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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patriot View Post
    In a recent survey, 43% of Israeli Jews claimed they were secular Jews, about half of which believed in God. Some of them are likely to be Atheist Jews. I think Zionism is the prevailing ideology for them claiming a homeland as opposed to religion.
    They always contradict themselves. Israel claims to be secular, yet it also claims to be Jewish state. It claims it's a modern democracy yet it claims land in the west bank is soley theirs. You cannot reason with such extremist clowns. Zionism is the ideology but most Jews are Zionists, this is a fact.


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  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    They always contradict themselves. Israel claims to be secular, yet it also claims to be Jewish state. It claims it's a modern democracy yet it claims land in the west bank is soley theirs. You cannot reason with such extremist clowns. Zionism is the ideology but most Jews are Zionists, this is a fact.
    I think it needs to be made clear that there is a difference between a Jew who follows Judaism and a Jew who is of the Jewish race. For example, there is the possibility of someone being a Jewish Muslim or a Jewish Atheist or a Jewish Christian but you can’t have a Muslim Hindu or a Muslim Atheist, etc. So when they say they are Jewish, they may not be referring to Judaism.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patriot View Post
    I think it needs to be made clear that there is a difference between a Jew who follows Judaism and a Jew who is of the Jewish race. For example, there is the possibility of someone being a Jewish Muslim or a Jewish Atheist or a Jewish Christian but you can’t have a Muslim Hindu or a Muslim Atheist, etc. So when they say they are Jewish, they may not be referring to Judaism.
    Again, it's all contraditions. Jews claim to be a race , they may have genes from other Jews going back 1000 years but Jews are those who follow Judaism, it's a religous term. There are black Jews but you canot be a Muslim Jew, you either believe in Islam or Judaism. This is done so any critcrism esp in western nations is then seen as racism. Jews are now saying any criticism of Israel is also racism lol.


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  4. #84
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    Black Jews are those who follow the religion Judaism and are not of the Jewish race. Itís why they are treated as second class citizens in Israel. However, the Jewish race is clearly established and is agreed. Hence you can be a Jewish Muslim, I.e. someone who is of the Jewish race but has converted to Islam.

    Even the Quran establishes the Jewish race, by referring to them as Bani Israel.
    Last edited by Patriot; 13th November 2019 at 03:42.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patriot View Post
    Black Jews are those who follow the religion Judaism and are not of the Jewish race. It’s why they are treated as second class citizens in Israel. However, the Jewish race is clearly established and is agreed in science. Hence you can be a Jewish Muslim, I.e. someone who is of the Jewish race but has converted to Islam.

    Even the Quran establishes the Jewish race, by referring to them as Bani Israel.
    No offence bro but please dont use the Quran unless you are 100% sure on what the meaning is. The Quran actually stops referring to them as Bani Israel and then refers to them Jews. This implies once they were exiled they were no longer Gods people but now they are known as Jews who have made alliances with Chrisitians, meaning they are Zionists now. This is the great knowledge of God who ofcouse is the knower of all and predicted this. Bani Israel is not the same as Jews, different beliefs, ideologies.

    The Quran does not say Jews are a race. If my family have been Muslims for 600 years, does this mean I am from the Muslim race?


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  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    No offence bro but please dont use the Quran unless you are 100% sure on what the meaning is. The Quran actually stops referring to them as Bani Israel and then refers to them Jews. This implies once they were exiled they were no longer Gods people but now they are known as Jews who have made alliances with Chrisitians, meaning they are Zionists now. This is the great knowledge of God who ofcouse is the knower of all and predicted this. Bani Israel is not the same as Jews, different beliefs, ideologies.

    The Quran does not say Jews are a race. If my family have been Muslims for 600 years, does this mean I am from the Muslim race?
    Allah makes subtle changes to differentiate. Yahud is used for all Jews, I.e. those who follow the religion. Bani Israel is for the tribe/race which is Jewish.

    The Jews (race) are decedents of Ishaq and Arabs are the descendants of Ismail, hence why both are referred to as Semitic people. People who convert to the religion aren’t of the Jewish race.

    The difference is that Judaism started off with the Bani Israel. They have never really expanded, i.e. not many converts to the religion (with some exceptions). They kept the religion to be within their race. Hence why it’s easier to identify them. This is not the same with Christianity or Islam which has spread so much and hence why you can’t say the Muslim race.

  7. #87
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    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/islam...answers/225721

    This answer in IslamQA traces their history and explains how the original Jews (sons of Yaqub AS) are the ancestors of the Jewish tribes who followed Musa AS and eventually took over the holy land.

  8. #88
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    It shows clear descent and unlike Islam or Christianity, there is no examples of mass conversions. Judaism did not spread as much as Islam or Christianity across the globe and stayed within the tribes of Israel or Bani Israel. Hence why they are different and can claim to be part of the Jewish race as opposed to Muslims being part of a single race.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patriot View Post
    Allah makes subtle changes to differentiate. Yahud is used for all Jews, I.e. those who follow the religion. Bani Israel is for the tribe/race which is Jewish.

    The Jews (race) are decedents of Ishaq and Arabs are the descendants of Ismail, hence why both are referred to as Semitic people. People who convert to the religion aren’t of the Jewish race.

    The difference is that Judaism started off with the Bani Israel. They have never really expanded, i.e. not many converts to the religion (with some exceptions). They kept the religion to be within their race. Hence why it’s easier to identify them. This is not the same with Christianity or Islam which has spread so much and hence why you can’t say the Muslim race.
    Quote Originally Posted by Patriot View Post
    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/islam...answers/225721

    This answer in IslamQA traces their history and explains how the original Jews (sons of Yaqub AS) are the ancestors of the Jewish tribes who followed Musa AS and eventually took over the holy land.
    IslamQA is not a single authority, I never use this site because it follows an ideology which has only been around for 200 years. Israelites were followers of monotheistic ideology but once they broke the covenent, they were expelled so no longer are refered to as Bani Israel but Jews because of their sinful acts , i/e money lending on interest etc. The Quran also says do not make friends with Jews who are friends with Christians, who is this refering too?

    Quote Originally Posted by Patriot View Post
    It shows clear descent and unlike Islam or Christianity, there is no examples of mass conversions. Judaism did not spread as much as Islam or Christianity across the globe and stayed within the tribes of Israel or Bani Israel. Hence why they are different and can claim to be part of the Jewish race as opposed to Muslims being part of a single race.
    Irrelevant. There are Muslims who have had Muslim ansectors going back to the time of the Prophet(pbuh), over 1400 years, so why arent they a Muslim race? How many years does it need to be?


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  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    IslamQA is not a single authority, I never use this site because it follows an ideology which has only been around for 200 years. Israelites were followers of monotheistic ideology but once they broke the covenent, they were expelled so no longer are refered to as Bani Israel but Jews because of their sinful acts , i/e money lending on interest etc. The Quran also says do not make friends with Jews who are friends with Christians, who is this refering too?



    Irrelevant. There are Muslims who have had Muslim ansectors going back to the time of the Prophet(pbuh), over 1400 years, so why arent they a Muslim race? How many years does it need to be?
    Because they are called Arabs. If Islam had stayed within the Arabs, then Muslim would be the same as Arab.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patriot View Post
    Because they are called Arabs. If Islam had stayed within the Arabs, then Muslim would be the same as Arab.
    This is a flawed argument.

    Race is not considered by numbers or regions but DNA. Your view is because Islam was more succesful, they cant be race. Please think what you are writing here, makes no sense at all. I know what you are trying to say but you are just plain wrong. Yes Jews are considered a race but they are not. In fact most Jews today have no connection to the Bani Israel in terms of dna. Here is the proof.

    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2013...riginate-italy


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    This is a flawed argument.

    Race is not considered by numbers or regions but DNA. Your view is because Islam was more succesful, they cant be race. Please think what you are writing here, makes no sense at all. I know what you are trying to say but you are just plain wrong. Yes Jews are considered a race but they are not. In fact most Jews today have no connection to the Bani Israel in terms of dna. Here is the proof.

    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2013...riginate-italy
    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2010...ots-jewishness

    And this article from the same Journal says the opposite. To deny them their race is anti-Semitic and racist.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    This is a flawed argument.

    Race is not considered by numbers or regions but DNA. Your view is because Islam was more succesful, they cant be race. Please think what you are writing here, makes no sense at all. I know what you are trying to say but you are just plain wrong. Yes Jews are considered a race but they are not. In fact most Jews today have no connection to the Bani Israel in terms of dna. Here is the proof.

    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2013...riginate-italy
    That’s not my view. My view is that non Arabs became Muslims, hence why you can’t refer to Muslims as a single race. Pushtoon Muslims aren’t the same as Anglo Saxon Muslims.

    However, with Judaism, other races did not convert outside of the decedents of Jacob/Yaqoob AS with exceptions. Those that did were few and far between. Therefore, you can say that modern Jews are the descendants of the original tribes of Israel. The article I posted is one study that agrees with this.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patriot View Post
    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2010...ots-jewishness

    And this article from the same Journal says the opposite. To deny them their race is anti-Semitic and racist.
    Interesting thanks, I was thinking a while back this chap may change his mind after the heavy backlash.

    Perhaps we need an new independent research but either way, my principle still stands of you Judaism is a religion not a race. A Jew is only someone who believes in Judaism otherwise there would be Mulsim Jews and by the same argument, there would be Muslim athiests, it would be absurd.

    Lets disagree.

    Im still waiting for you to show me why Hamas is worse than Israel. I've read some strange statements but this is right up there. Please detail as much as you can, strong arguments or take back your claim.


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  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patriot View Post
    That’s not my view. My view is that non Arabs became Muslims, hence why you can’t refer to Muslims as a single race. Pushtoon Muslims aren’t the same as Anglo Saxon Muslims.

    However, with Judaism, other races did not convert outside of the decedents of Jacob/Yaqoob AS with exceptions. Those that did were few and far between. Therefore, you can say that modern Jews are the descendants of the original tribes of Israel. The article I posted is one study that agrees with this.
    I can post a number of studies to refute yours, we will be going in circles.

    If you want to believe you can be a Jewish Muslim, well there is nothing I can say to change this. lol

    Lets stick to the conflict as with my post above.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    Interesting thanks, I was thinking a while back this chap may change his mind after the heavy backlash.

    Perhaps we need an new independent research but either way, my principle still stands of you Judaism is a religion not a race. A Jew is only someone who believes in Judaism otherwise there would be Mulsim Jews and by the same argument, there would be Muslim athiests, it would be absurd.

    Lets disagree.

    Im still waiting for you to show me why Hamas is worse than Israel. I've read some strange statements but this is right up there. Please detail as much as you can, strong arguments or take back your claim.
    I don’t know about who is worse but I detest Hamas as an organisation. However I will agree with you that Hamas is a product of Israel’s actions and that in the long run, Israel has committed a number of atrocities. For example, I can’t believe someone in this thread defending what Israel has done, including them shooting dead Palestinians. As if putting holes in people who have been killed is OK. It made me sick.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    I can post a number of studies to refute yours, we will be going in circles.

    If you want to believe you can be a Jewish Muslim, well there is nothing I can say to change this. lol

    Lets stick to the conflict as with my post above.
    What would you call a Jew who converts to Islam?

    Btw, most organisations that provide DNA results through people providing saliva samples, categorise Jew as a race. For example, someone being 20% Anglo Saxon and 80% Jewish, they would categorise it.

    You are right that we are going in circles and there is no point arguing over it.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patriot View Post
    What would you call a Jew who converts to Islam?

    Btw, most organisations that provide DNA results through people providing saliva samples, categorise Jew as a race. For example, someone being 20% Anglo Saxon and 80% Jewish, they would categorise it.

    You are right that we are going in circles and there is no point arguing over it.
    A Muslim. Those labels , definitions or whatever are refering to ones belief. Even if they had 100% dna to the holy land, they would still be a Muslim. Besides everyone has the same dna to some extent, all humans ever born have had the same DNA in some parts.

    Sure, thanks for the discussion. Apologies for any offence.

    Perhaps listening to Noam Chomsky who is a Jew, will give you some non-propaganda information.



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  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    A Muslim. Those labels , definitions or whatever are refering to ones belief. Even if they had 100% dna to the holy land, they would still be a Muslim. Besides everyone has the same dna to some extent, all humans ever born have had the same DNA in some parts.

    Sure, thanks for the discussion. Apologies for any offence.

    Perhaps listening to Noam Chomsky who is a Jew, will give you some non-propaganda information.

    I know of Chomsky and he is one of the greatest intellectuals alive today.

    Interestingly, did you know that Chomsky doesn’t support BDS. He only supports boycott of goods which come from illegal settlements. Where Israel produces goods which has nothing to do with illegal settlements, he has no issues with that. I actually agree with him on that. Why penalise all Israelis because not all are involved in atrocities against the Palestinians.

  20. #100
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    GAZA CITY: Exchanges of fire triggered by Israel’s targeted killing of a top militant in Gaza raged for a second day on Wednesday and showed little sign of easing as the Palestinian death toll shot up to 23.

    Fresh rocket barrages were fired at Israel, which responded with strikes on what it said were Islamic Jihad militant sites and rocket-launching squads in the Gaza Strip.

    On Wednesday afternoon, it said it targeted two Islamic Jihad militants preparing to fire anti-tank missiles.

    Air raid sirens wailed and fireballs exploded as air defence missiles intercepted rockets, sending Israelis rushing to bomb shelters.

    In Gaza, residents surveyed damage and mourned the dead outside a mortuary and at funerals.

    UN envoy Nickolay Mladenov was to hold talks in Cairo on halting the fighting, a diplomatic source said, but a source close to the discussions aimed at mediating a truce warned that the risk of further escalation remained high.

    Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Islamic Jihad must stop its stop rocket attacks or “absorb more and more blows”.

    He reiterated his warning that “this could take time” and said Israel would respond to attacks “without mercy”.

    Islamic Jihad spokesman Musab al-Barayem said the group was not interested in mediation for now as it retaliated to the killing of one of its commanders.

    Israel killed senior Islamic Jihad commander Baha Abu al-Ata and his wife Asma in a targeted strike early on Tuesday, prompting barrages of ***-for-tat rocket fire and air strikes.

    According to Israel, Ata was responsible for rocket fire at Israel as well as other attacks and was planning more violence, with the military calling him a “ticking bomb.” The flare-up raised fears of a new all-out conflict between Israel and Palestinian militants in Gaza, who have fought three wars since 2008.

    A total of 23 Palestinians have been killed so far, including Ata and his wife, according to Gaza’s Hamas-run health ministry.

    Islamic Jihad confirmed the dead included other members of its armed wing, while the health ministry said three children were also among the dead, and that more than 70 people were injured.

    Since Israel’s killing of Ata in what was believed to be a drone strike, at least 220 rockets have been fired into Israel from Gaza and dozens have been intercepted by air defences, according to the army.

    There have been no Israeli deaths, though damage has been caused and one rocket narrowly missed cars on a busy highway.

    Israeli medics said they had treated 48 people with light wounds, while schools were closed in areas near the Gaza border for a second day running.

    Schools in the blockaded Gaza Strip, an enclave of two million people, have been closed since Tuesday.

    Unusually and in a sign it was seeking to avoid a wider conflict, Israel’s announced targets were confined to Islamic Jihad sites and not those belonging to Hamas.

    It normally holds Hamas, the Islamist movement that rules the Gaza Strip, responsible for all rocket fire from the enclave as the territory’s de facto rulers.

    Israeli analysts were quick to highlight the change of approach.

    “For the first time in the current era, Israel drew a distinction between Hamas and Islamic Jihad,” commentator Ben Caspit wrote in Israeli newspaper Maariv.

    “By so doing, Israel deviated from its iron-clad principle that Hamas, as the sovereign power in Gaza, has to pay the price for any action taken by anyone in the Gaza Strip. That is now no longer the case.” Islamic Jihad is the second most-powerful militant group in the Gaza Strip after Hamas and has taken responsibility for rocket fire. Hamas, however, said it would not abandon its ally.

    “As long as the Israeli warplanes bomb the Gaza Strip, the resistance will respond to the Israeli aggression and defend the Palestinian people,” a joint statement from Gaza militant groups said. The flare-up comes at a politically sensitive time for Israel.

    A Sept 17 general election ended in a deadlock and a new government is yet to be formed.

    It was the second election since April, when polls also ended inconclusively.

    The violence has drawn international calls for calm.

    Britain’s Foreign Office said: “We call on all sides to rapidly de-escalate the situation, and support the UN and Egyptian efforts to achieve that objective.”
    Source: https://www.dawn.com/news/1516606/ga...ion-aggravates.


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  21. #101
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    A ceasefire between Israel and militants in Gaza appears to be holding, despite the launch of several rockets hours after it took effect.

    The truce ended two days of intense fighting in which militants fired some 450 rockets towards Israel and Israeli aircraft carried out waves of strikes.

    Early on Thursday, a family of eight were killed in an air strike in Gaza.

    The fighting left 34 Palestinians dead and 111 injured in total, while 63 Israelis needed medical treatment.

    The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) said 25 of the Palestinian fatalities were militants.
    The escalation began on Tuesday when a senior commander of Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ), Baha Abu al-Ata, and his wife were killed in an Israeli air strike.

    The Israeli prime minister said Abu al-Ata was "responsible for most of the terror attacks in the last year from the Gaza Strip" and called him a "ticking bomb".

    PIJ spokesman Musab al-Buraim said early on Thursday that it had agreed to a ceasefire brokered by Egypt after Israel was "forced to accept the conditions set by the Palestinian resistance".

    Those conditions were to stop "assassination operations" and the use of live fire against protesters near the Gaza border fence, and to start implementing steps to end the blockade of Gaza, he added.

    Israel did not publicly confirm the ceasefire, but Foreign Minister Israel Katz told Army Radio that "quiet will be answered with quiet".
    He also said he considered it a "matter of success" that the dominant militant group in Gaza, Hamas, had not been involved in the hostilities.

    Public Security Minister Gilad Erdan denied any concessions had been made to PIJ, tweeting that the group "wanted a ceasefire and it received no commitments in exchange".

    IDF Spokesman Brig Gen Hidai Zilberman said its operation in Gaza, dubbed "Black Belt", had achieved all of its objectives.

    "With a combination of military personnel from a variety of units who specialize in SIGINT [signals intelligence], HUMINT [human intelligence], we were able to attack cells and close the circle against targets very quickly. That's what killed 25 terrorists who were in the midst of carrying out hostile activity," he added.

    UN Middle East peace envoy Nickolay Mladenov said both the UN and Egypt had "worked hard to prevent the most dangerous escalation in and around Gaza from leading to war" and called on all sides to "show maximum restraint".

    However, five rockets were launched from Gaza about five hours after the ceasefire came into effect, the IDF said. Two were intercepted by the Iron Dome air defence system.

    There were no immediate reports of any injuries or damage.

    In the late afternoon, rocket alert sirens sounded in Israeli communities near the Gaza border and the IDF said another rocket was shot down.

    Meanwhile, Gaza's health ministry said eight members of the Abu Malhous family, including five children and two women, were killed in an Israeli air strike on a house in Deir al-Balah, in central Gaza, before dawn on Thursday.

    The ministry said the dead were all civilians. But the IDF insisted that the head of the family, Rasmi Abu Malhous, was a commander of a PIJ rocket-launching unit.

    "He was an Islamic Jihad commander and he, like many others, had the tactic of hiding ammunition and military infrastructure in their own residence," spokesman Lt Col Jonathan Conricus told AFP news agency. "Of course we try always to minimise the amount of non-combatants killed or injured."

    A neighbour, Mohammed Mazro, disputed the IDF's account.

    "They were children, civilians, not militants and they have nothing to do with politics," he told AFP. "They were innocent people, asleep. We were shocked by four rockets landing on the tin house, this is not normal."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-50414810

  22. #102
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    GAZA CITY: Israel targeted Hamas in air strikes on Gaza early on Saturday after rockets were fired at it from the Palestinian enclave, the army said, two days after a fragile ceasefire began.

    Hamas, the Islamist movement that has de facto control over the Gaza Strip, had been spared the brunt of Israeli bombardment during this week’s flare-up which focused on its hardline ally Islamic Jihad.

    A ceasefire has been in place since Thursday morning following the wave of ***-of-tat air strikes and rocket fire between Israel and Islamic Jihad — the territory’s second most powerful militant group.

    The army said it launched Saturday’s strikes after “two rockets were fired from the Gaza Strip towards Israeli territory” and were intercepted by air defences. It was not immediately known who fired the rockets.

    Palestinian security sources said the Israeli strikes were aimed at two Hamas sites in the north of the territory.

    “Among the sites targeted was a military camp of the Hamas terror organisation and a military compound used by the Hamas naval forces,” a statement from the Israeli military said.

    “In addition an underground terror infrastructure was also targeted.” There were no reports of casualties.

    It was the first time Hamas had been hit since this week’s escalation began with Israel’s targeted killing of a top Islamic Jihad commander early on Tuesday.

    That strike triggered almost immediate retaliatory rocket fire from Islamic Jihad, which set off air-raid sirens and sent Israelis rushing to bomb shelters in the country’s southern and central regions.

    The Israeli military said around 450 rockets were fired at its territory during the fighting and air defences intercepted dozens of them.

    The military responded with air strikes it said targeted Islamic Jihad militant sites and rocket- and missile-launching squads.

    After two days of fighting which killed 34 Palestinians and no Israelis, a ceasefire was agreed.

    But it has so far been precarious, with fire coming from both sides after the agreement went into effect.

    There have been three wars since 2008 between Israel and Palestinian militants in the blockaded territory which is home to some two million people.

    Israeli analysts said that the focus on Islamic Jihad rather than Hamas earlier this week was a clear signal that the army sought to avoid a major new conflict.

    Hamas repeatedly said it would not abandon its ally, but keeping out of the fighting helped it maintain a fragile truce with Israel that has seen tens of millions of dollars in Qatari aid flow into Gaza since last year. It was criticised in Gaza for not joining the fighting.

    Likewise, Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu came under fire from political rivals at home for not holding Hamas accountable for attacks from the territory it rules.

    The violence came at a politically sensitive time for Israel, with no new government in place since a September election ended in deadlock.

    On Thursday, Israeli military spokesman Jonathan Conricus told reporters that the army had “wanted to keep Hamas out of the fighting”.

    “Throughout the operation, we of course distinguished between Hamas and Islamic Jihad, and all of our operations were measured, proportionate and focused only on military assets belonging to Islamic Jihad,” he said.

    But there was a marked shift in tone in Saturday’s statement.

    The military said it “holds the Hamas terror organisation responsible for events transpiring in the Gaza Strip and emanating from it”.

    “Hamas will bear the consequences for actions against Israeli civilians.”
    Source: https://www.dawn.com/news/1517198/is...er-rocket-fire.


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