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  1. #1
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    Ishant Sharma's career renaissance since 2014!

    Ishant has always been a figure of fun in PP and obviously a lot of it has to do with some ridiculous statements and also his 34+ average after 90 Tests.

    But since 2014 he has been pretty much a beast

    .As the following stats show he has been India's go-to bowler in overseas conditions and likely has been strong support at home

    Name:  ishant.jpg
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    I think its time to stop making a mockery of him and instead pay our respects for a career revivial.


    #MPGA

  2. #2
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    Quick stats from the image:

    Overall Average of 28.56
    Away average of 27.33

    Under 30 average everywhere except India (34) and Australia (35)


    #MPGA

  3. #3
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    Could an argument be made that Kohli has handled Indian pacers better than any Indian captain in history.

    Dhoni had the same pace attack

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    Could an argument be made that Kohli has handled Indian pacers better than any Indian captain in history.

    Dhoni had the same pace attack
    perhaps.

    The type of bowlers have changed as well

    Dhoni preferred line and length bowlers who would keep a control on runs and then he would attack with spinners. And while that worked fine in India it was a recipe for disaster abroad

    Kohli uses his fast bowlers as a legit attacking option imo and the type of fast bowlers being inducted has changed as well


    #MPGA

  5. #5
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    He bowls with more control. His average speed is also higher. Earlier, he used to simply bowl without any plans. Now he bowls with a plan.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  6. #6
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    I like the energy he brings with the ball. Enjoy watching him. He is easily one of Indias better bowlers.

  7. #7
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    He is like a cross between a genuinely good bowler and an absolute meme.


    2 possibilities exist: Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are terrifying.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by leatherface58 View Post
    He is like a cross between a genuinely good bowler and an absolute meme.
    But that has changed in the past 3 years he is bowling well and maintaining pressure he is bowling like a work horse relentlessly maintaining the pressure which is heartening to see.

  9. #9
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    On top of that, he finished 2018 with an average of 21.80 and an SR of 49.02 which are phenomenal numbers.

    And he's still just 30.

  10. #10
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    He's bowled with a lot of control on the last two tours. He's cut down on pace a bit I suppose but he gets the most swing with the new ball and once that goes, he bowls a tight line and length. It's actually the trio of Bumrah, Shami and Ishant doing well collectively that has kept us competitive.


    'There's a lady who's sure all that glitters is gold'

  11. #11
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    He has become a Southee level bowler, maybe a tad better in the last 3-4 years.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sachin136 View Post
    On top of that, he finished 2018 with an average of 21.80 and an SR of 49.02 which are phenomenal numbers.

    And he's still just 30.
    He can't be 30!

    He made his debut in '07, by that token he was 19 when he made his test debut which I seriously doubt.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by MP2011 View Post
    He can't be 30!

    He made his debut in '07, by that token he was 19 when he made his test debut which I seriously doubt.
    he was 18 in 2007
    Last edited by Bubby; 8th January 2019 at 10:10.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by MP2011 View Post
    He can't be 30!

    He made his debut in '07, by that token he was 19 when he made his test debut which I seriously doubt.
    He was playing in U19 in 06/07 so he probably was 19 in 2007.

  15. #15
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    Dhoni was a dud captain for pacers. There was a theory that Dhoni dind't like keeping for pacy bowlers. Also he was handing out stupid instructions to Ishant in England after winning one test with bouncer tactic. It backfired big time. Also he overloaded the pacers by loading the batting. He always took care of the batting not bowling. And he blamed the bowling.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnaveen1980 View Post
    Dhoni was a dud captain for pacers. There was a theory that Dhoni dind't like keeping for pacy bowlers. Also he was handing out stupid instructions to Ishant in England after winning one test with bouncer tactic. It backfired big time. Also he overloaded the pacers by loading the batting. He always took care of the batting not bowling. And he blamed the bowling.
    Ishant got injured after the Lord's Test and did not play the next 2. Not sure what instructions by Dhoni caused his injury or was he bowling from beyond the boundary?

  17. #17
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    Zaheer was similarly mediocre in his first half. Could Ishant finish stronger than Zaheer in his second half?

    Odd injuries apart, he's been a solid bowler last 4 years. Could be a reliable workhorse for another 5 fitness permitting. If that happens, he'd be nudging 400 wickets at an average of 31-32. Most Indian fans would gladly take that.
    Last edited by AMSS; 8th January 2019 at 11:33.

  18. #18
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    Ishant has been mocked for years but not anymore. He is mature and finally understood how to ace test cricket.

  19. #19
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    Dhoni was responsible for damaging confidence of Indian pacers overseas always relying on his spin duo to get him wickets. Result was India facing back to back humiliation in England and Australia.

    A gun ODI captain but totally clueless in the longer format.


    Tazimi Sirdar

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by TM Riddle View Post
    Dhoni was responsible for damaging confidence of Indian pacers overseas always relying on his spin duo to get him wickets. Result was India facing back to back humiliation in England and Australia.

    A gun ODI captain but totally clueless in the longer format.
    In short, Dhoni was never made for tests, notwithstanding a few good innings here and there! It was travesty (just like it is currently with him still in India's LoI setup) for him to continue in tests, especially after 8-0 in Eng & Aus. Even when we lost to Eng at home, he was neither dismissed from captaincy nor from test team!

    He has Srini to thank for that!

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by MP2011 View Post
    In short, Dhoni was never made for tests, notwithstanding a few good innings here and there! It was travesty (just like it is currently with him still in India's LoI setup) for him to continue in tests, especially after 8-0 in Eng & Aus. Even when we lost to Eng at home, he was neither dismissed from captaincy nor from test team!

    He has Srini to thank for that!
    What's even worse is that it never seemed like those results affected him much and despite being disgraced overseas in the 2011-12 season, he went around nonchalantly as if nothing had happened. No drastic changes were made, no change in strategy etc. It was business as usual for the captain 'cool'.

    This along with him needlessly dragging his LOI career since last 3 years has irreparably damaged MSD's reputation.
    A true fall from the grace one might say.


    Tazimi Sirdar

  22. #22
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    Completely agree with all of above.

    Dhoni has severely damaged his legacy due to his selfish actions and it is not as of India doesn't have any options to replace him.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by TM Riddle View Post
    Dhoni was responsible for damaging confidence of Indian pacers overseas always relying on his spin duo to get him wickets. Result was India facing back to back humiliation in England and Australia.

    A gun ODI captain but totally clueless in the longer format.
    In ODIs also, he was only good on places where spinners come to play.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by WengerOut View Post
    In ODIs also, he was only good on places where spinners come to play.
    True that but at least in ODIs he has trophies to show.


    Tazimi Sirdar

  25. #25
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    Ishant shocked everyone including me..never thought he will be this much consistent with his line and length

  26. #26
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    Much improved in Tests. He used to be a meme for being bad but he's a good bowler now

  27. #27
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    It’s kinda like Jimmy Anderson after 2008.


    #MPGA

  28. #28
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    Whilst Kohli is not perfect, he must be credited for investing in fast bowlers. They play much better under Kohli.

  29. #29
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    Yeah he's done OK against some mediocre batting but if you actually watch him, and not just look at the numbers, he still looks like a joke. He gets too wide at times, has too many loose deliveries and can't delivery any real swing to save his life.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by barah_admi View Post
    Yeah he's done OK against some mediocre batting but if you actually watch him, and not just look at the numbers, he still looks like a joke. He gets too wide at times, has too many loose deliveries and can't delivery any real swing to save his life.
    Please check out the average swing extracted per test by all(both teams) bowlers in India's tour to SA, England and Australia. You may be surprised with the result.

    Or economy.

    Have you 'actually' watched him bowl recently?

  31. #31
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    He's been absolutely wonderful for India over the past 4 years. Is the fast bowling equivalent of Jadeja, where he keeps plugging away in the channel outside off-stump and is a real workhorse too, with no paucity of skill. Arguably in the top 10 test pacers right now.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by barah_admi View Post
    Yeah he's done OK against some mediocre batting but if you actually watch him, and not just look at the numbers, he still looks like a joke. He gets too wide at times, has too many loose deliveries and can't delivery any real swing to save his life.
    lol at this!

    Forget his stats, have you even seen him bowl over last few years?

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by barah_admi View Post
    Yeah he's done OK against some mediocre batting but if you actually watch him, and not just look at the numbers, he still looks like a joke. He gets too wide at times, has too many loose deliveries and can't delivery any real swing to save his life.
    You're right. Talented amir is better.

  34. #34
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    Very good bowler, particularly away from home. He has time and time been the main guy for India when it comes to taking 20 wickets outside India.

    However, in India, he is not our go to man. Shami and Bumrah will be two obvious picks, although Bumrah is yet to play any test in India and even Umesh is better than Ishant in India.

    However, he has been excellent away from home in the last 5 years with the bowl.

  35. #35
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    His turnaround has been great. I was one who use to mock him but he has found where to bowl in test match cricket and has been backed. The results are there for all to see.

    Should finish as Indian great in the test format.

  36. #36
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    Anyone who saw him in Australia in 2008 could tell that he was a special talent. It was only a matter of finding his true self as a bowler and focusing on his strengths.

    The Indian selectors showed good vision as usual and rightfully persisted with him. Giving up Limited Overs cricket has also benefited him immensely.

  37. #37
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    Really changed his fortune, from a meme to becoming a good and reliable bowler is pretty amazing. Also there must be some credit to Kohli for how Ishant transformed, Dhoni was terrible for fast bowlers.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Anyone who saw him in Australia in 2008 could tell that he was a special talent. It was only a matter of finding his true self as a bowler and focusing on his strengths.

    The Indian selectors showed good vision as usual and rightfully persisted with him. Giving up Limited Overs cricket has also benefited him immensely.
    Cant remember for my 20 year been watching this game that any of our fast bower dis transform himswlf like him.Look at Aamir the way he has regressed and so junaid etc.Ishant would be on the top of my list from pacers playing from asia in last deacde, zameer did well till 2010.

  39. #39
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    Thankfully grandpa retired from tests before it was too late. Hopefully he and his army of grandpas will retire after the disaster that will be 2019 world cup.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rahul1 View Post
    Thankfully grandpa retired from tests before it was too late. Hopefully he and his army of grandpas will retire after the disaster that will be 2019 world cup.
    One of Kohli's biggest failure will be not being able to kick Dhoni out from the team.


  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by barah_admi View Post
    Yeah he's done OK against some mediocre batting but if you actually watch him, and not just look at the numbers, he still looks like a joke. He gets too wide at times, has too many loose deliveries and can't delivery any real swing to save his life.
    Poor analysis as usual - I am not surprised. His line and length have been terrific, that too at a high pace. Averaged 18, 24, 23 in SA (real SA - the one with ABD playing), England, and Australia respectively. Which great batting line up does he have to prove himself against?
    Last edited by BreadPakoda; 11th January 2019 at 11:57.

  42. #42
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    Ishant has really improved and proved many wrong incl. me
    Last edited by Ashmal; 11th January 2019 at 15:51.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by BreadPakoda View Post
    Poor analysis as usual - I am not surprised. His line and length have been terrific, that too at a high pace. Averaged 18, 24, 23 in SA (real SA - the one with ABD playing), England, and Australia respectively. Which great batting line up does he have to prove himself against?
    If SA was "real SA" then surely the Aussies should be called "fake Australia"

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashmal View Post
    If SA was "real SA" then surely the Aussies should be called "fake Australia"
    So which batting line up should Ishant prove himself against?

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by BreadPakoda View Post
    So which batting line up should Ishant prove himself against?
    I am not arguing against Ishant, I accept that he's really improved and proved his doubters wrong.

    I was just pointing out your biased analysis

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashmal View Post
    I am not arguing against Ishant, I accept that he's really improved and proved his doubters wrong.

    I was just pointing out your biased analysis
    It isn't biased. Australia minus Smith and Warner is plagued with the same problem that SA is without ABD. Both are mediocre batting line ups. Anyone disagreeing to it will be a surprise.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by BreadPakoda View Post
    It isn't biased. Australia minus Smith and Warner is plagued with the same problem that SA is without ABD. Both are mediocre batting line ups. Anyone disagreeing to it will be a surprise.
    I agree that both teams' batting has regressed. "Both" is the keyword here...your original post made it seem otherwise.

    Although, I still feel that SA batting wipes the floor with the current depleted Aussies batting.

  48. #48
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    I will credit Kohli's vision and Ishant for playing only test cricket. He is def our no 2 bowler overseas.


    ...

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by BreadPakoda View Post
    Poor analysis as usual - I am not surprised. His line and length have been terrific, that too at a high pace. Averaged 18, 24, 23 in SA (real SA - the one with ABD playing), England, and Australia respectively. Which great batting line up does he have to prove himself against?
    None of them are particularly great batting line ups but some of them are good, my point i s, beyond the numbers he is still far from being world class. He would not walk into any world XI because there are at least 5 better bowlers per side.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by barah_admi View Post
    None of them are particularly great batting line ups but some of them are good, my point i s, beyond the numbers he is still far from being world class. He would not walk into any world XI because there are at least 5 better bowlers per side.
    Would you please do the honors and name 5 bowlers from every team better than him?

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by AamchiMumbaikar View Post
    I will credit Kohli's vision and Ishant for playing only test cricket. He is def our no 2 bowler overseas.
    Yep, Kohli has been a great captain for Indian fast bowlers.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by BreadPakoda View Post
    It isn't biased. Australia minus Smith and Warner is plagued with the same problem that SA is without ABD. Both are mediocre batting line ups. Anyone disagreeing to it will be a surprise.
    That simply is not true.

    Smith has a significantly better record. And add warner to that


    #MPGA

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rahul1 View Post
    Would you please do the honors and name 5 bowlers from every team better than him?
    Sure

    Amir, Hasan, Abbas, Shah and possibly even Shaheen (very early) from Pak

    Steyn, Olivier, Rabada, Philander and Ngidi (very early) from SA

    Starc, Hazlewood, Cummins, Pattinson and Lyon from Aus

    I could go on if you like. I mean, arguments could be made that Ishant, as a whole is better than the young Shaheen and Ngidi but potentially and in terms of their young careers, they are far better than Ishant was.

    Looking further on, bowlers like Anderson, Broad and a few others, so as I said, if there was a world XI being put together, he would not make it ahead of any of these guys, would he? Apart from probably the youngsters but then theres still 11 other bowlers.

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    There used to be a joke a few years ago among our friends. Whenever Ishant took wickets, the news among us would be, 'Ishant Sharma ne bhi wicket liya hain'. That was the level of expectation we had from him.

    Really remarkable how he has performed lately.


    If there is a better batsman than Sachin then he hasnt arrived yet: Viv Richards

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by barah_admi View Post
    Sure

    Amir, Hasan, Abbas, Shah and possibly even Shaheen (very early) from Pak

    Steyn, Olivier, Rabada, Philander and Ngidi (very early) from SA

    Starc, Hazlewood, Cummins, Pattinson and Lyon from Aus

    I could go on if you like. I mean, arguments could be made that Ishant, as a whole is better than the young Shaheen and Ngidi but potentially and in terms of their young careers, they are far better than Ishant was.

    Looking further on, bowlers like Anderson, Broad and a few others, so as I said, if there was a world XI being put together, he would not make it ahead of any of these guys, would he? Apart from probably the youngsters but then theres still 11 other bowlers.
    What are the metrics you are using for these 5 'better' bowlers from each country? I would love to know

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rightarmfast View Post
    What are the metrics you are using for these 5 'better' bowlers from each country? I would love to know
    In the last 3 years,

    Amir SR 70+ and avg of 31+ >> Ishant's SR 57 & Avg of 26

    Since avg and SR, both are drastically better for Amir, he is a better bowler.


    Joke aside, I don't think Ishant is a strike bowler, but he has turned into a very good support bowler and a workhorse. Doesn't bowl too many lose deliveries and keeps the pressure on to support his team.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffet View Post
    In the last 3 years,

    Amir SR 70+ and avg of 31+ >> Ishant's SR 57 & Avg of 26

    Since avg and SR, both are drastically better for Amir, he is a better bowler.


    Joke aside, I don't think Ishant is a strike bowler, but he has turned into a very good support bowler and a workhorse. Doesn't bowl too many lose deliveries and keeps the pressure on to support his team.
    Except Abbas he has better stats than all other Pakistani pacers in the last three years. No wonder after Abbas all Indian pacers are ranked above all other Pakistani pacers.

    http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...s;type=bowling

  58. #58
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    Hes a beast away

    Most successful indian pacer abroad?

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    His career average is now the same as the much vaunted Zaheer Khan!!!


    #MPGA

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by MP2011 View Post
    He can't be 30!

    He made his debut in '07, by that token he was 19 when he made his test debut which I seriously doubt.
    1 year off.. dilli da launda

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    Rags to riches story for Ishant... from being a 40-42+ avg bowler he has come down to 32 , if he can dip below 30 in the next 2 years will be one of the most improved Indian cricket careers of all time

    He is only 31, has at least 4 years left as he plays only test & IPL.


    ...

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by AamchiMumbaikar View Post
    Rags to riches story for Ishant... from being a 40-42+ avg bowler he has come down to 32 , if he can dip below 30 in the next 2 years will be one of the most improved Indian cricket careers of all time

    He is only 31, has at least 4 years left as he plays only test & IPL.
    Comeback of the ages!

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffet View Post
    In the last 3 years,

    Amir SR 70+ and avg of 31+ >> Ishant's SR 57 & Avg of 26

    Since avg and SR, both are drastically better for Amir, he is a better bowler.


    Joke aside, I don't think Ishant is a strike bowler, but he has turned into a very good support bowler and a workhorse. Doesn't bowl too many lose deliveries and keeps the pressure on to support his team.
    yep he is a perfect complementary player. He can't lead like bumrah or shami. Still a world class bowler regardless.

    kind of like hazelwood and starc can never lead like cummins. Former 2 are more of a support cast bowlers. Good ones though.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by barah_admi View Post
    Sure

    Amir, Hasan, Abbas, Shah and possibly even Shaheen (very early) from Pak

    Steyn, Olivier, Rabada, Philander and Ngidi (very early) from SA

    Starc, Hazlewood, Cummins, Pattinson and Lyon from Aus

    I could go on if you like. I mean, arguments could be made that Ishant, as a whole is better than the young Shaheen and Ngidi but potentially and in terms of their young careers, they are far better than Ishant was.

    Looking further on, bowlers like Anderson, Broad and a few others, so as I said, if there was a world XI being put together, he would not make it ahead of any of these guys, would he? Apart from probably the youngsters but then theres still 11 other bowlers.
    Olivier rofl?philander rofl ngidi rofl

    starc in tests lol?
    ishant' s numbers are better than all these guys over the past 4 years including hazelwood who is trash away from SENA countries.

    Olivier trundler is a big fraud. One decent outing vs pakistan. that's it.

    He got smashed around by Lanka in his own country.
    Last edited by tyron_woodley; 23rd November 2019 at 08:47.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JaDed View Post
    1 year off.. dilli da launda
    Yeah, super proud of him. Never expected him to become as good as he is now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MP2011 View Post
    Yeah, super proud of him. Never expected him to become as good as he is now.
    Yeah I meant his age is 1 year off..that's why he was able to make a comeback..


    In cricket, my superhero is Sachin Tendulkar. He has always been my hero.
    -Virat Kohli

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaDed View Post
    Yeah I meant his age is 1 year off..that's why he was able to make a comeback..
    Lol, true.

  68. #68
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    What a turnaround, averaging close to 27 since 2014. 8 out of his 10 5-fers are away from home.

  69. #69
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    Most dramatic career turnaround for a fast bowler.

    Frok being useless in 2014 to one of the best in the world at the age of 31.

    He's come a long way.

    Intellect counts for a lot and you don't have to have PhDs. I watched his press conference yesterday. He's so full of realism. Made all the right points. Looks dead serious and focussed. I didn't realise he was such a thinking bowler.

  70. #70
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    As a pure athletic specimen, Ishant is one of the most impressive fast bowlers India's had in the field. This is one of the biggest reasons he is able to go past Zaheer. Zaheer skill wise was way ahead of Ishant but apart from first few years in cricjet as a youngster he never was an athlete of Ishant's calibre. He couldn't get the best from his body. Kapil and Srinath also were better athletes.

  71. #71
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    Ishant will be known as a better bowler than Zaheer and Srinath.

  72. #72
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    Amazing turnaround. He has gone from being a laughing stock to a respected veteran. I dont feel he is much behind zaheer and srinath when it comes to ranking india's pace bowlers.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by andy0204 View Post
    Ishant will be known as a better bowler than Zaheer and Srinath.
    Anyone who has seen cricket through the 90s knows Srinath is well ahead.

    Didn't have the luxury of hunting in a pace trio which would have taken his test bowling average in mid 20s.

    India never had a proper pace duo let alone a very formidable pace trio whose output in last 3 years is statistically at the level of Windies pace quartet.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by freelance_cricketer View Post
    As a pure athletic specimen, Ishant is one of the most impressive fast bowlers India's had in the field. This is one of the biggest reasons he is able to go past Zaheer. Zaheer skill wise was way ahead of Ishant but apart from first few years in cricjet as a youngster he never was an athlete of Ishant's calibre. He couldn't get the best from his body. Kapil and Srinath also were better athletes.
    Kapil paaji was the best athlete

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by AamchiMumbaikar View Post
    Kapil paaji was the best athlete
    Talking about pacers since 1990s

    Kapil is by far the greatest Indian pacer.

  76. #76
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    Ishant since 2014 has 139 at 26.64. That's really good.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by freelance_cricketer View Post
    Talking about pacers since 1990s

    Kapil is by far the greatest Indian pacer.
    bumrah shami will overtake him though. kapil bumrah shami is the all time india pace xi along with ash/jaddu

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by geraltofrivia View Post
    bumrah shami will overtake him though. kapil bumrah shami is the all time india pace xi along with ash/jaddu
    Just shut up.

    Kapil has 434 test scalps. Bumrah to even be compared with Kapil would have to pick up like 259 wickets at 25

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by freelance_cricketer View Post
    Anyone who has seen cricket through the 90s knows Srinath is well ahead.

    Didn't have the luxury of hunting in a pace trio which would have taken his test bowling average in mid 20s.

    India never had a proper pace duo let alone a very formidable pace trio whose output in last 3 years is statistically at the level of Windies pace quartet.
    Sorry instead of writing better career i wrote better bowler.
    I watched Srinath bowling live.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by freelance_cricketer View Post
    Anyone who has seen cricket through the 90s knows Srinath is well ahead.

    Didn't have the luxury of hunting in a pace trio which would have taken his test bowling average in mid 20s.

    India never had a proper pace duo let alone a very formidable pace trio whose output in last 3 years is statistically at the level of Windies pace quartet.
    This is a very valid point.
    maybe srinath and kapil are our best bowlers. he just had no support.
    However bumrah looks like a once in a generation player.
    shami is like the cream of the crop as well.


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