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  1. #81
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    It is not the bowlers fault. They have no score to defend. They can hardly do anything when our batsmen barely score 180.

  2. #82
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    This guy is club level,simple as that.
    Unprofessional, mediocre, chicken-hearted.
    His decision to play Hafeez(another club kevel) in UAE tests recently sealed it for me

  3. #83
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    Huh...is he really blaming the bowlers? The same guys that have consistently picked up wickets? Terrible stuff.
    Last edited by MenInG; 6th January 2019 at 17:55.

  4. #84
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    With him as captain, our fans shouldnt really hope for better performances ahead

  5. #85
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    This talk of bowlers being too slow didn't come up anywhere in the last two years. Suddenly you lose 2 test matches in SA and you dump all the blame on the bowlers. When will this management realize that we have been limping on in tests solely on the basis of bowling performances this last year.

    Batting has done zilch and the reason for 95% of our test losses since MisYou


    Proximity to power deludes some into thinking they wield it.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikhil_cric View Post
    Apart from England and Windies who use the Dukes ball where have you seen this swing Bhai? I haven't seen but maybe Boult is swinging the red kookaburra in NZ in the morning session but that's it? This ball doesn't swing at all these days. You had the best outswing bowler in the world playing this series and he couldn't bowl one good outswinger. Starc has found none in Australia and neither have the Indian bowlers. If the kookaburra ball isn't swinging in SA for Steyn of all people then you can't blame Aamir . What Steyn did do was hit that good length and a good line at 140 kph + and stuck to that with the odd fast bouncer . Aamir was doing that but around 10 kph slower. Therein was the difference.
    Bhai Amir averages 34 in England since his comeback.

  7. #87
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    Wait did Sarfaraz just accuse his bowlers of lacking fitness and not performing well...... has he seen his own pitiful fitness levels and just like Shafiq one half century doesn't amount to a good performance!

  8. #88
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    Never found Abbas to be a bowler of international class . Pakistani brothers pls let me know if he is really that good. Saw Irfan playing in PSL, heard that he was also international class . Suddenly no good bowlers except Amir and Afridi

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khwaja78 View Post
    Coach Mickey Arthur insisted for Amir whereas captain and others wanted Mir Hamza to tour SA.
    Really- Mir Hamza is not going bowl out any teams. Tbh none of these guys are at the level of bowling out top teams. They are solid pros but that's about it.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    Really- Mir Hamza is not going bowl out any teams. Tbh none of these guys are at the level of bowling out top teams. They are solid pros but that's about it.
    How many did Amir bowl out btw? Amir was himself bowling at 128 km/hr.

    Mir HAmza atleast swings the bowl both ways unlike Amir.

  11. #91
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    it was dishearten to see our bowlers trundling in mid 120s.Sarfraz did right thing to point out our bowling was shambolic as our batting

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by fasihulhaq94 View Post
    This talk of bowlers being too slow didn't come up anywhere in the last two years. Suddenly you lose 2 test matches in SA and you dump all the blame on the bowlers. When will this management realize that we have been limping on in tests solely on the basis of bowling performances this last year.

    Batting has done zilch and the reason for 95% of our test losses since MisYou
    I think Pak dressing room is not in good shape, Mickey bashed senior batsmen last week and the captain clearly sided with them



    . now after scoring 300 odd they are hitting back saying bowlers are also not doing a great job so don't just blame us.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khwaja78 View Post
    How many did Amir bowl out btw? Amir was himself bowling at 128 km/hr.

    Mir HAmza atleast swings the bowl both ways unlike Amir.
    Amir has a decent track record, and if wasn't picked , everyone on here would have complained and quite rightly so. Mir Hamza is a ok FC bowler but if you think he could bowl out the Saffer in SA then we really are in trouble.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    Amir has a decent track record, and if wasn't picked , everyone on here would have complained and quite rightly so. Mir Hamza is a ok FC bowler but if you think he could bowl out the Saffer in SA then we really are in trouble.
    I'm not a fan of Hamza and of the view Taj Wali or other bowler should've been picked, with more pace and extracting bounce. Hamza has one of the best average in the domestic setup and from what I've seen has more ability than Amir to swing the bowl into right hander. On this pitch he would've been superb with the new and semi-new bowl where Amir failed. Amir performance with new bowl is a shame, not talking about this test only in previous one also.

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    Amir has a decent track record, and if wasn't picked , everyone on here would have complained and quite rightly so. Mir Hamza is a ok FC bowler but if you think he could bowl out the Saffer in SA then we really are in trouble.
    wrong amir was good in first test but in second test he have failed in critical situation and took wickets when game was already over.the amount of investment we have put in amir if it was put on someone like hamza he would have outperformed him easily

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by saeed5646 View Post
    wrong amir was good in first test but in second test he have failed in critical situation and took wickets when game was already over.the amount of investment we have put in amir if it was put on someone like hamza he would have outperformed him easily
    Mohammad Amir was fine actually. Heís got 8 wickets at an average of 21 in 3 innings, so no problems there.

  17. #97
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    Pakistani bowling unit is probably the slowest among the major test nations, but what are you going to gain by pointing this out in middle of a test series?


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  18. #98
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    Reading between the lines it seems that Sarfaraz is suggesting that Pakistan's bowlers could have bowled quicker.



  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Mohammad Amir was fine actually. He’s got 8 wickets at an average of 21 in 3 innings, so no problems there.
    Stats. are used by people here same way as Pakistan Govt. uses them for budget to justify their wrong policies.

    Amir bowled 30+ overs rofl. Did zilch with the new bowl. Non-threatening and crap. After first spell of 5 overs his pace went into the 120s. Compared to their second string bowlers they were bowling 140+ in their 4th spells with 20+ overs.
    Amir failed which is why South Africa did 431 with Markram scoring at 5 an over. Even with his occasional short length Hasan Ali was being missed. If Hasan replaces Amir in the next, this will actually help the team.

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Mohammad Amir was fine actually. He’s got 8 wickets at an average of 21 in 3 innings, so no problems there.
    stats can be misleading .if one don,t want give 100 in his bowling i would rather have honest trier in hamza

  21. #101
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    "Our captain averages 15.50 in the series, their captain averages 35.33 in the series."

  22. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakpak View Post
    It is not the bowlers fault. They have no score to defend. They can hardly do anything when our batsmen barely score 180.
    I have been saying this since the last test as well, sick of pointing it out...but if Pakistan batsmen had done even a half decent job, they would have beaten NZ 3-0 and would be going into the final test in SA 1-1. The bowlers for Pakistan have generally done a decent job, the batting is barely international level.


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  23. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corridor of Uncertainty View Post
    For once, I agree with Sarfaraz - even though batting failures are a bigger problem.

    I feel bowling coaches are focused on tight/length bowling - while in older time, it was to go out and blow the opposition away. You could say Amir/Shaheen can bowl 8-10 clicks faster but they are scared - like their batting is scared. All in the mind.

    Pakistan's bowling is a sad replica of itself.

    I may also add, since India keeps coming up - India pace bowling is very very high quality - and committed. I am sure Kohli gives them free rein. However, Indian bowling is not fast - it's fast medium. Fast bowling is a different animal.
    Well Bumrah was bowling at an avg speed of 89 miles per hr with fastest 95 shami avg speed of 86 mph with fastest 91, ishant was bowling 84 miles per hr with fastest 89 miles, OK ishant is fast medium, Shami is more towards fast but Bumrah is genuine quick, dude avg speed of 89 mph is fast very fast ask anyone here ask any aussie they were actually stunned to see Bumrah bowling that speed he matched Starc speed for speed he matched Rabada speed for speed that's what amazed saffers even Shami can up the ante if required.

  24. #104
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    In the mean time Usman Khan Shinwari is bowling at 150+ in Australia

  25. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffet View Post
    Pakistani bowling unit is probably the slowest among the major test nations, but what are you going to gain by pointing this out in middle of a test series?
    yeah even though i think it is one of better bowling talent that we have over the previous few years but dont know why they are that slow, maybe bowling on UAE pitches has taken a toll . I can understand for Abbas but amir and shaheen must have bowled quicker.

  26. #106
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    The problem is these guys aren't bowling long enough spells in first class cricket because the innings usually last 70/80 overs. The intensity is much higher in international cricket and you have to usually be out in the field for longer than 70/80 overs especially on flat pitches. These can bowl quicker than they are bowling apart from Abbas.

    Domestic pitches are affecting us in every facet.

  27. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by amax View Post
    yeah even though i think it is one of better bowling talent that we have over the previous few years but dont know why they are that slow, maybe bowling on UAE pitches has taken a toll . I can understand for Abbas but amir and shaheen must have bowled quicker.
    They are better than what Pakistan had in recent years. No doubt about that.

    I think it's the fitness level. Some of the same bowlers can bowl higher speed in ODI and specially in T-20. Even here in the first spell they bowl faster and then drop is pretty big in subsequent spells.

    After this embarrassing comment from Captain, they may come out and bowl a bit faster in entire match next time, but they may have a higher chance of getting injured unless they have fitness to maintain the speed without stressing themselves too much.

    Just need to work on fitness here.
    Last edited by Buffet; 6th January 2019 at 19:09.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  28. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by BreadPakoda View Post
    The elephant in the room. Graeme Smith also rightly pointed out. And I won't put it down to "lack of rest" as even in their first spells these guys were considerably slower than their counterparts.

    Putting it down to lack of rest or lack of 5th bowling partner etc. would be ignoring the issue in hand. Fresh bowlers bowling at 125kph-135kph. That's Bangladesh level.
    I guess its more to do with the grounds in SA where your fitness is tested to an extreme level.

  29. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by KhanNn View Post
    In the mean time Usman Khan Shinwari is bowling at 150+ in Australia
    Completely different conditions and grounds. In Australia it’s easier to generate pace as you can see from the fact that most of the fastest deliveries were delivered in Australia.

    You will see Shaheen and Amir both bowling in 140s even in Eng. With SA i dont know if its hardeness of the ground which hinders run up or the delivery points but it has been the case with most subcontinental teams touring SA.

    Not having 5 th bowler to share workload didnt help either.

  30. #110
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    When the ship is sinking now stating the obvious? They been bowling like that for a long time Sarfi you just noticed? Great

  31. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffet View Post
    Pakistani bowling unit is probably the slowest among the major test nations, but what are you going to gain by pointing this out in middle of a test series?

    In ODIs these bowler bowl it a much higher pace, Shaheen touched 147 kph in UAE against NZ in ODIs even Faheem was bowling around 140 koh.

    Its something to do with mindset of conserving energy maybe bcz if you can bowl 140 plus with white ball you can do the same with red ball but yeah we have been facing this issue in tests and in SA it only exaggerated.
    0s

  32. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saj View Post
    Reading between the lines it seems that Sarfaraz is suggesting that Pakistan's bowlers could have bowled quicker.
    Its odd when you have to say these things in the press conference rather than to the bowlers, bowling coach or physio.

  33. #113
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    We should've gone with four fast bowlers and ditched the specialist spinner. The record of spinners at Centurion and Cape Town speaks for itself, though as usual Sarfraz doesn't do his homework.

    Did Sarfraz really think this pathetic batting lineup that he belongs in would take the Tests into Day 4 and 5 when Yasir would become a threat ?

  34. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    We should've gone with four fast bowlers and ditched the specialist spinner. The record of spinners at Centurion and Cape Town speaks for itself, though as usual Sarfraz doesn't do his homework.

    Did Sarfraz really think this pathetic batting lineup that he belongs in would take the Tests into Day 4 and 5 when Yasir would become a threat ?
    Exactly.

    Looks a lot like a certain powerful orange-coloured President: never doing any homework, making bad decisions and then blaming his minions.

    I donít think Sarfraz can even survive as a player now. Heís antagonised his teammates, and in every form of the game he offers much less with the bat than Mohammad Rizwan.

  35. #115
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    Like it or not Amir is the weak link in our bowling attack. Don't get fooled by his 4 tailender wickets.

    Won't blame Hasan, Abbas and Shaheen much

  36. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan24 View Post
    In ODIs these bowler bowl it a much higher pace, Shaheen touched 147 kph in UAE against NZ in ODIs even Faheem was bowling around 140 koh.

    Its something to do with mindset of conserving energy maybe bcz if you can bowl 140 plus with white ball you can do the same with red ball but yeah we have been facing this issue in tests and in SA it only exaggerated.
    0s
    Yep, They can certainly bowl faster in shorter formats. It comes down to fitness.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  37. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    We should've gone with four fast bowlers and ditched the specialist spinner. The record of spinners at Centurion and Cape Town speaks for itself, though as usual Sarfraz doesn't do his homework.

    Did Sarfraz really think this pathetic batting lineup that he belongs in would take the Tests into Day 4 and 5 when Yasir would become a threat ?
    Disagree- if 2 batsman get in, everyone quite rightly asks for the spinner ( like the Saffers were when Masood and Shafiq Got in), whether that should be Yasir outside the UAE is another question.

  38. #118
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    Itís very clear that heís trying to protect the batsmen which looks silly. But you guys are going overboard with your criticism. What he said is true. A much much better performance was expected from the Pakistani bowlers and they didnít deliver. Pace is definitely one of the key aspects. You get batsmen out more often when you give them less time to react and adjust. It was sad to see Sarfaraz looking clueless when the SA batsmen were having an easy time out there. There isnít much he could have done. Maybe the field could have been more aggressive for the new batsmen. You canít blame him for selecting Yasir Shah either. It made sense at the time.

    Iím not defending Sarfaraz one bit here. His batting and captaincy are poor and he doesnít deserve a place in the team at the moment. In fact I remember when me and @MMHS were saying this in a thread many months ago people here pelted stones at us! I remember people questioning one of his potw in which he said some not-so positive things about Sarfaraz. I think being mercurial is a Pakistani thing. So many u-turns.

  39. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by shah_1 View Post
    Bhai Amir averages 34 in England since his comeback.
    He was decent in the recent series in England. Poor in the 2016 one.

  40. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by SarfiBabarHaris View Post
    Like it or not Amir is the weak link in our bowling attack. Don't get fooled by his 4 tailender wickets.

    Won't blame Hasan, Abbas and Shaheen much
    He bowled well . Accurate but no pace.


  41. #121
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    Watching the likes of Bumra, Shami, Yadav for the last year, I am shocked to see how they maintain 136-140 km/hr in all their spells. Definitely the fitness work, strength and conditioning work and the diets the bowlers are on must be making a huge difference

  42. #122
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    It was sarfi that selected the spinner yasir who hardly bowled If there was a extra pacer and even faheem as the 5th option maybe the bowlers wouldve bent their back a bit more knowing theyd have adequate rest in between spells

    Instead bowling practically as a 3 man pace attack

  43. #123
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    Lol what happened to the clichť that pace isn't everything.

    Yes bowling workloads have played a role, the lack of a proper 5th bowling pace option is a factor but our pacers have horrible fitness for international cricket.

  44. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    Lol what happened to the clichť that pace isn't everything.

    Yes bowling workloads have played a role, the lack of a proper 5th bowling pace option is a factor but our pacers have horrible fitness for international cricket.
    Bold is still true. No one is saying that pace is nothing.

    Pace adds additional dimension. 120KPH is bit low. 135 KPH is not too fast, but it makes it much harder. 145 KPH makes it even more harder. All of that is true as long as bowler is bowling with control.


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  45. #125
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    How fast was phillander?

  46. #126
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    He knew Amir doesn't get above 135 much anymore yet still selected him? Why are you complaining when you could've chosen the quicker bowler is Hasan Ali.


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  47. #127
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    Amir haters before this Test:

    Pace isn't everything. Abbas is the leader of the attack and will take wickets!

    Amir haters after this Test ended:

    Why is Amir bowling in 130s? No pace at all! What a trundler!

    ...even though he was our best bowler.


  48. #128
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    Lol, the other question to ask is whether he is accusing the bowlers of deliberately bowling within themselves to conserve their energies, careers and not giving it a 100% given the situation of the team?

  49. #129
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    I have seen Amir do this many times where he resorts to 126-130 km/hr stuff once he sees a flat wicket and has no interest in trying to bend his back at all and trying to earn wickets the hard way. Call it a lack of fitness, lack of heart but it is what it is

  50. #130
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    Who is the fastest young bowler in Pakistan ATM?

  51. #131
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    Spineless coward.

    Protects his friends in Asa’s and azhar and throws the bowlers under the bus.

    Drop sarfraz and remove him from all formats.
    Drop Asad
    Drop azhar
    Drop malik
    Drop Hafeez

    Make babar captain of all formats.

    Bring in Umar Akmal, haris and saud and fresh faces. Have a rotation policy so all get to play and express their talent.

    Build a team of young players. Change the senior culture. Have the new crop become stars in Pakistan and watchbfhe culture change at grass root.
    Last edited by Abdullah719; 6th January 2019 at 22:04.

  52. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saj View Post
    Sarfaraz deflecting the blame onto the bowlers rather than accepting that the senior batsmen are not performing.
    Not really. He clearly said 'IF you talk about our bowlers and their bowlers'

    If batting isn't clicking, that doesn't mean that there can be nothing wrong with the bowling. Pacers have been well below their potential speeds and he's just pointing it out.

  53. #133
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    is he blaming the bowling for not defending scores of sub 200 scores?


    If pakistan cricket is to move forward they need to stop going back

  54. #134
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    He is coming across as a whiny, petulant child. If the pressures of captaincy are getting to him, maybe he should resign and give it to someone else.


    2 possibilities exist: Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are terrifying.

  55. #135
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    DOesn't have natural leadership qualities or captaincy instincts. Whatever wins he ekes out could just be a coincidence.

  56. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Who is the fastest young bowler in Pakistan ATM?
    Probably Naseem Shah.

    But, pace isn't everything. 134-140kph is excellent pace if you can move the ball. Which Amir, sometimes ABbas, and Shaheen too at times can.

    Abbas is 120s/early 130s bowler and hasn't been able to do anything since the NZ series. But, maybe it's because he had an injury.


    Amir, Hasan and Shaheen can all hit ~145 kph.

    No use if batsmen haven't even put up a score on the board.

  57. #137
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    The 130kph comment as much as we don't like it, it's true.

    It's painful to see Pakistan's pace bowlers heading this way. It's hard to accept when we have been used to watching some of the fastest and greatest bowlers.



  58. #138
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    I might be in minority here but our bowling apart from Shaheen in 1st test 1st innings has below way below par.

  59. #139
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    When the opposition is praising your bowling attack, but your captain undermines their effort by giving out a statement that "they aren't getting wickets because they are not bowling quick". It really sends out a wrong message.
    It's not that difficult to guess what has gone wrong for Pakistan in this tour. Batting of course, in a manner almost eclipsing the events of the past has let us down, but even after such an evident failure of the senior batsmen, the blame has been laid out on the seamers.
    If only our batting unit had the guts to get even half decent scores, the situation would have been completely different. After getting being bundled out on a paltry score of 171 in the 1st innings of Centurion Test, it was the bowling unit that restricted the Protea batting line up to level the playing field. But then again, it was the same old picture, emulating the erratic and horrific nature that is associated with Pakistani batting, that our batters were able to paint in the second innings.
    The whole point of comparing our bowling attack with their's, becomes invalid when you realize the fact that, Rabada and Steyn are probably going to be recognized as two of their greatest fast bowlers. Even Philander, with his nagging line and length, and immaculate display of swing bowling isn't going to be that far behind.

  60. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by 786warrior View Post
    DISGRACEFUL comments by the captain of our national side! As I read them, I was just lost for words to describe his lack of insight.

    COWARD - He never mentioned his own pathetic batting, keeping or god awful captaincy from what I read!

    Perhaps the bowlers are tired of running in hard and spilling their blood to get us into match winning positions only to see this captain and his pals water it away - how many times have we seen that!!!
    Agreed. This is really very poor of Sarfaraz. Even if everything he said is true, as a captain his responsibility is to inspire his teammates rather than criticize them publicly.

  61. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by SarfiBabarHaris View Post
    I might be in minority here but our bowling apart from Shaheen in 1st test 1st innings has below way below par.
    No, you are not minority. I personally belive bowlers could have bowled better even with this 3+1 combination. It didnít happen for two reasons - entire team got demoralised with 177 total. Sarfraz would have definitely batted first had he won the toss and this was a better track to bat first - yet when PAK was all out for 177, lots of shoulders went down, this happens and you canít help.

    The second reason is more hypocritical- Sarfraz as a captain has put his bowlers down in public after 1st Test and he has lost dressing room, players are not going to fight for him. Pacers are evident here because their speed is measurable, you can see that in speed gun; but I am sure overall spirit of the team is not high.

    Sarfrazís tenure will end in tears unless he steps down in time - that too for ODI as well. After that, if he can make the playing XI on merit - he is welcome to the team, no issues; but now he is in the squad (let alone stating XI) only because of his status & players do know this. I think, I have suffered from ***** brigade here in PP most - within a year from at least 20% of PP, it has come down few, in fact I can name & count in my fingers. We can see who have gone hiding and I must appreciate you here to man up & show in this thread.

    This is just after losing 2nd Test to SAF in SAF - a series most were predicting a 3-0 thrashing, therefore nothing surprising or unexpected here, still ...... imagine, PAK going to WC under this guy and returns prematurely with 2-3 wins in priminary rounds with Captain dynamic throwing his team under bus, despite himself being dummy - WHAT WILL HAPPEN!!!

  62. #142
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    Playing Faheem would've eased the workload of the quicks, which would definitely have led to a faster bowling average of the pack. Maybe not 145+ but 135+ for sure.

    Also, absolutely zilch about himself, Asad's and Azhar's series. Pathetic. Asad made 88? Waow alhamdulillah, dekho bacho this is how you need to perform to play test cricket for Pakistan Smh..

    Many of us, myself included, predicted 3-0 SA so it's not that surprising... still frustrating though..

  63. #143
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    I despise Sarfraz as much as the next guy, but I think he was right to publicly criticize our so-called fast bowlers.

    Our bowling has been massively overrated for many years now and gets too much protection from the fans because the batting is pathetic.

    However, they have lost us plenty of matches and series as well. About time someone calls them out.

  64. #144
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    Sarfaraz might be saying this to make this misfiring batting unit look better, but he has a point. It's actually pretty similar to when India toured South Africa. Everyone was raving about their bowling, saying their batting let them down. But the South Africans bowled a fair bit better than an admittedly excellent Indian bowling unit, which was ultimately the difference (along with ABD playing two gun innings). The opposite has happened now in Australia, where they have out-bowled a quality Oz bowling attack who weren't poor but didn't live up to the mark.

    It comes down to doing things harder and better for a sustained period of time. Those 10 loose balls in your spell can make a difference of 30 runs. That's all it takes for a loss vs a win in many cases.

  65. #145
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    The fault lies with selector an his committe, Hari's, Shahab, Abaas, all on tour carrying injuries, I doubt if Abaas is still 100% Amir doesn't want to play tests anyway. Along with the fact there world class spinner fizzed out because the pitches ARE NOT SPIN FREINDLY..

    Mohsin Khan and his committe are gonna have a great new year..


    This is what happen when you don't take take things for granted,,

    Fakhar is no good as test opener
    "he likes to play his shots "
    "he struggles against the new ball"

    Go back to the drawing board and select players from domestic structure on merit, even if that means people like Fawad, Butt, Asif ,,, if they are proforming in domestic matches they deserve to play for they're country
    Last edited by Saj; 7th January 2019 at 02:18.

  66. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saj View Post
    The 130kph comment as much as we don't like it, it's true.

    It's painful to see Pakistan's pace bowlers heading this way. It's hard to accept when we have been used to watching some of the fastest and greatest bowlers.
    I agree that the current crop is not Express in pace, although Shaheen Shah Afridi can be.

    But the big problem was this.

    Any normal tour of England - let alone Australia or South Africa or New Zealand - requires a minimum of 6 quick bowlers.

    Consider the 1992 Pakistan tour of England. Everybody knows that there was Wasim, Waqar and Aaqib. But there was also Saleem Jaffer, Ataur Rehman, Tanvir Mehdi and Naved Anjum (whom Johnners called "National Anthem").

    Inzamam was there. He knows that there was a seventh quick because Waqar wasn't fit for the First Test. If he has any intelligence (which I admit I have long questioned) he should be able to remember this.

    This tour of South Africa featured 3 back-to-back Test matches. Six quicks was a bare minimum.

    But Inzamam sent 4 quicks of whom one was injured, plus an all-rounder.

    So we get to Cape Town last week.

    One of the four quicks - Hasan Ali - has already been shown to be unselectable, because in a low-scoring First Test his shortness meant he couldn't find a length to slow down the scoring rate in the First Innings.

    That leaves 2 fit quicks (Amir and SSA), plus the all-rounder, plus the semi-fit Mohammad Abbas.

    South Africa's quicks were all fit, and they still chose to drop their spinner and select 4 quicks.

    Yet Sarfraz and Inzamam over-ruled Mickey's request for 4 quicks and decided to pick 2 fit quicks (Amir and SSA) plus the semi-fit Abbas.

    And that is why neither Amir nor SSA could bowl at their fastest. They had to not just bowl much longer spells than were ideal, they could not go flat out and risk injury because if they did the team would be down to 1 quick bowler plus the semi-fit Abbas.

    In Tests Amir is only a 133-138K bowler and SSA is only a 137-142K bowler. But those paces are dependent upon having a fourth quick to share the workload.

    If you go down the 3 quicks plus a spinner route, then you take 5K off their median speeds.

  67. #147
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    Our bowling is nothing to rave about but in this case the captain is trying to deflect from his own poor batting. We should have gotten at-least a 250+ score in the 1st innings

  68. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    I agree that the current crop is not Express in pace, although Shaheen Shah Afridi can be.

    But the big problem was this.

    Any normal tour of England - let alone Australia or South Africa or New Zealand - requires a minimum of 6 quick bowlers.

    Consider the 1992 Pakistan tour of England. Everybody knows that there was Wasim, Waqar and Aaqib. But there was also Saleem Jaffer, Ataur Rehman, Tanvir Mehdi and Naved Anjum (whom Johnners called "National Anthem").

    Inzamam was there. He knows that there was a seventh quick because Waqar wasn't fit for the First Test. If he has any intelligence (which I admit I have long questioned) he should be able to remember this.

    This tour of South Africa featured 3 back-to-back Test matches. Six quicks was a bare minimum.

    But Inzamam sent 4 quicks of whom one was injured, plus an all-rounder.

    So we get to Cape Town last week.

    One of the four quicks - Hasan Ali - has already been shown to be unselectable, because in a low-scoring First Test his shortness meant he couldn't find a length to slow down the scoring rate in the First Innings.

    That leaves 2 fit quicks (Amir and SSA), plus the all-rounder, plus the semi-fit Mohammad Abbas.

    South Africa's quicks were all fit, and they still chose to drop their spinner and select 4 quicks.

    Yet Sarfraz and Inzamam over-ruled Mickey's request for 4 quicks and decided to pick 2 fit quicks (Amir and SSA) plus the semi-fit Abbas.

    And that is why neither Amir nor SSA could bowl at their fastest. They had to not just bowl much longer spells than were ideal, they could not go flat out and risk injury because if they did the team would be down to 1 quick bowler plus the semi-fit Abbas.

    In Tests Amir is only a 133-138K bowler and SSA is only a 137-142K bowler. But those paces are dependent upon having a fourth quick to share the workload.

    If you go down the 3 quicks plus a spinner route, then you take 5K off their median speeds.
    I’m not sure this theory makes any sense! Why are the first spells of MA and SSA still below 137kmh??


    "The Indian bowling attack is as devastating as the Teletubbies"- Sir Ian Botham

  69. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rana View Post
    Iím not sure this theory makes any sense! Why are the first spells of MA and SSA still below 137kmh??
    Because if I know that Iím one of only two fit quicks and that I canít afford to take the handbrake off, Iím not going to go at full tilt.

    They are 10K slower than the South Africans anyway. But when there arenít enough fit quicks, itís even worse.

  70. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Because if I know that I’m one of only two fit quicks and that I can’t afford to take the handbrake off, I’m not going to go at full tilt.

    They are 10K slower than the South Africans anyway. But when there aren’t enough fit quicks, it’s even worse.
    I’m not sure how fast bowlers operate. They can’t withhold their full strength with a new ball or slightly new ball in their hand because they must make the most out of it. Even with 3 pacers, the SA fast bowlers would not take their foot of the gas.

    Firstly, Amir isn’t as motivated to bend his back in Test cricket because there seems to be no thrill in it for him. Shaheen is a bright prospect and I’m expecting him to become a 150-154kmh bowler by the age of 23. Amir really needs to save his energy for what he really wants to do, and that is to bowl in big matches where the whole world wants him to deliver


    "The Indian bowling attack is as devastating as the Teletubbies"- Sir Ian Botham

  71. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rana View Post
    I’m not sure how fast bowlers operate. They can’t withhold their full strength with a new ball or slightly new ball in their hand because they must make the most out of it. Even with 3 pacers, the SA fast bowlers would not take their foot of the gas.

    Firstly, Amir isn’t as motivated to bend his back in Test cricket because there seems to be no thrill in it for him. Shaheen is a bright prospect and I’m expecting him to become a 150-154kmh bowler by the age of 23. Amir really needs to save his energy for what he really wants to do, and that is to bowl in big matches where the whole world wants him to deliver
    I think I wrote that Amir is a 133-138K proposition anyway.

    And two months ago I advocated for SSA as a 145K bowler, but limited to 4 over spells because of his age and physique.

    I donít blame him for bowling slower, because it helps no-one if he fractures his spine.

  72. #152
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    To be honest, it would be extremely fair to question the attitude and commitment of the two pacers especially Amir and Shaheen as both have shown that they can operate at 137-144 km/hr but are resorting to 127-130 km/hr stuff from their second spell onwards.

    Either the bowlers are deliberately not bowling at full throttle because they dont have the stomach for it or they dont have the fitness for long spells in international cricket

  73. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    To be honest, it would be extremely fair to question the attitude and commitment of the two pacers especially Amir and Shaheen as both have shown that they can operate at 137-144 km/hr but are resorting to 127-130 km/hr stuff from their second spell onwards.

    Either the bowlers are deliberately not bowling at full throttle because they dont have the stomach for it or they dont have the fitness for long spells in international cricket
    We were a 3 man attack. The bowlers perhaps felt too much pressure as Yasir hardly bowled.

    Blame goes to the batsmen and poor team selection.

  74. #154
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    This guy doesn't know the second thing about fast bowling. You can't go full throttle when only 3 of you are gonna bowl all the overs. Ideally, we should've played 4 genuine seamers and ask Azhar/Shan to fill 10-15 overs a day. They've been overbowled and that too without rest.

    You can bowl a lot of overs in a day but with ample rest in-between the spells. It's impossible to keep up speed when you keep coming back.
    Last edited by Abdullah719; 7th January 2019 at 13:41.


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  75. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by gazza619 View Post
    We were a 3 man attack. The bowlers perhaps felt too much pressure as Yasir hardly bowled.

    Blame goes to the batsmen and poor team selection.
    Can't blame the team management, we have posters over here who are advocates of playing an extra batsman and going in with a 4 man attack and that the likes of Azhar Ali, Asad Shafiq, Shan Masood can be used to ease the workload of pacers

  76. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    To be honest, it would be extremely fair to question the attitude and commitment of the two pacers especially Amir and Shaheen as both have shown that they can operate at 137-144 km/hr but are resorting to 127-130 km/hr stuff from their second spell onwards.

    Either the bowlers are deliberately not bowling at full throttle because they dont have the stomach for it or they dont have the fitness for long spells in international cricket
    The exact same thing happens to Starc, Hazlewood and Cummins when there is no Mitchell Marsh to share the load.

    It's crazy to go flat out in a threadbare attack. What if Amir and SSA had gone full throttle and found South Africa 200-4, Yasir almost unbowlable and only one quick able to have a rest at a time.

    Oh, hold on, that's exactly what happened!

  77. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    Can't blame the team management, we have posters over here who are advocates of playing an extra batsman and going in with a 4 man attack and that the likes of Azhar Ali, Asad Shafiq, Shan Masood can be used to ease the workload of pacers
    But I showed in the stats thread that:

    Imam-ul-Haq = half a batsman
    Azhar Ali = a quarter of a batsman
    Fakhar Zaman = a sixth of a batsman

    Playing Fakhar as an extra batsman - the third opener - only gave the team around 15% of the runs an extra batsman should give, but wore out the quicks and reduced their already limited pace.

    It was insanity.

    And Sarfraz and Inzamam over-ruled Mickey Arthur to do it.

  78. #158
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    Jason Holder is a 125 kph bowler as well. But he can be a handful in right conditions. He averages like 12 for the year 2018.

  79. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by gazza619 View Post
    We were a 3 man attack. The bowlers perhaps felt too much pressure as Yasir hardly bowled.

    Blame goes to the batsmen and poor team selection.
    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    But I showed in the stats thread that:

    Imam-ul-Haq = half a batsman
    Azhar Ali = a quarter of a batsman
    Fakhar Zaman = a sixth of a batsman

    Playing Fakhar as an extra batsman - the third opener - only gave the team around 15% of the runs an extra batsman should give, but wore out the quicks and reduced their already limited pace.

    It was insanity.

    And Sarfraz and Inzamam over-ruled Mickey Arthur to do it.
    Inzamam does not select the playing eleven on tour, secondly this perception that Sarfaraz does not have any influence on team selection is flawed, he already put his foot down on playing Shafiq and Yasir

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    It is not about pace alone. It is about the right areas and also keeping at it consistently. Pakistan conceded lots of runs in the first innings. This surely wasn't a 430 pitch. SA should have been kept under 350 in the first dig. Pakistan did not score enough in the first innings but again the bowling wasn't flash either. If not for Amir running through the tail, Pakistan might have conceded more runs which would have resulted in an innings defeat.


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