Wisden Cricket Monthly

Sohail Speaks Yasir's Blog Fazeer's Focus

User Tag List

Results 1 to 60 of 60
  1. #1
    Debut
    Feb 2015
    Venue
    Karachi/NYC
    Runs
    25,693
    Mentioned
    1342 Post(s)
    Tagged
    7 Thread(s)

    Why is Nathan Lyon not as respected as his figures warrant?

    Discuss. Often he is seen as the weak links and one to be attacked but ends up taking more wickets.

    And this has been going almost a decade now


    #MPGA

  2. #2
    Debut
    Oct 2004
    Runs
    126,888
    Mentioned
    2386 Post(s)
    Tagged
    21 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Slog View Post
    Discuss. Often he is seen as the weak links and one to be attacked but ends up taking more wickets.

    And this has been going almost a decade now
    Think this used to be a few years back, now he is well respected.


    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  3. #3
    Debut
    Dec 2012
    Venue
    Indian Ocean
    Runs
    19,637
    Mentioned
    495 Post(s)
    Tagged
    5 Thread(s)
    Conversely, guys like Ashwin keep getting prattled out as the so-called "Best spinner going around in world cricket today."

    It's a joke. Nathan Lyon is up there bar none - he's done it home and away.

  4. #4
    Debut
    Jun 2013
    Venue
    Chicago
    Runs
    9,397
    Mentioned
    102 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)
    Nathan Lyon is currently the best spinner in the world with Yasir Shah just behind. He's not underrated anymore. Performing day in and day out on those pitches against supposedly the best batsmen against spin is no joke.

  5. #5
    Debut
    Feb 2015
    Venue
    Karachi/NYC
    Runs
    25,693
    Mentioned
    1342 Post(s)
    Tagged
    7 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by rhony View Post
    Nathan Lyon is currently the best spinner in the world with Yasir Shah just behind. He's not underrated anymore. Performing day in and day out on those pitches against supposedly the best batsmen against spin is no joke.
    I agree he is. But he isn’t recognised as such. For example in Australia he is considered less important than the pace trio even though he consistently outperforms then not just abroad but also in Australia. But all you hear about is the three pacers being hyped before every series

  6. #6
    Debut
    Aug 2011
    Runs
    20,800
    Mentioned
    358 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    I don't think Lyon is not recognized as the one of the best bowlers now. He used to disappoint 5 years ago where he didn't do much on 4th inning on crumbling pitches. He is doing much better now.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  7. #7
    Debut
    May 2017
    Venue
    Chennai
    Runs
    2,662
    Mentioned
    101 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    He has come on his own only in the last 2 years, before that he wasn't exactly great and had a few horror years. Slowly he is earning respect and who knows by the time he retires he will get his due, kinda like Herath. Who knew about Herath 8 years ago?

  8. #8
    Debut
    Dec 2012
    Venue
    India
    Runs
    9,901
    Mentioned
    183 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    He wasn't as good before. Best off-spinner in the world right now and much better than the over-hyped Ashwin.

  9. #9
    Debut
    Feb 2015
    Venue
    Karachi/NYC
    Runs
    25,693
    Mentioned
    1342 Post(s)
    Tagged
    7 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by battler View Post
    He wasn't as good before. Best off-spinner in the world right now and much better than the over-hyped Ashwin.
    Yea but ask 10 people, 9 will still say Ashwin is the better spinner and more dangerous whereas Lyon is a simple bowler who has no mystery or significant threat about him

    By almost everyone he is considered the 4th biggest threat in the Aussie attack right now but all data suggests that asides from maybe Starc he has been a better performer than the rest everywhere

  10. #10
    Debut
    Aug 2018
    Runs
    557
    Mentioned
    26 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    best spinner in the world.
    bowled well without any support against us.

    he is not as respected as his figures warrant because he is an off spinner. if he had the same figures, but was a leg spinner, we would not be having this conversation.

    australians tend to prefer watching fast bowling and leg spinners. lyon is overshadowed by starc,hazlewood,cummins and the focus is more on them because they bowl fast.

  11. #11
    Debut
    Feb 2010
    Runs
    7,322
    Mentioned
    56 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)
    He’s been phenomenal in last 2 years and his reputation has only got better.

    One reason for lack of recognition could be lack of MoM and MOS awards - has 4 MoM and one MoS (vs BD). For comparison, Ashwin has 7 MoMs and 7 MoS and Yasir has 4 MoMs and 5 MoS

  12. #12
    Debut
    Dec 2012
    Venue
    India
    Runs
    9,901
    Mentioned
    183 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Slog View Post
    Yea but ask 10 people, 9 will still say Ashwin is the better spinner and more dangerous whereas Lyon is a simple bowler who has no mystery or significant threat about him

    By almost everyone he is considered the 4th biggest threat in the Aussie attack right now but all data suggests that asides from maybe Starc he has been a better performer than the rest everywhere
    First impression usually makes a really heavy impression on most fans. Only the very keen followers tend to change opinion plus the average cricket fan confuses formats as well, best case in point Rohit Sharma.
    I agree this series he's been India's biggest threat followed by Cummins. Starc I feel isn't much of a threat if he isn't bowling to the tail.

  13. #13
    Debut
    Mar 2018
    Runs
    152
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Ashwin is a pie chucker in front of him.

    He is relentless and the amount of revs on the ball is far greater than ashwin.

    He is in the graeme swann category of very good bowler sticking to off and outside offstump line.

    Our ashwin sticks to middle and leg line normally or leg stump darts if he is not taking wickets.

  14. #14
    Debut
    Mar 2016
    Venue
    Sheffield
    Runs
    32,124
    Mentioned
    438 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Best test spinner in the world for me. Think he is slowly getting the recognition he deserves.

  15. #15
    Debut
    Sep 2018
    Runs
    4,068
    Mentioned
    283 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)
    Very impressive. Think if he played the majority of his games he would have a much better average. Not a great average in UAE though.

  16. #16
    Debut
    Jun 2008
    Venue
    Moscow, Russia
    Runs
    32,266
    Mentioned
    354 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Lyon has been more consistent in the last 3 years and does deserve the credit but doesn't get it much at home or away despite doing what he does.

  17. #17
    Debut
    Oct 2015
    Venue
    Andromeda
    Runs
    3,970
    Mentioned
    35 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    As a Pakistani fan, I expected him to wreck havoc in UAE. It was a downer.

    He is a match winner tho. One of the best around these days. Flawless action, doesn't lose the north when he's hit, plans and captures his victims. Ideal test spinner

  18. #18
    Debut
    Feb 2006
    Runs
    34,811
    Mentioned
    421 Post(s)
    Tagged
    5 Thread(s)
    He has massively improved in the last 3-4 years. The Australians have also backed him and consistently played him which must have helped his confidence. For a plain off spinner, I enjoy how much flight and turn he gets on the ball.

  19. #19
    Debut
    Oct 2015
    Venue
    Andromeda
    Runs
    3,970
    Mentioned
    35 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Reyansh2017 View Post
    Ashwin is a pie chucker in front of him.

    He is relentless and the amount of revs on the ball is far greater than ashwin.

    He is in the graeme swann category of very good bowler sticking to off and outside offstump line.

    Our ashwin sticks to middle and leg line normally or leg stump darts if he is not taking wickets.
    Man Ashwin in CT final was a sight to behold leg stump half volleys

  20. #20
    Debut
    Jun 2018
    Runs
    1,192
    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Anyone with 335+ wickets in 82 tests, deserves massive amount of respect and Lyon is getting it now.

  21. #21
    Debut
    May 2017
    Venue
    Chennai
    Runs
    2,662
    Mentioned
    101 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by WhenSultansBowled View Post
    Man Ashwin in CT final was a sight to behold leg stump half volleys
    We prefer to remember the Ashwin of 2013 CT final

  22. #22
    Debut
    Jul 2010
    Venue
    Glasgow
    Runs
    516
    Mentioned
    29 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    He gets a ton of respect..... his nickname is GOAT... what more can he want?!

  23. #23
    Debut
    Jul 2012
    Venue
    UK
    Runs
    5,445
    Mentioned
    59 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)
    I think he is peaking now as a bowler. If he continues this form he will gain more respect.

  24. #24
    Debut
    Nov 2011
    Runs
    22,839
    Mentioned
    216 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)
    I have to say i I have a lot of respect for nathan lyon. Like a lot of folks have noted he is reaching towards the peak in these last two years.
    But to be an off-spinner, who doesn't resort to full sleeve bowling, and to bowl in Australia and then to adjust for the subcontinent and then be successful, is very impressive.

  25. #25
    Debut
    Mar 2018
    Runs
    152
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Best spinner by a country mile right now in world Cricket

  26. #26
    Debut
    Sep 2012
    Runs
    85,663
    Mentioned
    6483 Post(s)
    Tagged
    38 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Rose View Post
    I have to say i I have a lot of respect for nathan lyon. Like a lot of folks have noted he is reaching towards the peak in these last two years.
    But to be an off-spinner, who doesn't resort to full sleeve bowling, and to bowl in Australia and then to adjust for the subcontinent and then be successful, is very impressive.
    Well he does, although not for the same reasons as Ajmal and Hafeez.

  27. #27
    Debut
    Feb 2010
    Runs
    7,322
    Mentioned
    56 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Reyansh2017 View Post
    Ashwin is a pie chucker in front of him.

    He is relentless and the amount of revs on the ball is far greater than ashwin.

    He is in the graeme swann category of very good bowler sticking to off and outside offstump line.

    Our ashwin sticks to middle and leg line normally or leg stump darts if he is not taking wickets.
    Lyon being good doesn't mean Ashwin has to be mocked. Even in the first test, Ashwin bowled as well as Lyon did or perhaps even better. If he was fit, we would have been in a much better position to win the 2nd test. He'll still have an impact in the next two tests if fit to play and selected.

  28. #28
    Debut
    Mar 2018
    Runs
    152
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cricketindiafan View Post
    Lyon being good doesn't mean Ashwin has to be mocked. Even in the first test, Ashwin bowled as well as Lyon did or perhaps even better. If he was fit, we would have been in a much better position to win the 2nd test. He'll still have an impact in the next two tests if fit to play and selected.
    Oh please. His performance is not in the same ball park as lyon in Adelaide test. Its like saying Mitchell starc is equal or as good as bumrah based on stats.

    For a supposedly best spinner not looking like taking a wicket the whole day is a disgraceful performance.

    He has never given a single note worthy performance in England, South Africa, Australia, nz and i dont think he will in his lifetime.

    For God's sake he doesn't have a single five wicket hall after playing so many tests in SENA countries.

  29. #29
    Debut
    Jul 2015
    Venue
    Karachi
    Runs
    5,395
    Mentioned
    364 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    Think this used to be a few years back, now he is well respected.
    I think the same.

  30. #30
    Debut
    May 2013
    Runs
    5,864
    Mentioned
    101 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)
    He wasn't that good before but over the past 3-4 years he has been one of the best in the world. Has outbowled Ashwin in India and Yasir in the UAE. That says everything.

  31. #31
    Debut
    Mar 2016
    Runs
    1,441
    Mentioned
    59 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    He was not that good earlier in his career. But that 2013 series in India was the watershed moment for him. After that, he has consistently been getting better.
    You can also take into account that he was brought in the Test side with very little FC exposure. It was actually BBL where he got noticed first. Michael Clarke used him situationally in first 2-3 years and would hesitate to bring him on when the opposition was dominating their attack.
    After that India series, in Ashes 13, he started to gain respect when Pup started throwing him the bowl in tougher situations. I believe he got a 4fer in 3rd Ashes Test with going for less than 3. Before that, it was expected of him to be going for over 3.
    John Davison(the former Canadian captain) has been a personal spin mentor for Lyon as well(way before he was employed in the coaching capacity by CA) which Lyon never hesitates to give credit to for his success.

    In last few years, he has been getting better with every Test and is now at the level where he commands a lot of respect by every opposition.

  32. #32
    Debut
    Mar 2016
    Venue
    india
    Runs
    256
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Lyon is clearly ahead atm bcz he is in the peak of his powers last 2 years.
    Whereas ashwin has waned down a bit.

    Overall ashwin is still ahead by small margin. Their legacy will be judged after their career is over. Whether they get to 400, 500 or 600 wickets.

  33. #33
    Debut
    Feb 2012
    Runs
    3,119
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by battler View Post
    He wasn't as good before. Best off-spinner in the world right now and much better than the over-hyped Ashwin.
    Pretty much it. He'll tell you himself he had to figure out how to bowl in Asia. He had to get over the mental hurdle of delivering in 4th innings at home. He slowly learnt more about operating at different speeds which lines work best for him.

    He was not a freakish talent who emerged to cricket fully formed. He was a guy from the country, playing in 2nd tier below Shield and cutting the grass at As=delaide oval who got a lucky break into the BBL & took his chance in his mid 20s.

    He had to learn and learn and get the belief too that he was good enough. The last 2 or 3 years he's become a complete spinner but his first few years he had areas of his game he needed to develop, so quite rightly was seen as a limited or average player back then.

  34. #34
    Debut
    Sep 2017
    Runs
    3,014
    Mentioned
    209 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Maybe because of their overall stats

    Lyon: 82 tests : 334 wickets @ 31.60
    Ashwin: 65 tests : 342 wickets @ 25.43.

    Ashwin also has 150 ODI wickets compared to Lyon's 18.

    Ashwin has played some T20I's, Lyon has played 2.

    Overall stats give an impression of Ashwin having dome much better than Lyon in their careers.

  35. #35
    Debut
    Aug 2013
    Venue
    Chennai
    Runs
    33,031
    Mentioned
    954 Post(s)
    Tagged
    11 Thread(s)
    Perception problem.

    He is getting his dues slowly.

    Mighty fine bowler.


    I am not one of you. I never was. I am not one of them either.

  36. #36
    Debut
    Nov 2008
    Runs
    10,229
    Mentioned
    66 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    He has recently been acknowledged as a fine bowler by some legends of the game.. he helped beat number one test team who are great players of spin.. he is a very good bowler....


    Kut khani hai to aa jao idher, khushbo laga ke!

  37. #37
    Debut
    Nov 2012
    Venue
    Gondor > The Shire
    Runs
    19,121
    Mentioned
    1506 Post(s)
    Tagged
    14 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Oligochaetes View Post
    Maybe because of their overall stats

    Lyon: 82 tests : 334 wickets @ 31.60
    Ashwin: 65 tests : 342 wickets @ 25.43.

    Ashwin also has 150 ODI wickets compared to Lyon's 18.

    Ashwin has played some T20I's, Lyon has played 2.

    Overall stats give an impression of Ashwin having dome much better than Lyon in their careers.
    Ashwin's stats don't look as good when you consider that he has taken 277 wickets at 22.5 in 45 tests in Asia compared to 65 wickets at 38 from 20 tests outside of Asia.

    Lyon on the other hand only has poor figures in South Africa.


    Quote Originally Posted by Saqs on Steve Smith
    And who taught him to bat? Chris Martin? Is he the Australian equivalent of ....wait, I'm struggling to think of another useless player of his calibre.

  38. #38
    Debut
    Jun 2018
    Runs
    1,192
    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Oligochaetes View Post
    Maybe because of their overall stats

    Lyon: 82 tests : 334 wickets @ 31.60
    Ashwin: 65 tests : 342 wickets @ 25.43.

    Ashwin also has 150 ODI wickets compared to Lyon's 18.

    Ashwin has played some T20I's, Lyon has played 2.

    Overall stats give an impression of Ashwin having dome much better than Lyon in their careers.
    That's not a fair comparison simply because on Indian pitches, even if Rohit Sharma is selected as a spinner will end up with 100 wickets in 25 matches @25. Ashwin outside India is a dud and that how frequently he breaks down on overseas trips shows how he just doesn't have it in him to last challenging tours. Lyon on the other hand gets wickets without much help from pitches, and he gets top class players out in a very convincing manner - bowled and caught in slip.

  39. #39
    Debut
    May 2017
    Venue
    Chennai
    Runs
    2,662
    Mentioned
    101 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by happydavy View Post
    That's not a fair comparison simply because on Indian pitches, even if Rohit Sharma is selected as a spinner will end up with 100 wickets in 25 matches @25. Ashwin outside India is a dud and that how frequently he breaks down on overseas trips shows how he just doesn't have it in him to last challenging tours. Lyon on the other hand gets wickets without much help from pitches, and he gets top class players out in a very convincing manner - bowled and caught in slip.
    Lyon averages 31 in India
    Herath averages 54 in India
    Moeen Ali averages 65 in India

    But Ashwin is dud, Rohit Sharma is potentially a great spinner in your universe?

    Do you know Bangladesh, WI, Sri Lanka are outside India or do you need basic geography lessons? Last I heard he was MOTS in WI and Lanka (helped us win after 22 years), and the best bowler from both sides in Bangladesh. Averages 32 in England, outbowled Keshav Maharaj in SA and has better numbers in Australia (graveyeard for visiting offies) than Murali, Swann, Ajmal, Harbhajan, Moeen Ali !!!!
    Last edited by Swashbuckler; 22nd December 2018 at 18:56.

  40. #40
    Debut
    Aug 2011
    Runs
    20,800
    Mentioned
    358 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Now Lyon has been bowling well this year and got lots of praise. As soon as he was attacked by a newbie Indian , he went totally defensive. Ended with an ordinary stats for 2018.

    Lyons stats in 2018

    49 wickets: Avg 34+ & SR 75+

    That's after bowling well this year. He bowls much better when he is attacking. He needs to improve on that otherwise he will be stuck at the same level. I was shocked to see him having long on in his first few overs of this test. Two cover drives and he had fielders saving boundaries when series was 1-1 and momentum was with Aus. All that in first 10-15 overs of test match.

    Hopefully, he bowls with a better mindset in next test and make it 2-2.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions


  41. #41
    Debut
    Nov 2017
    Runs
    1,671
    Mentioned
    42 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    He is okay. But not awesome. Currently very few players play spin well. He is taking wickets against weak players. That's why he is not rated.

  42. #42
    Debut
    Aug 2011
    Runs
    20,800
    Mentioned
    358 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by BaankeJi View Post
    He is okay. But not awesome. Currently very few players play spin well. He is taking wickets against weak players. That's why he is not rated.
    With that logic no spinner can be rated in current era.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  43. #43
    Debut
    Jul 2013
    Runs
    18,802
    Mentioned
    886 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    No better spinner in the world right now.

  44. #44
    Debut
    Oct 2004
    Runs
    126,888
    Mentioned
    2386 Post(s)
    Tagged
    21 Thread(s)
    Lyon is an amazing part of the Australian team - but he is lucky to have fast bowlers and batsmen who can take the game into the 4/5th days


    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  45. #45
    Debut
    Oct 2004
    Runs
    126,888
    Mentioned
    2386 Post(s)
    Tagged
    21 Thread(s)
    5 wickets
    - 16th Test five-wicket haul
    - 50 Test wickets at Adelaide Oval

    What a performer!


    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  46. #46
    Debut
    Oct 2004
    Runs
    126,888
    Mentioned
    2386 Post(s)
    Tagged
    21 Thread(s)
    Hampshire Cricket can announce it has taken the decision to cancel the contract of overseas player, Nathan Lyon.

    The Australian international was due to join the club for a significant part of the 2020 red-ball season, however given the cancellation of all domestic fixtures until 28th May as a result of the current COVID-19 pandemic, it has been mutually agreed that the off-spinner will not join up with the squad this season.

    Hampshire Cricket Director of Cricket, Giles White said: “These are obviously very uncertain and challenging times, and it’s clear the issues cricket currently faces will contribute to the way in which counties are able to operate and prepare for this season. As a result of this and following conversations with Nathan and his management, it was mutually agreed that he would no longer join us this season.

    “I would like to thank Nathan and his representatives for their complete understanding and agreement and we hope to welcome him to the club next season.”


    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  47. #47
    Debut
    Mar 2016
    Venue
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Runs
    7,580
    Mentioned
    310 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Lyon is the best Aussie spinner of all time after Warne. This guy deserves more credit.


    Bangladeshi Fan

  48. #48
    Debut
    Sep 2015
    Venue
    Bangalore, India
    Runs
    12,888
    Mentioned
    220 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Very very good bowler, same as Ashwin and Herath. But will always rate Warne, Murali and Kumble higher among modern era bowlers.

  49. #49
    Debut
    Nov 2007
    Runs
    28,341
    Mentioned
    957 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)
    Best finger spinner from Australia since.... ever?

    He tends to get his wickets early in a series and then lose effect. But that’s fine - he forces wins early, so Australia get ahead in the series and the oppo has to chase.

  50. #50
    Debut
    Nov 2007
    Runs
    28,341
    Mentioned
    957 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by sweep_shot View Post
    Lyon is the best Aussie spinner of all time after Warne. This guy deserves more credit.
    Nah, a lot of leggies were better. Grimmett, O’Reilly, Benaud, MacGill.

  51. #51
    Debut
    Sep 2017
    Runs
    449
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Excellent bowler.

  52. #52
    Debut
    Jan 2013
    Runs
    14,477
    Mentioned
    2256 Post(s)
    Tagged
    10 Thread(s)
    There are a few reasons why Lyon is less loved than you’d expect.

    He’s an off-spinner who can be very hard to play against, but after a decade of international cricket still often goes missing and averages not just over 30, but almost 32. And only contributes 12 runs per innings with the bat.

    And his private life has made him an oddly awkward figure within the national team. The Aussie players’ wives and girlfriends travel with the team not just on tour, but in home series around Australia. The mother of his children was popular with the other WAGS and when their relationship ended, many of them remained friends with her. The fact that his next lady friend had previously been around the team as the partner of another player (who had no problem with this, to be fair) made things even more awkward.

    It’s an unusual by-product of having the WAGS around the team that, while Lyon’s private life is completely normal and non-scandalous by local norms, it has made life very awkward on tour for the other players, who find themselves caught between their positive relationship with Lyon and their partners’ divided loyalties.

    It’s nothing like the Wayne Bridge / John Terry issue, but it does make things very complicated.
    Last edited by Junaids; 10th April 2020 at 20:58.

  53. #53
    Debut
    Sep 2015
    Venue
    Bangalore, India
    Runs
    12,888
    Mentioned
    220 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Nah, a lot of leggies were better. Grimmett, O’Reilly, Benaud, MacGill.
    @Robby, Swann or Lyon, your pick?

  54. #54
    Debut
    Nov 2007
    Runs
    28,341
    Mentioned
    957 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    @Robby, Swann or Lyon, your pick?
    Hmmmm.

    Swann gave it more of a rip and could beat the bat on both sides because he drifted away from the right handed. He was brilliant against lefty batters.

    Lyon beats more batters in the flight because he gets overspin and it drops a foot short of where the batter expects. Curiously he does well in his own land which is usually a fingerspinner’s graveyard.

    Not much difference as bowlers.

    I’ll have Swann because he could counterattack with the bat, was an excellent slip and clever tactically, advising Strauss and Cook. Plus he’s funny.

  55. #55
    Debut
    Jan 2013
    Runs
    14,477
    Mentioned
    2256 Post(s)
    Tagged
    10 Thread(s)
    I think Tim May was better than Lyon: he just couldn’t get into the team because of Warne.

  56. #56
    Debut
    Jun 2019
    Runs
    3,757
    Mentioned
    32 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    far better bowler than warne who played on helpful wickets and during an era which was notoriously known for cheating via using foreign objects to tamper with the ball etc.

  57. #57
    Debut
    Feb 2012
    Runs
    3,119
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Hmmmm.

    Swann gave it more of a rip and could beat the bat on both sides because he drifted away from the right handed. He was brilliant against lefty batters.

    Lyon beats more batters in the flight because he gets overspin and it drops a foot short of where the batter expects. Curiously he does well in his own land which is usually a fingerspinner’s graveyard.

    Not much difference as bowlers.

    I’ll have Swann because he could counterattack with the bat, was an excellent slip and clever tactically, advising Strauss and Cook. Plus he’s funny.
    Swann is funny but was part of a bit of a bully clique. Lyon is heart & soul of his team, gives the speech after winning tests & custodian of the Southern Cross chant etc. So I'll call that even.

    It's Lyon's overspin which makes him so effective in Oz, where bounce is a big weapon. A lot of bat pads & caught leg slip/leg gully as a ball jumps at the hip. Same style has seen him struggle at times in Asia, where bounce is not always there and side spin (allied with the straight one) is a better tool.

    Swann had the more side spin (& sideways drift at his best), which made him a touch better in Asia.

    Thing about Lyon is he has continued to grow as a bowler. He's recognised his need to change in Asia & has started to improve there. For years he'd tighten up in the 4th inning & sometimes not do the job but he's a regular threat in the 4th innings now too.

    So I can see why early on he went without credit- he'll tell you himself he's twice the bowler now he was then. He is an atg off spinner up with Swann, Saqlain, Laker etc. And he's not done yet. He has 390 Test wickets & he'll play another 5 years. He'll likely end with 600 Test wickets and a spot in the pantheon of atg spinners of any kind.

    He is the best offie in the world because Ashwin can't even hold his place in the team on overseas tours, he's regularly dropped.

  58. #58
    Debut
    Nov 2017
    Runs
    2,402
    Mentioned
    89 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by tyron_woodley View Post
    far better bowler than warne who played on helpful wickets and during an era which was notoriously known for cheating via using foreign objects to tamper with the ball etc.
    Shami is also better than mcgrath.

    Lyon is given due credit for what he does, he averages 32 not 22.
    Why do people want him to be treated as an atg when he's clearly not.

  59. #59
    Debut
    Jan 2013
    Runs
    14,477
    Mentioned
    2256 Post(s)
    Tagged
    10 Thread(s)
    I think that Lyon probably shouldn’t be in the Test team except in Asia.

    He isn’t as good a spinner as any of the four main quicks are at their role, and he is keeping Pattinson out of the team.

    If Australia had a good spin-bowling all-rounder, or a keeper who could bat at 6, then Lyon wouldn’t be in the team. A Jadeja or a Watling would make him unselectable.

    I think that if Australia had Pattinson batting at 8, Cummins at 9, Starc at 10 and Hazlewood at 11 they would have a West Indies 76-95 quality attack.

    But that would require a Carey batting at 6 and a Jadeja or even a Moeen Ali batting at 7. And that Aussie Jadeja does not exist.

  60. #60
    Debut
    Nov 2017
    Runs
    2,402
    Mentioned
    89 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    I think that Lyon probably shouldn’t be in the Test team except in Asia.

    He isn’t as good a spinner as any of the four main quicks are at their role, and he is keeping Pattinson out of the team.

    If Australia had a good spin-bowling all-rounder, or a keeper who could bat at 6, then Lyon wouldn’t be in the team. A Jadeja or a Watling would make him unselectable.

    I think that if Australia had Pattinson batting at 8, Cummins at 9, Starc at 10 and Hazlewood at 11 they would have a West Indies 76-95 quality attack.

    But that would require a Carey batting at 6 and a Jadeja or even a Moeen Ali batting at 7. And that Aussie Jadeja does not exist.
    Lyon is definitely better in his role than mitchell starc, who usually goes for runs.

    Secondly, as we saw in 2018 ind tour if aus the Australian pacers are not invincible on flat tracks they"ll need lyon to spin them out of trouble.
    Lyon is mandatory for adelaide and scg tracks.


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •