PCB hierarchy, there is an overriding feeling amongst fans and some experts that the wicket-keeper batsman is a walking liability for the Test side. To Javed Miandad, however, he represents the best option Pakistan have for a captain and putting the burden of defeats on Sarfaraz Ahmed’s shoulders is unfair and totally counterproductive for the side’s interests, “My message for Sarfaraz is not to worry about this sort of pressure and to continue leading the team with the best of his abilities. You cannot run a cricket team by looking at statistics alone and in my book, Sarfaraz’s name would feature as the first name on any team list I would make as to me, he is our best wicket-keeper who can also score runs when needed. Honestly speaking, we have no other option to replace him as Test captain and he should be persisted with and to those looking for scapegoats for the defeat to New Zealand, my advice would be to think of getting rid of some of the under-performing players instead of the captain.”


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  2. #2
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    The problem i have noticed with most karachi fans and former players is they always support players of their region, regsrdless of merit and never ever use reasonable judgment. To them its always about karachi vs lahore and everyone else and karachi comes first.

    We see that with rashid latif all the time and now we see this with miandad. rashid insisted kaneria was innocent and was treated unfairly compared with aamir..


    We all know sarfaraz could improve his batting.. he underperformed with the bat.. would it really hurt for miandad to say it?
    Last edited by MenInG; 17th December 2018 at 11:23.


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  3. #3
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    Pretty much on par for Javed. He was awful captain because he had no idea how to inspire or be a leader of men.

  4. #4
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    Okay, we shall do that, and guess what Miandad ji, sarfraz still makes the top of that list too...

  5. #5
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    Think we have to accept that Sarfaraz cannot be replaced overnight. He lead the team to a good series in UK and also won against Australia so there has been an improvement.


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  6. #6
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    I don't think Pakistan had a good UK tour. Barely scraped past Ireland and got routed by an innings by England in the 2nd Test. We can look at the scoreline of 1-1 and say that we did well but we didn't. The same problems that we're seeing right now were there back then too and Ireland and England exposed them ruthlessly. Had it been a 4 match series, in most likelihood would've lost 3-1.

    Not saying that Sarfraz is the only problem in the team as our batting is horrendous but Sarfraz is a major part of the problem. In Tests, captaincy wins you games as much as your batting does. We've seen how we never lost a series for 7 years under Misbah but we lost the first series without him in the UAE. It only perpetuated the fact that conditions help but captaincy matters more. We need a more astute captain. Not just someone who can shout at teammates.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by shariqnoor View Post
    I don't think Pakistan had a good UK tour. Barely scraped past Ireland and got routed by an innings by England in the 2nd Test. We can look at the scoreline of 1-1 and say that we did well but we didn't. The same problems that we're seeing right now were there back then too and Ireland and England exposed them ruthlessly. Had it been a 4 match series, in most likelihood would've lost 3-1.

    Not saying that Sarfraz is the only problem in the team as our batting is horrendous but Sarfraz is a major part of the problem. In Tests, captaincy wins you games as much as your batting does. We've seen how we never lost a series for 7 years under Misbah but we lost the first series without him in the UAE. It only perpetuated the fact that conditions help but captaincy matters more. We need a more astute captain. Not just someone who can shout at teammates.
    We also need players who can score runs. All 'astuteness' of a captain gets blown away when the openers are back in the pavilion with 10 runs on the board.

    I understand that tactics can win/lose games and we would also like Sarf to score big but there are 10 others who he relies on. I suppose, one can say that he should have selected a better team.


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  8. #8
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    He's talking about under performing players , is Sarfraz performing as a batsmen or captain in ODIs or tests ? Specialist captain should be the first 1 replaced.
    Last edited by MenInG; 17th December 2018 at 12:44. Reason: Leave the regional angle out.

  9. #9
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    Would love to see the meltdown from Rashid Latif and Miandad the day Sarfraz and Shafiq are both dropped from the team

  10. #10
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    Polite request - keep the regional aspect away all arguments from this thread - thanks


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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    We also need players who can score runs. All 'astuteness' of a captain gets blown away when the openers are back in the pavilion with 10 runs on the board.

    I understand that tactics can win/lose games and we would also like Sarf to score big but there are 10 others who he relies on. I suppose, one can say that he should have selected a better team.
    Williamson won the Test after being bowled out for 153 on the first day of the first test.

    Misbah won the Test after being bowled out for 99 against England.

    Of course it doesn't help when your batsmen aren't performing but then the captain needs to step up with his captaincy. Can't just blame the batsmen all the time. Agreed it is a big problem but then so is his captaincy.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by shariqnoor View Post
    Williamson won the Test after being bowled out for 153 on the first day of the first test.

    Misbah won the Test after being bowled out for 99 against England.

    Of course it doesn't help when your batsmen aren't performing but then the captain needs to step up with his captaincy. Can't just blame the batsmen all the time. Agreed it is a big problem but then so is his captaincy.
    But Sarfaraz is a wicket-keeper; if he had dropped loads of catches then you would be right. KW and MuH are both batsmen and they did well in what they do.


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  13. #13
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    Sarfraz himself is under performing for last 2 years? Miandad showing typical favoritism here.

  14. #14
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    Haha. Sarfraz himself is THE underperforming player.

  15. #15
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    It's not like Sarfaraz has been performing with the bat lately anyways.
    But it's no more a question of wanting to drop him anyways.The sad truth is that we have no one to replace him.We will have to persist with him for now, but we need to have an official vice captain for all formats and to start grooming said player for captaincy in the days to come.

  16. #16
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    People here speaking without any knowledge. Do you want Pakistan to win ore matches? replacing Sarfraz is not a solution! somehow finding batsmen who can score and average 50 atleast at home is.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    But Sarfaraz is a wicket-keeper; if he had dropped loads of catches then you would be right. KW and MuH are both batsmen and they did well in what they do.
    Gone are the days when wickies are expected to be just wickies. Besides he bats in a batsman’s spot.

    His keeping has been excellent, captaincy maybe not so great but still ok but the batting has been atrocious.
    Misbah helped us save and win games in the UAE with his batting and saifi is not measuring up in that regard.

    Miandad should not blindly support his fav player like that while throwing others under the bus. Lets be fair now.. i do, however, believe we dont have a better option that saifi at the moment.


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  18. #18
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    Sound response.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    Think we have to accept that Sarfaraz cannot be replaced overnight. He lead the team to a good series in UK and also won against Australia so there has been an improvement.
    why not, he is not a suited for captaincy in tests... Losing a series against NZL in UAE 2-1 is enough to decide...

    They won against aus because they were a depleted TEST side playing without Warner and Smith + new captain in Paine who are finding their feat even in their own den against INDIA now...


    Azhar Ali is the best choice for test captaincy and more deserving... Now also since he is retired from LOIs, paves more way for test captaincy...

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ask_analyse_act View Post
    why not, he is not a suited for captaincy in tests... Losing a series against NZL in UAE 2-1 is enough to decide...

    They won against aus because they were a depleted TEST side playing without Warner and Smith + new captain in Paine who are finding their feat even in their own den against INDIA now...


    Azhar Ali is the best choice for test captaincy and more deserving... Now also since he is retired from LOIs, paves more way for test captaincy...

    Heck no.. Azhar is clueless... Sarfaraz is our best bet for now... doesnt mean he couldnt improve though


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  21. #21
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    Pakistan legendary batsman and former captain Javed Miandad has come to support embattled captain Sarfraz Ahmed, saying that instead of blaming the skipper, Pakistan should pluck out the ‘under-performing players.’

    “My message for Sarfraz is not to worry about this sort of pressure and to continue leading the team with the best of his abilities. You cannot run a cricket team by looking at statistics alone and in my book, Sarfraz’s name would feature as the first name on any team list I would make as to me, he is our best wicket-keeper who can also score runs when needed,” said Miandad, quoted PakPassion.net.

    “Honestly speaking, we have no other option to replace him as Test captain and he should be persisted with and to those looking for scapegoats for the defeat to New Zealand, my advice would be to think of getting rid of some of the under-performing players instead of the captain,” added the batting legend. The statement comes after Pakistan suffered a 2-1 Test defeat against New Zealand at UAE.

    Speaking about the upcoming tour of South Africa, the former captain was of the view that Pakistan batting-line lacks the technique to counter South Africa. “I am afraid I do not expect much from the Pakistan batting line-up during the South Africa tour. The wickets that Pakistan will encounter in South Africa will be difficult to play on and only if the batting clicks can we have a chance of something positive from this tour,” he said.

    “However, I don’t feel that our Test batsman have the technique needed to adjust to different wickets around the world and this is not something which is a new phenomenon as far as Pakistan are concerned,” Miandad added.

    Pakistan is scheduled to play a three-match away Test series against South Africa from December 26 to January 15.

    https://www.brecorder.com/2018/12/17...lead-pakistan/


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  22. #22
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    Can't keep, can't bat, can't lead, can't talk but lets keep him and get rid of "other" non-performing players and don't touch Sarfraz, thank Miandad Sahib for the advice.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie View Post
    Gone are the days when wickies are expected to be just wickies. Besides he bats in a batsman’s spot.

    .
    I disagree look at no 1 test team they have have keepers who score 20s or 30s. Of course it helps when your wicketkeeper can score centuries but there are very few of those avaiy, especially the ones that keep wicket full time, and that too in all three formats.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by moghul View Post
    Can't keep, can't bat, can't lead, can't talk but lets keep him and get rid of "other" non-performing players and don't touch Sarfraz, thank Miandad Sahib for the advice.
    His keeping as good as anyone and so is his batting average. He only scored 81 94 30 not out in test series in recent series. His captaincy is also good in limited cricket and not that terrible in tests either. You cannot blame just Sarfraz for batting failures of our top 6 and our weak tail batting. Of course he is one of the batsmen responsible but not entirely.
    Last edited by gazza619; 18th December 2018 at 02:18.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    Polite request - keep the regional aspect away all arguments from this thread - thanks
    But why, we know that parochial interests play a role in the thought process of guys like Latif, miandad, maybe even younis and certainly some members of the national press. Maybe it does not afflict the modern pcb and its players, but it certainly colors the thinking of past players and administrators

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by PakPremi View Post
    I disagree look at no 1 test team they have have keepers who score 20s or 30s. Of course it helps when your wicketkeeper can score centuries but there are very few of those avaiy, especially the ones that keep wicket full time, and that too in all three formats.

    Not true.. if you are talking about india, every keeper they have had can bat. I am not saying sarfaraz cant bat.. we inow he can.. but he has been terrible lately.. if india had a keeper like that, he would have been dropped. Thats why we see them try karthicj, parthiv, pant, saha etc.. its a virtual revolving door of keepers for them after dhoni. England have two wickie batsmen. De kock is great. All top teams have batsmen expected to maintain high 30s average on the minimum..

    Sarfaraz can do it.. he topped the averages with n the aussie series.. then he dramatically lost it in the kiwi series and averaged 22. I think that was a key factor in our loss. He couldnt make it count when it mattered.. he got out at some key moments.. we expect more from our captain..


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  27. #27
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    Sarfraz is not a great test captain but I'm not sure who would be better. Give him at least the SA series to see how he does.

    Regarding Misbah as captain, he was terrible in Australia, and also we almost lost a test series to Zimbabwe under him (YK saved us).

  28. #28
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    Replacing anyone before a tough overseas tour is just asking for trouble. The only change in the batting lineup should be Fakhar in for the now retired, Hafeez:

    1) Imam
    2) Fakhar
    3) Azhar
    4) Shafiq
    5) Haris
    6) Babar
    7) Sarfaraz (wk) (c)

    Azhar and Shafiq need to take the lead.

  29. #29
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    The investment in Shafiq has turned out to be a massive failure. He simply hasn't gone up a level and added consistency to his game. Once he scores a century, you are almost guaranteed for a single digit score in the next few innings.

    Coming over to Sarfraz, his batting has been abysmal for over a year save for his twin fifties against Aus.
    He may easily be replaced by a better wicketkeeper bat(M. Rizwan) but it will leave the team with literally no captaincy option. We are in dire problems in more than one disciplines.

    Babar has been one positive consistently and has improved his Test batting and especially his batting against spin lately. I feel he should be promoted to no. 5.
    Haris has improved and still finding his feet in Tests, but he is doing well. Azhar is still our best batter.

    Coming over to the departmental cricket and his views, the thing is that over the course of decades, cricket has become more professional, and all the other nations have adapted to it by making their system better. We, on the other hand are still relying on the hit and trial method and the same old "method" just because it gave us some great names in the past. We simply have failed to keep up with the sport.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by BunnyRabbit View Post
    The investment in Shafiq has turned out to be a massive failure. He simply hasn't gone up a level and added consistency to his game. Once he scores a century, you are almost guaranteed for a single digit score in the next few innings.

    Coming over to Sarfraz, his batting has been abysmal for over a year save for his twin fifties against Aus.
    He may easily be replaced by a better wicketkeeper bat(M. Rizwan) but it will leave the team with literally no captaincy option. We are in dire problems in more than one disciplines.

    Babar has been one positive consistently and has improved his Test batting and especially his batting against spin lately. I feel he should be promoted to no. 5.
    Haris has improved and still finding his feet in Tests, but he is doing well. Azhar is still our best batter.

    Coming over to the departmental cricket and his views, the thing is that over the course of decades, cricket has become more professional, and all the other nations have adapted to it by making their system better. We, on the other hand are still relying on the hit and trial method and the same old "method" just because it gave us some great names in the past. We simply have failed to keep up with the sport.
    Not every player who plays 50+ tests is going to turn into a great. Shafiq averages just under 40 and has played a part in nearly all of Pakistan's test successes this decade. He has been nothing but a good investment and still has a few years left in the tank.

  31. #31
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    Asad Shafiq needs to be dropped before Sarfraz Ahmed.

  32. #32
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    Spot on.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    Not every player who plays 50+ tests is going to turn into a great. Shafiq averages just under 40 and has played a part in nearly all of Pakistan's test successes this decade. He has been nothing but a good investment and still has a few years left in the tank.
    On the contrary, he has stat padded a lot in losses, alongside making a lot of soft runs. However, you can always count on him to score a few when his spot is under threat, evident by him playing 60+ Tests consecutively for Pakistan (the most for any Pakistani cricketer).


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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    Not every player who plays 50+ tests is going to turn into a great. Shafiq averages just under 40 and has played a part in nearly all of Pakistan's test successes this decade. He has been nothing but a good investment and still has a few years left in the tank.
    Under 40 is not good. And there are plenty of other players that could have been tried out in his place. He was hyped up from the start by players like Yousuf and others. Somehow that made him undroppable. And he has scored a lot of his runs in losing causes.

    You can see the favoritism he has received by his ODI record. He played something like 50-60 ODIs while averaging a paltry 25 at an abysmal strike rate of 60-odd.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blistering Barnacle View Post
    Under 40 is not good. And there are plenty of other players that could have been tried out in his place. He was hyped up from the start by players like Yousuf and others. Somehow that made him undroppable. And he has scored a lot of his runs in losing causes.

    You can see the favoritism he has received by his ODI record. He played something like 50-60 ODIs while averaging a paltry 25 at an abysmal strike rate of 60-odd.
    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah719 View Post
    On the contrary, he has stat padded a lot in losses, alongside making a lot of soft runs. However, you can always count on him to score a few when his spot is under threat, evident by him playing 60+ Tests consecutively for Pakistan (the most for any Pakistani cricketer).
    Why don't you guys remember his runs in Pakistan's victories? Or losses such as in Adelaide where he almost pulled off our greatest run chase ever? An average of just under 40 is a good one. Rahane and Dean Elgar, for example, average just over 40.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    Why don't you guys remember his runs in Pakistan's victories? Or losses such as in Adelaide where he almost pulled off our greatest run chase ever? An average of just under 40 is a good one. Rahane and Dean Elgar, for example, average just over 40.
    Why don't you show those instances? Regarding a test average of 40, it is so-so in this modern era. Nothing great, particularly for a number 5-6.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    Or losses such as in Adelaide where he almost pulled off our greatest run chase ever? .
    "Almost" being the key word.

    He was under no pressure and it was a lost cause and he did what he does best, which is score when it's a lost cause.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blistering Barnacle View Post
    Under 40 is not good. And there are plenty of other players that could have been tried out in his place. He was hyped up from the start by players like Yousuf and others. Somehow that made him undroppable. And he has scored a lot of his runs in losing causes.

    You can see the favoritism he has received by his ODI record. He played something like 50-60 ODIs while averaging a paltry 25 at an abysmal strike rate of 60-odd.
    Spot on. An average of under 40 you could argue in a batting friendly era is substandard at international level and it sure is if we're talking about a top 5 test side! If it was a more free flowing batsman with a SR of over 50 (like B.Mac) then fair enough but Shafiq doesn't score his runs anywhere near quick enough to be compared to Brendon McCullum despite the similarity in average.

    It's just so unfortunate that we have posters who hold such low standards and it really epitomises the small team mentality from the fans - stemming from such mediocrity in the side.
    Last edited by topspin; 19th December 2018 at 23:01.

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    Domestic Cricket Must Be Privatized.

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    Time for Miandad to call out Shafiq as he's been a chronic under performer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blistering Barnacle View Post
    "Almost" being the key word.

    He was under no pressure and it was a lost cause and he did what he does best, which is score when it's a lost cause.
    Now you're just being a hater. To say he was under no pressure batting with the tail against the Aussies in such a huge run-chase is not only unfair, it is a blatant lie. It wasn't a lost cause obviously because we came within a few runs of victory.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blistering Barnacle View Post
    Why don't you show those instances? Regarding a test average of 40, it is so-so in this modern era. Nothing great, particularly for a number 5-6.
    I didn't say it was great. It is a good average though. You can't just say this is a batting era and disregard what other #5-6 batsmen are averaging. If you do not think that Rahane, Elgar, Stokes, Bairstow, De Kock are good test batsmen, I do not know what to say to you. Shafiq has been nothing but a good investment and he's not going to be dropped anytime soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    Now you're just being a hater. To say he was under no pressure batting with the tail against the Aussies in such a huge run-chase is not only unfair, it is a blatant lie. It wasn't a lost cause obviously because we came within a few runs of victory.



    I didn't say it was great. It is a good average though. You can't just say this is a batting era and disregard what other #5-6 batsmen are averaging. If you do not think that Rahane, Elgar, Stokes, Bairstow, De Kock are good test batsmen, I do not know what to say to you. Shafiq has been nothing but a good investment and he's not going to be dropped anytime soon.
    What you're forgetting here is that those batsmen don't have the luxury of playing their home matches on the deadest wickets on Earth but in far more challenging conditions (England, SA and India). If they were batting in UAE their averages would be at least 10% higher taking them to the mid 40s.

    He would be excused if he was batting at 60+ SR like McCullum did, because unlike him his quick runs actually won matches for NZ. Anyone with a pinch of cricketing sense would know an average of under 40 at a strike rate of under 50 is simply sub-standard. But I'm not surprised to see your standards so low since your grasp of cricket is so weak - epitomised by your preference of Junaid over SSA in ODIs and Sami Aslam as the third opener in the test squad.
    Last edited by Abdullah719; 20th December 2018 at 23:23.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    Now you're just being a hater. To say he was under no pressure batting with the tail against the Aussies in such a huge run-chase is not only unfair, it is a blatant lie. It wasn't a lost cause obviously because we came within a few runs of victory.



    I didn't say it was great. It is a good average though. You can't just say this is a batting era and disregard what other #5-6 batsmen are averaging. If you do not think that Rahane, Elgar, Stokes, Bairstow, De Kock are good test batsmen, I do not know what to say to you. Shafiq has been nothing but a good investment and he's not going to be dropped anytime soon.

    I'm a hater because I think a batsman with 60 tests averaging under 40 should be dropped? You're one sensitive dude!

    I asked you to show me all those precious knocks that Shafiq made in our wins, but you didn't come up with a single one!

    And no, it's not a good average.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blistering Barnacle View Post
    I'm a hater because I think a batsman with 60 tests averaging under 40 should be dropped? You're one sensitive dude!

    I asked you to show me all those precious knocks that Shafiq made in our wins, but you didn't come up with a single one!

    And no, it's not a good average.
    Precisely as I was saying he could be excused if he was playing his home games in Eng, SA, NZ and etc but not when you play half of your games on the deadest tracks in world cricket. It is inexcusable.

    We're not haters, it's just that our standards are not at his level of mediocrity.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspin View Post
    Time for Miandad to call out Shafiq as he's been a chronic under performer.
    Isn't he the vice-captain? How can you drop your VC and destabilise the team? Drop some of the "underperforming players" instead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blistering Barnacle View Post
    I'm a hater because I think a batsman with 60 tests averaging under 40 should be dropped? You're one sensitive dude!

    I asked you to show me all those precious knocks that Shafiq made in our wins, but you didn't come up with a single one!

    And no, it's not a good average.
    You're being a hater if according to you, Shafiq's best performances have all come under no pressure while his failures have all been at critical situations.

    I thought someone who was calling for Shafiq to be dropped would have done their research and be familiar with his batting career but it's okay, I can help you remember if you promise not to unreasonably dismissive.

    Exhibit 'A': His fantastic performances during one of Pakistan's most important recent series in England, 2016. Not only did he score a classy, under-pressure 70-odd in the first test, he also scored a fantastic century in the last test to help take us to #1.

    Your response?

  47. #47
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    People who are whining about SR need to go watch the recent Adelaide test and then come back here.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    You're being a hater if according to you, Shafiq's best performances have all come under no pressure while his failures have all been at critical situations.

    I thought someone who was calling for Shafiq to be dropped would have done their research and be familiar with his batting career but it's okay, I can help you remember if you promise not to unreasonably dismissive.

    Exhibit 'A': His fantastic performances during one of Pakistan's most important recent series in England, 2016. Not only did he score a classy, under-pressure 70-odd in the first test, he also scored a fantastic century in the last test to help take us to #1.

    Your response?
    He has played 60+ Tests, it's impossible that he wouldn't have any major performances in wins. But the fact is that most of his performances are in situations where there's less pressure or when there is nothing to lose. His notable performances can probably be counted on one hand which is certainly not good enough for someone who has played NON-STOP Test cricket for Pakistan for 8 years.


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  49. #49
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    @Abdullah,What do you have to say on performances of Babar, Imam and Shan? And Don't give me the argument that they are young, please dont. Babar has been given 35 test innings without getting dropped even once. his test average remained in 20s for 31 innings tell me how many batsmen in our histry got that mny chances despite failures without being dropped? He's only in the team because he's a 'favourite '. Imam doesn't have a technique nor a such a good FC record that he should be persisted with. Same goes for Shan who 's been a proven failure yet get picked because of sheer nepotism in our cricket. All these players Have FC avgs in early or mid 30s which is not good enough and here you are Criticising Asad who's been playing his role since his debut. He takes 9 innings to score a hundred which isn't bad while everyone's favourite Babar Azam has scored just 1 century in 35 innings and In FC he s only 2 centuries in 48 or so innings which is extremely poor record. Why is he in the team? No one questions
    Last edited by Farhan93; 21st December 2018 at 14:54.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farhan93 View Post
    @Abdullah,What do you have to say on performances of Babar, Imam and Shan? And Don't give me the argument that they are young, please dont. Babar has been given 35 test innings without getting dropped even once. his test average remained in 20s for 31 innings tell me how many batsmen in our histry got that mny chances despite failures without being dropped? He's only in the team because he's a 'favourite '. Imam doesn't have a technique nor a such a good FC record that he should be persisted with. Same goes for Shan who 's been a proven failure yet get picked because of sheer nepotism in our cricket. All these players Have FC avgs in early or mid 30s which is not good enough and here you are Criticising Asad who's been playing his role since his debut. He takes 9 innings to score a hundred which isn't bad while everyone's favourite Babar Azam has scored just 1 century in 35 innings and In FC he s only 2 centuries in 48 or so innings which is extremely poor record. Why is he in the team? No one questions
    Huh? Babar is averaging nearly 60 in Test cricket this year and has the most runs after Haris in Tests amongst Pakistani batsmen in 2018. Clearly a good investment.

    I was in favour of Abid Ali being selected ahead of both Imam and Shan. But anyway, Shafiq is competing with the likes of Salahuddin and Saad Ali who have both performed very well in FC cricket + A team in recent times. The opening slots are tougher to fill, though I would ideally have preferred Azhar/Fakhar/Abid for this tour.


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  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah719 View Post
    He has played 60+ Tests, it's impossible that he wouldn't have any major performances in wins. But the fact is that most of his performances are in situations where there's less pressure or when there is nothing to lose. His notable performances can probably be counted on one hand which is certainly not good enough for someone who has played NON-STOP Test cricket for Pakistan for 8 years.
    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah719 View Post
    Huh? Babar is averaging nearly 60 in Test cricket this year and has the most runs after Haris in Tests amongst Pakistani batsmen in 2018. Clearly a good investment.

    I was in favour of Abid Ali being selected ahead of both Imam and Shan. But anyway, Shafiq is competing with the likes of Salahuddin and Saad Ali who have both performed very well in FC cricket + A team in recent times. The opening slots are tougher to fill, though I would ideally have preferred Azhar/Fakhar/Abid for this tour.
    Hit the nail on the head Abdullah bhai.

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    Despite obvious mediocrity of Shan and Imam fans like you're more concerned about Asad's place in the team rather than questioning their places. Those two shouldn't even be in A team let alone playing for Pakistan and costing us Matches. As for Babar, don't get fooled by this year's average there were number of times he remained not out and scored only 1 century in so called fantastic year of his career. His average s still in mid 30s which shows how pathetic he has been for us in last 2.5 years yet never got dropped I don't think any other player would have got same amount of chances. It's not good investment at all when you try to make players at test level rather than groom them in FC. Usman, Fawad and Saud Shakeel all deserve to be in the team ahead of him but Alas they are not favourites of coaches, selectors, commentators even fans and at the end it's Pak team which suffers because of such terrible decisions.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    You're being a hater if according to you, Shafiq's best performances have all come under no pressure while his failures have all been at critical situations.

    I thought someone who was calling for Shafiq to be dropped would have done their research and be familiar with his batting career but it's okay, I can help you remember if you promise not to unreasonably dismissive.

    Exhibit 'A': His fantastic performances during one of Pakistan's most important recent series in England, 2016. Not only did he score a classy, under-pressure 70-odd in the first test, he also scored a fantastic century in the last test to help take us to #1.

    Your response?
    Yes, that was a pretty good series for him, where he averaged 39. He did of course follow up with a pair of ducks in the 3rd test to continue his usual pattern.

    About the two innings you mentioned - he played well, but he was not the star. YK was the star with a double century in the last test and Misbah got a century in the first test.

  54. #54
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    Yes Abid omission is another instance which shows discrimination/favouritism rule our cricket. Abid has been scoring runs for years in domestic but his father don't sit in BoG or his uncle isn't a chief selector so he's automatically a lesser Pakistani than the other two. Fawad, Sadaf, Usman, Saud, Kashif bhatti, Mir Hamza all are victims of such discrimination while favourites like Shan, Imam, Babar, Bilal, Amir keep coming back into the side or never get dropped despite failures after failures. I don't think any other team in the world suffers from such injustice

  55. #55
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    Asad has been a very good player for us since his debut. The thing with him is, he is not a flat track bully who would break records, score double centuries on flat tracks and increase his avg massively that's why he's averaging only 46 in UAE but keeps scoring valuable runs in overseas conditions and have avg over 30 in such conditions . If you look at other overhyped asian players like Pujara, Rahul , even Azhar they avg over 50s in flat conditions but struggle away badly they have poorer records than Asad in tough conditions but score heap of runs in Asia. Ideally you would want more from Asad but expecting him to become Younis is very unfair to him. Why not remove non performers from the side and include better batsmn along side him that way they all can compensate for Younis instead you put too much on Azhar and Asad to replicate Younis.

    This batting line up would do that for me :

    Abid /Azhar
    Fakhar
    Haris
    Usman
    Fawad
    Asad /Saad /Saud
    Sarfraz

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blistering Barnacle View Post
    Yes, that was a pretty good series for him, where he averaged 39. He did of course follow up with a pair of ducks in the 3rd test to continue his usual pattern.

    About the two innings you mentioned - he played well, but he was not the star. YK was the star with a double century in the last test and Misbah got a century in the first test.
    He'll never be a star and he does not need to be one. Not every batsman a team invests in will become a great like Younis, like I said.

    That wasn't his only notable performance in our recent wins. Also played a big part in the 2015 series in Sri Lanka where him and Sarfaraz saved our innings in the first innings of the first test.

    He is merely a good test batsman and there is no shame in that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah719 View Post
    He has played 60+ Tests, it's impossible that he wouldn't have any major performances in wins. But the fact is that most of his performances are in situations where there's less pressure or when there is nothing to lose. His notable performances can probably be counted on one hand which is certainly not good enough for someone who has played NON-STOP Test cricket for Pakistan for 8 years.
    That is true of most, if not all batsmen. Him playing non-stop is because he does not get injured and has been very good at the #6 spot. Salahuddin and Saud should play, I agree, but this is already a very inexperienced lineup and adding another guy with a handful of caps and dropping the second-most experienced member of the team is asking for trouble.

    Fakhar, Imam, Haris and Babar should be blooded in fully before we try any other youngsters in the test team.
    Last edited by Bilal7; 22nd December 2018 at 18:13.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    He is merely a good test batsman and there is no shame in that.
    No one is talking about whether there is shame in that.

    Secondly it's not about whether he is subjectively a "merely good test batsman".

    It's about keeping others out of the team, about performing inconsistently, and about how much he merits his spot.

    How many top teams would keep a batsman averaging less than 40 at number 5-6. Only those with severely lacking replacements - ie., those who have no first class batsmen averaging any better. But Pakistan does.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blistering Barnacle View Post
    No one is talking about whether there is shame in that.

    Secondly it's not about whether he is subjectively a "merely good test batsman".

    It's about keeping others out of the team, about performing inconsistently, and about how much he merits his spot.

    How many top teams would keep a batsman averaging less than 40 at number 5-6. Only those with severely lacking replacements - ie., those who have no first class batsmen averaging any better. But Pakistan does.
    I think his future is on the line in this series.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post

    That is true of most, if not all batsmen. Him playing non-stop is because he does not get injured and has been very good at the #6 spot. Salahuddin and Saud should play, I agree, but this is already a very inexperienced lineup and adding another guy with a handful of caps and dropping the second-most experienced member of the team is asking for trouble.

    Fakhar, Imam, Haris and Babar should be blooded in fully before we try any other youngsters in the test team.


    Who really stopped them from involving Usman, Saud and Saad earlier?
    This excuse is invalid that the batting line up is inexperienced so better FC performers shouldn't be included anytime soon. Firstly, the current batting line up isn't taking a world by storm.
    Secondly, they deliberately didn't pick them because of sheer favouritism so this excuse will keep on making rounds forever as new non performing favourites will keep on getting selected and selectors/management will be like 'oh v have already added a new (personal favourite ) player in the team we can't include more new players (Saad/Saud/Usman) can we? we need experience'
    I am sorry but this nonsense has to stop. If one is a genuine performer he should be In the team straight away in place of non performers.Period. This nepotism, favouritism is destroying our cricket, rankings and hopes.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    That is true of most, if not all batsmen. Him playing non-stop is because he does not get injured and has been very good at the #6 spot. Salahuddin and Saud should play, I agree, but this is already a very inexperienced lineup and adding another guy with a handful of caps and dropping the second-most experienced member of the team is asking for trouble.

    Fakhar, Imam, Haris and Babar should be blooded in fully before we try any other youngsters in the test team.

    Imagine if they had planned properly and selected the team on merit for Aus n Nz series we would have the likes of Usman, Saud/Saad, Abid, Fawad, Kashif, Hamza already settled in nicely before SA series and had a group of pure performers rather than non performing favourites. But as expected in Pak cricket they wasted that opportunity and now we are in a mess.

    Btw Asad doesn't have to be necessarily replaced by Saud or Saad they can come in place of Babar, Azhar can move to the opening spot and Usman can come in at 4. For me these are our best batsmen in test
    (order wise) : Fawad, Haris, Usman, Azhar, Saud, Fakhar, Asad, Saad, Abid.

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    Time for Sarfraz to step up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aukhan View Post
    Time for Sarfraz to step up.
    Hes more likely to step down the way he and the team is performing

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaz View Post
    Hes more likely to step down the way he and the team is performing
    That looks more likely now. He should step down after the series is over. Just hand over the captaincy to Azhar Ali.

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    so asad and sarfraz are those two batsman

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunny_majoka View Post
    so asad and sarfraz are those two batsman
    You cannot replace a captain like that. He is doing well as a keeper but is there a better captain available to replace him?


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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    You cannot replace a captain like that. He is doing well as a keeper but is there a better captain available to replace him?
    you can not say this before giving chance to any one. rizwan can do better job than sarfraz and responsibilities can be given to any one of babar or azhar(for short term)

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    Sarfraz fans= Get rid of xyz because they are not performing but the player who is failing for 2 years should stay in the team.

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    Its not like Sarfaraz is a tactical genius or the only experienced player in the team. He is at best an average captain. As a WK, he is fine, but as a batsman atrocious. What better chance than to try out a young 19yo WK batsman in tests and give the rein for test cricket to Azhar Ali.

    For ODI, Sarfaraz is fine till the WC.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidilicious View Post
    Its not like Sarfaraz is a tactical genius or the only experienced player in the team. He is at best an average captain. As a WK, he is fine, but as a batsman atrocious. What better chance than to try out a young 19yo WK batsman in tests and give the rein for test cricket to Azhar Ali.

    For ODI, Sarfaraz is fine till the WC.
    Azhar Ali gave up the vice-captaincy, he is not interested in leadership.


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    Sarfaraz would do better in test cricket, IMO, if he and the team think tank remove the burden and expectation of runs from him. He should be batting 8. We should go in with faheem ashraf and that way we can pad our lower order a bit. But we have to play an extra batsman in South Africa. I think sarfaraz is doing his job as captain ans keeper but its high time we accept his batting isnt going to improve.


    Kut khani hai to aa jao idher, khushbo laga ke!

  71. #71
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    Wonder if Javed is watching this Test match.

  72. #72
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    Leave Sarfraz alone, he is from Karachi, drop others .

  73. #73
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    Sarfraz apna hai. Please drop others. :miandad

  74. #74
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    Plot twist: Sarfraz is the underperforming player.

  75. #75
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    Sarfraz is the worst player in the Test team.

  76. #76
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    Imam
    Shaan
    Azhar
    Harris
    Babar
    Rizwan
    Shadab
    Fahim
    Amir
    Shaheen
    Abbas

    This needs to be the team for the next 2 games.


    If you always do what you have always done, you will always get what you always got #improve

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muhammad10 View Post
    Plot twist: Sarfraz is the underperforming player.

    Yes n now has a pair and a average that continues to fall by the game


    If pakistan cricket is to move forward they need to stop going back

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by mak36 View Post
    Spot on.
    Your irrational support of Sarfraz is taking its toll on you, but I would still like to hear from you on how Sarfraz is not one of the underperforming players, and how these comments are “spot on”.

  79. #79
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    wow he has played for 8 years !! Long career

  80. #80
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    Sarfaraz albeit not a Misbah-ul-Haq is the only option we have. Who Else is capable? The only other option for captain is maybe Yasir. Sarfaraz has been a disappointment with the bat as well of recent. Needs to work on his technique more


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