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  1. #1
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    The biggest difference between two sides is actually fielding

    if we held on to all the catches and saved the same fours/sixes that England saved, we could have won.

  2. #2
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    I’ve been saying this since the T20...

    Forget the drop catches, just look st the fumbles..
    8 runs given through stupid midfields on top of numerous singles from silly fumbles...

    That was the difference

  3. #3
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    Fielding lost us this game big time. Junaid at third man was especially pathetic.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by IMMY69 View Post
    I’ve been saying this since the T20...

    Forget the drop catches, just look st the fumbles..
    8 runs given through stupid midfields on top of numerous singles from silly fumbles...

    That was the difference
    not to forget:
    - clowny overthrows
    - not appealing for catch
    - throwing ball past other incoming fielder
    - letting balls through for 4

    plus while batting we hardly ever put their fielders on pressure by attempting to run hard, etc.

  5. #5
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    I'd say the bowling and batting as well. I would pick England's batsmen and bowlers over Pakistan's most days of the week.


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

  6. #6
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    Apart from fielding, England bat really deep and that gives the license to the top order to play freely and they still continue to play freely even when they lose a few quick wickets knowing full well they have very good batting options to come in the lower order.

    To me this is the biggest difference between the sides.

  7. #7
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    The margins are really narrow at this level. So I would agree that the fielding hasn’t helped.

  8. #8
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    Difference between Pakistan and almost all good cricketing nations

  9. #9
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    Definitely - PAK players don't enjoy fielding, no passion either, therefore in crunch moments, it'll always bite back.

    But, I saw the game from 190-1 or so, have to say PAK Captain is a first class tool. His ****** will bite back for this for sure in next opportunity, but man, this guy has lost every balls of his. How could a team allow last 5 wickets to add 120 at 7.5/over and they did it comfortably!!!!

  10. #10
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    That's what I'm most surpirsed about, our fielding has been pathetic. I thought this had changed since Mickey became coach but seems that's not the case. Our bowling and batting haven't been that compared to our fielding. Something needs to be done and done quick.


    Does cricket survive off of it's money or does it survive for it's money?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    Apart from fielding, England bat really deep and that gives the license to the top order to play freely and they still continue to play freely even when they lose a few quick wickets knowing full well they have very good batting options to come in the lower order.

    To me this is the biggest difference between the sides.
    Most players, with hard work and practice, can become a decent fielder.
    Not everyone can become a class batsmen or bowler by just practicing...

    The most basic thing every player should get right is their fielding.
    We’re not saying they should become like Jonty Rhodes, all they have to do is the basics..

    In a game like today’s we lost because we couldn’t do the basics..
    I would say this applies to the last game too.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    Definitely - PAK players don't enjoy fielding, no passion either, therefore in crunch moments, it'll always bite back.

    But, I saw the game from 190-1 or so, have to say PAK Captain is a first class tool. His ****** will bite back for this for sure in next opportunity, but man, this guy has lost every balls of his. How could a team allow last 5 wickets to add 120 at 7.5/over and they did it comfortably!!!!
    I was sure Pakistan had won at 216 for 5.

    But Sarfraz proved that he can even allow teams to chase 360 if the day requires.


    And I get so high.. And I just can't feel it....

  13. #13
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    If I was mickey Arthur Id get them out of bed 3am in the morning and get them To do laps around the stadium until they can no longer run. We shall see how many catches they drop after that

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    Definitely - PAK players don't enjoy fielding, no passion either, therefore in crunch moments, it'll always bite back.

    But, I saw the game from 190-1 or so, have to say PAK Captain is a first class tool. His ****** will bite back for this for sure in next opportunity, but man, this guy has lost every balls of his. How could a team allow last 5 wickets to add 120 at 7.5/over and they did it comfortably!!!!
    We had no homework as well.. We had no plan.. Junaid Khan served pies to Tom Curran what was he thinking that he is a Pakistani tailender

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by aloo paratha View Post
    That's what I'm most surpirsed about, our fielding has been pathetic. I thought this had changed since Mickey became coach but seems that's not the case. Our bowling and batting haven't been that compared to our fielding. Something needs to be done and done quick.
    Ever since the old coach left because surprise, surprise, we didn't give him salaries on time, so he just didn't renew contract, we have been pathetic in the field

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Bassim View Post
    I was sure Pakistan had won at 216 for 5.

    But Sarfraz proved that he can even allow teams to chase 360 if the day requires.
    Sarfraz is a horrible tactician.

    Him bowling Fakhar Zaman and Shadab to Pandya was criminal in 2017.

  17. #17
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    Biggest difference is they don't have selfish players like Babar and Imam then comes fielding.. give them babar and Imam and you go with Haris and Abid and you will defeat England...

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farhan93 View Post
    Biggest difference is they don't have selfish players like Babar and Imam then comes fielding.. give them babar and Imam and you go with Haris and Abid and you will defeat England...
    When Imam was trying to remain not out in last two overs and ducking the short balls and playing for singles , that cost Pakistan about 10-12 runs, the difference win and loss.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by moghul View Post
    When Imam was trying to remain not out in last two overs and ducking the short balls and playing for singles , that cost Pakistan about 10-12 runs, the difference win and loss.
    you will see more of this with Imam and Babar in the team in coming months and years...Even Bangladesh will thrash Pakistan as their players are not as selfish

  20. #20
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    I think theres an issue in all 3 depts Nothing major to rectify but even if we improve 10% in each dept this series was winnable

    The batting has been a little short in every game They needed to be proactive from the word go and get that extra 20 singles
    The dot percentages need to be cut down at the moment its about 40% (120 balls) and should be no more than 33% (100 balls)

    The fielding was lousy If we had taken most of our dropz and misfields again thats another 20-25 runs a game The poor fielders need to be sent home and more work done with the rest

    And finally the bowling The lacks of plans Poor thinking and hardly any yorkers ended up costing us in at least 2 gamez England would would bowl wide yorkers or bumpers It seems like the pakistani bowlers just ran up and hoped for the best

  21. #21
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    This is why Shadab is a necessity...

    Completely agree about the fielding...the number of runs Bairstow saved for instance was immense...our guys on the boundary were complete liabilities...

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    Definitely - PAK players don't enjoy fielding, no passion either, therefore in crunch moments, it'll always bite back.

    But, I saw the game from 190-1 or so, have to say PAK Captain is a first class tool. His ****** will bite back for this for sure in next opportunity, but man, this guy has lost every balls of his. How could a team allow last 5 wickets to add 120 at 7.5/over and they did it comfortably!!!!
    Captain fantastic has a history of this. Bangladesh 12-3 , they get to 240 and win the game. Against SA when he abuse Andile he allowed him and his partner to win the game at 80 for 5 . They chased down 220 odd without breaking sweat.

    These ****** still praising his captaincy!!!!!!!!

  23. #23
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    Your bowling is equally bad if not worse. Batting has improved a lot though, I am actually surprised by the high strike rates of Pak batsmen this series.

  24. #24
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    100% you can't drop dollies like we have and make stupid ground fielding errors and expect to win matches. Especially today had we fielded half decently we would have won.


    IN PAKISTAN LIES OUR DELIVERANCE,DEFENCE, AND HONOUR.
    -Muhammad Ali Jinnah

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan123 View Post
    Captain fantastic has a history of this. Bangladesh 12-3 , they get to 240 and win the game. Against SA when he abuse Andile he allowed him and his partner to win the game at 80 for 5 . They chased down 220 odd without breaking sweat.

    These ****** still praising his captaincy!!!!!!!!
    Yeah can't wait till the end of the world cup, but then again knowing PCB and their track record with picking captains you never know who they might pick next. I mean our last 3 ODI captains have been Misbah, Azhar, and Sarfraz. So you just never know, hopefully they pick a captain who makes the playing XI on merit at the very least. It has to be one of Fakhar, Babar or Imam in my opinion because at least they all make the team on merit. Honestly looking forward to grooming a young captain, a lot of people give Imam flack but the guy makes the team on merit, he's young, he's hungry for runs, and he wants to win Pakistan games so I wouldn't mind if he is made captain. Hopefully the PCB doesn't mess up once again and pick a good captain after the World Cup. Can't remember the last time we have had a consistently good ODI Captain. Like guys like Afridi, Misbah, and even Sarfraz have had their moments when they've led the team to some good wins but overall they weren't great captains as the records show. So we really need to hope we find a good captain for the future after world cup who we can be patient with.


    IN PAKISTAN LIES OUR DELIVERANCE,DEFENCE, AND HONOUR.
    -Muhammad Ali Jinnah

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by QalandarFan View Post
    Yeah can't wait till the end of the world cup, but then again knowing PCB and their track record with picking captains you never know who they might pick next. I mean our last 3 ODI captains have been Misbah, Azhar, and Sarfraz. So you just never know, hopefully they pick a captain who makes the playing XI on merit at the very least. It has to be one of Fakhar, Babar or Imam in my opinion because at least they all make the team on merit. Honestly looking forward to grooming a young captain, a lot of people give Imam flack but the guy makes the team on merit, he's young, he's hungry for runs, and he wants to win Pakistan games so I wouldn't mind if he is made captain. Hopefully the PCB doesn't mess up once again and pick a good captain after the World Cup. Can't remember the last time we have had a consistently good ODI Captain. Like guys like Afridi, Misbah, and even Sarfraz have had their moments when they've led the team to some good wins but overall they weren't great captains as the records show. So we really need to hope we find a good captain for the future after world cup who we can be patient with.
    It's 2 years too late, and now his career is almost on the edge of cliff - BUT, the best (only for me) guy to lead the PAK team post 2018 was Mo Amir. A bowler who'll walk into this squad if fit (I know his stats, but I have seen others beyond stats), can be decent No. 9, may be even No. 8 (PAK played fast bowling all-rounder Faheem Ashraf for 2 years there), and at the right age.

    Sarfraz isn't the worst Captain (considering the previous 3 Captains), but normally you don't appoint WK as Captain because the job is too busy and you don't appoint an unfit, over-weight, clumsy WK Captain at the wrong age, who doesn't make the XI on merit and who is blocking the path of younger prospects for being Captain (By his own confession, Rizwan is unlucky because Sarfraz is Captain).

    His Pankha base is silent today for a reason and still no one has mentioned one critical point - last ball of penultimate over, when 7 needed of 7, Rashid's slash went past Sarfraz for 4 ending the contest there ... to my book, that's a catch most WK should gather, worse one should fist it to 3rd man for a single.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    It's 2 years too late, and now his career is almost on the edge of cliff - BUT, the best (only for me) guy to lead the PAK team post 2018 was Mo Amir. A bowler who'll walk into this squad if fit (I know his stats, but I have seen others beyond stats), can be decent No. 9, may be even No. 8 (PAK played fast bowling all-rounder Faheem Ashraf for 2 years there), and at the right age.

    Sarfraz isn't the worst Captain (considering the previous 3 Captains), but normally you don't appoint WK as Captain because the job is too busy and you don't appoint an unfit, over-weight, clumsy WK Captain at the wrong age, who doesn't make the XI on merit and who is blocking the path of younger prospects for being Captain (By his own confession, Rizwan is unlucky because Sarfraz is Captain).

    His Pankha base is silent today for a reason and still no one has mentioned one critical point - last ball of penultimate over, when 7 needed of 7, Rashid's slash went past Sarfraz for 4 ending the contest there ... to my book, that's a catch most WK should gather, worse one should fist it to 3rd man for a single.
    I agree with you that Amir should have been made captain. Not only did he make the team on merit, but he is also a very smart cricketer. Hence making him captain would have been the logical decision but of course, PCB doesn't think. As for that delivery today, I remember shutting the tv off when it raced away for four. So didn't see how hard or easy a catch it was. Honestly these days Sarfraz looks lost, doesn't know what to do mentally seems finished. It's almost as if he's been told your getting sacked after the World Cup. I'd much rather have a new captain at this point than a guy who looks scared and knows unless he wins the world cup he's getting sacked. It's not good for the team when the captain is scared of defeat it rubs off onto the rest of the players. The biggest mistake for me today was taking Malik off, you don't bring a guy off who's bowling that well. Even if he is a part-timer, at the very least, you keep him on till he gets hit for a couple of boundaries. Not only could giving Malik a few overs given more options at the death; however, but it could also have dismissed Stokes.

    Right now I am eagerly waiting for the end of the world cup too see who is made captain. Fingers crossed we make a youngster captain so that by CWC 2023 we have a shot at winning.


    IN PAKISTAN LIES OUR DELIVERANCE,DEFENCE, AND HONOUR.
    -Muhammad Ali Jinnah

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ritzy_123 View Post
    Difference between Pakistan and almost all good cricketing nations
    Exactly.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by QalandarFan View Post
    Yeah can't wait till the end of the world cup, but then again knowing PCB and their track record with picking captains you never know who they might pick next. I mean our last 3 ODI captains have been Misbah, Azhar, and Sarfraz. So you just never know, hopefully they pick a captain who makes the playing XI on merit at the very least. It has to be one of Fakhar, Babar or Imam in my opinion because at least they all make the team on merit. Honestly looking forward to grooming a young captain, a lot of people give Imam flack but the guy makes the team on merit, he's young, he's hungry for runs, and he wants to win Pakistan games so I wouldn't mind if he is made captain. Hopefully the PCB doesn't mess up once again and pick a good captain after the World Cup. Can't remember the last time we have had a consistently good ODI Captain. Like guys like Afridi, Misbah, and even Sarfraz have had their moments when they've led the team to some good wins but overall they weren't great captains as the records show. So we really need to hope we find a good captain for the future after world cup who we can be patient with.
    Yes PCB could make the wrong decision but as long as the captain makes the team on merit and is performing in his role that is fine for me.

    There needs to be a plan with next appointment. Appointing 30 plus year olds isn't the answer. Needs to be one of the younger players. To be honest I would not be surprised if Imam captained Pakistan one day. Not sure I would want him at the moment but it's something I can see happening.

  30. #30
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    It's worrying as our fielding had improved so much. The 3rd game we could have had a chance if Roy was caught but yesterday's game 110% sure we would have won if our ground fielding wasn't so pathetic

  31. #31
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    Fielding is very much a factor as well.. In every match we give the opposition at least 20 extra runs through comical fielding or throwing/missing the stumps thereby giving runs when their is no need to do it. Other teams are light years ahead of us at fielding.


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan123 View Post
    Yes PCB could make the wrong decision but as long as the captain makes the team on merit and is performing in his role that is fine for me.

    There needs to be a plan with next appointment. Appointing 30 plus year olds isn't the answer. Needs to be one of the younger players. To be honest I would not be surprised if Imam captained Pakistan one day. Not sure I would want him at the moment but it's something I can see happening.
    I wouldn't mind Imam being captain actually, he has the hunger to win Pakistan matches and certainly makes the team on merit. An added bonus is he's only 23 so we can be patient with him. With a 30+ year old captain your looking for answers right away and that generally doesn't happen. Giving captaincy to someone under 25 allows them to develop at the position.
    Last edited by QalandarFan; 19th May 2019 at 08:35.


    IN PAKISTAN LIES OUR DELIVERANCE,DEFENCE, AND HONOUR.
    -Muhammad Ali Jinnah

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by QalandarFan View Post
    I wouldn't mind Imam being captain actually, he has the hunger to win Pakistan matches and certainly makes the team on merit. An added bonus is he's only 23 so we can be patient with him. With a 30+ year old captain your looking for answers right away and that generally doesn't happen. Giving captaincy to someone under 25 allows them to develop at the position.
    He is mentally strong, an asset missing in majority of our players.

    He has the grit and determination to be successful.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chokli View Post
    He is mentally strong, an asset missing in majority of our players.

    He has the grit and determination to be successful.
    Yeah he's like Younis Khan was in Tests, has the unmatched desire and hunger to score runs and succeed.


    IN PAKISTAN LIES OUR DELIVERANCE,DEFENCE, AND HONOUR.
    -Muhammad Ali Jinnah

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    When nothing much is happening with the ball, England changed the momentum with their brilliant fielding. Pakistan should learn from this and improve theirs to be competitive against the top teams.

  36. #36
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    Pakistan could've batted and bowled a bit better throughout the series but the true difference between the two teams has been fielding without any doubt.

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    Just don't expect pakistan to improve... They keep bringing so called experienced senior players at the expence of performing players just for the sake of it... Don't realize if these experienced players were ever that good, they would have brought atleast three world cups home before this one

  38. #38
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    England have already picked up two wickets i.e. Babar Azam and Sarfaraz where our players would have fumbled or been too unfit, unathletic to capitalize on. Mickey Arthur has been on a fitness crusade but ultimately the players have to buy it into the fitness, training and dietary culture. No one in India held a gun to Kohli's head to change his lifestyle, he did it himself and decided to hold himself to a higher standard on his own.

  39. #39
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    Our players never give 100% and they are very careless where English players try to give 200%. Run out of Babar and Sarfraz are one of the prime example.


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