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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by babajee View Post
    ODIs are his strongest format.
    That's a myth.

    You'll see it in the ODIs. And most importantly over long term, say 10-15 matches.

    Worse than Ahmed Shehzad.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by babajee View Post
    Talat is being set up to fail so Imam keeps his spot.

    @MMHS
    Neither of them should start, and Talat isn't competing with Imam's spot. Imam doesn't deserve a spot in squad, therefore his spot is protected by the other selectors (The pious man leaves the meeting room when they discuss about Imam), doesn't matter who else is picked - he'll go to WC. Actually, now not being in playing XI is beneficiary for him.

  3. #83
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    Shan Masood, worse than even Imam ul Haq in this format.

    Yet he gets selected.

    Cool. Well, at least they're trying him, right now they don't know what to do so just making random selections.


    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    How can you tell that, without playing a single ODI. I know his List A stats are great - but that's made entirely in PAK domestics where Sami, Asad & Ahmed has equally impressive stats, and Kamran has been king in last 4-5 years.

    He has scored lots of runs, so deserves a chance - let him play few games before judging. At current form, I do believe he'll score ODI runs as well, but ODI/T20 isn't his game and he should focus on becoming PAK Test opener for next 10 years, may be Captain as well for few years.
    Correct about Shan here.

    The bad thing is, our opening will remain doomed because we're trying a new guy who we will give 2-3 years (SHan). Ruining our team further.

  4. #84
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    Just to gauge the merit of all the criticism around Imam's selection, can anyone please post his last 10 ODI scores?

  5. #85
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    Talat has never impressed me. Looks like a very limited batsman, especially lacking the power game.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    How can you tell that, without playing a single ODI. I know his List A stats are great - but that's made entirely in PAK domestics where Sami, Asad & Ahmed has equally impressive stats, and Kamran has been king in last 4-5 years.

    He has scored lots of runs, so deserves a chance - let him play few games before judging. At current form, I do believe he'll score ODI runs as well, but ODI/T20 isn't his game and he should focus on becoming PAK Test opener for next 10 years, may be Captain as well for few years.
    Thats just not true. No one really even comes close to Shan's list A stats.

  7. #87
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    Expected squad no surprises, been the same 90% for the last 12 months almost. Thought people would be tired of complaining that there is no Viv, Akram, or Kami in the squad, but here are we are. Another series, another x and y should be in here for us to win.

  8. #88
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    Hopefully one of Hafeez/Malik fail here so Haris can slot right back in against Aus.

    And let's see if Imam/Shan can nail the opening slot. Otherwise, new opener like Amin or Saad needs to be tried in the next series.

    Good to see Junaid dropped. He was mediocre against NZ and would've been a liability in the
    coming months. They need to rest the pacers though. Especially Shaheen and Amir who have played both Tests so far. They better not play every game.

    Okay squad. Just a couple of batting slots (#s 2 & 4) sorted out in next two ODI series, and Pakistan should be ready for the WC.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gotham Cronie View Post
    Harris Sohail (unfit) dropped for Mohammad Rizwan
    Asif Ali (performance) dropped for Hussain Talat
    Junaid Khan (unfit) dropped for Mohammad Amir
    Why is Asif Ali dropped? Did he not hit 80 odd at a SR of 200 in the Manzi T20 league in Sa recently?


    "Don't get attached to anything you're not willing to walk out in 30 seconds" Neil McCauley, Heat

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by AFM View Post


    Inzi seems to be talking directly to us at PP
    This is good by Inzi.

    Makes it very transparent.


    Have some Sehwag in your life.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    Shan Masood, worse than even Imam ul Haq in this format.

    Yet he gets selected.

    Cool. Well, at least they're trying him, right now they don't know what to do so just making random selections.




    Correct about Shan here.

    The bad thing is, our opening will remain doomed because we're trying a new guy who we will give 2-3 years (SHan). Ruining our team further.
    Things will change after 2019 WC - trust me. After initial hick-ups, Mani has taken few bold steps, but his appointment was too close to WC; therefore my hunch is he has decided to sacrifice one WC to commission the purge.

    Think it this way - no mater who is picked or appointed Captain, don't think PAK's ODI fortune is going to change much in next 5-6 months; there is just not enough quality players and youngsters are not given any chance to build experience/confidence (again, that ZIM series comes to mind), or wrong players are given chances. In this situation, if some of the senior players heavily backed by media, former players, regional associations are dropped and team result remains at similar level, PCB'll be forced to bring those players back ..... after WC.

    Best alternate is to allow this rotting up to to the core and then throw entire basket to bin. PAK's next ODI assignment after WC is probably sometimes in SEP 2019 - I can bet, we'll see at most 7-8 players from this squad that time. This should have started after 2017 CT - then by now we could have seen a far better ODI squad, as 2 years under Arthur could have developed few youngsters better than obsolete oldies.
    Last edited by MMHS; 9th January 2019 at 21:15.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by ameemlutfi View Post
    Thats just not true. No one really even comes close to Shan's list A stats.
    Which isn't true? I know Shan's List A average is 59. Sami's average is ~50, Ahmed's close to 50, Asad's probably over 50. What you missed is looking at their List A career, which is significantly discounted for ODI stats (which are also List A). Shan hasn't played a single ODI, hence his entire List A stats are from domestics & against A teams. Take out Asad's 25/60 stats of 50+ ODI from his List A career, or same for Sami (probably 20/70 ODI stats), and for Ahmed - then compare their List A vs Shan's List A for a better comparison.

  13. #93
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    OP should edit title and write Inzamam announce 16-member instead of Pakistan. It has nothing to do with Pakistan or its grass-root system. All the TTFs have been filled into the side.
    No surprise apart from Asif Ali. Seems Arthur is looking more powerless infront of Inzamam. So it is not even 50% fault of the team management if Pakistan team fails and loses.For me the 2 culprits are Ehsan Mani and Imran Khan. Inzamam is doing what he is suppose to do. Mani, Imran both promised change and clean-up of the system. Their backing of Inzamam and other cronies in PCB is shameful and dangerous. I fear Inzi's son will be part of U19 team soon.

    Squad is an indication if Fakhar continues to fail Pakistan won't reach 250 on a good batting pitch in the SA odi series. Imam there to ensure Pakistan team will drop a lot of catches also.
    Last edited by Khwaja78; 9th January 2019 at 21:25.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by EliteCynical View Post
    Why is Asif Ali dropped? Did he not hit 80 odd at a SR of 200 in the Manzi T20 league in Sa recently?
    This squad is for the ODI series.

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspin View Post
    He came in at 5 but remember Pakistan only lost 3 wickets inside 40 overs and he played the finisher role superbly that day.

    I don't see any other players in the squad who have any proven hitting ability to bat at 6.
    Be that as it may, I don't understand why after 16 years and 203 ODIs, PPers still put together fantasy XIs with him at 6.

    It's

    not

    going

    to

    happen.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gotham Cronie View Post
    Be that as it may, I don't understand why after 16 years and 203 ODIs, PPers still put together fantasy XIs with him at 6.

    It's

    not

    going

    to

    happen.
    Ok so where do you want him to bat in the XI?

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by ameemlutfi View Post
    Thats just not true. No one really even comes close to Shan's list A stats.
    Just to give a comparison, in 80 odd List A innings, Shan has scored around 4K runs @ 56.52/82 stats. Same for the 3 I mentioned, excluding their ODI stats are

    Ahmed: 3,311 @57.09/97.84 (ODI: 2,605 @32.56/72.08)
    Sami: 3,447 @50.69/86.78 (78 @19.50/66.67)
    Asad: 3,108 @58.64/89.98 (1,336 @24.74/67.51 ... and he managed to play 60 ODI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

    Azhar's List A excluding ODI stats are like 3,982 runs @ 55.31 (SR will be similar to Shan as well)

    Not saying Shan will be flop, because he is in red hot form and has improved his overall batting package considerably, but using domestic stats to forecast success in Internationals is risky, more so with PAK's domestic stats. In any case, Shan is much better than Imam whose domestic stats minus bashing of ZIM reserves stands at like 30/70.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    Shan Masood, worse than even Imam ul Haq in this format.
    .
    Based on what?

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    Just to give a comparison, in 80 odd List A innings, Shan has scored around 4K runs @ 56.52/82 stats. Same for the 3 I mentioned, excluding their ODI stats are

    Ahmed: 3,311 @57.09/97.84 (ODI: 2,605 @32.56/72.08)
    Sami: 3,447 @50.69/86.78 (78 @19.50/66.67)
    Asad: 3,108 @58.64/89.98 (1,336 @24.74/67.51 ... and he managed to play 60 ODI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

    Azhar's List A excluding ODI stats are like 3,982 runs @ 55.31 (SR will be similar to Shan as well)

    Not saying Shan will be flop, because he is in red hot form and has improved his overall batting package considerably, but using domestic stats to forecast success in Internationals is risky, more so with PAK's domestic stats. In any case, Shan is much better than Imam whose domestic stats minus bashing of ZIM reserves stands at like 30/70.
    Azhar would have been a great addition in the side before 300 became par.

    Ahmed, tried and tested = failed.
    Asad, tried and tested = failed.

    Shan deserves a chance based on his numbers, he may or may not fail... We will have to wait and see.

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by EliteCynical View Post
    Why is Asif Ali dropped? Did he not hit 80 odd at a SR of 200 in the Manzi T20 league in Sa recently?
    And in 11 matches that's the only time he scored.

  21. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspin View Post
    Ok so where do you want him to bat in the XI?
    Ideally, 12.

    But if he has to be in the team, 6 would be ideal.

    But after 16 years and over 200 ODIs, give it a rest. It's not going to happen.

  22. #102
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    A middle order of Sarfraz, Hafeez, and Malik is asking for trouble. Happy to see Hussain Talat in the squad. Not surprised with the rest of the squad. Would have liked to have seen a specialist spinner in the squad.

  23. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chokli View Post
    Azhar would have been a great addition in the side before 300 became par.

    Ahmed, tried and tested = failed.
    Asad, tried and tested = failed.

    Shan deserves a chance based on his numbers, he may or may not fail... We will have to wait and see.
    Azhar won't have been an ODI batsman even in 150 per days or when ODI was played for 60 overs, for 245/9 in 60 overs being matching winning.

    The reason is his batting capability, not batting approach - he is extremely limited with his shot making ability and any decent International side will choke his scoring areas. Biggest mistake you are making here is cascading his 38/72 stats (mostly made against substandard attacks) into a 220 per era and thinking that in 80s & 90s he would have been great. NO, it doesn't work that way - he would have been even more pathetic that time, when bowlers had something at their favor to bite back - my hunch is his 38/72 stats would have been slashed to straight half - 20/40 level.

    It's not that he plays selfishly or playing a particular tactical role, rather it's because of his limitation as a batsman - absolutely no back-foot game, not much in off side either, nothing against short ball at all and one of the worst players even from PAK when it comes to rotate strike. And, he can't loft spinners much like Malik, neither can sweep or deflect them like Javed to keep scorecard moving - blunt dead bat. If he had any shot making ability, after batting for 3 hours, he won't have tried to chase 16 runs in 16 overs with No. 11 at other end - couple of shots should have been enough for a No. 3, batting into 60s.

    If you watch his last few games, almost every boundary has come through leg side and even in his hay days, he had to bat till Tea to hit his first boundary through covers - ODI never gave that much time even in 1970s. To give a comparison, take 5 TOP class batsmen of that era with every shots in books - Gooch 38/60, Grineedge 45/60, Haynes 42/65, Turner 48/60, Border 32/70 ..... imagine Azhar with his range of shots what could have achieved with longer boundaries, slower out field, inferior bat and much more penetrative attacks without Power play (Now, at least 5 fielders in circle for 40 overs). Mike Atherton left ODI to focus on his Test career (& a bad back didn't help), so did Cook, but this guy Azhar is totally different beast - he was dropped from ODI after 2 horrible innings in IND (2012-13), and somehow PCB thought 2 years later he was the guy to Captain ODI team!!!!

    Gladly, PCB has found their successor of Ahar Ali in Imam, so this farce will continue.

  24. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    Azhar won't have been an ODI batsman even in 150 per days or when ODI was played for 60 overs, for 245/9 in 60 overs being matching winning.

    The reason is his batting capability, not batting approach - he is extremely limited with his shot making ability and any decent International side will choke his scoring areas. Biggest mistake you are making here is cascading his 38/72 stats (mostly made against substandard attacks) into a 220 per era and thinking that in 80s & 90s he would have been great. NO, it doesn't work that way - he would have been even more pathetic that time, when bowlers had something at their favor to bite back - my hunch is his 38/72 stats would have been slashed to straight half - 20/40 level.

    It's not that he plays selfishly or playing a particular tactical role, rather it's because of his limitation as a batsman - absolutely no back-foot game, not much in off side either, nothing against short ball at all and one of the worst players even from PAK when it comes to rotate strike. And, he can't loft spinners much like Malik, neither can sweep or deflect them like Javed to keep scorecard moving - blunt dead bat. If he had any shot making ability, after batting for 3 hours, he won't have tried to chase 16 runs in 16 overs with No. 11 at other end - couple of shots should have been enough for a No. 3, batting into 60s.

    If you watch his last few games, almost every boundary has come through leg side and even in his hay days, he had to bat till Tea to hit his first boundary through covers - ODI never gave that much time even in 1970s. To give a comparison, take 5 TOP class batsmen of that era with every shots in books - Gooch 38/60, Grineedge 45/60, Haynes 42/65, Turner 48/60, Border 32/70 ..... imagine Azhar with his range of shots what could have achieved with longer boundaries, slower out field, inferior bat and much more penetrative attacks without Power play (Now, at least 5 fielders in circle for 40 overs). Mike Atherton left ODI to focus on his Test career (& a bad back didn't help), so did Cook, but this guy Azhar is totally different beast - he was dropped from ODI after 2 horrible innings in IND (2012-13), and somehow PCB thought 2 years later he was the guy to Captain ODI team!!!!

    Gladly, PCB has found their successor of Ahar Ali in Imam, so this farce will continue.
    3 of top 4 for Pak. is settled though. Fakhar, Babar and Harris. Need one more decent player. I think Umar Amin, Saad Ali and Saud Shakeel should each get chances to make that spot their own. Ideally it should've been the Zim. series (when Imam played), but now it has to be the Australia series in UAE. The 5 ODIs in England should be played with the same squad at WC.

  25. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    Azhar won't have been an ODI batsman even in 150 per days or when ODI was played for 60 overs, for 245/9 in 60 overs being matching winning.
    That's not true at all. His record is pretty decent if the par scores were around 250.

    The reason is his batting capability, not batting approach - he is extremely limited with his shot making ability and any decent International side will choke his scoring areas. Biggest mistake you are making here is cascading his 38/72 stats (mostly made against substandard attacks) into a 220 per era and thinking that in 80s & 90s he would have been great. NO, it doesn't work that way - he would have been even more pathetic that time, when bowlers had something at their favor to bite back - my hunch is his 38/72 stats would have been slashed to straight half - 20/40 level.
    I'm talking about before 2012ish.

    If he had any shot making ability, after batting for 3 hours, he won't have tried to chase 16 runs in 16 overs with No. 11 at other end - couple of shots should have been enough for a No. 3, batting into 60s.
    He wouldn't win matches on his own but he'd definitely contribute a lot to the win... And your basing this off of Tests.

    If you watch his last few games, almost every boundary has come through leg side and even in his hay days, he had to bat till Tea to hit his first boundary through covers - ODI never gave that much time even in 1970s. To give a comparison, take 5 TOP class batsmen of that era with every shots in books - Gooch 38/60, Grineedge 45/60, Haynes 42/65, Turner 48/60, Border 32/70 ..... imagine Azhar with his range of shots what could have achieved with longer boundaries, slower out field, inferior bat and much more penetrative attacks without Power play (Now, at least 5 fielders in circle for 40 overs). Mike Atherton left ODI to focus on his Test career (& a bad back didn't help), so did Cook, but this guy Azhar is totally different beast - he was dropped from ODI after 2 horrible innings in IND (2012-13), and somehow PCB thought 2 years later he was the guy to Captain ODI team!!!!

    Gladly, PCB has found their successor of Ahar Ali in Imam, so this farce will continue.
    Again talking about Test matches.

    The innings of 9 off 34 balls versus India was bad but it helped take the shine off the ball, Bhuvi was making the ball talk.

  26. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rayyman View Post
    3 of top 4 for Pak. is settled though. Fakhar, Babar and Harris. Need one more decent player. I think Umar Amin, Saad Ali and Saud Shakeel should each get chances to make that spot their own. Ideally it should've been the Zim. series (when Imam played), but now it has to be the Australia series in UAE. The 5 ODIs in England should be played with the same squad at WC.
    lol umar amin, seriously?

  27. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    Which isn't true? I know Shan's List A average is 59. Sami's average is ~50, Ahmed's close to 50, Asad's probably over 50. What you missed is looking at their List A career, which is significantly discounted for ODI stats (which are also List A). Shan hasn't played a single ODI, hence his entire List A stats are from domestics & against A teams. Take out Asad's 25/60 stats of 50+ ODI from his List A career, or same for Sami (probably 20/70 ODI stats), and for Ahmed - then compare their List A vs Shan's List A for a better comparison.
    Just the way he batted in the tests, I think he will do even better in ODIs against a kookaburra ball that does not move an inch on flat tracks. That combined with his list A stats should mean that he should atleast be given next 10 ODIs to prove himself. His shots were very impressive and I think he will do well as opener. . Better than fakhar anyway.

  28. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    Just to give a comparison, in 80 odd List A innings, Shan has scored around 4K runs @ 56.52/82 stats. Same for the 3 I mentioned, excluding their ODI stats are

    Ahmed: 3,311 @57.09/97.84 (ODI: 2,605 @32.56/72.08)
    Sami: 3,447 @50.69/86.78 (78 @19.50/66.67)
    Asad: 3,108 @58.64/89.98 (1,336 @24.74/67.51 ... and he managed to play 60 ODI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

    Azhar's List A excluding ODI stats are like 3,982 runs @ 55.31 (SR will be similar to Shan as well)

    Not saying Shan will be flop, because he is in red hot form and has improved his overall batting package considerably, but using domestic stats to forecast success in Internationals is risky, more so with PAK's domestic stats. In any case, Shan is much better than Imam whose domestic stats minus bashing of ZIM reserves stands at like 30/70.
    You forgot Sohaib Maqsood. He averaged 50+ in list A but had a hard time in international cricket.

    Sharjeel Khan probably the only one who showed he is worth the 50+ in list A.


    "You aren't a failure if you fail, you are a failure if you don't get up to try again" - Imran Khan.

  29. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gotham Cronie View Post
    This squad is for the ODI series.
    I understand, i thought he had a case. May be I dont know enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chokli View Post
    And in 11 matches that's the only time he scored.
    Ok, Thanks. So you mean it was justified dropping him then?


    "Don't get attached to anything you're not willing to walk out in 30 seconds" Neil McCauley, Heat

  30. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince of Pakistan View Post
    Sharjeel Khan probably the only one who showed he is worth the 50+ in list A.
    Fakhar Zaman as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chokli View Post
    That's not true at all. His record is pretty decent if the par scores were around 250.



    I'm talking about before 2012ish.



    He wouldn't win matches on his own but he'd definitely contribute a lot to the win... And your basing this off of Tests.



    Again talking about Test matches.

    The innings of 9 off 34 balls versus India was bad but it helped take the shine off the ball, Bhuvi was making the ball talk.
    I was giving you real life example. No, his scores are not decent in any consideration - it's not you who set the per, rather the match condition sets the per. He scored couple of hundreds against us in 2015, when PAK scored around 250 in total - BD chased both games inside 40 overs (1st one won by 80 odd) - you can't say that bowlers blew a per score. He scored decent against ZIM in PAK 2015 - first one ZIM lost by 35 chasing 370 odd, last one they would have comfortably chased 290 had rain not washed out the game after few over of ZIM innings. Most of the times, Azhar's big innings has ended in loss for a reason, because he is always well below the per for the course - that might not affect Test matches with unlimited time in 1st innings, but not in ODIs .......and not in 4th innings of Test matches when you are chasing something - you can check his 4th innings stats.

    And, his 2 innings in IND were absolute jokes, when conditions were 250 per. The examples I gave are not from Test matches , I have given stats for ODI for all 5 players - didn't check CI, so 1-2 numbers might differ little. Yes, both GGs had an ODI Strike Rate of 60ish in 1970s & 80s - compared to that Azhar's 72 is like Ferrari indeed. Blunting new ball isn't the only KPI for a top order, particularly in games where balls are counted. In that regard, Saqlin had a very good defense - could have easily passed couple of hours at 3, with dead bat.

    What frustrates me is that in PAK, defensive batting is considered as technique and commitment while players getting out trying to score are considered reckless - often set to lower down the order. Obviously, I am not saying that batsman should bat like Asif Ali, but the key is shot making ability, rather than dead bat defense. For that, despite all his criticism, I actually always like Asad because once set, he looks like a proper batsman who can match anyone with his driving ranges. And, that's the reason, even 4 years back I backed Babar to be successful (even in Test), because he can play proper shots and has great balance to play shots on wither feet. Amin would have been definitely a far better ODI player had he been backed like few others - most notably Hafeez.

    In recent times, the change (improvement) we see in Shan is not because his defense has improved, rather he has added lost of shots in his game. Only thing he might had before was his straight drives, now he is playing pulls & back-foot punches as well; can add spin play and cover drives to be more complete. His defensive technique is still poor - got out twice in 60s when he should have survived those balls after 3 hours in middle, but he has improved in his shot making ability, in his shot selection - neither can be said for Azhar after 8-9 years at highest level, his only utility is a Test opener to nullify the new ball and tire up the opening pacers. That would have been the case even 35 years back.

  32. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikhil_cric View Post
    Just the way he batted in the tests, I think he will do even better in ODIs against a kookaburra ball that does not move an inch on flat tracks. That combined with his list A stats should mean that he should atleast be given next 10 ODIs to prove himself. His shots were very impressive and I think he will do well as opener. . Better than fakhar anyway.
    Indeed, I explained that in following posts. Shan is scoring runs by playing shots (not as a factor of time in middle), he should do well in ODI as well. He is in great form, and PAK should cash on that - however, I am still not sure if he or Imam will play in 1st ODI .

  33. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    Indeed, I explained that in following posts. Shan is scoring runs by playing shots (not as a factor of time in middle), he should do well in ODI as well. He is in great form, and PAK should cash on that - however, I am still not sure if he or Imam will play in 1st ODI .
    Yeah this will be s problem for PAK. Imam us way too slow for a top 3 batsman in ODI cricket today.

  34. #114
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    I'm a little surprised that Asif is dropped. Pressure on Faheem and his power hitting. Otherwise decent squad. The middle order is most likely going to have both Malik and Hafeez, so that'll be... great.

  35. #115
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    Willing to bet we will see a top 6 of Fakhar, Imam, Babar, Hafeez, Malik and Sarfraz in the first ODI.

  36. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by EliteCynical View Post

    Ok, Thanks. So you mean it was justified dropping him then?
    exactly, i mean if he scored heavily in the league then why not have him in the side?

    but he didn't do anything noteworthy.

  37. #117
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    Unless the pitches are flat the batsmen will struggle on wickets with bounce Hafeez and Malik will go missing as usual it'll be up to Babar and possibly Fakhar if the wickets is good for batting to make the telling contributions.

  38. #118
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    hafeez has played some good knocks in t20s versus south africa

  39. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by babajee View Post
    Willing to bet we will see a top 6 of Fakhar, Imam, Babar, Hafeez, Malik and Sarfraz in the first ODI.
    The reason we always start poorly.

    We always need a few defeats to get the team right. Would be a blunder to not capitalize on Shan Masood's form.


    "You aren't a failure if you fail, you are a failure if you don't get up to try again" - Imran Khan.

  40. #120
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    Decent squad

    I'd probably go with
    1. Fakhar
    2. Babar
    3. Masood
    4. Rizwan
    5. Sarfraz
    6. Malik
    7. Imad
    8. Shadab
    9. Hasan
    10. Amir
    11. Shaheen

    Want Rizwan and Shan to be selected, both have been doing insane in domestics/Pak A and Shan especially in good form. Feel bad for dropping Imam as he does average 60 and didn't have as bad an asia cup as others but his recent form doesn't look great and he's just too similar a player, left handed top order accumulator to Shan and when he comes back, Haris.


  41. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan24 View Post
    Some tough calls there.

    Hard on Junaid Khan, he was the 2nd most experienced bowler after Amir but he only played one match against NZ due to fitness issues.

    Asif Ali played some good knocks in the SA T20 league so knew the conditions but cant argue much.
    Hello, the team needs balance. Who is out hitter for the end of the innings. This role should go to Asif and faheem.
    Nobody has a better striker rate than Asif Ali in international cricket since he debuted. He has 30+ scores in 8 innings. He needed to be given rope because we don't have ANY1 like him in the line up. We have accumulators in Shan Babar Malik As, so why do we need Hussain talat?
    It's a joke selection


    If you always do what you have always done, you will always get what you always got #improve

  42. #122
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    At least we will have Shan fakhar and Babaras the top 3. Look forward to that


    If you always do what you have always done, you will always get what you always got #improve

  43. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake View Post
    Just to gauge the merit of all the criticism around Imam's selection, can anyone please post his last 10 ODI scores?
    I can give last 10 but that run of last 10 games would start midway through Zimbabwe series so it makes more sense to just post his scores from that Zimbabwe series onwards rather than just the last 10 games


    128 (134) vs Zimbabwe
    44 (51) vs Zimbabwe
    0 (1) vs Zimbabwe
    113 (122) vs Zimbabwe
    110 (105) vs Zimbabwe
    50* (69) vs Hong Kong
    2 (7) vs India
    80 (104) vs Afghanistan
    10 (20) vs India
    83 (105) vs Bangladesh
    34 (46) vs NZ
    16* (34) vs NZ (He retired not out as he got hit by a bouncer)


    So it's not like he's been flopping hugely.

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    My team for the 1st game:

    1) Fakhar Zaman - obvious pick in this format regardless of Test form
    2) Shan Masood - massively improved player
    3) Babar Azam
    4) Mohammad Hafeez - inevitable he will start this series
    5) Shoaib Malik - same for him, he's not been in that good form recently
    6) Sarfaraz Ahmed (C) (WK)
    7) Shadab Khan - pitches in SA aren't great for spinners but you still need to have 1 frontline spinner+his batting and fielding is decent
    8) Faheem Ashraf - all rounder, great for team balance
    9) Hasan Ali - was struggling in ODI's recently, has to find form, also capable of scoring some runs
    10) Usman Shinwari - looking good in BBL, he should play ahead of Amir who has been useless in ODI's, but we all know Amir will play.
    11) Shaheen Shah

    Pretty balanced team, plenty of bowling options and batsmen till 8, with Hasan Ali a decent number 9 as well.

  45. #125
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    This was our best chance to try Abbass in ODIs

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    Not that surprising of a squad really, quite surprised and somewhat happy about Hussian Talat in the team. Still think we are somewhat light in the pace bowling department. Would like another Right arm pacer there. Also another allrounder potentially Aamir Yamin or Hammad Azam. Middle order of Hafeez and Malik is really upsetting to see continue. Overall I am not so hopefully of a ODI series win for Pakistan.

  47. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by hadi123 View Post
    I can give last 10 but that run of last 10 games would start midway through Zimbabwe series so it makes more sense to just post his scores from that Zimbabwe series onwards rather than just the last 10 games


    128 (134) vs Zimbabwe
    44 (51) vs Zimbabwe
    0 (1) vs Zimbabwe
    113 (122) vs Zimbabwe
    110 (105) vs Zimbabwe
    50* (69) vs Hong Kong
    2 (7) vs India
    80 (104) vs Afghanistan
    10 (20) vs India
    83 (105) vs Bangladesh
    34 (46) vs NZ
    16* (34) vs NZ (He retired not out as he got hit by a bouncer)


    So it's not like he's been flopping hugely.
    He has played 16 ODI in total. These are his first 4 innings -

    100 (125) vs Srilanka
    2 (3) vs Srilanka
    45* (64) vs Srilanka
    2 (11) vs New Zealand

    Which makes his stats against IND & NZ

    Games/Innings 5, 64 runs at 16.00/54.23 stats with highest being 34 (46) at Abu Dhabi.

  48. #128
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    Should’ve forced Hafeez out of retirement to play tests here .... pcb Missed a trick & the professor is back 🤦🏽*♂️

  49. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    He has played 16 ODI in total. These are his first 4 innings -

    100 (125) vs Srilanka
    2 (3) vs Srilanka
    45* (64) vs Srilanka
    2 (11) vs New Zealand

    Which makes his stats against IND & NZ

    Games/Innings 5, 64 runs at 16.00/54.23 stats with highest being 34 (46) at Abu Dhabi.
    has there ever been a batsmen who better exemplifies a minnow basher

  50. #130
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    Nice to see Talat being given a shot, I think he can be a solid player in ODI, much more so than in T20's.

    It's disappointing to see Saad Ali not being given the same chances, he has a better track record in List A and really deserves a shot and I'd have liked to see him given a shot over Hafeez who frankly does not a deserve a spot on this team, especially not in South Africa.

    Hafeez career in SA: 16.88 average, 1 50's in 9 innings. Last time Hafeez had a century? Over 3 years ago in November of 2015 vs England in UAE.

    I think overall, Hafeez has had a pretty good career and has had moments of greatness but its extremely disappointing to see seniors continuing to occupying undeserving spots that should be going to youngsters who are much more deserving of it.

  51. #131
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    This squad will lose 5 out of 5 games against any top side.

  52. #132
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    Disappointed to see Asif Ali out of the squad.

    He's not set the world alight but he is eons ahead of the next hitter in Pakistan. In fact he is probably the only hitter in the country.

    If he is a hack, then what are the coaches doing? If he has faulty decision making with respect to his shots, then again what are the coaches being paid for?

    What essentially has been done here is that Asif Ali has been dropped in the middle of the ocean and asked to come back to the shore himself.

    A middle to late order of Talat, Sarfraz, Imad, Shadab will not score 90 runs in the last 10 overs. You need Asif Ali in there somehow.

    And I have no doubt with the incompetence of the selectors and the first team coaches, Asif Ali would be inducted on the eve of the World Cup and asked to perform miracles.

    Why not have him in the team in the first place and give him that extended run so that he becomes the finisher that the team desperately needs in the World Cup.

  53. #133
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    Is Shinwari a better pick than Junaid Khan? Junaid Khan had a good ICCT in England - he should be given a chance to make a case of WC.

    Will Shinwari get any opportunity again SA? Does that mean he makes it in for WC squad?


    The man on top of the mountain didn’t fall there — Vince Lombardi

  54. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by shariqnoor View Post
    And I have no doubt with the incompetence of the selectors and the first team coaches, Asif Ali would be inducted on the eve of the World Cup and asked to perform miracles.

    Why not have him in the team in the first place and give him that extended run so that he becomes the finisher that the team desperately needs in the World Cup.
    very true.


    The man on top of the mountain didn’t fall there — Vince Lombardi

  55. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by babajee View Post
    Willing to bet we will see a top 6 of Fakhar, Imam, Babar, Hafeez, Malik and Sarfraz in the first ODI.
    it will be blunder to drop shan.
    i bet micky and sarfraz will not risk it to drop an in form shan

  56. #136
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    11 1 think they are going to play

    Shan
    Fakhar
    Babar
    Malik
    Sarfraz
    Hafeez
    Talat
    Shadab
    Amir
    Hasan
    Shaheen

  57. #137
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    Pathetic team selection.

    The whole team is consisted of mediocre all rounders and bowlers and no specialist batsman in the middle order.

    Why on earth we play ODIS with three batsman, 1 keeper and 7 bowlers including all rounders.

    The whole point of having all rounders is that it allows you to play extra batsman or bowler. If we have bowling all rounder then we must play extra batsman.

    We need to play with five specialist batsman, 1 keeper batsman (Not specialist but useless Captain), 1 batting all rounder, 2 bowling all rounders and 2 bowlers. Or four specialist batsman with an extra bowler.

    But we must not have more than six bowling options. Six is the max limit. If you increase it further then it makes our mediocre batting line up even weaker.
    Last edited by We Bleed Green; 10th January 2019 at 14:33.

  58. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by We Bleed Green View Post
    Pathetic team selection.

    The whole team is consisted of mediocre all rounders and bowlers and no specialist batsman in the middle order.

    Why on earth we play ODIS with three batsman, 1 keeper and 7 bowlers including all rounders.

    The whole point of having all rounders is that it allows you to play extra batsman or bowler. If we have bowling all rounder then we must play extra batsman.

    We need to play with five specialist batsman, 1 keeper batsman (Not specialist but useless Captain), 1 batting all rounder, 2 bowling all rounders and 2 bowlers. Or four specialist batsman with an extra bowler.

    But we must not have more than six bowling options. Six is the max limit. If you increase it further then it makes our mediocre batting line up even weaker.
    That was the argument always for LO cricket - a batsman can bat for whole innings, but a bowler can bowl only 20% of overs; therefore the team combination must allow at least 80% or 4 solid bowlers; for T20, may be 5 is better, because you don’t need 7 batsmen for 20 overs.

    Don’t understand this latest logic of playing so many bowling options in playing XI when Captain isn’t sharp enough with his bowling changes - too many options means, he’ll end up under bowling some regular bowlers, like he has done in recent times. MS used to extract few overs from Sehwag, Raina, even Kohli but for simpleton Captain like Sarfaraz, ploy should be made easier - 4 specialist bowlers (of which Amir & Hasan can bat a bit; 3rd on can be Fahim or a 2nd spinner like Gohar or Irfan who can bat), one all-rounder (which can be (Shadab), and 5 batsmen of which may be one can bowl some overs in crisis (Haris/Saud), and a WK good enough to make XI simply as batsman (Rizwan/Umar).

    And top 5 must, must be judged only for their batting - no point having “All-rounders” at 3-4-5, who can make a nice 35 with bat & then bowl 5/6 overs without much penetration. Latest team to adopt this all-round syndrome is SRL and they have gone down to minnow level in that route. SAF with their all-round formula has dominated ODI cricket for last 3 decades, only to choke every time it mattered - that all-round syndrome went to madness level when Woolmer dropped Donald for Symcox & another all rounder (forgot name), for the 1996 WC QF against WIN - Arthur is from same school.

  59. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    That was the argument always for LO cricket - a batsman can bat for whole innings, but a bowler can bowl only 20% of overs; therefore the team combination must allow at least 80% or 4 solid bowlers; for T20, may be 5 is better, because you don’t need 7 batsmen for 20 overs.

    Don’t understand this latest logic of playing so many bowling options in playing XI when Captain isn’t sharp enough with his bowling changes - too many options means, he’ll end up under bowling some regular bowlers, like he has done in recent times. MS used to extract few overs from Sehwag, Raina, even Kohli but for simpleton Captain like Sarfaraz, ploy should be made easier - 4 specialist bowlers (of which Amir & Hasan can bat a bit; 3rd on can be Fahim or a 2nd spinner like Gohar or Irfan who can bat), one all-rounder (which can be (Shadab), and 5 batsmen of which may be one can bowl some overs in crisis (Haris/Saud), and a WK good enough to make XI simply as batsman (Rizwan/Umar).

    And top 5 must, must be judged only for their batting - no point having “All-rounders” at 3-4-5, who can make a nice 35 with bat & then bowl 5/6 overs without much penetration. Latest team to adopt this all-round syndrome is SRL and they have gone down to minnow level in that route. SAF with their all-round formula has dominated ODI cricket for last 3 decades, only to choke every time it mattered - that all-round syndrome went to madness level when Woolmer dropped Donald for Symcox & another all rounder (forgot name), for the 1996 WC QF against WIN - Arthur is from same school.
    Spot on. I agree

  60. #140
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    Tweet by someone;

    Junaid Khan's 104 wickets in ODIs are most by any Pakistani pacer since JK debut!!
    Only 4 fast bowlers (Starc, Bolt, M Morkel, Steyn) have better Average, Strike Rate and Economy than Junaid Khan in that period (min 100 wkts)

    @junaidkhanREAL
    #SAvPAK

  61. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by gazza619 View Post
    This was our best chance to try Abbass in ODIs
    He is not the most athletic fielder and that is one of the reasons he isnt part of mickey’s plans for World Cup

  62. #142
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    1.Shan Masood
    2.Fakhar Zaman
    3.Babar Azam

    4
    5 ... so weak
    6

  63. #143
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    Can't have Shoaib and Hafeez (the less said about Imam the better) in squad when the WC is in England. They have never performed in Aus/SA/NZ/Eng so to hope they can do it now is a defeated mentality. Better would have been to try at lest few youngsters (4-5) instead of the above mentioned 2 thus testing the new talent in somewhat of a similar environment as England. The two who would have emerged out of the group would have been taken to England for the World Cup. Alas it's not to be as we have Inzamam the champion as CS......

  64. #144
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    I want them to play this XI in the 1st match.

    1. Imam ul-Haq
    2. Fakhar Zaman
    3. Babar Azam
    4. Mohammad Hafeez
    5. Shoaib Malik
    6. Sarfraz Ahmed*+
    7. Imad Wasim
    8. Faheem Ashraf
    9. Shadab Khan
    10. Shaheen Afridi
    11. Usman Shinwari

    Rest Amir and Hasan for the 1st match at least. They will be tired from the Test matches and there is a lot of cricket coming up in the next few months.

  65. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rayyman View Post
    I want them to play this XI in the 1st match.

    1. Imam ul-Haq
    2. Fakhar Zaman
    3. Babar Azam
    4. Mohammad Hafeez
    5. Shoaib Malik
    6. Sarfraz Ahmed*+
    7. Imad Wasim
    8. Faheem Ashraf
    9. Shadab Khan
    10. Shaheen Afridi
    11. Usman Shinwari

    Rest Amir and Hasan for the 1st match at least. They will be tired from the Test matches and there is a lot of cricket coming up in the next few months.
    We can rest them once the series is decided, need to win it first and play the best possible team.

  66. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arsalan Pro View Post
    We can rest them once the series is decided, need to win it first and play the best possible team.
    Doesn't matter who wins the series. Players rested is more important with WC coming up. We all saw what happened to Amir and Hasan in Asia Cup.

  67. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rayyman View Post
    Doesn't matter who wins the series. Players rested is more important with WC coming up. We all saw what happened to Amir and Hasan in Asia Cup.
    Ok your opinion bro, I don't think playing 2-3 ODIs now would do any harm, especially after Amir returning to LOI cricket after 4 months and Hasan playing matches with alternate breaks.

  68. #148
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    I would swap Imam ul Haq and Rizwan for Bilal Asif and Umar Akmal


    "The Indian bowling attack is as devastating as the Teletubbies"- Sir Ian Botham

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rayyman View Post
    I want them to play this XI in the 1st match.

    1. Imam ul-Haq
    2. Fakhar Zaman
    3. Babar Azam
    4. Mohammad Hafeez
    5. Shoaib Malik
    6. Sarfraz Ahmed*+
    7. Imad Wasim
    8. Faheem Ashraf
    9. Shadab Khan
    10. Shaheen Afridi
    11. Usman Shinwari

    Rest Amir and Hasan for the 1st match at least. They will be tired from the Test matches and there is a lot of cricket coming up in the next few months.
    PAK will lose the game conceding bonus point. No rest required - they have already taken 6 days rest in Test, out of 15 scheduled. There are 5 days gap between the games and they'll need to play at average 9 games in 29 days at WC.

    Imad drops out for sure - can't play 3 left-arm quicks, backed by a leggi, so Shinwari has to make way for Hasan. Ul Haq has reached SAF to ensure Imam plays, so he'll play - may be they should drop MoHa for Shan. Hafeez has scored 77 in 4 innings @ 98 SR, in BPL batting in top order, and Malik has scored 15 in 3 @ 48 SR - one has to be purged. Malik's record in SAF is flukish, but current form is horrible, even in National T20, he was't great - I think, Inzamam will ensure Hafeez plays, if one has to sit out.

  70. #150
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    Happy to see Talar selected, but dropping Asif Ali is a poor move.

    Thinking about it, it's probably more the fact he doesn't bowl than anything else.

  71. #151
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