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  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    Virat Kohli is a pretty poor captain. Imran? I don't think he's any better than Sarfaraz.
    Misbah all the way?
    Tbf misbah's record shows he was the better captain. Just look at the team misbah had to captain

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    Yet his team holds the Test mace?
    Never said they didn't. Highlighting his success so we should also highlight his failures. 9 losses in a row.

  3. #163
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    People need to realize that a team's record is not dependent on the captain. You can be a very good captain and get whitewashed by a team that has far better players. Captains are judged on how they inspire their players, their tactical acumen, their personal performances as captain and how they carry themselves on and off the pitch. Yes, their W/L record also plays a part but that is not the be all, end up. What their team-mates have to say about them is an important factor that should be taken into account, as is a captain's ability (or lack thereof) to help create legends out of talented players.

    When looking at the above, Imran more or less excelled in all these aspects and helped his team win a World Cup to boot. He's one of the greatest captains of all time and the best from Asia.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronaldo7 View Post
    Misbah all the way?
    Tbf misbah's record shows he was the better captain. Just look at the team misbah had to captain
    Misbah was a good captain and his W/L record is only a small part of that.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  5. #165
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    Statisticaly Virat win ratio > Imran. However a crap poor captain. Looks like a confused fella when his plan doesn't work. I wonder how many of those wins under his belt are because of Dhoni and his mastermind behind the stumps.
    Last edited by Zeeraq; 10th April 2019 at 19:57.

  6. #166
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    Over the last few days, its been interesting to watch people who don't rate IPL, access Kohli's captaincy on the basis of his performance in it.

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dead Ball View Post
    Over the last few days, its been interesting to watch people who don't rate IPL, access Kohli's captaincy on the basis of his performance in it.
    His team's performance is so bad that it is unavoidable.

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by light View Post
    Statisticaly Virat win ratio > Imran. However a crap poor captain. Looks like a confused fella when his plan doesn't work. I wonder how many of those wins under his belt are because of Dhoni and his mastermind behind the stumps.
    Dhoni is no longer part of Test team.
    Last edited by Zeeraq; 10th April 2019 at 19:58.

  9. #169
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    If virat ends his captaincy with a better record than imran(home and away) , he will be a better captain.
    Ipl means zilch.

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by light View Post
    Statisticaly Virat win ratio > Imran. However a crap poor captain. Looks like a confused fella when his plan doesn't work. I wonder how many of those wins under his belt are because of Dhoni and his mastermind behind the stumps.
    Do you know dhoni was continuosly losing series before he retired as captain. He lost a series against Bangladesh, south africa at home, whitewashed in nz etc etc. I wonder where this mastermind was when team india was getting humiliated under his own captaincy.
    Last edited by Zeeraq; 10th April 2019 at 19:58.

  11. #171
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    Has far surpassed him in the format that matters. As for the ODIs, it will be about whether or not he can win a world cup.

  12. #172
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    How is this even a comparison at the moment? For people who are actually making the comparison they obviously did not watch Imran captain.

    Kohli first needs to be the best Indian captain before any comparisons with Imran. He needs to better than Ganguly and Dhoni. At the moment he is not. He inherited an excellent squad but his tactical acumen and squad tinkering is poor.

  13. #173
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    The same people who said that IPL performances do not matter are now using IPL to put down Kohli.

    It appears that good performances in IPL are irrelevant but poor performances are.

    Nevertheless, if Kohli continues to take India to stellar heights in Test cricket and if he can win India a World Cup, his captaincy stint in T20Is as well as IPL will not matter.

    Pretty sure Kohli would prefer to lose in the IPL, rather than taste defeat in a Test match to a minnow like Imran did in Sri Lanka in 1986.

  14. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by logicsupreme View Post
    How is this even a comparison at the moment? For people who are actually making the comparison they obviously did not watch Imran captain.

    Kohli first needs to be the best Indian captain before any comparisons with Imran. He needs to better than Ganguly and Dhoni. At the moment he is not. He inherited an excellent squad but his tactical acumen and squad tinkering is poor.
    Captaincy has multiple facets. It is about player development, changing the mentality of the dressing room for the better and more importantly, winning matches. Someone like Imran made massive impact on the first two fronts - the role that he played in the rise of the likes of Wasim, Waqar and Inzamam etc. cannot be understated.

    Similarly, he also changed the mentality of Pakistan cricket and left them in a prime position to dominate for a decade, but unfortunately, weak leadership prevented the 90's Pakistan team from reaching its full potential. However, with all said and done, he only has 14 Test wins. Yes it was a different era and draws were more common, but that can be used as a justification to a certain point only.

    Someone like Kohli is accumulating wins at a rapid rate. He already stands at 26 wins having captained two less Tests than Imran. He has a very realistic chance of overtaking G. Smith as the most successful Test captain (wins wise) of all time. There is no doubt that statistically, he will leave Imran, Ganguly and Dhoni far behind in terms of wins and overall W/L ratio.

    However, when it comes to player development, he has a lot of catching up to do with Imran, Ganguly and Dhoni, but we need to consider the fact that so far, he has captained a team that has been largely made up of his age group. The likes of Rohit, Rahane, Dhawan, Ashwin, Jadeja, Bhuvneshwar, Shami, Ishant etc. are from the same generation.

    This player development aspect of his captaincy will be tested in the next 5-6 years. At 30, he is now at a stage where he is inching towards the end of his career, and India is slowly transitioning towards the future generation by integrating the likes of Shaw, Pant, Gill, Samson etc. in the team, players who are a generation younger than Kohli.

    The progress that these young players make in the latter half of Kohli's career will determine the player development aspect of his captaincy stint. In terms of impacting the culture cricket, Kohli has already been very influential. He has inspired a generation with his dedication towards fitness and it will serve Indian cricket well long after he is retired.

    At this point in his career, Kohli is perfectly positioned to establish himself as the greatest Asian captain. The only two things that stand in his way are a World Cup trophy and mentorship in the last few years of his captaincy. When you put these things into perspective, this is far from an outlandish comparison.

  15. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeeteshssaxena View Post
    Do you know dhoni was continuosly losing series before he retired as captain. He lost a series against Bangladesh, south africa at home, whitewashed in nz etc etc. I wonder where this mastermind was when team india was getting humiliated under his own captaincy.
    Dhoni as a captain strageticaly < Kholi? Yeah, ok. He had his part of failures no doubt but He lead us for almost a decade. Under him we have won 2 cups, ct and #1 test team. Kholi is a one dimensional captain.

  16. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    The same people who said that IPL performances do not matter are now using IPL to put down Kohli.

    It appears that good performances in IPL are irrelevant but poor performances are.

    Nevertheless, if Kohli continues to take India to stellar heights in Test cricket and if he can win India a World Cup, his captaincy stint in T20Is as well as IPL will not matter.

    Pretty sure Kohli would prefer to lose in the IPL, rather than taste defeat in a Test match to a minnow like Imran did in Sri Lanka in 1986.
    The best players in the world Kohli and AB can't even win their team a single match because they are out-bated by bunch of nobodies. This is what happens when it's easy to spank the bowlers, every Tom, Dick and Harry become world beaters. If the pitches were bowling friendly even a little then you would see quality players out perform others, but that's not the case, it's more about who can hit hard because the bowl is not doing much and is there to be spanked.

    I'm sure Kohli prefers losing 6 IPL matches in a row in front of 1000s of fans who come to support them every match. Mush be why he goes barging into empire rooms and behaves like a child.

  17. #177
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    Imran and Kohli are similar captains who led more by performance than tactical nous on the field. People tend to forget Kohli has gotten odi captaincy just in 2017 and he still has won very impressive number of matches. IPL who cares. He plays in Banglore and his team never had bowling to support him.

  18. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by jadaja View Post
    Imran and Kohli are similar captains who led more by performance than tactical nous on the field. People tend to forget Kohli has gotten odi captaincy just in 2017 and he still has won very impressive number of matches. IPL who cares. He plays in Banglore and his team never had bowling to support him.
    Imran was a far better tactician than Kohli is. The latter has shot his own team in the foot plenty of times with illogical team selections and bowling changes.

    Simply winning a large number of matches does not make one a good captain. A good team can win despite having a poor captain.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  19. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    Imran was a far better tactician than Kohli is. The latter has shot his own team in the foot plenty of times with illogical team selections and bowling changes.

    Simply winning a large number of matches does not make one a good captain. A good team can win despite having a poor captain.
    I don't think Imran had any tactical nous,I don't rate Imran as a great captain either.He got extremely luck with his 1992 win.

    Maybe it was good Karma because he was doing lot of charity for his hospital.Imran is great leade not a great captain.
    Last edited by jadaja; 12th April 2019 at 18:18.

  20. #180
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    The world of cricket has moved on from Imran Khan, and there have been better leaders that have taken his place who have achieved much much more. The fact that us Pakistanis are still focused on Imran's achievements of the 80s is a testament to how much our cricket has regressed that we don't have any leaders to talk about since Imran came into our cricketing history.

    Kohli doesn't need to follow Imran's example to be a leader, he just needs to see across the pitch ; Dhoni who is one of the captaincy greats in modern times. Others he can emulate are Steve Waugh and Ricky Ponting.
    Last edited by waleed88; 12th April 2019 at 20:15.

  21. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by jadaja View Post
    I don't think Imran had any tactical nous,I don't rate Imran as a great captain either.He got extremely luck with his 1992 win.

    Maybe it was good Karma because he was doing lot of charity for his hospital.Imran is great leade not a great captain.
    BTW who are you?

  22. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by jadaja View Post
    I don't think Imran had any tactical nous,I don't rate Imran as a great captain either.He got extremely luck with his 1992 win.

    Maybe it was good Karma because he was doing lot of charity for his hospital.Imran is great leade not a great captain.
    Was the luck due to rain or dropped catches?

    Because South Africa in 92', 03', and 15' along with Australia in 99' also benefited from the same "luck" you speak of.

    Fortune is part of the game and it usually favors the better team of the two on that day.


    "Preventive war is like committing suicide for fear of death" ~ Otto Von Bismarck

  23. #183
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    Anyone who thinks Virat is Imran level of captain is smoking something I'd love to try.

    This from a fan of his captaincy. It's in your face, never say die and gracious in defeat. He is a good captain, just not a great one.

    You will not find his contemporaries or pundits/ex stars praising him for his captaincy. Many reasons:

    1. He didn't take a bad team and turned it around. He didn't take a very good team and turned it into world beaters. He took a very good team from an awesome captain and has kept it very good. Maybe it will change in time, he is a good learner.
    2. India's superiority at home is complete. A big factor behind their consistent no 1 ranking. Nothing wrong with that, Man United also had Old Trafford as their fortress. However, United expected to win away as well - just like the great Australian cricket team did. Overseas India have made progress under Kohli - but they are yet to deliver in SENA. Kohli hasn't changed that despite a very good team at his disposal.
    3. On the field, some tactics and player selections have impacted his results. Didn't beat a weak SA for the taking (I know ABD was there but hey, we are taking a great captain.) Australia, England great chances. Lost recently to Australia at home in ODIs ( did Dhoni ever do that?) IPL is just one of the indicators.

    Imran has been made captain of the greatest teams in history by many cricket giants of past and present. From the time he got captaincy, they knew he belonged. He won against England and India away for the first time in Pakistan's history, got the world cup, almost beat the great West Indies away but for dodgy umpiring and single handedly dragged Pakistan cricket into the modern area. That's a real captain's impact.

    Kohli is not held with same kind of reverence for his captaincy. Too many questions. But he has time on his hands.

  24. #184
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    Indeed.

    Look at his win loss records.

    Way better than Imran.


    Truth is treason in an empire of lies.

  25. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    Indeed.

    Look at his win loss records.

    Way better than Imran.


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    Politics trumps intelligence (pun intended).

  26. #186
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    Imrans Great Captaincy Never Matched By Anyone , How He Handle Rude Javed Miandad Throughout His Career Because He Know How Good He His In Batting And Need To Stick With Him To Win World Cup...

  27. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corridor of Uncertainty View Post
    Anyone who thinks Virat is Imran level of captain is smoking something I'd love to try.

    This from a fan of his captaincy. It's in your face, never say die and gracious in defeat. He is a good captain, just not a great one.

    You will not find his contemporaries or pundits/ex stars praising him for his captaincy. Many reasons:

    1. He didn't take a bad team and turned it around. He didn't take a very good team and turned it into world beaters. He took a very good team from an awesome captain and has kept it very good. Maybe it will change in time, he is a good learner.
    2. India's superiority at home is complete. A big factor behind their consistent no 1 ranking. Nothing wrong with that, Man United also had Old Trafford as their fortress. However, United expected to win away as well - just like the great Australian cricket team did. Overseas India have made progress under Kohli - but they are yet to deliver in SENA. Kohli hasn't changed that despite a very good team at his disposal.
    3. On the field, some tactics and player selections have impacted his results. Didn't beat a weak SA for the taking (I know ABD was there but hey, we are taking a great captain.) Australia, England great chances. Lost recently to Australia at home in ODIs ( did Dhoni ever do that?) IPL is just one of the indicators.

    Imran has been made captain of the greatest teams in history by many cricket giants of past and present. From the time he got captaincy, they knew he belonged. He won against England and India away for the first time in Pakistan's history, got the world cup, almost beat the great West Indies away but for dodgy umpiring and single handedly dragged Pakistan cricket into the modern area. That's a real captain's impact.

    Kohli is not held with same kind of reverence for his captaincy. Too many questions. But he has time on his hands.
    Kohli won a test series in Australia for the first time ever for an Asian country and that alone puts him among the great captains from Asia.

  28. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    Indeed.

    Look at his win loss records.

    Way better than Imran.
    Change your name to troll indian fan... India topped the league by winning 8 of their matches but had one bad day... So what? We won the WC by defeating both parosis 😂

  29. #189
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    This is a joke of a thread. So many on PP these days about India and Kohli as they are the second coming.

    India beat the weakest Australian team of all time. Understand this and you will think twice about creating such threads.

    Imran could bowl, bat, captain, select, scout, improve, inspire, be an example. Tactically he was fine too, otherwise he wouldn't have promoted himself up the order in the final in 1992 and knew when to bring back Wasim to win the match.

    Kohli is a very good batsmen but an average captain. He's not even in the top 3 of Indian captains let alone to be compared to the one of the top 3 all time great captains.
    Looking back I was too generous. Kohli is not captain material, tactically inept and too emtional. He needs to learn of Kane Williamson.

    He will never come close to Imran Khan, ever. Worst thread ever.


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  30. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by mystical man View Post
    Change your name to troll indian fan... India topped the league by winning 8 of their matches but had one bad day... So what? We won the WC by defeating both parosis 😂
    Haha yeah.

  31. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    Indeed.

    Look at his win loss records.

    Way better than Imran.
    Ill give you one example.

    Imran would have picked Shami because of new ball skills esp swining it both way. Imran attacks, takes it to the opposition. On the other hand, Kohli chose Bhuvi because of his death bowling and because he can hold a bat. You have to be brave and attack to win big games, Kohli is scared while Imran reveled in it.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  32. #192
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    What is this thread

  33. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    Ill give you one example.

    Imran would have picked Shami because of new ball skills esp swining it both way. Imran attacks, takes it to the opposition. On the other hand, Kohli chose Bhuvi because of his death bowling and because he can hold a bat. You have to be brave and attack to win big games, Kohli is scared while Imran reveled in it.
    Agreed.

    In fact, even the weakest captain would have picked Shami after his performances.

    Kohli is something else.

  34. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    Agreed.

    In fact, even the weakest captain would have picked Shami after his performances.

    Kohli is something else.
    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    Ill give you one example.

    Imran would have picked Shami because of new ball skills esp swining it both way. Imran attacks, takes it to the opposition. On the other hand, Kohli chose Bhuvi because of his death bowling and because he can hold a bat. You have to be brave and attack to win big games, Kohli is scared while Imran reveled in it.
    Wasim was acting like a spray gun in 92 WC with all those wides and no balls but Imran told him to just bowl quick and attack, forget about no-balls and wide balls. That was the mindset of IK as a captain.


    Raise your words, not voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder... (Rumi)

  35. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebGuru View Post
    Wasim was acting like a spray gun in 92 WC with all those wides and no balls but Imran told him to just bowl quick and attack, forget about no-balls and wide balls. That was the mindset of IK as a captain.
    Yeah he was a great captain no doubt.

    But it was a different era where batsmen had a different mindset.

    If you give that advice to Mohammed Sami or Umesh Yadav, you will likely lose.

    Attack at all costs all sound great when you have the right people but there are a lot of factors in play.

  36. #196
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    Iam so sad that allan border never gets that praise outside australia even though he won the world cup with a weaker team.


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