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  1. #1
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    Is it fair to call Joe Root a "Home Track Bully"?

    He has played 80 tests till now and has got over 6500 runs at an average just under 50 with 15 hundreds.

    However, over 38 tests, he has just 4 hundreds away from home. His contemporaries, in comparison, have below number of hundreds away from home: -

    Virat Kohli 14 in 42 tests
    Steven Smith 10 in 35 tests
    Kane Williamson 11 in 38 tests

    He still averages a decent 42 away from England and Wales but hasn't been able to make any major impact in India, Australia, UAE and New Zealand.

    Discuss!

  2. #2
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    Series defining performances in South Africa negate the assumption he is a home track bully.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLcric123 View Post
    He has played 80 tests till now and has got over 6500 runs at an average just under 50 with 15 hundreds.

    However, over 38 tests, he has just 4 hundreds away from home. His contemporaries, in comparison, have below number of hundreds away from home: -

    Virat Kohli 14 in 42 tests
    Steven Smith 10 in 35 tests
    Kane Williamson 11 in 38 tests

    He still averages a decent 42 away from England and Wales but hasn't been able to make any major impact in India, Australia, UAE and New Zealand.

    Discuss!
    Averaging 42 away is decent.
    So no, he isn't a home track bully

  4. #4
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    You only become HTB if your away average is < 40. England has inconsistent batting anyway so his centuries wouldn't have much impact either unless whole team clicks (as it did against the mediocre SL).

  5. #5
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    He's one of the best batsmen in the world, so of course he can't be a HTB but yes, his batting has dropped since assuming the captaincy and England can't afford to lose their best player because of the captaincy. Would like to see someone else replace Root as captain but I doubt the ECB will do so in a massive year for English cricket. I think Root's form will decide how long he keeps the Test captaincy.


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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by barah_admi View Post
    Series defining performances in South Africa negate the assumption he is a home track bully.
    If Kohli had scored a grand total of 4 hundreds away from home you won't stop complaining about it. But can't expect anything better than you.

  7. #7
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    He is a good batsman. May be his peak is over. Used to be extremely consistent. His conversion is a problem even in England. A must for English side inspite of his form given the pathetic top order.

  8. #8
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    Not at all, he is an all-condition player. His issue is lapse of concentration or mental strength. He scores a breezy 50,looks great but then a sudden lapse of focus and he throws his wicket.

    He hasn't done anything of note in Australia but still averages a very fine 38 there. So, he keeps getting starts but fails to convert big. That's his only issue.

    Definitely an England great in all formats of the game and no reasons to dis-qualify him from from the fab four if you keep Kohli, Smith and Williamson in it.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rahul1 View Post
    If Kohli had scored a grand total of 4 hundreds away from home you won't stop complaining about it. But can't expect anything better than you.
    You always make a lot of claims you never back up.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Not at all, he is an all-condition player. His issue is lapse of concentration or mental strength. He scores a breezy 50,looks great but then a sudden lapse of focus and he throws his wicket.

    He hasn't done anything of note in Australia but still averages a very fine 38 there. So, he keeps getting starts but fails to convert big. That's his only issue.

    Definitely an England great in all formats of the game and no reasons to dis-qualify him from from the fab four if you keep Kohli, Smith and Williamson in it.
    I think more so than lack of concentration, it may be the back condition he suffers from which is holding him back.

  11. #11
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    Hmm, I would call Trescothick a HTB (50 average in England, 35 away) but not Root.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by barah_admi View Post
    I think more so than lack of concentration, it may be the back condition he suffers from which is holding him back.
    Don't think so. He has this issue of lapse of concentration which is why he bats so brilliantly for his 70 but throws his wickets eventually. England playing lots of tests doesn't help either.

    An England great but won't call him ATG unless he starts dominating again.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Don't think so. He has this issue of lapse of concentration which is why he bats so brilliantly for his 70 but throws his wickets eventually. England playing lots of tests doesn't help either.

    An England great but won't call him ATG unless he starts dominating again.
    What don't you think? He has a back conditions which requires him to often use painkillers during a test match. It is just a fact.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLcric123 View Post
    He has played 80 tests till now and has got over 6500 runs at an average just under 50 with 15 hundreds.

    However, over 38 tests, he has just 4 hundreds away from home. His contemporaries, in comparison, have below number of hundreds away from home: -

    Virat Kohli 14 in 42 tests
    Steven Smith 10 in 35 tests
    Kane Williamson 11 in 38 tests

    He still averages a decent 42 away from England and Wales but hasn't been able to make any major impact in India, Australia, UAE and New Zealand.

    Discuss!
    Please mention their averages too for a fairer comparison?

    People are jumping on Root for his low scores in the Windies but some of the balls he faced were unplayable, Kohli, Smith or even Bradman would have been cleaned up by them. Cricket is not a simple game of numbers.


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  15. #15
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    Not an HTB, but not good enough away from home to be even close to an ATG when he retires.

    Going by country, he averages 38 in Australia, 25 in Bangladesh, 26 in NZ, and 38 in SL. He does have a very good record in India, SA, and the UAE though.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    Please mention their averages too for a fairer comparison?

    People are jumping on Root for his low scores in the Windies but some of the balls he faced were unplayable, Kohli, Smith or even Bradman would have been cleaned up by them. Cricket is not a simple game of numbers.
    2 of his dismissals this series were to great deliveries, but there is no such thing as a ball that would get any batsman in the world out.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sachin136 View Post
    2 of his dismissals this series were to great deliveries, but there is no such thing as a ball that would get any batsman in the world out.
    Let me guesss Kohli would have slapped them for four?

    They were unplayble, every commie said the same so please explain in detail how he could have played those two deliveries in a better way?


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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Hmm, I would call Trescothick a HTB (50 average in England, 35 away) but not Root.
    Definitely not HTB. Sure he looked like a deer caught in the headlights against Mitch Johnson in that one series. Overall he has played well everywhere. When batsman goes through a slump technique helps them get back. LEt us see how he comes back. After Ausstralian series his average has come from 53.28 to 48.97. That is a 5 point dip. Players peak at 30. So age is on his side. He can come back strong. All good batsmen go through a slump

  19. #19
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    Not an HTB. He still averages well in two of the toughest countries to play in in India and South Africa. He is going through a real tough time with the bat but not a HTB.

  20. #20
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    Seems harsh to call him that. You don't average 42 away from home, make a big impact in South Africa and also be considered one of the best batsmen in the world and be a HTB.

    I think the captaincy needs to be given to someone else, Root won't admit that he should resign from that position but we all know that it's not helped anything. He should focus on purely getting into form with the bat.

  21. #21
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    His away record is not relevant to call him HTB. You can be decent, good or great away and yet be called a HTB. You could be HTB and ATB as well.

    His record is not great enough to at home to be called HTB. He is not a bully in any conditions.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haroon786 View Post
    He's one of the best batsmen in the world,
    He's not even the best batsman in the England squad.

  23. #23
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    I was in the stadium when Joe Root scored 254 runs against Pakistan. He ist by far the best English player.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    I was in the stadium when Joe Root scored 254 runs against Pakistan. He ist by far the best English player.
    That was at home on a flat Old Trafford pitch and England piled on nearly 600 runs! Hence the term 'Home track bully'.

    Nope, not the best batsman since he's been made captain. The following tour of England, Pakistan won the first test and England was in a precarious position in the second test, 4 or 5 down till Buttler made 80no and England made 363.

    This is simply tests alone, take the limited overs and Root doesn't even deserve a slot in the side.

  25. #25
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    Certainly not this day.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
    That was at home on a flat Old Trafford pitch and England piled on nearly 600 runs! Hence the term 'Home track bully'.

    Nope, not the best batsman since he's been made captain. The following tour of England, Pakistan won the first test and England was in a precarious position in the second test, 4 or 5 down till Buttler made 80no and England made 363.

    This is simply tests alone, take the limited overs and Root doesn't even deserve a slot in the side.
    Mate he scored 2 consecutive hundreds against Ind. He more than deserves his spot in LOI

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Certainly not this day.
    What do you think should be England batting lineup going ahead?

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
    He's not even the best batsman in the England squad.
    Then who is?

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    What do you think should be England batting lineup going ahead?
    The openers are the problem. Burns looks halfway ok but Jennings must be dropped. Dunno who to include - maybe Roy. Bairstow is a good ODI opener but I would drop him from the test side. He gets bowled too often to bat up the order and is not the best keeper.

    Denly has done enough to be picked against Ireland, but I might bring back Bell. He was dropped far too early.

    I would take the captaincy off Root as we desperately need his run power back, and give it to the quietly impressive Buttler.

    Stokes six, Foakes seven and Moeen eight, though I would promote Moeen under some circumstances.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    The openers are the problem. Burns looks halfway ok but Jennings must be dropped. Dunno who to include - maybe Roy. Bairstow is a good ODI opener but I would drop him from the test side. He gets bowled too often to bat up the order and is not the best keeper.

    Denly has done enough to be picked against Ireland, but I might bring back Bell. He was dropped far too early.

    I would take the captaincy off Root as we desperately need his run power back, and give it to the quietly impressive Buttler.

    Stokes six, Foakes seven and Moeen eight, though I would promote Moeen under some circumstances.
    So, no Bairstow, Root at 4 and Buttler at 5?

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    So, no Bairstow, Root at 4 and Buttler at 5?
    Yep, Bairstow has never fulfilled his test potential despite numerous chances. Keep him as a ODI player.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
    He's not even the best batsman in the England squad.
    Wouldn't be so sure right now, eh?


    Politics trumps intelligence (pun intended).

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Certainly not this day.
    Quote Originally Posted by Haroon786 View Post
    Wouldn't be so sure right now, eh?
    Against a depleted West Indies attack when the team is in a strong position. The fighting 50s from Stokes and Buttler were the more valuable innings.

    Root fans can clutch straws and go waxlyrical over these far few in between innings. He's no more a game changer like Williamson or Kohli.

    Root needs to be relieved of captaincy in order for him to get back to his batting best. Or we'll see a one half decent knock every series in order to quench the thirst for die hard fans while the team loses another away series.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
    Against a depleted West Indies attack when the team is in a strong position. The fighting 50s from Stokes and Buttler were the more valuable innings.

    Root fans can clutch straws and go waxlyrical over these far few in between innings. He's no more a game changer like Williamson or Kohli.

    Root needs to be relieved of captaincy in order for him to get back to his batting best. Or we'll see a one half decent knock every series in order to quench the thirst for die hard fans while the team loses another away series.
    Hmm, so fifties are better than centuries? 120 away is “half-decent”? A bloke averaging 50 isn’t as good as a bloke averaging below 40?

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Hmm, so fifties are better than centuries? 120 away is “half-decent”? A bloke averaging 50 isn’t as good as a bloke averaging below 40?
    Depends on when and where it was scored. England won the 3rd test by 230 runs odd, a hundred or a double century makes no difference. Root walked out to bat when England had a good lead, there was no pressure. Root's average has fallen to 40 since captaincy. If this is oblivious to everyone then fine, but this will keep costing the side.

    Bravo's 200 ball 50 in the second test is a far more worthwhile innings than the Root century.

  36. #36
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    Definitely not. He is sadly a half-century fiend though, not enough of his innings are converted into tons.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
    Depends on when and where it was scored. England won the 3rd test by 230 runs odd, a hundred or a double century makes no difference. Root walked out to bat when England had a good lead, there was no pressure. Root's average has fallen to 40 since captaincy. If this is oblivious to everyone then fine, but this will keep costing the side.

    Bravo's 200 ball 50 in the second test is a far more worthwhile innings than the Root century.
    But who is the better England batter than Root? Even averaging 40 as skipper he is the best.

  38. #38
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    Ivan not calling Root htb but there is a case you can still average 42 and can be called htb, example Sehwag, average around 45 in 52 test match with 10 hundreds ( Root only 4 in 38) and most people called sehwag Htb

  39. #39
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    I am* not Ivan

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
    Against a depleted West Indies attack when the team is in a strong position. The fighting 50s from Stokes and Buttler were the more valuable innings.

    Root fans can clutch straws and go waxlyrical over these far few in between innings. He's no more a game changer like Williamson or Kohli.

    Root needs to be relieved of captaincy in order for him to get back to his batting best. Or we'll see a one half decent knock every series in order to quench the thirst for die hard fans while the team loses another away series.
    Yeah sure his record is probably not anywhere near the likes of Smith and Kohli but he's definitely decent and able to bat well away from home aside from his conversion issues.


    Politics trumps intelligence (pun intended).


  41. #41
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    Terrible away hundred yesterday, scoring at the same rate as Gayle. Never even hit any sixes.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Terrible away hundred yesterday, scoring at the same rate as Gayle. Never even hit any sixes.
    Strong Hundred, but what were West Indies doing in the field yesterday? Ashley Nurse these days cant catch a flu even!

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rana View Post
    Strong Hundred, but what were West Indies doing in the field yesterday? Ashley Nurse these days cant catch a flu even!
    England did the basics yesterday, catching better and running between the wickets.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Terrible away hundred yesterday, scoring at the same rate as Gayle. Never even hit any sixes.
    I thought Jamodis don't count for English fans?

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikhil_cric View Post
    I thought Jamodis don't count for English fans?
    Wouldn’t know as {Robert} =/= {English fans}.

    There are a lot of JAMODI fans on PP however, and Root has scored a century away.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Wouldn’t know as {Robert} =/= {English fans}.

    There are a lot of JAMODI fans on PP however, and Root has scored a century away.
    Well I remember you , specifically, saying that Jamodis don't matter. Or is that malleable when it comes to English cricketers - depending on whatever format they are actually performing in ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikhil_cric View Post
    Well I remember you , specifically, saying that Jamodis don't matter. Or is that malleable when it comes to English cricketers - depending on whatever format they are actually performing in ?
    It's the same on Reddit too. English suddenly love ODIs more than tests lol

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikhil_cric View Post
    Well I remember you , specifically, saying that Jamodis don't matter. Or is that malleable when it comes to English cricketers - depending on whatever format they are actually performing in ?
    No. Of course I like to see England win in whatever format but would give up every LO win for more test series victories. I will always hold tests to be the gold standard.

    That’s by-the-by, as Root has just scored away centuries in two successive innings.


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