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  1. #1
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    "Our bowlers were bowling at 130kph, their bowlers were bowling at 145kph" : Sarfaraz Ahmed

    Sarfaraz Ahmed at a presser:

    "If you talk about our bowlers and their bowlers, there was a big difference and our bowlers are not upto the mark"

    "Our bowlers are bowling at average speed of 130 kph whilst their bowlers were bowling at 145 kph, if you bowl with lack of pace you will not get wickets"

    "I dont know whats going on there [speaking about speeds] but previously it has happened like that when I came in 2013 - we had the same problem - at that time we had Irfan, Umar Gul and Tanvir Ahmed - they also had same problem but I dont know [pointing outside] whats happening in here in Cape Town"

    "For me they are fitter than us"

    "For me as a team we are not playing well, we were thinking that our bowling was far better based on Centurion but we didnt take wickets here and if we had done that, we would have restricted them to 250-300 runs and it would have been a different story"

    "Credit goes to SA, they know how to play in SA. Their bowlers bowled really well and didn't give us any bad balls, our batsmen played some quality shots. They batted well too but we gave too many loose balls"

    "We lacked discipline in batting but whenever Asian team goes away, they have problems but the way our batsmen showed their character in the 2nd innings, that's how you play Test cricket. We're getting better day by day"

    "For the last Test, we need to bat like we did in the 2nd inns, we have nothing to lose. We need to be positive. But we also have to take 20 wickets otherwise we can't win. India took 20 wickets in Johannesburg in their win. Fakhar batted at 6 because he likes to play shots, he was facing some problems with the new ball and Shan Masood was batting really well so we thought Fakhar might feel better at #6"


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  2. #2
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    And whose fault is that exactly? They have 4 fast bowlers to share the workload and you on the other hand decided to play a spinner who barely even bowled.

    And our bowlers were never that quick to begin with. Amir, Hassan and Shaheen are all 5 kph slower on average than Steyn, Rabada and Olivier. The exaggerated difference is because they have had to bowl 2-3 times as many overs.

  3. #3
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    The elephant in the room. Graeme Smith also rightly pointed out. And I won't put it down to "lack of rest" as even in their first spells these guys were considerably slower than their counterparts.

    Putting it down to lack of rest or lack of 5th bowling partner etc. would be ignoring the issue in hand. Fresh bowlers bowling at 125kph-135kph. That's Bangladesh level.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by BreadPakoda View Post
    The elephant in the room. Graeme Smith also rightly pointed out. And I won't put it down to "lack of rest" as even in their first spells these guys were considerably slower than their counterparts.

    Putting it down to lack of rest or lack of 5th bowling partner etc. would be ignoring the issue in hand. Fresh bowlers bowling at 125kph-135kph. That's Bangladesh level.
    Zimbabwe pacers are slower. Except maybe Jarvis.

  5. #5
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    Sarfu sounds more confident now that he has a 50 to remind people of.

  6. #6
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    How times change. Pakistanis have to contend with trundlers and Indians have one of the quickest bowling line up.

  7. #7
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    You can hate the guy for stating facts because he is a failure himself but how is it acceptable to have a trundlers bowling attack in this day and age?


    "The Indian bowling attack is as devastating as the Teletubbies"- Sir Ian Botham

  8. #8
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    Blunder from Mickey and Sarfraz to select Yasir
    Hassan should have been in
    Abbas always bowls on that speed and is successful
    But you expect Shaheen and Amir to be more quick


    New Era of Team Pakistan

  9. #9
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    New excuses from the captain.

    1st its the tail doesnt score any runs...
    Then its batsmen fail in 2nd inns....

    Now its bowlers not quick enough...
    Bowlers didnt bowl well..

    Then finally we need to bat like we did 2nd inns? One big partnership followed by a collapse? Hows that any better than before?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by JattMaula View Post
    Zimbabwe pacers are slower. Except maybe Jarvis.
    Afghans & Irish pacers as well. May be Srilanka also.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asif321 View Post
    Blunder from Mickey and Sarfraz to select Yasir
    Hassan should have been in
    Abbas always bowls on that speed and is successful
    But you expect Shaheen and Amir to be more quick
    Is he complaining about not having a 4th seamer? He is complaining that he doesn’t have seamers that could actually hurry the batsman! How would Hassan solve that issue himself? He’s not a 145kph bowler!

    Why do you think Sarfaraz is so poor himself? He’s not used to facing genuine pace bowlers in his training sessions with Pakistan and all of a sudden you have Rabada, Steyn and Olivier thunderbolting them in at his pads!


    "The Indian bowling attack is as devastating as the Teletubbies"- Sir Ian Botham

  12. #12
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    Sarfaraz genuinely is such a failure against pace! Why does he not back his keeping skills to stand up to the stumps when Shan Masood out of all people is bowling?


    "The Indian bowling attack is as devastating as the Teletubbies"- Sir Ian Botham

  13. #13
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    He is just stated a fact, our bowlers are so poor. Indian bowlers would smashed these South African batsmen(minus AB). It's an average batting line up just like Pakistan.

  14. #14
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    If pace is what you wanted, you should have played Hasan who bowled upto 90 mph and has good average speed. He's also your best new ball bowler after Abbas. Why drop him?


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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fahdi View Post
    And whose fault is that exactly? They have 4 fast bowlers to share the workload and you on the other hand decided to play a spinner who barely even bowled.

    And our bowlers were never that quick to begin with. Amir, Hassan and Shaheen are all 5 kph slower on average than Steyn, Rabada and Olivier. The exaggerated difference is because they have had to bowl 2-3 times as many overs.

    10 kph slower than Steyn, Rabada and Olivier

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by shah_1 View Post
    He is just stated a fact, our bowlers are so poor. Indian bowlers would smashed these South African batsmen(minus AB). It's an average batting line up just like Pakistan.
    has*

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikhil_cric View Post
    If pace is what you wanted, you should have played Hasan who bowled upto 90 mph and has good average speed. He's also your best new ball bowler after Abbas. Why drop him?
    That’s a false statement. Hassan is not a 90mph! He is a 84-87mph guy who looks quicker because he skids it through a lot more.


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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rana View Post
    Is he complaining about not having a 4th seamer? He is complaining that he doesn’t have seamers that could actually hurry the batsman! How would Hassan solve that issue himself? He’s not a 145kph bowler!

    Why do you think Sarfaraz is so poor himself? He’s not used to facing genuine pace bowlers in his training sessions with Pakistan and all of a sudden you have Rabada, Steyn and Olivier thunderbolting them in at his pads!
    He can’t complain becuase it’s his decision and he knows it was a crap decision


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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fahdi View Post
    And whose fault is that exactly? They have 4 fast bowlers to share the workload and you on the other hand decided to play a spinner who barely even bowled.

    And our bowlers were never that quick to begin with. Amir, Hassan and Shaheen are all 5 kph slower on average than Steyn, Rabada and Olivier. The exaggerated difference is because they have had to bowl 2-3 times as many overs.
    What are you on about? It's 10 kph.

    Fact is that our bowler are nothing compared to their bowlers. Bring Hassn Ali instead of Yasir Shah, and it will not make any difference.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikhil_cric View Post
    If pace is what you wanted, you should have played Hasan who bowled upto 90 mph and has good average speed. He's also your best new ball bowler after Abbas. Why drop him?

    What was Hasan's average speed in last Test ?

    83 84 mph in 1st innings ?

    82 83 mph in 2nd innings ?


    Hardly 5-8 deliveries above 140 kph. That's it



    Abbas was coming back from shoulder injury hence he needs some match time before he gets back to his strength ie bowling in similar areas over and over again. That's his strength. That was strength of Pollock, Asif, Mcgrath, Collymore etc and that is strength of Philander.


    Clearly Sarfraz does not require Abbas to bowl at 145 kph neither he has the capacity. It was Amir & Shaheen who were bowling at 128 - 135 kph mostly low 130's. This is a concern.

  21. #21
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    Playing a spinner will have been a decision that Sarfaraz was surely involved in.



  22. #22
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    They were slow because they were rotating 3 quicks while South Africa was rotating 4.

    Abbas is slow anyway. But overuse without long enough breaks meant that Amir bowled at 133 instead of 138 and SSA bowled at 135 instead of 145.

    You always need four quicks in Australia and South Africa. It’s why I think Australia dropped the wrong Marsh.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by TalentSpotterPk View Post
    What was Hasan's average speed in last Test ?

    83 84 mph in 1st innings ?

    82 83 mph in 2nd innings ?


    Hardly 5-8 deliveries above 140 kph. That's it



    Abbas was coming back from shoulder injury hence he needs some match time before he gets back to his strength ie bowling in similar areas over and over again. That's his strength. That was strength of Pollock, Asif, Mcgrath, Collymore etc and that is strength of Philander.


    Clearly Sarfraz does not require Abbas to bowl at 145 kph neither he has the capacity. It was Amir & Shaheen who were bowling at 128 - 135 kph mostly low 130's. This is a concern.
    Abbass needs to develop a good outswinger otherwise he will struggle

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rana View Post
    That’s a false statement. Hassan is not a 90mph! He is a 84-87mph guy who looks quicker because he skids it through a lot more.
    His average speed is around 138 kph and he can clock up to 145 kph. That is atleast 5 kph quicker than both Aamir and Shaheen have bowled this test. Whats more, he's the fittest and his speeds don't drop in subsequent spells, later tests etc. If sarfraz thinks lack of pace was the difference, why drop your quickest bowler ? Doesn't sound logical to me.


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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    They were slow because they were rotating 3 quicks while South Africa was rotating 4.

    Abbas is slow anyway. But overuse without long enough breaks meant that Amir bowled at 133 instead of 138 and SSA bowled at 135 instead of 145.

    You always need four quicks in Australia and South Africa. It’s why I think Australia dropped the wrong Marsh.

    It was a matter of capacity. Even if they were 5 Amir & Shaheen's pace would have been same.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by TalentSpotterPk View Post
    What was Hasan's average speed in last Test ?

    83 84 mph in 1st innings ?

    82 83 mph in 2nd innings ?


    Hardly 5-8 deliveries above 140 kph. That's it



    Abbas was coming back from shoulder injury hence he needs some match time before he gets back to his strength ie bowling in similar areas over and over again. That's his strength. That was strength of Pollock, Asif, Mcgrath, Collymore etc and that is strength of Philander.


    Clearly Sarfraz does not require Abbas to bowl at 145 kph neither he has the capacity. It was Amir & Shaheen who were bowling at 128 - 135 kph mostly low 130's. This is a concern.
    Avg. pace of Hasan is always around 137-138 kph I think. Anyway the point is that currently he's quicker than both aamir and Shaheen and certainly quicker than Abbas.


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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by shah_1 View Post
    Abbass needs to develop a good outswinger otherwise he will struggle
    A bouncer too as the batsman can cover Abbas' swing by standing outside the crease and a bouncer can send them back. KP and Smith were pulling their hair out repeating this.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by TalentSpotterPk View Post
    It was a matter of capacity. Even if they were 5 Amir & Shaheen's pace would have been same.
    It's a harsh truth.

    Nothing to do with 3 or 4 fast bowlers

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by TalentSpotterPk View Post
    10 kph slower than Steyn, Rabada and Olivier
    Sarfu feels the gap was 15kph as per quote from OP, although I think he is exaggerating here.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    They were slow because they were rotating 3 quicks while South Africa was rotating 4.

    Abbas is slow anyway. But overuse without long enough breaks meant that Amir bowled at 133 instead of 138 and SSA bowled at 135 instead of 145.

    You always need four quicks in Australia and South Africa. It’s why I think Australia dropped the wrong Marsh.
    Yeah as if a 4th seamer would have Shaheen and Amir bowling at 140kmh?

    No chance, these guys are not quick bowlers either way.


    "The Indian bowling attack is as devastating as the Teletubbies"- Sir Ian Botham

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    Basically batting sucks and bowling is too slow so we are bound to lose.


    And I get so high.. And I just can't feel it....

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by shah_1 View Post
    Abbass needs to develop a good outswinger otherwise he will struggle

    He is basically a seamer. We have seen him jag the ball back into left hand batsmen. Yes seaming away against RHB is not his strength but he has the ability to straighten deliveries from outside off and get outside edges.



    In this match He wasn't able to get that sharp seam movement, pace in last 3 Tests he has played (including 2 where he had shoulder niggle) has dipped 3-4 kph and he wasn't able to land majority of his deliveries in same areas which is his strength hence he was giving 1 or 2 boundary balls each over or every second over which is not his trait.


    Hope he will be in better rhythm in next match and will bowl at nagging lengths more consistently (like past).

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by TalentSpotterPk View Post
    It was a matter of capacity. Even if they were 5 Amir & Shaheen's pace would have been same.
    Amir, maybe.

    SSA no - he should have been bowled in shorter spells.

    Mickey Arthur was the South Africa coach who used a 4 Fast Bowler attack in Pakistan - and won - and who dropped Shaun Pollock forever for bowling slower than 140K.

    Imran Khan wrote that his mid-1970’s progress came when he realised that at 140K a bowler is much harder to face than at 130K. And so he built up his speed.

    Even Sri Lanka wouldn’t tour South Africa with 4 medium pacers plus an all-rounder in the squad.

    This squad should have included the height of the in-form Ehsan Adil and the pace of Wahab Riaz.

    As soon as Abbas got injured there was no capacity to cover him.

  34. #34
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    This is ridiculous public flogging from Sarfaraz. He has lost it completely.
    I wonder how will Aamir Abbas Shaheen will feel when they see their captain thinks they are not good enough.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Amir, maybe.

    SSA no - he should have been bowled in shorter spells.

    Mickey Arthur was the South Africa coach who used a 4 Fast Bowler attack in Pakistan - and won - and who dropped Shaun Pollock forever for bowling slower than 140K.

    Imran Khan wrote that his mid-1970’s progress came when he realised that at 140K a bowler is much harder to face than at 130K. And so he built up his speed.

    Even Sri Lanka wouldn’t tour South Africa with 4 medium pacers plus an all-rounder in the squad.

    This squad should have included the height of the in-form Ehsan Adil and the pace of Wahab Riaz.

    As soon as Abbas got injured there was no capacity to cover him.
    Wahab Riaz? Lmao. That guy is worse than Umesh Yadav. And we don't want Umesh Yadav as even our 5th pacer. You're scrapping the barrel here.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by BreadPakoda View Post
    Wahab Riaz? Lmao. That guy is worse than Umesh Yadav. And we don't want Umesh Yadav as even our 5th pacer. You're scrapping the barrel here.
    If Sarfraz wants a Pakistani to be bowling 145K, then unfortunately Wahab Riaz and (lol) Mohammad Sami are his only options.

  37. #37
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    "Our bowlers were bowling at 130kph, their bowlers were bowling at 145kph"

    Hahaha. This is the English equivalent of "bhai, woh baray bachay lay kar aaye thay".

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Amir, maybe.

    SSA no - he should have been bowled in shorter spells.

    Mickey Arthur was the South Africa coach who used a 4 Fast Bowler attack in Pakistan - and won - and who dropped Shaun Pollock forever for bowling slower than 140K.

    Imran Khan wrote that his mid-1970’s progress came when he realised that at 140K a bowler is much harder to face than at 130K. And so he built up his speed.

    Even Sri Lanka wouldn’t tour South Africa with 4 medium pacers plus an all-rounder in the squad.

    This squad should have included the height of the in-form Ehsan Adil and the pace of Wahab Riaz.

    As soon as Abbas got injured there was no capacity to cover him.
    Shaheen must have been preserving energy on 1st afternoon when PAK was due to bowl 29 overs. He must have known that SAF will bat 125 overs and he needs to preserve energy, because despite a nights break coming in an hour, I saw him bowling 127K thunder bolts in his 2nd spell.

    Height issue is definitely agreed & that was my point every time before advocating for Shaheen (& Arshad also, at least for nets) but this was needed as well - next time some PAK posters here will think twice before taunting the height of some other teams with their 5’10” average height, 125km average pace battery.

    Just because they are tall, doesn’t mean Wahab or Adil or Sohail would be successful here - I actually belive each of them would have returned at 20-2-91-1 or worse figure, even on these wickets. And that guy Adil - he is spanked like net bowlers by PAK domestic hacks on some atrocious wickets; and you think he is in form for SAF!!

    Why clutching straw? The empire is collapsing at free fall and lets start to accept that - that’s the first step for redemption. False bravado & hypothetical analysis won’t help much - height isn’t the only key, otherwise 5’10” Styen and probably 5’9” Phillander won’t have such figures in SAF.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by TalentSpotterPk View Post
    10 kph slower than Steyn, Rabada and Olivier
    Quote Originally Posted by shah_1 View Post
    What are you on about? It's 10 kph.

    Fact is that our bowler are nothing compared to their bowlers. Bring Hassn Ali instead of Yasir Shah, and it will not make any difference.
    I wasn't being exact here but the difference is probably around 6-7. It's not like they are bowling 145 every ball. Average speed would be around 141-142. With a shared workload and being properly rested the attack Amir, Hassan and Shaheen should average around 135-136 kph. A difference of 6-7 in average is pretty big, the quicker deliveries are usually 4-6 kph higher than that so that means their quicker deliveries would be around the 147 mark, which I believe was the case this match, and ours would be 141-142.
    @shah_1 Yes the attack of Rabada, Steyn and Philander is obviously far superior but that doesn't mean you don't play the right competition, only thing that does is make our bowling worse. Fact is that yes they are slower than SA but they couldn't even bowl at their fastest because of the workload.

  40. #40
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    Too many excuses for why fast medium bowlers are not bowling fast. We will see how fast they bowl when Faheem inevitably replaces Yasir in the third Test.

    The excuse at that time would be that the bowlers are tired after being over-bowled.

  41. #41
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    It's a cause for concern on these pitches, I don't think you need 3 but you need 1 out and out quick. In asia doesn't matter.

    I don't think we have any really fast bowlers. Our fastest are still probably Riaz and Sami even though they're on the older side. Ideally it'd be good to have a fast bowler who only plays tests, so that he can bowl his heart out each test game rather than be afraid of injuring himself for LOI.

    But I agree with others I don't think it's simply they are all bowling slower because lack of rest, you'd get the same speeds out with 4 fast bowlers.

    Amir is clearly capable of turning it up at times, but I think he struggles to bowl at those speeds for long periods of time now.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by shariqnoor View Post
    "Our bowlers were bowling at 130kph, their bowlers were bowling at 145kph"

    Hahaha. This is the English equivalent of "bhai, woh baray bachay lay kar aaye thay".

    Hahahaha. Good one Shariq.

    Well said.

  43. #43
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    For those suggesting Wahab Riaz, he was considerably down on pace in the last test he played and was wayward as ever. Don't think he can bowl that quick anymore.


    'There's a lady who's sure all that glitters is gold'

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    Wahab is finished. There are no genuine speed merchants in Pakistan, and the “ikka dukka” are not good enough for international cricket.

    We need to accept the reality and not hide behind various excuses such as bowling combination etc.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Wahab is finished. There are no genuine speed merchants in Pakistan, and the “ikka dukka” are not good enough for international cricket.

    We need to accept the reality and not hide behind various excuses such as bowling combination etc.
    Haris rauf clocked 148 and Musa is pretty quick too. You just need to find them. You can definitely find frontline bowlers who are faster than the ones who struggle to hit 130 kph after a few overs.


    'There's a lady who's sure all that glitters is gold'

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikhil_cric View Post
    Haris rauf clocked 148 and Musa is pretty quick too. You just need to find them. You can definitely find frontline bowlers who are faster than the ones who struggle to hit 130 kph after a few overs.
    There is no guarantee that they will be good enough to play international cricket. Speed is useless if you don’t have intelligence and control.

    Wahab was a genuine fast bowler for the bulk of his career, but he has always been mediocre.

    Besides, bowling quick in trials and other side matches is not the same as bowling quick in Tests.

  47. #47
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    For once, I agree with Sarfaraz - even though batting failures are a bigger problem.

    I feel bowling coaches are focused on tight/length bowling - while in older time, it was to go out and blow the opposition away. You could say Amir/Shaheen can bowl 8-10 clicks faster but they are scared - like their batting is scared. All in the mind.

    Pakistan's bowling is a sad replica of itself.

    I may also add, since India keeps coming up - India pace bowling is very very high quality - and committed. I am sure Kohli gives them free rein. However, Indian bowling is not fast - it's fast medium. Fast bowling is a different animal.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikhil_cric View Post
    Haris rauf clocked 148 and Musa is pretty quick too. You just need to find them. You can definitely find frontline bowlers who are faster than the ones who struggle to hit 130 kph after a few overs.
    Starc's average pace was 147 kph in the series against India.

    You need skills and pace. If you haven't got the pace, at least be skillfull enough which our bowlers lack clearly.

  49. #49
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    So blaming the seam bowlers when the batting in test matches has been abysmal for 4 out of the 5 last test matches?

    Safaraz knows the next test will be his last as captain so he it chatting more nonsense than normal.

  50. #50
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    Why dont Pakistani fans support their captains. No matter who is the captain, everyone will be against him.

    Players do make mistakes and fans/selection committee should give long rope and more chances.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by shah_1 View Post
    Starc's average pace was 147 kph in the series against India.

    You need skills and pace. If you haven't got the pace, at least be skillfull enough which our bowlers lack clearly.
    I highly doubt it was 147 kph average pace over 4 tests!! Even if it was, he's an exception who keeps his speeds up no matter what. I think Abbas/hasan/aamir/Shaheen are a very skilled attack. And they actually have new ball skills and don't just wait for the old ball to scuff up. We saw the first 3 in England tests where they outbowled english seamers and used seam and swing to great effect. The problem is only the pace. Its alright in England where the conditions/pitches and the Dukes ball ensure lateral movement throughout the day. But in places like SA and OZ with the kookaburra it won't do that in all sessions. If these same bowlers could bowl consistent good lengths at 135-140 kph coupled wit the odd quicker bumper that would be more than good enough to be effective. These guys were bowling 127-134 kph most of the time which is too slow!


    'There's a lady who's sure all that glitters is gold'

  52. #52
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    And you say this in media , how tactless is sarfraz?


    It is either a heartache or a headache ..Argh relationships.

  53. #53
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    Another reason for the 5 man attack right there.
    I hope this doesn't deflect of the disgraceful batting from our seniors which putnus behind after 3 innings of the series


    If you always do what you have always done, you will always get what you always got #improve

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by JibranAnsari View Post
    And you say this in media , how tactless is sarfraz?
    Lol. True. Expect more bouncers from SA next game.

  55. #55
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    So blaming the seam bowlers when the batting in test matches has been abysmal for 4 out of the 5 last test matches?

    Safaraz knows the next test will be his last as captain so he is chatting more nonsense than normal.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Too many excuses for why fast medium bowlers are not bowling fast. We will see how fast they bowl when Faheem inevitably replaces Yasir in the third Test.

    The excuse at that time would be that the bowlers are tired after being over-bowled.
    And shadab should replace imam or fakhar. Then we are good to go.
    You need a spinner. Even the saffers all fast bowling attack would struggle if we kept them out there for a day. Even yesterday was only 70 overs. I was praying that shan partnership extended for another hour. Then even they would have had to dig deep


    If you always do what you have always done, you will always get what you always got #improve

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikhil_cric View Post
    I highly doubt it was 147 kph average pace over 4 tests!! Even if it was, he's an exception who keeps his speeds up no matter what. I think Abbas/hasan/aamir/Shaheen are a very skilled attack. And they actually have new ball skills and don't just wait for the old ball to scuff up. We saw the first 3 in England tests where they outbowled english seamers and used seam and swing to great effect. The problem is only the pace. Its alright in England where the conditions/pitches and the Dukes ball ensure lateral movement throughout the day. But in places like SA and OZ with the kookaburra it won't do that in all sessions. If these same bowlers could bowl consistent good lengths at 135-140 kph coupled wit the odd quicker bumper that would be more than good enough to be effective. These guys were bowling 127-134 kph most of the time which is too slow!
    That's what cricinfo showed in an article about his decline
    His average speed in this series so far stands at 147.54kpm

    Amir is not skillful, he hardly swings the ball, balls mostly cross seam He rubbish against right handers and just decent against left handers.

    Shaheen isn't ready for test cricket, he clearly needs more time.

  58. #58
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    It's clear that our fast bowlers were just not rested well enough. Although I understand that Shaheen was played in the UAE test in a bid to equip him with some form of International experience before the tour to South Africa, but Hasan should've been rested.

    I can't believe people think our bowlers just don't posses the pace. I mean, the same Hasan clocked 147 (the CdG dismissal irrc) in one of his spells on the non-conducive wickets of UAE recently and it's already a well-known fact that Amir purposely cuts his speed down in Tests and to a lesser extent in ODIs. When he goes full throttle, he can breach the 145 barrier (seen it in the T20s and T10s). Shaheen is probably the paciest of the lot, but looks to be carrying a niggle. He too, has bowled quite a few 145+ bowls in what little we have seen of him in the LOIs. All of a sudden, none of them can barely go past 133-135 on a regular basis. Can't be anything apart from inadequate rest.

    This just raises a few concerns that PCB will have to address and address seriously. The rotation policy of the fast bowlers, and maybe a better coaching and training staff. We see this time and again: our bowlers start clicking into some lethal rhythm, our management doesn't give them their due rest and makes them play every game, the bowlers' knees or lower-backs eventually give out and they have to start from square one. Saw it with Junaid, Shinwari, Rumman, Hasan, and now Shaheen. I think, India's recent bowling surge is a good example that highlights the importance of rest. Their bowlers who bowl in all formats (Bumrah and occasionally B.Kumar) are always adequately rested well enough. Don't think Bumrah has even played a single test in India. Rightly preserved for the tests where his bowling will actually be the chief threat.

  59. #59
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    Publicly embarrassing your bowlers when everyone one knows we lost whe we could not even cross 200 on this 300+ pitch. List of excuses continues from excuse master. He has no shame to accept responsibility. Would he also publicaly admit he was wrong playing Yasir when pitches were not suiting him?no because that will hurt his best since IK captain profile.

  60. #60
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    Speed is not the reason we lost this series .
    It's actually very little to do with the bowlers.


    If you always do what you have always done, you will always get what you always got #improve

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikhil_cric View Post
    I highly doubt it was 147 kph average pace over 4 tests!! Even if it was, he's an exception who keeps his speeds up no matter what. I think Abbas/hasan/aamir/Shaheen are a very skilled attack. And they actually have new ball skills and don't just wait for the old ball to scuff up. We saw the first 3 in England tests where they outbowled english seamers and used seam and swing to great effect. The problem is only the pace. Its alright in England where the conditions/pitches and the Dukes ball ensure lateral movement throughout the day. But in places like SA and OZ with the kookaburra it won't do that in all sessions. If these same bowlers could bowl consistent good lengths at 135-140 kph coupled wit the odd quicker bumper that would be more than good enough to be effective. These guys were bowling 127-134 kph most of the time which is too slow!
    Though I agree pace was needed on these pitches. Peak Wahab would have ideal on these pitches

  62. #62
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    yes, we scored 170 + and 250+ Indian bowler can defend this total

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah View Post
    Speed is not the reason we lost this series .
    It's actually very little to do with the bowlers.
    Our batting is rubbish, and South Africa's batting isn't that good either. Amla, Faf, QDK were out of form.

    Our bowling is totally harmless

  64. #64
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    Faf averaged 24 last year

    He got a hundred against our might bowlers

  65. #65
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    The Pakistani bowling attack is as devastating as the Teletubbies -- Sarfaraz after loss of 2nd test to SA on Jan 6th 2019

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rana View Post
    Is he complaining about not having a 4th seamer? He is complaining that he doesn’t have seamers that could actually hurry the batsman! How would Hassan solve that issue himself? He’s not a 145kph bowler!

    Why do you think Sarfaraz is so poor himself? He’s not used to facing genuine pace bowlers in his training sessions with Pakistan and all of a sudden you have Rabada, Steyn and Olivier thunderbolting them in at his pads!
    good point, just jumping on amir hassan not solve the problem.

  67. #67
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    Our bowlers in general are slower than S Africans ...

    None of them are 90+ bowlers...

    Admittedly they were slower in this test for whatever reason but that doesnt mean they were fast in the first place.

  68. #68
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    You are right Sarfraz, but why have you not done anything about it?

    These people knew beforehand that they will be touring SA yet they have not done any preparation. Why wasn't there any talk with the selectors about the fastest bowlers in the country? About the best performing bats? They just selected their usual pool of players and expecting the UAE formula to work abroad. Pathetic and nothing else.

    Mickey could have done a lot more here. Pak deserves these results for their blunders.
    Last edited by Prince of Pakistan; 6th January 2019 at 17:57.


    "You aren't a failure if you fail, you are a failure if you don't get up to try again" - Imran Khan.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saj View Post
    Playing a spinner will have been a decision that Sarfaraz was surely involved in.
    And if he didn't, then everyone would ask as to why the "best" spinner in the world wasn't​playing.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by JibranAnsari View Post
    And you say this in media , how tactless is sarfraz?
    Sarfraz has no control on what he has to say in the media. That must have hurt our bowlers. Also this statement is factually wrong since our bowlers brought us back in the game despite 170 collapse by our batsmen in the first innings in 1st test. If Sarf remains captain I am sure there will be grouping in the team. He has a very unprofessional way of leading an international side.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    And if he didn't, then everyone would ask as to why the "best" spinner in the world wasn't​playing.
    Then why give statements like fast bowlers made us lose. Quite hypocritical statement from clueless captain.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by shah_1 View Post
    Faf averaged 24 last year

    He got a hundred against our might bowlers
    He got pair against us in the first test as well. This pitch had more for batters. Don't blame bowlers if batting can't even put up 250 odd runs on this pitch batting first.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by shah_1 View Post
    That's what cricinfo showed in an article about his decline



    Amir is not skillful, he hardly swings the ball, balls mostly cross seam He rubbish against right handers and just decent against left handers.

    Shaheen isn't ready for test cricket, he clearly needs more time.
    Apart from England and Windies who use the Dukes ball where have you seen this swing Bhai? I haven't seen but maybe Boult is swinging the red kookaburra in NZ in the morning session but that's it? This ball doesn't swing at all these days. You had the best outswing bowler in the world playing this series and he couldn't bowl one good outswinger. Starc has found none in Australia and neither have the Indian bowlers. If the kookaburra ball isn't swinging in SA for Steyn of all people then you can't blame Aamir . What Steyn did do was hit that good length and a good line at 140 kph + and stuck to that with the odd fast bouncer . Aamir was doing that but around 10 kph slower. Therein was the difference.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSN View Post
    Then why give statements like fast bowlers made us lose. Quite hypocritical statement from clueless captain.
    The team lost because we have a terrible batting lineup. The bowlers were ok but they are neither quick enough or skilled enough to bowl out good batting lineups. None of our bowlers are bad but compare them to the Ind bowlers and there is at this point a massive chasm between the 2 in skill levels.

  75. #75
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    Don't hide behind lame excuses and at least learn to except the reality.
    Every time i read his statements after loosing it boils my blood...

  76. #76
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    Don't know the whole press conf. but this rubbish will only boil blood when you leave the bowlers for criticism alone. Firstly you went with less resources by stupidly playing a spinner, then it was Arthur decision to pick Amir is a frontline strike bowler, this was the biggest blunder by the team management. Mir Hamza should've been on the tour. For this test, leaving out Hasan Ali and Faheem sealed it.

    Bowlers were demoralized further by the batting lineup. Failing to mention Imam, Asad and Azhar contribution in the defeat is like a kick in the gut for the Pakistani fan, only exposing they are all together protecting themselves.


    And this does'nt help Sarfraz own situation for keeping the captaincy.

    I was against Sarfraz being stripped of captaincy cos its not going to resolve the situation only worsen it.

    The whole of Karachi and Pakistan will welcome if thechief selector, captain and the senior leech players from Hafeez to Shafiq in all 3 formats are thrown out from team by PCB which is still sleeping.
    Last edited by MenInG; 6th January 2019 at 18:27.

  77. #77
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    Sarfaraz deflecting the blame onto the bowlers rather than accepting that the senior batsmen are not performing.



  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khwaja78 View Post
    Don't know the whole press conf. but this rubbish will only boil blood when you leave the bowlers for criticism alone. Firstly you went with less resources by stupidly playing a spinner, then it was Arthur decision to pick Amir is a frontline strike bowler, this was the biggest blunder by the team management. Mir Hamza should've been on the tour. For this test, leaving out Hasan Ali and Faheem sealed it.

    Bowlers were demoralized further by the batting lineup. Failing to mention Imam, Asad and Azhar contribution in the defeat is like a kick in the gut for the Pakistani fan, only exposing they are all together protecting themselves.


    And this does'nt help Sarfraz own situation for keeping the captaincy.

    I was against Sarfraz being stripped of captaincy cos its not going to resolve the situation only worsen it.

    The whole of Karachi and Pakistan will welcome if thechief selector, captain and the senior leech players from Hafeez to Shafiq in all 3 formats are thrown out from team by PCB which is still sleeping.
    Mir Hamza?

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amjid Javed View Post
    New excuses from the captain.

    1st its the tail doesnt score any runs...
    Then its batsmen fail in 2nd inns....

    Now its bowlers not quick enough...
    Bowlers didnt bowl well..

    Then finally we need to bat like we did 2nd inns? One big partnership followed by a collapse? Hows that any better than before?
    DISGRACEFUL comments by the captain of our national side! As I read them, I was just lost for words to describe his lack of insight.

    COWARD - He never mentioned his own pathetic batting, keeping or god awful captaincy from what I read!

    Perhaps the bowlers are tired of running in hard and spilling their blood to get us into match winning positions only to see this captain and his pals water it away - how many times have we seen that!!!

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    Mir Hamza?
    Coach Mickey Arthur insisted for Amir whereas captain and others wanted Mir Hamza to tour SA.


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