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  1. #1
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    11 inches of reasons to play Shaheen Shah Afridi not Hasan Ali

    I am bemused by the selection of Hasan Ali in place of Shaheen Shah Afridi at Johannesburg.

    The Wanderers ranks with the WACA as the bounciest wicket on earth. Dale Steyn has often commented on how hard it was for him as a short fast bowler to learn to bowl the right length there.

    To succeed at The Wanderers you need to bowl full enough to draw the batsman forward and then surprise him with lift from a full length. The taller the bowler, the easier this is.

    Get your length wrong and you leak runs fast. Get it right and youíre hard to score off.

    The wicket was made for Shaheen Shah Afridi, because at 6 foot 6 he has plenty of margin for error with his length.

    But he has been dropped in favour of Hasan Ali, who at 5 foot 7 is the shortest fast bowler in world cricket.

    Itís baffling, but itís also horrifying. If Pakistan could lose the series 2-1 instead of 3-0 its reputation remains largely intact.

    But thatís not going to happen with a 4 man pace attack in which all four are under 6 foot in height. At The Wanderers of all places!

  2. #2
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    It was being reported that SSA is unfit. Not sure about that.


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  3. #3
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    Hassan is 5'7 ??

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah719 View Post
    It was being reported that SSA is unfit. Not sure about that.
    If he is, then Ehsan Adil or Wahab Riaz or Rahat Ali should be there.

    You need at least one very tall fast bowler at The Wanderers. Minimum!

  5. #5
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    Ehsan Adil should have been added to the squad but Wahab and Rahat are as woeful as they come.

  6. #6
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    Ehsan Adil could have been really a solid option for this game.

  7. #7
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    If it was all about height then Malcolm Marshall would never become the GOAT.

  8. #8
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    Hasan Ali is like facing a bowling machine, capable but no brains to back it up.

    Doesn't have the smarts!

  9. #9
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    Bhuvi was the MoM when India won last time while both Bumrah and Shami took 5-fors. All of them along with Steyn, who averages 21 here, 1 lesser than his career average, are roughly 5 ft 10.

    Ntini, who is 5ft 8, and shorter than all 4 named above is the most successful bowler at this ground. 53 wickets at 21!! Even better than Donald towering him at 6ft 3 who had okish returns of 44 wickets @ 28.

    How does one explain all this?

  10. #10
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    It is not a our height, it is about quality. Hasan is bog average unless there is reverse-swing on offer.

    Shaheen is good and exciting, but he is hardly the new Rabada or Cummins. These are desperately embarrassing times for Pakistan cricket.

  11. #11
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    You can keep coming up with excuses but there is no hiding from the fact that there is a severe dearth of quality in PAK cricket at the moment.


    Definition of mediocrity.


    'We know which Pakistan has turned up today...'

    'It's the one to be afraid of.'

  12. #12
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    Shaheen is a work in progress. He will return as a much better bowler when we tour South Africa next time. Hasan Ali has earned his place with his performances over the past 2 years. Hope it answers the questions of @Junaids.

  13. #13
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    Horses for courses is not the term familiar to our team management. Playing yasir shah in the last two matches is the prime example.


    It is either a heartache or a headache ..Argh relationships.

  14. #14
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    It's good Shaheen was rested. No point burning him out in a dead rubber, we need to keep him fresh, I expect him to play a big part in ODI series.

    Lol at people saying Ehsan Adil. Mediocre bowler, hasn't even been that good in Domestic.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shandarchowka View Post
    Shaheen is a work in progress. He will return as a much better bowler when we tour South Africa next time. Hasan Ali has earned his place with his performances over the past 2 years. Hope it answers the questions of @Junaids.
    Agreed, Shaheen was properly trundling last game because his body is not used to 5 day cricket.
    He has played 2 first class game and now 3 tests


    If you always do what you have always done, you will always get what you always got #improve

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by freelance_cricketer View Post
    If it was all about height then Malcolm Marshall would never become the GOAT.
    Height isn't a factor when you have the bowling skills and pace of Malcolm Marshall and Dale Steyn but in the case of Abbas (let alone Hasan Ali) it is on grassless wickets in Australia and SA.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
    Hasan Ali is like facing a bowling machine, capable but no brains to back it up.

    Doesn't have the smarts!
    Is that how he won Pakistan the Champions Trophy and helped become #1 T20 team in the world?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by hadi123 View Post
    It's good Shaheen was rested. No point burning him out in a dead rubber, we need to keep him fresh, I expect him to play a big part in ODI series.

    Lol at people saying Ehsan Adil. Mediocre bowler, hasn't even been that good in Domestic.
    Thatís the whole point.

    Ehsan Adilís Bowling type (tall fast-medium extracting bounce from a good length) is useless in Asia, including domestic.

    But he has a BRILLIANT record in South Africa: in the 2011-12 Under-19 Tri-Series in South Africa the three standout players were Quinton De Kock, Ehsan Adil and Usman Qadir.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    That’s the whole point.

    Ehsan Adil’s Bowling type (tall fast-medium extracting bounce from a good length) is useless in Asia, including domestic.

    But he has a BRILLIANT record in South Africa: in the 2011-12 Under-19 Tri-Series in South Africa the three standout players were Quinton De Kock, Ehsan Adil and Usman Qadir.
    Ehsan Adil?! Are you crazy Mr @Junaids. Please tell me you are or that you're just trolling.

  20. #20
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    Seriously, Ntini disagrees with this thread. 5ft 8 and the best bowler at this ground.

  21. #21
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    Hasan's mind is scrambled. Without speculation, I feel it may be off field issues. His tweet said a lot.

    In this way, he will become a convenient scapegoat for Sarfaraz.

    Or I may be completely wrong.

  22. #22
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    What about Sadaf Hussain why has he never been given a chance tall accurate bowler capable of extracting awkward bounce he's quicker than Abbas aswell.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by BreadPakoda View Post
    Seriously, Ntini disagrees with this thread. 5ft 8 and the best bowler at this ground.
    And Ntini was used to bowling here.

    Hasan Ali has no experience on tracks with this bounce, and it shows.

  24. #24
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    We are just not good enough. Post 2010 we have relied on our spinners to give us successes.

    Last pacer who troubled any side was Junaid Khan in the Asia Cup. Apart from him every pacer has been taken to the cleaners.

    Loss of pace is a consequence of not feeling confident.


    "You aren't a failure if you fail, you are a failure if you don't get up to try again" - Imran Khan.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    And Ntini was used to bowling here.

    Hasan Ali has no experience on tracks with this bounce, and it shows.
    How will he get experience without playing?

  26. #26
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    For some people it is always about people who are not playing.They all of sudden become Bradmans and Holdings.

    When will people like OP realize, it doesn't matter who plays they are not going to make any difference.The quality is not there.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rayyman View Post
    How will he get experience without playing?
    Send him on an A team tour.

    Send him out early before the Test series.

    But donít throw him into a Test match in alien conditions and expect anything other than 20-0-120-0.

  28. #28
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    I think Pakistan should have played SSA here. This is a no pressure game and the management should have given him the room to be himself. All the practices and bowling in the nets will never amount to being there in the middle and bowling to top class batsmen. This is a learning period for the young man and he should have played in this game instead of Hassan Ali or even Aamir.
    You don't get many chance to bowl at test quality batsmen in foreign conditions and this no pressure game would have helped him immensely.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by jadaja View Post
    For some people it is always about people who are not playing.They all of sudden become Bradmans and Holdings.

    When will people like OP realize, it doesn't matter who plays they are not going to make any difference.The quality is not there.
    But it is.

    Both Rahat Ali and Ehsan Adil have done well in South Africa before.

    The squad was sent out with two fast bowlers too few, and with only one quick bowler 6 feet tall or above.

    Itís absurd!

  30. #30
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    Hasan is a bang average bowler. He reminds me of Bilawal bhatti. Afridi is way better. If Hasan is a forced selection then Pak has more worrying problems.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shandarchowka View Post
    Is that how he won Pakistan the Champions Trophy and helped become #1 T20 team in the world?
    Test bowling is different, very different!

    Maybe I am wrong, but I dont see him set up a batsman, capable of taking wickets or control the flow of runs. Perhaps there are other issues, but Hasan is simply running up and bowling with no real logic behind the process.

    Hasan's pace is what batsmen like, it's not threatening but the right pace that comes onto the bat and help them score. So either he needs to be really intelligent with his deliveries or generate swing/movement to deceive batsmen.

    I understand it's not fair laying into someone who's maybe struggling for form, but with his experience he can atleast be disciplined and economical. Restricting the run flow to under 4 an over isn't a lot to ask for someone who's been playing test cricket for 2 years now!

    Thats why I said its like facing a bowling machine, the batsmen haven't been challenged by Hasan's bowling this whole series.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Send him on an A team tour.

    Send him out early before the Test series.

    But don’t throw him into a Test match in alien conditions and expect anything other than 20-0-120-0.
    This is a dead rubber and best time for a youngster who is really good to play against quality batsmen.

  33. #33
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    Ehsan adil wahab riaz and rahat ali should have played instead of these trundlers.really pathetic.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
    Test bowling is different, very different!

    Maybe I am wrong, but I dont see him set up a batsman, capable of taking wickets or control the flow of runs. Perhaps there are other issues, but Hasan is simply running up and bowling with no real logic behind the process.

    Hasan's pace is what batsmen like, it's not threatening but the right pace that comes onto the bat and help them score. So either he needs to be really intelligent with his deliveries or generate swing/movement to deceive batsmen.

    I understand it's not fair laying into someone who's maybe struggling for form, but with his experience he can atleast be disciplined and economical. Restricting the run flow to under 4 an over isn't a lot to ask for someone who's been playing test cricket for 2 years now!

    Thats why I said its like facing a bowling machine, the batsmen haven't been challenged by Hasan's bowling this whole series.
    I completely agree with you on all points. Maybe you're right about Hasan in test matches. However, I believe Hasan has the x factor and he can still be a good enough bowler in tests especially in combination with Amir and Abbas.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Birdman View Post
    This is a dead rubber and best time for a youngster who is really good to play against quality batsmen.
    Thereís no such thing in Tests as a Dead Rubber.

    India was 2-0 down in South Africa a year ago and pulled it back to 2-1.

    And that looks much, much better than losing 3-0. Especially since compared with what India faced there is no AB, no FAF and no Morne Morkel.

    Remember New Zealand 2 years ago? A respectable 1-0 loss was turned into a humiliating 2-0 loss due to a crazy chase after Tea on the final day.

    Never surrender a ďDead RubberĒ!

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shandarchowka View Post
    I completely agree with you on all points. Maybe you're right about Hasan in test matches. However, I believe Hasan has the x factor and he can still be a good enough bowler in tests especially in combination with Amir and Abbas.
    Nope.

    Amir and Abbas are two sub-6 foot, sub-140K short medium pacers.

    They need to be paired with someone much taller and much quicker, not another shorty.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    But it is.

    Both Rahat Ali and Ehsan Adil have done well in South Africa before.

    The squad was sent out with two fast bowlers too few, and with only one quick bowler 6 feet tall or above.

    It’s absurd!
    We will change rules just for you.We will let Pakistan play with 10 bowlers when fielding and 10 batsmen when they are batting. Do you think Pakistan will win with these rules ???

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by jadaja View Post
    We will change rules just for you.We will let Pakistan play with 10 bowlers when fielding and 10 batsmen when they are batting. Do you think Pakistan will win with these rules ???
    Pakistan sent 7 quick bowlers on the 1992 tour of England.

    They sent 3.5 fit quick bowlers on this tour, to a venue where the hosts have played a four man pace attack.

    Ehsan Adil should have been there today, not a fourth dwarf.

  39. #39
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    Not against the point being made but what's Ehsan Adil's bowling record in the last few seasons of FC cricket ?

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    There’s no such thing in Tests as a Dead Rubber.

    India was 2-0 down in South Africa a year ago and pulled it back to 2-1.

    And that looks much, much better than losing 3-0. Especially since compared with what India faced there is no AB, no FAF and no Morne Morkel.

    Remember New Zealand 2 years ago? A respectable 1-0 loss was turned into a humiliating 2-0 loss due to a crazy chase after Tea on the final day.

    Never surrender a “Dead Rubber”!
    100% agree there is no dead rubber.This is test match , you play to win every match.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    Not against the point being made but what's Ehsan Adil's bowling record in the last few seasons of FC cricket ?


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  42. #42
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    Procavotive thread title

  43. #43
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    Shaheen is a bit better but too raw. Hasan is mostly decent at best.

    These are the best we have.

    Your Cheemas, Ehsans, Mir Hamzas, Sadafs, Samiullah are bang average trundlers.

    They're 50x worse than our current attack.

    But as always, PPers LOVE those who are not even in the team and not international class.

  44. #44
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    I hope some of the 'elite' posters here saw how Hasan bowled after tea. Hasan is here to stay. He's a braveheart.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    Shaheen is a bit better but too raw. Hasan is mostly decent at best.

    These are the best we have.

    Your Cheemas, Ehsans, Mir Hamzas, Sadafs, Samiullah are bang average trundlers.

    They're 50x worse than our current attack.

    But as always, PPers LOVE those who are not even in the team and not international class.
    How well Pakistan bowlers came back when they got reverse swing? Joy of test cricket and South African pitches throw up these beauties. Now bat well and grind out a victory.

    Not a easy bowling unit at all. Just needed more practice matches at the start of the series and a little build up of confidence.


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