An analysis of why Pakistan keeps losing games of cricket


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  1. #1
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    An analysis of why Pakistan keeps losing games of cricket

    Pakistan is no longer producing world class talent. As a result our unpredictability which once shaded towards winning, is consistently shading the other way. Pakistan is now a bad cricket team. When we bat well, our bowling lets us down. When we bowl well, our batting lets us down. If those two scenarios evade us, our fielding lets us down. This is a classic bad team pattern.

    Despite the many flaws which persist in our system, Pakistan can still win at a high level by putting players in the best possible position to succeed. Although not alone, Pakistan consistently mismanages its batting lineup, bowling lineup, and fielding lineup. Modern Cricket Coaches and Captains suggest the idea of floating lineups. Its utter nonsense that demonstrates a complete disregard for developing a coherent playing strategy and understanding talent. It's lazy!!!

    How does Pakistan maximize the resources at its disposal?

    One, Pakistan must play an 8-6 System. What does that mean? That means playing 8 Batsman and 6 Genuine Bowlers. A Genuine Bowler is a Wicket-Taking Threat who generally bowls 10 overs. Harris Sohail, Fakhar Zaman, and even Shoaib Malik cannot be considered genuine bowlers. There presence gives a captain tactical flexibility and nothing more.

    Two, our best 6 Genuine Bowlers are Mohammad Amir, Wahab Riaz, Hasan Ali, Shadab Khan, Imad Wasim, and Mohammad Hafeez. These players must play irrespective of the conditions. Riaz and Ali are not genuine new ball bowlers, as a result the composition of the bowling lineup should be as such.

    1. Mohammad Amir
    2. Imad Wasim/Mohammad Hafeez
    3. Hasan Ali
    4. Wahab Riaz
    5. Shadab Khan
    6. Imad Wasim/Mohammad Hafeez

    Three, Pakistan does not have 8 Genuine Batsman, but we do have competent lower order batsman who can protect the top and middle order. We also have to understand and accept that only Fakhar Zaman and Asif Ali are naturally attacking batsman. We also must acknowledge that they are limited batsman. As a result, Pakistan has to bowl very well and grind out results because we simply don't have elite match winning batting talent. For the record, Babar Azam is hugely talented, but he's not a matchwinner. What does our best batting lineup look like?

    1. Imam ul Haq
    2. Fakhar Zaman
    3. Babar Azam
    4. Mohammad Hafeez
    5. Sarfraz Ahmed
    6. Asif Ali
    7. Imad Wasim
    8. Shadab Khan/Hasan Ali
    9. Hasan Ali/Shadab Khan
    10. Wahab Riaz
    11. Mohammad Amir

    As I said we lack genuine world class batting talent. But we can organize the team and play a style that maximizes the potential of each and every player. Only then can we even compete against more organized and well drilled units.
    Last edited by gazza619; 15th June 2019 at 03:59.

  2. #2
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    While the loss to the Aussies really sucked, there were definitely some positives. Do keep in mind there were several instances where the game was definitely in PAK's favor. The good things were:

    1. Amir's 5er
    2. Hasan Ali's Cameo
    3. Wahab's 45

    So all isn't lost. Do note we beat England, who are tournament favorites, and that wasn't a fluke by any means. What you described above, that every player must play to their potential in the role that suits them, is exactly what happened in that match. Babar/Hafeez partnership, Amir/Wahab/Shadab striking, and more. So we have that grit to make it happen, but what's dragging down the team is Asif Ali and Shoaib Malik. Asif's batting and fielding has really been a huge let down, and Shoaib is just a walking wicket for the opposition. Here are some suggested improvements

    1. Remove Malik and Asif, bring in Haris Sohail and bring Shadab/Imad back
    2. Put in some slips, these edged balls should not be dropped.
    3. Fakhar and Babar need to be more cautious playing pull shots and with balls that are edged, cause you are just basically gifting wickets to the opposition.

    So you see, even if you do this, you will see a 50-60% improvement. Plus, its not like Pakistan aren't gonna take anything from this loss, after we lost to the WIndies, look how we bounced back against England. Its definitely gonna be harder doing it against India, but it can definitely be done, the worse that can happen is we lose and get trolled for a day. Then we move on.

  3. #3
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    As an outsider based on my observation of Pakistan team over several years, one thing that i can pinpoint lack of control in the middle overs by Pak bowlers. No Saqlain, Mustaq, Ajmal. Shadab is there. I don't think he is even close to those guys. I mean no team is going to start quivering at the prospect of facing Shadab. On the positive side their batting is a bit more stable. But Pakistan is always known as a strong bowling force. Pakistan is not used to being a batting force.

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    Crappy player made worse with low grade coaching.

  5. #5
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    Lack of talented players, staff, coach and Management.

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    Bad management and staff. We need to select domestic performers on merit. Also need improved domestic structure. But even with this bad strucutre there are gems out there.

  7. #7
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    No proper lower order batsmen apart from hafeez who willingly does not play well at 6 whenever given chance.
    Against wi hafeez willingly was playing slow so that management plays him at 4.

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    This is a great point. Weíve been a poor batting side for a long time. But when we do win itís because we have 3 spinners who keep things tight and take wickets. A few years ago we fell on a bowling combination that included Afridi, Hafeez, and Saeed Ajmal. Our current crop of spinners are not at that level but nevertheless provide important attributes. Imad keeps things tight and makes things difficult on right handed batsman. He has demonstrated an ability to bowl with the new ball. Hafeez remains effective against lefties. Shadab is an attacking leg spinner who takes wickets. These 3 players alone give Pakistan 30 potentially effective overs. Thatís 60 percent of our bowling. Add Ali, Amir, and Wahab to that and now a captain has 50 overs of potentially quality bowling. Does that mean we ll bowl out teams for under 200. No. It does mean that for 50 overs sarfraz can make the opposition earn every run against high quality bowling.

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    It boils down to three things for me:

    1) pathetic bowling coach. Bowlers have forgotten how to even bowl yorkers, forget about maintaining a tidy line and length.

    2) mental midgets- crack under pressure and have a fear of the unknown. This is not something thatís limited to the PCB team but extends across the Pakistani society in the last few years. Society overall has become insecure, risk averse and without personality.

    3) horrible team management. Everyone knew about Shoaib Malikís abject record in England. He was chosen over a solid middle overs batsman Harris Sohail.

    honorary mention- unrealistic fans who are unrealistic.

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    No alternatives in domestics for the players currently playing. This is really appalling for a country where you find cricket on every street in urban and rural areas.

    If you randomly pick a team from the domestics, you will be surprised to find out that more than 75% of the players in the squad have at least one of the following characteristics:

    1) 30+ year old
    2) Batting average <35
    3) Bowling average >30
    4) SR <80 (in List A)
    5) WK who can't bat
    6) Bowlers getting the all-rounder tag after getting a half century
    7) Scarcity of pace-allrounders, off-spinners, dynamic batsmen (ala Buttler) and explosive (35+/100+) openers.


    In merit vs potential, potential usually causes the greatest heartbreak

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    Non-existent mental strength is the main reason and lack of guts. I donít understand why Sarfraz chose to field. Does he not know our chasing record? When was the last time we won chasing? Even if Aus scored 200, Pak just canít chase.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saeedhk View Post
    Non-existent mental strength is the main reason and lack of guts. I don’t understand why Sarfraz chose to field. Does he not know our chasing record? When was the last time we won chasing? Even if Aus scored 200, Pak just can’t chase.
    Mental strength is related to skills , if you do not have skills you play rash shots and get out.
    Unfortunately people overestimate Pakistan Team. \

    They do not have a single world class Batsman in the line up , that says a lot.

  13. #13
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    Yes we no longer have the talented world class players but teams make up for that by playing witj discipline and doing the basics right
    Our bowlers bowl poor line and lengths, they dont bowl to their strengths and have no game awareness except probably amir.
    In bating again we lack the basics of rotating the strike well, looking to make partnerships, and picking which bowlers to attack.
    Team selection these days is aweful and sarfraz too deserves to be axed. I mean how can u put a fielder like asif in slips. Sarfraz decided to chase against aus with our tail starting at 6.

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    Pak is in desperate need of a normal captain, you have the worst captain a team could possibly have. Hiding behind tail enders and exposing them to Starc was a criminal offense in the context of the match.

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    As we know the major problem pakistan have is related to the lower middle order As we have seen multiple times really this summer the lack of finshers or a reliable no 6-7 is really hurting pakistan

    Where other teams can recover from losing 3-4 wkts pakistan cant There lower mid order cannot finish in innings or recover in thr middle period if we lose quick wkts Its genuinely top 3 or bust

    As a result harris should be playing at 4, sarfraz at 5 and hafeez at 6 This is where i believe hafeez wouldve been vital who has the ability to accelerate straightaway if a platform has beem laid or become the wall that aids in the recovery Malik and Asif are not the answers as has been shown multiple times so far They juust arent good enough as players

    Its be good to see pakistans avge by position over the last 12 months and i rhink it would show on that

    On these grounds in england Its criminal to see pakistan failing to chase a 300 score and its mainly down to that lower middle order

    The fielding is absolutely awful as well There really is no excuse To be dropping dollies Again the lack of professionalism in this areas is killing pakistan

  16. #16
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    I feel Pakistan are getting back there. The inconsistencies of the last 10 years are slowly fading away with a settled top order now. The bowling is gaining back the sharpness of the olden times.. the players are playing with a renewed spirit. Pakistan is dangerous once again. I feel Amir is bowling like the old Akram.. Zaman bats like Sohail.. Imam can get to Anwar level (possible).. Babar Azam is a real addition as I feel Pakistan never had a batsman with such caliber in hand.. ever.. he is a real bonus and will be interesting to see how Pakistan handles him!

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    Malik is past his best, 30 runs burst off him would have got us clear over the line.

    Why does it take world cups to realise a player is finished.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majestic_Inzi View Post
    Malik is past his best, 30 runs burst off him would have got us clear over the line.

    Why does it take world cups to realise a player is finished.
    World cups are like periods of cycles in cricket world. They're milestones. Players think about whether they're capable of going for the next 4 years and take calls on careers.

  19. #19
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    We are not good enough.

    If you win 2 out of last 14 games and still believe that you are a good team, its time to get your head checked.

    Yes, we can win one-offs as an average team, but whenever the pressure is high, we will succumb more often that not.

    We can somehow win the World Cup if a miracle happens.

    On performance based analysis the team comes up short.


    And I get so high.. And I just can't feel it....

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by unemployedgm View Post
    Pakistan is no longer producing world class talent. As a result our unpredictability which once shaded towards winning, is consistently shading the other way. Pakistan is now a bad cricket team. When we bat well, our bowling lets us down. When we bowl well, our batting lets us down. If those two scenarios evade us, our fielding lets us down. This is a classic bad team pattern.

    Despite the many flaws which persist in our system, Pakistan can still win at a high level by putting players in the best possible position to succeed. Although not alone, Pakistan consistently mismanages its batting lineup, bowling lineup, and fielding lineup. Modern Cricket Coaches and Captains suggest the idea of floating lineups. Its utter nonsense that demonstrates a complete disregard for developing a coherent playing strategy and understanding talent. It's lazy!!!

    How does Pakistan maximize the resources at its disposal?

    One, Pakistan must play an 8-6 System. What does that mean? That means playing 8 Batsman and 6 Genuine Bowlers. A Genuine Bowler is a Wicket-Taking Threat who generally bowls 10 overs. Harris Sohail, Fakhar Zaman, and even Shoaib Malik cannot be considered genuine bowlers. There presence gives a captain tactical flexibility and nothing more.

    Two, our best 6 Genuine Bowlers are Mohammad Amir, Wahab Riaz, Hasan Ali, Shadab Khan, Imad Wasim, and Mohammad Hafeez. These players must play irrespective of the conditions. Riaz and Ali are not genuine new ball bowlers, as a result the composition of the bowling lineup should be as such.

    1. Mohammad Amir
    2. Imad Wasim/Mohammad Hafeez
    3. Hasan Ali
    4. Wahab Riaz
    5. Shadab Khan
    6. Imad Wasim/Mohammad Hafeez

    Three, Pakistan does not have 8 Genuine Batsman, but we do have competent lower order batsman who can protect the top and middle order. We also have to understand and accept that only Fakhar Zaman and Asif Ali are naturally attacking batsman. We also must acknowledge that they are limited batsman. As a result, Pakistan has to bowl very well and grind out results because we simply don't have elite match winning batting talent. For the record, Babar Azam is hugely talented, but he's not a matchwinner. What does our best batting lineup look like?

    1. Imam ul Haq
    2. Fakhar Zaman
    3. Babar Azam
    4. Mohammad Hafeez
    5. Sarfraz Ahmed
    6. Asif Ali
    7. Imad Wasim
    8. Shadab Khan/Hasan Ali
    9. Hasan Ali/Shadab Khan
    10. Wahab Riaz
    11. Mohammad Amir

    As I said we lack genuine world class batting talent. But we can organize the team and play a style that maximizes the potential of each and every player. Only then can we even compete against more organized and well drilled units.
    I feel that Pakistan after years of decay is actually getting back on track. The worst stage is over.

    PCB should get Sharjeel playing in Domestics straight away.

    Hafeez and Malik need to be shown the door.

    Domestic Cricket needs to improve

    Things are actually on the up and the trajectory is not downwards.

  21. #21
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    Quit the doom and gloom. Pakistan has been decent so far and if anything has been consistent with players which is a big positive. Yes Pakistan doesn't have the past talent and neither tend to be as mentally strong, but other teams aren't what their former teams used to be either. Cricket overall has taken a downturn.

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    The main reason for the losses is discipline, or the lack of it.

    - Opening bowlers bowling filth apart from Amir. You have to at least do the basics right by bowling the ball in the right place and not be erratic like a spray gun. If you are more disciplined at the start than you are more likely to pick up a wicket or two and even if you don't get a wicket you will do a better job of containing the opposition batsmen. It is not rocket science.

    - Pakistan have too many mentally weak and just generally ordinary players. Look at the shots played yesterday. We were in control of the run chase, however our batsmen gift their wickets away. They will will play a silly shot when it is not needed and that is all about discipline. These are professional players and they should know the match situation and should also know their limitations and what is expected of them. Babar as an example was playing so well and was in complete control and then he gives it away with a silly shot, which wasn't needed at the time.

    - Our middle order is too timid. It is time to give the boot to mediocre players like Malik and Hafeez - they have been given far too many chances over the years and this WC should be the last time they represent Pakistan. Asif Ali has been poor and should be dropped for that performance against Aus alone.

    - Our fielding has been abysmal. Dropped catches, misfields everywhere, lazy in the field. This is where we miss the likes of Shadab if he isn't playing. Our catching is horrendous. Asif Ali and Malik especially were pathetic in the field yesterday along with a number of others. Fielding at this level can more often than not be the difference between winning and losing. I think Finch was dropped by Asif when he was on 27.

    Until the team actually work harder and become more disciplined, things won't get better. These guys are meant to be professional cricketers, but they look like a club team in the field. When you are representing your country, you should put everything on the line and 'leave everything out there' as they say. However the majority of our players don't seem to be too bothered.

  23. #23
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    As hardcore fans, we need to realize current Pakistan team are just not good enough to beat or at least be competitive against top teams.

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    Pakistan's cricket has been on decline since last couple of decades. Unfortunately once something starts declining in Pakistan then it never recovers or takes positive direction.
    Cricket is following same path as hockey. Hockey in its last days before death showed some sparks with players like sohail abbas, shakeel abbasi & rehan butt & a few big wins here and there. All hockey fans started believing that hockey is reviving but all hopes gone within few years when our team & players got exposed & we all found out they are not good enough even to play at club level in holland, germany & india & we don't have any kind of replacements. Same thing happening with cricket these days. These are final few months/years of our cricket unless some big miracle happens. So, enjoy while they are playing forget the results. They might not be able to qualify for WC 2023 onward.


    Serious Sport has nothing to do with fair play... it is war minus the shooting.

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    Amir is bowling very well in this world cup but the rest of the bowling is pedestrian. Wahab is good but Hasan is really poor. The sooner Pakistan drop him the better. You can't play a bowler for his batting. He hasn't been taking wickets against top opposition's and has been going for plenty.

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    Mental Strength...even with all the dropped catches, misfields and selecting the wrong players for the match, the chase was on. But somehow we just can't chase, whether it was the 280 odd against the same opposition in UAE or the par score of 307 yesterday.

    As someone has mentioned here before, we are mental midgets and I agree.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by unemployedgm View Post
    Pakistan is no longer producing world class talent. As a result our unpredictability which once shaded towards winning, is consistently shading the other way. Pakistan is now a bad cricket team. When we bat well, our bowling lets us down. When we bowl well, our batting lets us down. If those two scenarios evade us, our fielding lets us down. This is a classic bad team pattern.

    Despite the many flaws which persist in our system, Pakistan can still win at a high level by putting players in the best possible position to succeed. Although not alone, Pakistan consistently mismanages its batting lineup, bowling lineup, and fielding lineup. Modern Cricket Coaches and Captains suggest the idea of floating lineups. Its utter nonsense that demonstrates a complete disregard for developing a coherent playing strategy and understanding talent. It's lazy!!!

    How does Pakistan maximize the resources at its disposal?

    One, Pakistan must play an 8-6 System. What does that mean? That means playing 8 Batsman and 6 Genuine Bowlers. A Genuine Bowler is a Wicket-Taking Threat who generally bowls 10 overs. Harris Sohail, Fakhar Zaman, and even Shoaib Malik cannot be considered genuine bowlers. There presence gives a captain tactical flexibility and nothing more.

    Two, our best 6 Genuine Bowlers are Mohammad Amir, Wahab Riaz, Hasan Ali, Shadab Khan, Imad Wasim, and Mohammad Hafeez. These players must play irrespective of the conditions. Riaz and Ali are not genuine new ball bowlers, as a result the composition of the bowling lineup should be as such.

    1. Mohammad Amir
    2. Imad Wasim/Mohammad Hafeez
    3. Hasan Ali
    4. Wahab Riaz
    5. Shadab Khan
    6. Imad Wasim/Mohammad Hafeez

    Three, Pakistan does not have 8 Genuine Batsman, but we do have competent lower order batsman who can protect the top and middle order. We also have to understand and accept that only Fakhar Zaman and Asif Ali are naturally attacking batsman. We also must acknowledge that they are limited batsman. As a result, Pakistan has to bowl very well and grind out results because we simply don't have elite match winning batting talent. For the record, Babar Azam is hugely talented, but he's not a matchwinner. What does our best batting lineup look like?

    1. Imam ul Haq
    2. Fakhar Zaman
    3. Babar Azam
    4. Mohammad Hafeez
    5. Sarfraz Ahmed
    6. Asif Ali
    7. Imad Wasim
    8. Shadab Khan/Hasan Ali
    9. Hasan Ali/Shadab Khan
    10. Wahab Riaz
    11. Mohammad Amir

    As I said we lack genuine world class batting talent. But we can organize the team and play a style that maximizes the potential of each and every player. Only then can we even compete against more organized and well drilled units.
    What you are proposing will rely a lot on formulating coherent macro level plans around our strengths and weaknesses and assigning specific roles to players. Problem is our team management does not seem to possess the capacity to formulate such strategies and a number of the players don't have the temperament or skills to then execute them. Misbah was an extreme proponent of this theory of maximizing your strengths where he built all his strategies on slow and steady batting and stifling the opposition with spin bowling. With Sarfraz and Mickey we don't really seem to know what our strengths and weaknesses are. Every player seems to be playing according to his own plan without having any specific role in the team. One day you will have Hasan opening the bowling, the other day it will be Shaheen and the next it will be Imad. Sarfraz rarely has a coherent plan and his captaincy often borders on the atrocious. If you win the toss and bowl first I would assume you have confidence in your bowling or consider the conditions favorable, but then why would you remove slips at the first sign of aggression from the opposition? What is the point of playing Shoaib Malik for his supposed experience when he is coming in at number 6? And if it is because of his bowling skills then Haris is equally capable of bowling 4 or 5 overs. Our failures are as much a result of poor planning and management as of lack of skill and poor execution.

  28. #28
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    Sometimes, we are guilty of over-analyzing. Problems are often simpler than we think, but it is the solutions that require head-scratching.

    Pakistanís problems do not require any profound thinking. We stink of mediocrity because we have not produced elite cricketers for about two decades now.

    There is a reason why we are 6th in the rankings, and we have been hovered around the 5th, 6th, 7th and even 8th position for more than a decade now.

    In fact, the last time we were in the top 2 in the ODI rankings was back in 2006, and I donít recall when we were 3rd last. It must have been a while which is why I donít remember.

    We can debate about team selection, combination etc. all we want, but is there really a group of 11 players in the country who can propel Pakistan to the top 3?

    Who can ensure that Pakistan beats teams like India, England, Australia, South Africa, New Zealand etc. more often than not?

    I donít think so. If there are such 11 players, they are not stepping forward for some reason. A cursory look at our domestic cricket including PSL reaffirms this belief.

    More often than not, the players who have already proved their mediocre pedigrees in international cricket are the ones ruling the roost in domestic cricket.

    Identifying the problems are the easy part, but now comes the difficult part - how to make things better.

    The big issue in my view is that our mentality is rotten to the core. This includes all the players, the ex-players, the analysts and also the fans.


    By mentality, I mean the following: the way we understand the game, the way we identify our problems, our tendency to deflect our shortcomings on others and thus justify our failings.

    Furthermore, we celebrate our inconsistency. Statements like we are unpredictable, we are mercurial, we are cornered tigers, you never know which Pakistan will turn up etc. are utter nonsense. This drivel are only means to glorify our mediocrity.

    Before every World Cup, we draw parallels with 92 and meet Imran to listen to his cornered tigers speech. You wonít see the likes of Australia, India and West Indies draw parallels with their previous World Cup triumphs, or meet their World Cup winning captains before boarding the plane.

    Why didnít Kapil Dev give his cornered tigers speech to India? 36 years ago, In this very country, they produced a bigger cornered tigers performance than Imranís men in 92.

    Fixing a rotten system is easy, but can rotten mentality be fixed? I highly doubt that. This mentality is not exclusive to cricket only - it is the psyche of the country in general, which is we are in the dumps today.

    We have placed ourselves in a position where others feel sorry for us and pity us, be it cricket or something else.

    We are high on romanticism and low on professionalism, and this leads to delusional, denial and victim mentality. Virtues that have the become hallmarks of this nation.

    Since there doesnít appear to be much hope for the future, I think it is for our fans to lower their expectations. We have the arrogance of an elite team, but our capabilities do not match our attitude. If we come to terms with mediocrity, we will also lower our disappointment.

  29. #29
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    We are perhaps the mentally weakest side of all the major ones. Can win if such a team had a mentally strong captain that we do not. This was clearly visible when we lost yesterday's match from a winning position. Most other teams like NZ, India and England would finished of Australia easily yesterday where as we grab losses from the jaws of victory. Sarfaraz doesn't know what his best eleven is being a negative captain that he is. Drops our star spinner for the useless Shaheen says it all


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

  30. #30
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    General symptoms of a far-reaching, wide-spread, deep-rooted endemic malaise:

    1. sending a useful cricketer like Faheem Ashraf home, who could've come-in handy in such overcast conditions (dropped after one bad-outing on pancake pitches vs rampant England).

    2. choosing a poor-man's tullebaaz, ancient dinosaur, good-for-nothing cricketer like Asif ali who should've been sent home instead.

    3. Picking over-the-hill shoaib Malik, who albeit a good-fielder, is afraid of pace-bowling on highest level.

    4. dropping Shadab khan, the best pakistani fielder, a genuine wicket-taker, who should be a first-pick for all Limited over internationals.

    5. dropping Imad wasim, a handy lower-order batsman, a crucial bowler who ties-up the most fearsome opponents, gives a confirm economical ten overs, with vital breakthroughs.

    6. A coward, brainless captain like sarfaraz ahmed, the most obvious handicap on the field, whose clueless captaincy is holding pakistan back.

    7. Not sure about the dodgy fitness of pudgy haris sohail.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Since there doesnít appear to be much hope for the future, I think it is for our fans to lower their expectations. We have the arrogance of an elite team, but our capabilities do not match our attitude. If we come to terms with mediocrity, we will also lower our disappointment.
    Pakistani optimists are definitely borderline delusional, but pessimism isnít the solution to our problems.

    I dislike the overly optimistic Pakistanis who claim a lot but have no plans, but i also dislike the pessimistic types which seem to have no ambitions or hope.

    We need to be able to distinguise between definite optimism and indefinite optimism.

    Definite optimism is all about being ambitious, hoping for a better future but at the same time being realistic and pragmatic. Every civilization that rose to power did it because of this. The US during the 50s is a proof of this, that era sent the first humans to the moon, invented the computer and so much more.

    Indefinite optimism (borderline delusion) and pessimism are both a disease to this nation.

    This post is a bit off topic but i felt the need to write it down anyway since there is a growing number of pessimists in Pakistan.

  32. #32
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    Analysis -

    Because there is no proper structure in domestic and there is no grass root cricket. + there's corruption and plenty of old uncles want to hold their seats till death


    If you Can Believe In Something, Than why not believe In Yourself.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by PakLFC View Post
    We are perhaps the mentally weakest side of all the major ones. Can win if such a team had a mentally strong captain that we do not. This was clearly visible when we lost yesterday's match from a winning position. Most other teams like NZ, India and England would finished of Australia easily yesterday where as we grab losses from the jaws of victory. Sarfaraz doesn't know what his best eleven is being a negative captain that he is. Drops our star spinner for the useless Shaheen says it all
    Someone said in a FB comment that if there was Dhoni in place of Sarfraz there when Wahab got out. he would've won it for Pakistan.

    It was more to do with mental toughness than skill and ability there


    If you Can Believe In Something, Than why not believe In Yourself.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Sometimes, we are guilty of over-analyzing. Problems are often simpler than we think, but it is the solutions that require head-scratching.

    Pakistan’s problems do not require any profound thinking. We stink of mediocrity because we have not produced elite cricketers for about two decades now.

    There is a reason why we are 6th in the rankings, and we have been hovered around the 5th, 6th, 7th and even 8th position for more than a decade now.

    In fact, the last time we were in the top 2 in the ODI rankings was back in 2006, and I don’t recall when we were 3rd last. It must have been a while which is why I don’t remember.

    We can debate about team selection, combination etc. all we want, but is there really a group of 11 players in the country who can propel Pakistan to the top 3?

    Who can ensure that Pakistan beats teams like India, England, Australia, South Africa, New Zealand etc. more often than not?

    I don’t think so. If there are such 11 players, they are not stepping forward for some reason. A cursory look at our domestic cricket including PSL reaffirms this belief.

    More often than not, the players who have already proved their mediocre pedigrees in international cricket are the ones ruling the roost in domestic cricket.

    Identifying the problems are the easy part, but now comes the difficult part - how to make things better.

    The big issue in my view is that our mentality is rotten to the core. This includes all the players, the ex-players, the analysts and also the fans.


    By mentality, I mean the following: the way we understand the game, the way we identify our problems, our tendency to deflect our shortcomings on others and thus justify our failings.

    Furthermore, we celebrate our inconsistency. Statements like we are unpredictable, we are mercurial, we are cornered tigers, you never know which Pakistan will turn up etc. are utter nonsense. This drivel are only means to glorify our mediocrity.

    Before every World Cup, we draw parallels with 92 and meet Imran to listen to his cornered tigers speech. You won’t see the likes of Australia, India and West Indies draw parallels with their previous World Cup triumphs, or meet their World Cup winning captains before boarding the plane.

    Why didn’t Kapil Dev give his cornered tigers speech to India? 36 years ago, In this very country, they produced a bigger cornered tigers performance than Imran’s men in 92.

    Fixing a rotten system is easy, but can rotten mentality be fixed? I highly doubt that. This mentality is not exclusive to cricket only - it is the psyche of the country in general, which is we are in the dumps today.

    We have placed ourselves in a position where others feel sorry for us and pity us, be it cricket or something else.

    We are high on romanticism and low on professionalism, and this leads to delusional, denial and victim mentality. Virtues that have the become hallmarks of this nation.

    Since there doesn’t appear to be much hope for the future, I think it is for our fans to lower their expectations. We have the arrogance of an elite team, but our capabilities do not match our attitude. If we come to terms with mediocrity, we will also lower our disappointment.
    excellent post.

  35. #35
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    Our players are just brainless nothing else. They have talent no doubt about it. They just need brain development.

  36. #36
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    It comes down to fielding. We won against England as we fielded better than them. In Australia if we didn't drop as many catches, misfields we would be chasing a lower score and could have won.

    Good fitness and fielding makes you a tougher opponent, harder for batsmen to score runs. And generally generates a strong competitive mentality. Who's going to fear a team who's half fit and can't field. People go on about mental strength, this is the way to build it through fitness and fielding.

    You need to make it so that only players who can field well and have good fitness can enter the team. Haris, Imad, Sarfraz, Abid, Umar Akmal, Sharjeel these are all just names off the top of my head I can confidently say are performing worse due to fitness. Especially Umar and Sarfraz, their entire game has changed due to that as they can't take singles well anymore.

    On the reverse you have the less talented guys who have supreme fitness. Like Masood or Rizwan. Who probably now without it they don't stand a chance getting selected. Almost feels like when players know that they're talented, fitness/fielding is secondary, it doesn't matter. We need to get rid of this mentality.

    Only select players with good fitness and fielding from now on after the world cup. Might be worse for a bit, but hopefully will help future cricketers, too many are still happy to let fitness slide. Also enough of this pride in being unpredictable or being cornered tigers, strive to be consistent.

  37. #37
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    A combination of a lack of ability bad coaching and poor planning and selections all contributing to a losing mentally weak team.

    In the Australia series Abbas and Yasir were tried why simply because they have done well in tests otherwise they wouldn't have been close to the ODI team.

    In the same series Hasnain was tried simply because he can bowl 90mph that's like a magical formula to success according to Inzi and Mickey when he had zero domestic experience other bowlers were in a better position to be selected.

    Umar Akmal came in played one innings at no 4 but was soon back at no 6/7 where he isn't at his best he should've been played higher up throughout the Australia series and been in the WC squad.

    Malik and Asif are now both out of form and there's no replacement in the squad for them Malik being selected because he's a senior and not on merit was another great foresight.

    Abid Ali was selected scored a hundred but was dropped after one more match he might not be a great opener but it's unfair to drop him so soon and give Imam a free ride in the World Cup scoring at match losing strike rates.

    You could keep going but it tells you when you don't have a world class team but all your doing is making things worse and losing more in the process.

  38. #38
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    Players not improving and taking their game to the next level. Our players also get an unnecessarily long run in the team compared to lets say Australia. If you don't perform for 4-5 games, you get booted out and you have no choice but to return to domestics and prove your form, fitness and in fact even better match awareness again. Australians dropped Maxwell after all and told him to bat with more discipline if he wanted to play for Australia again.

    On the other hand Pakistan keeps playing players who let the team down again and again without any accountability.

  39. #39
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    Why do people still think Asif Ali still has something to offer?

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chokli View Post
    Why do people still think Asif Ali still has something to offer?
    I apologise for my foolisness in thinking asif ali could imitate shajeel khan.
    Desperation makes your mind think funny things!

  41. #41
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    Pakistan keep losing games because they are a mid table team so losing to better team is business as usual.

    There is no need for excessive celebration when Pakistan beats a better team like England. Every team will have an off-day and weaker teams will win some times. It does not make them better than what they are in reality. Winning against a stronger team is an an unlikely event that will only occur 1 out of 5 times. That is why the loss against Australia should not hurt Pakistani fans. It was an expected result, just like losing to India should be the realistic expectation unless India has a bad day on Sunday.

    If you consider all of Pakistan recent losses before world cup, they all came against better teams like England, Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa. All the wins came against worse teams like Sri Lanka, West Indies, and Zimbabwe. West Indies is an exception, though, their full strength team will win an ODI series against Pakistan if the two teams play a full series right now. The only team that is comparable to Pakistan is Bangladesh which will beat Pakistan at home and in the UAE comfortably but lose everywhere else.

  42. #42
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    Regarding thread:-
    1. No strike bowler to take wickets in powerplay.
    2. No finisher to win the game

  43. #43
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    3. We cant catch or field

  44. #44
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    4.picking malik and asif ali

  45. #45
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    OP looks clueless

    Post Sharjeel Khan ban in 2017 which I feel was done to bring back Inzamam mafia players. Selectors have not selected an opener, one-down, 2-down batsmen for last 2.5 years.

    These positions have been restricted to 2-3 players. Most of the duration Azam, Imam, Ahmed Shehzad and Malik/Hafeez have occupied it. When the selectors are busy protecting their family members than how can world class team be built.

  46. #46
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    My take based on Pakistan's ODI matches played in 2019.

    Team Mat Won Lost NR W/L Ave RPO HS LS
    Pakistan 18 3 14 1 0.214 35.7 5.81 361 105
    RPO is pretty good. It means team made average of 290 runs per match.

    Inning break up of those matches.
    Score Overs RPO Target Inns Result Opposition Start Date
    361/7 50 7.22 374 2 lost v England 11-May-19
    358/9 50 7.16 1 lost v England 14-May-19
    348/8 50 6.96 1 won v England 3-Jun-19
    340/7 50 6.8 1 lost v England 17-May-19
    317/6 50 6.34 1 lost v South Africa 25-Jan-19
    307/7 50 6.14 328 2 lost v Australia 31-Mar-19
    297 46.5 6.34 352 2 lost v England 19-May-19
    284/7 50 5.68 1 lost v Australia 24-Mar-19
    280/5 50 5.6 1 lost v Australia 22-Mar-19
    271/8 50 5.42 278 2 lost v Australia 29-Mar-19
    267/5 49.1 5.43 267 2 won v South Africa 19-Jan-19
    266 45.4 5.82 308 2 lost v Australia 12-Jun-19
    240/8 50 4.8 1 lost v South Africa 30-Jan-19
    203 45.5 4.42 1 lost v South Africa 22-Jan-19
    186 44.4 4.16 267 2 lost v Australia 27-Mar-19
    168/2 31.3 5.33 165 2 won v South Africa 27-Jan-19
    105 21.4 4.84 1 lost v West Indies 31-May-19
    80/2 19 4.21 1 n/r v England 8-May-19
    I have highlighted matches where Pakistan made 250+ runs and still lost.

    Clearly the bowlers are under performing big time.
    Player Mat Inns Runs Wkts Ave Econ SR 4W
    Mohammad Amir 8 7 284 12 23.66 4.98 28.5 0
    Usman Shinwari 6 6 266 10 26.6 5.21 30.6 2
    Shaheen Shah Afridi 9 8 454 13 34.92 6.48 32.3 1
    Shoaib Malik 12 5 79 2 39.5 5.64 42 0
    Wahab Riaz 3 3 166 4 41.5 7.66 32.5 0
    Shadab Khan 7 6 316 7 45.14 5.74 47.1 0
    Junaid Khan 5 5 320 6 53.33 6.95 46 0
    Mohammad Hasnain 5 5 303 5 60.6 7.39 49.2 0
    Imad Wasim 15 13 632 10 63.2 5.44 69.6 0
    Yasir Shah 6 6 343 5 68.6 6.01 68.4 0
    Hasan Ali 11 10 541 6 90.16 6.32 85.5 0
    Haris Sohail 9 6 110 1 110 5.78 114 0
    Mohammad Hafeez 10 7 241 2 120.5 6.69 108 0
    Mohammad Abbas 3 3 153 1 153 5.66 162 0
    Faheem Ashraf 7 6 335 2 167.5 6.1 164.5 0
    Pretty much every bowler is having terrible time.
    Only Amir has turned things around. Usman Shinwari has second best stats but he is not even in WC squad. The less said about the rest , the better.


    Aaj ka kaam kal karo, Kal ka kaam parson. Aisi bhi jaldi kya hai, Jab jeena hai barson.

  47. #47
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    All the above reasons are temporary fix. And Pak is in this mess because it always tries to fix the symptoms but not the disease. It's like.... You are bleeding heavily but just a band aid is used hoping it will stay and blood pouring out will stop. You are just buying time but you actually haven't solved anything.

    The basic issue is roots. Do people even know if a competent system exists starting from 14-15 years of age? When you won't pay slightest attention to the up and coming kids and nothing but hoping a legend will be born out of thin air, then you deserve to be in this mess.

    BCCI with all it's flaws, it actually has invested a lot especially after the disaster that was in 2007. Look at the people coaching the junior Indian batsman and bowlers. It's a culture and discipline that is developing that is easily carried to the senior level.

    If you'll look back, there wasn't much difference in terms of talent in U19 teams between India and Pakistan in last decade. But now, the difference is increasing where U19 India is showing more and more promise than Pakistani U19.

    If Pakistan wants to get out of this mess, then there's no easy solution. There's no fix which can make this team and system a top one overnight. It must be achieved through developing a system and culture which will help the new kids transitioning in to senior team.

    Is it too much to ask? From PCB, yes. It is run by some emotional people who puts away their logical brain and is driven through impulses. But while there could be some flashy shows here and there, in the long run, this system is doomed to fail. And this is what exactly has happened to team Pakistan.

    They will be consistently unpredictable and win here and there which will shock and bring thrill (either through laughter or tears of getting defeated) but since most Pakistani fans are emotional themselves, this system will still be relevant (which is actually doesn't serve any purpose) and people will always wonder why the hell this team is losing though the answer is right in front of them.

  48. #48
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    Poor Squad selections again and again, many better alternatives exist despite poor domestic structure and lack of international experience for youngsters.
    How can you pick Asif, Malik, Faheem A for England Squad despite their poor records, and not pick any genuine spinners whereas teams like India have been successful in bowling mainly due to their spinners in ODIs.

    I must say even I have given up on Sarfraz captaincy and lack of intent in batting, which previously I was thinking due to bad form and bad luck on occasions. He looks finished.

  49. #49
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    Having said all that most matches Pak have been losing are from winning position due to self destruction rather than lack of skills, apart form one or two i.e. Malik, Asif, and Sarfraz.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itachi View Post
    All the above reasons are temporary fix. And Pak is in this mess because it always tries to fix the symptoms but not the disease. It's like.... You are bleeding heavily but just a band aid is used hoping it will stay and blood pouring out will stop. You are just buying time but you actually haven't solved anything.

    The basic issue is roots. Do people even know if a competent system exists starting from 14-15 years of age? When you won't pay slightest attention to the up and coming kids and nothing but hoping a legend will be born out of thin air, then you deserve to be in this mess.

    BCCI with all it's flaws, it actually has invested a lot especially after the disaster that was in 2007. Look at the people coaching the junior Indian batsman and bowlers. It's a culture and discipline that is developing that is easily carried to the senior level.

    If you'll look back, there wasn't much difference in terms of talent in U19 teams between India and Pakistan in last decade. But now, the difference is increasing where U19 India is showing more and more promise than Pakistani U19.

    If Pakistan wants to get out of this mess, then there's no easy solution. There's no fix which can make this team and system a top one overnight. It must be achieved through developing a system and culture which will help the new kids transitioning in to senior team.

    Is it too much to ask? From PCB, yes. It is run by some emotional people who puts away their logical brain and is driven through impulses. But while there could be some flashy shows here and there, in the long run, this system is doomed to fail. And this is what exactly has happened to team Pakistan.

    They will be consistently unpredictable and win here and there which will shock and bring thrill (either through laughter or tears of getting defeated) but since most Pakistani fans are emotional themselves, this system will still be relevant (which is actually doesn't serve any purpose) and people will always wonder why the hell this team is losing though the answer is right in front of them.
    Excellent analysis, so true. However the arm chair strategists in this forum always seem to love the following two: "SELECTION ISSUES" or "BLAME THE COACH"

  51. #51
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    Theyr keep losing because they are plain c**p, yesterday how many times did you see pak batsman play a weighted shot to the outfield for 2 aíla williamson..

    Its either dot dot dot,the odd single or 4 no wonder its 12 losses out of 15 matches

    Hafeezís dismissal was pure embarrassment!!

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Sometimes, we are guilty of over-analyzing. Problems are often simpler than we think, but it is the solutions that require head-scratching.

    Pakistan’s problems do not require any profound thinking. We stink of mediocrity because we have not produced elite cricketers for about two decades now.

    There is a reason why we are 6th in the rankings, and we have been hovered around the 5th, 6th, 7th and even 8th position for more than a decade now.

    In fact, the last time we were in the top 2 in the ODI rankings was back in 2006, and I don’t recall when we were 3rd last. It must have been a while which is why I don’t remember.

    We can debate about team selection, combination etc. all we want, but is there really a group of 11 players in the country who can propel Pakistan to the top 3?

    Who can ensure that Pakistan beats teams like India, England, Australia, South Africa, New Zealand etc. more often than not?

    I don’t think so. If there are such 11 players, they are not stepping forward for some reason. A cursory look at our domestic cricket including PSL reaffirms this belief.

    More often than not, the players who have already proved their mediocre pedigrees in international cricket are the ones ruling the roost in domestic cricket.

    Identifying the problems are the easy part, but now comes the difficult part - how to make things better.

    The big issue in my view is that our mentality is rotten to the core. This includes all the players, the ex-players, the analysts and also the fans.


    By mentality, I mean the following: the way we understand the game, the way we identify our problems, our tendency to deflect our shortcomings on others and thus justify our failings.

    Furthermore, we celebrate our inconsistency. Statements like we are unpredictable, we are mercurial, we are cornered tigers, you never know which Pakistan will turn up etc. are utter nonsense. This drivel are only means to glorify our mediocrity.

    Before every World Cup, we draw parallels with 92 and meet Imran to listen to his cornered tigers speech. You won’t see the likes of Australia, India and West Indies draw parallels with their previous World Cup triumphs, or meet their World Cup winning captains before boarding the plane.

    Why didn’t Kapil Dev give his cornered tigers speech to India? 36 years ago, In this very country, they produced a bigger cornered tigers performance than Imran’s men in 92.

    Fixing a rotten system is easy, but can rotten mentality be fixed? I highly doubt that. This mentality is not exclusive to cricket only - it is the psyche of the country in general, which is we are in the dumps today.

    We have placed ourselves in a position where others feel sorry for us and pity us, be it cricket or something else.

    We are high on romanticism and low on professionalism, and this leads to delusional, denial and victim mentality. Virtues that have the become hallmarks of this nation.

    Since there doesn’t appear to be much hope for the future, I think it is for our fans to lower their expectations. We have the arrogance of an elite team, but our capabilities do not match our attitude. If we come to terms with mediocrity, we will also lower our disappointment.
    This is an equally good post.

  53. #53
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    We aren’t good enough. We need to accept that and lower our expectations slightly. Predicting winning the World Cup is something that is very unlikely to happen so I don’t get why our fans do it.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by aqeelPK View Post
    Pakistan's cricket has been on decline since last couple of decades. Unfortunately, once something starts declining in Pakistan, it never recovers.

    Cricket is following the same path as hockey. Hockey in its last days-before-death showed some sparks with players like sohail abbas, shakeel abbasi, rehan butt and a few big wins here & there. All hockey fans started believing that hockey is reviving, but all hopes were gone within few years when our team & players got exposed & we all found out they are not good enough even to play at club level & we don't have any kind of replacements.

    Same thing is happening with cricket. These are the final few months/years of our cricket unless some big miracle happens. So enjoy while they are playing, forget the results. They might not be able to qualify for WC 2023 onward.
    I agree. The irresponsibility, selfishness & shortsightedness of the powerful elders entrusted with the responsibility to take-care-of & grow the game have let-down their nation big time.

    Instead of nurturing, flourishing & strengthening the national infrastructure, they have made it weaker from the inside through their treacherous acts, treasonous policies & poisonous behavior.

    Hence mentally-weak players are produced by the PCB who neither can stand the heat out in-the-middle nor knows how to cope-with the pressure at the international level.

    Just look at Mohammad Hafeez's brainless shot, inzi nephew's shocking dismissal, useless nepotist/preferential selection instead-of merit-based picks.

    Mohammad Amir's alarming dip in pace (where is the strength-&-conditioning coach to look after the pak pace battery?), the best 2 bowlers so far, wahab & amir weren't even included in the preliminary squad!

    Bowling short to aussie batsmen who are famous for their cut & pulls, it's their bread & butter shot (nice planning azhar mehmood - somebody give him the boot immediately after the WC).

    Not picking any spinners vs a team like Australia, relying on long-expired players like Malik & Hafeez instead of investing on the youth (hafeez to lead the spin attack & malik to shoulder the middle-order , what an excellent planning! take a bow!!

    Sarfaraz & mickey arthur, these 2 clowns need to be booted out immediately after the WC.

    No wonder a screwed-up system which produces mentally messed-up players, go out to play with a muddled-up mentality under the foul-up leadership of a goof-up captain & coach - ultimately produces botched-up results.

    The list of indiscretions by the PCB & blunders by the management goes on & on.

    I agree, these are the last few days of pakistan cricket rubbing shoulders with the big teams. Enjoy while it lasts.

  55. #55
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    All this talk... some people comparing doing badly in cricket and Pakistan's domestic problems - what a joke.

    Our players simply aren't as good as the others at the moment - but just remember, it's a game. There is always a probability that a weaker team can beat the stronger team. That's why I watch - even when Pakistan are poor. Man, I know fans of the Sacremento Kings and they support their team like no tomorrow even though they've sucked for their entire lives (talking about NBA here). Why are some Pak fans so doom-and-gloom when we are performing poorly? Is it because they've seen better times in the past? If that's the reason - have pride in the fact that we were once good even if we aren't as good anymore. I've adopted the position of humility and optimism. And there is no such thing as "too much" optimism. I don't know how you guys live your lives without hope!

    So cheer up, support the team, and if we go through it's gonna be legendary!


    Have the players going forward, just need coaching&professionalism! #1 priority: fielding

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itachi View Post
    All the above reasons are temporary fix. And Pak is in this mess because it always tries to fix the symptoms but not the disease. It's like.... You are bleeding heavily but just a band aid is used hoping it will stay and blood pouring out will stop. You are just buying time but you actually haven't solved anything.

    The basic issue is roots. Do people even know if a competent system exists starting from 14-15 years of age? When you won't pay slightest attention to the up and coming kids and nothing but hoping a legend will be born out of thin air, then you deserve to be in this mess.

    BCCI with all it's flaws, it actually has invested a lot especially after the disaster that was in 2007. Look at the people coaching the junior Indian batsman and bowlers. It's a culture and discipline that is developing that is easily carried to the senior level.

    If you'll look back, there wasn't much difference in terms of talent in U19 teams between India and Pakistan in last decade. But now, the difference is increasing where U19 India is showing more and more promise than Pakistani U19.

    If Pakistan wants to get out of this mess, then there's no easy solution. There's no fix which can make this team and system a top one overnight. It must be achieved through developing a system and culture which will help the new kids transitioning in to senior team.

    Is it too much to ask? From PCB, yes. It is run by some emotional people who puts away their logical brain and is driven through impulses. But while there could be some flashy shows here and there, in the long run, this system is doomed to fail. And this is what exactly has happened to team Pakistan.

    They will be consistently unpredictable and win here and there which will shock and bring thrill (either through laughter or tears of getting defeated) but since most Pakistani fans are emotional themselves, this system will still be relevant (which is actually doesn't serve any purpose) and people will always wonder why the hell this team is losing though the answer is right in front of them.
    Very good post!
    Most of us have been saying this for years.
    But i would add that cricket is not as popular in pak as it used to be in the 80s and 90s. A part of this is the lack of superstar pak cricketers these days.
    But the bigger issue is kids are more interested in their mobile phones and social media, playing mobile games, watching movies etc.
    There is so much more types of entertainment these days and cricket is old fashioned entertainment compared to the new types of tech entertainment.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain caveman View Post
    Very good post!
    Most of us have been saying this for years.
    But i would add that cricket is not as popular in pak as it used to be in the 80s and 90s. A part of this is the lack of superstar pak cricketers these days.
    But the bigger issue is kids are more interested in their mobile phones and social media, playing mobile games, watching movies etc.
    There is so much more types of entertainment these days and cricket is old fashioned entertainment compared to the new types of tech entertainment.
    Diverse entertainment is available to kids in every country. You have keep the kids already playing on grounds playing on for longer and at higher standard.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain caveman View Post
    Very good post!
    Most of us have been saying this for years.
    But i would add that cricket is not as popular in pak as it used to be in the 80s and 90s. A part of this is the lack of superstar pak cricketers these days.
    But the bigger issue is kids are more interested in their mobile phones and social media, playing mobile games, watching movies etc.
    There is so much more types of entertainment these days and cricket is old fashioned entertainment compared to the new types of tech entertainment.
    There were also all kind of time pass & entertainment activities available even when cricket was at its peak in 90s in the country. The main reasons for the declining interest among youngsters are

    Poor economy, many kids need to start making their livelihood at an age as low as 10.
    School cricket's death. Schools don't have playing grounds & funds
    Lack of grounds in cities
    National team losing more games than winning
    Match fixing scandals
    Post 9/11 islamic extremism. Increasing madrasah's enrollment who don't allow kids to play
    Post 9/11 islamic extremism. Mullahs preach cricket as haram (sinful) every week in friday prayers.
    Post 9/11 islamic extremism. which took away international cricket from Pakistan.


    Serious Sport has nothing to do with fair play... it is war minus the shooting.

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    Cricket is still the top sport in Pakistan, and the decline in follow up has been due to Terrorism preventing regular tours to Pak. I cannot believe people think we will not be competitive again in future, especially when not long ago we were No 1 Test Side and won the world ICC championship, and despite poor results we have competed well against England (No 1 side) at their home grounds, and played well against Australia in patches in the World Cup game. Game against WI was our usual freak show which Pak have been doing ever since they been playing cricket.
    Pak cricket will rise again with our youngsters getting more exposure as long as teams visit Pakistan, and with sensible administrators like Mani and Wasim managing we will now see more professionalism and less nepotism in selections. Pak will always be among top 4 cricket nations.
    Last edited by PakPremi; 14th June 2019 at 20:19.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by saeedhk View Post
    Non-existent mental strength is the main reason and lack of guts. I don’t understand why Sarfraz chose to field. Does he not know our chasing record? When was the last time we won chasing? Even if Aus scored 200, Pak just can’t chase.
    This is the no 1 reason. Pakistan lose key moments in key games. All to do with mental strength.

    I think the team leaders/coach give up mentally to big opponents before entering the pitch - if they have half a chance.

    if they are given no chance, they play freely.

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    Wicket taking deliveries vs pakistan batsman?

    As the title suggests looking at this world cup so far and the australia game the other day just got me realising how bad our batsman really are if u look at the last few years as well as this world cup so far how many wicket taking balls has the opposition bowled to our batsman and how many times have these batsmen threw there wicket away to shocking deliveries

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    Batting has issues for the last 2 decades. The batting coach Andy Flower is there for 6 years now, what is he doing? -has no impact, is very lucky that he never gets criticized. The captain is helpless, its like PM Imran, if you don't have resources, a leader cannot do much. Develop, 10 technical batsmen, 10 fast bowlers, 5 wrist spinners, 5 SLA, % finger spinners 3 wicketkeepers and 5 genuine hitters who can score at 200 strike rate.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corridor of Uncertainty View Post
    This is the no 1 reason. Pakistan lose key moments in key games. All to do with mental strength.

    I think the team leaders/coach give up mentally to big opponents before entering the pitch - if they have half a chance.

    if they are given no chance, they play freely.
    Yes.
    But its also a culture of denial:
    Ask any Pakistani player why they lose to india in world cups and they will hem and haw but not come out say we got pressured.
    Nearly every cricket team in the world talks openly about (a) failing to make right decisions under pressure and (b) how to improve on it. Mushfiqur discussed it openly a few days earlier about his own team

    But in Pakistan this is considered a taboo. Our ex-great players have phenomenal records but they also have very high profile failures or just poor records against better teams. These guys are not going to sully their legacy by discussing that openly.

    It has to come from the captain and coach: admit to pressure, admit to it scrambling your mind, admit to a record of panic and then make a plan to get over it.

    Denial will only lead to generalities like "we will play aggressive positive cricket" and then excuses after the loss.

    I think Sarfaraz did a good job of highlighting that we loft three soft wickets vs Australia. Need more honesty like this.

  64. #64
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    Spot on :- When I started to watch Pakistan matches, their were mushtaq Ahmed, the great saqlain, latestly ajmal, why Pakistan team is management is playing with English countries mindset, with fast bowlers alone they can't win they need genuine spinners, this is the biggest of all the flaws I think in Pakistan cricket team.

  65. #65
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    For me there are four issues:

    1) Lack of leadership especially under pressure. We keep hearing about the importance of retaining "experienced seniors" to guide the youngsters, yet Sarfraz is the first to lose his head when things go against us ! The anxiety from the captain then transmits throughout the team, so no wonder we've lost so many close matches lately. Hafeez and Malik don't seem to step in either.

    I remember three tights Tests Pakistan won - vs England in Dubai in 2015, vs West Indies in Dubai in 2016, and vs West Indies in Dominica in 2017. Misbah may not be everyone's cup of tea but in those matches he kept his composure and thus the team held its nerve. He had an excellent lieutenant in Younis. Every bowler bowls a bad ball, but they can recover from it if you captain encourages you instead of slumping his shoulders like Sarfraz. Also tactically, Sarfraz is exposed the longer the format is. His ADD style of captaincy suits T20s, but not the chess match nature of Tests and ODIs.

    2) Lack of tactical intelligence. I cannot get over how Shaheen Afridi, Hasan Ali and Wahab Riaz banged it in short on a damp pitch in England in a 10.30 AM start allowing Warner and Finch to make a blazing start. At one stage in the Australian innings, only 8% of our balls would've hit the stumps ! That smacks of a lack of cricketing intelligence.

    Don't give me the "inexperience" excuse. Even a school team knows on a damp wicket, your new ball bowlers need to hit top of off stump. Shaheen Afridi, Wahab Riaz and Hasan Ali however have played cricket at U19, domestic, PSL and international level. Only Amir bowled the right length.

    Our new ball bowling generally has been a shambles for ages. Our seamers hardly swing the new ball. That comes down to excessive cricket in UAE meaning an over-reliance on reverse swing, poor technical coaching at junior level, and substandard pitches/balls where pacers can let conditions do the work for them.

    3) Lack of a gun spinner. This is non-negotiable in today's one day cricket, and for an Asian team. It's unacceptable how we've failed to develop a specialist spinner in the last few years. Shadab Khan has been touted as a saviour but he's a supposed all-rounder, and not a very good one. His average against top ODI teams is around 40, yet we're relying on a kid still learning his craft to win the World Cup for us. Bonkers.

    Alternatively we've Imad Wasim - the spinner that hardly spins the ball, Shoaib Malik who's been ineffective as a bowler since 2004, and Mohammed Hafeez who's on his way out. Meanwhile, India have been winning series in Australia, South Africa and New Zealand with Yadav and Chahal.

    4) Lack of quality seam bowling ARs. This has hurt us badly. Since the retirement of Abdul Razzaq, we've failed to find a 3rd seamer who can bat at 7 and balance the team. That would allow us to play three seamers and two proper spinners. We tried Faheem Ashraf, a rubbish investment, whilst alternatives like Amir Yamin and Hussain Talat aren't convincing. Yet England are producing all-rounders by the bucketload. This stems from our grassroots coaching - perhaps we encourage kids to specialise too early rather than ensuring they're capable of reaching a good standard in all departments.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeetu View Post
    Clearly the bowlers are under performing big time.
    Those bowling stats are appalling, especially from our spinners. Will say it again - Shadab Khan is not a matchwinning spinner and it's foolhardy to rely on him so heavily.

    Also shocking is Hasan Ali's decline. He must go back to domestic cricket and fix his attitude and form. He is playing on reputation right now.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    For me there are four issues:

    1) Lack of leadership especially under pressure. We keep hearing about the importance of retaining "experienced seniors" to guide the youngsters, yet Sarfraz is the first to lose his head when things go against us ! The anxiety from the captain then transmits throughout the team, so no wonder we've lost so many close matches lately. Hafeez and Malik don't seem to step in either.

    I remember three tights Tests Pakistan won - vs England in Dubai in 2015, vs West Indies in Dubai in 2016, and vs West Indies in Dominica in 2017. Misbah may not be everyone's cup of tea but in those matches he kept his composure and thus the team held its nerve. He had an excellent lieutenant in Younis. Every bowler bowls a bad ball, but they can recover from it if you captain encourages you instead of slumping his shoulders like Sarfraz. Also tactically, Sarfraz is exposed the longer the format is. His ADD style of captaincy suits T20s, but not the chess match nature of Tests and ODIs.

    2) Lack of tactical intelligence. I cannot get over how Shaheen Afridi, Hasan Ali and Wahab Riaz banged it in short on a damp pitch in England in a 10.30 AM start allowing Warner and Finch to make a blazing start. At one stage in the Australian innings, only 8% of our balls would've hit the stumps ! That smacks of a lack of cricketing intelligence.

    Don't give me the "inexperience" excuse. Even a school team knows on a damp wicket, your new ball bowlers need to hit top of off stump. Shaheen Afridi, Wahab Riaz and Hasan Ali however have played cricket at U19, domestic, PSL and international level. Only Amir bowled the right length.

    Our new ball bowling generally has been a shambles for ages. Our seamers hardly swing the new ball. That comes down to excessive cricket in UAE meaning an over-reliance on reverse swing, poor technical coaching at junior level, and substandard pitches/balls where pacers can let conditions do the work for them.

    3) Lack of a gun spinner. This is non-negotiable in today's one day cricket, and for an Asian team. It's unacceptable how we've failed to develop a specialist spinner in the last few years. Shadab Khan has been touted as a saviour but he's a supposed all-rounder, and not a very good one. His average against top ODI teams is around 40, yet we're relying on a kid still learning his craft to win the World Cup for us. Bonkers.

    Alternatively we've Imad Wasim - the spinner that hardly spins the ball, Shoaib Malik who's been ineffective as a bowler since 2004, and Mohammed Hafeez who's on his way out. Meanwhile, India have been winning series in Australia, South Africa and New Zealand with Yadav and Chahal.

    4) Lack of quality seam bowling ARs. This has hurt us badly. Since the retirement of Abdul Razzaq, we've failed to find a 3rd seamer who can bat at 7 and balance the team. That would allow us to play three seamers and two proper spinners. We tried Faheem Ashraf, a rubbish investment, whilst alternatives like Amir Yamin and Hussain Talat aren't convincing. Yet England are producing all-rounders by the bucketload. This stems from our grassroots coaching - perhaps we encourage kids to specialise too early rather than ensuring they're capable of reaching a good standard in all departments.
    We lost against Australia because of our batting. No team would fail that run chase like we did. Simple as that


    Hard to get a handle on this double edged sword

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by aliasad1998 View Post
    We lost against Australia because of our batting. No team would fail that run chase like we did. Simple as that
    No it's not simple as that. We should not have been chasing 308 in the first place. If the likes of Trent Boult and Jasprit Bumrah were bowling in those conditions they would've knocked Australia over for 200.

    Amir excepting, that was the one of the worst spells of new ball bowling from Pakistan I've seen especially when early morning conditions providing some assistance for seamers.

    Only at the end did we get it right, but the damage had been done.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by aliasad1998 View Post
    We lost against Australia because of our batting. No team would fail that run chase like we did. Simple as that
    ALl big chases end like that. India also started well in wc 2015 semi final chasing 327 against aussies. Deep down we knew they will mess up at some point.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeetu View Post
    My take based on Pakistan's ODI matches played in 2019.

    Team Mat Won Lost NR W/L Ave RPO HS LS
    Pakistan 18 3 14 1 0.214 35.7 5.81 361 105
    RPO is pretty good. It means team made average of 290 runs per match.

    Inning break up of those matches.
    Score Overs RPO Target Inns Result Opposition Start Date
    361/7 50 7.22 374 2 lost v England 11-May-19
    358/9 50 7.16 1 lost v England 14-May-19
    348/8 50 6.96 1 won v England 3-Jun-19
    340/7 50 6.8 1 lost v England 17-May-19
    317/6 50 6.34 1 lost v South Africa 25-Jan-19
    307/7 50 6.14 328 2 lost v Australia 31-Mar-19
    297 46.5 6.34 352 2 lost v England 19-May-19
    284/7 50 5.68 1 lost v Australia 24-Mar-19
    280/5 50 5.6 1 lost v Australia 22-Mar-19
    271/8 50 5.42 278 2 lost v Australia 29-Mar-19
    267/5 49.1 5.43 267 2 won v South Africa 19-Jan-19
    266 45.4 5.82 308 2 lost v Australia 12-Jun-19
    240/8 50 4.8 1 lost v South Africa 30-Jan-19
    203 45.5 4.42 1 lost v South Africa 22-Jan-19
    186 44.4 4.16 267 2 lost v Australia 27-Mar-19
    168/2 31.3 5.33 165 2 won v South Africa 27-Jan-19
    105 21.4 4.84 1 lost v West Indies 31-May-19
    80/2 19 4.21 1 n/r v England 8-May-19
    I have highlighted matches where Pakistan made 250+ runs and still lost.

    Clearly the bowlers are under performing big time.
    Player Mat Inns Runs Wkts Ave Econ SR 4W
    Mohammad Amir 8 7 284 12 23.66 4.98 28.5 0
    Usman Shinwari 6 6 266 10 26.6 5.21 30.6 2
    Shaheen Shah Afridi 9 8 454 13 34.92 6.48 32.3 1
    Shoaib Malik 12 5 79 2 39.5 5.64 42 0
    Wahab Riaz 3 3 166 4 41.5 7.66 32.5 0
    Shadab Khan 7 6 316 7 45.14 5.74 47.1 0
    Junaid Khan 5 5 320 6 53.33 6.95 46 0
    Mohammad Hasnain 5 5 303 5 60.6 7.39 49.2 0
    Imad Wasim 15 13 632 10 63.2 5.44 69.6 0
    Yasir Shah 6 6 343 5 68.6 6.01 68.4 0
    Hasan Ali 11 10 541 6 90.16 6.32 85.5 0
    Haris Sohail 9 6 110 1 110 5.78 114 0
    Mohammad Hafeez 10 7 241 2 120.5 6.69 108 0
    Mohammad Abbas 3 3 153 1 153 5.66 162 0
    Faheem Ashraf 7 6 335 2 167.5 6.1 164.5 0
    Pretty much every bowler is having terrible time.
    Only Amir has turned things around. Usman Shinwari has second best stats but he is not even in WC squad. The less said about the rest , the better.
    Good work.
    Pakistan bowling has been pathetic in recent times. Batting better than previous eleven we had

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by aliasad1998 View Post
    We lost against Australia because of our batting. No team would fail that run chase like we did. Simple as that
    Blaming batting is easy. But that wasn't pitch and conditions where you concede 300+ runs. With out of form david warner who looked edgy all in his inning. Dropping catches, rubbish bowling in first 30 overs,
    And some mediocre captaincy.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    For me there are four issues:

    1) Lack of leadership especially under pressure. We keep hearing about the importance of retaining "experienced seniors" to guide the youngsters, yet Sarfraz is the first to lose his head when things go against us ! The anxiety from the captain then transmits throughout the team, so no wonder we've lost so many close matches lately. Hafeez and Malik don't seem to step in either.

    I remember three tights Tests Pakistan won - vs England in Dubai in 2015, vs West Indies in Dubai in 2016, and vs West Indies in Dominica in 2017. Misbah may not be everyone's cup of tea but in those matches he kept his composure and thus the team held its nerve. He had an excellent lieutenant in Younis. Every bowler bowls a bad ball, but they can recover from it if you captain encourages you instead of slumping his shoulders like Sarfraz. Also tactically, Sarfraz is exposed the longer the format is. His ADD style of captaincy suits T20s, but not the chess match nature of Tests and ODIs.

    2) Lack of tactical intelligence. I cannot get over how Shaheen Afridi, Hasan Ali and Wahab Riaz banged it in short on a damp pitch in England in a 10.30 AM start allowing Warner and Finch to make a blazing start. At one stage in the Australian innings, only 8% of our balls would've hit the stumps ! That smacks of a lack of cricketing intelligence.

    Don't give me the "inexperience" excuse. Even a school team knows on a damp wicket, your new ball bowlers need to hit top of off stump. Shaheen Afridi, Wahab Riaz and Hasan Ali however have played cricket at U19, domestic, PSL and international level. Only Amir bowled the right length.

    Our new ball bowling generally has been a shambles for ages. Our seamers hardly swing the new ball. That comes down to excessive cricket in UAE meaning an over-reliance on reverse swing, poor technical coaching at junior level, and substandard pitches/balls where pacers can let conditions do the work for them.

    3) Lack of a gun spinner. This is non-negotiable in today's one day cricket, and for an Asian team. It's unacceptable how we've failed to develop a specialist spinner in the last few years. Shadab Khan has been touted as a saviour but he's a supposed all-rounder, and not a very good one. His average against top ODI teams is around 40, yet we're relying on a kid still learning his craft to win the World Cup for us. Bonkers.

    Alternatively we've Imad Wasim - the spinner that hardly spins the ball, Shoaib Malik who's been ineffective as a bowler since 2004, and Mohammed Hafeez who's on his way out. Meanwhile, India have been winning series in Australia, South Africa and New Zealand with Yadav and Chahal.

    4) Lack of quality seam bowling ARs. This has hurt us badly. Since the retirement of Abdul Razzaq, we've failed to find a 3rd seamer who can bat at 7 and balance the team. That would allow us to play three seamers and two proper spinners. We tried Faheem Ashraf, a rubbish investment, whilst alternatives like Amir Yamin and Hussain Talat aren't convincing. Yet England are producing all-rounders by the bucketload. This stems from our grassroots coaching - perhaps we encourage kids to specialise too early rather than ensuring they're capable of reaching a good standard in all departments.
    Quality post.

    POTW for me.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    No it's not simple as that. We should not have been chasing 308 in the first place. If the likes of Trent Boult and Jasprit Bumrah were bowling in those conditions they would've knocked Australia over for 200.

    Amir excepting, that was the one of the worst spells of new ball bowling from Pakistan I've seen especially when early morning conditions providing some assistance for seamers.

    Only at the end did we get it right, but the damage had been done.
    Wahab also bowled well, but bowlers need help from fielders. Indian fielders take chances their bowlers create as well save the runs in the field.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunny_majoka View Post
    Blaming batting is easy. But that wasn't pitch and conditions where you concede 300+ runs. With out of form david warner who looked edgy all in his inning. Dropping catches, rubbish bowling in first 30 overs,
    And some mediocre captaincy.
    Not saying we weren’t bad in other departments but we should have chased it if you look at the dismissals


    Hard to get a handle on this double edged sword

  75. #75
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    Some really impressive posts and analysis on this thread.

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    My two cents.

    Cricket is either hibernating or fading in Pakistan. Even at grass root level, the intense passion to play for international team is not there like it used to be in 80s/90s. If 80/100 teens used to attempt cracking into domestic previously, its 30/100 now. Lack of people means lesser quality players at domestic level, resulting in Wahabs and Hasnain appearing the best among limited lot. Pakistan not having record breaking stars is not helping the cause.
    I see more passionate kids with football than cricket these days. All we need is an Imran Khan of FIFA and we will be kicking a football storm instead.

    This is why Wasim Khan is important for Pakistan Cricket right now. He got vision to improve cricket circulation in the country, something which may take years but can bring back the intensity. If Indian bunch can do it, so can we. Sure, there will be tons of opposition for him, and his tackling of such corruption is going to define the future of Pakistan Cricket.

  77. #77
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    When i watch the Indian Cricketers and compare them to Pakistani Cricketers in general 12 years on continous exposure in the IPL eating, training, playing, sharing a dressing room with the best players in the world every year for 2 months is bound to give you a massive competitive advantage over the rest of the world.

    Our players just cannot put it all together consistently in one day, either the batting falters at the end or the bowlers end up failing at the end or the batsmen and bowlers falter at the very beginning. Cricket is now a scientific game as well and your natural talent, abilities will only take you so far as the likes of Shadab, Hassan Ali, Shaheen, Fakhar Zaman, Imad Wasim and co are all finding out now, after the honeymoon period it will all be about the hard work you put in training, in the nets and towards constantly trying to figure out ways to take your game to the next level.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by shockbound View Post
    My two cents.

    Cricket is either hibernating or fading in Pakistan. Even at grass root level, the intense passion to play for international team is not there like it used to be in 80s/90s. If 80/100 teens used to attempt cracking into domestic previously, its 30/100 now. Lack of people means lesser quality players at domestic level, resulting in Wahabs and Hasnain appearing the best among limited lot. Pakistan not having record breaking stars is not helping the cause.
    I see more passionate kids with football than cricket these days. All we need is an Imran Khan of FIFA and we will be kicking a football storm instead.

    This is why Wasim Khan is important for Pakistan Cricket right now. He got vision to improve cricket circulation in the country, something which may take years but can bring back the intensity. If Indian bunch can do it, so can we. Sure, there will be tons of opposition for him, and his tackling of such corruption is going to define the future of Pakistan Cricket.
    Cricket is still the most popular sport in Pakistan. The problem is the whole concept of just turning up to play and relying on your natural gifts is out dated now. The rest of the world has taken scientific studying of the opposition to another level, your initial talent and abilities will only take you so far, you have to constantly find ways to improve your abilities, skills or you will not survive for long. I have seen too many Pakistani players regress badly.

    The only player i have so far seen and heard who has an outstanding work ethic and ability is Babar Azam but even he has a lot of improving to do i.e. slow strike rates and not finishing games.

    The other player i have seen who doesn't have incredible ability but apparently has an outstanding work ethic is Hafeez

    The vast majority of our players are either players who have some ability but zero work ethic and players with not much ability and zero work ethic.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARK Rafay View Post
    Someone said in a FB comment that if there was Dhoni in place of Sarfraz there when Wahab got out. he would've won it for Pakistan.

    It was more to do with mental toughness than skill and ability there
    In a recent concluded series of Pak vs Eng - in 2nd ODI we needed 30 odd of 18 balls and the captain was batting during that period with Imad and I had absolutely no hope that Pak will chase it down. And in the end we lost by 12 runs. Any other captain in world cricket would have done the job by hitting 2 sixes max. Sarfaraz should either open or bat at 4. He is not made to bat at death.

    Pak cricket and the nation itself needs a major revamp in thinking and in professionalism.

  80. #80
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    Jeez!
    We're talking about cricket here...solutions to fix cricket NOT the psyche of the Pakistani nation as a whole.
    Lets stick to cricketing reasons please as some people have rightly pointed at like @Itachi.
    No need to ridicule or be little a whole nation cos we can't seem to win a few Odis.

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