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  1. #1
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    Joe Root's batting in decline? Now averages less than 50 in Tests

    Now averages less than 50 with the bat in test cricket(49.87) . Root has fallen well behind Kane and Kohli now in test cricket. is this just a temporary slump or is it a permanent decline? Last 19 tests(including ongoing one) he averages 36.7 with the bat. Discuss.


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  2. #2
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    Pressure of captaincy getting to him.

  3. #3
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    Captaincy is interfering with his batting as it usually does to England skippers. It doesn't help that the top three continue to fail.

    Buttler should be skipper, so our run champion's mind becomes uncluttered again and he gets back to scoring big in all formats.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Captaincy is interfering wuith his batting as it usually does to England skipers. It doesn't help that the top three continue to fail.

    Buttler should be skipper so our run champion's mind becomes uncluttered again and he gets back to scoring big in all formats.
    There is an argument that Butler shouldn't be in the team.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Captaincy is interfering with his batting as it usually does to England skippers. It doesn't help that the top three continue to fail.

    Buttler should be skipper, so our run champion's mind becomes uncluttered again and he gets back to scoring big in all formats.
    He's scoring fine in ODI's. Only in tests has he declined so much.


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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikhil_cric View Post
    He's scoring fine in ODI's. Only in tests has he declined so much.
    He is not English captain in ODIs. Morgan is.

    Root is not a natural leader. England should let him focus on batting.

  7. #7
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    Who can be the captain if not Root? Butter is vice captain but he hasn't done much in tests after that couple of home series to warrant a test captaincy.

  8. #8
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    He needs to score tons while playing away. He has only 4 tons when playing away. Avg will take care of itself.


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  9. #9
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    I love being proven right.


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  10. #10
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    Why blame captaincy? He’s a bit too tall for Test cricket (I’m not kidding at all).

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    I love being proven right.

    Haha yeah I remember that thread.

  12. #12
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    He still averages much better than Amla. All he needs to do is ensure that his average doesn't drop to 47. If it does, and remains there, he will never be regarded again in the league of Kohli (he never was anyways)


    If there is a better batsman than Sachin then he hasnít arrived yet: Viv Richards

  13. #13
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    scored a good fighting 22 today

  14. #14
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    He was never fit to be captain to be begin with.

    He will always be remembered as a player who had no glaring weakness, could score in all conditions but never reached the layer of a Smith or Kohli.

    For Englandís sake, they need to stop putting players in the wrong format and overhyping their team of all-rounders.

    The all-rounders are neither good enough to bowl or bat but with England strengthening their lower-order, they have sacrificed their top-order that made them so formidable from 2009-2012.

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    Joe Fifty not even living up to his nickname now.


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  16. #16
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    I always thought appointing him as the captain of the side, wouldnít be good for him.

    Stuart Broad shouldíve been appointed as the captain.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikhil_cric View Post
    He's scoring fine in ODI's. Only in tests has he declined so much.
    Proves my point. He isn’t ODI skipper.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManFan View Post
    He was never fit to be captain to be begin with.

    He will always be remembered as a player who had no glaring weakness, could score in all conditions but never reached the layer of a Smith or Kohli.

    For England’s sake, they need to stop putting players in the wrong format and overhyping their team of all-rounders.

    The all-rounders are neither good enough to bowl or bat but with England strengthening their lower-order, they have sacrificed their top-order that made them so formidable from 2009-2012.
    Oh good grief. People repeat this nonsense over and over without thinking.

    What top order players available are better than these four? None!

    Which specialist bowlers available are better bowlers than said all-rounders? None!

    The County game only produces LO players now, not test players. In the name of T20 money it is no longer fit for purpose.

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    May be a temporary below par phase of a batsman like virat had in 2015.
    He is just entering the golden age 28-34 and already scored 6.5k runs, sky is the limit for him.

  20. #20
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    He is a terrific player who is going through a lean patch. His best years are still ahead of him.

  21. #21
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    Happens to all England captains, they get dragged down by the pressures of captaincy and their average plummets. Root also has to manage a bad back, much like Michael Clarke, so I don't think he'll ever be able to be as consistent as Smith or Kohli. He's a very good player regardless and easily England's best.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Oh good grief. People repeat this nonsense over and over without thinking.

    What top order players available are better than these four? None!

    Which specialist bowlers available are better bowlers than said all-rounders? None!

    The County game only produces LO players now, not test players. In the name of T20 money it is no longer fit for purpose.
    So, now we're using the Pakistani excuse of "there is no better talent available".

    What has Rashid done that warrants a place ahead of Leach?

    What has Curran done to get the nod over Broad?

    How many sub-100 totals have England garnered over the past two years with the same set of players? Is there not a general pattern or method to the embarrassing batting displays on offer?

  23. #23
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    He will come good .

  24. #24
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    Root is a very good batsman , Kohli is above him.

  25. #25
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    Root is just above the level of Warner really. He was never as talented as Kohli or as mentally strong as Smith.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManFan View Post
    So, now we're using the Pakistani excuse of "there is no better talent available".

    What has Rashid done that warrants a place ahead of Leach?

    What has Curran done to get the nod over Broad?

    How many sub-100 totals have England garnered over the past two years with the same set of players? Is there not a general pattern or method to the embarrassing batting displays on offer?
    1. There are no better test players available.

    2. Probably because he’s a leggie which is a rarity in England. And because he has done well in LO cricket for England.

    3. Averaged 25 in his first six tests, while Broad has lost pace and stopped taking wickets.

    4. See 1.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    1. There are no better test players available.

    2. Probably because he’s a leggie which is a rarity in England. And because he has done well in LO cricket for England.

    3. Averaged 25 in his first six tests, while Broad has lost pace and stopped taking wickets.

    4. See 1.
    1. Again, no explanation besides "no better players available".

    2. A leg-spinner who is picked for Test Cricket based on his LO exploits. So, England has made a complete 180 from the days of Cook and Broad opening the batting and bowling in ODI's.

    3. Broad averages 31 in the WI which is average but a one-off series in England should not be used as an excuse to drop a bowler who has proven himself for a decade.

    4. See 1.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManFan View Post
    1. Again, no explanation besides "no better players available".

    2. A leg-spinner who is picked for Test Cricket based on his LO exploits. So, England has made a complete 180 from the days of Cook and Broad opening the batting and bowling in ODI's.

    3. Broad averages 31 in the WI which is average but a one-off series in England should not be used as an excuse to drop a bowler who has proven himself for a decade.

    4. See 1.
    1. If there were better openers than Jennings and Burns available, they would play.

    2. I don’t understand your point.

    3. It doesn’t matter if he had proved himself in the past, what matters is now. His pace dropped and he didn’t look like taking wickets so they picked the man who did. Turned out to be a bad call but I understand the reason.

  29. #29
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    Averaging under 49 now. It has been dropping alarmingly.

  30. #30
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    Root was a monster between 2013 and 2016. He hasn't hit a big century in a long time. Not the same Root like before.


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  31. #31
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    The pressures of captaincy. He should be replaced and allowed to flourish as a batsman.

    Butler should be captain. Bairstow should be relieved off keeping duties as well with foakes coming in.

  32. #32
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    Some batsmen flourish as captains but some start regressing after captaincy. It is better if Root leaves the captaincy.

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    Root doesn't seem like a great captain. He doesn't inspire team like Morgan does.

    I feel that Stokes should be the captain of Test team.


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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweep_shot View Post
    Root doesn't seem like a great captain. He doesn't inspire team like Morgan does.

    I feel that Stokes should be the captain of Test team.
    Buttler should get it. He’s calmer and I think his batting would improve.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Buttler should get it. He’s calmer and I think his batting would improve.
    Why not recall Morgan and make him captain of Test too? He can't do much worse than Denly surely?


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  36. #36
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    joe root does not deserve to be mentioned along with kanos, kohli and smith.

  37. #37
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    Not so long ago, according to @Mamoon "Root is a better batsman than Smith"

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspin View Post
    Not so long ago, according to @Mamoon "Root is a better batsman than Smith"
    Lol according to him root is better than bradman and stokes better than kallis. Such deluded & biased poster.
    Last edited by Sam99; 6th August 2019 at 14:40.

  39. #39
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    Root started well but then his averageness was clear... to make it worse, he cannot take pressure, whether it be batting or captaincy ... are there better ODI players than him in LOI Yes.. are there better player than him in tests? OOO yes sir... so dont know why he is in there as a fab? he isnt the best english batsmen... Bairstow will soon take his place as the best english batsmen... but he himself is having a crap of a recent form.

  40. #40
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    Heís an average batsmen. Babar deserves to be in the fab 4 more than him.


  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shazzam View Post
    Heís an average batsmen. Babar deserves to be in the fab 4 more than him.
    What exactly are Babarís achievements in Test cricket so far which makes him more eligible than Root to be in the Fab 4?

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shazzam View Post
    He’s an average batsmen. Babar deserves to be in the fab 4 more than him.
    no chance.... there are better players than babar in dozen (tests only) .. in ODI yes he does, in T20 he is ahead of all of them but in tests he is not even in top10 maybe in the range of 15 to 20 ... needs to play a lot of massive innings to get in top4

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspin View Post
    Not so long ago, according to @Mamoon "Root is a better batsman than Smith"
    No need of mocking Root when he is going through the leanest run of his career. He is a high class player and worthy of averaging 50+ which he will inevitably achieve again. All this talk of him declining is premature. His best years are still ahead of him but it is possible that captaincy is weighing him down.

    As far as comparison with Smith is concerned, he is better in ODIs but Smith is probably the GOAT Test batsman.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweep_shot View Post
    Why not recall Morgan and make him captain of Test too? He can't do much worse than Denly surely?
    I agree. Morgan should have been test skipper for years.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rellu_Katta View Post
    Root started well but then his averageness was clear... to make it worse, he cannot take pressure, whether it be batting or captaincy ... are there better ODI players than him in LOI Yes.. are there better player than him in tests? OOO yes sir... so dont know why he is in there as a fab? he isnt the best english batsmen... Bairstow will soon take his place as the best english batsmen... but he himself is having a crap of a recent form.
    Sixteen test centuries and thirty test fifties is a lot better than average.

    Itís the curse of the England captaincy. Nearly everyoneís batting form suffers - there is simply too much else to think about.

    As for Bairstow, donít let ODI form mislead you. He averages 35 in tests to Rootís 48, and just 25 over the last year so I expect him to be dropped for Foakes.

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    If England fails to win the Ashes, they should drop some of the ODI specialists and get a new Test team. They did that with ODI team after 2015 and it worked wonders.

    England needs to get a fresh beginning in Test format. Time to drop Bairstow, Moeen, Roy, Burns, Denly, and possibly Butler too.


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  47. #47
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    Flat out No. But he has to start converting in the interest of his side.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Sixteen test centuries and thirty test fifties is a lot better than average.

    It’s the curse of the England captaincy. Nearly everyone’s batting form suffers - there is simply too much else to think about.

    As for Bairstow, don’t let ODI form mislead you. He averages 35 in tests to Root’s 48, and just 25 over the last year so I expect him to be dropped for Foakes.
    11 home centuries...5 away ... of the 5, 2 vs WI of the old ..not even current ... 1 in SL 1 in SA 1 in india... home stocks bullied ...proper home turf star.... extremly poor conversion rate from 50 to 100... no 100 in 4th innings .. 2019 avg 29.. 2018 avg 42 .... do i need more stats?

  49. #49
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    All things point to one things only - Captaincy is taking toll on his batting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitman View Post
    What exactly are Babarís achievements in Test cricket so far which makes him more eligible than Root to be in the Fab 4?
    Well for one he destroyed Steyneís career. Two he has not peaked yet and is already being seen by the world as the next big thing. Give him two more years and he will make it in the fab 4. Root has no chance anymore. He has shown his skills. Not good enough. Wonít ever be good enough. Babar on the other hand is destined to be a legend.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rellu_Katta View Post
    no chance.... there are better players than babar in dozen (tests only) .. in ODI yes he does, in T20 he is ahead of all of them but in tests he is not even in top10 maybe in the range of 15 to 20 ... needs to play a lot of massive innings to get in top4
    Who should be on fab 4 than?

  51. #51
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    This is the exact reason why Babar should not be given the captaincy! It's not for everyone...


    Have the players going forward, just need coaching&professionalism! #1 priority: fielding

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rellu_Katta View Post
    11 home centuries...5 away ... of the 5, 2 vs WI of the old ..not even current ... 1 in SL 1 in SA 1 in india... home stocks bullied ...proper home turf star.... extremly poor conversion rate from 50 to 100... no 100 in 4th innings .. 2019 avg 29.. 2018 avg 42 .... do i need more stats?
    Yeah, you do if you are going to refute my point that the captaincy has affected his batting and support your assertion that a man averaging 36 overall (and just 13 in his last five tests) is somehow the better player.

    Root averages 52 when not skipper and 42 when skipper, so it should be obvious that the captaincy has affected him negatively as it did Vaughan, Strauss and Cook before him. When not skipper he averages 46 overseas - there is still a discrepancy with his home record, but he is still doing well away from home when unencumbered.

    No hundred in the fourth innings means he is getting them all up front where it matters most. Fourth innings hundreds are usually too late, the chance to win the match has gone.

    Oh, and itís 42 test fifties not 30.
    Last edited by Robert; 6th August 2019 at 22:15.

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    Considering his ODI exploits, he still belongs to fab four.

    He has longevity on his side, might reach 12K runs in tests and 10K in ODI cricket as well.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by zulfiqar View Post
    This is the exact reason why Babar should not be given the captaincy! It's not for everyone...
    Might get better. Some do.

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    He is 28. Surely he will have one devastating period. Captaincy does seem to be affecting him. If England lost the series badly, I think he would be replaced as captain.

    Still a good player but just not as good as Kohli and Steve Smith.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Might get better. Some do.
    Babar seems a bit too introverted to be captain. He doesn't seem captaincy material.


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  57. #57
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    As his odi game gets better, his test batting suffers. Maybe he is egged on a bit too much and has to remember what brought him to the dance - an ability to grind runs in tough conditions.

    Once he gets back to that he will be back at his absolute best.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitman View Post
    What exactly are Babar’s achievements in Test cricket so far which makes him more eligible than Root to be in the Fab 4?
    Root doesn't deserve to be in fav 4 either. Warner should be because he's great in all formats. Or Pujara if it's just about tests.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweep_shot View Post
    Why not recall Morgan and make him captain of Test too? He can't do much worse than Denly surely?
    That is not how things work. Bad is not replaced with something equally bad. They have to find a better batsman than Denly.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaankeJi View Post
    That is not how things work. Bad is not replaced with something equally bad. They have to find a better batsman than Denly.
    You are seriously comparing a world cup winning captain to someone like Denly (with all due respect to Denly)?

    Morgan had a bad series in UAE back in 2012 but that was a long time ago. There is no reason to discard someone over one bad series. England tried many options and none worked. Morgan should be given another opportunity in my opinion.


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  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaankeJi View Post
    That is not how things work. Bad is not replaced with something equally bad. They have to find a better batsman than Denly.
    Morgan is ok. He has two test centuries, one against A&A operating under total overcast.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shazzam View Post
    Well for one he destroyed Steyneís career. Two he has not peaked yet and is already being seen by the world as the next big thing. Give him two more years and he will make it in the fab 4. Root has no chance anymore. He has shown his skills. Not good enough. Wonít ever be good enough. Babar on the other hand is destined to be a legend.
    Yea, scoring some pretty looking shots to a past his prime Steyn (36 years old) is equivalent to ending his career. That too after Steyn went through multiple injuries. Great going!

    By the way, how much did he average in that Test series? Let me mention that, 35.

    And if you want to give him another couple of years, then wait for it. Youíre already saying that Babar deserves to be among the Fab 4 instead of Root with a Test batting average of 36 and 1 Test century so far

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitman View Post
    Yea, scoring some pretty looking shots to a past his prime Steyn (36 years old) is equivalent to ending his career. That too after Steyn went through multiple injuries. Great going!
    So your saying Steyn is good as a trundler at age 36? Hey thats your logic not mine. I guess excuses like these are common for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitman View Post
    By the way, how much did he average in that Test series? Let me mention that, 35.
    Good to know you answered that yourself or else I would be seriously worried. So with his average of 35 he was still good enough to end Steynís career. If this isnít a message that he has the ability to be in fab 4 than I donít know what is. He is scoring faster than Kohli ever did. But hey heís Kohli so its ok.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitman View Post
    And if you want to give him another couple of years, then wait for it. Youíre already saying that Babar deserves to be among the Fab 4 instead of Root with a Test batting average of 36 and 1 Test century so far
    Well Root already showed what he is capable of. He is not even Englands best batsmen and he is on this list cause well... god knows why? And wasnít fab 4 created when each of these batsmen were still developing? So the logic of this should apply to Babar. I guess seeing a successful Pakistani batsmen is too much for you.
    Last edited by Shazzam; 8th August 2019 at 00:03.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shazzam View Post
    So your saying Steyn is good as a trundler at age 36? Hey thats your logic not mine. I guess excuses like these are common for you.



    Good to know you answered that yourself or else I would be seriously worried. So with his average of 35 he was still good enough to end Steynís career. If this isnít a message that he has the ability to be in fab 4 than I donít know what is. He is scoring faster than Kohli ever did. But hey heís Kohli so its ok.



    Well Root already showed what he is capable of. He is not even Englands best batsmen and he is on this list cause well... god knows why? And wasnít fab 4 created when each of these batsmen were still developing? So the logic of this should apply to Babar. I guess seeing a successful Pakistani batsmen is too much for you.
    If not Root,then who is England best batsmen?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    If not Root,then who is England best batsmen?
    Stokes

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    Root will bounce back. He is too good a batsman not to.

    At one time Kohli also averaged under 50 in tests and now he averages 53. Root needs a good year or two with couple of big hundreds to take his average back to 50+.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shazzam View Post
    Stokes
    With a test average under 35? Root test average is 49. You can call him as all-rounder but batsmen??

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    With a test average under 35? Root test average is 49. You can call him as all-rounder but batsmen??
    Ok I was wrong here, I just looked at the stats. He is there best batsmen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Yeah, you do if you are going to refute my point that the captaincy has affected his batting and support your assertion that a man averaging 36 overall (and just 13 in his last five tests) is somehow the better player.

    Root averages 52 when not skipper and 42 when skipper, so it should be obvious that the captaincy has affected him negatively as it did Vaughan, Strauss and Cook before him. When not skipper he averages 46 overseas - there is still a discrepancy with his home record, but he is still doing well away from home when unencumbered.

    No hundred in the fourth innings means he is getting them all up front where it matters most. Fourth innings hundreds are usually too late, the chance to win the match has gone.

    Oh, and it’s 42 test fifties not 30.
    Didn't Cook average like 47 as captain? I thought he did pretty good as captain.

    Cook was for some reason my favorite English player.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Shazzam View Post
    Stokes
    Stokes is an average batsman in tests.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Might get better. Some do.
    Kohli's batting took a huge jump once he got the captaincy.

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    He should not be batting at #3, he does not have the game for that. Bat him at #4 and that average will go over 50 again. Generally speaking, it is very difficult to maintain an average over 50 as a top order batsman in places like England and South Africa. Just look at some of the modern-day batsmen who have missed out:

    1) Hashim Amla
    2) Graeme Smith
    3) Alastair Cook
    4) Kevin Pietersen, even though he batted lower than #3.
    Last edited by Bilal7; 10th August 2019 at 05:21.


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  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    He should not be batting at #3, he does not have the game for that. Bat him at #4 and that average will go over 50 again. Generally speaking, it is very difficult to maintain an average over 50 as a top order batsman in places like England and South Africa. Just look at some of the modern-day batsmen who have missed out:

    1) Hashim Amla
    2) Graeme Smith
    3) Alastair Cook
    4) Kevin Pietersen, even though he batted lower than #3.
    None of them were good enough to average 50. It has nothing to do with them being English or South African.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    He should not be batting at #3, he does not have the game for that. Bat him at #4 and that average will go over 50 again. Generally speaking, it is very difficult to maintain an average over 50 as a top order batsman in places like England and South Africa. Just look at some of the modern-day batsmen who have missed out:

    1) Hashim Amla
    2) Graeme Smith
    3) Alastair Cook
    4) Kevin Pietersen, even though he batted lower than #3.
    It's not easy to avg > 50 in test cricket regardless of position. Unless pitches are flat like UAE, Pak or old Indian ones.


    ...

  75. #75
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    Some people do not avg 50 even though batting on current Aussie wickets which are by far best for batting after UAE


    ...

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    He should not be batting at #3, he does not have the game for that. Bat him at #4 and that average will go over 50 again. Generally speaking, it is very difficult to maintain an average over 50 as a top order batsman in places like England and South Africa. Just look at some of the modern-day batsmen who have missed out:

    1) Hashim Amla
    2) Graeme Smith
    3) Alastair Cook
    4) Kevin Pietersen, even though he batted lower than #3.
    KP didn't averaged 50 because he wasn't consistent. He was more like a player of great innings. To average 50, you need to have consistency and he didn't had.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuts_and_cuts_hard View Post
    None of them were good enough to average 50. It has nothing to do with them being English or South African.
    A silly assumption. Amla and Smith are certified legends in test cricket and Cook was not far behind. KP may not have been the most consistent but he's easily better than the likes of Samaraweera, Mahela, Sehwag, Pujara and Mohammad Yousuf.

    Batting in England and South Africa is definitely tougher than batting elsewhere. Root needs to be bettee protected from the swing and seam.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    KP didn't averaged 50 because he wasn't consistent. He was more like a player of great innings. To average 50, you need to have consistency and he didn't had.
    The other three did.

    Quote Originally Posted by AamchiMumbaikar View Post
    It's not easy to avg > 50 in test cricket regardless of position. Unless pitches are flat like UAE, Pak or old Indian ones.
    It's definitely easier to bat in the middle-order in test cricket, especially outside of Asia.


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    I think one thing everyone can agree on is that Root is nowhere near the other three atleast in Tests. They are all vastly superior batsmen. He is ofcourse a very good batsman and outranks Smith in ODIs but I just don't see him in the same light as I see the other three because he isn't integral to his team's cause in the same way Williamson, Kohli and Smith are
    Last edited by RedwoodOriginal; 11th August 2019 at 00:56.

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    Root will bounce back. He's still scoring 50s and England is a pretty yough country to bat these days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedwoodOriginal View Post
    I think one thing everyone can agree on is that Root is nowhere near the other three atleast in Tests. They are all vastly superior batsmen. He is ofcourse a very good batsman and outranks Smith in ODIs but I just don't see him in the same light as I see the other three because he isn't integral to his team's cause in the same way Williamson, Kohli and Smith are
    The other three have at least one competent opener going in ahead of them. Root is continually doing repair jobs because his top two are not test class.

    But the England captaincy is a curse, drastically reducing the run output of Vaughan and to a smaller extent everyone since. They should give it to someone else to free Root up to resume hitting centuries.


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