"Will show Modi government how to treat minorities," says Imran Khan


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  1. #1
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    "Will show Modi government how to treat minorities," says Imran Khan

    So Naya Pakistan is going to become the land of milk and honey for minorities.


    Pakistan Prime Minister Imran Khan on Saturday said he will "show" the Narendra Modi government "how to treat minorities", amidst a controversy over Bollywood actor Naseeruddin Shah's remarks on mob violence in India.

    Mr Shah finds himself at the centre of a major controversy over his remarks on the cases of mob lynching in India following the killing of a policeman in Uttar Pradesh's Bulandshahr district earlier this month.

    Addressing an event to highlight the 100-day achievements of the Punjab government in Lahore, Mr Khan asserted that his government is taking steps to ensure that religious minorities in Pakistan get their due rights, which was also a vision of the country's founder Muhammad Ali Jinnah.

    Mr Khan said his government will make it sure that the minorities feel safe, protected and have equal rights in 'New Pakistan'.

    "We will show the Modi government how to treat minorities...Even in India, people are saying that minorities are not being treated as equal citizens," he said referring to Mr Shah's statement.

    In a video interview with Karwan-e-Mohabbat India, the veteran actor said the death of a cow was being given importance over killing of a policeman in India.

    He said the "poison has already spread" and it will be now difficult to contain it.

    "It will be very difficult to capture this djinn back into the bottle again. There is complete impunity for those who take law into their own hands...I feel anxious for my children because tomorrow if a mob surrounds them and asks, 'Are you a Hindu or a Muslim?' they will have no answer. It worries me that I don't see the situation improving anytime soon," Mr Shah added.

    Imran Khan said if justice is not given to the weak then it will only lead to an uprising.

    Giving an example, he said, "The people of East Pakistan were not given their rights, which was the main reason behind the creation of Bangladesh."

    On December 3, Inspector Subodh Kumar Singh and a student, Sumit Kumar, were killed in mob violence in Bulandshahr after cow carcasses were found strewn around.

    The main accused in the case is a local Bajrang Dal leader, Yogesh Raj.
    https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/imra...home-topscroll

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    People could argue that IK should act like a proper stateman and stop putting nose in neighbourís affairs. IKís problem is that he does not know how to be diplomatic. He gives his piece of mind when asked a question. I am guessing a journalist asked him to comment on the Naseeruddin Shah affair.

    IK needs to tone down a bit.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by gazza619 View Post
    People could argue that IK should act like a proper stateman and stop putting nose in neighbour’s affairs. IK’s problem is that he does not know how to be diplomatic. He gives his piece of mind when asked a question. I am guessing a journalist asked him to comment on the Naseeruddin Shah affair.

    IK needs to tone down a bit.
    The bigger issue is it appears he doesn't know that the constitution of Pakistan officially discriminates against Non-Muslims and that Pakistan by definition is a theocracy. He aint going to change that in next 10 lifetimes let alone this one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tusker View Post
    The bigger issue is it appears he doesn't know that the constitution of Pakistan officially discriminates against Non-Muslims and that Pakistan by definition is a theocracy. He aint going to change that in next 10 lifetimes let alone this one.
    Yeah i know. Things will gradually change. Who would have dared to imagine a few months ago that hate preacher Khadim Hussain Rizvi alongside his supporters will be behind bars.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by gazza619 View Post
    Yeah i know. Things will gradually change. Who would have dared to imagine a few months ago that hate preacher Khadim Hussain Rizvi alongside his supporters will be behind bars.
    Yup step in the right direction but they ( Mullahs+Military alliance) wont let him continue like that for long. I will be very surprised if they do. Time will tell.

  6. #6
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    IK needs to pipe down and focus on his own job.

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    seem like Pakistan will be able to control and minimize its extremists groups before Indian Muslims are told to go to Pakistan for speaking the truth.

  8. #8
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    Pakistani Trump has spoken. Modi must be shivering with fear now.

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    We don't need to show India anything. Show our minorities that we love them and consider them to be our own people.


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tusker View Post
    The bigger issue is it appears he doesn't know that the constitution of Pakistan officially discriminates against Non-Muslims and that Pakistan by definition is a theocracy. He aint going to change that in next 10 lifetimes let alone this one.
    Interesting. How does Pakistan's constitution officially discriminate against minorities?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madplayer View Post
    Interesting. How does Pakistan's constitution officially discriminate against minorities?
    Isn't there the Ahmedi thing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madplayer View Post
    Interesting. How does Pakistan's constitution officially discriminate against minorities?
    A Pakistani poster himself made an interesting post in one of the threads. Let me dig up. It was few months ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    Isn't there the Ahmedi thing?
    Yes there is that. They have a problem with Ahmedis calling themselves muslim and they would discriminate against them until they stop calling themselves muslim. So we have 1 case of discrimination already. Lets see how many more come up.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itachi View Post
    A Pakistani poster himself made an interesting post in one of the threads. Let me dig up. It was few months ago.
    Thank you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madplayer View Post
    Lets see how many more come up.
    Non muslims are disqualified from being the civilian head aka PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madplayer View Post
    Interesting. How does Pakistan's constitution officially discriminate against minorities?
    Ok the list is so long that i cant even write

    Can a hindu or christian become prime minister in pakistan ? Isnt that discrimimation?
    Can a hindu and other communities eat pork or have alcohol while others are fasting ?
    Can a non muslim write about islam and logical things openly in pakistan ?vice versa things happens in india crores of times per day.
    Can ahmedi be muslims ?
    Can this,can that oh man . Pakistan need 1000 years to reach the level of india to how to treat minorities.
    In india in last 5 years ,out of 125 crore population ,not even 100 people died due tp cows.
    We know we have high standards and dnt mind criticism.
    Last edited by Akki malhotra; 23rd December 2018 at 11:13.

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    Hope he can do that, Pakistani minorities have been a voiceless oppressed community all these years. IK because of his global outlook and past professional career which involved interacting with other religions, cultures etc might be different. But huge lacuna between words and actions. Till now he has spoken more about Indian minorities than Pakistani counterparts. His PTI government oversaw a large exodus of Sikhs from Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province and he did nothing to address those sufferings. Track record isn't encouraging and even if he wants to do something good, there will be opposition.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Pakistani Trump has spoken. Modi must be shivering with fear now.
    Spoken like a true Indian. Jai Hind.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madplayer View Post
    Yes there is that. They have a problem with Ahmedis calling themselves muslim and they would discriminate against them until they stop calling themselves muslim. So we have 1 case of discrimination already. Lets see how many more come up.
    Pakistani constitution officially allows only Muslims to become a President.

    Then there is plenty of circumstantial evidence that cuts a sorry state of affairs for minorities in Pakistan. Population of minorities declining from 20% at partition to about 3-4% today.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tusker View Post
    Pakistani constitution officially allows only Muslims to become a President.

    Then there is plenty of circumstantial evidence that cuts a sorry state of affairs for minorities in Pakistan. Population of minorities declining from 20% at partition to about 3-4% today.
    Population was 20% because that comprised both wings. The minority population was always around this range in West Pakistan and since the creation of Bangladesh the population percentage of minorities has hovered around the same number.

    Don't run mouth without knowledge.
    Last edited by Abdullah719; 30th December 2018 at 12:50.

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    Desi Donald Trump.


    Tazimi Sirdar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    This is what happens when dumb ignorant people act smart. Population was 20% because that comprised both wings. The minority population was always around this range in West Pakistan and since the creation of Bangladesh the population percentage of minorities has hovered around the same number.

    Don't run mouth without knowledge.
    Your lack of knowledge about your own country is appalling.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindui...kistan#Decline

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persec...dus#Pakistan_2

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    Wikipedia

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tusker View Post
    Pakistani constitution officially allows only Muslims to become a President.

    Then there is plenty of circumstantial evidence that cuts a sorry state of affairs for minorities in Pakistan. Population of minorities declining from 20% at partition to about 3-4% today.
    I think the Hindu population in West Pakistan has remained stable since 1951 census. East Pakistan had the bulk load of Hindu population and as per their census the Hindu population as share of total population declined sharply (much more steep fall than can be explained by difference in fertility rates) between 1951 to 1974 and continues to fall to this day although the rate has slowed down in recent times. It is a well known fact that Pakistani military organized a series of pogroms (starting from early 50s) in East Pakistan to remove the Hindu influence and as a result many Hindus were either killed, converted or forced to migrate to India, same with Buddhists and indigenous tribes (Chittagong Hill Tracts). But to their credit Bangladeshi freedom fighters were relatively secular/humane and their conscience couldn't bear the atrocities inflicted upon their Bengali neighbors, difference in religion notwithstanding.

  25. #25
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    Well, if a perceived treatment of minorities in India makes life good for Ahmedis / Jews / Shias / Sikhs / Hindus / Others in Pakistan, good for them. One needn't be linked to the other in a perfect world, but at this point either country should take what comes.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    Well, if a perceived treatment of minorities in India makes life good for Ahmedis / Jews / Shias / Sikhs / Hindus / Others in Pakistan, good for them. One needn't be linked to the other in a perfect world, but at this point either country should take what comes.
    Good post. Let's hope in both countries people open heart for minorities and less well off people, rather than playing politics with their lives.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Pakistani Trump has spoken. Modi must be shivering with fear now.
    IK does like to shoot his mouth off .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Pakistani Trump has spoken. Modi must be shivering with fear now.
    He does not need to shiver just take example from Imran Khan's to do politics without using lives of minorities to win votes.pakistan itself has long way to go but is at least now outlawing crimes and discouraging acts and hate speaches against minorities.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ILcricket View Post
    IK does like to shoot his mouth off .
    Heroes but it is pre planned to raise awareness of plights of Muslims and Kashmiris in India to the wide world.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by PakPremi View Post
    Heroes but it is pre planned to raise awareness of plights of Muslims and Kashmiris in India to the wide world.
    Yet hardly anh muslim is willing to leave India and settle in Pakistan or BD. Yet muslins from BD are entering India daily in search of a better life. Yet Rohingya muslims dont want to leave India.

    There is a reason why the pak narrative on India isnt taken seriously by most world leaders.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swashbuckler View Post
    It is a well known fact that Pakistani military organized a series of pogroms (starting from early 50s) in East Pakistan to remove the Hindu influence and as a result many Hindus were either killed, converted or forced to migrate to India, same with Buddhists and indigenous tribes (Chittagong Hill Tracts).
    There were also waves of Muslims refugees from West Bengal to East Bengal during the 1950s and 1960s particularly in the aftermath of communal violence. A particularly large exodus followed in the aftermath of 1964 Calcutta riots and in 1950-51 following disturbances in the district of Nadia.

    Going somewhat off topic, but providing some context, such evidence also points to the need to see partition as one that involved a varied experience across the Indian sub-continent. Popular history still tends to present an undifferentiated picture across the subcontinent based on the Punjab experience. The archetypal images are usually drawn from the Punjab. Think of the vast refugee foot columns interspersed with bullock carts. But there were important differences.

    In Bengal a sense of unfinished business persisted for many years after the event. The border in Bengal was far more porous than the one in Punjab. Willem van Schendel has drawn attention to the fact that in Bengal it was not unknown for state employees, including policemen and members of the armed forces to serve one state but to live in another. Many continued to send their children to schools that were now across the border. In the Punjab, the brutality and intensity of the violence which occurred over a short time span particularly stands out. Far from being acts of temporary madness, there is in fact much evidence that the violence was highly organised and carried out with military precision. Colonial recruitment practices led to a large number of demobilised soldiers in Punjab and that is likely to have shaped some of the intensity of the violence. In Bengal violence was more contained but spread over a greater number of years.

    In Bengal, migrations were unassisted and unregulated by army and state. Indeed migration was actively discouraged by central and provincial governments. In the Punjab though, the states and the armies actively intervened to assist with evacuation on both sides of the Punjab, effectively aiming for an exchange of populations.

    As noted, migration across the Bengal border continued - both ways - for years and years after 1947. The two way flow in the Punjab was in comparison in a concentrated time frame with the movement being largely en masse. After November 1947, there was very little movement with both sides of Punjab largely emptied of the religious minority populations.

    Rehabilitation was offered on a far more limited scale in Bengal, although there is more research on West Bengal than East Bengal on this topic. Despite the fact that by 1951 the number of West Bengal refugees exceeded the East Punjab number, rehabilitation was a long drawn out affair for those in West Bengal and was quite ineffective. Squatter communities, especially around Calcutta, arose as refugees sought to self-rehabilitate themselves. Unlike the situation in the Punjab, Muslim evacuee property was not to be provided to incoming Hindu refugees and there was no compensation for loss of properties. There is also evidence of ghettoisation of minority communities that stayed on in the aftermath of partition.

    In some ways the Karachi experience was closer to that of Bengal than Punjab.

  32. #32
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    Nasseruddin Shah replies to Imran Khan

    Shah told The Indian Express after Khanís remarks: ďI think Mr Khan should be walking the talk in his own country instead of commenting on issues that donít concern him. We have been a democracy for 70 years and we know how to look after ourselves.Ē


    https://www.timesnownews.com/amp/ind...uhammad/335464


    Imran Khan should really mind the mess in his own country and not give sermons to others. His frequent invocation of India's name tells us that he is trying to deflect from his own issues.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Yet hardly anh muslim is willing to leave India and settle in Pakistan or BD. Yet muslins from BD are entering India daily in search of a better life. Yet Rohingya muslims dont want to leave India.

    There is a reason why the pak narrative on India isnt taken seriously by most world leaders.
    Minorities face difficulties in all countries it does not mean they have to leave those countries. It is for governments to stop the spread of hate. So Imran Khan is right to point out the uprising of hate for all things realted to Islam in India, and if you listen to the full speech he has acknowledged the same for Pakistan for minorities. He may have outspoken style of speaking but he means welll and is genuinely trying to improve relationships with its neighbours but that must not stop him speaking out for the plight of Kashmiris.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Nasseruddin Shah replies to Imran Khan

    Shah told The Indian Express after Khanís remarks: ďI think Mr Khan should be walking the talk in his own country instead of commenting on issues that donít concern him. We have been a democracy for 70 years and we know how to look after ourselves.Ē


    https://www.timesnownews.com/amp/ind...uhammad/335464


    Imran Khan should really mind the mess in his own country and not give sermons to others. His frequent invocation of India's name tells us that he is trying to deflect from his own issues.
    The newspaper should take Naseer:s advise and stop commenting about Asia Bibi.

  35. #35
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    There is a vast difference between “Modi’s Govetnment” and India as a country and it’s history.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Nasseruddin Shah replies to Imran Khan

    Shah told The Indian Express after Khan’s remarks: “I think Mr Khan should be walking the talk in his own country instead of commenting on issues that don’t concern him. We have been a democracy for 70 years and we know how to look after ourselves.”


    https://www.timesnownews.com/amp/ind...uhammad/335464


    Imran Khan should really mind the mess in his own country and not give sermons to others. His frequent invocation of India's name tells us that he is trying to deflect from his own issues.
    And isn't he the guy that has been forced to cancel a literary festival after the Hindu mobs that he complained about threatened violence. Oh dear
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.times...w/67211417.cms

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    @KB very informative post, your knowledge of modern history is striking.

    I am not well read like you in these matters so have a few questions.

    We have seen that in both sides of Punjab the minority population has been annihilated. But why has this not happened in Bengal, especially the western part? I am unable to come to terms with your statement about 2 way flow/exodus in East India. Hindu population in East Pakistan/Bangladesh has been declining, during some time frames very sharply. But the Muslim population in West Bengal and Assam is rising very quickly. TFR alone can not explain this phenomenon, it does seem that Muslims in East India have always been staying put while minority Hindus (to escape persecution) and Muslims (economic reasons) from Bangladesh are migrating to India. I don't agree with your 2 way exodus theory, unlike Punjab it has been only 1 way in Bengal. Also the West Bengal government has taken much better care of minorities than her eastern counterpart. Would you agree? I can provide the census figures if you want.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madplayer View Post
    Yes there is that. They have a problem with Ahmedis calling themselves muslim and they would discriminate against them until they stop calling themselves muslim. So we have 1 case of discrimination already. Lets see how many more come up.
    Pakistanís constitution by definition is an Islamic republic and doesnít preach to be a secular nation similar to Saudi Arabia and other Muslim countries so Pakistan doesnít need to appeal to any minorities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PakPremi View Post
    Heroes but it is pre planned to raise awareness of plights of Muslims and Kashmiris in India to the wide world.
    Tough job being the torch bearer of Muslim World

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tusker View Post
    Pakistani constitution officially allows only Muslims to become a President.

    Then there is plenty of circumstantial evidence that cuts a sorry state of affairs for minorities in Pakistan. Population of minorities declining from 20% at partition to about 3-4% today.
    Has there been any Muslim pm in India? And does constitution allow it officially?

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post


    Imran Khan should really mind the mess in his own country and not give sermons to others. His frequent invocation of India's name tells us that he is trying to deflect from his own issues.
    You are right. We should also mind our own business and not send everyone who tries to speak truth to Pakistan. We should try to deal with this situation in our own country rather than sending them to Pakistan.


    Tum mujhe bhaga sako aisa ho nahi sakta aur tum mere begair bhaago yeh main hone nahi dunga - Viru

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    Quote Originally Posted by m.shah View Post
    Has there been any Muslim pm in India? And does constitution allow it officially?
    No, there has never been a Muslim PM. But Indian constitution doesn't place any restriction based on religion. Our previous PM Dr Manmohan Singh was a practicing Sikh, also Rajiv Gandhi's father was Parsi. There have been many Muslim CMs however in all corners of India, even in states with 90+% Hindu population.

    There have been 3 Muslim Presidents, latest being Dr APJ Abdul Kalam (2002-2007). Funny thing is for those 5 years we had a Sikh PM, Muslim President, Christian (Italian born Catholic lady) ruling party president presiding over a country with 82% Hindu population.

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    High time Imran Khan learns about minority rights from India: Owaisi

    https://www.aninews.in/news/national...2232110030001/

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by m.shah View Post
    Has there been any Muslim pm in India? And does constitution allow it officially?
    There has been a Sikh PM ( Manmohan Singh - twice ). There has been a Muslim, Sikh Presidents. Yes the Indian constitution allows it.

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    @Tusker and @Napa again showing lack of knowledge:
    This is taken from the Wiki page you linked. Seems like comprehension is also an issue😩

    In the 1951 census, West Pakistan had 1.6% Hindu population, while East Pakistan (modern Bangladesh) had 22.05%.[20] By 1997, the percentage of Hindus remained stable at 1.6% in Pakistan,[21] while it dropped to 10.2% in Bangladesh.[22]

    According to the 1998 Pakistan Census, Hindus constitute about 1.6 percent of the total population of Pakistan and about 6.6% in the Sindh province. The Pakistan Census separates Schedule Castes from the main body of Hindus who make up a further 0.25% of the national population.[23]

    Based on the 1998 Census as well as stabilization of Pakistan's Hindu population since then, Pakistan would, today, have roughly 3 million Hindus. According to the Election Commission of Pakistan, there are 1.49 million Hindu voters in the country. They are mostly concentrated in Sindh where their number comes to over 1.39 million.[24]

  47. #47
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    IK does need to be sorting out issues confronting Pakistan, but he should also answer in a forthright and honest fashion when asked a question.
    Nothing more to see here

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by ILcricket View Post
    Tough job being the torch bearer of Muslim World
    He is not being torch bearer of Muslim world just raising issues of muslims and showing two faces of world when Trump wants to blacklist Pak for treatment of minorities but keeping a blind eye toward India and Israel. Also Kashmiris are not just any old Muslims many in Pakistan have direct family root to Kashmiris. Pak is responsible for sorting out the mess that was created during the partition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swashbuckler View Post
    There have been 3 Muslim Presidents, latest being Dr APJ Abdul Kalam (2002-2007). Funny thing is for those 5 years we had a Sikh PM, Muslim President, Christian (Italian born Catholic lady) ruling party president presiding over a country with 82% Hindu population.
    Just like the days of yore, Mughal and British Empire....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swashbuckler View Post
    No, there has never been a Muslim PM. But Indian constitution doesn't place any restriction based on religion. Our previous PM Dr Manmohan Singh was a practicing Sikh, also Rajiv Gandhi's father was Parsi. There have been many Muslim CMs however in all corners of India, even in states with 90+% Hindu population.

    There have been 3 Muslim Presidents, latest being Dr APJ Abdul Kalam (2002-2007). Funny thing is for those 5 years we had a Sikh PM, Muslim President, Christian (Italian born Catholic lady) ruling party president presiding over a country with 82% Hindu population.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tusker View Post
    There has been a Sikh PM ( Manmohan Singh - twice ). There has been a Muslim, Sikh Presidents. Yes the Indian constitution allows it.
    Fair enough.. Ik should avoid to give statements on every other issue in India. Doesn't look good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iqbal'sh View Post
    @Tusker and @Napa again showing lack of knowledge:
    This is taken from the Wiki page you linked. Seems like comprehension is also an issue��
    As I mentioned in another post in this thread, minority population in today's Pakistan has remained stable. It is a misconception when people present the figures forgetting the geography of 1947, a couple of posters here made this oversight but I have also seen academicians and historians make the same mistake.

    Having said that, Pakistan and Bangladesh were one country till 1971 and power was vested in West Pakistan. Can they shed responsibility for the huge decline in Hindu population as share of total population in East Pakistan from 1947 to 1971? In India minority population grew in every single state (including East Pakistan's neighbors in India) while it was the opposite in East Pakistan, not just a small dip but from 22% to around 14% in 2 decades !!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iqbal'sh View Post
    Just like the days of yore, Mughal and British Empire....
    Not exactly. Mughals were monarchs, British took orders from back home. This is under a democratic setup where people have voted their choices. And by elevating minorities to the highest positions of power, people of India have shown that they are different (for the better) compared to other South Asian neighbors, and even most 3rd world countries around the globe. India still has many significant problems with regards to treatment/well-being of minorities/low castes but doesn't need to bother with advice from countries doing far worse in this regard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swashbuckler View Post
    As I mentioned in another post in this thread, minority population in today's Pakistan has remained stable. It is a misconception when people present the figures forgetting the geography of 1947, a couple of posters here made this oversight but I have also seen academicians and historians make the same mistake.

    Having said that, Pakistan and Bangladesh were one country till 1971 and power was vested in West Pakistan. Can they shed responsibility for the huge decline in Hindu population as share of total population in East Pakistan from 1947 to 1971? In India minority population grew in every single state (including East Pakistan's neighbors in India) while it was the opposite in East Pakistan, not just a small dip but from 22% to around 14% in 2 decades !!!!
    There was huge mismanagement of East Pakistan full stop. Not surprisingly the Hindu minority could choose to cross the border to Hindu majority India, which the demographics bare out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swashbuckler View Post
    Not exactly. Mughals were monarchs, British took orders from back home. This is under a democratic setup where people have voted their choices. And by elevating minorities to the highest positions of power, people of India have shown that they are different (for the better) compared to other South Asian neighbors, and even most 3rd world countries around the globe. India still has many significant problems with regards to treatment/well-being of minorities/low castes but doesn't need to bother with advice from countries doing far worse in this regard.
    My post was tongue in cheek, sorry I Forgot to add a smiley 😜
    Last edited by Iqbal'sh; 23rd December 2018 at 21:16.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PakPremi View Post
    He is not being torch bearer of Muslim world just raising issues of muslims and showing two faces of world when Trump wants to blacklist Pak for treatment of minorities but keeping a blind eye toward India and Israel. Also Kashmiris are not just any old Muslims many in Pakistan have direct family root to Kashmiris. Pak is responsible for sorting out the mess that was created during the partition.
    Does Pakistan feel the same about Bangladesh ?

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    Last edited by Abdullah719; 23rd December 2018 at 22:01.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ILcricket View Post

    ty Abdullah

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swashbuckler View Post
    @KB very informative post, your knowledge of modern history is striking.

    I am not well read like you in these matters so have a few questions.

    We have seen that in both sides of Punjab the minority population has been annihilated. But why has this not happened in Bengal, especially the western part? I am unable to come to terms with your statement about 2 way flow/exodus in East India. Hindu population in East Pakistan/Bangladesh has been declining, during some time frames very sharply. But the Muslim population in West Bengal and Assam is rising very quickly. TFR alone can not explain this phenomenon, it does seem that Muslims in East India have always been staying put while minority Hindus (to escape persecution) and Muslims (economic reasons) from Bangladesh are migrating to India. I don't agree with your 2 way exodus theory, unlike Punjab it has been only 1 way in Bengal. Also the West Bengal government has taken much better care of minorities than her eastern counterpart. Would you agree? I can provide the census figures if you want.
    In Punjab, the intensity and brutality of violence in 1947 led both states making the decision to effectively exchange populations. Both states assisted and regulated the movements. Hence why the minority populations were largely emptied from both sides of Punjab. In Bengal, despite violence in Calcutta and Noakhali in the prior year, 1946, when Punjab was ablaze in 1947, Bengal was relatively peaceful at this time. Both states consistently adopted the stance to discourage migration in Bengal. Hence significant number of minorities remained on both sides of the border in Bengal. Why was violence more intense in Punjab in 1947? The presence of demobilised soldiers in Punjab is certainly likely to have contributed to the intensity of violence. The existence of a sizeable third community - the Sikhs - also complicated the process of a division of territory which satisfied all sides. The role of the princely ruled areas within Punjab was another complicating factor and there is evidence that some princely rulers encouraged violence.

    As to whether the flow within Bengal in the period 1947 to 1971 was one way or two way, the evidence indicates the latter. Refer to the works of historians, Joya Chatterji (The Spoils of Partition) Haimanti Roy (Partitioned Lives) and Willem Van Schendel (Bengal Borderlands and A History of Bangladesh).

    Van Schendel summarises the waves succinctly in the following words:

    “The two new states were quite unable to monitor the migrants and often manipulated the figures for political ends. By early 1948, when the flows reduced, officials guesstimated that about 800,000 people from India had migrated to East Pakistan and about a million people from East Pakistan were living in India. After these initial exchanges, cross-border migration did not come to an end, however. It continued in a boom-and-slump pattern over the years, fluctuating in response to political events such as India’s 1949 invasion of Hyderabad (a region in the southern subcontinent that was poised to join Pakistan) and widespread communal rioting in both parts of Bengal in 1950. A third upsurge occurred in 1952 just before a passport and visa system was imposed. Up to then travel between India and East Pakistan had been relatively easy, with considerable return migration after each exodus. The remaining years of the 1950s saw little cross-border migration but it shot up again in 1961–5 after riots occurred in both parts of Bengal. Muslims entering East Pakistan came mostly from neighbouring regions: West Bengal, Assam, Tripura and Bihar, but also from Uttar Pradesh in north India.”

    On the last question as to whether West Bengal treated its minority communities better than East Bengal, I find the premise of the question somewhat troubling. Too often this way of thinking leads to an effort to minimise the actions of the country to which they have allegiance to. In both India and Pakistan minorities have frequently been treated in an appalling fashion and faced discrimination. That the lives of Hindus were made very difficult in East Bengal in the 1950s and 1960s is well documented, but so too is the difficulties that Muslims encountered in West Bengal - refer to chapter 4 of Joya Chatterji’s The Spoils of Partition and Haimanti Roy’s Partitioned Lives. I am not interested in the question of 'who is better' as neither has been good enough. There is no solace to be sought in the idea that the record of the other is worse.

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    In the Islamic Republic of Pakistan only a Muslim can be PM or President. Pak PM should not comment on Indian minorities where as we don't need to hear what our constitution says from Owaisi. Indian Muslim's have much, much more to worry about.


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

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    Imran should oppose friend China for oppression of Uyghurs. He hasn't uttered a word regarding this matter. Stop fake caring

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iqbal'sh View Post
    @Tusker and @Napa again showing lack of knowledge:
    This is taken from the Wiki page you linked. Seems like comprehension is also an issue��
    The drop in the percentage of Hindus in West Pakistan happened in the years preceding 1951.

    The relevant material from the Wiki articles I linked to includes:

    The rise of Taliban insurgency in Pakistan has been an influential and increasing factor in the persecution of and discrimination against religious minorities in Pakistan, such as Hindus, Christians, Sikhs, and other minorities. Hindu minorities living under the influence of the Taliban in Swat, Pakistan, were forced to wear red headgear such as turbans as a symbol of dhimmi.[241] In July 2010, around 60 members of the minority Hindus in Karachi were attacked and ethnically cleansed following an incident when a Hindu youth drank from a water tap near an Islamic mosque.[245][246] In January 2014, in an attack on a temple, the guard was gunned down.[237]

    ...

    Many Hindu girls living in Pakistan are kidnapped, forcibly converted and married to Muslims.[254]According to the Pakistan Hindu Council, religious persecution especially forced conversions remain the foremost reason for migration of Hindus from Pakistan.Religious institutions like Bharchundi Sharif and Sarhandi Pir support forced conversions and are known to have support and protection of ruling political parties of Sindh[255].According to the National Commission of Justice and Peace and the Pakistan Hindu Council (PHC) around 1000 Christian and Hindu minority women are converted to Islam and then forcibly married off to their abductors or rapists. This practice is being reported increasingly in the districts of Tharparkar, Umerkot and Mirpur Khas in Sindh. [256]According to another report from the Movement for Solidarity and Peace, about 1,000 non-Muslim girls are converted to Islam each year in Pakistan.[257] According to the Amarnath Motumal, the vice chairperson of the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan,every month, an estimated 20 or more Hindu girls are abducted and converted, although exact figures are impossible to gather. [258]In 2014 alone, 265 legal cases of forced conversion were reported mostly involving Hindu girls.[259]

    In 2010 also, 57 Hindus were forced to convert by their employer as his sales dropped after Muslims started boycotting his eatable items as they were prepared by Hindus. Since the impoverished Hindus had no other way to earn and needed to keep the job to survive, hence they converted.[260]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    The drop in the percentage of Hindus in West Pakistan happened in the years preceding 1951.

    The relevant material from the Wiki articles I linked to includes:
    The materials you linked donít explain a drop from 20% to 3-4%. That was the point of the discussion and the post you responded to. For confirmation of this look again at the post above. As mentioned previously youíre severely lacking comprehension skills.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iqbal'sh View Post
    The materials you linked don’t explain a drop from 20% to 3-4%. That was the point of the discussion and the post you responded to. For confirmation of this look again at the post above. As mentioned previously you’re severely lacking comprehension skills.
    The very best universities in the world found no problems with my comprehension

    I was responding to the topic of the thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madplayer View Post
    Interesting. How does Pakistan's constitution officially discriminate against minorities?
    Are you kidding?

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    So hopefully it will no more.be Islamic Republic of Pakistan..good.on IK progressive leader after all.

    Where are those posters that used to say India doesn't matter to leaders of Pak, IK has made sure that it does with his one statement a week on India.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhaag Viru Bhaag View Post
    You are right. We should also mind our own business and not send everyone who tries to speak truth to Pakistan. We should try to deal with this situation in our own country rather than sending them to Pakistan.
    You are right as well, but IK has been constantly speaking about India in last 2 months, there are multiple threads on it on the same.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    The very best universities in the world found no problems with my comprehension

    I was responding to the topic of the thread.
    Iím so happy for you, I bet youíre modest as well.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Nasseruddin Shah replies to Imran Khan

    Shah told The Indian Express after Khanís remarks: ďI think Mr Khan should be walking the talk in his own country instead of commenting on issues that donít concern him. We have been a democracy for 70 years and we know how to look after ourselves.Ē


    https://www.timesnownews.com/amp/ind...uhammad/335464


    Imran Khan should really mind the mess in his own country and not give sermons to others. His frequent invocation of India's name tells us that he is trying to deflect from his own issues.
    Imran can say what he likes and if it bothers Indians, its their problem.


    Hindu extremists have been elected into office and since then their hate speech has fuelled abuse against minorities. Minorities suffer to some extent in every nation but India is unique as the government openly leads the way.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

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    So these radicalized extremists Hindus are all for praising Now because he spoke against Imran Khan?

    Does that mean he isnít being asked to go to Pakistan?

    Right wing extremists Hindu nationalists are the funniest species to exist in India.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    Well, if a perceived treatment of minorities in India makes life good for Ahmedis / Jews / Shias / Sikhs / Hindus / Others in Pakistan, good for them. One needn't be linked to the other in a perfect world, but at this point either country should take what comes.
    haha. Given the state of the sub continent if this does happen, I will take it as a positive.

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    A stupid statement by IK especially since law is designed to discriminate based on faith. He should not have commented I mean an ahmedi resigned /asked to as the general population wqs not happt due to his faith. I guess the difference in India and Pakistan is one is meant to be a secular democracy and therefore no one of any faith should feel threatened in their home country.

    IK should have refrained commenting as even naseerudin shah has said lool at your internal matters before commenting

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    Is this a parody statement or was IK being serious.

    How do you keep a straight face and say that after firing Atif Mian on religious grounds?

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    Ok. Make it happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    And isn't he the guy that has been forced to cancel a literary festival after the Hindu mobs that he complained about threatened violence. Oh dear
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.times...w/67211417.cms
    So? Did he ask Imran Khan for help?

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    Imran can say what he likes and if it bothers Indians, its their problem.


    Hindu extremists have been elected into office and since then their hate speech has fuelled abuse against minorities. Minorities suffer to some extent in every nation but India is unique as the government openly leads the way.
    India is not Imran Khan's to comment neither is Naseerudin shah's personal life.

    A PM of a country should know the minimum diplomacy and decency to know that another country's matter is not for him to poke his nose into.

    Who India elects is not Pakistan's concern. No country in the world is answerable to Pakistan for its internal issues. Seems you guys have a problem understanding this.

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    Itís only a good thing so donít see why people are getting their lungis in a twist

    If Imran Khan is aiming to improve Pakistanís treatment of minorities and acknowledging implicitly that it leaves much to be desired right now itís only a good thing

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slog View Post
    It’s only a good thing so don’t see why people are getting their lungis in a twist

    If Imran Khan is aiming to improve Pakistan’s treatment of minorities and acknowledging implicitly that it leaves much to be desired right now it’s only a good thing
    Agreed. There seems to be a plan behind his statements. If he had talked about minority rights in isolation, not many would have come on board, but by linking it to the treatment of minorities in india, he would have more people willing to support him, if only driven by oneupmanship and showing up india's claim of being a better country for minorities.

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    You folks should cut poor Imran some slack. I don't think he's very intelligent in these matters given his past antics/statements .

    He comes across as really dim most of the times.


    Tazimi Sirdar

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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    India is not Imran Khan's to comment neither is Naseerudin shah's personal life.

    A PM of a country should know the minimum diplomacy and decency to know that another country's matter is not for him to poke his nose into.

    Who India elects is not Pakistan's concern. No country in the world is answerable to Pakistan for its internal issues. Seems you guys have a problem understanding this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slog View Post
    It’s only a good thing so don’t see why people are getting their lungis in a twist

    If Imran Khan is aiming to improve Pakistan’s treatment of minorities and acknowledging implicitly that it leaves much to be desired right now it’s only a good thing
    I can only assume that IK has fixed all of Pakistan's problems. The economy is booming, the forex reserves are the envy of the other South Asian countries, peace has broken out, and foreign investors are falling over each other to invest in Pakistan. Having fixed his own country, he now has the time to worry about what is happening in India.

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    This is the kind of childish retort you get on a talk show with indian and pakistani panelists, not what you expect from the head of a state.
    I am not sure if Imran is mature enough to govern his country. Maybe he should delegate responsibility to his more competent aides.

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