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  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by giri26 View Post
    It is not about pace alone. It is about the right areas and also keeping at it consistently. Pakistan conceded lots of runs in the first innings. This surely wasn't a 430 pitch. SA should have been kept under 350 in the first dig. Pakistan did not score enough in the first innings but again the bowling wasn't flash either. If not for Amir running through the tail, Pakistan might have conceded more runs which would have resulted in an innings defeat.
    Go back to the second morning.

    Pakistan having been dismissed for 177 bowled badly on the first evening and South Africa finished at 123-2.

    The next morning they bowled really, really well.

    Mohammad Amir started with overnight figures of 8-2-25-1 and Mohammad Abbas with 9-0-45-0 with a ball already 30 overs old.

    Amir then bowled a brilliant (and quicker than usual) spell of 4-2-5-0 until he was replaced by Shaheen Shah Afridi (who had previously bowled 9-1-34-0).

    Abbas bowled a 7 over spell of 7-3-10-1.

    And then Amir - having had only THREE OVERS OFF - had to come in at the other end to replace Mohammad Abbas and bowl another 5 over spell.

    It was ridiculous.

    It was not surprising that the South Africans then got away, or that the bowlers ran out of steam.

    Abbas was not even fit and he had to bowl a 7 over spell.

    Amir bowled 4 overs, got 3 overs off, then bowled another 5 over spell.

    That's what happens when you play only 3 quicks in South Africa.

    You overuse the quicks you have, and they get slower and slower and slower.
    Last edited by Junaids; 7th January 2019 at 07:32.

  2. #162
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    The legitimacy of his comment doesn't matter.

    Pakistan has lost both matches because of its batting (which includes Sarfraz). In typical Pakistani fashion, the blame goes to the bowlers for not putting in superhuman performances to cover for pathetic batsmanship.


    May the Hawks Fly Forever. Lightning Hawks CC -- Team Thread.

  3. #163
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    If Sarf were a bowler his excuse would be.

    Their batsmen score 400+ and our batsmen can barely score 200, how can we win?

  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by gazza619 View Post
    We were a 3 man attack. The bowlers perhaps felt too much pressure as Yasir hardly bowled.

    Blame goes to the batsmen and poor team selection.
    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    But I showed in the stats thread that:

    Imam-ul-Haq = half a batsman
    Azhar Ali = a quarter of a batsman
    Fakhar Zaman = a sixth of a batsman

    Playing Fakhar as an extra batsman - the third opener - only gave the team around 15% of the runs an extra batsman should give, but wore out the quicks and reduced their already limited pace.

    It was insanity.

    And Sarfraz and Inzamam over-ruled Mickey Arthur to do it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Go back to the second morning.

    Pakistan having been dismissed for 177 bowled badly on the first evening and South Africa finished at 123-2.

    The next morning they bowled really, really well.

    Mohammad Amir started with overnight figures of 8-2-25-1 and Mohammad Abbas with 9-0-45-0 with a ball already 30 overs old.

    Amir then bowled a brilliant (and quicker than usual) spell of 4-2-5-0 until he was replaced by Shaheen Shah Afridi (who had previously bowled 9-1-34-0).

    Abbas bowled a 7 over spell of 7-3-10-1.

    And then Amir - having had only THREE OVERS OFF - had to come in at the other end to replace Mohammad Abbas and bowl another 5 over spell.

    It was ridiculous.

    It was not surprising that the South Africans then got away, or that the bowlers ran out of steam.

    Abbas was not even fit and he had to bowl a 7 over spell.

    Amir bowled 4 overs, got 3 overs off, then bowled another 5 over spell.

    That's what happens when you play only 3 quicks in South Africa.

    You overuse the quicks you have, and they get slower and slower and slower.
    Mickey Arthur having coached for so long in SA, this selection blunder is unforgivable but then again, we hear that he was over ruled by Sarfaraz

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Go back to the second morning.

    Pakistan having been dismissed for 177 bowled badly on the first evening and South Africa finished at 123-2.

    The next morning they bowled really, really well.

    Mohammad Amir started with overnight figures of 8-2-25-1 and Mohammad Abbas with 9-0-45-0 with a ball already 30 overs old.

    Amir then bowled a brilliant (and quicker than usual) spell of 4-2-5-0 until he was replaced by Shaheen Shah Afridi (who had previously bowled 9-1-34-0).

    Abbas bowled a 7 over spell of 7-3-10-1.

    And then Amir - having had only THREE OVERS OFF - had to come in at the other end to replace Mohammad Abbas and bowl another 5 over spell.

    It was ridiculous.

    It was not surprising that the South Africans then got away, or that the bowlers ran out of steam.

    Abbas was not even fit and he had to bowl a 7 over spell.

    Amir bowled 4 overs, got 3 overs off, then bowled another 5 over spell.

    That's what happens when you play only 3 quicks in South Africa.

    You overuse the quicks you have, and they get slower and slower and slower.
    Australia always played with three quick everywhere, South Africa itself played with three quick in last match.
    If Pak pacers are not fit then they should select the pacers who are fit.
    Selecting the fourth pacer can be more bad like India found out in Perth test, if you don't get quick wickets then you are doomed, and workload become suddenly more.
    See what happened to Africa in second innings ,quick were tired and there was no spinner to give them a break.
    The thing is it was the pak batting who missed the trick.

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    Mickey Arthur having coached for so long in SA, this selection blunder is unforgivable but then again, we hear that he was over ruled by Sarfaraz
    for all the hype Mickey is an average coach with questionable legacy. no surprise that he was kicked out previously from coaching job

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    Mickey Arthur having coached for so long in SA, this selection blunder is unforgivable but then again, we hear that he was over ruled by Sarfaraz
    You just need to look at the model that the West Indies used for years and years and years in every 2 hour session of cricket:

    BOWLER 1: Bowls 5 overs in 50 minutes up to Minute 50 of 120.
    BOWLER 2: Bowls 5 overs in 50 minutes up to Minute 50 of 120.
    BOWLER 3: Bowls 5 overs in next 50 minutes up to Minute 105 of 120.
    BOWLER 4: Bowls 5 overs in next 50 minutes up to Minute 105 of 120.
    BOWLER 5: Bowls 3 overs of spin before the break
    BOWLER 2: Bowls 2 more overs before the break (after 60 minutes off)

    The quicks get long, long breaks so that they can keep their pace up.

    In Pakistan terms, by Lunch on Day 1 we would have seen:

    Mohammad Amir bowl 5 overs
    Mohammad Abbas bowl 7 overs
    Shaheen Shah Afridi bowl 5 overs
    Faheem Ashraf bowl 5 overs
    Shadab Khan bowl 3 overs.

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Navdeep Srivastava View Post
    Australia always played with three quick everywhere, South Africa itself played with three quick in last match.
    If Pak pacers are not fit then they should select the pacers who are fit.
    Selecting the fourth pacer can be more bad like India found out in Perth test, if you don't get quick wickets then you are doomed, and workload become suddenly more.
    See what happened to Africa in second innings ,quick were tired and there was no spinner to give them a break.
    The thing is it was the pak batting who missed the trick.
    That's just not right.

    Australia had Shane Watson as their fourth pace bowler until 2015 and since then have had Mitchell Marsh.

    South Africa used Jacques Kallis as their fourth pace bowler for 18 years.

    England used Andrew Flintoff as their fourth pace bowler for years too.

    Pakistan used to do this too. I watched them compete hard at the Gabba in Brisbane in 1999-2000 with an attack of Wasim Akram, Shoaib Akhtar, Azhar Mahmood, Abdul Razzaq and Mushtaq Ahmed.

    I think outside Asia there is more use for a Moeen Ali than an R Ashwin. If you pick a spinner it's best to have a guy who can bat in the Top Seven and reliably contribute 30 runs per innings, but who is skilled enough as a spinner to bowl 3 overs per session in the first 3 innings of the match and to try to bowl you to victory on a wearing pitch in the fourth innings.

    That will never be Yasir Shah. But Shadab could be that bowler if he can improve his batting.

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah719 View Post
    Sarfaraz Ahmed at a presser:

    "If you talk about our bowlers and their bowlers, there was a big difference and our bowlers are not upto the mark"

    "Our bowlers are bowling at average speed of 130 kph whilst their bowlers were bowling at 145 kph, if you bowl with lack of pace you will not get wickets"

    "I dont know whats going on there [speaking about speeds] but previously it has happened like that when I came in 2013 - we had the same problem - at that time we had Irfan, Umar Gul and Tanvir Ahmed - they also had same problem but I dont know [pointing outside] whats happening in here in Cape Town"

    "For me they are fitter than us"

    "For me as a team we are not playing well, we were thinking that our bowling was far better based on Centurion but we didnt take wickets here and if we had done that, we would have restricted them to 250-300 runs and it would have been a different story"

    "Credit goes to SA, they know how to play in SA. Their bowlers bowled really well and didn't give us any bad balls, our batsmen played some quality shots. They batted well too but we gave too many loose balls"

    "We lacked discipline in batting but whenever Asian team goes away, they have problems but the way our batsmen showed their character in the 2nd innings, that's how you play Test cricket. We're getting better day by day"

    "For the last Test, we need to bat like we did in the 2nd inns, we have nothing to lose. We need to be positive. But we also have to take 20 wickets otherwise we can't win. India took 20 wickets in Johannesburg in their win. Fakhar batted at 6 because he likes to play shots, he was facing some problems with the new ball and Shan Masood was batting really well so we thought Fakhar might feel better at #6"
    Clearly trying to deflect the blame. In Centurion the bowlers did exactly what he is asking for - restrict the lead to a minimum. What did the batsman do? What makes him think it would have been any different here if the bowlers had restricted SA to 250-300. I am sure we would have collapsed to another 170-200 score. India won the Johannesburg test because of their batting and not bowling. It was Kohli, Pujara and Rahane who won them the match on a bad pitch. If he had even a shred of dignity, Sarfaraz would introspect about his own performance (both as a keeper and as a captain) rather than blaming the only functioning part of the team.

  10. #170
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    Pakistan bowling should take a bit of blame. They let SA score too many runs above par. Conceding above 400 on that pitch cannot be defended at all. Batsmen were poor in the first dig so were the bowlers.

  11. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    That's just not right.

    Australia had Shane Watson as their fourth pace bowler until 2015 and since then have had Mitchell Marsh.

    South Africa used Jacques Kallis as their fourth pace bowler for 18 years.

    England used Andrew Flintoff as their fourth pace bowler for years too.

    Pakistan used to do this too. I watched them compete hard at the Gabba in Brisbane in 1999-2000 with an attack of Wasim Akram, Shoaib Akhtar, Azhar Mahmood, Abdul Razzaq and Mushtaq Ahmed.

    I think outside Asia there is more use for a Moeen Ali than an R Ashwin. If you pick a spinner it's best to have a guy who can bat in the Top Seven and reliably contribute 30 runs per innings, but who is skilled enough as a spinner to bowl 3 overs per session in the first 3 innings of the match and to try to bowl you to victory on a wearing pitch in the fourth innings.

    That will never be Yasir Shah. But Shadab could be that bowler if he can improve his batting.
    Watson hardly used to bowl lot of overs, just checked in profile 5495 ball in 59 test match, approx less than 8 over per inning, more of a part timer and legendary Aussie domination came with three bowlers.
    Kallis example is right but kallis is once in a life time generation player.
    Azhar, Razzaq had potential but they sucked big time, why do you think they were dropped from test team, if they were great like kallis then why they don't they play more. You can't use one match example for whole life time.
    South Africa won match itself with three pacers on last match, pak batsman missed the trick, like in second inning african pacer were tired.

  12. #172
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    I heard his press conference and i have to say that i am appalled at the way he was continously blaming the bowlers.not only on their pace but even on their fitness,claiming the Saffer bowlers were fitter than them.and how to win test matches you need to take the 20 wickets.
    He even had the audacity to say we batted really well because their bowlers gave us no lose ball and it was all upto the quality of our cricketing shots that we accumulated the runs we did.which is ** btw because Olibivier got hit for about 4 fours in one over and they were pretty loose balls and that is just one example.He has to be delusional if he thinks he made his 50 against an attack of Rabada,Steyn,Philander and Olivier purely due to his own quality of batting.And oh btw the runs Saffers accumulated was because of the loose balls our bowlers were bowling.
    I mean i agree we were not upto the mark because this brittle Saffer batting lineup should not have made 450.but comeone you can not harp on and on and on about your bowling in front of the media.How shattering it must be to their confidence.

  13. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    I despise Sarfraz as much as the next guy, but I think he was right to publicly criticize our so-called fast bowlers.

    Our bowling has been massively overrated for many years now and gets too much protection from the fans because the batting is pathetic.

    However, they have lost us plenty of matches and series as well. About time someone calls them out.
    Yeah, but someone should tell him "first remove the splinter from your own eye before reaching for anothers"

    Sarfraz is an insult to the title of national team captain, to professional cricketer, and ultimately lacking in human decency by his theatrics which are there for all to see!!

  14. #174
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  15. #175
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  16. #176
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    Some fans here are so blind lol.

    Told you so that 4 or 5 bowlers and still won't make no difference. This bowling line up is so poor

  17. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah719 View Post
    Of all the 140+ deliveries this series Pakistan has just bowled 6% of them. What a telling picture and statistic.

  18. #178
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    Listen to the experts on TV

    Aziz Cheema, Junaid Khan, Wahab Riaz, Sohail Khan and Tanvir Ahmed are being missed. Suddenly they are world beaters in this format and wrongly out of the team.

    Just admit our fast bowling stock is abysmal.

  19. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by shah_1 View Post
    Listen to the experts on TV

    Aziz Cheema, Junaid Khan, Wahab Riaz, Sohail Khan and Tanvir Ahmed are being missed. Suddenly they are world beaters in this format and wrongly out of the team.

    Just admit our fast bowling stock is abysmal.
    We can whine all day about our fast bowling stock being abysmal, but there's another issue at hand right now. Our pace bowlers are regressing, rather than improving every year. Hasan and Amir for certain are much inferior bowlers this year, as compared to previous years. This is not acceptable, and that's where we are not doing so well at the moment. Pace, fitness and rhythm are something that's firmly under your own control, and when you can't even do the basics right anymore, you are asking for a hammering.

    There has to be a psychological clean-up of these boys. Their attitudes quite literally nose-dive as soon as they establish themselves, when they should be looking to improve and become the best versions of themselves.

  20. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah719 View Post
    All theories of junaids are getting discarded one by one.

  21. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah719 View Post
    Make it 26. Hasan just bowled a 141kph.

  22. #182
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    So, will he blame the bowlers again (if they lose)?

    When will he blame the batsmen and himself, for not scoring enough?


    I can't think of anything else but this machine. I sell here, Sir, what all the world desires to have - POWER

  23. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by shah_1 View Post
    Some fans here are so blind lol.

    Told you so that 4 or 5 bowlers and still won't make no difference. This bowling line up is so poor
    Quote Originally Posted by shah_1 View Post
    Listen to the experts on TV

    Aziz Cheema, Junaid Khan, Wahab Riaz, Sohail Khan and Tanvir Ahmed are being missed. Suddenly they are world beaters in this format and wrongly out of the team.

    Just admit our fast bowling stock is abysmal.
    keyboard expert spotted

    5 bowler is way to go

  24. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barragan View Post
    So, will he blame the bowlers again (if they lose)?

    When will he blame the batsmen and himself, for not scoring enough?
    It's obvious the batsmen are to blame; and that includes him.

    Though, that does not mean he cannot criticize the bowlers for bowling at well below their expected pace.

    Not mutually exclusive, you know?

  25. #185
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    The poor bowlers are even going out there as night watchmen facing bouncers from Steyn on their helmets, to protect our batsmen —- might as well just play specialist night watchmen to see off the new ball and unleash the batsmen against the old ball in easier batting conditions.

  26. #186
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  27. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah719 View Post

    Something is cooking and you can smell it. Sarf has definitely triggered some players with his unethical public shaming of players.

  28. #188
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    It's both bowling and batting. At least Pakistan is not going to lose this match by innings. It expect them to score 175

  29. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake View Post
    It's obvious the batsmen are to blame; and that includes him.

    Though, that does not mean he cannot criticize the bowlers for bowling at well below their expected pace.

    Not mutually exclusive, you know?


    140+ kph or not - bowlers have been doing their job, so this pace stuff is horse dump.

    You want them to bowl like sami and riaz?

    They would have bowled really fast and I'm guessing, you think that would have made a real difference and Pak would have won.


    I can't think of anything else but this machine. I sell here, Sir, what all the world desires to have - POWER

  30. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by shah_1 View Post
    Some fans here are so blind lol.

    Told you so that 4 or 5 bowlers and still won't make no difference. This bowling line up is so poor
    It made a huge difference.

    Faheem alone picked up three wickets.

    He should have played the first two tests.

  31. #191
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    Lol even if 4-5 bowlers aren't bowling express, the presence of an extra 5th specialist bowler eases the workload on everyone else by a big margin and allows the bowlers to bowl with more energy and to sustain it for longer and when the break through comes make the most of it.

  32. #192
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    Pakistani bowlers of today remind me of India bowling attack in the 90s, amazing how times change

  33. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barragan View Post
    140+ kph or not - bowlers have been doing their job, so this pace stuff is horse dump.
    Nope. They haven't been. They put out disappointing performances in the last 2 tests (to concede 431 on that track was pathetic, tbh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Barragan View Post
    You want them to bowl like sami and riaz?
    Nope. Where did I say that? Or are those the only two bowlers to bowl 140 kph+? Also, Amir and Hassan Ali have been hitting 140 (or thereabouts) regularly in the past. Expecting them to do more of the same or better is not too unrealistic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barragan View Post
    They would have bowled really fast and I'm guessing, you think that would have made a real difference and Pak would have won.
    Never said that either. Reread my original post.
    Last edited by Snowflake; 12th January 2019 at 02:24.

  34. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majid Khan View Post
    The poor bowlers are even going out there as night watchmen facing bouncers from Steyn on their helmets, to protect our batsmen —- might as well just play specialist night watchmen to see off the new ball and unleash the batsmen against the old ball in easier batting conditions.
    Great suggestion.

    This will be our next innovation.



  35. #195
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    I know the medium pacers did ok but there's something Un-Pakistani watching the team's bowlers running in and bowling around 130kph most of the day.



  36. #196
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    Bowlers restricting opposition to 200s. Batsmen not even reaching 200s. Sarfaraz blaming the bowlers

    When was the last time you saw a captain of any international Test side being this clueless?

    Our bowlers are regularly bowling teams out within 200s.

    Our batsmen are not even reaching 200s, let alone 300s to take any lead.

    Sarfraz, Asad Shafiq and Azhar are the biggest batting failures last year.

    Is Sarfraz Ahmed trying to distract people from this fact?

    Does he think by putting his bowlers under the bus publicly people will forget his or his buddy's batting and start trashing our bowlers?

    To some extent looks like that happened, as this awaam who used to say pace isn't everything started bashing our bowlers for pace.


    At the end though, bowlers are doing their job even if not at 100% ideal results.

    Batsmen, particularly the trio, are not doing even 30%.

    Stop shaming your bowlers. Shame yourself!

  37. #197
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    All of this is true, but it doesn’t change the fact that our new ball bowling is pathetic and the lack of pace is embarrassing.

    Our bowling is heavily overrated, but it gets too much protection from the fans because the batting is worse.

  38. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    All of this is true, but it doesn’t change the fact that our new ball bowling is pathetic and the lack of pace is embarrassing.

    Our bowling is heavily overrated, but it gets too much protection from the fans because the batting is worse.
    Of course the new ball bowling was not at its best.

    But that doesn't change the fact our bowling put us in good positions consistently, from where any half decent batting would have put up a great competition.

    Pace being down means nothing if bowling is doing its job

  39. #199
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    Sarfraz is the biggest problem. He should be dumped to Antartica.

  40. #200
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    Sarfraz should be asked from all formats, captaincy changed and new keepers introduced.

    The bowlers have been exceptional, time and time again, all last year and now in this series, a place almost none of them have ever played before with no scoreboard pressure.

    There needs t be an inquisition after this

  41. #201
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    Amir is the biggest reason why our bowlers have been poor with the new ball. Out of all the bowlers who have bowled new ball spells in SENA since 2016, Amir has the worst stats. Out of all the bowlers who have bowlers more than 10 new ball spells in SENA Amir has the worst average (59.2), SR (102) and 3rd worst Economy of 2.92. However despite this he continues to be given the new ball and has bowled 15 more new ball spells than any of our other bowlers. Damning stats.

  42. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boi View Post
    Amir is the biggest reason why our bowlers have been poor with the new ball. Out of all the bowlers who have bowled new ball spells in SENA since 2016, Amir has the worst stats. Out of all the bowlers who have bowlers more than 10 new ball spells in SENA Amir has the worst average (59.2), SR (102) and 3rd worst Economy of 2.92. However despite this he continues to be given the new ball and has bowled 15 more new ball spells than any of our other bowlers. Damning stats.
    Excellent post!

    Amir has been a huge let down and i think he deliberately bowls short and doesnt put much effort.


    Sarfi as captain'll lead us to glory.Babar'll be our best odi bat & Haris'll be world class in tests

  43. #203
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    Amazing batting performance after fightback by our bowlers.. This once again proves how pathetic our batting unit is and bowling should be last of our worries.

  44. #204
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    "Our batters scored 185, theirs scored 260." #CaptainObvious


    Have some Sehwag in your life.

  45. #205
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    I think 2 big factors are:

    1) Senior ki izzat (respect the senior) culture of Pakistan cricket. You don't criticize the seniors, they are protected and get to play ahead of the juniors.

    2) He himself has been pretty bad with the bat overall so he can't be critical of others without it being a case of pot calling the kettle black.

    Though I would love to have a captain who will dish it out to the seniors but as things go in Pakistan cricket it will just lead to problems. The youngsters in the bowling line up are just easy pickings.

  46. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake View Post
    Nope. They haven't been. They put out disappointing performances in the last 2 tests (to concede 431 on that track was pathetic, tbh)



    Nope. Where did I say that? Or are those the only two bowlers to bowl 140 kph+? Also, Amir and Hassan Ali have been hitting 140 (or thereabouts) regularly in the past. Expecting them to do more of the same or better is not too unrealistic.



    Never said that either. Reread my original post.
    That 431 score was on a good wicket and the pitch eased out after the first session (why even Sarfraz scored runs), but those pathetic batsmen couldn't even last a session.

    They did very well in the 1st Test and the batsmen let them down, when Pak were in a commanding position.

    Lastly, what do you think bowling faster would have achieved, if not a victory?

    If it isn't going to get you a victory, then what purpose will it serve?

  47. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    "Our batters scored 185, theirs scored 260." #CaptainObvious

    We have 3 ducks in our innings and they have 3 40s. Someone should counter with:

    "Our batsmen score ducks their batsmen score 40+"

  48. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by SarfiBabarHaris View Post
    Excellent post!

    Amir has been a huge let down and i think he deliberately bowls short and doesnt put much effort.
    ??

    To quote brother @Syed1 :


    In the SA series:

    Amir: Average 24, Wickets 8
    Afridi: Average 27, Wickets 5
    Hasan: Average 36, Wickets 3
    Abbas: Average 57, Wickets 2
    Shah: Average 123, Wickets 1



    Surely the highest wicket-taker and lowest averaging bowler is the issue. PP logic ko ikhees toppon ki salami




    (Till last Test. Amir did excellent in this test too).

    You and @Boi really deserve a SALUTE!!! Instead of criticizing our worst captain, you're bashing our best bowler. Lol.

  49. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    ??

    To quote brother @Syed1 :


    In the SA series:

    Amir: Average 24, Wickets 8
    Afridi: Average 27, Wickets 5
    Hasan: Average 36, Wickets 3
    Abbas: Average 57, Wickets 2
    Shah: Average 123, Wickets 1



    Surely the highest wicket-taker and lowest averaging bowler is the issue. PP logic ko ikhees toppon ki salami




    (Till last Test. Amir did excellent in this test too).

    You and @Boi really deserve a SALUTE!!! Instead of criticizing our worst captain, you're bashing our best bowler. Lol.
    We are talking about new ball spell genius. lol

    Since his comeback, when was the last time Amir took 3 wickets with new ball? He rarely pick wickets with new ball and wastes it.


    Sarfi as captain'll lead us to glory.Babar'll be our best odi bat & Haris'll be world class in tests

  50. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by SarfiBabarHaris View Post
    We are talking about new ball spell genius. lol

    Since his comeback, when was the last time Amir took 3 wickets with new ball? He rarely pick wickets with new ball and wastes it.
    LOOL, so now when you couldn't find any argument against our best bowler, you have the audacity to cherry pick and bash the hell out of him in every thread just because 'he didn't take 3 wickets with the new ball' ??

    How unbiased.

    Think with a cool, neutral mind. The only bowler who's taking wickets for us and our best performer, he deserves . your LEAST criticism.

    Bring in your cheemas, Mir Hamzas, other domestic trundler? Never happening, thankfully.

    Haven't seen a single post actually going after Abbas, Hasan, Shaheen. How unbiased. ;)

  51. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    LOOL, so now when you couldn't find any argument against our best bowler, you have the audacity to cherry pick and bash the hell out of him in every thread just because 'he didn't take 3 wickets with the new ball' ??

    How unbiased.

    Think with a cool, neutral mind. The only bowler who's taking wickets for us and our best performer, he deserves . your LEAST criticism.

    Bring in your cheemas, Mir Hamzas, other domestic trundler? Never happening, thankfully.

    Haven't seen a single post actually going after Abbas, Hasan, Shaheen. How unbiased. ;)
    Haha you are funny bro

    Hasan, Abbas and Shaheen atleast look threatening, moves the ball both ways and attack the stumps while 'our leader of the attack' simply goes missing with the new ball. And problem is not his skills rather the effort he puts. You will see him consistently bowling back of a length rubbish and waste new ball. If your premier bowlers dont strike with the new ball its difficult to get opposition out cheaply.

    P.S: I dont dislike him its just that i am frustrated as he can do much better with more effort and heart like CT final.


    Sarfi as captain'll lead us to glory.Babar'll be our best odi bat & Haris'll be world class in tests

  52. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by SarfiBabarHaris View Post
    Haha you are funny bro

    Hasan, Abbas and Shaheen atleast look threatening, moves the ball both ways and attack the stumps while 'our leader of the attack' simply goes missing with the new ball. And problem is not his skills rather the effort he puts. You will see him consistently bowling back of a length rubbish and waste new ball. If your premier bowlers dont strike with the new ball its difficult to get opposition out cheaply.

    P.S: I dont dislike him its just that i am frustrated as he can do much better with more effort and heart like CT final.
    Do not know if he can do better on flat wickets. Bowls cross seam and wide of the stumps. That doesn't help on non-UK wickets.


    "You aren't a failure if you fail, you are a failure if you don't get up to try again" - Imran Khan.

  53. #213
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    I think, Amir has bowled enough wicket taking balls in this series, even with new ball. Had he bowled his opening spells to Imam, Fakhar, Shan, Azhar & Asad in this series, could have got 20+ by now. May be in earlier series different issue, but I don't see much fault in this series - SAF's top 2 scorer are in top 3 and PAK's top 4 has been something special.

  54. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    ??

    To quote brother @Syed1 :


    In the SA series:

    Amir: Average 24, Wickets 8
    Afridi: Average 27, Wickets 5
    Hasan: Average 36, Wickets 3
    Abbas: Average 57, Wickets 2
    Shah: Average 123, Wickets 1



    Surely the highest wicket-taker and lowest averaging bowler is the issue. PP logic ko ikhees toppon ki salami




    (Till last Test. Amir did excellent in this test too).

    You and @Boi really deserve a SALUTE!!! Instead of criticizing our worst captain, you're bashing our best bowler. Lol.
    Captain has been criticised. It was ridiculous of Sarfraz to cover the batsmen’s failures by throwing the bowlers under the bus. But that doesn’t mean the likes of Amir shouldn’t be criticised for their lack of potency, especially in his case with the new ball. I mean he’s been the worst new ball bowler in the world for the last 2 years yet keeps on getting the new cherry for his end of preference. He doesn’t deserve such privileged treatment.

  55. #215
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    None of the Pakistani fast bowlers would get into the South African side. Abbas is rated highly but I'm not convinced. Their fast bowlers are just far too slow. When the game is going away from them they have no one to come in and force the issue. Amir is underperforming. Dude used to bowl in the 140s now he's a trundler. Surely there are players capable of bowling 140ks in Pakistan surely.

  56. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Magician View Post
    None of the Pakistani fast bowlers would get into the South African side. Abbas is rated highly but I'm not convinced. Their fast bowlers are just far too slow. When the game is going away from them they have no one to come in and force the issue. Amir is underperforming. Dude used to bowl in the 140s now he's a trundler. Surely there are players capable of bowling 140ks in Pakistan surely.
    Have you even watched any of the matches in this series or are you just making comments based on scorecards and hearsay? Because if you did you would know Amir has averaged 24. Abbas despite his high average in this series has picked up wickets and was actually denied two in the last test because of Sarfraz's lazy keeping and some dodgy umpiring. Hasan Ali, Faheem and Shaheen have all picked up wickets out of whom Shaheen averages in the 20s and Faheem under 20 in this series.

    Lack of pace is not the reason Pakistan is losing badly on this tour because the bowlers have picked up wickets and put Pakistan in good positions which what there job is. But if the batsmen consistently squander chances to get ahead in the match and can't even bat 60 overs or get South Africa to take the second new ball even once all series then the problem lies most of all with the batting.

  57. #217
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  58. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah719 View Post
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    Average/fastest

    Last year same time.

  59. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah719 View Post
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    That is not bad at all for Hasan and Amir. Most fast bowlers in Tests average around 134-135kph mark.

    Unless you're someone like M Sami, Wahab or Shoaib then you can average more.

    Why was everyone crying including Sarfraz?

    Besides pace isn't everything either.. our awaam wants Sadaf, Mir Hamzas, Ehsan and Abbas who are even slower and mediocre.

  60. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    That is not bad at all for Hasan and Amir. Most fast bowlers in Tests average around 134-135kph mark.

    Unless you're someone like M Sami, Wahab or Shoaib then you can average more.

    Why was everyone crying including Sarfraz?

    Besides pace isn't everything either.. our awaam wants Sadaf, Mir Hamzas, Ehsan and Abbas who are even slower and mediocre.
    not bad at all and if u take bumrah out or add wahab to pak bowling theres not much difference in pace between pak and india. Faheem is quicker than pandya based on that chart lol

  61. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    That is not bad at all for Hasan and Amir. Most fast bowlers in Tests average around 134-135kph mark.

    Unless you're someone like M Sami, Wahab or Shoaib then you can average more.

    Why was everyone crying including Sarfraz?

    Besides pace isn't everything either.. our awaam wants Sadaf, Mir Hamzas, Ehsan and Abbas who are even slower and mediocre.
    A lot to get through in that post of yours

    To keep it simple: In the first Test against England at Lord's, Amir's average pace was around 139kph, Hasan's was around 137kph.


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  62. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah719 View Post
    A lot to get through in that post of yours

    To keep it simple: In the first Test against England at Lord's, Amir's average pace was around 139kph, Hasan's was around 137kph.
    Different conditions, batting also turned up that series and gave bowlers something to defend or bowl at.

    You can still get wickets if you're skilled at mid 130s and that's only the average pace. Amir has been hitting 140s as well.

    And he's our leading wicket taker this series.

    110kph from Abbas is concerning though.

  63. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    Different conditions, batting also turned up that series and gave bowlers something to defend or bowl at.

    You can still get wickets if you're skilled at mid 130s and that's only the average pace. Amir has been hitting 140s as well.

    And he's our leading wicket taker this series.

    110kph from Abbas is concerning though.
    To summarise, the pacers have indeed been low on pace during this Test series.


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  64. #224
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    Well lack of pace aside, why are these guys even unable to bowl a couple of Yorkers at a tailender ?! (Okay that might be unfair to call Rabada a tailender when he looks technically superior to most test openers Pakistan has played in the last 20 years.)

  65. #225
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    You need only guy who can bowl 140 plus on average rest will feed off him hopefully Shaheen once his body develops will be that guy

  66. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by ataullah View Post
    not bad at all and if u take bumrah out or add wahab to pak bowling theres not much difference in pace between pak and india. Faheem is quicker than pandya based on that chart lol
    lol not much difference? The slowest ball bowled by all of our top 3 pacers is faster than the average speed of your fastest bowler

  67. #227
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    The bowling hasn't been good enough in this series. That 4th innings effort in the first test was pathetic.

  68. #228
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    If I was running the PCB, I would as an emergency action organise a national pace and Yorker bowling contest and invite the public , at every district and town level. Keep the goal simple: bowlers get to bowl 5 overs each (30 balls) at nothing but stumps , and bowlers who clock at 140kph and are able to hit the bottom third of the stumps (paint it a different colour) most regularly should progress to the next round.

    Do this in every town and district and finally at provinces level, and then nationally and you will find the cream , with at least a dozen bowlers who could offer you some potential.

    Then take those guys and fast track them with coaching and fitness work, and see what you get out of them.
    Last edited by Majid Khan; 13th January 2019 at 17:21.

  69. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majid Khan View Post
    If I was running the PCB, I would as an emergency action organise a national pace and Yorker bowling contest and invite the public , at every district and town level. Keep the goal simple: bowlers get to bowl 5 overs each (30 balls) at nothing but stumps , and bowlers who clock at 140kph and are able to hit the bottom third of the stumps (paint it a different colour) most regularly should progress to the next round.

    Do this in every town and district and finally at provinces level, and then nationally and you will find the cream , with at least a dozen bowlers who could offer you some potential.

    Then take those guys and fast track them with coaching and fitness work, and see what you get out of them.
    Wow, great idea, but wouldn't be the easiest to implement

  70. #230
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    May be I am nitpicking but did he take a dig again by mentioning about Olivier's speed in the ceremony?

  71. #231
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    That's his own fault! If he played 4 bowlers the those bowlers would have been able to bowl quicker as proved i the last match.

  72. #232
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    If you want bowlers to bowl 140kphs and over consistently which these bowlers are capable of as proven in the past you must play 4 bowlers. Everybody saw what happened when they finally played faheem. TBH I dont want to be too hard on captain and coach but its sack-able offence to not play faheem as 4th bowler in SENA conditions.

  73. #233
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    Most disappointing part of this series was pace of our pacers, difference of 10-15k was very embarrassing, I even stopped watching our bowling, which is generally the reason to watch overseas series...

    Amir is finished, he is dead man walking, looks like knee issues are worse than I imagined. Steyn is 36, he was steaming in and bowling consistently at 145 all the time and look at our guys.

    Abbas is trundlers of highest level, he is no Asif, stop with this non sense. Completely useless bowler.

    Hasan is not test quality, he has no control, nor brain, he better stick to ODI and t20. He is another Wahab (but 10 k slower) who cannot bowl 6 balls at right channel. Hasan has given way too many freebies, most of the time he was bowling non-sense, either half vollies, short and wide or down the leg... Even Faheem was bowling better than him, he atleast had some control.

    Afridi May develop in future(but I doubt, T20 is big distraction, he is not going to put effort into test, their is no money in it). He was not ready to bowl 20 overs a day at lively pace.

    At the end pace is the reason SA won, pace is the reason India won, AUS were blown by 140-143 avg pace of Bhumra, if he was trundling at 133, even the weak batting lineup of AUS would have sailed.

    Our FC and UAE are producing worse bowlers we have ever seen, every year things are getting from bad to worse. T20 in another major distraction...

  74. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by yasir View Post
    Most disappointing part of this series was pace of our pacers, difference of 10-15k was very embarrassing, I even stopped watching our bowling, which is generally the reason to watch overseas series...

    Amir is finished, he is dead man walking, looks like knee issues are worse than I imagined. Steyn is 36, he was steaming in and bowling consistently at 145 all the time and look at our guys.

    Abbas is trundlers of highest level, he is no Asif, stop with this non sense. Completely useless bowler.

    Hasan is not test quality, he has no control, nor brain, he better stick to ODI and t20. He is another Wahab (but 10 k slower) who cannot bowl 6 balls at right channel. Hasan has given way too many freebies, most of the time he was bowling non-sense, either half vollies, short and wide or down the leg... Even Faheem was bowling better than him, he atleast had some control.

    Afridi May develop in future(but I doubt, T20 is big distraction, he is not going to put effort into test, their is no money in it). He was not ready to bowl 20 overs a day at lively pace.

    At the end pace is the reason SA won, pace is the reason India won, AUS were blown by 140-143 avg pace of Bhumra, if he was trundling at 133, even the weak batting lineup of AUS would have sailed.

    Our FC and UAE are producing worse bowlers we have ever seen, every year things are getting from bad to worse. T20 in another major distraction...
    This is wrong all the bowlers who played are capable of bowling 140kphs specially on SA wickets. But playing only 3 bowlers will mean those bowlers will be tired. You play 4 bowlers and then see.

  75. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakhs View Post
    This is wrong all the bowlers who played are capable of bowling 140kphs specially on SA wickets. But playing only 3 bowlers will mean those bowlers will be tired. You play 4 bowlers and then see.
    Abbas is capable of averaging 140kphs?

  76. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by BreadPakoda View Post
    Abbas is capable of averaging 140kphs?
    Abbas is philander type bowler and very good at what he does. The other 3 will bowl more bowls in 140kph range if they are sharing the work load. All teams have understood this point that I am making now, India and England are playing all rounders to make sure they are playing 4 fast/seam bowlers. SA in the absence of a allrounder playing straight 4 fast bowlers. The only time 3 fast bowlers will if you have a GUN spinner who can bowl in SENA conditions for example AUS bowling line up or INDIA with Ashwin only against weak AUS line up.

  77. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakhs View Post
    This is wrong all the bowlers who played are capable of bowling 140kphs specially on SA wickets. But playing only 3 bowlers will mean those bowlers will be tired. You play 4 bowlers and then see.
    Delusional level of Pakistani fans 🙄🙄🙄

    None of the Pakistani bowlers are capable of maintaining avg pace of 140, even in single spell, no matter how many seamers you play, you can play 8 seamers they still going to be in 130s...

    Last rest we played 4 seamers, pace was still too slow...We should not be using word “Fast” with these Bowlers.

  78. #238
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    Sep 2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by yasir View Post
    Delusional level of Pakistani fans ������

    None of the Pakistani bowlers are capable of maintaining avg pace of 140, even in single spell, no matter how many seamers you play, you can play 8 seamers they still going to be in 130s...

    Last rest we played 4 seamers, pace was still too slow...We should not be using word “Fast” with these Bowlers.
    Bro know a little about cricket if you play 4 fast bowlers and share the workload around they will bowl quicker as they did in that last test match. There were definitely more bowls in 140 range in the last test match in the first two despite it being the 3rd test match.

  79. #239
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    Jun 2013
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    Duanne Olivier had 24 of possible 60 wickets to himself, and Pakistan would need four of their bowlers put together to match him . And this was Oliver's debut series

  80. #240
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    Sep 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by TakeshiKovacs View Post
    lol not much difference? The slowest ball bowled by all of our top 3 pacers is faster than the average speed of your fastest bowler
    The number on the left side of the slash is the average speed, not the slowest delivery.


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