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  1. #1
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    Pakistan in 1999 vs India in 2019? Which was a bigger loss?

    Two teams at their peaks having topped the group stages and demolished almost every opposition.

    Pakistan had the likes of Wasim, Shoaib , Anwer, Saqlain and.were extremely dependant on their opening and Inzi.Waqar did not play in this WC that much so no use putting his name in.Wasim bowled beautifully and Anwer was what Rohit was to India in 2019, a run machine and Pakistan batted poorly in most matches he got out early.

    Same is the case with India in 2019 with the likes of Kohli, Rohit, Dhawan arguably India's best top order in history then in bowling had the likes of Bumrah who is currently the number 1 ranked in the world.In fact both No.1 ranked bowler and batsman are Indian.However like Pakistan in 1999 their MO was exposed early in the KO stages and failed to impress.


    Both teams suffered immensely when their top three failed in the KO stages and lost to teams they were expected to win against.


    Which one was a bigger loss?

    I reckon Pakistan in 1999 but looking at that AUS side and judging the recent emotions of the Indian fans yesterday I feel India in 2019 is pretty close too.
    Last edited by Bleedgreen4ever; 11th July 2019 at 22:50.

  2. #2
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    Pakistan lost to an ATG side. India didn't, so less excuses for us.

    Pakistan were humiliated India weren't.

  3. #3
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    India.

    NZ lost steam towards the end whereas Australia were on a roll.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by pillionrider View Post
    Pakista9n lost to an ATG side. India didn't, so less excuses for us.

    Pakistan were humiliated India weren't.
    Being 5/3 down to a side who had lost to Eng by 100+ runs and lost to Aus by 80+ runs and having your two ATG players get out on 1 is humiliation.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by pillionrider View Post
    Pakistan lost to an ATG side. India didn't, so less excuses for us.

    Pakistan were humiliated India weren't.
    92/6 is humiliation tbh
    5/3 is the worst start in WC KO I reckon at least for the last 20 years

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bleedgreen4ever View Post
    92/6 is humiliation tbh
    5/3 is the worst start in WC KO I reckon at least for the last 20 years
    End score matters. India lost by 18 runs.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by PakFan764 View Post
    Being 5/3 down to a side who had lost to Eng by 100+ runs and lost to Aus by 80+ runs and having your two ATG players get out on 1 is humiliation.
    no that is just probability, helpful weather factors and some very good bowling.

    there were few demons in the pitch on which pakistan surrendered to australia.

  8. #8
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    Pak team had more superstars. There was essentially no weak link. Ind had DK and Pant.

    Pak played against Ponting, Gilchrist, Warne, McGrath. Ind against Grandhomme etc.

    Pak lost in the final to the mighty Aus the GOAT ODI team. Ind lost to barely there NZ.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    End score matters. India lost by 18 runs.
    That's more heart breaking isn't it?

    Pakistan were never in the game against the ATG AUS side

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obaidd View Post
    Pak team had more superstars. There was essentially no weak link. Ind had DK and Pant.

    Pak played against Ponting, Gilchrist, Warne, McGrath. Ind against Grandhomme etc.

    Pak lost in the final to the mighty Aus the GOAT ODI team. Ind lost to barely there NZ.
    Pakistan had a very weak MO that got exposed against BD, IND and SA in the group stages.

    Same is the case with India in 2019

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bleedgreen4ever View Post
    That's more heart breaking isn't it?

    Pakistan were never in the game against the ATG AUS side
    Only Jadeja and Dhoni fought in terms of batting which made the loss look closer than it was. Once you are 90/6, there is no coming back.


    2 possibilities exist: Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are terrifying.

  12. #12
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    1999 WC Pakistan reached the finals and Indian in 2019 didn't even make the finals. Pakistan's loss was bigger as on paper Pakistan had a better team. Abdul Razzaq >> Tom Moody


    Self belief and hard work will always earn you success - Kohli
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  13. #13
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    Pakistan lost was bigger they had the team to win it wasn't even the fact that they lost its how the lost was even more sad

    India is a good team but I felt this World Cup they were overrated and I knew they weren't going to win the whole thing. India played well but most teams played with fear when they played India and they showed to much respect to the bowlers. New Zealand didn't make a big score but when they took the game on the felt their bowling can get the job done

    Once New Zealand took the field they played to their strengths and won the game

    Indias issue was too many passengers in the team and some bad team selection as well.

    That being said India will come back stronger in 2023 and hopefully for their case they pick the right players and team combonations

  14. #14
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    At least India competed in 2019 semi. Pakistan were out of final once the Australia innings started .

    Indias lost was probably bigger as they were expected to beat New Zealand .

  15. #15
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    1999 loss..that was a great insult, disappointment and embarrassment to Pakistan cricket fans. It seemed they sold the match. After that match I never took Pakistan cricket serious again because there is always that suspicion of something underhand is in the cards.

  16. #16
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    Pakistan.

    We won against Aussies in the group stages and later we won a series against the same team in their home.

    The 99 world cup was ours. That Pakistani team should have beaten the Aussies that day and lifted the cup

    That said, Aussies of that era are the best ever ODI team. Yeh sab Roy shoy, Kohli sholi, Boomra shoomra, Starc warc faaaltu hain

  17. #17
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    Lol people are acting as if the 99 pak were favourites. Lol.
    Aus were huge favs for final.
    Pakistan lost 4 games at the 99 world cup.
    "Unbeatable" lol. It was just a case of pak having lots of superstars at once but in general pakistan struggle to pull of wins under pressure, they lack that x factor.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhenSultansBowled View Post
    Pakistan.

    We won against Aussies in the group stages and later we won a series against the same team in their home.

    The 99 world cup was ours. That Pakistani team should have beaten the Aussies that day and lifted the cup

    That said, Aussies of that era are the best ever ODI team. Yeh sab Roy shoy, Kohli sholi, Boomra shoomra, Starc warc faaaltu hain
    winning series doesnt mean anything. teams try to find the right combination. the better team won that day. 99 team of australia wasn't that great. they were lucky to beat s.africa. 2003 was the GOAT team.

  19. #19
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    Pakistan in 99WC demolished every opposition? News to me. We had an average Super 6 stage and scraped through based on our performance in the Group stages (carried forward points).

    India was dominant in the Group stages in this WC, but their weakness' got horribly exposed as usual in a KO game. It's not even surprising anymore tbh.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usergame View Post
    Lol people are acting as if the 99 pak were favourites. Lol.
    Aus were huge favs for final.
    Pakistan lost 4 games at the 99 world cup.
    "Unbeatable" lol. It was just a case of pak having lots of superstars at once but in general pakistan struggle to pull of wins under pressure, they lack that x factor.
    No way were they huge favourites they had already list to us in the group stages


  21. #21
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    I think the Pakistani loss was greater as they will not get many more chances to win a WC. After 1999 Pakistan hasn't reached the finals or been a serious contender for the championship.

    India on the other hands are probably already favorites for 2023, and have consistently reached the SF or better this decade. So while India's loss hurts, the team and Indian hopes will recover.
    Last edited by Napa; 12th July 2019 at 08:46.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by leatherface58 View Post
    Only Jadeja and Dhoni fought in terms of batting which made the loss look closer than it was. Once you are 90/6, there is no coming back.
    42 runs left to get from 24 balls with 4 wickets in hand and 2 set batsmen. It didn't seem impossible.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usman Chadda View Post
    Pakistan in 99WC demolished every opposition? News to me. We had an average Super 6 stage and scraped through based on our performance in the Group stages (carried forward points).

    India was dominant in the Group stages in this WC, but their weakness' got horribly exposed as usual in a KO game. It's not even surprising anymore tbh.
    Pakistan in 1999 were the strongest team and every time they lost we could tell something shady was going on. Bangladesh Match was not the only shady match I wouldn’t be surprised if the India match was

    Paksitani players were partying before the final and some were in night clubs it was all over the media. Australian 1999 team is no where near 2003 team. Tom Moody, Reifel, Fleming were nothing in front of Razzaq, Akhtar and Wasim. Gilly has a horrible tournament and only scored a fifty in the final. It was Waugh brothers, Bevan, McGrath & Warne.

    2003 Australian team oh my word

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    42 runs left to get from 24 balls with 4 wickets in hand and 2 set batsmen. It didn't seem impossible.
    I thought India was going to win it, kohli looked confident during that time in the dressing room. I remember Dhoni leaving a ball at that stage, just literally let the ball go I think he added extra pressure on Jadeja

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    42 runs left to get from 24 balls with 4 wickets in hand and 2 set batsmen. It didn't seem impossible.
    The problem now is india's tail is useless. We r missing the contributions we used to get from bowlers like harbhajan, kumble, srinath, zaheer etc.
    Its very important in crunch games.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    42 runs left to get from 24 balls with 4 wickets in hand and 2 set batsmen. It didn't seem impossible.
    India was never in it after 97/6. Jadeja was always going to end up playing a false shot.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usman Chadda View Post
    India was never in it after 97/6. Jadeja was always going to end up playing a false shot.
    240 was a very low total one good partnership can make things very interesting.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    I think the Pakistani loss was greater as they will not get many more chances to win a WC. After 1999 Pakistan hasn't reached the finals or been a serious contender for the championship.

    India on the other hands are probably already favorites for 2023, and have consistently reached the SF or better this decade. So while India's loss hurts, the team and Indian hopes will recover.
    WTH? So somehow you concluded Pakistan wont win another WC? They definitely will in a 10 team WC most teams will eventually win unless they stop playing.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashraful_Rox View Post
    Pakistan in 1999 were the strongest team and every time they lost we could tell something shady was going on. Bangladesh Match was not the only shady match I wouldn’t be surprised if the India match was

    Paksitani players were partying before the final and some were in night clubs it was all over the media. Australian 1999 team is no where near 2003 team. Tom Moody, Reifel, Fleming were nothing in front of Razzaq, Akhtar and Wasim. Gilly has a horrible tournament and only scored a fifty in the final. It was Waugh brothers, Bevan, McGrath & Warne.

    2003 Australian team oh my word
    Pakistan lost 4 games at the world cup.
    If you are saying they fixed matches then they dont deserve to be spoken of.
    If you are saying they were inconsistent- just that.
    But Australia were clearly a better team.
    Pakistan didnt have big game mentalilty.
    Australia were hot favs for final but pskistan surrendered into a no contest anyway.

    The real final was the Aus vs Sa semi. Whoever won was always winning the final

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakhs View Post
    WTH? So somehow you concluded Pakistan wont win another WC? They definitely will in a 10 team WC most teams will eventually win unless they stop playing.
    I did not say they will not win another WC. I said "they will not get many more chances to win a WC", which means a few chances.

    Pakistan needs to fix its domestic cricket structure and then it will improve its chances. The IPL has increased the pool of Indian players who can make a living playing the game and therefore there is a larger pool to select the team from. The Western countries already had that. Pakistan needs to catch up.

  31. #31
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    India in 2019. Not because we had the perfect team, but all other top teams were vulnerable.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluevision View Post
    India in 2019. Not because we had the perfect team, but all other top teams were vulnerable.
    You have to say though that the batting line of India has also turned out to be rather vulnerable bar top 2/3 batsmen who always end up the highest scorers.

    Jadeja played out of his skin to make a game out of it in the semi, otherwise it may have been a big margin defeat. Enough said of Dhoni who relies on his partners to take all the risks. Rahul is India’s Hafeez, highly unreliable.
    Last edited by gazza619; 13th July 2019 at 03:18.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gazza619 View Post
    You have to say though that the batting line of India has also turned out to be rather vulnerable bar top 2/3 batsmen who always end up the highest scorers.

    Jadeja played out of his skin to make a game out of it in the semi, otherwise it may have been a big margin defeat. Enough said of Dhoni who relies on his partners to take all the risks. Rahul is India’s Hafeez, highly unreliable.
    That's what I meant. Indian WC team was light-years away from being perfect, but no other team looked like a world beater either.
    The winner would be like one eyed king in the land of the blind.
    Compare this with WC99 favorites.

  34. #34
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    Pakistan team of 99 was quality so that’s a bigger loss

  35. #35
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    In 1999 I would say SA loss to Australia was more heartbreak than any of the two matches you mentioned.

    Between the 2 matches you mentioned for me obviously India losing feels bad. For Pakistanis 99 would be worse. Not sure how one judges your thread.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    42 runs left to get from 24 balls with 4 wickets in hand and 2 set batsmen. It didn't seem impossible.
    Not when 1 set batsman is dhoni and everybody knows Jadeja would succumb as soon as quality bowler comes

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bleedgreen4ever View Post
    240 was a very low total one good partnership can make things very interesting.
    Not with that lower-order/tail. They are hopeless once they collapse. Jadeja played a freak innings, but I had no doubt NZ were winning the game.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usman Chadda View Post
    Not with that lower-order/tail. They are hopeless once they collapse. Jadeja played a freak innings, but I had no doubt NZ were winning the game.
    Jadeja made hay on santner and neesham until main bowlers came back

  39. #39
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    That was final. This is semi. India could still have lost the final.

  40. #40
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    A massive 'corruption' cloud over 1999 as was the case with the Bangalore game of 1996.
    With 'shady' behaviour from characters like Azuraddin & Akram, we'll never really know to what extent these matches were fixed.
    The Qayyum report that highlighted various goings on, was not taken seriously by the wider Cricket authorities until the shameful Spot fixing Antics of 2010.


    Pakistan Cricket: Exciting, Entertaining, Unpredictable, Dangerous and Unique.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    I did not say they will not win another WC. I said "they will not get many more chances to win a WC", which means a few chances.

    Pakistan needs to fix its domestic cricket structure and then it will improve its chances. The IPL has increased the pool of Indian players who can make a living playing the game and therefore there is a larger pool to select the team from. The Western countries already had that. Pakistan needs to catch up.
    They will eventually catch up. because there are only 10 teams all teams will eventually copy each other to stay relevant it just means a bit of frustration and delay in winning if you playing catch up thats all. This year England will win because they have shown if you can flood your teams with batsmen more often then not this formula will work. Teams will copy. India thought two wrist spinners is they way to go but they were proven wrong. If the WC is in India then figure spinners will be more useful as has been proven in the past.

  42. #42
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    Pakistan in 1999 was bigger loss because that Pakistani team had many capable superstars.

    This Indian team is all about Rohit, Kohli, Bumrah, and Shami.


    Bangladeshi Fan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakhs View Post
    They will eventually catch up. because there are only 10 teams all teams will eventually copy each other to stay relevant it just means a bit of frustration and delay in winning if you playing catch up thats all.
    The success of a sports league also depends upon how the economy is doing. Success is not guaranteed, countries like SA and WI are on their way down.

    This year England will win because they have shown if you can flood your teams with batsmen more often then not this formula will work. Teams will copy.
    I agree that the English batting is special, but in the final their bowlers won them the game after Australia won the toss.

    India thought two wrist spinners is they way to go but they were proven wrong. If the WC is in India then figure spinners will be more useful as has been proven in the past.
    Indian spinners have a short shelf life, especially in ODIs once batsmen figure them out. India should not have played them in bilaterals but introduced them directly into the WC

  44. #44
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    99 was a bigger loss, purely because it was a final where the Pakistan side had multiple superstars. Also, India-NZ was close, nobody really expected Pakistan to get beat so easily.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    Indian spinners have a short shelf life, especially in ODIs once batsmen figure them out. India should not have played them in bilaterals but introduced them directly into the WC
    Not just Indian spinner. It is true for all spinners.

    Batsmen will eventually figure out all spinners most likely.


    Bangladeshi Fan

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    The success of a sports league also depends upon how the economy is doing. Success is not guaranteed, countries like SA and WI are on their way down.



    I agree that the English batting is special, but in the final their bowlers won them the game after Australia won the toss.



    Indian spinners have a short shelf life, especially in ODIs once batsmen figure them out. India should not have played them in bilaterals but introduced them directly into the WC
    League yes but country sports no, case in point Brazil and Portugal. Because you don't have to pay your own players a lot if you don't have it they don't have any choice but to play for you otherwise they wont even get whatever is offered. I don't believe SA cricket is on their way down for the reason you mentioned its going down because of the quota rule and white population choosing kolpak deals instead.

    Indian spinners don't have a small shelf like kuldeep will have a good long career but wickets didnt suit his bowling specially towards the end matches for India. Chahal in my opinion is a T20 bowler and nothing special in ODIs on anything other than turning wickets. He did well in SA but for some reason those wickets were turning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sweep_shot View Post
    Not just Indian spinner. It is true for all spinners.

    Batsmen will eventually figure out all spinners most likely.
    I remember Sivaramakrishnan and Hirwani. Devastating in their first few games, and then gone!

    Given the number of players India is producing, I envisage that in a future 5 Test series India will play 10 different mystery leg-spinners, 2 new ones for every game
    Last edited by Napa; 14th July 2019 at 05:11.

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    Pakistan in 99 was. That Pakistan team was an amazing side with no real weakness, only weakness they had was money...


    "You want Philly, Philly ? " Nicholas Edward Foles

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    India went down fighting. Pakistan got completely demolished and humiliated.


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